How Good Was Mogg Fanatic, Actually? | A Deep Dive Into Magic: the Gathering's History
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2024
- #mtg #magicthegathering #cardgame
Mogg Fanatic was once one of the best one drops in all of Magic: the Gathering. In this video, I explain what enabled the Fanatic to be such a powerhouse, and what has led to it to it becoming a fringe playable.
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I'm planning on being here to watch the premiere with all of you! One of the perks of changing my upload time.
Out of curiosity, I normally get notifications of your videos and watch them immediately. This one, it seems, the notification came 16 hours late. Was it a TH-cam channel member release? (Maybe I should switch my patreon to youtube?)
@@derekcline950 No, I just changed my upload time to 11 a.m. ET. I did use the premiere feature, but it wasn't members only. It may have messed up notifications though, I guess.
Ahh Mogg Fanatic. It and Sakura-Tribe Elder are creatures that used to be much better when damage used the stack, and it's a really fun piece of MtG history
oh man, steve must have been absolutely miserable to attack into when damage was on the stack
As someone who did not play when damage on the stack was a thing, I am excited to learn about it in this video, which is apart of a new series, which I am really enjoying. Thank you Nizzahon.
I played MTG from 1999-2004 which is, yes, right at the time when they change the rules, and oh boy this card was a pain.
The biggest culprit for 'damage on the stack' shenanigans is Morphling. Spike creature tribe is also another huge headache but morphling is far more popular and tournament-worthy. By itself morphling can get up to 5/1 OR 0/X where X is any amount you can spend.
Mogg's flavor text and art still make me smile
Can you do White Knight and Black Knight? Those two were only uncommon, yet very powerful for creatures of the era. Plus they've gotten so many cards based on them over the years.
I love this new series! I mostly experience Magic through the lens of commander and occasionally draft, so getting an insight into just how powerful some of these cards that barely registered with me is very interesting and cool.
Glad you enjoy it!
Sharpshooter untaps for any creature dying. So you can literally clear every 1 toughness creature on the board . With goblin bombardment
I was excited for whichever card won this week's poll. My first ever tournament win came from a sligh deck with both fanatic and the pup. I also loved ball lightening.
Mogg Fanatic is a card close to my heart. When I first encountered it was at a LGS tournament where it of course was the most rules interaction I've seen in my life. And I still hold that the old stack rules suck.
Why it fascinates me is because it is emblematic for why the rules change was so good. Sure, a number of cards are less powerful, but now there's tension in the cards, good tension. Its old utility gets center stage again, and it brings out my inner Spike (which is rare) - do I win best by attacking with this guy, trading, blocking and pinging, or just pinging? While it saw very little tournament results after the rules change, it was emblematic of a real skill test that was a super inncious and subtle design, but had so many small possibilities for gaining that tiny advantage in the game that would tip you towards winning, with a harsh choice. Even including it in your deck is a gamble since it gets outpaced so quickly as the turns pass.
It's one of the places where power creep saddens me. RIP king. I still use you when building for the kitchen table. 1 damage on a creature sac remains surprisingly useful.
My playgroup still plays with Damage On The Stack. Very fun. Also Mana Burn in 60 card formats.
You are awesome.
Loving the new format sir. You've single handedly taught me how to understand and appreciate limited and relit the spark in me to play Magic again. I played from almost day one. With a dozen time warps and as many lotuses as we could get our hands on. My favorite card for some reason was Royal Assasin in the early days. We were young and in my teens I lost interest and basically gave away what today would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars lol. Back then though the game was teetering and very much feeling the squeeze of an expanding CCG/TCG market. It's so cool to see where the game has gone, as I left right after Mercadian Masks dropped. Keep up the great content my fellow good man. I'll keep watching and recommending.
Liking the series so far. It's nice to be able to dive deeper on some of these cards and it makes for a good complimentary series to the Top 10's. Looking forward to more.
Glad you like them!
Thanks for actually talking about the early days. Mogg Fanatic is pretty much the poster boy for damage on the stack but I feel like most people tend to leave out that it (and the whole game really) was not originally designed with damage on the stack in mind. I wonder if they would have printed the fanatic when they did if damage had always gone on the stack.
I also wonder how a creature that's nearly equivalent to how the fanatic used to work would fare today. I imagine there's still plenty of work to be done by a creature like that.
Goblin Arsonist, originally from Rise of the Eldrazi, was clearly intended to be a Mogg Fanatic that worked with the new rules. It's a 1/1 that deals one damage to any target when it dies. Like the Fanatic, it can take out an X/2 or two X/1s. But it can't sacrifice itself any time, and your opponent can just let it get in for one damage every turn to avoid that death trigger. As far as I know, it never saw any constructed play.
Waiting for the episode for Morphling! But Fanatic was so great at the end of '90!
I love this series! Seeing both the card and the environments it nourished, understanding its related combos and synergies, is pretty funny and educating, training the logical engineering-like mind and understanding even more about balance.
Awesome work!😊
can confirm - as someone who played fast red and red land destruction back then, I was either playing with the Fanatic or playing against it.
Never caught a premiere before! Loving this new series :) I've not played MtG since Mirrodin block, but I think I've seen every single Nizza video - such wonderful content :)
In Ravnica Allegiance, Footlight Fiend, a 1/1 devil for a R/B hybrid, has the ability, "when this creature dies, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player." I know it's a stretch, but if it's killed in combat by an X/2, it can essentially operate as Mogg Fanatic did before the rule change
Just put together a commander goblin deck and had to include this little guy. Great video!
I am really excited to see more of this series! I always enjoy when you get into the mechanics of how the cards functioned in the metagame when the referred to cards were at their height of power and usefulness.
I had a very small MtG playgroup, and we were far from rules experts, so I still remember how sceptical the others were when I found out how Mogg Fanatic could abuse the stack.
I used to play a lot of super casual kitchen table magic with one of my best friends. There were many, many games where I'd block his X/1 with a Sakura-Tribe Elder, put damage on the stack, then sac Elder to grab a land. My buddy would put up resistance most of the time and rant about how "that rule is dumb". He thought I was making shit up 😂 He stopped playing a few years later, but I still made a special point to inform him about damage no longer using the stack. He seemed pleased with the news 😂
It always amazing me to learn when the rules change happened. I started playing around the end of Alara block, right before M10 came out. Of course I played with only one friend who was also new to the game and the stack was just something we didn't understand at the time, or even really know was a thing for handling spells. It was still a long time before that knowledge was made clear to me but it's still fascinating that I technically played in a time when combat damage used the stack.
Maybe it's a bit off theme to this series' but perhaps you could also talk about mechanic changes that completely changed cards viabilities? First thing that comes to mind are split cards. There was this deck that used expertise cards free spell clause to cast the big side of split cards. It'd probably tie together nicely when the same mechanic was exploited with modal two faced cards. I just think documenting these kind of rules changes and how they affect the game would be interesting.
The early 2000s was when I started playing, and yeah, if you didn’t know how damage on the stack worked at that time, you learned REEAALLL quickly
I still use Mogg Fantastic in my Legacy Flash-less Hulk/Flash deck in the Reveillark combo.
Please keep up this series! It's so interesting
This format video is great. Please do more!!!!
Mr. Fantastic, how I love thee. You were in my first deck along with Keldon warlord, mountain goat, shock, raging goblins, bloodlust and a few others.
These videos are great. Please keep doing them. Genuinly love listening to these while doing chores.
The satisfaction you get when you sac the fanatic and then cast Rakdos, lord of riots, oh man!
I run 4 copies of Mogg Fanatic in my Kamikaze goblins deck. Essentially it's a mono red deck filled with one drop goblins that all have advantageous abilities along side cards such as Goblin Grenade and Howling mine for a fast paced sacrifice deck. It swings in with lots of hasty combat damage, finishes the opponent with direct sacrifice damage and can deal out creature removal in a pinch.
As an mtg old head (mirage, baby!) I ADORE this series so far!
I have so many fond memories with this small fanatic goblin.
Love these new history videos!
was hoping to see a shoutout to fanatical firebrand in here. i started playing around m19, so it reminds me of the good old days.
hope to see more of this series.
Still see this fella in the Premodern format. My boy can still kill some Birds.
We called him Mogg Fantastic in the early 00s. ☺️
I'm really liking this series so far, I hope we'll get a lot more episodes!
I hope these do well. I love this new series. Keep up the good work!
Glad you like them!
I love this style of content! Keep em comin
I like this new series a lot, I hope it's popular enough to keep going.
I think this series is interesting! I hope it does well & keeps going!
To answer Rosewater's question, I've always imagined the fanatic, based on the artwork and flavor text, to fight someone and as it's about to die, throws the jar as a last ditch effort to do that extra point of damage.
glad this video introduced me to the modern goblins combo list gonna check it out
I like this new series! Keep it up!
The damage on the stack also led to Sakura tribe elder being outright OP
Damage not going on the stack still messes with my brain. It was an integral part of the game's combat and added more depth to it. I do understand why it had to go though. To newer players, it felt like some sort of secret technique only the pros knew about. It was also difficult to explain and convince people at times, because - like MaRo said - it was just super unintuitive. It's probably better this way, but part of my brain still says "sac after damage".
"added more depth to it" maro actually addressed this in the full article iirc. The problem is that it's fake depth; there is always the same one correct choice. "Should I put damage on the stack and then sacrifice for value? always yes." The change means there is a strategic decision to make. "Should I assign combat damage or sacrifice for value? depends on the situation".
Sure thing, for me it was a part of the game, damage in the stack, mana burn, "retro frame". I can't believe that was like 20 years ago.
dubbed "Mogg Fantastic" back in the day, you just started every mono-red gob deck with four of this guy and four goblin lackeys.
Love this new series.
Can't wait for the lightning bolt episode.
Keep up the great work.
9:17 You cannot attack with the copies in this combo, since they'd be tapped (they tap themselves as Kiki to make the next copy). You even tap the last one to make a copy of Harbinger instead. Which is why you need Fanatic on top, to actually deal the damage.
Such great artwork too.
Been waiting for this! Mog fanatic was the bane of my existence!
Do Spiritmonger next
Anyone else use magic sets to remember what year it was or what you were doing at a specific time?
Love these videos and those like it! False Swipes has created a really good format.
I feed the algorythm because these videos rock.
Lots of warm memories about this card😂
This is a nice series.
thanks Brom
I hope the lil guy gets reprinted into standard one day, I'd love to see how it would perform nowadays given it's still probably strong enough for the format?
I was wondering could you do a hypothetical limited review of some of the older sets, it would be fun to see it of alpha and ice age. Even if that format would probably never happen, but you never know.
Time for a true legend. Masticore.
hell yeah!!!
Raging Goblin still raging about how many cards have power crept him
It was the #1 1 drop for a time. Hands down.
Ah, Mogg Fanatic, the original Ragavan
I'm all for you replacing a ton 10 once a week with this series these are enjoyable
I wonder how good mogg fanatic with first strike would be. I feel like that's what a modern version of the card would be printed like.
Still an automatic 4 of in multiple Premodern decks even with the modern rules.
Interesting stuff, especially with the details about damage rule changes kindof screwing the card. Think that there's enough of that kind of thing to make a whole video? Maybe "Top 10 Cards That Lost Their Value to Rule Changes"?
I miss combat damage going on the stack.
Please do a how good was Gaea's Cradle.
He's still fantastic in premodern
I wonder if a callback that gave it first strike would give the same power level?
False swipe gaming would be curious about this.
Funny thing is if mog fantic still worked as it did way back. It would be a good pick vs ragavan
Mogg Fantastic
Even if you don't make this weekly, you should at least keep doing them every once in a while
What limited grade would you give the Fanatic these days? That could be something interesting to consider for each card in the series.
would depend on the rest of the format. In Wilds of Eldraine, it would’ve probably been a premium 1 drop because so many good creatures had 1 toughness there and red was a strong color. In Outlaws of Thunder Junction, it would probably be C- at best because of how big the premium creatures are, and red is very mediocre in OTJ. It is an instant speed crime on a stick, though!
How was Royal Assassin actually? Because when we discovered you could straight up kill an attacking creature, it had to be banned at our lunchroom table.
have you ever done a history of a format before? LIke lets say about pioneer and maybe a history of the rules and winning decks in said format?
(I don't know anything about pioneer and it's rules and I thought it would be a great way to learn)
Years ago, but 201X. i got to experience "damage on the stack" with a commander game. How Deathtouch, Infect, Trample, and having a high power was seemingly never a concern, it's really dumb to see your 5/5, and your 3/3 get "deleted" by a single assigned damage with of course the rest of the damage going to your face. it wasn't supposed to work like that at the time, and it still doesn't today. Corrupt judge gonna be corrupt. But of course, the rules change is because "Mogg Fanatic" not a weird "voltron" strategy of keywords.
Mogg Fanatic is a four-of in one of the best Premodern decks: Sligh.
I've murdered so many Birds of Paradise with that card. I hope they give it the retro foil treatment in some rehashed master set.
It was a star in the casual goblin sacrifice deck I made my wife
Sling-Gang Commander took over from Siege-Gang Commander? One mana cheaper is better than the extra direct damage?
The ability also costs no mana, that's a big difference.
The fuck ragavan gang 🤙🤘
Even if the rules change nerfed him, he's always got it in my heart
Too good.
This series is great but start on the more splashy on your face cards that will attract more people. Like tolarian academy or jitte.
0:25 the fanatic kills ragavan and darcy. I rest my case....
With damage on the stack
Old border cards look so much better
My boy 😭
I'd say it was the best one drop easily before the rule change. Playing around it was just not really a thing most of the time back then.
Since pretty much everyone watching this is familiar with your MTG top-tens, it would be cool if you’d mention how many points it has, maybe even point out “it has about as many points as…”
No real need to say how good Jackal Pup was when the strictly superior versions of it run amok in Modern. A shift in the rules and no "damage on the stack" really hurt the Fanatic otherwise I suspect you could still see it played. These days Red does have call backs to it with the various one drops that deal damage when they die which is better with the current rules or that can be sacrificed for damage but that has lost some of its bite.
I wonder if False Swipe Gaming sees these and laughs to himself.
I came in on 6th Edition.