BMW E30 M3 vs E46 M3 CSL vs M2 Competition - what is the best M Car of all time? | Autocar Heroes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2019
- So which is it to be? What is the greatest ever product of BMW's performance arm, the M Division?
Is it the BMW E30 M3, the compact 3-Series that was homologated for the road to go racing and, to many, is the epitome of an M car?
Could it be the E46 M3 CSL, the lightweight, hardcore version of that generation M3, which had one of the finest engines ever made?
Or could it be the car we're bookending the feature with, the very latest M2 Competition?
Or is there one we've missed?
Join our testers Mauro Calo and Matt Prior as they try to decide what is the greatest driver's BMW ever.
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E46 M3 CSL
The 1M would have been in good company as well.
nahhh. that car is just too overhyped. 1m sounds liek a vacuum cleaner
@@Levente20 What do you drive?
Looks like i see you everywhere shitting on cars.
1M don't have a M engine
Best sounding M car.... How about that howling v10 in the old m5?
I felt it didn't sound as good as the specs suggested it might. That same engine in the Weismann Gt tuned to 550bhp sounded the way I'd hoped the M5 would.
The old m5/m6 only sounds good with an updated induction and exhaust, stock they don’t sound as good as they should
I agree m5 v10 best sounding m car but the e46 m3 csl would b my favourite by far
Agree plus the e92 sounds better too..
Stock sounds good, but a set of Eventuri intakes balances out the noise so well, sounds just incredible in the car.
I love the M3 CSL and for me the M2 Comp is as close as it can be to it for being the best M car ever engineered.
One thing I notice that's most common on M car reviews and not much on AMG and RS cars is the amount of chuckle from the driver and passenger while driving the car.
darkknight that’s cause they’re truly having Freude am Fahren ;)
Probably need the E39 M5 there as well.
No M5 at all? Surely the first one should be involved in the greatest M cars.
The e28 m5 in its day was as fast as a Ferrari. Yes. It should have been on this list.
Sounds like reviewers never drove it. Lame. E28 M5 was the best M5
Fast Wong it’s ugly though
S54 best sounding m engine
S65 v8 : am I a joke to you
S85 v10 : we must be a joke to them
The S50 in the E36 M3 sounds better than the S54
@@seanoconnor8135 wrong
@@KRBY555 S54 induction noise is awesome, but S50 exhaust sounds much better
@@seanoconnor8135 Especially with a carbon intake.
S38 sounds best.
10:23
“This is the best sounding m car ever made”
As much as I want to agree and believe me I really do, you can’t go past that S85 V10.
THAT is the best sounding M engine ever made
Fact.
Definitely.
Although you have to give BMW credit for these straight-6 engines of the 90s and early 2000s, the M50-M52-M54 in particular. They are not even 'M' engines, just regular engines put into the 20i-30i range, and they sound heavenly and have the characteristics of a real sports engine. I own a E36 328i convertible and even stock I loved this car. Now it's been tinkered with and does around 240-ish hp, I put the E46 M3 complete exhaust under it, the suspension received some love, too, and even though it's no 'M' car, it drives and feels much like a real sports car. It's also very reliable even with more than 250k kilometres on the clock, with preventive maintenance, it barely ever gave me any trouble even after the modifications. BMW was really good at making their more regular cars feel special back then. Today, not so much. I'd love to try the M2 though. It has some of the old 'M' charm in it.
Having owned the M5 and having driven the CSL, they are both up there for me, but the CSL is just a tad louder insider and takes the win for me. On the outside, the V10 with an exhaust is unbeatable.
I dunno mate. The S58 has a roar for sure, but the S54 with it's induction noise is just special. Even the non CSL can be opened up or use velocity stacks. It's a sound you have to be in the car to truly enjoy. Then the rasp/crackle of a perfect gear change in those things is divine.
They probably mean the induction noise, was much louder in the s54 than s85 especially in CSL
I don't comment often but I have driven E30 M3, M2 owned E46 M3, E92 M3 and a 1M and have to say the 1M was the most fun and enjoyable out of the lot.
why? it doesnt even have sound for god sake. even an m4 sounds better then that
Chris Harris is a big fan too and he's knows what he's on about when it comes to driving dynamics. The 1 M is a naughty car
@@Levente20 so you think the sound defines a great car? He's talking about it being a driver's car.
The 1M is super cool.
Aluminium hood was standart for all E46 M3s; not only reserved for CSL.
E30 around 1200KG, CSL 1300, M2 with the M engine, best part of 1600KG. While it's a good car, it's just a bit too heavy for the model (smallest coupe in the range). I've owned two E30 M3's. Also enjoyed a Z4 M Coupe. I think my vote would go to the CSL too - the engine in the Z4 was pretty awesome, so another 20HP + less weight and fantastic induction sound I can imagine would be the ultimate M car.
Yes the e46 had its problems and is by no means the fastest m car. But for me it was the best package by far. E46 m3 imola red manual gearbox is still my favourite car ever
Bro but M3 gtr nfs was a masterpiece not m3 e46
The best M car is the one that's not broken, so... not my E60.
Awww lol
To the Top comment.
@Mugen Can't argue with that, mine has been well cared for but sees regular track and autocross use. If that counts as abuse then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
E46 csl hands down....the engine noise alone is just....mmmmmmm
Thats just the intake. Throw a carbon airbox on any of the m cars and you get similar results.
moneypit
The transmission is a fucking joke in that car. Smg is awful.
Also an s38 with a nice exhaust is easily one of the best sounding engines ever made.
The gearbox isn't that bad it's tech for its time and is perfectly acceptable today
@@TheJoesmoe1987 not sure about that I've druven an smg e46 and it had the software upgrade. It was woeful
M3E30 & Z3 M COUPE the best for me!
Great video! Good driving, interesting conversations, good conclusions. Very nice!
The E92 M3. NA V8 8400rpm, proper race engine. Brilliant chassis. A lot faster than an E46. Perfect grip to power ratio. Feels special even on the way to the shops. DCT slams home with proper feel. Hydraulic steering. Still too fast for British roads and a sound that can’t be matched. Only place to go next is a GT3. Last of the classic E chassis cars that lasted 40 years. New BMWs are throwaway Tupperware. This is a classic already.
These Heroes series is awesome! Keep 'em coming, Autotrader!
When i was younger in the early 2000's my dream car was the E46 M3 CSL. Still today its my favourite BMW along with the E92 M3 GTS.
Fantastic video and awesome driving! Previously owning an E46 M3, it makes me very happy to hear someone else make the F1 sound comparison.
The S54 has one of the most awesome induction sounds short of the aforementioned. The fact that it sounds similar is the closest I will get to owning a McLaren F1 and mine didn’t even have the carbon airbox of the CSL..
I’ve been lucky enough to find myself in the driver’s seat of an F1 LM, sadly the ignition was off :(
Edit: just watched again and man is this guy on point with the S54. 4,500rpm is right on when that engine just sings before you rev it out. I used to let mine pur next to the wall on the highway and just listen to the howl it made (headers, high flow cats, Dinan rear)
I still have a e46 m3 i loved this car when I was 18 and i bought mine 7years ago... this is the best car i’ve ever driven.
Best m cars without m5's?
autocar is really bang on it at the moment! great video lads
What's so great? Just personal views and little about each car.
Excellent video by Autocar..I am loving it!!
The E46M3 is the best M car! But im super biased cuz i own two lol! Love the new M2s, the e36 is great too!
Duffmanb6 - I’m perhaps biased (as I owned one previously), but I was surprised that there was no love for the e36 M3. To me, you’ve got the compelling nature of a lithe and nimble car like the e30 and the blunt (but controlled) force of the M2....while being a big porky as most modern cars are. The e36 was a wonderful compromise of those two sets of virtues to me. I’m probably in the minority as I didn’t care much for the e46 platform other than the garden variety 330i with a manual (had one of those too)
Best looking m car is the e36 for myself and best m car Deffo e46
E36 has always been my favourite BMW... :-)
Agree, E36 M3 is a great car with a lot of love from a big fan base. I have an M2 Comp and E36 M3 and the M3 is so much more alive and full of feel.
You have 2? Lucky 🍀
Best sounding M cars:
1. 4cyl E30 M3 (the only 4cyl)
2. 6cyl E36 M3 (E46 too raspy, F80 is just farting)
3. 8cyl E92 M3 (E39 a bit lumpy, like a US V8)
4. 10cyl E60 V10 M5 (the only V10)
Totally agree mate...love that little 4 banger screaming at 9k rpm
Great review guys
Z4 M Roadster with the S54 was my favourite to drive. Roof down, amazing engine sound and it was always asking to be chucked into 3rd and floored! Loved that it was a bit rough around the edges as you felt more of that brilliant engine.
Man that M3 CSL, what a car. Fond memories of being with my Uncle allays and his 3.0 CSL. Simon
I love it that they are wearing classic affordable timepieces to match the occasion
E60 M5 hands down. Drive it with paddles in most aggressive mode and all is good. No it's not unreliable, keep up with maintenance and it'll look after you. It's a tight tolerance V10, warm it up good before thrashing it. Only thing that's gone wrong with mine was a cracked rear subframe from the way I drive it. Cars on E85 with tune,headers,intake and pulley. Majority of people commenting about being unreliable probably never owned one and just go by what they see on TH-cam.
The best looking BMW of all time is the E31, hands down. What a beautiful car, the design is timeless and breathtakingly gorgeous from every angle. Even the interior has got a design that still looks amazing today.
I love seeing all the 1m comments ! Amazing little series.
Would love to see a test of the 3 baby M cars back to back, 1m coupe, m2 original and m2 comp to see how different or similar they are....
Great review
What a great clip ,i agree with pretty much all of your views,great car control too
You missed the 1M Coupe
Not as good as M2 in any way.
Because the M2 is far better
Good, but not great
@@derbigpr500 Most people who have driven both would disagree, including a certain Mr Chris Harris. The M2C is a different beast to the M2 but it feels like a completely different type of car to the 1M. It's far more modern, luxuriuos and refined. As an overall package I would agree, it's better. But as a drivers car I think the 1M takes it.
@@yetidh9 Nailed it. 1M FTW. Hydraulic steering. Only manual. Wide body. M3 Comp underpinning. Very limited numbers. Generally worth more 9 years on than they were new. 👌
1M should be here.
what I like about the e46 is it feels like the last of the classic bimmer formula. The gauge cluster layout (e90 was changed) various parts of the suspension geometry (many revisions with the e90, adding more moving components with a more ‘vague’ steering feel as many journalists said at the time) the NA straight 6, the uncluttered dash without any sort of idrive, and... a dipstick ;)
Curtis Lovrak I would agree with you, if the CSL had been given a manual box. The SMG ruins it. A better car is the E46 CS with manual box.
the CSL is one of three cars ever that can bring a smile on my face everytime I see it
I’ve had an E30, 3 E36’s and an E46, but the E92 M3 was the best of the bunch for me. The only thing possibly better? An M2 Competition with an S65 V-8 in it!
or S65 V12
Thank you guys for the most exiting ultimate driving machines ride you gave me 🤗 , it feels like i was on the back seats of all of them. ☝️😅
Great, those videos make us dream about owning at least one of them, and BTW, i think the 1M Coupé has a place in this video, i dont really think its an "old" M2
I like Autocar but these 2 guys are just talking out of their arses....
1. E30 M3 - ultimate classic, must have if you are a collector
2. 1M - the one I'd have, if I had to choose only one of them
3. E60 M5 - meanest looking adn you can't beat the V10 sound
Yep yep yep, great video lads! Love my Comp :-)
Great video, interesting point of views
How can you discuss the Best M Car of All Time and not have the E39 M5?! Hmmm
Because more space for family? come on... 1800kg.
Best video of 2019 !!
Great to see that csl being chucked about like that 👏🏻👏🏻
I would add the e60 m5 ,the f80 m3 cs and surely the e92 m3 gts to the list
I can not argue their decision.. however.. That E30 is just stunning looking going through those twisties.
Something to be said for not drifting around every corner and exiting in a cloud of wasted rubber.
Probably because it's even harder to replace or fix than a CSL. Someone trusted them with that thing.
Years ago i worked on a e30 which had a e46 engine with a 2nd generation m5, for me that was perfect, felt so comfy and drove so nice but god it shifted.
That for me would be my ideal mix personally
If you are a mechanic or have the money and interest to keep it, go for the E60 M5 straight pipe it
Great video. This is the difference between listening to journos with years’ of experience and who can drive a bit versus 20-something youtubers or influencers.
I'm lucky enough to have owned all three models, and I agree entirely with the boys analysis and conclusion - nice to hear honesty about drawbacks but I think you can drive around those present in the older cars, whereas its harder to be tolerant of those in a new model. History makes the heart grow fonder though...
1M should be there
Nice vid
I have owned all them, the best is the BMW 1M, followed by the Z3M Coupe with the S54, also known as the Clownshoe. See my comparison test
1M = E30 size, fantastic 6MT, modern power, light-weight, hydraulic steering, it is the best combination of M.
M2 Competition, tuned to 500hp, sport suspension, wing; good car. Stock not so much 249 laps Ring.
This comparison can’t be made without E92!!! Good video though!
Dude in the leather jacket could be a character from a Guy Ritchie movie.
I’ve been lucky to own a lot of dream cars from 911’s to 458 but my M3 CSL is in my all time top 3 cars . Killer car 🔥⚡️❤️
15:15 - Totally agree with Mauro, best thing I've heard about what makes an M car
What no 1M Coupe????
CSL with Manual Swap and that's the best M car possible.
Where is the place that this was filmed?
E46 M3 CS with a manual gearbox? (this was available to purchase new in the UK).
Ive had my csl nearly ten years still love it as when i first bought it never had a problem with the gearbox its part of the car, love the way it drives,handles the balance of it the noise is addictive never get tired of it.every time I go out in it the car draws a lot of attention ive never seen another csl only at shows get one if you can😀
I got csl cars 😜😜
Gonna buy a 991.2 gr3rs and see how much better it is. Straight pipes
It's like listening to two old biddies on a park.bench.
Love it! 😄
Anyone know what wheels are on the M2 Competition? Doesn't look like stock color.
My little grain of salt on that, the best thing I remember about the e30 m3 was how telepathic the front end was. So well balanced, you look at the apex, you turn, simple as that, the true little sister would be the 318iS e30, same kind of feeling behind the wheel. My 325iS feels so nose heavy compared to those two, but hey they are so different somehow. Still a pleasure to drive those old cars
I had an E46 M3 with a manual box, it was just awesome, slick short throw, for all you got in a CSL extra, the standard M3 was just as good.
What about the e28, e24, e34? Better yet what about the first M badged 5 series, the e12? There are so many other great M cars, but it’s always the e30 and e46 shown in reviews.
What about the Z4 M coupe??
I’ve got the e46 M3 coupe manual and have loved the Z4 3.0 Si Roadster. I can only imagine how much better that car would be with an S54 on it.
I have a Z4M Coupe and I have to admit it is an intoxicating car; on the negative side, the suspension set up is not ideal but its S54 engine more than makes up for the shortcomings
I owned an E46 325Ci (Monaco Blue in M sport special edition kit) for 6 years before upgrading to a 4WD (Pajero) (side note - I own the final gen/NX model and since its now been discontinued im wondering would it become a classic like the 90s Prados or Y61 Patrols??) ... Anyway, am thinking of now getting a second car to park parallel to the 4wd and am seriously thinking of either an F87 M2 or E46 M3
I was lucky enough to own one of the first 200 E30 M3's that was hand made in Garmish. I went everywhere around Europe in that car and the only issue I had were two dealers in the UK did not know how to work on it (Including Sytner). A fantastic car in every way. I have never since driven a car that steered as well. It may not be as fast as a hot hatch these days but as a driving machine it was near perfection and to be honest how often do people travel in excess of 140mph in the UK anyway. Mine was sold to a BMW fanatic and was featured in a "Top Marques" documentary on BMW's. Great car, great days.
Wouldnt it have more sense to include the E30 M3 sport evo, since the other two are the top versions there were of then current M3’s?
Loved the CSL segment, best looking car ever made. ( in my opinion )
E46 Version for me all day long.. Best looking version of the BMW ever.
Wow. Brilliant video. CSL all day. PS These two presenters are two of the best imo!!!!!
Agreed, when overall looks, power, handling, balance is taken into consideration. There are lots of other M cars that does each of those things better, maybe with the exception of looks (totally subjective) but as an overall package, I think it had to be the CSL.
A modded/lightened E90 (or E92 but four doors is nice) is the best for me (why I bought and modded one), best engine sound under the E6X V10, last of the good hydraulic steering, and with a small amount of chassis/suspension mods it is very balanced and easy to exploit on track with amazing feel. People are constantly impressed at the track and I have to explain it is the car not me!
It's one you 've missed. Either the V10 M6, or the V8 M3, depending on tastes.
@J B Ι could not agree more mate. I would have chosen a Cayman though. since Ferraris are out of reach...
CSL for sure. Apart from the gearbox it's one of the most perfect cars BMW ever made. Looks epic, sounds epic, drives epic. However, I have a soft spot for the M4 GTS. Many people hate it but I just love that car. They got so close to making another perfect car but failed with the stiff suspension and super-expensive price. But I still love it.
Do your research guys - the E46 M3 CSL is 1385kg in it's lightest derivation (no air-con etc). The fully optioned cars are over 1400kg (and both these measurements are with only 10 litres of fuel). Also the seat is actually based off the Recaro SPG without the harness holes (not the Pole Position).
I agree with the comments about the gearbox (even though this is subjective), but on the track (which is where BMW intended for this car to live), it does come into it's own and offers a raw track experience that suits the gearbox. Where I miss a manual is pottering around at 5/6 tenths on the road, as the extra involvement of heel and toe rev matches leads to you wanting to drive the car at licence losing speeds to get the best from the SMG gearbox.
Good comment, but its heel* 😉 Thanks for weight clarification, no wonder M2 Competition is so comparable (and faster)
@@nessuno5403 I blame auto correct :p ;).
@@nessuno5403 M2 Competition Nurburgring lap time 7.52, M3 CSL 7.50..... Now given that the 2003 lap is acknowledged to be slower than the 2018 one (due to track / surface improvements), the actual true gap is even wider :p ;). Although I suspect straight line is all you're talking about LOL?
@@MikeRT4 yes, sorry, I was cheating with standstill acceleration... and better tyres! Then again, many now consider the Nurburgring lap times irrelevant and the M2C is more fun as a drift machine
@@nessuno5403 You mean the kind of people that don't do track days or have never been to the 'ring? Not my kind of people :p ;). They might as well be vegans as far as I am concerned LOL.
I recently sold my E46 M3 6MT and I now drive an M2C DCT. I had to laugh when you were talking about an E46 M3 CSL with the DCT and the torque of an M2C. I guess that's the very definition of Unobtainium. In North America, we couldn't order the E46 M3 CSL, at any price, so we have to compare a regular E46 M3, not a CSL. I loved my E46 M3, but I deeply disliked the transmission, even with an AutoSolutions 30% shifter and CDV delete. The S54 engine sounded great, but due to the lack of torque, it wasn't very accessible. I also didn't like the cheap coated interior components. For me, the flaws of the E46 M3 are taken care of in the M2C, and then some. It's easily my favourite of the two. I haven't driven an E30 M3 and while it seems to be an amazing car from everything I've ever heard, I have so much fun in my M2C, I think it's easily my favourite of all three.
Everybody seems to forget the limited run e46 M3 CS, most of the best bits of the Csl, more attainable price and manual gearbox option..
E46 M3 is a good car beside the....SMG,Vanos,Subframe Cracked,Rod bearings.....
Blah blah blah. Still a good car regardless of any issue
True, but if you've got cash you can deal with those. And modern cars just don't give you the same feeling. The CSL was special, which is of course why prices went up
So, I reckon I’m sort of qualified to comment here having owned a e30m3 and 2 46m3’s. Admittedly I havnt tried the latest M2 but I would have one parked in the garage if I had the finances. As for the result, yes, the CSL is everything I would want in an M car and I would have a SMG box to play with on track especially at the ring where having both hands on the wheel is beneficial. I liked the e30 but I felt my 328sport was the better track car. My 46 m3 has been here for 10 years now and I honestly can’t fault it. I absolutely love my 46 m3 and with its genuine bootlid, rear diffuser, Center console, wheels and nappa recaro pole positions it’s just about perfect for trips to the shops and the ring 👌🏻
Love them all
M3 csl recreated with a manual or DCT would be amazing!
What about making a comparison between 911 992 and 718 GT4?
I have an E39 M5 (gorgeous complete car for my needs) but I REALLY want an E30 M3!
I'd love to see the E92 M3 GTS versus the M2 competition on a track. Wonder which would be faster
Do a review on Ferrari 360 challenge stradale vs 430 scuderia vs 458 speciale
M3 GTR
I am blessed to be buying a e46 m3 this week. When I test drove it I could not help but continue to ask myself “what was BMW thinking when they built this thing?”
The induction noise of the csl is worldy
Should have included the 1M!
missing the e82 1m coupe!!!