4.6 DOHC VS 5.0 Coyote - Is the 4.6 DOHC Still Relevant? How Much Better are Coyotes? Coyote Swap?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2022
- 4.6 DOHC VS 5.0 Coyote. Stock for stock 4.6 DOHC Cobra VS Coyote. Max effort 4.6 DOHC vs Max effort Coyote. Do you need to Coyote swap to make power or does the 4.6 DOHC engine have the same amount of potential?
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#mustang #mustanggt #dohc #coyote #coyoteswap - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
John Mihovetz proved that the 4.6 DOHC is the real deal, guy went 5.80s at 250+ in the 1/4.
Yes he did
Just wanted to point out that when comparing builds with equal horsepower the Coyote always seems to be lacking on torque and it's usually a lot. For instance, take a Whipple'd Cobra and Coyote that put down around 650 hp, the Cobra will usually have torque numbers pretty close to the HP numbers or just shy of it.. probably around 600-620 ft lbs. The coyote would show something like 540-560 torque. They just don't make the torque a boosted 4.6 does and it's what you feel when you're cruising around or when you stomp on the loud pedal.
This is also true with the 5.4/5.8 gt500 motors they were basically a big 4.6 they're torque monsters. The coyote makes it power really high rpm and I think they have a shorter stroke I'm not 100% but that is why they make less torque. If you only revved it as far as the cobra motor it would be making less power that aligns closer to the torque.
It’s nothing really inherent to the actual engines themselves - for example pulley a Whipple to achieve max rotor speed of 18,000 rpm (or whatever) @ 8000-8500 rpm and you end up with a less aggressive supercharger pulley ratio with less peak cylinder pressure. That means less torque.
The 5.4/5.8 GT500s are crankshaft limited to about 7000-7200 rpm (b/c they aren’t center counter weighted like 4.6 Cobra and Coyotes are) and the 4.6’s were PCM/ignition limited to about 7000 so in these apps the blower is pullied much harder to achieve XXX amount of HP within that 7000 rpm cap.
When you have another 1000-1500 rpm to work like the Coyote you end up with less aggressively pullied blowers that are relying on RPM to make HP.
It just results in Coyotes making less torque (cylinder pressure, VE, boost) for a certain amount of HP thanks to the higher RPM working window.
Take a built 4.6 4V with Holley Dominator and pulley that same Whipple to achieve max supercharger rotor speed @ 8500 and the HP/Torque relationship will look just like a Coyote.
Take a a Coyote and pulley a Whipple to max out the rotor speed at 7000 rpm and the HP/TQ relationship will look like more we typically see with Terminators.
That’s really all there is to it
@@midnight347 the Coyote stroke is longer than the 4.6 but shorter than the 5.4.
@@BC08 yes you are correct. I like seeing other Ford guys who actually know wtf they're talking about other than "the coyote is superior them old mod motors suck blah blah" someone who actually has technical information to share instead of just repeating the same bs others say like blind sheep.
@@BC08 great explanation the rpm has most to do with it. If you revved it to 6500 like a gt500 it would make lower hp thus making it not appear to have low torque compared to hp. I'm gonna build the bottom end of my 07 gt500 at some point and do some nsr cams, little more compression and I wanna try to spin it to like 7k the extra rpm and compression with cams should make a big difference and omg they sound sexy chopping.
They are both great engines but I love that 4v sound.
I completely agree Chuck. Thank you for watching!
The coyote is also a 4v engine, but I know you meant 4.6
Might sound a little older than my actual age, but the 5.0s NA just don’t have the neck breaking torque and I do like the simplicity of SOHC and traditional pushrod motors. That being said ford and the aftermarket scene has had years to get the overhead cam motors dialed in. Awesome video!
There is nothing wrong with a pushrod or SOHC motor. Both great engines. Thank you for watching Yellow Hammer!
Neck breaking torque is what breaks parts tho lol
Even if the 5.0 had a significant difference over the 4.6 4V I'd still stick to a 4.6 4V for the sound alone. I don't think the 5.0's sound all that great in general. Way too raspy and high pitched. So I wont be doing any Coyote swaps on my Cobra at any point lol
Completely agree. Thank you for watching Travis!
@@MikesGarageRoute66 welcome Mike!
I love the raspy high pitched sound! I think it sounds exotic! But I also love the way the 4.6 dohc sounds, especially the terminator engine
@Lethal Venom that's dumb because you use stock intake, heads, cams with tkm block and on 3 TT 1500 hp gen 3 5.0.
@@justingill5256 it ain't dumb either and the only reason they can do more on stock cams is because they get to be much more aggressive than stock 4.6 cams because of the vct. A build 4.6 can make a TON of powe, especially a teksid. Guys were in the 5s quarter mile over 10 years ago with stock forged crank, stock teksid block and stock style heads ported etc. The 4.6 is no joke when modified. Coyote guys wanna think they re wrote the book and yes they come better equipped stock but when it comes to building one to handle big power a 4.6 is every bit as good if not better.
Great video Mike. Aside from all the facts, figures and comparisons, I think the Terminator 4.6 is the best sounding V8 I have ever heard and it's still holding it's own after 20 years.
I completely agree. It truly is a great engine. Thank you for watching!
How much is a terminator engine?
@@MGRracing If you can find one in good shape, figure to pay $5K--$10K depending on the mileage.
@@tomkjr1 and then import cost to UK and fitting. I guess a super charger for the 2v is an easier option? Although the internals can go if it's not set up right .
great video and information, i was always told to do a coyote swap on my mach 1 but instead i’m doing a cobra terminator swap. This video helped me out and kept my confidence onto continuing my build by keeping it a 4.6 4v! Thanks mike!
I am glad I was able to help. The hope when you make a video is that it will be used for more than just entertainment value. Thank you very much for watching and leaving a comment. If you have a chance check out my video on failsafe type gauges. It will help protect you from melting down the new motor. th-cam.com/video/LfzWV5IVUYw/w-d-xo.html
@@MikesGarageRoute66 will do mike, thanks again!
Exactly! Well said Mike. I still can’t understand the logic of swapping out the 4.6 for a 5.0. Or for a 5.3 Ls. Just making yourself more work for nothing when all you had to do was build and boost your 4.6. Any 4.6 really. I love my aluminum 4v. Good talk Mike
I completely agree. You have an amazing engine in your Marauder! Thank you for watching!
LS swaps = 🗑️
@@x1boomer ppl spend $10-25k on ls n Coyote swaps, run them n/a n talk shit on my 2v love.. i laugh n look at them n with a Napoleon Dynomite voice i think to myself, "Idiots!!"..lol
I agree totally man. The one thing going to coyote gets you is more modern tuning but you can do that with a stand alone if you wanted to also. You also have more support aftermarket wise but the 4.6 support is pretty good they make modern blowers for cobras which says alot.
@@P71ScrewHead I know they go ls because they thing it's good bang for the buck the money you spend on an ls swap is enough or more than enough to cover the cost of a forged bottom end for your 4.6 at which you could make as much or more than any ls and sound better doing it
I really think it comes down to the good old saying it depends on how deep your pockets is
A lot of this is, I’ll put together a video on the cost to build a 4.6 vs Coyote. Thank you for watching!
Just something to throw out there. When boosting a car the lower the compression the more volume there is to cram more boost into it. Bigger volume with the same psi of boost equals bigger longer push on the pistons power stroke
@@user-kv2vu7li8f Very true but higher compression increases the speed of the flame front. Both have plus and minuses but it really depends on the fuel octane. On 93 lower compression and higher boost will put out more horsepower prior to detonation than high compression low boost. On race gas or e85, high compression and high boost will equal more power because octane is no longer the limiting factor. Since I don’t have E85 easily accessible, I went with 9.2:1 compression and 15 psi at 17 degrees with a 11.4:1 afr. When I install my Kenne Bell 2.2 and put out 17psi I’ll back the timing down to 15 at WOT. I try to keep it pretty safe.
Great video, thank you! With the right car I'd love to do a built, NA 4.6 4v from a Lincoln Aviator. Yeah, the build wouldn't be cheap, but the all in cost to Coyote swap a vehicle which didn't come with a Coyote is remarkably high.
Very true John. I think many aren’t honest on the real cost of a full Coyote swap. Either it’s a partial swap missing some of the creature comforts or all of the receipts aren’t added up. The winners are the swap vendors just like the guys selling mining supplies to the gold prospectors. Thank you for watching!
Thank you
Well done
Coyote motor is more for long range power
4.6 is more for short range power
Both good options
Just decide which you prefer
Thank you very much!
Awesome job on making people understand a little more about it keep up the great work
Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it!
I really enjoyed this… Really good explanation of things and differences. I’m going the Godzilla route on the next build.
Loved the video
That should be a pretty cool build. Thank you again for watching and I appreciate the kind words!
Awesome video. I’m a 2v guy myself. Probably not the smartest 😂😂 but fun being the underdog. Plus budget comes into mind. That’s how I look at it. Seen a few of these 2vs make some power. In the process now of going bigger turbo for us.
Andrew Lavender and many others have done great things with a 2V. Besides they sound great with big cams 🍺. Thank you for watching and please keep me up to date on your build. A bigger turbo sounds like fun!
Ported Trickflows move the same airflow as 4v heads yet weigh less, take up less space, and have less moving parts. This is why I believe 2Vs to be the more “well rounded” cylinder heads. Personally, in a world full of boost, I’m an NA guy. Something about a snappy high compression build does it for me.
@@rayman1230 How about the TrickFlow Race 44cc heads?? That's what i got over the regular ones, small 20 over bore but plan on getting the BOSS block one day..lol
@@P71ScrewHead personally, I’d rather do the 38cc 185 heads. Port them out if need be. The small percent difference just in the intake valve size doesn’t make sense to me, when the compression point increase of the 185 over the 195 heads should yield more power. That, and I’m always focused with street/ road course in mind. I’d rather give up some peak hp to gain torque, throttle response, and higher averages in power across the RPM range.
@@rayman1230 Oh yes, definitely, I agree.. I actually have those heads too, just received them a month ago.. The Race heads I've had a while now without using them so ima go ahead n slap them on as my 2v has worn piston rings 💍 n has to be opened up anyway.. I was gonna put them on another car but this happened.. The 38cc 185 heads where going in my P71 before the ring issue, all my plans turned to shit, car is getting supercharged eventually plus I plan on going big bore too so I'm gonna keep both sets.. Does cr really go up on a PI block?? Thought it was just NPI..
Always a great breakdown and video. Defiantly putting in the time and effort to bring the info to the people.
Thank you very much for watching. How have you been doing Ryan?
04 Cobra owner her....Mike this is so awesome, i actually have a WAP block on my car.....love it....i think the reason why people love the coyote so much, its just the thing 2 have, but honestly the cobra motor is just as a good as the coyote motor, but they sing 2 different songs, the cobra motor is just so special, true LEGEND, the American Supra, every 1 and there grandmother does a coyote swap.....not bashing it, i just love to be different, when i pulled the cobra out, its a show all the time, never gets old, these cars are killing in value as well, the s550 will never have that........
Thank you very much for watching and commenting. All ver good points and it sounds like you have a great cobra!
The coyote comes in normal gt which is dime a dozen and everywhere thus more people have them and they're newer and get more exposure. The 03-04 cobra and 07-14 gt500s are alot more limited especially the cobra being only 2 years so not as many people know about them or have experience with them. I'm with you though I like being different. I got an 07 gt500 for a steal and slapped a gen3r blower on it she's nasty. I've actually had people ask me if it had a coyote and when I said no they acted disappointed or acted as if I was settling somehow by saying well it's still cool I was like whhhaatt? Do you have any idea what this is? I didn't even bother explaining it. The cobra and gt500 also have a more stout manual trans stock vs the coyote so there is another advantage and they damn sure sound better. 5.4 is just a tall deck 4.6 it's a bigger 4.6 which is why I like it I'm a big mod motor guy. Reminds me alot of my 97 cobra just alot more power lol. I wish I still had my 97 I'd do forged rods pistons cams and turbo. That would be sick a forged b head motor with all the boost. Alot of people wanna keep up with the Jones. Coyotes are easier to get access to than more limited terminator and gt500 engines so they usually cost less because of this depending which one you're talking about. Compared to normal 4.6 like 2v and 3v and non terminator 4v the coyote can make alot more on stock engine which is another reason why people go with them. You could forge your 4.6 and have it ready to make more than a stock coyote can for less money which I don't understand.
I have a 2005 4.6 3 valve and also a 5.0 coyote 2014. The coyote is light years ahead on power and torque. I also have a GT 500 and the coyote is just slightly less fun to drive. That build should really wake that up!
All great engines. I love the sound of a nice cammed 3V. The GT500 must be an absolute blast to drive! Thank you for watching!
He's talking about 4v vs 4v that's more apples to apples. Not fair comparing against a 3v sohc.
Great video Mike. You sure have a lot of modular knowledge. 💯🏆
Thank you Big Stick. I learned from guys that are smarter then me. Thank you for watching!
I've seen the Terminators blow @800RWHP and I've owned them both the Mach 1 and the 03 Cobra. I loved them Both. And I've seen them both break the blocks. But I live in the Motor City and they all blow up...lol.. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching Gary, they are amazing engines. If we had E85 back then we would have melted a lot less pistons.
@@MikesGarageRoute66 I never and still don't like E85. But I'm ole school. And old...lol
@@MrMach1 E85 is great. Since it runs much richer it cools the cylinders. It also is very detonation resistant. It saves a lot of pistons. 🌽🌽🌽
I own both an 03 Mach and a 21 Mach. The Coyote is light years ahead as it should be stock for stock. The 4.6 does sound a bit better. And the 4.6 is as solid an engine as you could ask…Put a blower on a stock 4.6 NA engine you are limited to @450 wheel. The Gen 3 is easily in the 700 wheel range.
Now I agree both as purpose built engines should be close. I would still give the edge to the coyote.
I've seen GT's blow at 250 hp. You can't make a blanket statement like that because there are contributing factors to every situation. There are many who can push stock terminator motors past 1000 hp with no issues.
Great video Mike....you already know how I feel....im a 4v modular guy although I lean towards the 5.4 4v over the 4.6 .. the b heads have been shown to be better max effort then the c heads ...but no intakes for b heads under 4000 dollars other then stock and c heads you have sullivan and blower intakes for 4.6...c heads on 5.4 blocks you have sullivan/ blower intakes and coyote intakes with mmr adapters so the options open up
..sorry I started to ramble ....I 💯 agree about the coyote firing order and the sound I will choose a 4.6/5.4 4valve over coyote just because of that....everytime I hear a coyote I cringe especially if it has the super loud crappy mufflers ..
Well said!💯
Very well said and I completely agree! Thank you for watching Ford Blue!
I always watch/listen thumbs up but don't always comment but I'm sure you have a clue why
@@fordbluegage2968 Understood and thank you.
Most coyotes have long tubes catless x pipes and corsa extremes aka raspy shit lol. They can be made to sound really good with the right setup, in particular when swapped into older pre 2005 style mustangs but I Def agree 4.6/5.4/5.8 ftw. One of the major reasons I got an 07 gt500 was because of the 5.4 it's a beast and I love the fact it can make some big power on stock driveline being as old as it is AND the fact that is isn't a coyote. People seem to think only the coyote can perform and I like showing them they're wrong lol. The gt500 also had a far superior manual trans than the coyote cars did. People with coyotes need to do hpipes and some of the more tame mufflers that helps their sound alot but it still ain't no 4.6/5.4
This is a perfectly informed video excellent work on your research 💯🙏
Thank you very much!
Learn something new everyday, I wasnt sure on the cast iron block terminator motors what they possibly could hold up to in horsepower. Now I have an idea, it may be possible I can get one as a drive line drop out , complete motor nothing picked, and transmission drive shaft and fuel tank , I would like to throw in the wiring harness and ecu in it too. Teksid is nice although the turbos I would be using combine is rated @ 1340hp 670 hp each. Just I havent seen any tesksid blocks much , especially cobra one's from 96-98 , have seen mark 8's version. Which I hear has a difference in timing covers ?
Mark 8 Teksid block would work out well. Timing covers are pretty easy to swap out. I replaced my Mach 1 with an 03 Cobra.
Great video. I run a 4.6 4 valve, Teksid block, "C" headed, Manley rod, CP piston, 8.5:1, twin turbo , Garrett GT30/76, engine in my 2500# 32 coupe. I have a 4R75W with a converter behind the engine. The car is a BEAST. I had to turn the boost down to not destroy the tires. Engine makes about 500 HP on 8 lbs. boost. Boost starts about 1900 rpm and is all in by 2500 rpm. Best and cheapest build I have ever done. Totally trouble free. The automatic is the way to go. Engine is controlled by a Megasquirt, and trans by a US Shift. I have a spare Teksid Lincoln motor with forged crank that I picked for $250. Total build cost under $2000 excluding turbos. People underestimate the 4.6. Best bang for the buck.
I completely agree and you have an amazing build!
No Lincoln Teksid motors ever came with a forged crank. That was mustang/stick only. It csn have 6 or 8 bolt holes and still be cast.
@@rickstorm4198 You are correct. The crank in the engine came from a Mach 1 (stick) mustang. My other spare motor is a 1998 "B" headed Cobra motor.
That has to be one of the coolest cars ever lol. You got videos? I bet you got those big wide valve covers exposed on the 32 don't ya? I always thought that would be a cool motor for a 32. You sir have a nasty setup it's nice to see others that understand how badass the 4.6 4v is. It doesn't cost much to make some big power. I bet that 32 you have is a death trap. If you were to crank that boost some it would be ungodly I'm sure it's already fast as hell as is.
@@midnight347 '32 has a stretched wheel base ti accommodate the intercooler, about the length of a mustang. The rear end is a shortened 8.8 out of an Explorer with a ProStreet 4 link. It has a rear sway bar, front independent suspension, and corners like on rails. It tracks straight at the strip. I'd send you pics if I knew how without you giving your email to the entire world.
Wow Mike Thx for the Breakdown !! I love My Coyote But the 4.6L 4V will always be special 🏎💨💨 . Wait till you see my 4V Twin Turbo 03 Cobra video today .
The video on the Cobra was amazing. He has a lot of great cars and amazing attention to detail! Thank you for watching Car Mob!
Great video Mike. I’m confused why Ford would use connecting rods that only handle 600 RWHP on an engine released in 2011. The horsepower wars were kicking into gear at that time. That’s why Coyote engine enthusiast mostly prefer Coyote Gen 2 over Gen 1. I’m looking for a Coyote swap New Edge just to add to my collection.
Thank you for watching and replying. I’m not sure why they put weak rods in it. My assumption is they did not anticipate how many people would want to use power adders.
Dude 600 wheel is pretty good and alot of guys have pushed them to 700 for a good while without issue. Ford guys are kind of spoiled acting like 600-700 wheel on an oem long block is somehow bad lol. Alot of gm stuff can't make much more than that and the dodge stuff like the 392s and stuff even the more boost friendly 5.7 can't go much beyond that. The ls3 which is known for being boost friendly has like a 700 horse limit on stock long block and the newer lt engines I've heard can't even do that on stock motor. The gen 1 coyote is plenty good for a base gt engine from 2011. It's actually pretty damn impressive.
Very informative 👍
Thank you very much for watching Alex.
What’s bizzare is the 4.6L SOHC is somehow actually slightly wider, taller, and longer than the 5.0L by an inch or two, and the 4.6L DOHC is 3” wider, taller, and longer than the 4.6L SOHCs. Don’t ask me why they’re such huge engines, but they are. I think all the 4.6Ls as well as the 5.4L (since it’s basically the same engine and firing order, only a longer stroke) sound soooo much better, and aside from the 5.4L 3V that sucked so bad, in my opinion, they all would seriously outlast the 5.0L Coyote if you didn’t boost the power too much.
On the Coyote they reduced the size of the valve train components to reduce weight allowing it to rev higher. The is probably the reason why the heads are smaller. Thank you again for watching!
Oh ok that makes sense and you’re welcome
Id like to see a general cost comparison of how much youd put into each engine to hit 1k horsepower. That would also be a major win for either engine
That would be a good video. 03/04 Cobras sealed short blocks have held 1k horsepower before but not sure how long they lived due to the OEM forged pistons. Coyotes are good for less than 1k unless sleeved. In a way the win goes to the Cobra.
Now people may say where is the GEN 2 and GEN 3 Coyote ( stats ) Most people are going for those vs the gen one,.. If you look on swap prices gen 1 is cheap...You make a great video on this... I feel you can have the 2 engines making the same numbers but ( how and when ) the power kicks in and who can hold it is when things get spicy. 11.0:1 compression aint going make it happen vs a Coyote, but can be built to contender for sure.. People dont want to put in the work for that 4v cost in parts
All very good points and most people take the easy route. Building an engine is hard. Swapping motors is a lot easier. As always thank you for watching!
My 327 ci big bore stroker tr50 road race block 2v has 13to1 comp ratio. Custom cams, custom dual plenum/tb intake. 572fwhp
If it has same compression, ported heads and aftermarket cams it can hold its own with any coyote. The coyote has more compression and more rpm and it has vct so the oem cams are pretty aggressive (they will actually chop if you lock out vct) so that is why I'm saying cam the 4v. He showed in the video ported 4v heads flow close to the same as ported coyote heads. Once you do the work to the 4.6 it basically becomes an older more primitive coyote without vct and all the other tech. A gen 2 and 3 coyote is gonna cost a good bit more than a gen 1. You also gotta do the control pack or a standalone. The control pack is like 2500 now. It's not as clear cut dollar for dollar as people wanna make it out to be. If the vehicle already has a 4v imo it's best to build it. If it doesn't maybe a coyote swap makes more sense it depends on your goals. If you only Rev a coyote to 6500-7000 like alot of the 4.6s they won't make as much power as they do people spin them to 7500-8000 that in and of itself is an advantage. Both choices can get it done it just is annoying the coyote or nothing guys who won't give props to the 4v. It has a ton of potential when built and I mean a ton.
I’m starting to wonder if pushrod sbf setups are still relevant.
I love the sound and tork of my 4.62v,i own a modded 03 mustang gt and ive whipped a few stock coyotes.and hemi challengers too.a 650hp plus nitrous camero got me on the big end ,but i love the way my car handles .
I agree Ray these New Edges are a lot of fun. We are also much lighter as well. The new cars are just so heavy that they need serious horsepower to get them down the track. Thanks for watching Ray!
Awesome video! Your video just took coyote swap out of my mind! 01 Cobra
Thank you very much for watching!
@@MikesGarageRoute66 is there some kind of way to get in touch with you? I have a few eaton swap questions.
@@MrShawnsvtconv Sure hit me up on my email mikesgarageroute66@gmail.com
Nice breakdown Mike.
Thank you very much. It means a lot!
Great video. I think the cost is also a big point to be made. Coyotes are expensive just to buy in the first place. maybe they will get cheaper as time goes on and it will be more affordable as I have seen with F150 5.0L's people are swapping into mustangs. I like the coyote and think its pretty cool. I like the stock coyote with a 2.3L or 2.65L Roushcharger (VMP basically) that can handle 600 and I think it would be cool to have a high revving one in a new edge but you are right, people have been making awesome power with the 4.6L. I have a teksid sitting in the garage that was given to me. It has a weird repair done to the oil passage where the timing chain rides on one side but I think its cool to have as a piece of history. It still should be good if I ever want to use it. I think a lot of people want to coyote swap because it's (easier) usually complete and they just drop it in and add the control pack. Also I notice coyotes seem to make less torque.
All very good points. The cost is the big thing and the winners are the ones selling all the swap parts. Kind of like with gold prospectors. It's not the protectors that make the money. It's the guys selling the supplies. Thank you for watching Justin!
I think they have a shorter stroke don't they? Something about the way they're made causes torque to be lower. They also have to Rev higher to make the power. For example a 600 rwhp coyote and 600 rwhp terminator running a 2.3 tvs for example the cobra will be like 600 torque while the coyote is a decent bit less. And also if you only Rev the coyote as far as the terminator 6500 rpm or less it wouldn't even make the power it's making. The 4.6 and 5.4/5.8 engines make the power at a lower rpm. I like the high revving stuff but on the street big torque down low feels more like old school muscle not having to Rev to 7500 to go fast. They're both great. I wouldn't swap out a 4v for one maybe a 2v but 2v can make good power too when modified.
Great breakdown video Mike thx!
The biggest advantage of the coyotah is the vvti and the extra displacement vs a 4.6.
Both get beat up pretty good by ls/lt stuff.
Thanks for watching!
No they don't lol. The only place an ls has any advantage over either one is max effort na builds because they can punch out to way over 400 cubic inches but the mod motors more than hold their own for their small displacement. When boost enters the equation its game over. You need to do some homework and get off the ls nut rider train lmao.
@@midnight347 bolt na ls wins, h/c ls wins, max effort na ls wins. If you knew anything about anything then you would understand that all engines run at roughly 14.7 psi na because that is atmospheric pressure. Now if you double atmospheric pressure efficiently the power gap the ls/lt engines have on the coyotah then the power gap doubles also.
So you simply don't know wtf you're talking about furd boi.
This is why I'm choosing to build my 2004 4.6L DOHC Mach 1. I considered doing a Coyote swap, but after doing some research and looking at all the parts I would have to acquire, building the 4.6L seems more logical. Plus, the 4.6L sounds better. My Mach 1 has the 4-speed auto, so I'll have to opt for a forged crank upgrade along with rods and pistons. Still trying to decide who I want to build the engine. I live in the southeast U.S.
Sounds like a good plan, you can keep your cast crank and it is good to 600 rwhp. The transmission is good to 500 so the transmission is the weaker link. Just don’t shift over 6700 rpm with a cast crank.
There is only one builder I would trust. Jordan from Modular Head Shop. He builds Mustang Lifestyles engines.
Thank you for watching!
@@MikesGarageRoute66 Definitely considering Jordan after watching a video of him build an engine. Very informative and detailed, he really knows what he's doing. I'll probably go with a forged crank since I'm installing a Procharger D-1X kit immediately after the rebuild.
@@chrism.728 That sounds like a great plan 👍🏻
Great video and good to know information!!
Thank you very much for watching Jamie!
Hey Mike🤙🏻 JimmyVoid FiveOposse Avoidit86. Great vid. Coyote, To be or not to Be😂 That’s the question.
Very true my friend. Thanks for watching Jimmy!
This is a well put together video with useful information yet after reading the title of the video I don't understand why we are comparing the supercharged Cobra motor to a naturally aspirated factory GT motor that's not a fair comparison . If you supercharge a gen 1 coyote with about 9 lb of boost you're over 700 horsepower, that would be an apples to apples comparison. For people like me that actually go to the track and actually race a lot, we quite often see 4.6L with $4,000 worth of work done to them get spanked by newer mustang GT's straight off the showroom floor quite often. Imagine if we did a fair comparison and compared the 4.6 dual overhead cam stock gt to a gen 1 coyote. Right off the bat you're looking at what 150 horsepower differential. Also some of your numbers are speculation I've seen gen 1 coyotes push a thousand horsepower at the track with no ill effects, never seen a coyote motor blow up but I have seen quite a few older mustangs spill their guts down the track. I mean come on what are we debating the motors were made something like 15 years apart from each other there's not going to be a comparison
I was comparing the internals and their capabilities, not the power adders. The 4.6 4V was never was in a Mustang GT. It was in the Cobra, Mach 1, Marauder, and Aviator only. Thank you for watching Robert.
Great video Mike!
Thank you very much SFT!
When I had my 98 Mark VIII I was considering building the 4.6 to handle at least 600-700hp, but after doing my research I decided it would have been best to grab a stock used gen 2 coyote and just add a fuel system and boost to make the same HP or more. But I ended up having to sell it a couple of years ago.
It really is a tough call. The 4.6 can be built just as good as a Coyote, but it does take funds to do it, plus the experience. I completely understand why you and others do the Coyote swap instead.
@@MikesGarageRoute66 another thing is that the coyote is so easily tunable even with the stock computer.
A gen 2 coyote with low miles will prob cost as much as doing forged internals on your current 4.6 definately wouldn't be too much difference on price. You also gotta do the Ford control pack or a stand alone the control pack is another 2500.
@@jaebush you gotta have the Ford control pack to use stock ecu which is like 2500 bucks. That adds significantly to the cost.
@@midnight347 I’ve recently found a gen 2 coyote for $1,100 with 50k+ miles. I’ve seen 4.6 go for around $600 at my local scrap yard. I’m still willing to buy the coyote over the 4.6.
Great and accurate info!
Thank you very much for watching Kenny!
I have to add this to PEOPLE are quick to go to the NEW vs the old.. We as people just throw away everything take a look around ( people want the new and people want to see the new. ... People will put down the Ford motors look at the 2v no love there and the 4v is right thetre with it ( with no love ) and the 2v sound cooler ( go figure )
I completely agree my friend. As always thank you for watching!
Very true!
Great info thanks.
Thank you for watching Todd!
@@MikesGarageRoute66 I’m building my first modular after years of running Cleveland’s. I don’t know much about them. I’ll need some advice on identifying the engine I bought.
You know, for people who want to keep it in the fam this might be great. But the cost to build is ridiculous for the HP gain. However, I do believe the 4.6 is probably the most reliable engine food has had.
I completely agree. The costs are astronomical now. Thanks for watching!
You're building it to take more power boosted not so much for the na gains although they can make some good na power set up correctly. Give it coyote compression and rpm and displacement and match the headflow suddenly most of the coyotes advantages are gone imagine that lol. It's just better set up stock but it costs alot more so...
I'm back again , someone was telling me that the Terminator block was nothing special, it was basically the same as a GT block, 🤔 think not. Thinking their is some difference?
Yep they are completely different. Thanks for watching!
It wasnt that special if you're a true mustang head. Everyone just says 03 cobra was the best but they always speak of horsepower numbers with the blower. Without the blower it's still 305-310 just like the other cobras. Literally nothing special if you build engines.
If you're a teenager and don't know much history, a termi motor will always be the most sought out.
A b head with a stage 1 port flows very similar to a c head. And we won't get into the rest. I'd say a teksid block is the way to go if you have the know how.
@@ucnhtmenow1 interesting, saw this one mechanics video were he had a 03 crate motor Terminator with stock Eaton roots blower . Hardly any mods besides a fuel system , the injectors he believes were 80/85 lbs 'er some comp cams nothing serious just a mild cam set. Run it somewhere in 18-23 degrees timing with race gas running little more m
Boost , somewhere between 10-12lbs and dyno at 559hp and 533 tq if I remember right. Not to shabby if you ask me , knocking on the door for 600hp mostly stock and did have long tubes . Non port heads and Eaton .with those ported and a little more boost from the Eaton like 14 probably would have been hitting 600hp . I knew of a difference between Gt block and Svt block both iron , the terminators I hear are rated up to about 1300hp, 1500 with the teksid block and about 80 lbs in weight difference with the teksid block aluminum vs iron. Now I hardly see anymore terminator swaps ,it's like the focus is on coyote engines.
Good Question
Thank you for watching!
Great comparison. Cost is a factoring decision, does one build a 4.6 or coyote swap. That may make for a good part 2 video. Set the goal of 800 - 1000 rwhp, supercharged
That would make a very good video. Thank you very much for watching and the suggestion.
I think if that is your goal and you want long term reliability a built 4.6 makes more sense because that is really getting to the very tippy top of what any stock coyote can handle ecsp supercharged (they can take that on turbo setups any engine can make more on turbos than superchargers because 800-900 wheel with a blower the engine would see the same stress as a 1000+ wheel turbo setup because turbos don't take power to make power). To be truly reliable at that power level with a blower long term you're gonna need a built motor either way imo so if you already have a 4v 4.6 in your vehicle to me that makes alot more sense. Compared to a gen 1 coyote built 4.6 all day.
Great Explanation! I recently picked up a '97 Cobra. What are the differences between my 4.6 4v and the '03 Cobra 4v?
The 97 Cobra is a great engine with a hotter intake cam then the 03/04 Cobra. 204 duration vs 186. It does have a few shortcomings. It uses B heads instead of C heads so it flows a little less but there are great gains with porting. The pistons are hyper so they are not very boost friendly and the rods are weak. You can add a power adder and bring it up to 425hp pretty reliably and have a pretty quick car. I really like all the Cobras. Thank you for watching!
I have a 96 cobra ,same car. Rods are powered metal, and the pistons are hypereutectic. The engine has "B" heads, and a somewhat restrictive intake. The rods are the limiting factor in a power adder application. I wouldn't trust them over 450 HP. Some live, some don't. NA it's over 300 hp. Change the rear gear to a 3.73, and leave the engine alone. It's a fun car.
@@turbo32coupe Very true!
@turbo32coupe I don't think 373 is enough for an all motor b head. They really need a gear I wouldn't go lesstha. A 4.30 and you can even do 456 depends on the rear tire height. I wound still do 4.10 even if it's boosted if it's on stock bottom they Rev to 7k and have a long geared 5 speed. Those cars need a steep gear as bad as any I've ever seen.
Hi Mike. Do you have any experience with Screaming Demon coils? Just wondering if they are a worthwhile mod?
I don’t. I’d recommend OEM and tighten the gap based on the amount of boost. OEM seem to be best.
I think it's feasible if you're doing some sort of build for boost but stock to stock n/a 5.0 will win hands down the four valve would need cams and Sullivan intake to even come close
Very true, I think the closest match is a pulleyed Cobra vs a manual Coyote. Thank you for watching!
@Mikes Garage guys are taking some intake, cams and heads making 1500hp gen 3 built block fuel system upgrade and TT. Many people have taken gen 3 1200hp with just opg and crank sprocket with on 3 TT with fuel system upgrade. Lol what trans you gonna run with that 4.6 midnight performance sales a 2000hp 10 speed hard to beat 10 speeds for a great price your biased with sound so many different exhaust systems to get the sound you like. Get real dude
@@justingill5256 there are plenty of transmissions you can run. You think a 4.6 can't run a build trans too? At that power level 10 speeds aren't even needed bro most people go with less gears. A built 4r70 can hold plenty of power you can also do a built 6r80 they all bolt right to the 4.6 any trans that bolts to a coyote will bolt to a 4.6. There is nothing special about the coyote it just comes better equipped stock when it comes to all out builds a 4.6 can hold its own. A terminator 4.6 can hold just as much power as a gen 3 coyote and its almost 20 years old. A coyote is just a more modern advanced 4.6 that is better setup stock I mean it is 10-20 years or so newer depending which one you're talking about so I'd hope so. Coyote fanboys just can't get their head out of their own ass long enough to recognize the 4.6 is pretty good too. Forged rods and pistons isn't that hard to do people act like it's a death sentence to have to have an engine built but they'll pay 50+ grand for a new mustang just so they can brag about having 800 wheel hp limits or whatever you can build your 4.6 for a few grand and make more. There are other options besides coyotes the world doesn't revolve around the coyote.
@@justingill5256 like he said in the video how many people considering between them is going to be building for 1500 hp? Very very few only serious racers. The majority well never go over 1000 wheel some won't even make it near that far. So what does it matter how easy it can get to 1500 wheel if 99% of the people modding them will never go even close to that far. It makes 0 sense.
Hey mike, so would you say it’s relatively safe to build a WAP block especially if you don’t plan to go much above 700-750hp? I noticed you said some had taken to 1300hp in you side note.
Thank you for watching Mike. 750 is perfectly safe if you only bore it .020 over. It will handle 1,000 hp no problem. It’s about as strong as a Gen2 Coyote block that hasn’t been sleeved.
By "gen1 coyote mach 1", you're talking about boss 302 right?
How much power could I put down on a stock block, manley internals svt cobra 4v / mach 1?
What’s the rundown on your whole setup as far as parts and also your piston to wall clearance and ring end gap.
@@MikesGarageRoute66 I'm currently looking into the market because I'd like a budget muscle car I can bring to the cars and coffee. '99+ SVT Cobras as well as high-km Mach 1s are quite cheap rn. Suppose I buy one, keep the 4.6 4v block and replace the internals with Manley dished pistons and Manley H-beam rods, as well as rings, valve springs, and so on. Basically rebuilding the engine with some more suitable internals. How much torque could it take? What could I expect boost-wise? What kind of wheel horse would it do before the wap block cracks? I understand that the trans/rear will need some supported mods as well.
@@maybelive765 The NA Cobra’s and Mach 1 WAP blocks can hold over 1000hp. You can spend 15k for a Mach 1, put in 15k - 18k in parts and hit that goal. Or buy a 03/04 Cobra for 25k - 30k and also hit 1000hp. Either way will work. The main advantage to getting the 03/04 Cobra is prestige and resale. A 15k Mach 1 with 15k of parts is only worth 20k - 25k.
@@MikesGarageRoute66 Very true. Mach 1's are 10K out here, very easily. So that's why im kinda interested. vs a cobra is like 3-4 times the price.
I have a 200l cobra and I am curious to how much power it can take safely and what the specs are… Thank you for the video
@@anthonywithem2272 450hp roots or twin screw, 475-500 centrifugal, 525 turbo. The difference between the numbers is based on the amount of parasitic draw the power adder has and how the boost comes in. Roots has the most parasitic draw and gives a lot of torque down low. Turbo is the most efficient but requires the most maintenance.
@@MikesGarageRoute66 what is the weak link in my short block
@@anthonywithem2272 Simple safe way is 450hp
The weak link is the connecting rods followed by the pistons. With better rods and pistons it's pretty stout. On a budget, DSS FX pistons and Coyote rods will get you to the sweet spot of 650 - 700hp. Anything over 700 and longevity starts to get compromised.
@@MikesGarageRoute66 thank you for your reply
I have a 4.6 2V in my '04 Mustang GT Convertible. I'd love to have it completely "blueprinted" and expertly upgraded with two goals in mind: longevity and strength. I'm a newbie so I'm unsure if my goals are realistic, but I'm a fanatic about precision, efficiency, and maintenance. I gladly pay for top-tier premium pump gas and the best synthetic oil which I change at 3K intervals. I am planning to learn everything I can about this engine, it's strengths and weaknesses, and what upgrades and improvements can be done. Compromises that Ford had to abide to meet certain standards and price points to build and sell this car are understandable. My dream would be to have about 350 HP and 350 torque from an engine that will last 300K miles under my tender loving care. Any comments will be appreciated.
Thank you for watching. Longevity and strength are opposites when it comes to piston material. Hyper pistons will last the longest but are the weakest. 2618 pistons are the strongest but wear out quickly due to low silicon content. My recommendation is 4032 pistons. They will last 100k to 150k miles and will take good power levels up to 15 pounds of boost reliably. My choice would be Mahle or DSS SX pistons with steel rings. 03/04 Cobras used 4032 material pistons
@@MikesGarageRoute66 Thank you! This is precisely the kind of information I'm looking for.
Gibtec make excellent pistons as well
Completely agree. They make great pistons!
how different do these numbers look for the mach 1 engines?? i know they don't have like good connecting rods and what not but how do other components stack up
Great question. In short the Mach 1 can reliably handle 425 to 450 hp. The Terminator can handle 1000 on E85. The manual Mach 1 engine has the same forged crank as the Cobra. The auto Mach 1 has a cast one. The Mach 1 has weak rods and pistons, but the WAP aluminum block on the Mach 1 is strong. The heads on the Mach 1 and Cobra are the same, it’s just the short block that is different. Thank you for watching!
Have to agree the coyote doesn't sound as good as a 2v 4.6 let alone a 4v or push rod 5.0. Now as an owner of a 03 white mach1 that's been giving issues. I got the car has 167k miles supposed to have a engine rebuild like most high mileage cars there are signs of the engine being removed. The right rear bank 02 was the code given so I replaced all it runs worse car has no cats and can't find a delete tune for it. Not gonna lie very tempted to coyote swap it. Is my first 4v so my question is what kinda money we talking to build the current engine in the car to actually run with the coyote? I have found some gen 2 and 3s for around 4k.
First thank you for watching. With no cats it should run fine, it would just have the check engine light on. The upstream o2 sensors are the feedback sensors for afr. The rear o2 sensors have zero affect on the engine. They are only there to tell the computer that the cats failed, but afr it is not affected. The first thing I would do is a compression check. See the if the engine is sound. From there you want to check live data to see the left and right upstream o2 sensors to see if you are running lean. Both banks should be similar. If lean then start with a fuel filter. Also look at cylinder misfires. That will tell you how if a coil pack is bad which are common. Try to diagnose and not swap out parts. As for Coyote swapping that is for a v6 car. These are limited edition and should not be coyote swapped. For more power add boost. There is an Eaton swap kit on the Cobra forums for 3k. As far as the rebuild you can spend 5k to 15k depending on quality of parts and if you do the labor or not.
You can get the engine for that if you're lucky (that seems pretty low for gen 2 and 3 but doable) but even then you still gotta do a stand alone or Ford control pack which is like 2500 bucks now btw then you can use your oem trans but it'll likely need built with either or swap another trans that is going to be the same either way you go. So honestly I believe it would be easier probably not much more if any more expensive and once that 4v is built it can make some big time power. I wound forge the 4.6 and put a gen3r blower on it that they make for terminators. You would absolutely love the sound and the torque that built 4.6 could make with that blower. And it still keeps its original character. A Mach is special like cobras it had a special engine you should keep that style engine if possible. Just my .02
I like the 4.6 more but that's just me, I know most people really prefer the Coyotes.
We all have what we like. I love my 4V 4.6, but when it comes time to add a truck I’ll get a used F150 with a Gen 1 Coyote and a 6r80.
Its not like u cant stroke the DESTROKED 4v 4.6 to 4v 5.0
Very true you can stroke a 4.6. Thank you very much for watching!
Can you build a 4.6 4v as good as a coyote ? Cries in 2v😥 😅
Thanks for watching!
I wonder what a 5.4L DOHC would make
Not much more hp than the 4.6, but it does have more torque.
@@MikesGarageRoute66it will make more power if everything is sized correctly for the displacement. If it runs 4.6 sized stuff it's gonna make 4.6 power displacement alone isn't gonna be an advantage other than tq like you said you gotta have heads and cams (and intake if not running a positive displacement blower) to maximize the cubic inch advantage.
Good Content
Thank you Shawn. I really appreciate it!
I will stick with my 2v 4.6 in my New Edge with 450 rwhp
450 rwhp in a new edge is a quick car! Thanks for watching!
@@MikesGarageRoute66 Thank you for the great videos.
Mike isn't the coyote engine actually Bmw motor? Love my 03 Mach 1. I want to send pictures to you.
It is a Ford engine created by Mike Harrison at the request of Bob Fascetti. It was based on the 4.6 and the goal was to fix all the flaws discovered in the 4.6 while using cutting edge technology. Thank you for watching!
@@MikesGarageRoute66 Ok thank for information. Thank you for responding mike.
@@twohotgt4uwarner336 You are very welcome.
Nah, I like my Cadillac 4.6 4v, even though the head bolts are stripped out
Cadillacs are definitely nice 👍🏻
Uuummmmm
Let me know your thoughts, I try to be pretty open minded. I create the videos hoping someone finds them helpful.
Big yawn.