Which head is best on your Gen III LS swap?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2019
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Link to my website, www.thedrivewayengineer.com
Link to head dyno test article. www.superchevy.com/how-to/engi... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Dude you make the videos I’ve been looking for. Simple , straight up, and actually included me in the “99 percent” 😂😂
Thanks! I'm glad they are helping you
I’m the 99 percent !
Good info! Thanks for taking the time to do this. Really like your no nonsense and cheap approach to LS builds.
Thank you for the education. I’m learning so much from your channel.
Another great video, I’m just getting into the LS scene and need all this information. Thank you
Back when I wanted to build a motor. It was prc 2.5s all the way gotta have em. Now that my wallets out. 317s or 862s all day. Great vid
You have been a awesome resource of knowledge on LS engines. I absolutely love that you tell it how it is.
I have my set of 862 heads put up thanks for the great video
Good information, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Because of your video series, I’m strongly considering going this route over the traditional SBC in my Camaro.
Great info, my junkyard 5.3 came with 862 heads
I'm new to your channel and I'm part of the 99% of people that don't have a lot of money but can put together a fast small block to run around the streets with out of a junkyard. Love the videos. Keep up with the educational videos.
I just answered all my questions I was gonna ask you. Good content for sure !
Just discovered your channel,very good information on the heads !!Loved the printed specs and the flow numbers!!Great on what heads came in which vehicles too.Look forward to seeing all you videos 👍👍
Great info the buddy. I too am wanting to do an LS on the cheap side and you’re making it easier.
Thanks! I'm glad it's helping!
I really like your explanations! I am not a mechanic but if I see someone do something I got it forever. Can’t wait to find my LS/Truck Vortex engine
I'm a big believer in hands on learning, I do the same.
I picked up a pair of 862's for my firebirds 5.7ls today. Thanks for the video.
Love the channel. Thank you for the help!
Great info. You help to clear up much of the mystery regarding the heads for LS & much of the misinformation regarding an LS build in general.
Thanks for taking the time to post your info & dis spell much of the BS going on out there.
STAY REAL.
I got the stock 99 c5 Corvette with the ls block. Performs just fine for me. Video was very thorough and informative. ✌🏾💯
That's the real lesson, none of the heads are significantly better or worse than the others
Warren Michigan checking in video #9 every video in this series were great it’s actually gave me the confidence to build my own now and like I said in the last video my build will be on Woodward cruse this year because of this information instead of just a edam motor sitting in the garage on a stand thanks JR
That's awesome! I want to make it down there as well, maybe we can hang out!
The Driveway Engineer hell ya brother I grew up around Woodward and not in Birmingham or even Royal Oak hazel park the ghetto or better know as Hazel Tucky but my ex grew up in Royal Oak so I know the area very well I can show all the cool areas to hang out at best places to get good meals also but I gotta tell you make sure your cooling system is squared away the traffic can be a nightmare with all the classic cars on Woodward cruising
Pretty comprehensive and to the point. Thanks. I'll have to bookmark this vid. I've always preferred a smaller CC for quicker burn, better thermal efficiency. Its all aluminum after all, it can dissipate the heat much better than cast iron, therefore these engines can take the spark advance booster so sought after, w/o pre-detonation. Would like to see them design a head w/ more dedicated cooling to help the overall thermal efficiency.
Love the channel, very useful info.. thank you
I blew my lq4 up and found a lq9 block cheap and when I got the block it needed to be bored so I went .030 with +6 cc flat top pistons and the block was decked .010 and heads shaved .010 asa hot cam with 873 iron heads. I really like your info video
Junkyard LS, new cam and a bunch of used tires for burnouts sounds like an awesome Saturday
Another good and informative video, thanks...
You are absolutely one of the few people that I have heard make such an intelligent statement about higher compression and boost. Apparently very few people are aware of this. I keep trying to tell people this oh, that you do not need to have 7 to 1 compression to run boost. There are actually people who run 14 to 1 compression and then boost. Regardless the reason it is going to have a snap your response is because it will still have the immediate torque. We don't have to wait for the turbo to spool up, which means you can go with a bigger Turbo for higher-end power but still have power in the low end. This also means that you don't have to overwork the turbo as much. I am currently finishing up a forged 384 Stroker with a 10.5:1 CR NA, & with only 10 PSI from the twin turbos, i am over 820 ft lb torque/ 715 HP. Those turbos are barely breaking a sweat.
Diesels on 18-wheelers use 18:1 compression ratio plus a turbo, but for different reasons. That being said, it comes down to heat management. The vulnerable parts are exhaust valves, the exhaust side of the piston, and the turbo exhaust temps.
@@ronroberts110 very true!
It's an old wives tail that just won't die like Pennzoil or destroked engines rev faster
Maybe some people worry about the ol David that is pre detonation....
But with E-85 pretty much everywhere with it's higher resistance to engine knock and its characteristic cooler burning flame... you can have your cake and eat it too. So long as you set your fuel system up to use it. But really... if you're ready to swap heads and possibly engine swap all together... doing a fuel system along with it isn't really much to add on
I run my 10.5:1 6.0 on 87 octane
Thanks for these videos theres so many parts out there it's hard to decide. Trying to figure out a head cam combo for my 00 ss camaro.
Man you are funny at the same time you have knowledge I just subscribe you be having me cracking up I am sitting back just listening so I can be great also I'm almost done with my build LS1 2000 WS6
I like the way you think. Subscribed
Yep, I agree, with my running LQ9 (all original) I am going to simply freshen it up, (check oil pickup tube seal) and slap it in . Run it, see how I like it, then I can play with cams and what have you. Good education thanks.
How did it go?
@@FilthyPancakes Frankly, it didn't. I ended up tearing the engine down and could hardly get the cam out, although lifters and lobes look good. Fair amount of black carbon, but no sludge or metal, tested, and had 165 to 180 PSI in all 8 cyls dry prior. Still had crosshatch on walls and pulled one rod bearing looked good. So, now I am taking in to shop, have them do inspection and install stage two cam / bearings. put it back together and hopefully run it. Fingers crossed, potential for change without notice! LOL
I just read an article a few weeks ago that said the 706 heads were a game changer on the LQ4. I hopped on Facebook and found a pair of them about an hour away for $50. Thanks for confirming what I was crossing my fingers for! Subscribed!
I paid 50 for mine lol, then sold my 243's for 300 lol
Ha! That's awesome! My LQ4 had the 873 heads on it. This build is just going to be for fun on the street. I'm going to put it on the track and see what it will do, but going to build a more serious engine for next year. I bought my car as a roller. It came off of the track running in the 8's at 160+ mph with a twin turbo 5.3. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200hp. I'd like to get it back to doing that someday!
Before I had an ls I thought the car heads / later truck heads were what I needed until I started looking at the combustion chamber sizes. Everyone said to get the 799 heads off a late model 5.3 but with an 04 5.3 I’d be going up in cc’s and down in compression. Being that I’m not using a turbo I decided to listen to mr holdner where he shows the 706 / 862 heads make the most power so I got some junk yard heads, cleaned them, lapped the valves, and put some el cheapo eBay springs on them, then I picked up a Chinese 615-183 intake for $65 brand new, ls7 lifters, summit Vortec towing cam and it’s a totally different truck
Just found your page here and your Facebook group...
You my friend are awesome, you're like Richard Holdener for those who aren't trying to spend 10k on a build...
Looking forward to binging on your videos.
I've read most of his books lol, not surprising we think alike.
Man I gotta catch up on ALL your LS videos lol great content brother!
Thank you!
You saved me man.... I was that guy with the lq4 thinking about swapping to flat top pistions... I was leaning towards 706 heads but then heard about the "some might crack " great information brother.
I've been that guy too, too much money into too little result.
Not only do I like the information and down home opinion, but the immatations make happy, happy, happy!
"Yep" I'm a real big fan of keep it simple stupid, I agree with you!
You are always on point!
Hey bud so I got this yukon 2500 with a 6.0 in it. I wanted to do a cam (summit cam for like 200 ish) and I wanted to also slap 862 heads on it to bump compression up. I heard that they flow less than the 317 heads that came with it... but a lot of it is above 6k rpms and I use the thing for towing and use on the street.
Thanks for the video man
SWEET my 03 Silverado 4.8 came with 862’s love me some compression
Great video
the 706 head made the most power on hot rod magazine dyno at west tech, get you some of that baby.
Thanks again for sharing bro I really appreciate you
Any time
Great info
Many thanks
Cheap burnouts is what it's all about 🤑
This guy get's it lol.
Unless you just bought new tires like I just did. But I love my burnouts more lol
Cheap on reliable crap
Great video. I have 862’s that are in mint condition that came out of a very low mileage 5.3. And I have a set of 799’s that came out of a torched 5.3. 799’s will need all work done to them. People keep telling me to run the 799’s and I’m like nope, 862’s are what I’m going to run.
yay i got 862s cam swap intake and exhaust are on the way
Love it thanks for the info
Concerning the valve size talk at 4:20. Most hot rodders have heard about how a Ford 302 can bolt up 351W heads for bigger valves, providing better breathing at high RPM's, but causing poor cylinder-filling/torque at lower RPM's. The opposite is also true. Bronco's with a 351W have swapped-in 302 heads with smaller valves. It provided less air-flow at the higher RPM's, but when paired with the right cam and intake, the low-RPM grunt was improved. Sounds like the 862 head is the sweet-spot, for balancing all the factors. Thanks for the awesome info. You should write a budget LS book. there are services that will print-on-demand and ship them for you (doesn't have to be shiny paper or color pics)
Sorry I listened to the entire video and this guy needs to cheer up.
Great 411 JR... keep up the great work.
Good information
Thanks
Thanks for watching!
I have a 5.3 with 862 heads and a LQ4. I was thinking the same as you...
LQ4 shortblock with the 862 heads, maybe smooth out the ports by hand, add a cam, and go party.
I heard an engineer from Texas Speed said that he’d give up port CFM for compression any day of the week, and it makes sense. Compression will increase power everywhere.
Back in the 70's and 80's the SAE did a bunch of studies because they dropped compression into the toliet to deal with unleaded gas.
Compression was the single largest factor in power and efficiency, and power rose faster than knock with compression, both static and dynamic. Power also fell off faster than knock.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Which is why Mazda in their skyactiv engines are like 14 or 15 to 1.
Yeah but you still need enough air or your choking the engine.
Ya TheDrivewayEngineer this is a great bit of info... appreciate your thoughts on 862 & 706 heads vs. Compression on a LQ4 vs. LQ9 Gen 3 LS
I'll take the compression every time, even if I were fortunate enough to come across an LQ9, I'd still run 862 heads
Thank you
6.0 block with a 4.8 crank. Do that build. Super cool info on this video. Thx
I've an LS motor and I can do burnouts with it as a stock chevy motor, no changes, none.
Agree on 862. I want to swap out my perimeter bolt heads on my LS1 and swap to 862 so bad.
Just left my local junkyard where I've located 3 LSs. 2 6.0s and a 5.3 one of the 6.0s even had the 4l80 in it!
There are a lot of guys at the local cruise night who should have bought shares in Summit before they started their build. I like your approach better. Cheeeeeeap horsepower!
Finally a guy that knows what he’s doing. Your not racing a flow bench!!!
Thanks
The first minute and a half of this vid had me hittin' that sub button 🤣
Sounds to me the numbers on the 862 is aluminum copies of the old 283 power pack heads thanks for the info and yes lowering the cc and upping the compression ratio is always better than shaving heads
For the record, and yes, I'm going to be that guy, Bob Lutz was a big 3 auto executive. Jeff Lutz is a drag week legend.
Eh, can't win em all lol
You are correct! And knowing is half the battle, yo joe!
Yeah well suck both Lutz.
Was looking for vids on this. Im piecing a lq4 together. Found the short block for $400 and 862 heads for 100. The heads have been checked out and cleaned so i jumped on em. I broke my ls1. #7 piston and messed up my 853's
I found a L59 at the local scrap yard and went hunting for hours to find 243’s to swap before I paid for it because I was told they were better.
Until I found out the L59 set up with the 846 heads makes 15 - 25hp over the more common 5.3 with other head combinations.
Still need to turn it over to make sure it’s solid. Still haven’t deleted VATs. But I did get a wrench to turn it by hand and the cycle feels clean.
This is what I want people to avoid precisely. To go to all that effort and expense, just to have a worse result.
Sell them to someone who doesn't watch my videos lol.
do u have 243's ur looking to get rid of?
@@v8powa466 nope, sold them the day I took them off
@@TheDrivewayEngineer sounds like CK_32 might have them.....
Dope video. .. thanks
Appreciate that
Smaller chambers equall cheap/more horesepower. Great video. You dont need big intake valves for the street. Not gonna use upprr Rpm's on the street.
Exactly, the small chamber heads beat the big valve heads everywhere but 7000 RPM regardless of what the flowbench says.
Your exactly correct my man GREAT JOB, KEEP UP ALL THE GREAT WORK👍.
Nice tech. tip Bro, gonna save me some cash
Good info
Slap in a cam, and let it eat. Seems like everything else people are spending hundreds of extra dollars on only nets like an extra 20 horse and costs an extra $1000+. That's just what I've learned from watching this channel and reading up in the facebook group. These engines are stupidly efficient in factory trim aside from the atrocious fuel and timing tables within the stock tune, and the little baby stock camshaft. That's why they respond so well to bigger cams and a solid tune.
I traded my old 350 four bolt main for a LQ9 and found a extra clean set of 823 heads with rockers for cheap,,,,, waiting on my summit cam,,,,,
Note: All LS heads have combustion chambers 3-5cc larger than what GM advertised. Please feel free to measure by cc’ing.
The changes in compression between the castings are legit; the actual compression will be lower than expected if you use the “advertised” chamber sizes when calculating. 👍
😎 awesomeness.
I love your candid view of the subject matter. No beatin' around the bush here.
I did a repower of my 01 2500HD 6.0 with a later ('03) 6.0 and used 862 heads with a stage 1 truck cam(Stage 1 NSR Truck Cam 206/212 .515/.522). Used stock drive by cable throttle body with stock truck manifold and flex fuel 5.3L injectors. ECM was tuned by Black Bear performance for 91 octane fuel for this cam and flex fuel injectors.
This truck never ran so good. Night and day difference. Instant throttle response with seat of the pants torque increase.
Thanks for steering me in the right direction on the proper head choice for my repower.
Keep the great videos coming!!!
Elsewhere on the Ytube , dyno results agree
“That Sum Bitch Jump a Coke can, Shuuuuuut”. Ha Ha Ha. Thanks for the helpful info and cracking me up!
We all know that guy lol. For me that guy is my Uncle Duane, who was pretty instrumental in getting me into cars in the first place lol.
Been trying to find this info for awhile...all the info I've read/watching has never layed it out in simply cut and dry form...thanks...
Glad it helped!
"You're stoooopid, I got sum hades on my car"😂😂😂😂 Had me dying from the jump, couldn't stop laughing through first half of video. Had to watch it again! " If you're Bob Lutts you don't need yo be watching my video"😂😂😂 "You're stoooooopid"
That's like 90% of the comments usually lol
@@TheDrivewayEngineer, my face was literally that emoji! My wife said" what the hell is wrong with you, why are you crying and laughing", all I could do was say" you're stooooopid" "shooooooot"! She's pissed now because I've been walking around the house the last 10 minutes repeating it over and over😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I agree with host about 862s but some are more volume in combustion chamber than 61cc. Some are much more like 64.5cc so do check their chamber volume or you may be disappointed if you looking for bolt on compression increase. The higher volume chamber heads are for CA nox reduction, just a theory.
Peter Fraumeni
It’s true that the chambers can vary in size, but that goes for any head. They could also be smaller as well; like some 317 heads measuring 67-68cc. On average, 862/706 heads with still have the smallest chambers.
Did you notice I said ...SOME?
Peter Fraumeni
Did you notice I agreed with you, stated that it could go either direction, and that it applies to any head?
IOW- Advertised chamber cc is essentially a rough “average”. 317s will typically be considerably bigger than a 862.
Whatever that is very interesting whats the best cam for power and what about that chopie cam idle do you need that or not sounds nice
👍tanks 🤠
LS2 came with 243 heads in the corvette and 2006 cts-v's also
I believe the LS4 got them as well
I got my 243's off a 2008 trail blazer ss
05-06 gto too as well as the 6.0 ssr.
Or a good majority of the early Gen IV 4.8's and 5.3's. I have 3 sets of 243s sitting here and not one of them came off of a 5.7 or 6.0.... They are just as much a run of the mill truck head as the 799 equivalents are. Same goes with the L33 5.3 Gen 3... either or. 243`s are not a special performance application head and why guys pay so much is more or less just ignorance. I left a set of 243`s last time out because they were on an LY2 4.8 in a 2008 van.. but yeah idiots here pay 300 dollars for cores because they somehow think they came from a Vette lol. Gen IV stuff is old now too lol...
PickardvilleSRT8 so all the 243 heads from corvettes, trucks and vans the same head?
Hey dude ,GREAT INFO. When you put in a cam that doesnt require new lifters, pushrods etc etc. do you still need to pull the heads, remove lifters to get old cam out and new one in?
cuz i dont own a Tq wrench or any special tools and trying to do this as cheap as possible.
ALSO, Ive got a 2002 5.3 witha sheared off manifold bolt. so far ive tried migging lumps on there to twist it out. then drilled it and broke off an etractor after it moved about 1/3 turn. then tried migging nuts on it only to have them twist off.
do you recomend i just use one of them clamps that use nearby holes to hold down the header/manifold flange or should i swap in another head i have from another 5.3 core or just keep tring to weld a nut on an remove?
i have a auto darkening welding mask in the mail so maybe that will help me weld better w/o flinching from flash.
Great video. Lots of info. If I change the compression ratio, or the cam, would I still be able to run stock computer? Thanks
Absolutely, it may need some tuning, but that's easy to find
I can get the 706 heads for 200.00 and they’re not the castech heads. 50.00 sounds nice but maybe people are catching on now LOL. These will also be on a LQ4 with a stage 2 or 3 low lift truck cam. I think it will be a stout setup for my K5 blazer that spends it days under 6000 rpm.
Matt from Sloppy tested some heads & had the same conclusion. Although the 241 & 243 heads outflowed the measly 706's, at the end of it all the lowly 706 made the most power.
Whoda thunkit?
Yeah, flowbench isn't everything lol
Yo ,im new to your channel,just wanted to know your take on my build ?because I too hear rumor about 243s.well I took my 706s off and put 243s on a 5.3..i kept the stock truck intake. flat top pistons along with btr stage 3 and beehive springs..dropping it in a g body..with a built 200r4.i have bug wheels but my rear end has 410 gearing ..respectfully for my first build what do u think?
I’m gonna say the head that comes with the moter
Would it be a good idea to put 2 inch valves in the 862 heads?
Yeurr stuuped! I gotz hedz on muhh carrr!
Just kidding. This is the best channel for everything i want to accomplish with my LM7 swap.
:D
Got them 862 boys on my yukon already and all I had to do was buy the vehicle. Just gotta stick a whipple supercharger on it get 500hp ish out of the engine like I want and have fun :D
Hey JR, love your TH-cam videos! I love your emphasis on most gains for cheap and minimal screwing around. I have a question tho. I have a 2012 GMC Sierra 1500 (5.3 LC9) and Im about to do the DOD delete along with other PM since its at 150K miles. I found a dirt cheap set of 862 heads I wanted to throw on while I was doing that so I rewatched this video that inspired me to get those. And my question is, how is it possible that the 243 stock heads I have now, with 64.45cc chamber have a 10.5:1 compression ratio but the 862 stock heads with 61.15cc chamber have 9.5:1 CR? Thanks man, I appreciate it
Because you have newer Gen IV stuff, so the piston volume and everything is different.
My videos tend to focus on Gen III stuff because it's cheaper and easier to swap.
What you got right: bumping compression for your LQ4 with 862 heads gets you in the 10.5+ to 1 range and will be ideal for nat asp h/p on pump gas.
What you fail to mention: For LQ9 which already has 10 to 1 compression, the 862 heads would put you over 11 to 1 and out of the pump gas range. The 243s may be a better choice for ideal compression ratio on that platform and im seeing them everywhere right now for $300 which is a great value.
First, I wouldn't bother paying extra for an LQ9.
But if there was one in the yard, I would still take it and still put 862's on it.
My LQ4 runs 87 octane with them, both of my LQ4's do in fact.
I guess I'd probably move to premium at 11:1, but it's hardly out of pump gas range, the LS7 is 11:1 from the factory.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer if an lq9 (flat top piston)with 64cc chambers is 11 to 1 compression, then the 862s with 61cc chambers are going to detonate on pump gas. Now your pulling your motor apart and buying dished pistons.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'd run it all day
Thanks for the knowlge im doing a 5.3 ls3 swap in a 84 300zx and im doing a full rebuild pistons. Cam heads valve cover everything to a stage 2 or 3 i want to hit the tracks and race for real but im still tryna figure out what is the best way to build it any input is appreciated
What is your intake on port and polish?
862 heads surve a purpose. But out power everything is an overstatement.
I picked up a core l99 6.2 for 40.00 for 823 heads and gen 4 rods. Took it apart all was wrong with it was broke valve spring. All bearings looked new. What i found out is they will replace a engine for blown head gaskets or anything in this day and time.
Yeah, transmissions are the same, alot of shops will just say "rebuild" to any problem, then you find out they are just swapping remans, not even doing the work.
I was in a local place that didn't even have a fixture lol
@@TheDrivewayEngineer alot crooked shops. This engine looked new on the inside it blew my mind how they could do someone like that. Someone paid to put in a new engine and all it was was a 1hr fix
Are you still going to do a video on a “all motor” build???? I need ideas on my lq4 build. Thanks
That's what these 862 heads are for
Concerning 706/862 heads, I have measured the throat on several pairs and noticed they are in the 1.74 range. That is around 92% throat to valve diameter. Isn't that unfavorable? I have always heard 88%-90% tops is what you want for good throttle response low lift flow street deal.