@@richardholdener1727 You didn't show how much the 3v made with 14.5 lbs boost... I saw the file was there when you opened the 10lbs boost though?? @ 7:18 ... Only asking because I'm debating single vs twin turbo on my 05 F150 (towing) 5.4 3v, doing MMR rods, timing guides/tensioners yada yada... I will probably just keep it under 10lbs, but nice to know the potential
As a guy whose building a 3v I really appreciate this! It’s hard to find content or information about the 3v considering it’s short lifespan. Good video!
How many thousands of them are still running. There 3 of them same color and package as my FX4 in a town of 8000 people, dozens of 2 and4wd running around. Not to shabby for a motor with 'problems'!! Mine just tripped 250000! I tow a 5400lb dry weight camper. Car trailers, gonna pull an old tractor soon!!
@@Bugsidious CPE or an old JPC if you can find one (and have no budget) ford performance is also good but if youre going to see boost pressures in excess of 20 I would just run the Jegs intake. Fore Innovations also has complete fuel systems available.
For a car, i'd rather have the 4 valve. For a truck, maybe a 3 valve. If i was going 2 valve, i'd rather get an LS to have better aftermarket support. Horsepower knows no branding.
@@sepg5084the mod motors have endless aftermarket support and with forged internals sky's the limit no reason for an ls. Buy a gm if you wanna build an ls.
Fuck ya! Now we just need the V10 and it will be full circle. Just kidding Rich, love your videos. I have learned a lot from every single 2v mod video you have produced. Your Non Pi shortblock with PI ported heads and cams combo is by far my favorite.
So I remember doing some research in the past and the 57 trim t04e turbo's actually tend to make less power than the 50 trims with all else being equal. The inducer on the compressor is slightly larger but the exducer is the same. I'd almost bet if you did the math and plot them out on a compressor map the 50 trim would have been a better choice to stick with all around, I would've enjoyed seeing back to back with the exact same turbo setup.
2v arent nearly as bad as ppl make them out to be. You got guys out here in stock 2v gts from the 90s getting gapped by coyotes and everyone says oh they suck theyre slow...with the right mods they can make some power and it dont take nearly as many mods as most people think it does. I think the power is very respectable. The 4v is def the king of the older mod motors and even the coyote is a 4v. The gt500s were also 4v albiet 5.4 and a punched out version of the same engine the 5.8. I love me some 4vs but i also realize the potential of the 2v when done right and i respect them and they sound great.
Came back to watch this video again, showing my brother. I'm finding similar turbos out there in that t04e 57 trim and 60 trim just wondering what that aspect ratio was on those 57 trim? For me this video won't get old
Love your channel. Currently have a 3v 4.6 Mustang GT. What cams and head work were done? Or did you run boost at 10.5lbs with stock internals, stock heads on the 3v 4.6?
In this video specifically, for the 3v, it was stock heads, cams, piston rods, with 65lb injectors with long tubes? I wanna make sure i got that correct. I would love to replicate this in my 3v for a while before i get a 4v 5.4 and rebuild it and go with boost.
Love to see what you could do with a sleeved and turbo'd 5.4L or 5.8L Ford Mod Motor. Not too many have done that as sleeved Coyotes are pretty hot right now.
Friend did that on accident with the wrong spring in the WGA, it went lean and made 870 and then spun the main right next to the redline. Boost pegged around 29psi if my memory serves.
Bought your book a few years ago on the 4.6/5.4 building HP on the dyno when I had my 06 P71 Crown Vic. I never did get it boosted however I did put the Trick Flow heads on it when they came out, I remember in your book how you mentioned how it would be great if someone stepped up and made an aftermarket head for the 2 valve. Along with the 262 cams and some other tweaks I got it running pretty good for an NA 2 valve. Love those big ol Crown Vics, going to get another and put some boost to this one.
They made almost their rated power at the tires. I've seen one test that tossing the factory airbox aside made more than 400 at the tires on a stock car. It was also a magazine test car, so was maybe better than most, but they could deliver the goods.
@@timothybayliss6680 they typically made 350-360 whp stock. Ran like they had 320whp. I have a 03 cobra motor in a notch with a ported blower that makes 468whp 471wtq
@@HioSSilver1999 I haven't looked into cobras in years. From what every dork that has one says is they have a long break in period, and will continue to increase in power until almost 30k miles. The most I've seen from someone claiming to have a stock car is 381 SAE on a mustang dyno. That seems really high to me, like more than a c7 corvette. If you look at the mph these cars could hit in the 1/4, they were making at least 430hp the whole time.
Just made a request for 3v 5.4. low boost 6-8 lbs, for towing. My 5.4 3valve motor does a good job towing my 5400lb camper. No complaints. But 450-500 ft.lb. of touque @6-7 lbs of boost would be awesome. The old dogs got 250000 miles on it, but still going strong. If I decided to freshin it up it be nice to have more power. My phazers are locked out, all the fixed done.
@@markmccarty727 I know a centri blower isnt known for torque production at low rpms but it is a bolt on option for boost with a 5.4. It would have a rising boost curve but still produce a lot more torque than stock.
@@madmod Yes, and it's an easy installation, but it's not really a load sensing application. My 5.4 does a really good job, and I'm nowhere near maxing out the tow capacity. But just like racing, a little more is always better. Probably could get 550-600ft. lbs. Of torque really easy with 70 mm turbo. I think 500 would more than I need. Getting onto the interstate pulling a camper is tuff with some of the short ramps and NO acceleration lane!! Hardly ever do that, but a little more power is never a bad thing
@@markmccarty727 The benefit to even a centri blower is the fact you can pulley it up to get into boost more quickly while also avoiding any exhaust issues with having to feed a turbo. You will still come into boost very early with a vortech and a pulley. Should be able to support 500+ ft/lbs no problem.
@@madmod Still dragging it along. To do that ud still have to make arrangements for bleeding boost off by the time you get it spinning faster. I know, I want alot for next to nothing. In reality, a 4.6 with a properly sized turbo would probably be more efficient. But I'd still be pulling that big ass transmission and rear end! I'm out waiting on back surgery and got to much free time, but not able to put it to use!! It works fine now, and very versatile. 6lbs. Of boost @2500 would really great though!
He used to do testing for muscle mustangs and fast ford magazine back in the day that is actually where the 4v portion of the test came from they did a boost comparison on that engine he mentioned in the video they did twin screw, stock blower, centrifugal blower and these twins. They were always doing cool tests and build up like these in those mags back in the day man I miss mm&ff mag going to have to get another subscription. Not the same as it once was but still a good mag for ford guys with lots of info.
So Rich, I'm a big Honda guy. I have a 612 whp EJ8 built LSVTEC turbo. I also have a 6th gen Accord that's about to get a J32A swap with a 6 speed manual. What I'd really like to see is what a single or twin turbo kit would do on a J32A2. I know that you're big on the B16 and B18, but I'm really interested in seeing what the stock J series can do. My stock J32A was rated at 260 hp and mine has headers, a full exhaust with dual mufflers, an Injen cold air intake, and a single stage 50 hp dry nitrous kit.
Do you happen to have data a buick 455 we could see? Or the data on the LS that greg brown put the smallblock ford hemi heads on in Hot Rod site, i believe you were the photographer on that motor
@@richardholdener1727 Wow! I wonder how these stock 3v can't survive on the street/track over say 500 HP? Seems like in the real world with exhaust restrictions, real driveline, tire torque, axles/transmissions and twisting forces tweaking everything back up the drivetrain they tend to fail at much lower power levels. Do you think it's realistic to say that with an engine dyno (due to how smooth the resistance is) that a "test car" might have to reduce the power at the crank by say 30% to have some sort of safety factor? Interested in your thoughts on this! Like in the same way that launching a stick shift car can break stuff at way lower power levels than an auto does. Keep up the great videos and showing us what's possible - Love it!
This is an engine dyno with no exhaust and no accessories pulling hp from it and no driveline loss. In a car this combo might see 600 at the wheels on a good day which isnt bad just wanted to put into perspective that this 700+hp is nowhere near 700 WHEEL hp which is what most people refer to in the automotive aftermarket industry. It isnt that hard to make power with a 2v people just repeat what everyone else says that they can't do it. With stock rods they can't reliably hold much above 400-450 rwhp but you can get a forged rotating assembly for like 2 grand and then the skies the limit basically. That is the only thing holding a 2v back from making big power. It won't make as much as a 4v with equal mods and boost but it can def make plenty of power.
@@midnight347You’re not wrong, but how much horsepower do you think a properly sized exhaust costs? A proper exhaust will have less than 1psi of back pressure (not pre-turbo). I don’t believe the power loss will show up on a dyno.
Do you remember what size turbos were offered with this HP Performance kit? I have this kit on a 96 cobra right now. I think the paperwork that I have stated that the turbos are rated at 700-800 horsepower. The A/R on the compressor housing is 0.5. Wondering what trim they are.
Thanks for the 3v content! My 07 3v is tired and I’m debating whether to rebuild & boost or swap for a 460 or maybe a boosted 351w like the 1k hp version you did in another video.
Just do forged internals on the 3v and add boost. They can make a ton of power no reason to go with a different engine unless you just don't wanna deal with having an engine built which is ideal honestly for longevity if you actually care about being able to run it like its supposed to be ran and still get plenty of life out of it.
These turbos are quite a bit bigger than a gt2860rs. The highest mass flow I've seen is 48lb/m where the potato will only flow about 35lb/m. When I saw the near 1000hp, that's about all the air these turbos can move. You'll never find a potato that makes more than about 400 at the crank, thats with race gas or e85, the compressor is just too small
When you start revving that 4v to 8k with stand alone it really comes to life assuming you have the right cams and intake manifold to make power there.
Hey Richard, I just bought a complete 4.6 motor with aluminum block (RF 1L2E) and PI heads for 300 dollars. I think it came out of a 2001 explorer. It has stage 2 NA cams from Cushman Motorsports and I am afraid they will not work with a turbo because of the duration. It also has the 6 bolt crank but I will have to upgrade the rods and pistons since I am wanting to go single turbo. What combo would you recommend without breaking the bank?
Hi Richard, I've always enjoyed reading your articles back in the Muscle Mustangs and fast Fords days and watching your videos, they are a wealth of information. I was wondering if you have any experience with forced induction modular engines running on LPG auto propane? It doesnt seem like there is much info out there regarding forced induction and LPG as a fuel source. Are there adequate engine control systems available to run LPG on a twin turbo or supercharged modular ford engine? can the stock ECU control LPG injectors (Im wondering if the ECU from a vehicle that came from Ford with the "gaseous engine prep package" might be set up this way?
Richard, I'm installing a Crown Vic frame and drive train under a '71 Ford F100 body. This is done a lot but I wanted to know what I was getting with the 2006 CV (not a P71 police car) engine... were these the 2 valve engines? Would they be like the non PI mustang 4.6s? What can I do to bump up the power on these? Thanks in advance, this would be a great video someday to help all us swap guys out. Thanks, love the videos and the knowledge gained. Clay
sooooooo....what about the V10's....2 valves specifically. there a freaking everywhere. would love to see what it can do anywhere from 5-15lbs of boost...
Have you ever considered the VW 12 valve VR6? Pretty simple motor and has a fairly stout bottom end from the factory. They were initially designed to be a diesel if I’m not mistaken. They love boost.
When you modify the ford modular motors( mechanically) is there a way to make adjustments to the ECU at home or a program you buy, or how are you setting up the tune ? Thank you for sharing Richard.
you should do a stock pi 2v block with non pi stock heads with a twin turbo .. .. so a budget guy with a both engines could basically do a budget NA build for 1 car using the non pi block w the pi heads + cam upgrades.. and the pi block with the non pi heads along with a cheap twin 50 or 57 turbo kit for car 2,, + needed ecu and fuel injector-pump upgrades ..aiming for the 600 ish hp mark... mainly bringing this up because i have 2 cars with 95-96 year 4.6 2valve and a 01 4.6 2v...all lincoln tc
@@richardholdener1727 my thought is a lower compression motor on the cheap $$ to make more power under boost pressure.. ( which is due to more total volume being pressurised on the intake stroke) provided you have the turbo well sized/..ect for the build. However if the non pi heads are junk then ???
Y2da420 i see ya, good for the goose & the gander - na vs boosted and /or compressed ??? Now I'm confused, like mechanical variable duration and the " open valve " concept!
I feel bad for the guys with 5 valves being left out... well not really... Wish I could bounce a few dozen question off of you but feel like I get a better grasp on the flow-power dynamic with each of your videos. Maybe you can dig into the cam spec stuff a little more? I get the impacts of static compression and head flow in a static state, but really feel lost in understanding what those cam specs mean to outcomes and how the variations in cam specs impact everything. Seems like you can really "adjust" dynamic compression with the cam set up with changes in lobe sepration but how much do such changes matter? Really appreciate your work.
I know this video is old, but it is useful for me. Starting a new project, F100/Crown Vic swap. I got a 2011 Romeo 2V PI engine and I want to make cheap power on it. From what I can see, turbos are definitely the ticket to cheap power, especially those ebay gt45 turbos (I plan on doing a single to save money). I am completely new to the 4.6 motor. Other than ring gap, what needs to be done to support a decent amount of boost? I know the 2v had forged internals -- what could the stock internals take?
Richard, I know it’s a bit old and probably at this point a bit played out. But.... Can you give us a 5.4 2v mustang intake shootout with the adapters? What would be amazing is if you obtained a hardballer intake to compare as well.
Or just lock the cams in a more reasonable spot, or get a custom grind with a proper ICL for locked cam timing. The TFS 2v adjustable crank sprockets work well on a 3v.
@@andrewslagle1974 Agreed with a N/A version. Once you go boost, it is barely worth the effort to risk the loss of valvetrain control with the stock phasers. At least you can now piece together a reliable system where you can use the VCT, not like 10 years ago.
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks but will it handle cam timing on 3v or 6.2, i was also curious if the ford racing pack for the coyote would run the 3v, 6.2 including cam timing
I saw an odd post on Facebook of a guy trying to use 3V exhaust manifolds on a 2v PI 4.6...I have yet to find any posts on any of the forums like TCCoA showing the mods to make it fit (like welding cast iron to make holes for the 2V studs) and dyno comparisons.
I'm looking for a after market fuel rail system for the 5.4l 3v. I haven't been able to locate one for my 2005 f150 project. It's for a supercharger application, so that I can run a return system and a regulator. Thanks in advance for the help.
@@richardholdener1727 have I missed the video somehow? If not I always find that mind experiment super cool. I'm actually searching for a cobra to build into a twin charged car.
then why do you loose so much bottom end when they are locked out? and wouldnt 90% of all the phazers rarley if ever get to the point of being utilized in normal dail driviving making there failures less common?
@@trevorvaughn5562 it makes alot of power and a ton of torque but it will make less peak power than it would with the turbos alone which is why people who are using them to make big power and race them use turbos and an earlier na cobra manifold. It will still make a ton of power and even more torque. Seen em do it in mm&ff mag back in the day it was 1188 rwhp if I remember right and way over 1000 torque. For example let's say it's 1188/1050 peak with compound boost...loose the blower it'd probably do 1250/950 (not exactly just giving you an idea what I am talking about). Kind of strange how that works but at that point the supercharger is actually a restriction.
You're like Oprah. "YOU GET BOOST, YOU GET BOOST. EVERYBODY GETS BOOST!"
That was the inspiration
Exactly what I came to comment..
@@richardholdener1727 You didn't show how much the 3v made with 14.5 lbs boost... I saw the file was there when you opened the 10lbs boost though?? @ 7:18 ... Only asking because I'm debating single vs twin turbo on my 05 F150 (towing) 5.4 3v, doing MMR rods, timing guides/tensioners yada yada... I will probably just keep it under 10lbs, but nice to know the potential
The V10 modular guys are complaining now!😂
Damn straight.
Wheres the love?
Lmfao.
@@magdump7380 it's in your f250 . Not sure you want to boost that engine much over 10 psi.
@@robsorgdrager8477 pop sum plugs out much??..🤣😂
@@eric63377 as an owner of a 2V V10 with 257k miles i haven't blown a single plug.
As a guy whose building a 3v I really appreciate this! It’s hard to find content or information about the 3v considering it’s short lifespan. Good video!
Well just remember to anti-sieze the sparkplugs so they actually come out.
Scootermagoo I luckily have the revised heads from late 2008 and 2009 models. Thanks for the warning tho lol.
How many thousands of them are still running. There 3 of them same color and package as my FX4 in a town of 8000 people, dozens of 2 and4wd running around. Not to shabby for a motor with 'problems'!! Mine just tripped 250000! I tow a 5400lb dry weight camper. Car trailers, gonna pull an old tractor soon!!
I'm building one as well. And aftermarket parts is super hard to find. No intakes or fuel rails.
@@Bugsidious CPE or an old JPC if you can find one (and have no budget) ford performance is also good but if youre going to see boost pressures in excess of 20 I would just run the Jegs intake. Fore Innovations also has complete fuel systems available.
Finally! Mod motors. Yay!
I believe he has a couple extra videos if you are interested.
ahh yes i cant wait to see what they do on an electric motor
Big bang 4.6 2v, 3v, and 4v. Lets get it on!
Awesome, thank you Richard! Please do a follow up with the 3V and VCT.
Please keep the 4.6 vids coming. I've learned so much about my 2v from you!
Thank you for the Ford stuff. 👍
You look like a hot climate Santa Claus, delivering boost to all the little engines of the world.
Santa Boost!
This man, what a legend. Keep it up, I show your channel to anyone I can. Fantastic information and wonderful dialogue!
Honestly I liked the power curves of the 2v and 3v... they were much smoother and made more low end torque
That's what they do lol
Love my 4.6 2valve.
imagine if the vvt wasnt locked out
For a car, i'd rather have the 4 valve. For a truck, maybe a 3 valve. If i was going 2 valve, i'd rather get an LS to have better aftermarket support. Horsepower knows no branding.
@@sepg5084the mod motors have endless aftermarket support and with forged internals sky's the limit no reason for an ls. Buy a gm if you wanna build an ls.
Not sure if the thumbs down is from a 2v or 3v 6.8 V-10 owner. Neat test, the 3v engines rarely get any love.
V10 would be cool to see on the dyno
thanks im a lil 2 valve guy,thats a lota juce from i lil 281 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
New t-shirt: Boost makes everybody happy.
Man, that 3-valve was torquey!
Im still shocked by that torque plateau
Love the 3V stuff!
Fuck ya! Now we just need the V10 and it will be full circle. Just kidding Rich, love your videos. I have learned a lot from every single 2v mod video you have produced. Your Non Pi shortblock with PI ported heads and cams combo is by far my favorite.
So I remember doing some research in the past and the 57 trim t04e turbo's actually tend to make less power than the 50 trims with all else being equal. The inducer on the compressor is slightly larger but the exducer is the same. I'd almost bet if you did the math and plot them out on a compressor map the 50 trim would have been a better choice to stick with all around, I would've enjoyed seeing back to back with the exact same turbo setup.
I love the vice grips. Lol. Modern technology still relies on those handy dandy devices
Can't get over the amount of hp from that old 2 valve, at 2 bar.
2v arent nearly as bad as ppl make them out to be. You got guys out here in stock 2v gts from the 90s getting gapped by coyotes and everyone says oh they suck theyre slow...with the right mods they can make some power and it dont take nearly as many mods as most people think it does. I think the power is very respectable. The 4v is def the king of the older mod motors and even the coyote is a 4v. The gt500s were also 4v albiet 5.4 and a punched out version of the same engine the 5.8. I love me some 4vs but i also realize the potential of the 2v when done right and i respect them and they sound great.
Bring on the 3V vct love. In 5.4 size ;)
No. Even Richard can't love the 3 valve 5.4
@@Prestiged_peck its the red headed step child lol
@@mrchemistrycow more like the red headed step child's red headed step child
Came back to watch this video again, showing my brother. I'm finding similar turbos out there in that t04e 57 trim and 60 trim just wondering what that aspect ratio was on those 57 trim? For me this video won't get old
Thank you! Just what I wanted to see..love your videos, straight to the point and on the right level.
Love your channel. Currently have a 3v 4.6 Mustang GT. What cams and head work were done? Or did you run boost at 10.5lbs with stock internals, stock heads on the 3v 4.6?
WE RAN BOOST STOCK AND MOFIFIED ON A 3V
In this video specifically, for the 3v, it was stock heads, cams, piston rods, with 65lb injectors with long tubes? I wanna make sure i got that correct. I would love to replicate this in my 3v for a while before i get a 4v 5.4 and rebuild it and go with boost.
Love to see what you could do with a sleeved and turbo'd 5.4L or 5.8L Ford Mod Motor. Not too many have done that as sleeved Coyotes are pretty hot right now.
I'm not sure why you think that - when the GT500 came out with the 4v GT head 5.4l in '07, they've been boosted up to and well past 1000WHP ever since
@@RyTrapp0 Big difference between a sleeved/ turbo'd 5.4/5.8 vs early GT500 with a 4L Whipple.
Sleeved Predator has dynoed 2930 whp, won overall Sick Week and ran 6.26 @ 227mph on radials
Didn't realize that to4e would make that kinda power, good to know
oh hell yes! this is the perfect video for tonight! Thanks Rich!
Now let’s do a Big Bang 4.6 2v PI junk yard engine. Keep up the good work love your stuff.
Friend did that on accident with the wrong spring in the WGA, it went lean and made 870 and then spun the main right next to the redline. Boost pegged around 29psi if my memory serves.
Bought your book a few years ago on the 4.6/5.4 building HP on the dyno when I had my 06 P71 Crown Vic. I never did get it boosted however I did put the Trick Flow heads on it when they came out, I remember in your book how you mentioned how it would be great if someone stepped up and made an aftermarket head for the 2 valve. Along with the 262 cams and some other tweaks I got it running pretty good for an NA 2 valve. Love those big ol Crown Vics, going to get another and put some boost to this one.
If I complain enough-people listen
I’m thinking about doing truck flow heads and cams on my crown Vic
Turminator engines, were underrated by, 50 hp and 50 lb feet of torque! Looks it up!
15-20 at most.
I don't have to look it up-I ran plenty of them
They made almost their rated power at the tires. I've seen one test that tossing the factory airbox aside made more than 400 at the tires on a stock car. It was also a magazine test car, so was maybe better than most, but they could deliver the goods.
@@timothybayliss6680 they typically made 350-360 whp stock. Ran like they had 320whp. I have a 03 cobra motor in a notch with a ported blower that makes 468whp 471wtq
@@HioSSilver1999 I haven't looked into cobras in years. From what every dork that has one says is they have a long break in period, and will continue to increase in power until almost 30k miles. The most I've seen from someone claiming to have a stock car is 381 SAE on a mustang dyno. That seems really high to me, like more than a c7 corvette. If you look at the mph these cars could hit in the 1/4, they were making at least 430hp the whole time.
Would have liked to have seen how the boost to drive pressure ran on these setups.
I would like to see the same test done with superchargers on the 5.4 2v and 3v
Just made a request for 3v 5.4. low boost 6-8 lbs, for towing. My 5.4 3valve motor does a good job towing my 5400lb camper. No complaints. But 450-500 ft.lb. of touque @6-7 lbs of boost would be awesome. The old dogs got 250000 miles on it, but still going strong. If I decided to freshin it up it be nice to have more power. My phazers are locked out, all the fixed done.
@@markmccarty727 I know a centri blower isnt known for torque production at low rpms but it is a bolt on option for boost with a 5.4. It would have a rising boost curve but still produce a lot more torque than stock.
@@madmod Yes, and it's an easy installation, but it's not really a load sensing application. My 5.4 does a really good job, and I'm nowhere near maxing out the tow capacity. But just like racing, a little more is always better. Probably could get 550-600ft. lbs. Of torque really easy with 70 mm turbo. I think 500 would more than I need. Getting onto the interstate pulling a camper is tuff with some of the short ramps and NO acceleration lane!! Hardly ever do that, but a little more power is never a bad thing
@@markmccarty727 The benefit to even a centri blower is the fact you can pulley it up to get into boost more quickly while also avoiding any exhaust issues with having to feed a turbo. You will still come into boost very early with a vortech and a pulley. Should be able to support 500+ ft/lbs no problem.
@@madmod Still dragging it along. To do that ud still have to make arrangements for bleeding boost off by the time you get it spinning faster. I know, I want alot for next to nothing. In reality, a 4.6 with a properly sized turbo would probably be more efficient. But I'd still be pulling that big ass transmission and rear end! I'm out waiting on back surgery and got to much free time, but not able to put it to use!! It works fine now, and very versatile. 6lbs. Of boost @2500 would really great though!
My guy! Why didn’t you make these videos years ago! Great stuff so much information.
He used to do testing for muscle mustangs and fast ford magazine back in the day that is actually where the 4v portion of the test came from they did a boost comparison on that engine he mentioned in the video they did twin screw, stock blower, centrifugal blower and these twins. They were always doing cool tests and build up like these in those mags back in the day man I miss mm&ff mag going to have to get another subscription. Not the same as it once was but still a good mag for ford guys with lots of info.
Great test. Boost always makes power. No surprises their. Factory Ecu would be interesting.
Greetings from Brazil!! Thank you for all you're videos, they are very informative!!!!!
hello Brazil
So why didn't you do the pi heads with the 270 cams? Like you did with the comparison of the pi vs non pi?
Great video!!!! You guys could use a fueltech ems that controls the variable cam timming.
So Rich, I'm a big Honda guy. I have a 612 whp EJ8 built LSVTEC turbo. I also have a 6th gen Accord that's about to get a J32A swap with a 6 speed manual. What I'd really like to see is what a single or twin turbo kit would do on a J32A2. I know that you're big on the B16 and B18, but I'm really interested in seeing what the stock J series can do. My stock J32A was rated at 260 hp and mine has headers, a full exhaust with dual mufflers, an Injen cold air intake, and a single stage 50 hp dry nitrous kit.
I have a good friend doing a J swap in an NSX-I will have videos
Do you happen to have data a buick 455 we could see? Or the data on the LS that greg brown put the smallblock ford hemi heads on in Hot Rod site, i believe you were the photographer on that motor
I didn't do the photos for that and I do have a Buick 455 on loan from David Freiburger
@@richardholdener1727 is it the one him and steve had in the chevelle
I would like to see the same comparison but with the 5.4
Was the 3 Valve with stock pistons and rods?
all stock
@@richardholdener1727 Wow! I wonder how these stock 3v can't survive on the street/track over say 500 HP? Seems like in the real world with exhaust restrictions, real driveline, tire torque, axles/transmissions and twisting forces tweaking everything back up the drivetrain they tend to fail at much lower power levels.
Do you think it's realistic to say that with an engine dyno (due to how smooth the resistance is) that a "test car" might have to reduce the power at the crank by say 30% to have some sort of safety factor? Interested in your thoughts on this! Like in the same way that launching a stick shift car can break stuff at way lower power levels than an auto does.
Keep up the great videos and showing us what's possible - Love it!
@@tomstamatakos8027 500 whp. These engines are straight crank hp
Richard is the Oprah of boost.
A 2v making 714 hp, amazing! 🤤🤤🤤
This is an engine dyno with no exhaust and no accessories pulling hp from it and no driveline loss. In a car this combo might see 600 at the wheels on a good day which isnt bad just wanted to put into perspective that this 700+hp is nowhere near 700 WHEEL hp which is what most people refer to in the automotive aftermarket industry. It isnt that hard to make power with a 2v people just repeat what everyone else says that they can't do it. With stock rods they can't reliably hold much above 400-450 rwhp but you can get a forged rotating assembly for like 2 grand and then the skies the limit basically. That is the only thing holding a 2v back from making big power. It won't make as much as a 4v with equal mods and boost but it can def make plenty of power.
@@midnight347You’re not wrong, but how much horsepower do you think a properly sized exhaust costs? A proper exhaust will have less than 1psi of back pressure (not pre-turbo). I don’t believe the power loss will show up on a dyno.
Interesting torque curve on the 4V. Any particular reason why it’s wavy and not as linear?
maybe tuning
Do you remember what size turbos were offered with this HP Performance kit? I have this kit on a 96 cobra right now. I think the paperwork that I have stated that the turbos are rated at 700-800 horsepower. The A/R on the compressor housing is 0.5. Wondering what trim they are.
46mm and 57 mm
Thanks for the 3v content! My 07 3v is tired and I’m debating whether to rebuild & boost or swap for a 460 or maybe a boosted 351w like the 1k hp version you did in another video.
Just do forged internals on the 3v and add boost. They can make a ton of power no reason to go with a different engine unless you just don't wanna deal with having an engine built which is ideal honestly for longevity if you actually care about being able to run it like its supposed to be ran and still get plenty of life out of it.
Pretty crazy how much power a couple of disco potatoes made on those little engines. Very cool. Thanks Richard.
These turbos are quite a bit bigger than a gt2860rs. The highest mass flow I've seen is 48lb/m where the potato will only flow about 35lb/m. When I saw the near 1000hp, that's about all the air these turbos can move. You'll never find a potato that makes more than about 400 at the crank, thats with race gas or e85, the compressor is just too small
So the 3v hangs with the 4v for much less money and at a more useable rpm range?
When you start revving that 4v to 8k with stand alone it really comes to life assuming you have the right cams and intake manifold to make power there.
This 4v is a terminator motor only has 8.5:1 compression vs high 9s for the 3v that also makes a difference.
Hey Richard, I just bought a complete 4.6 motor with aluminum block (RF 1L2E) and PI heads for 300 dollars. I think it came out of a 2001 explorer. It has stage 2 NA cams from Cushman Motorsports and I am afraid they will not work with a turbo because of the duration. It also has the 6 bolt crank but I will have to upgrade the rods and pistons since I am wanting to go single turbo. What combo would you recommend without breaking the bank?
use those cams with boost-they work fine
Richard Holdener thanks for replying love your content.
Hi Richard, I've always enjoyed reading your articles back in the Muscle Mustangs and fast Fords days and watching your videos, they are a wealth of information. I was wondering if you have any experience with forced induction modular engines running on LPG auto propane? It doesnt seem like there is much info out there regarding forced induction and LPG as a fuel source. Are there adequate engine control systems available to run LPG on a twin turbo or supercharged modular ford engine? can the stock ECU control LPG injectors (Im wondering if the ECU from a vehicle that came from Ford with the "gaseous engine prep package" might be set up this way?
no lpg testing
Ford stuff 👍👍
Richard, I'm installing a Crown Vic frame and drive train under a '71 Ford F100 body. This is done a lot but I wanted to know what I was getting with the 2006 CV (not a P71 police car) engine... were these the 2 valve engines? Would they be like the non PI mustang 4.6s? What can I do to bump up the power on these? Thanks in advance, this would be a great video someday to help all us swap guys out. Thanks, love the videos and the knowledge gained. Clay
AN 06 SHOULD BE A pi
@@richardholdener1727 - so a PI 2 valve, right?
Great video Richard. I would like to see you test the Hellion twin turbo set up on the gen 3 hemi. It uses the factory 6.4 exhaust manifolds.
I have run turbo Hemi stiff with the stock (SRT8 and RAM) exhaust-the SRT8 works well
What cams did you use in the 3valve engine naturally aspirated? I saw you bumped the injectors to 65 lbs.
would've been nice to see a run with the 4v boosted setup on a 5.4 lincoln navigator motor
check out the 4V 5.4L turbo video that is up
@@richardholdener1727 found it, thats a very nice unit
I like the drive by Irwin conversion
Also a test of an Ly6 with VVT cam phaser tuning results would be awesome.
All Ford guys please help!! Have 4.6 running on passenger side of motor only?? All 8 coils work an injectors?? Left side never gets hot
what computer did you use for the 3V?
Great video 💯
sooooooo....what about the V10's....2 valves specifically. there a freaking everywhere. would love to see what it can do anywhere from 5-15lbs of boost...
What about doing a Triton V10
Twin turbos on my Mark 8! The Original Cobra engine.
Have you ever considered the VW 12 valve VR6? Pretty simple motor and has a fairly stout bottom end from the factory. They were initially designed to be a diesel if I’m not mistaken. They love boost.
I've done some VW stuff-even set a Land Speed Record in a Jetta Hybrid
Richard Holdener is there a video up on the Jetta? Would love more of the odd ball builds and Vw vr6 or a j35 out of a odyssey.
4.6 really came alive on that 2v.
When you modify the ford modular motors( mechanically) is there a way to make adjustments to the ECU at home or a program you buy, or how are you setting up the tune ?
Thank you for sharing Richard.
we use a stand along ecu and tune it
Check out HPTuners
you should do a stock pi 2v block with non pi stock heads with a twin turbo .. .. so a budget guy with a both engines could basically do a budget NA build for 1 car using the non pi block w the pi heads + cam upgrades.. and the pi block with the non pi heads along with a cheap twin 50 or 57 turbo kit for car 2,, + needed ecu and fuel injector-pump upgrades ..aiming for the 600 ish hp mark... mainly bringing this up because i have 2 cars with 95-96 year 4.6 2valve and a 01 4.6 2v...all lincoln tc
non PI heads are not good
@@richardholdener1727 my thought is a lower compression motor on the cheap $$ to make more power under boost pressure.. ( which is due to more total volume being pressurised on the intake stroke) provided you have the turbo well sized/..ect for the build. However if the non pi heads are junk then ???
Y2da420 i see ya, good for the goose & the gander - na vs boosted and /or compressed ???
Now I'm confused, like mechanical variable duration and the " open valve " concept!
@@Y2daT420It’s not the year 2000 man. Our fuels are better these days. High compression high boost on E85 and let it eat man.
Why didn’t you change the cams in the 3v also
I feel bad for the guys with 5 valves being left out... well not really...
Wish I could bounce a few dozen question off of you but feel like I get a better grasp on the flow-power dynamic with each of your videos. Maybe you can dig into the cam spec stuff a little more? I get the impacts of static compression and head flow in a static state, but really feel lost in understanding what those cam specs mean to outcomes and how the variations in cam specs impact everything. Seems like you can really "adjust" dynamic compression with the cam set up with changes in lobe sepration but how much do such changes matter?
Really appreciate your work.
cam timing is important but whatever the change in the power curve from cam timing-boost just adds to that
I know this video is old, but it is useful for me. Starting a new project, F100/Crown Vic swap. I got a 2011 Romeo 2V PI engine and I want to make cheap power on it. From what I can see, turbos are definitely the ticket to cheap power, especially those ebay gt45 turbos (I plan on doing a single to save money). I am completely new to the 4.6 motor. Other than ring gap, what needs to be done to support a decent amount of boost? I know the 2v had forged internals -- what could the stock internals take?
edit - I meant to say I know the 2v (In this video) had forged, not cast like stock, internals.
Richard,
I know it’s a bit old and probably at this point a bit played out.
But....
Can you give us a 5.4 2v mustang intake shootout with the adapters?
What would be amazing is if you obtained a hardballer intake to compare as well.
Might need to come to the dark side and use a real ecu like a Motec or Adaptronic to control variable valve timing
Or megasquirt
@@austindoud273 That's what they call my ex wife.
Or just lock the cams in a more reasonable spot, or get a custom grind with a proper ICL for locked cam timing. The TFS 2v adjustable crank sprockets work well on a 3v.
@@markrein7282 the vvt is key on these engines !
@@andrewslagle1974 Agreed with a N/A version. Once you go boost, it is barely worth the effort to risk the loss of valvetrain control with the stock phasers. At least you can now piece together a reliable system where you can use the VCT, not like 10 years ago.
Wow. I would take any of those with turbos in a fox body
If you could’ve put different pistons and cams in on a budget which ones would you choose?
we ran comp cams and lots of forged pistons that work
Right on
Richard you need a Haltech elite so you can run the variable cam timing.
Mark Thomas I think these are tests from long ago , I’m sure Holly’s new ones would run it now
Will the Holley efi for the coyote adapt to the three valve fords or the 6.2 ford? Thanks again for showing all your results.
we can run a Mod Motor with a Holley
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks but will it handle cam timing on 3v or 6.2, i was also curious if the ford racing pack for the coyote would run the 3v, 6.2 including cam timing
Would like to see a 3v v10 run
Thanks for the mod motor stuff.
I see a big range of price on turbos.
Are there turbos that I should stay away from ??
I have not found any that went bad immediately-make sure to pre oil any turbo you install
I saw an odd post on Facebook of a guy trying to use 3V exhaust manifolds on a 2v PI 4.6...I have yet to find any posts on any of the forums like TCCoA showing the mods to make it fit (like welding cast iron to make holes for the 2V studs) and dyno comparisons.
I doubt there would be any gain to that
Awesome
What does the 2v 3v 4v 89v make on motor
Great content here Sir Holdener
Can you do a solo video on a 3v 4.6
I'm looking for a after market fuel rail system for the 5.4l 3v. I haven't been able to locate one for my 2005 f150 project. It's for a supercharger application, so that I can run a return system and a regulator. Thanks in advance for the help.
No idea
2v 3v 4v vs LS and LT which one you taking ??
I test them all
No wonder that Koenigsegg bolted two Rotrex blowers on a 4V in the beginning
Why no second test on 3V with more boost?
That's my dream to see my Lincoln Town Car EXECUTIVE L with twin turbos.
So I know it's a weird combo but have you ever run a twin charged 4v engine? For those who don't know it's a super turbo or a compound cobra.
yes we did that on an 03 Cobra
@@richardholdener1727 have I missed the video somehow? If not I always find that mind experiment super cool. I'm actually searching for a cobra to build into a twin charged car.
10lbs of boost on the 3v as well?
Did u test the 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost? What do u think about thise engine?
only on the chassis dyno-they were impressive
I ran the big camshaft with 11 have motor it ran good I also had a good head I'm 215 darts the old ones not that
I wish you would state what fuel you are using. 91,93?
race fuel with boost
@@richardholdener1727 so like 110?
Generally youre not gonna pick up much at low end with the vvt, just mainly past 4800 with the stock cams. Stock call has vvt zeroed till then at wot
then why do you loose so much bottom end when they are locked out? and wouldnt 90% of all the phazers rarley if ever get to the point of being utilized in normal dail driviving making there failures less common?
whats the difference between a cobra 4v and an aviator 4v? Just built bottom end?
intake and possibly cams, not sure on compression
@@richardholdener1727Thanks!
I thought the heads were different too
great content once again!
Have you ever tested a compound boosted 4.6? Hellion sells a bolt on kit for cobras that I’m super interested in
We did long ago with HP Performance
Richard Holdener like blowing through the stock eaton supercharger?
@@trevorvaughn5562 it makes alot of power and a ton of torque but it will make less peak power than it would with the turbos alone which is why people who are using them to make big power and race them use turbos and an earlier na cobra manifold. It will still make a ton of power and even more torque. Seen em do it in mm&ff mag back in the day it was 1188 rwhp if I remember right and way over 1000 torque. For example let's say it's 1188/1050 peak with compound boost...loose the blower it'd probably do 1250/950 (not exactly just giving you an idea what I am talking about). Kind of strange how that works but at that point the supercharger is actually a restriction.
Stock internals??
They should've used e85. Very few guys wanna run that expensive 114 to 118 s h I t. And e85 runs cool. No intercooler needed usually.
Bloodviking