SIZE MATTERS-PICK THE RIGHT LS TURBO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- LS TURBO SELECTION-FULL RESULTS. 2 TURBOS & 2 TEST MOTORS! BIG TURBO vs SMALL TURBO. Check out this comparison test between a cheap GT45 turbo and a larger 80-mm Comp turbo on an LS3 stroker. Also tested, the same GT45 turbo vs S475 from Summit Racing on a smaller 5.3L. In the end, it comes down to response vs power, so choose your turbo wisely (but go a little big).
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This is one of those important conversations to have with one's son.
"Don't worry about the size of your snail, son"
Its not the size of the dog in the fight.
Its the size of the fight in the dog.
Dad: birds and the bees son
Son: dad is the bird the summit turbo and the bee is the eBay turbo?
Dad: I love boy.
Top tier comment 🤟🏻
That, and the advice to always buy a modern 4V DOHC VVT engine.
I love how the little turbo makes 765 hp/ 815 ft lbs, and Richard is saying, "listen thats cool, but just go with the 1100 hp, unit, it's what you really want"
I'm not even trying to aim pass 550😂
Buy a GT45. Get bored.
Get a second one and go twins ;)
If you max out a thousand hp turbo,what happens when you add a second?🤔How much more power could you gain ?
good plan
@@sixx6sixx107 Doesn't matter how much more... its not enough. Its never enough.
@@SweatyFatGuy that's understandable...but will it make more than the one thousand hp turbo did alone 🤷🏾♂️
@@sixx6sixx107 To explain, compressors have a air flow curve and move x amount of air efficiently, so the general rule is 2cfm per horsepower, so 2000 cfm = 1000 hp roughly.. x 2 = 2000 hp, you run into a few limitations along the way mainly head flow and exhaust back pressure, not counting the engines ability to make.. 2000 hp. Boost in means exhaust out, so having to small of a exhaust turbine *which is what an exhaust side of a turbo is called btw* makes the turbo spool really fast but limits top end power. Having to big of an exhaust turbine means the turbo rpm doesn't get efficient till higher exhaust flow/rpm. You can put to big of an exhaust side on and make no boost. So it's a balancing act depending on how you use the engine combination. I know you used to be able to look up flow charts for turbos on various websites, you can look up a compressor side for an airflow you need for the power you want, say you want to make 1500 hp on a single turbo you know you will need 3000+ cfm to reach that number and you want to run the turbo about 75-80% flow for it to be efficient and have a bit left over for fine tuning, once you determine how big and which compressor side you need you start sizing the exhaust side. Exhaust size and flow can be used to tune where the compressor makes the boost you need in a rpm range that fits your needs. so a single 1500hp turbo need 1500hp worth of exhaust flow, on a twin turbo 1500hp setup the turbines are sized for 750hp each and are much smaller. The engine size determines how much exhaust can be made, more air in = more air out the bigger the engine the more power it can make given enough cylinder head to move that air. So... how do fast yah wanna go?
I love seeing this kind of information. Not every build is for a racecar, and this is the kind of info I am after for more of my streetcar build stuff.
Depends what you like. I would give up top end for instant gratification on the bottom. I don’t want to have to rev 6 or 7 k to get that hard pulling feeling.
You do see that you don't have to pick, right? Cover the right half of your screen and watch again.
Thank you Richard-love the tech videos!!!!
One of my favorite channels out there. Keep up the good work.
The bigger turbo even made more power down around 3000-3500rpm. I think a lot of us are reluctant to turn up the hp screw since we're limited by the strength of the block, trans, rear end etc.
Revs give power without more torque, but it costs money to have a free-revving engine.
That's a CRAZY N/A combination. Again, great information, keep up the hard work.
That is a very healthy naturally aspirated motor! Good test.
Man , i just love the sound of the small turbo spooling lol... thanks good video..
Great video! Thank you for what you do!
What you are saying makes perfect sense for a street engine. I did a Jeep 4.0 with a small turbo specifically for the response. It has a mild comp cam, an Edelbrock head and headers. I have a rpm ceiling of 5k. The turbo itself is a cheap T3/T4 hybrid off Ebay. It holds 10 psi from 2200 to 5000. Seems to work great for my application. Intended usage plays a big part in turbo selection also. The small one like you did would be great for a work truck. I use mine for offroad and the boost response is very beneficial.
I've got a hx40w on my 4.0. full boost doesn't happen till 3500 and I think it's perfect. Out of the picture till you dip into it, but the boost response is still excellent. It's downright fast.
As always I enjoy the videos Richard. How about a video for us newbies to boost on boost curves and electronic controllers versus regular.
Nice, I have an s475 for my 6.0, glad I picked the right one!
Good choice!
You did twin eBay GT-45s on a BBC, love to see that on the 416! How ‘bout no intercooler and blow through an 8-injector Sniper on a tall single plane with E-85? OTOH, a simple 4.8 or 5.3 with bolt on Holley or Hooker crossover turbo manifold and a single GT-45 or S475 with a similar blow through setup would be more in line with our budgets.
Coffe and morning class always makes a good day
Great video!!
A suggestion..,
You have all these different tests, 4.8 (?), 5.3, 416 cid and 454 BBC all using the GT-45.
Could you make a brief compilation video of all of these tests just to super clearly show how the torque and HP aren’t a lot different amongst very different combos over a variance range of roughy 55% in displacement.
Perhaps that’s spiking the ball.....?
My 2 or 3 cents.
Cheers 🍻
I would love to see old flat heads and or a hurricane 4cyl turbo buildup Willy’s Jeep etc
Me too.
I love youre Video! Very informativ.
Nice to see the right size single comparison. I would like to see right sized twins vs the right sized single. Two smaller twins should be the compromise of response and power to a big single. I'm building a twin s366 6.0l to package into a gbody, no room for a single s475
Hey Richard, how about letting us know what the turbine housing A/R ratios on these tests? This is a very useful piece of info
Richard, you should do a comparison of the same turbos with different sized turbine housings.. show back pressure also.
Look at all that bottom end torque!! I’d low to have all that on my daily 4x4.
Any update on bbc Big Bang?! I’m in a mood where I want to watch some destruction!
You ever do any testing with pipe sizing on both intake and exhaust?
So for a truck, go for a big turbo for a softer launch/more traction, but more power in the mid range?
Still hoping to see a couple of the ebay cumins turbos on a 4.8. I'm wondering if the internal wastegates will keep boost under 14 psi with some 7lb cans on them
I had that cam on my ly6 and boy it made some real power on top 😎
I’m very curious about the compression ratio static cp and dcp for this stroker.. ? Thanks in advance..
Would be interesting to see you test a VGT turbo "Turbonator" from Diesel Power Source.
Big and little compounds for the win! 😉
I would really want to see a wastegate comparison. Like the GT45 with a much bigger wastegate like a turbo smart compgate 40 vs a progate 50. Would a bigger wastegate help with back pressure?
Hey Richard how about an other guy turbo comparison, old 7.3 turbos, maybe a turbo from a 466 international engine, grab one from a front end loader stuff like that
Now that's something that I can believe in. "SIZE MATTERS" lol 😂
Can you do a video on turbo placement,turbo clocking,WG placement,WG welded straight to the backhousing and differences that makes,blow off valve placement,pretty much everything having to do with different placements of components of a turbo kit and the advantages and disadvantages...............and maybe one day build a Mule 434cid SBC or a 440cid SBC with a huge single or big twin turbos and EFI not blow-thru carburetor or build a 454cid LSX with a huge single or big twins I've only really seen 427cid or smaller with turbos when it comes to an LS engine and 430cid and bigger or either N/A or Nitrous but hardly ever any boosted applications except maybe one with a twin screw blower here and there or a small Procharger but nothing that big with turbos even when it comes down to other engines like a BBC I've only really seen 572cid and smaller with a turbo 632cid and bigger either have Nitrous,Procharger,Twin Screw,or N/A maybe you can get a speciality engine builder who builds big cubic inch engines to come on the channel and explain why or maybe even be willing to bring a big cubic inch BBC on the channel and test it out and see what happens maybe even bring a "Semi-Hemi" a BBC with Hemi heads on it 632cid or bigger with a huge single or big twins on EFI with billet intake, CNC ported,polished and milled billet heads,and block, and billet aluminum or titanium rods,and a billet steel crankshaft with a special grind solid roller turbo cam,incanell and titanium valves,and of course shaft rockers and roller everything
So if you have a back pressure issue, can't you open the waste gate to relieve that pressure, while still maintaining boost?
I agree with your idea of a little bigger turbo, as long as people realize when boost goes up, air temps go up, now you need an intercooler, and maybe race gas. Your original Ebay turbo, budget build, just got expensive and it’s no longer a daily driver!
Run ethanol instead of race gas and go pick up the groceries.
Jay Dunbar I found out the hard way, that even on E85 you may still need an intercooler. I have a bunch of ashtrays because of that. Air temps can mess with E85 too!
Got a 408 ls stroker, 94mm billet turbo, ported 823s, ported ls3 intake, am I headed in the right direction?
And this is exactly why my twin gt45 wu tang warriors should pull a premium one for me this season.. I hope 🙏🏼
But where can you look up info on sizes for turbos other than name brand sites. eBay doesn’t seem to help in that department.
When are we going to see more on the L83?
What do you think of a 408 strocker combination with 2 s400 turbos? you think its enough motor for those two turbos? power goal 1800hp
What psi on the large? A/R housing? Thoughts on a g42-1450 for a 6.2L 530HP GM Crate motor? Thanks Richard
This dude is awesome. :)
Dayum Richard I wish u would have ran that vs 7875 I'm about to
Well I’m planning on running a sequential turbo setup, with the small for the low end quick response and the big one for the high end
What turbo would you run in a twin turbo setup for 1000hp?
Add larger chamber head and below 3k gained and top end lost, i would think less comp affects bottom rpm more than top end rpm? Maybe more going on in the flow and swirl that affected drop with low comp heads?
Richard could you compare supercharger vs turbocharger on the same engine to settle the question which one produces more power at the same boost level and using the same intercooler.
Whatever happened to Bryce at Dr J’s , he did an excellent job for me on a BBC intake ten years ago ? Excellent work again Richard .
I have a set of Airwolf heads he did for me ..He got a divorce and shut down shop, he works at carrllio now.Chad Speier is the man at SRH inductions..
Question... bearing turbos are obviously better, but are they? How are the bushing tubo's holding up... seems like many are bushing style these days.
What was the compression ratio with those big chambers?
Could you explain the AR on the exhaust side? I noticed you mentioned it before. But to better understand the concept of it would be nice especially a comparison. Thanks Richard the content is awesome!!!
Yes I can-bigger AR equals more flow and less response for a given size
What would you recommend on a boosted engine timing vs boost. More timing less boost, more boost less timing would be pretty cool to see a video and explanation as to why for which.
Turbine size and exhaust housing A/R is where its at
i think with that caddy 500 you'll change your tune a touch on the "rather have lag down low for big power up top" when that big power up top is at 4800rpm. but that may be an extreme example. cant wait to see though
I'd rather be a little on the small side for street use. Torque, throttle response, burnouts, highway passing. I spend very little time over 5000 rpm. But I'm more of a supercharger guy anyway. It ain't how much I can make, it's how much I can use.
Compound turbos!!!
Would you be willing to do an independent test on DPS Turbonator VGT turbos? They claim it can bring VGT technology even to gasoline engines.
What if I need a small turbo for limited engine space
There are workarounds for the lag issue. Twin scrolls, compounds, etcetera.
Hey I want to have lot of low end torque and hp, size matter?
I want to see some flathead stuff you shown a lot and even my favorite motor but I want to know what different combos with the flathead work and what dont
I bet he has a lawnmower will that little turbo on it
Next episode: Hey guys, grass too tall? Lets make some noise
James Holbrook nah Subaru 😂
I can see a case for a fast-spooling turbo on a smaller engine, but on a healthy V8? Tires only have so much traction.
I'm setting out to disprove the traditional theory that you need a small turbo to get a responsive engine. I'm running a EFR6758 on a 2.0L mazda motor, and I'm "only" running 10 psi (side note: that is going to change this year). That's a big turbo for a 2.0L. In 3rd gear starting at ~1700 rpm, I can achieve 10 psi at ~ 3200 rpm. It's even better in higher gears. It was worse before I got a boost controller, turbo blanket, and wrapped exhaust. However, that's on a fairly short, unequal-length runner exhaust with a single scroll housing. I've already drafted up a slightly longer, equal length runner exhaust design with a twin scroll housing. I'll let you know what I achieve after I've finished up the new design. It'll probably later this year.
Richard, have you ever tested a variable geometry turbine on a gas engine? From everything I have read the hydraulic actuator in Garretts VA series is compatible with pulse width modulated boost controllers.
I have not but would be cool
Sounds very Science ! . . . I would like to see that too ! 👌🏻😎👍🏻
@@richardholdener1727 what is the cheapest turbo for only 500 hp to the wheels
@@bacardiclark8919 get one of the Ball Bearing gt3582 guys. The cheapest that will push 500 to the tires is a Chinese hx35 but your stuck with it. You can maybe get 700 at the tires with a Chinese gt3582r but running them at 500 they will last a long time.
Wish you could do more compression with t4 vs t6 and ar of both
Your closing statement is what gets me. I bought a truck to ls swap and right now I’m thinking 500whp quick spooling street truck. Kind of a cross between auto cross and drag build. I like the idea of a s366, or a 72/68. Both will make low 600hp if needed. But should I go bigger to shift the power up? This is where research fails and real world experience is needed.
what size LS
Richard Holdener 5.3 with small cam. Should be purchasing drive train in a week or so.
Great data as always - but maybe i'm missing the point. The larger turbo is going to make more power - yes. Wouldn't the more relevant comparison be to target a boost level like 10PSI and compare the transient response and the ability of both turbos to carry that boost level throughout the rev range? And by association, what impact that has on area under the curve(s), which is what makes you get down-track faster?
this wasn't that test
Great video Rich, hiw about twin GT-45s on a 5.3 or 6.0! Measure backpressure and see how much boost will can provide along with hp and tq numbers.
those work
I'd like to see how this applies with big displacement/low rpm engines. Like in your other guy's series. Cad 500 and the Buick 455, also curious about how the 500ci Mopar stroker would fair also.
Their NA power spread tells you exactly how they will respond.
Alpha Wërks but they move big volume of exhaust gas compared to let’s say a 5.3
@@hondaservicecenter Agreed. The rpm point would make more sense on a centrifugal supercharger, but it's the exhaust flow that determines the spool on the turbo...just look at the diesels.
Love these videos of yours man. Have a question if I may. Can you do a video of a turbo with an open housing vs divided vs divided and a QSV for turbo response?
QSV is usually only necessary on big turbo, race applications
@@richardholdener1727 well the s475 you have is it a divided housing you would be able to check on it is believe. Even if it's only a 1.00 AR no
what size turbo and exhaust side would you recommend for a 5.3 with 6l80e? not looking for 1000whp. just like 600whp with a real smooth power band. i'll probably put a stage 2/3 cam and springs, ring gap and do something about the crankcase pressure
use a stage 3-a cheap ebay Gt45 works
Why could you not compound the small turbo ?
To echo others, I would like to see you play more with VGT turbos ON EVERYTHING. You know, just to open another can of worms. 👌🏻😁
Thanks for the hard work, our Saint and Patron of The Holy Boost & Other Guys Church ! 🤣👍🏻
Amen.
You never say what area ratios are these turbos
They used to tell us that variable geometry turbos would give you the best of both worlds. Is it too hard for aftermarket kits to control them? Or is there a reliability issue?
VG turbos are common on modern diesels, but are very rare in gasoline engines. As far as I know, Porsche is the only manufacturer that has them. The main reason is exhaust gas temperature is about 400F lower on diesels than on gasoline engines. It takes much more exotic (expensive) materials to make a reliable VG turbo for gasoline. But it would be interesting to pull a VG turbo off a Cummins 6.7 and see how well it works on a 5.3.....
Richard, what do you think about running 2 gt45s on a 6.2 on the street? Can’t find this info anywhere!
that is 1500+ hp worth of turbo-do you need that much? otherwise, go smaller for better response
So...if i had a super charger and i had a small 2 stroke engine with a horizontal shaft, how hard would it be to make a water pump? It LOOKs like it just needs to be sealed on the back...where the blades are exposed.
Just get a little electric one. Prius has electric water pump.
Should I use a turbo or supercharger ? I thought about a hundred shot of nitrous, but I would use that up on the way home for dinner. What is the cheapest and most reliable? It’s for my Silverado w/ 5.3 I just want a lil sleeper just to raise little bit of hell in but yet it is my daily driver. Love your videos!
turbo is cheapest
Hey Richard please remember to sleep
when measuring back pressure are U taking the reading pre or post turbo
Do you think there is anything to be said when running twins to size one slightly bigger or smaller to change the power delivery
Would love to see a bigg compound turbo test
and
A remote turbo test comparison
I've been dreaming up a remote compound system inbetween being the fattest fly in your dyno room
I just love that this is job
I do believe BMW brought out a triple sequential on an m series Diesel with great success
Bring back the keglageon for a boost test please
back pressure readings taken before turbo and we size them the same unless sequential
. . . BMW actually "went to plaid" and made a four turbo B57 inline 6 Diesel [ 394hp@4400 rpm/561torque@2k-3k rpm ] and installed it in the M550d which I think never made it to USA shores.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B57
A 80mm turbo out flowed a 69mm...doesn't surprise me...
So Richard please help, I have a 2002 fbody, doing a 5.3 turbo swap. Due to lack of e85 around would like to run flex and be able to utilize premium 91 as well. I would like to make 700ish rwhp on e85, and 91 have a casual tune for when e85 isn't available. What would be my best turbo options and cam and what have you?
a truck norris
For $160 I kinda think the small one is the way to go for a lot of people so you can get things going since you are going to be spending some money already and a turbo update later is easy I mean assuming you don't go to small on intercooler and injectors
Any experience with this combo? I'm putting together a 4.8, Sloppy stage 2 cam, NNBS Intake manifold, S475 (75/96) 1.32 T6, 4L80, Holley Terminator X Max SN95. I'm having trouble sizing a converter for a street car. I'd love to see what the stock converter would do! Gonna try and shoot for 3.27 gears on a 275/60/15.
Go watch sloppymechanics 8f8 build. It's literally this exact same combo, same car, but a bigger turbo and th400.
yes-go ask MatT at Sloppy for the converter
Another over cammed 4.8
What would be a good daily driver turbo for lq4 that stays with in the normal operating range of the stock lq4 or torque cam for low speed to make a bit more where you would need it when pulling a trailer not looking at peak power but a good cruiser is it even possible to achieve it?
the GT45 or S366
I want to dual turbo an lq9 but I have no clue which exact turbo to get. But I essentially want to turn my 1970 lincoln into a pro touring car.
I am in the process of building a twin turbo built 376 cu.in. LSA block, BTR stage 2 twin turbo cam, triple 450 return style fuel pumps , 1300cc injectors, meth, e85 and all the other supporting mod's.....I was wondering if my two Precision Turbo 6266 Billet Gen2 CEA BB Turbos with an AR of .82 big enough to make over 1k rwhp??
that should do it no problem
I’d love to see a video on exhaust back pressure, any pros or cons to it and how to detect it on dyno graphs
All Con, higher temps with more back pressure. He has addressed the question previously.
Yes it can be detected from the dyno graph easily. You'll see the power drop drastically at a RPM where the back pressure becomes too high. If you're running 15 lb of boost then you turn it up to 25 lbs of boost, it'll still make the same power just higher torque earlier which could Bend rods. We picked up from 743 rear-wheel horsepower at 24 pounds of boost to 1030 rear-wheel horsepower by changing from a .91 AR to a .96 AR twin s369 Warner's
Lots of back pressure info on other tests
@@richardholdener1727 thanks looking forward to it
Compressor to match the horsepower, turbine to flow the cubic inches.
Has anyone engine dyno'd compound, vgt, or quick spool valved turbos on a gas engine?
check out the compound video that is up
We need that diesel VGT technology in gas aftermarket for low rpm boost.
I think modern gasser cars have a turbo similar to vgts but I'm not sure on that
@@chrishansen7004 They do but they're small. We need the 78/76 sized ones with reliability. Throw that 2 step shit in the trash.
Pick the turbo that will get you past where you want to go.
Please run the gt45 and s475 sequentially that's how u get the response and big numbers, right?
lots of plumbing there
"Small Turbo Blue's" sounds like a great jazz song💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾 we just gotta get it right the first time baby 🗣️🗣️🗣️
How noticeable would the difference in response be going from the smaller turbo to the s475 on a mostly street driven car?
watch the turbo video where I compared them
@@richardholdener1727 I think I did.
Hi Richard do you have any data /info on twin turbos on a stock ls3? I'm mid project but wondering what to expect from my twin small ebay turbos t3/t4 generic internal gated
T3 hot side is pretty small for an LS3
@@richardholdener1727 I'm very limited on space on my build as it's a low mount setup in a vxr8 ( pontiac g8 in the US) I'm not necessarily looking for ultimate 1000 hp power :) it's a street daily more than a drag special
Any chance for a test showing a LS engine getting into boost at lower RPMS? Pretty much trying to get a gasser to act somewhat like a diesel with a power curve (as close as possible).
big motor and small turbo
@@richardholdener1727 How would that do with towing though? Would it generate too much heat? I don't need a lot of boost. Just something for my 6.0.
Thanks for the videos and responses.
This is probably a stupid question. If a single turbo is maxed at 750hp would that same turbo in a twin setup make the system maxed at 1500hp?
yes-possibly a little more
Do you have a gt45 vs summit for a low rpm cam for a truck with stock heads and intake. BTR has a truck cam called "torque". I think it would put the power at a very low rpm range. I would like to see how it would run with different boost levels on pump gas. You do a great job.
THE TWO TURBOS WOULD DO THE SAME THING (THERE IS A VIDEO UP) WITH ANY CAM-BIGGER ONE WILL BE LESS RESPONSIVE, BUT MORE POWER POTENTIAL
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you. th-cam.com/video/s5Y04npcG0c/w-d-xo.html just came up in my suggested videos. Looks like we are back to the trucknorris cam.