CHEAP LS TURBO TEST-EBAY GT45 vs SUMMIT S475
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ธ.ค. 2020
- $163 DNA GT45 TURBO vs $649 S475 SUMMIT TURBO-WHO WINS? DO YOU REALLY GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED TWO LOW-$ TURBO TITANS, THE ALWAYS POPULAR GT45 CLONE (FROM DNA AND EVERYONE ELSE) AND THE SUMMIT RACING S475. HOW DOES THE CHEAPER 800-HP TURBO COMPARE TO THE MORE EXPENSIVE 1000-HP TURBO?
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I would like to see the Summit turbo compared to Twin GT45 clones. I'm interested to see what going twins does to boost lag and torque. 2 x $169 = $338 which is still around half the price of the S475. Factoring in the extra cost of plumbing a second turbo might make this a better comparison money-wise.
Good point, good point!
He did this test, the gt45 turbos were better, at 1000 hp the s475 had like 3 times the back pressure 😳
Cheap /clones always have a down fall. Holset,Garret, precious, and turbonetics. Have levels and classes you buy the class you want to be in and never have to wonder if it can support it.
Enjoying the videos Richard. It’s important work and consumer evidence you’re providing.
I’m still learning and your videos are awesome and informative! I’d like to see single vs twin turbo setups and more specific 2 gt45 vs a bigger/more expensive single setup and pros/cons of each example
i would love to see a turbo video on different size AR housings on the same compressor size and see how the different backpressures affect the boost rate. pleeeeeeease.
Me too
Yesss
@@hondatech5000 dude you just babbled on and on about nothing. The AR ratio can significantly impact power as back pressure on the hot side can cause massive inefficiency on the cold side. Thats what they wanna see, not your "pick the best size turbo" generic bullshit.
I would totally love to see that! I'd love to see a complete series on different AR housings, on the compressor side as well. The new Garrett G series is running larger A/R on the compressor side with a more efficient wheel. A G25 flows slightly better than the GTX30! I really wish they would have taken advantage of the OE side advances a long time ago. The aftermarket is supposed to lead the charge. Not the other way around. If it wasn't for emissions Nazis we wouldn't be making nearly as much power. Unintended side effects hahahaahha.
@@hondatech5000 i agree with there not being a ton of options in ar housings given low budget turbos from eBay to hks, and summit to borgwarner.
Thanks for posting these Richard!
I Appreciate all your hard work. The fast lane to horsepower taking out the guess work..You rock DZ 302 was my first drag Motor in a drag jeep.
Love the videos Richard. You should do a video explaining turbo efficiency maps and why they have falling boost curves.
happiness is.... a new richard video!
Great stuff Richard!!! Thank you for all the information you give us!
You put 45min worth of info in a 22:45min video! Keep at it , I'm soaking all this up. Why? I don't know, I like it!
Please Richard, do the ebay 3582 water oil turbocharger. Single and dual setups. There are a lot of guys wanting to know your expertise about them.
Keep it up Rich, awesome channel, waiting to hear more data for the Buick Camp please..
budget boost is a great thing
Thanks again, appreciate the information and clarification, cheers
Awesome test. I had just asked if you'd do this test a few weeks ago. Nice video!!!!
This is such great information. Thanks again for sharing your experience and wisdom !!!
This is by far the best turbocharger video I have seen. Very informative and well presented. 👍👍
Wow, thanks!
@@richardholdener1727what size is your GT45 please? I looked for a GT45 and there seems to be several different ones. Thanks, and great vid!
Great video thanks Richard. Torque curves below 4000 is quite interesting, like your thoughts / comments. Both turbos look to be spooled by 3500, yet the Summit setup is still putting out more torque lower down at that point with approx .5 psi less boost, where the smaller turbo you would have expected held closer. I guess transient response may show differences with the smaller turbine etc, but is it simply the difference in exhaust restriction on the motor at that point? Thanks
I personally find your vast knowledge invaluable Richard and learned more with your videos than any other on utube hands down. Thank you 1000%
More nova please!!!
happy to help
A very informative video!
Thanks Dr. Turbo 😁
usually I just use compressed air to the top of the gate via pressure regulator to raise boost in increments on the dyno vs a bleed
I'm really liking all these turbo videos. I would like to see the difference with the turbo headers from ebay or a name brand if possible. Hoping to do a ls swap in a 3rd gen camaro soon with twins and I'm at the point of getting the gt45 clone for sure. Keep up the good videos
Oooooo that intro music sure got me in the mood
Great info , Great attitude. Thanks for all the vids
Thank you 50 times over!!! I'm so tired of people on forums yapping about not bothering with cams or ports. "Why are you gasket matching, pocket porting and changing the cam? You are adding boost anyway, what's the point? " Because making your motor as efficient as possible will really get the numbers up there! A well built VQ37 making 450na will do 1050 at 20psi or 1.4 BAR. 20 PSI on a stock VQ37 might get you 750. That's a huge difference and less strain on the motor. People just don't understand, I would love to see twin gt45s vs twin 475s. Maybe a compound setup in the 4 liter 2jz type in the land cruiser!! Stock vs ported, built and cammed.
Thanks for the video. How about an LS stock head vs one with the swirl ramp ground away?
Another super informative video! Thanks Richard! Any chance you might cook up a video explaining ring gap and compression ratios for different power adders?
ring gap is .007-.0075 per 1.0-inch of bore size (near .028-.030) for both top and 2nd ring. compression is open-more for race cars with high octane, less for street cars
Great video. I can tell you’ve learned a lot since you did this test.
not sure how you tell that
Love the turbo videos
To quote Mr. Banks "it takes pounds of air to burn pounds of fuel". Air density is the key, -and if you run a compressor off of it's island on the compressor map, adiabatic efficiency takes a major dump. Heat the air and it's worthless. Great videos as always Richard, -I watch every one! Looking forward to Turbo Tuesday!
I have personally found The new generation of hi efficiency Garrett turbos substantial step up which would make a great video Richard
show us the data
Not sure how to upload pictures I would have to check with don Walsh additional dyno information
I would love to see the engine that stays on the island. It's one thing to say it in a theoretical context, it's another to size a turbo that perfectly to what the engine needs to do all the time.
@@177SCmaro You are absolutely correct. There is no way to ever stay in the sweet spot all of the time. I was merely stating that there are significant benefits to be had by sizing the charger/compressor as close as possible for the amount of mass air flow.
It looks like a pretty beastly turbo. I'd be curious to see the curve of twin gt45s any way you can test that?
Good info Richard....Your the new Turbo Guru.....🙏
Someone else mentioned AR variations and back pressure, I say yes please! The back pressure curves would be a nice addition to the info. It must have been quite high on the maxed out GT45, but it still followed the pressure ratio horsepower formula quite closely (looking at the boost curve at power peak). This begs the question, if both make the same power at the same boost but one has much higher back pressure, is it using more fuel or something to get there? You’ve mentioned the exhaust valves might not like the high back pressure, is there any other down side? Please do a test to show the effects of back pressure on power production with hot side variables like AR ratio. Thanks again, Richard, for the best channel on YT!
Thank you so much for this and indeed all your videos Richard. Big up.
You are very welcome
Could you do a test comparing a couple different blowers (size, style, boost) love the videos!!!!!!!
Richard i always enjoy watching your videos very informative . i have a question to see what your thoughts are im in the process of building my headers for a set of 88mm turbos on a 351 base motor stroked to a 393 i had a thought would there be any advantage to run a cross over tube from both the turbos on the hot side and only using one waste gate for both im thinking theoretically the wast gate is only reading over all boost pressure that and running as once source of pressures hitting the hot side of the turbos and balancing out even amount of flow to both turbos maybe allowing more volume . just a thought thanks Bill
two gates for two turbos would be better
@@richardholdener1727 thank you
What wastegate spring were you running ? That also has an effect on how much boost you can run with a bleed valve depending on if you didnt use the top port of the wastegate
Would love to be able to do some work with you on some big block stuff! I’m working on some different setups for the future of my car
Richard Holdener first of all love your work and appreciate all that you do.
Question : Would a good high quality turbo making the same psi at the same rpm be less restrictive on the exhaust side and would that equal more power at the same psi?
I'M NOT SURE HOW QUALITY WOULD CHANGE THE POWER
Richard Holdener What I mean is would a good expensive turbo be less restrictive on the hot side and would that equate to more power?
My thinking is a cheap turbo would have less research and development put into the design and would likely be more restrictive on the hot side and restricting flow on the hot side would cost power!??
Thanks Dan this really helped me, I moved recently and have this exact same grill, doing the conversion now, great info!
Who is Dan?
Lol, leaving too many positive reply’s on other people’s channels.
Loved this video Richard, as always your videos are very informative, love all the comparisons and commentary!
Godbless to you for making these awesome videos 🤘🏽
Yes! Great info, nothing but the facts!
I ran a gt45 on our c5 vette worked great very good budget turbo
Hey man I really enjoy watching your show, keep it up.
Was up Ronnie.
@@ronnieyoung8549 😂😂 hey Ronnie, where’s Connie?😂
@@carlosherrera8541 ?? Is that a low down hit. Are u saying I'm gay
@@ronnieyoung8549 idk where you got that from 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ I just saw that y’all were both Ronnie so I figured where’s Connie at?🤷🏻♂️😂
@@carlosherrera8541 oh. 👀 my fault.
I had a 454 with a Mike Jones cam ( was ground for a street N/A) , got bored and set up headers routed forward and around to a single s475, no lag, great street killer.
Excellent turbo video.
Very informative. One must consider volumetric efficiency of the engine as well as a turbo. At lower RPM and horsepower ranges the cheap one will do fine.... As things head to the higher end of the RPM spectrum it's going to fall flat. Like you said Richard the turbo must be designed to support the particular horsepower application.
Have you done testing on the same size turbo but different kind of compressor wheel. "billet vs cast wheel"? Thank you for all the great work you are doing.
The dyno might not show any difference. I mean anything. If it's a pretty.good cast wheel at moderate boost, there isn't too much to be.gained. on the strip and in the car it's a little different story. If you compared compressors that flow the same, a cast s480 vs billet s476sxe, that might give you more information.
Hey I love your vids. You should make a detailed video or a how to turbo an ls. Im in the process of 5.3 swapping my 89. I wanna keep the motor stock and just swap a cheap turbo on it. Im a diy guy however theres not really a whole lot of turbo ls info. Just think it would be dope to walk us thru the general process of hooking up a turbo to a motor. Greatly appreciated keep up the dope vids man
This nigga said theres not alot of turbo ls info ,what rock are you under lol? His 4.6 mod motor info on the other hand yeeeeah good luck finding info on that besides here
There’s a book I just bought called ‘supercharging/turboing your ls engine’ (somewhere along that name) and it’s a pretty good step by step book
Richard, what psi should I think about other than pump gas 91 here in new mexico???
I was hoping the turbos were going to be the same size so we could see the difference between the cheaper single journal bearing and the more expensive but more efficient ball bearing turbo. Hp, boost curve, ect....If you can make that happen it would be great. Your videos are very informative. Thank you!
Your comment is the exact reason why I watched this video. Unfortunately and somewhat unfairly Richard didn't use the same exhaust input flanges etc to drive the cheaper turbo. It might have produced just a tad more! What say you?
Been watching your videos for a while now. Been going back to watch older videos of what pertains to my build. I’ve been working on my car for 2 years now. I’m ready to finish it but I would like to add turbos. Which will all be new to me. If I give you my build can you recommend turbos for me. I know you like the cheaper turbos to. That’s they way I’d rather go right now and upgrade later. Thank you for any help.
Love your channel.I have an 03 Cobra wanted to turbo it was wondering if you wanted to do a build on it for you channel...
Thnx for the offer-but I've done lots of those
Cool vid good insight into performance world.peace
It would be interesting to see where you're at on the compressor efficiency map on both turbo's, but that information is not available on the ebay turbo. Maybe you could get some pseudo data by measuring compressor and turbine delta temperature?? ...that is if the temperature readings don't have too much lag time.
The one thing about the cheap turbos is, the sticky waste gates. Ive had 2 of them run away. Got the motor shut down before any damage was done, but something to watch out for! Awesome vid again!! Thanks
I don't usually go cheap on waste gates-those are critical
Nice, so the eBay turbo will definitely do what I want to do if I control it properly... I have a stock 2007 PI 2v 4.6 swapped into my '99 lincoln...around 235'ish hp....wanna make around 335 or 350 ish, and keep it somewhat stock looking...My main goal is boosting the torque quite a bit and having a somewhat flat curve similar to the ecoboost using what I got.
Basing it on cost, would you be better off doing a twin turbo gt45 clone setup vs the single summit? Instead of comparing like turbos, could you compare like costs?
Good video sir. Looks like my s366 t6 should make around 600hp on the big block.
Thanks @RichardHoldener another great vid with the info I need. I still think twin 45's on the stock caddy will my best route. Lock it at 6psi of boost. Would make a great fun reliable engine. Ebay has some big block chey turbo headers cheap. Like 140 bucks. I've got some caddy header flanges. Courtney said it's easy to make the swap. I'll have to modify my wheel well covers to make it work. I dream of turbos.
sweet dreams
Please im begin with yoh please do a rear mounted turbo set up all the guys talk sgit about them. Boost leg 🦵 😋. No back pressure.
I would like to see some tests on how the diameter of intercooler piping, intercooler inlets / outlets, and intercooler cross sections affect IAT, EGT, etc. Something like 3 different sized turbos, 3 different sizes of pipe, and well, the intercooler inlet / outlet / cross section combos could become quite extensive. Basically the idea would be to help people decide, when it's worth the trouble to start cutting up body parts to make room for bigger "stuff", and when to just use what fit's easiest. Intercooler dragging on speed bumps -vs- limiting the tune to keep it safe.
watch the intercooler upgrade video
Damnit Richard. Why did you have to post that tonight? Instead of listening on the way to work in the morning, I’m gonna have to watch it tonight. I guess I’ll just listen to it again in the morning anyways. Lol. 👍
yes-do both brother!
Thanks Richard.
I understand!! Thank you. I have a propane powered Toyota 3TC with 87mm Weisco forged pistons and a Schneider turbo cam, MSD 6AL and CB performance Black box ignition computer. I should be happy with about 190hp with my 10lbs of boost. My little '73 Corolla will be fun! Driven it around the neighborhood un-tuned and it feels great.
I LIKE THE 73 ROLLA AND THE 3TC
You should do a video with the one t4 88mm next. I'd love to see how close it can get to the 1050hp that it is rated for.
Awesome video Richard. Would be interesting to see an A/R comparison and the difference that makes on the same turbo
Rob dahm has a video for that , just done on a rotary engine but same principal.
@@mixxedboyybuilds8273 thanks mate I’ll go check it out 👍🏻
Ar is a really fine tuning thing. I kinda want to see.the same compressor wheel on different turbine sections with the same Ar. Garrett has gt3788, gt4088 and gt4288 turbos that all have the same compressor head. They are all kind of the same size. The compressor wheel has the same pn. The turbine is really different and would show way more than a switch of just Ar
@@timothybayliss6680 this is an awesome test idea also, the Garrett’s mentioned and some larger frame Borg’s 👍🏻
that's a better test that AR change Tim
good stuff man !!!
Can you do a vid to see how much power you can get out of a 302 na none stroker
So if im shooting for a daily driven occasional street pull 700 rwhp which would be the best route? Will more then likely be running flex fuel as well as e85 is only had at a few places
You can hold down control key while selecting files and it should open all the files at once.
Richard you have put out some really amazing horsepower numbers adding ring gap but I don’t remember hearing about o-rings. When does that become necessary?
I don't run o rings
Great video next time electronic boost controller with back pressure sensor
Great video, what engine management do you use for these tests
holley hp
@@richardholdener1727 thanks Richard 👍
Richard, I'm looking to do a boosted 2001 corvette,and would like to get some tips on improving the fuel flow,so I can use the kinds of boost that you're getting with these turbo's.
injectors and pump
Good job buddy
Richard Holder, you've peaked my interest on turbo builds, so my question is which kit would you choose out of an on3 or cxracing kit for the sbf?
I have not tested actual kits for things like fitment-just the power of the turbos
Richard Holdener, I'm speaking of power and reliability not fitment.
Hey Richard, thanks for the GREAT content and all the testing you do! Stupid question though, what would happen if you ran twin gt45's? Would it be overkill or be better than running a single s475? I'm new to the channel and new to the whole turbo arena so please forgive me if I ask a dumb question. Thank you and keep up the awesome work! I'm definitely subscribing brother!
two gt45s will support a lot of power
S475 vs s480; does legit borg turbos have better efficiency than the clones?
Excellent, i enjoyed it.
The bigger the turbo the greater the threshold, and longer the lag. I think people get hung up on the "dyno queen" aspect of the big numbers, but lose sight of onset of actual power delivery, and where in the rpm zone that happens. Power under the curve is what works on the street and is infinitely more enjoyable that an on/off switch, long spool of a ramp. And when that takes a long time to develop, and even worse falls off at the top, that stinks on the street.
My .02 c
Great info Richard! How reliable are these eBay turbos under normal, street driving conditions, and if they fail, what general happens to the turbo? Sizing aside, is the Summit turbo that much better than the eBay turbos?
Please, when possible, more test data, IAT, boost to backpressure.......Thank you!
the s475 size makes more power than the GT45 size
What dictates the hp/psi ratio is the V.E of your engine as long as the turbo can support it. The closer a turbo gets to its choke point and out of its efficiency range the less hp/psi it is going to make until it reaches a boost level where it will be at its limit and at that point it will only create static boost and no flow, even if you manage to maintain a fairly flat boost curve throughout the rev line. (as pressure ratio goes up flow goes down). After that point it will start to drop boost. Bigger turbos allow one to reach higher boost levels and still make power. This can also be said up to a point for more aerodynamically efficient wheels and with more blade surface area, in comparison to less efficient ones of the same overall size, a fact which raises the choke points slightly and can allow one to run a bit more boost through the turbo, but in turbos nothing can beat size in regards to making more power. Another good video.
na hp doubles at 14.7 psi-increase na hp and boosted power goes up too (just need the turbo size to support that hp)
@@richardholdener1727 The reason it doubles it, is the V.E of the engine, so according to how much hp that V.E of that engine makes in n/a form, it doubles that or close to that, if the turbo pushes the cfm. The same happens to turbo/super charged engines but you usually get the base hp multiplied by the extra boost which is added to the stock boost , or in order to exceed that you will need to increase the V.E of that engine.
Is there a web page where the test charts can be reviewed and studied? Awsome videos, I am a huge dyno test guy. Every time I dyno an engine it's like a years worth of real world education. Thank you for doing these tests.
JUST VIDEOS
Hey Richard, thanks for this video. This is what I've been looking for. Now I feel better about my purchase of a s475 to run with a 451 stroker. If you're ever able to run a bbm with a better than r.v. platform i know it will be very well received. You'd probably be responsible for a shortage of s475s 😆... again thanks
that is a good turbo for the 440 (or 7875 gen 2)
Since I have a Summit s475 sitting in the floor of my office going on a 6.0 with P&P 243's and a BTR stage 4 turbo cam with LSXR ( per your intake video) , I am looking forward to seeing what the max output is going to be.
How's it running
I'm wanting to make 750 hp on a 5.3. Can I do that with a gt45 at 15lbs of boost?
The V-band flanges on the S475 would make it my choice. I prefer them over slip-on silicone hoses.
Shop air applied instead of a controller maybe?
Nice S475 video in just 1 day response! Richard is that guy!!! 🙌🏽
Oh yeah this is one I've requested as well. I hope he will run a s475 on a better than junkyard r.v. bbm. As I am building a 451 stroker and I have a new s475 with the t6 ar1.32
@@Popsm0ke nice I got the same turbo but im building a 6.0 ls for my old school
@@Popsm0ke first build and I literally got all my info from this angel 🙌🏽
Thnx-this is not the S475 compare video (more to come)
I really wanted to see the video of the test them turbos spinning
Would be really cool to see the same size ebay turbo vs the same size high dollar turbo like a precision and see the differences
Ive heard gt45 is a pt88 clone
@@GreenLifeOmaha_GLO I wonder if the gt45 is a Garrett gt45 clone
Well, once you get into the 1500 to 2k range, money doesn't matter, engineering does
@@aycentroid the Chinese turbos are direct knockoffs of high dollar, legitly engineered turbos. Of course we want to see how they compare directly.
Hello Sir.
Have you ever had any experience with the VS Brand turbos on ebay? I am in the process of spec'ing out a twin turbo build and have been going through all your videos, of which i thank you immensely. I really want to go the mirrored or symmetrical design twin turbos for visual purposes. I have found a few but ,$$$, NRE and Precision. Maybe worth a video or discussion about VS as an option??
March
Yes I have run VS turbos and mention them all the time-please see the VS turbo videos
S475 @ 10psi - 6000rpm = ~780hp
GT45 @ 10.5psi - 6000rpm = ~750hp
Similar but definitely statistically significant.
That’s a difference in power of ~4%.
For people trying to maximize a setup this matters.
picking one point (at different pressures) is not a good comparison
@@richardholdener1727 I agree! I'd love to see you run this test again with the EBC, the cheap GT45, the S475, and a big dollar race turbo.
great video!!!! I have a stock 1987 Buick GN what is your opinion on using a GT45 turbo as a upgrade? is it bigger better then my stock turbo? I don't know much about my stock turbo
it can make a lot more power than your stock GN turbo
@@richardholdener1727 wow thanks for the super fast response. In your opinion what would I need do to use this turbo?
Eluder Racing call summit and ask them
@@richardholdener1727 can you give me a link to the company you mentioned that sells the GT45 turbo i can’t find anything thank you
Richard, I enjoy your "low buck" videos... I would like to see you test the generic LM7 + cam + eBay GT45... but compare the cheapest ECU like "microsquirt batch fire & waste spark" vs MS3 Pro, MS Gold Box, Haltech, Holley HP, Dominator, Terminator, Terminator X, etc... do any of these $$$$ ECU's really make more power?
if they allow you to run the correct AF and timing-they will all make the same power
I think also it’s not always what guys are looking for when upgrades ecu. They may be looking for added failsafes and more monitoring
I have seen cheap Ecu not make the same where it comes on boost and it’s places like this that , I’m told it to Ecu processing speed that matters
Idea.. dry sump vs wet just throwing that one out there
I would love to see this.
Engine masters did an oil pan video along those lines, the power gain was not insignificant on a big block.
@@Levibetz ill check it out
pretty interesting article shown me I was about to make a big mistake
so maybe you have a video on this question but if you use twins does that essentially double the hp or just triple the n/a number? so for example if a single gt45 is good for 600hp at say 13psi, if you add a second will that bump up the hp to 1200 at the same psi or only to roughly 900hp? if you already made a video explaining this I'd love to see it, if not I'm super curious as to how the hp/boost changes with twins. you're videos have intrigued me immensely!!
IF YOU ADD A PAIR OF 600-HP TURBOS-THEY WILL SUPPORT 1200 HP, BUT AT A HIGHER BOOST LEVEL BASED ON THE NA STARTING POINT
@@richardholdener1727 very cool, thanks!!
Hey Rich would say LS1 rods and pistons are just as strong as 5.3lm7 rods and pistons? I’m building a budget iron ls1 and I want use stock ls1 used pistons if I can find them. I’ll use the 5.3 rods most likely.
THEY WILL WORK FINE
@@richardholdener1727 thanks!