the best part about Cinder's chess piece in atlas, is that it wasn't even in accordance to Salem's plan. *she literally did that just to fuck with Ironwood*
Yeah like lionheart was already a traitor and he was a member of ozpins inner circle so he would have knowledge of something like ironwood's semblance it's strengths and it's weakness then relaying that information to Salem she had atlas and ironwood's downfall planned even before volume 5 damn she is good at dismantling the people most loyal to ozpin
It is scary to know that the enemy has been using Ironwood to continue their plans, which makes you realize that Watts working for Ironwood gave Salem the advantage she needed
Also when you consider that throughout volume 7 and 8 ironwood preaches about trust throughout those volumes, but if you go back to 2 and 3 it shows that ironwood never truly believe in trust nor earn trust for that matter. He always went behind ozpins back and alter things for his favor. Even with Glynda, he try to manipulate her into trusting him over Ozpin. He was the perfect soldier to manipulate because he never really trusted anyone as much as he claims he would.
@@importedglue891 And with the way how Ozpin was being crypt about his intentions, it doesn't really help anyone, even if we could understand why he did it.
@@justanotherguy1782 Basically Salem play both Ozpin and Ironwood. I bet that why she choose now to strike. Ozpin just made things way easier for her. Most likely she even condition Ozpin to be crypt with all those suppose allies constant bretaryal.
Imagine you are someone from one of the other kingdoms with no idea of the madness happening in Atlas in Volume 8. All you get are two random broadcasts from two teenager huntsmen who hacked into the CCTV, and then the feed suddenly cutting out. Incomplete message can be worse than no message at all, since it makes it even more confusing. Ruby: "Atlas is under attack by Salem. There's something about relics and maidens; ask the headmasters, they will explain. Oh, and Ironwood cannot be trusted." *cuts out* Jaune: "Atlas is falling. But..." *cuts out*
If we’re being technical only the people in Atlas and Mantle heard Jaune’s broadcast, they were using the kingdom wide broadcasting not worldwide. That doesn’t take away from what you’re say though, just thought I should point it out.
I was thinking about that after sometime after the episode. Its not really "creating" something, but just moving it higher. Matter of fact, would Ambrosius still follow through because there is no plan.
“All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.” ― Sun-Tzu
@@thatawesomeguy6288 Then he used his fight money to buy 2 of every animal on earth. And then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the Crap out of every single one!
@@thelegendaryascendingdrago4428”When you find the head of the operation, you chop him off!” Attila said that! And I’d say he knows a little more about decapitation than you do, pal because he invented it!
Now it all makes sense. This has got to be one of the most cleverly written plots that expanded throughout the volumes. It's Zuko's redemption arc in reverse! Rather than becoming a better man, General Ironwood played right into Salem and her lackeys plan since Beacon. It's saddening, honestly. But at the same time, it's also realistic. People in power who had good intentions originally can become corrupt or if pushed the wrong way, go down a path that is the total opposite to their original intentions. But it's still saddening to how it had to be an honest and well respected man like Ironwood.
It’s too bad all of this is lost when you watch the volumes. This idea could have worked so much better of it was written better in the episodes these scenes were in
For this all to work they would have needed to know team RWBY would betray Ironwood leading to mistrust, that ironwood would abandon mantle without using private transport like Wiess tries this volume, The winter maiden to be out of his reach which was a rogue plan by cinder. When you hyper-focus on certain parts of a story you can make anything make sense but as a whole, there were way too many options and idiotic moves by everyone for this to seem brilliantly planned. Salem lucked out that everything worked. If cinder didn't attack ironwood would be out of reach and she would have wasted all that time.
@@av799 We have these scenes and when isolated they are good. But if you watch the full episodes, (and volumes), all you will get is a character that had no sense of development and idiotic ideas.
@@KuroJet isnt he as guilty of War Crimes as the rest of the Ace Ops, Attacking innocent freedom fighters and other stuff. I'm confused on where I stand on the Ace Ops.
Ironwood was doomed the moment he brought his army to Beacon. And we never realized until now. _Holy shit..._ It wasn't just Ironwood who was played. We _ALL_ were. We thought all of this mess with James started around Volume 4 or so, maybe even at Volume 7, but no. It was all planned. And we never knew. Damn.
I mean Leo was already a traitor by then and it would explain why Cinder had that virus in the first place. It be so odd to have such a virus that controls mecha and everything if Ironwood wouldn't bring his army over. The virus was design for Ironwood fleet he would most likely bring the whole time.
Yeah, it took me a while to realize, but Ironwood's villain arc, his downward spiral, and his ultimate defeat were all set in place the moment we first were introduced to him.
THANK YOU! This is the fundamental tragedy of Ironwood. He may be behaving like a villain now, but he is as much a victim as anyone else in Remnant. All of his strength and resolve have been twisted and turned against him through manipulation on a massive scale, a sophisticated ploy which quickly adapted when needed ( plus had some lucky breaks like when Cinder placed the pawn ). A separate point: his failings are grave, but so are those of the people around him up to his final break from decency. The council in fear of a repeat of Beacon let him take more and more power. Subordinates like Winter chose to tie loyalty to blind obedience, rather than truly challenging him sooner. The citizenry of Atlas acquiesced to his repression of Mantle since they were kept in relative comfort. Again and again he was allowed to shoulder all the burdens of the world, when those around him should have demanded he shared the burden whether he wanted to or not.
Yea people calling him to easy to manipulate and weak need to realize after Oz reincarnated he basically become the head honcho, while having to carry the most powerful country in the world. That a lot for one man and unlike Oz he doesn’t have life times to make him ready
@@richardpattarozzi8975 Would it change if Ruby and her company told Ironwood the truth early when they first meet in V7 Episode 2 or will it make things worse? I mean they treated Ozpin like shit for hiding the truth from them yet they did the exact same thing on Ironwood.
@@rexlumontad5644 probably would have went differently to be honest, but we also have to remember Salem would adapt to the change so who knows if it would change anything. But lying didn’t help
@@rexlumontad5644 I don’t know that the lie means RWBY and co treated him like crap. Choosing to lie at first was one of the experiences RWBY and co needed to come to terms with what Ozpin had done, “a mile in my shoes” and such. When they arrived mantle looked like a dystopian police state. Even if it felt uncomfortable it was a prudent move to hold tight to some of their cards, particularly any which might push Ironwood over the edge. They still dedicated themselves to helping him though I.
I don’t think ironwood is a villain, I think he’s a tragic fallen hero. I believe that after Salem showed herself in his office he just let his semblance completely take over with one singular goal: Save Atlas, Whatever It Takes.
A Fallen Hero is more of an antagonist than a villain. Poor Ironwood snapped all because of the paranoia, Salem, Yang and Blake going behind his back to tell Robyn about the Amity CCT. He was an antagonist to RWBY in the end, the villain still ends up being: Salem and Cinder. Whilst I haven’t watched Rwby all the way through V9, I can still see where Ironwood still tried todo good even if it made him look bad. A saying from Tywin lannister from GOT: "A lion doesn’t concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." That’s how I see it from my perspective.
It just kills me that the last time we see Ironwood truly happy is "Gravity", when he was working with others and succeeding. He had everything, but then Cinder stomped all over his trauma and sent him into a spiral that doomed the whole kingdom. Cinder may think she's the black Queen, but the symbol's only ever used with Ironwood. It's Salem's little inside joke: the best ally is a predictable enemy.
Thank you for making this. This will definitely explain a lot to people, especially those who complain saying that Ironwood’s descent into insanity makes no sense even though the series, since Vol 3, has been hinting at this happening.
watts played a large part in this, he had insider knowledge of how ironwood thought and would react. If he'd faced a enemy of similar intelligence then his weakness with his paranoia and semblance would have been discovered.
Well, yeah. A lot of people say Ironwood's little turn is just random and out of nowhere, but honestly he's been an unwitting piece on Salem's board almost since day one. Even during the Fall, he unknowingly played what was likely the single biggest part in Beacon's demise. It certainly doesn't help that now it looks like he isn't taking care of himself physically OR mentally, leading to all these horrible decisions and last-minute plans with all the tactical grace of a rusty sledgehammer. To the enemy he's an open book at best, and a mild nuisance at worst.
What's worse is that he made the Fall of Beacon hit harder with his robots. The Vytal Festival was supposed to be a peace treaty, and yet he paraded his ominous looking military forces to the festival despite Ozpin's protest against bringing them out. And so they played the biggest part in the fall of beacon
@@RioPheonix35555 Yeah people said he help in the breach no he didn't he just made Beacon fall harder with those robot of his since i bet a lot of Huntsman got caught off guard by the robot turning the guns on them.
If you really think about it, how much further could have Ironwood gone off the deep end? Salem changed plans when Oz reincarnated back, she was gonna go for Vacuo before Atlas. Imagine how bad Ironwood's mental health would've declined if he was the last kingdom standing and could call upon no reinforcements. Salem knew what she was doing and it worked.
Respectfully, I disagree. Sure their endgame may have been to show that but their execution was done poorly imo. Especially when it makes our "heroes" come off as liars and hypocrites.
Wow..... Even now, there's still ppl trying to say Ironwood is a victim only. As a former soldier myself, I understood him & his actions early on. But, I also saw the thin line he was walking then, too. It was too obvious... He was too depended on intel and had no faith in other folks. And Salem saw him as open opportunity!!! She played him into almost every move he made, thinking they were his alone. Everything else, his mind predictably took in and fed his distrust & fear. Truth is, he was too top heavy..... Running the military, Atlas Academy, & Altas/Mantle?!? Salem & co. just kept tipping him til the weight crushed him!! And the sad part is that James will have to live with this. Could any of us live with that, really?? He was a victim.... who became a victimizer! Sad and understandable, but still someone who has to pay for what he's done. Not death..... But, he must pay. 😥🙏
He has his semblance called Mettle, which literally which basically make go through any hard and unethical decision no matter how hard it may be. Also the fact that it is a passive semblance and he has no control over it can make him easily tunnel vision to the point of stupidity.
@@tobyrogers754 actually, you CAN control passive semblances to a degree. it's confirme qrow can spike his, for example. and i don't think it FORCED him to go through, i think it was an on-off passive, like a buff spell in a game
@@danielwilson8604, I think they meant that Ironwood depended too much on info from his his own forces and some of Ozpin’s group, that he didn’t see the bigger picture of how some info can mean something that can’t be solved by simply facing it head on.
@@jetblazethunder3596 I completely agree, that’s the only thing that SERIOUSLY bothered me about his character; he had a major weakness and it was hardly acknowledged in the show
@@peachiibee Maybe he purposely kept his semblance in the dark, or that even he doesn’t know it because most Semblances are flashy, like Ruby’s mass-speed (that’s what I’m calling it), Pyra’s Magnetics, or Weiss’ Glyphs.
@@smellyuncle that’s actually a pretty good point and def would make sense! but it still would’ve been nice (and better writing in a technical sense) to have some sort of clearer signal to the viewers that there was something out of his control forcing him to become a bad guy bc a lot of people don’t fully realize how much his semblance screwed him over. not sure how they would’ve shown it if what u say is true, but regardless it’s kinda weird that he’s got this major thing about him that people don’t really know about unless they look things up outside of the show itself. hopefully it might come up in a later volume.
y'know, ironwood could have been great. i was rooting for him too, despite the constant foreshadowing of his descent into madness, but he's beyond redemption at this point. for all it's worth, he is a man whose only goal is to serve the people. his policies and orders are questionable, yes, but one must commend him for doing what he thought was right. no matter how misguided and antagonistic the execution of it turned out to be, the motive behind it is pure.
Also, his semblance is Mettle, allowing him to just focus on doing one thing or one decision without hesitations. So I'm guessing now that his aura is broken, he might snap out of it.
This does an amazing job of removing any doubt that this was a long term operation to mold Ironwood into exactly what the villains wanted him to be. I've read so many opinion pieces saying that CRWBY was ruining a character by suddenly making him the bad guy, but as this piece shows it was so much more than that. The layers upon layers of deception, paranoia, fear, and distrust are slowly brought to the surface, and the man who remains is the result. I don't see him surviving past this volume but if by some chance he did then it will be interesting to see if he doubles down on his defense for his actions or if he will finally be remorseful and genuinely sorry for everything he did wrong.
Ironwood will double down with gusto. Even before the fall of Beacon Ironwood’s personality is very much “only MY plan(s) will work” it’s partially due to him being the General in charge of Atlas’ entire military & the academy. He’s used to everyone going with whatever he says because of his authority either out of respect for him/his titles or out of fear of what will happen to them. Remember after Qrow & Winter’s duel in Volume 3 Ironwood told Qrow “if you were one of my men I’d have you shot” it’s played as a joke but remember some militaries up until real recent used to execute soldiers for disobeying orders. So how serious was that “threat/joke”.
Even though I find myself more in the anti-RWBY camp then the pro, I will give CRWBY credit where it's due. They did a great job with developing ironwood the way they did. They managed to a strong, confident, and somewhat sympathetic character into a terrified despot unwittingly playing to the villians tune long after his kingdom is secured.
Ironwood's mettle semblance is probably the worst you can get. Not only does it not give you any "cool" external visible abilities, it is actually detrimental in giving you a tunnel vision in only seeing and going in one path. He's basically an avalanche waiting to happen. Just need a small nudge and you can manipulate him into a predictable course of action.
not really. Mettle as a semblance is not bad. It allows you to remain focused in one thing and one thing alone. This is what makes James a great soldier. he is able to focus on the task in front of him, taking it on one at a time. But this is also what makes him a bad leader. A leader is expected to make multiple decisions and is supposed to be flexible with his choices, not become narrow at only 1 solution. He may be great when it comes to leading battles or fighting in them. (Exp: Him vs Watts, look at how stalwart he was, the decisions he made were without any hesitation. he just did it.) Sacrificing limbs to accomplish the goal, the mission. But he's horrible at looking at things at the bigger picture. he could only see things as Atlas has to protect the world and only Atlas matters.
@@muchluck7981 but having tunnel vision as a soldier or general is really bad, you need to be able to change your plans on the fly and readjust. Not just focused on one thing.
@@fitzquagmire9031 Like I said, a soldier is fine because you often recieve your orders and complete them. You listen to people above you give the calls and you do whatever is needed to complete the task. Mettle makes someone a great soldier because they have someone else to make the difficult decisions, they don't have to decide what needs to be done. They just needs to do what they are told and they must get it done.
@@bangscutter Ironwood was always a soldier his entire life, it is clear by both his rank and how he holds himself. he often relied on Ozpin for advice and to be a friend because he himself is a terrible leader deep down and knows it
Yup, they definitely took advantage of his weaknesses Also 0:23 Evidence that Qrow had beef with Ironwood before volume 8 Ironwood does Deserve all that he gets
At the moment he finds the chess piece, he had: the ace-ops (full team), winter, team rwby, team jn_r, oscar/ozpin, the happy huntresses, the council on his side, the people's trust and Penny. If he hadn't let fear overcome him, he could had protected both Mantle and Atlas. But some "people" still like to argue that Atlas was doomed from the beginning when the show clearly tells us that is not the case.
I’m still not sure if they could have saved Mantle and Atlas from Salem’s first attack she only waited because she already ready had them divided if they were whole she would have hit them with everything and I’m not sure they would have survived
Well, in-universe Atlas could've been saved. Storywise I think Atlas was doomed the moment we started to see the build-up of James going mad from fear.
@@sunkenobi1501 That's not true. When Ironwood was told the truth of Salem's immortality he took it well. It was the knowledge of Salem's arrival at their very doorstep that took him over the edge. Salem's arrival and Watts+Tyrian's setup for it were beyond RWBY's control. And when Ironwood's fear took over him, the inevitable happened. He sacrificed Mantle. His neglect for Mantle was already built up early in the volume. Remember when Watts told Tyrian that Mantle's codes were not updated like Atlas was and that's what made it easy for him to hack. If Ironwood didn't neglect Mantle like he always did, then maybe he would've had a better chance of countering or even outright stopping Watts and Tyrian's schemes to wear out the kingdom's forces in preparation for Salem.
Ironwood's fall makes me think of a more extreme version of Raven Branwen's case. Think about it - they learned the truth about Salem, something threatened the safety of their own small part of Remnant (Atlas and the Branwen Tribe), and they become driven to only protect that small part, refusing to admit to their own fears. What makes Ironwood a more dangerous case is that he has influence over bigger things than what Raven has.
Except his goal wasn't to protect atlas, it was to get the relics and maiden away from Salem to save remnant. He's still trying to protect remnant here.
I don’t know about “crazy easy”. He has exploitable weaknesses, but it took years of careful work and adjustments to leave him in the state he is in, not to mention the sheer load of the changing world and its burdens. Strangely enough if RWBY and co had headed towards Vacuo instead of Atlas Ironwood may have pulled through. His Amity Arena plan appeared to be a successfully kept secret, and without the increased manipulations of Salem’s top agents he may have restored global communications and caught them flat footed. There remained the risk of internal dissent and repression tearing the kingdom apart sooner than later, but I’d like to think without having the likes of Watts and Callows in play everyone could have kept their cool long enough to get Amity up.
@@falcore91 you are right I think I over exaggerated the ease of the manipulation. I never thought about that whole Vacuo thing. but of course if they had gone to Vacuo they would have gotten cough up with the crown and all that. Spoilers for before the dawn Heck maybe one of could have gotten brainwashed by Jax.
@@allsuper9268 That would have been interesting to see Ruby and friends encounter The Crown while some of their members get brainwashed to be Jax's minions.
@@rexlumontad5644 I’m disappointed by before the Dawn largely but I do think that Jax has an interesting power and I hope to use more of him in my own fanfic
Trust is always plagued by fear. For both Team RWBY and Ironwood. It’s a risk they felt that they couldn’t take for different reasons. As Ozpin said, fear is not as big of a problem as what people become when they succumb to that fear. Because Team RWBY lost faith in Ozpin after the truth was revealed and their poor treatment of him, Ozpin left in despair. Leading to Ruby lying to Ironwood about Salem’s Immortality and Ozpin fate and Yang leaking intel behind his back playing off of the fear that Ironwood was trapped in.
Looking back I feel kinda dumb for not guessing the hacker was from Atlas or that said hacker Arthur Watts had history with Ironwood. Why make a virus to hack an army of robots unless you knew that your old friend was dumb enough to bring them to Vale
We never saw Sleet's body. Might've had his aura unlocked and just backed down when Ironwood shot him. Would explain why everyone in the room when he did that just kept following his orders the rest of the volume and only started feeling a little uneasy instead of turning on him right then and there.
Even after all this time people still say that Ironwood was changed at the drop of a hat or that it came out of nowhere or that it was mere bread crumbs but I share your video and proof that it is not as bad as that
Ozpin doesn't treat his allies as chess-pieces. But if James Ironwood was any piece, it was Ozpin's queen -- no one else had the kind of institutional power that General Ironwood did. So Salem did what any good chess-player does, and planned around how to neutralize and take Ozpin's queen piece, while Ozpin's death and retreat left him incapable of protecting Ironwood or unwilling to try.
I didn't realize how far back it went, but I knew this was not just a sudden "let's make him a villain" thing. Honestly, I have to wonder about the thought processes of people who think "Ironwood did nothing wrong" or "Team RWBY pushed him to this because they wouldn't fall in line."
Like???? He's BEEN hinted to be this way since volume 2. TWO!! Literally one of the first things we hear about him is that he has a tendency to go overboard with his military.
All the haters want this show to suck so much that they forget about the subtle and pshycological turmoil they have going on in each of the characters.
You know this also mean Ozpin was being use by Salem as well. If one think of it. He told the group of the constant betrayal. She most likely cause a lot of those so Ozpin will develop that part of him become crypt and keep secret to himself. Effective Salem exploit a weakness just like she did to Ironwood and most likely what she did to Leo. But I bet this is the first time anyone else after hearing all of Ozpin serect actively choose to stick with him and still keep up the fight.
I saw a reddit post comparing him to Walker from Spec Ops the Line and I gotta say, it's a great comparison because on how their character arc is basically soldiers descending into madness all the while thinking that they are doing the right thing regardless the damages they are causing.
The enemy we always underestimate so easily, someone who we have known for all our lives-and yet, we do not take account that they would betray our trust. That enemy is-and always will be-ourselves. Sure, we have our strengths... but we always have our weaknesses. General Ironwood is no different than ourselves. He is military, in charge of keeping Atlas safe; *Mantle included.* However, it is his paranoia and his semblance that creates the shackles of distrust and doubt. It was Salem and her followers merely used his weaknesses against him, the piece on the chessboard that they easily removed from the game, allowing chaos to engulf the kingdom as the enemy waits for it to destroy itself and carve a path straight towards the Vault, and Relic of Creation. Once Ironwood was pushed to his limits, the so called hero became the villain no one-not even Team RWBY-could have expected.
@@DJPrimeAmvs Ya I do think the nuke was overkill. I think it would have been better if crow stayed captive and he threatened to kill Crow. Les evil and it makes sense ironwood would kill crow. Nuking mantle is just a little to much. That being said I don't think it's out of character for him I think it just ruins a chance at redemption
@@evandugas7888 It's in character for him because as far as he's concerned, Mantle's already dead and RWBY and friends are fooling themselves thinking they can save it. Nuking it, in his mind, is forcing them to face the reality of the situation and get them to stop trying to save people who can't be saved. It sucks, and it'll make him look like the bad guy to people who don't realize Salem had Mantle dead to rights already anyway. They might even kill him over it. But they'll stop the pointless fighting and actually save the people who can still be saved on Atlas, so it's a sacrifice he's willing to make.
Honestly I really hope RWBY and the rest of the protags don't just kill Ironwood off, he doesn't need to die the man just needs help and to be relieved from duty with an honorable discharge. Something needs to play off Ozpins speech at the end of V7 about "fear and forgiveness"
Ironwood: If you were one of my men, I'd have you shot! Qrow: If I was one of your men, I'd shoot myself. Ironwood wasn't lying when he said that in Volume 3
Ironwood was the most obvious one to go crazy though. I mean, his introduction to the show is essentially bringing a tank, loaded with live rounds, at a children's birthday party and the only crime to stop is small-time robbery. You cannot get any more sus than that, even if it's for good reason.
Most aren't claiming that. What most are speaking of is how drastic some of his actions were. He literally went into cartoon villain mode which isn't excused by his subtle descent into madness. I know the team wanted people to feel that Ironwood had become the villain. But they were doing well until they made him cartoony evil.
It's better to have a fragile heart that's easy to reforge than a metal heart that when shattered cannot be repaired. Ironwood was so afraid of losing, he lost the ability to 'win'. What he considers victory now... saving Atlas at the expense of the world, would have been unthinkable before his heart broke. But now? It's that or 'lose', so he can't be dissuaded from his course. If you take any step to stop him, you're helping Salem whether you realise it or not. Poor Tin Man, if only you still had a heart...
@@matteomiriello1661 Atlas floats off into the sky and the rest of the world is torn to pieces by Salem in order to try and goad Ironwood into saving it. Eventually he still loses, because Salem is nothing if not resourceful: a bit of height won't keep her at bay for long, and all he will have done is buy Atlas a moment longer... well, at the expense of the world. Including Atlas in the long run.
@@matteomiriello1661 Yeah, but the beauty of his character is that it's not really that he's stupid... it's just that he can't trust anyone, and the show does a really good job of showing why. If Ironwood was right, and he literally couldn't trust anyone but himself and the Aesopps to protect the world from Salem, then he absolutely did the right thing: the world is too big for one man to protect so the best he can do is save Atlas for a little while. However, he COULD trust RWBY and JNRR and Robin, but to do so would've required him giving up some of his own power. If he'd done that and been betrayed, from his perspective he wou;d've lost everything.
His greatest weakness was not the fact that no one trusted him, the neglected people of Mantle who enacted riots just to be protected nor was it the schemes of team WTCH who played him like playdoh, those actions were all James’s doing. All his paranoia, doubt, fear and rage manifested into a single order: Protect Atlas, his semblance just amplified that request which ultimately turned his greatest strength: the ability to see a goal through no matter the cost turned into his most crippling weakness.
I believe this sums up the whole message of Salem as a character and RWBY as a series. Humanity ONLY works when they are together, and when that happens, they are a force even immortal beings can fear. Salem knows this perfectly, and never underestimates the power of unity. THAT is why she takes ironwood seriously. Ironwood is a mirror for all of humanity. Strong, respected, and with working communications, be it machines or actual friends. But tip the scales, sever trust, plant doubt, and all on their own, fear and paranoia can cut out all the help that they could ever get. You just need to check every once in a while to make sure that the spark of hope doesn't kindle. And before long, Humanity will isolate and sabotage itself. Just. Like. Ironwood
All of this falls apart when you realize that Cinder acted of her own accord by putting the chest piece in his office. that wasn't some elaborate plan from the start, it was just Cinder deciding to take matters into her own hands, not Salem/Watt's.
Oh I know, but it doesn't make a difference. The point is his paranoia was a tool the villains always knew they could use. Cinder included. The chess piece was to throw him off his game and it worked.
I notice some people are like “Oh they ruined Ironwood by making him evil blah blah blah” when in reality he’s just a scared man with tunnel vision that went off the deep end. I’m glad you made this video to showcase his reverse development. Ironwood is a great character. I don’t hate him, but that doesn’t excuse his actions.
-Full name: James Ironwood -General, fighter, and friend -Cause of death: Broken back from single handedly carrying the show for two volumes straight. Rest in Peace, James. You will be missed. *salute*
for all the shit people like to give crewby for bad writing, i think this slow descent into paranoia and extremism out of a desire to protect others (also aided by his semblance, of course) is a great character piece
Not only Penny was just used a tool for Salem's plans of the Fall of Beacon, she also use Ironwood right under his noses the while time since the beginning. Like you said, the Villains could just let Ironwood do all of the work for them which he kinda, almost did but failed.
I respectfully disagree. If the writers couldn't come up with a consistent story for the main characters, they couldn't have planned this. From what I can tell, the writers only plan things 1 volume at a time. Even if Ironwood's descent into madness was something they planned, the execution was terrible. RWBY lying to Ironwood at the beginning of V7 made no logical sense, and their continual behavior to undermine his work and go behind his back is not something RWBY would do especially when this guy put all his cards on the table for them to read. And then when V7 ended and people got outraged that RWBY aka the writers basically caused Ironwood's downfall for no good reason, they pull his dumb semblance out of nowhere for damage control. And they never even emphasize that semblance in the actual show, its just mentioned in a podcast and that's it.
They lied because both vol 5-6 taught them you need to be carful who you trust and the truth can destroy people. The main thing is it’s because Ironwood was apart of Ozpin inner-circle two that they met had been a traitor or just ran away. So they had to make sure it’s ok to trust him but they still willingly helped him with everything. Yes if they told sooner it probably wouldn’t end up as bad but they were scared on who to trust now and didn’t know when to take a risk properly.
@@justynhill4814 That isn’t good enough. For one thing, Ironwood had already built a good relationship with these characters before they went to Atlas. They fought alongside each other at Beacon, Ironwood commissioned the new arm for Yang, and he defended Weiss during that aristocratic party. And when they learned about Salem’s origins from the lamp and realized that Ozpin lied completely, that would have doubled down their assumptions about secrets being bad. It makes no sense that they wouldn’t trust Ironwood of all people. It’s not like Leo because we’ve never met Leo before.
@@bullmoosevelt4495- vol.5-6 they learn their can be traitors and the reason why they became traitors was because of the truth and they almost died from the Apathies because they were depressed from the truth. It’s not that they were ungrateful for what he’s done but they don’t know him on a personal level and Qrow doesn’t know who to trust anymore. So Ruby wanted to be sure and also she was scared on deep level she probably figured that he wasn’t a traitor but she was scared how he could lose it trying to think how to tell him with his state of mind but the more she hears how much he put in the plan and how it could go all wrong which makes it harder to tell. He has also shown that he was over the edge multiple times in vol.7 especially when he talked about Salem with Oscar “gravity” was when he was still good especially when everyone helped out but when cinder came with the calling card he felt compromised and lost it thinking that Mantle was a distraction but it was how the bad guys got through. Yes Ironwood should been told but at least try to understand the kids.
@@justynhill4814 The reason they were depressed and at the hands of the apathy wasn’t because of the truth but because of the fact that there was so much Ozpin lied about, the fact that he had NO PLAN for beating Salem, and on top of that, he left them all high and dry by locking himself inside Oscar’s head. There should have been no issues in terms of Ironwood being a traitor from the beginning but just to be extra sure, the high military presence in Atlas when they flew in should have been another clear indicator that he wasn’t going to submit to Salem. Your theory is that they kept the truth because they feared he would break down but V7C4 made it clear that the sole reason was trust, when Qrow and Ruby had that talk with each other about Ironwood having to “prove” himself. When they first met in Atlas Ironwood was clearly happy to see them, because finally he wasn’t alone in the struggle. Even if telling the truth about Ozpin made him see that man differently, he would have still completely trusted team RWBY, besides, what would telling him the truth change? Ironwood laid out his plan which is 1 more then either team RWBY or Ozpin had, but he hadn’t put it into action yet. There was still plenty of time to restrategize any flaws with the new details RWBY delivered about Salem. Also there is this constant idea in all their heads that they have to kill Salem to win. Did they not pay attention to what they saw in the lamp? She needs to learn the value of life to pass on. Even if they can’t figure that out, they could always find alternatives, like for example, how about we trap her in one of the vaults where the relics are kept? Telling the truth right at the end was the worst timing, there was no time to make any meaningful changes to the plan, and it revealed to Ironwood how hypocritical team RWBY was especially after they literally gave him a whole speech about telling the truth to others. And Oscar even said to Ironwood that it was because they didn’t know who to trust that they kept that information from him. I can’t blame the kids for this stupid behavior it’s all so illogical and inconsistent with their actions and beliefs that the only people responsible are the writers themselves. They squandered this entire arc that was supposed to be either the biggest climax or the biggest defeat at the hands of Salem, instead the writers ruined Ironwood’s character, and are going to pull off the huge BS to get RWBY and all the other characters and people out unscathed.
@@bullmoosevelt4495 Too late this has already been cemented as the absolute Truth. Salem has been playing Ironwood from the very beginning without any build up mention of it other than possible art or animation slip ups and theories being taken as fact just it prove RWBY was always on the right and Ironwood was wrong. Honestly at this point this fandom has just reached sad levels of disgusting with their behavior.
Funny how things from years ago come back in the show and tie everything together. Ironwoods ptsd is working against him and they were smart to use that against him gotta give them credit where it’s due tbh. Great catch Dak I didn’t see it as much until now 😊
I mean, they accidentally made a really compelling character breaking under the stress of an impossible situation and repeated betrayals, and decided to course correct him into a mustache twirling villain who tents his fingers under a dramatic spotlight and laughs as he contemplates nuking a city.
They will probably use Qrow next given the villains theme. The Cowardly Lion. Lionheart. The Stupid Scarecrow. Qrow The Heartless Tinman. Ironwood. We're missing a Dorothy, but given how Summer Rose has probably been turned into a monster . . .
@@romualdcaffeserre6230 Qrow has been the Scarecrow since day 1, Headmaster Theodore is Dorothy. If you read "Before the Dawn", it gets into that allusion a lot more.
@@Darth_Bateman- I think Qrow is all good for now when he was Fighting Clover that’s when he lost his mind because he lost it because of all the betrayal. So with the talk with Robyn it may have helped him for the moment.
This really has been a chess game between her and Ozpin this whole time. And he keeps losing, because he's spent this whole time on the defensive, trying to make sure all his pieces are where he wants them to be while *completely ignoring her.* And unlike Salem he doesn't even HAVE a long-term plan. "Villains act, heroes react."
@@rexlumontad5644 Like, perhaps, in some kind of empty void between dimensions. But it'd be impossible to make something like that! It's completely beyond mortal science!
@@bowenorcutt78 Oh I see, the empty void between dimensions where Ambrosius created a portal system for the evacuation of Atlas and Mantle's peoples and sternly warns Ruby not to fall. That means it could have been Salem's prison if she's dumped on the empty void between dimensions.
@@rexlumontad5644 Might end up going that way, who knows! It'd be a VERY convenient way to write her out of the show if they for whatever reason decided to take it in another direction.
@@bowenorcutt78 True. Salem got Night's King-ed there. Context: Night's King was hyped up to be the Greater Scope Villain only to die anticlimactically by Arya Ninjasue Stark in the Battle of Winterfell, leaving Cersei as the last threat in Game of Thrones Season 8 disaster.
I'm always impressed at how well CRWBY executed Salem's plan over the course of the show. Everything is so well thought out and foreshadowed, but only just enough so that you get a sense of direction without being able to figure everything out. Its so well done
I would have believed this... If someone from the team didn't blurt out he's acting like this because of his semblance🤦♀️ Had it been just been his mental state deteriorating because of what is going on, then his change would make sense. Right now, I can't tell if he's like this because of that or his semblance.
The best damn Hero of the series ,brought down tragically by forces he could not control and cringe MCs who never learned sigh i miss ya james you were my fountain of memes
Without a doubt, this is so true. James was fundamentally a very predictable person, and even throughout his downward spiral starting from Volume 4, he never actually changed as a person. Changing circumstances simply brought out the worst in him and in Atlas's systems.
See, this is why I never understand when people say "Ironwood did nothing wrong." He literally did everything wrong. He could have changed, he could have listened, and he could have made things better. Instead, he kept trusting his own paranoid judgment and did everything Salem wanted him to do.
@@TiltedPotatohead- it’s not even semblance anymore he was still doing this before that. He had his reasons but it doesn’t change the fact that not only did he took resources from Mantle and lied about just like how people complained about Ruby lying. No it’s not justified even with that Semblance and it’s literally because of his fears it’s what pushed and made all his terrible decisions for him. Ironwood main problem is that he can’t relinquish control or has to be the one in control no matter what is said and he has people that doesn’t question him until they finally seen the downward spiral.
@@TiltedPotatohead - 1. Yes all those actions are built by fear and paranoia with the superiority complex of wanting to take control over everything. That’s what the villains exploited and knew basically what actions he would take just given the push to the right direction they wanted. 2. Robin kept hold over the resources she stolen because even if she wanted to use them Ironwood would have tried to taken them back. The point is she wanted to hold on to them to cut a deal and even to try a negotiation because all she wanted know why he was making her city and her people feel like second class citizens. 3. Not talking the kids I’m talking about Mantel and it’s people’s constantly telling what they’re using the resources for but has been secretly building amity with it. With constant Grimm attack and basically the atlas army playing exterminator instead of fixer Robin was semi in the right to question what the resources for mantle. No Rwby main problem they gained trust issues and no matter what fancy words IW says it’s hard but they still offered him help. After he gave the lamp back Ruby crossed out he’s a traitor idea but how he reacts still frightened her because her and the kids have seen what the truth done to people who knew Ozpin. Yang and Blake wanted Robyn to see and understand that Ironwood isn’t the enemy or was the one trying to kill her and if you want to make her arm as a excuse it’s even more reason why she wants Robyn to understand Ironwood wants to help. The main issue that Salem and Cinder knew how to press and put the pressure on Ironwood and fear had caused everyone to make their own best decision they thought would help but the clash of idea’s caused the rift. Which each failure Ironwood fears grew out of control to this point and had caused his end. Enough said.
@@TiltedPotatohead- every action of his was because of fear, fear that people don’t see the big picture so he has to force his ideas on other and take out those who disagree. Fear was the poison and end Ironwood and kept him separated from others. Those who were loyal never question anything which made worse as they go and made him go deeper in his paranoia. The main aspect of what Salem wanted was for him drown in his own fears and destroy both cities from inside sacrificing anything or anyone to just be ahead of her Nobody betrayed him they helped him because they knew he was trying help everyone and Robyn needed to know that which is why Yang and Blake convinced her to help and see that he was on everyone side. Fear was the theme in Vol 7 and it will remain the theme. Yeah Yang criticized but she was everyone was blaming themselves for problems out of their control which is why Vol.8 helped air out their problems and figured somethings out.
@@TiltedPotatohead- also what is so hard to blame the freaking dark witch who knows how to use fear as a weapon and has centuries years of mind manipulation?
the best part about Cinder's chess piece in atlas, is that it wasn't even in accordance to Salem's plan. *she literally did that just to fuck with Ironwood*
The perfectly placed wrench in the works.
And only Cinder could've done it. She was the one most knowledgeable of Ironwood since he was already part of her schemes early in V1-3
i dont think you understand how much i love this comment
Not like Ironwood was already paranoid enough, they just had to push him even further
She's likely never have found her way to Fria if not for that bluff.
The world's most elaborate gaslighting campaign.
"I will do... WHATEVER IT TAKES"
Cinder: "I doubt it"
I: "I WON'T HESITATE BITCH"
Watts: "Aight Bet lmao"
@@Iridescent_Astraea Salem: "All part of my Nefarious Plans."
Yeah like lionheart was already a traitor and he was a member of ozpins inner circle so he would have knowledge of something like ironwood's semblance it's strengths and it's weakness then relaying that information to Salem she had atlas and ironwood's downfall planned even before volume 5 damn she is good at dismantling the people most loyal to ozpin
Bruh, have you ever heard of operation fortitude?
Yha they just need I'm to have pdf
The Tin Man really lost his heart, and his mind
Salem and her faction had succeeded in making Ironwood his own worst enemy.
@@rexlumontad5644 or is ally, right?
It is scary to know that the enemy has been using Ironwood to continue their plans, which makes you realize that Watts working for Ironwood gave Salem the advantage she needed
It’s crazy how this man is like trusted as general but then yet he not realized that is greatest weakness is his fear, himself. This goes deep
Salem: "All according to my nefarious plans."
Also when you consider that throughout volume 7 and 8 ironwood preaches about trust throughout those volumes, but if you go back to 2 and 3 it shows that ironwood never truly believe in trust nor earn trust for that matter. He always went behind ozpins back and alter things for his favor. Even with Glynda, he try to manipulate her into trusting him over Ozpin. He was the perfect soldier to manipulate because he never really trusted anyone as much as he claims he would.
Lol Mettle go BRRRRR
@@importedglue891 And with the way how Ozpin was being crypt about his intentions, it doesn't really help anyone, even if we could understand why he did it.
@@justanotherguy1782 Basically Salem play both Ozpin and Ironwood. I bet that why she choose now to strike. Ozpin just made things way easier for her. Most likely she even condition Ozpin to be crypt with all those suppose allies constant bretaryal.
Imagine you are someone from one of the other kingdoms with no idea of the madness happening in Atlas in Volume 8. All you get are two random broadcasts from two teenager huntsmen who hacked into the CCTV, and then the feed suddenly cutting out. Incomplete message can be worse than no message at all, since it makes it even more confusing.
Ruby: "Atlas is under attack by Salem. There's something about relics and maidens; ask the headmasters, they will explain. Oh, and Ironwood cannot be trusted." *cuts out*
Jaune: "Atlas is falling. But..." *cuts out*
If we’re being technical only the people in Atlas and Mantle heard Jaune’s broadcast, they were using the kingdom wide broadcasting not worldwide. That doesn’t take away from what you’re say though, just thought I should point it out.
The first feed I would be confused as hell
Didn't Ruby and Yang's father also saw the message so it should be worldwide
Yeah not the smartest idea in Ruby's book.
@@animefan2454 who said that it plan was going to be smart, it a was more of a last resort type of plan something like that.
9:36 Ambrosius: "Really? Make the floating city rise even higher? This is completely insulting to my creative wiles!"
I was thinking about that after sometime after the episode. Its not really "creating" something, but just moving it higher. Matter of fact, would Ambrosius still follow through because there is no plan.
He could create auxiliary boosters for lifting it and then fortify the city beyond any threat in continuation. Where's the imagination?
“All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.” ― Sun-Tzu
Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it!
And then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honour!
@@thatawesomeguy6288 Then he used his fight money to buy 2 of every animal on earth. And then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the Crap out of every single one!
@@LockyMVoices And from that day forward, any time a bunch of animals are together in one place, it’s called a zoo!
@@thelegendaryascendingdrago4428”When you find the head of the operation, you chop him off!” Attila said that! And I’d say he knows a little more about decapitation than you do, pal because he invented it!
Well Salem had better control of him than she did with Leo.
Now it all makes sense.
This has got to be one of the most cleverly written plots that expanded throughout the volumes. It's Zuko's redemption arc in reverse! Rather than becoming a better man, General Ironwood played right into Salem and her lackeys plan since Beacon.
It's saddening, honestly. But at the same time, it's also realistic. People in power who had good intentions originally can become corrupt or if pushed the wrong way, go down a path that is the total opposite to their original intentions. But it's still saddening to how it had to be an honest and well respected man like Ironwood.
I never realized this until now my mind is blow 🤯🤯
It’s too bad all of this is lost when you watch the volumes. This idea could have worked so much better of it was written better in the episodes these scenes were in
For this all to work they would have needed to know team RWBY would betray Ironwood leading to mistrust, that ironwood would abandon mantle without using private transport like Wiess tries this volume, The winter maiden to be out of his reach which was a rogue plan by cinder. When you hyper-focus on certain parts of a story you can make anything make sense but as a whole, there were way too many options and idiotic moves by everyone for this to seem brilliantly planned. Salem lucked out that everything worked. If cinder didn't attack ironwood would be out of reach and she would have wasted all that time.
@@GSol1 I mean it’s all there. Don’t know what you lost along the way.
@@av799 We have these scenes and when isolated they are good. But if you watch the full episodes, (and volumes), all you will get is a character that had no sense of development and idiotic ideas.
2:30 Even Jacques tells Ironwood to chill out.
When a villain tells you to chill out, that's when you know, you've got massive issues.
He may be full of shit, but some of the words coming out of his mouth are correct.
Yep
And Marrow saw through all of it, he is a good boy.
Marrow is goodest boi in atlas
Why does everyone keep calling him a good boy he’s human in all of the shots I’ve seen
@@CafeLiquerstreams last time I checked he's human.
@@AllenShircliff He's a dog Faunus...
@@KuroJet isnt he as guilty of War Crimes as the rest of the Ace Ops, Attacking innocent freedom fighters and other stuff. I'm confused on where I stand on the Ace Ops.
Ironwood was doomed the moment he brought his army to Beacon. And we never realized until now.
_Holy shit..._
It wasn't just Ironwood who was played. We _ALL_ were. We thought all of this mess with James started around Volume 4 or so, maybe even at Volume 7, but no. It was all planned. And we never knew.
Damn.
I mean Leo was already a traitor by then and it would explain why Cinder had that virus in the first place. It be so odd to have such a virus that controls mecha and everything if Ironwood wouldn't bring his army over. The virus was design for Ironwood fleet he would most likely bring the whole time.
Yeah, it took me a while to realize, but Ironwood's villain arc, his downward spiral, and his ultimate defeat were all set in place the moment we first were introduced to him.
No, it was pretty clear from the start that he was the ringleader's main weakness.
Playing with a man's mental health, truly villainous
All part of Salem's Nefarious Plans
Like the freaking Joker... Or Azula
THANK YOU! This is the fundamental tragedy of Ironwood. He may be behaving like a villain now, but he is as much a victim as anyone else in Remnant. All of his strength and resolve have been twisted and turned against him through manipulation on a massive scale, a sophisticated ploy which quickly adapted when needed ( plus had some lucky breaks like when Cinder placed the pawn ).
A separate point: his failings are grave, but so are those of the people around him up to his final break from decency. The council in fear of a repeat of Beacon let him take more and more power. Subordinates like Winter chose to tie loyalty to blind obedience, rather than truly challenging him sooner. The citizenry of Atlas acquiesced to his repression of Mantle since they were kept in relative comfort. Again and again he was allowed to shoulder all the burdens of the world, when those around him should have demanded he shared the burden whether he wanted to or not.
Yea people calling him to easy to manipulate and weak need to realize after Oz reincarnated he basically become the head honcho, while having to carry the most powerful country in the world. That a lot for one man and unlike Oz he doesn’t have life times to make him ready
@@richardpattarozzi8975 Would it change if Ruby and her company told Ironwood the truth early when they first meet in V7 Episode 2 or will it make things worse?
I mean they treated Ozpin like shit for hiding the truth from them yet they did the exact same thing on Ironwood.
@@rexlumontad5644 probably would have went differently to be honest, but we also have to remember Salem would adapt to the change so who knows if it would change anything. But lying didn’t help
@@richardpattarozzi8975 Fair enough. It is a case of "In Spite of a Nail" in a nutshell.
@@rexlumontad5644 I don’t know that the lie means RWBY and co treated him like crap. Choosing to lie at first was one of the experiences RWBY and co needed to come to terms with what Ozpin had done, “a mile in my shoes” and such. When they arrived mantle looked like a dystopian police state. Even if it felt uncomfortable it was a prudent move to hold tight to some of their cards, particularly any which might push Ironwood over the edge.
They still dedicated themselves to helping him though I.
I don’t think ironwood is a villain, I think he’s a tragic fallen hero.
I believe that after Salem showed herself in his office he just let his semblance completely take over with one singular goal: Save Atlas, Whatever It Takes.
A fallen hero is a type of villain
Tragic hero is a tragic hero, no Villain tropes needed
Ok
Actually his goal is to save remnant, not atlas. He was flying atlas away to protect the relics and maiden.
A Fallen Hero is more of an antagonist than a villain. Poor Ironwood snapped all because of the paranoia, Salem, Yang and Blake going behind his back to tell Robyn about the Amity CCT. He was an antagonist to RWBY in the end, the villain still ends up being: Salem and Cinder. Whilst I haven’t watched Rwby all the way through V9, I can still see where Ironwood still tried todo good even if it made him look bad.
A saying from Tywin lannister from GOT: "A lion doesn’t concern himself with the opinions of the sheep."
That’s how I see it from my perspective.
It just kills me that the last time we see Ironwood truly happy is "Gravity", when he was working with others and succeeding. He had everything, but then Cinder stomped all over his trauma and sent him into a spiral that doomed the whole kingdom.
Cinder may think she's the black Queen, but the symbol's only ever used with Ironwood. It's Salem's little inside joke: the best ally is a predictable enemy.
It’s all 4D chess and Ironwood was played... He was never player only a piece in a large game.
Like in the opening of volume 8. He's in a war.
I get the Azula reference
Ironwood is the white knight on the chessboard
@@adamtaurusragnathebloodedg8407 Yes, my chibi friends.
Thank you for making this. This will definitely explain a lot to people, especially those who complain saying that Ironwood’s descent into insanity makes no sense even though the series, since Vol 3, has been hinting at this happening.
Unless Ironwood gets killed off in this volume he might be redeemed. Although I’m not sure what his role would be at that point.
Although it’s highly likely that he will die. Regardless if he gets redeemed in the end or not, I think he’s fate is sealed.
@Jah Hun yeah even if he is redeemed he will be locked up no one other than our heroes will forgive him
watts played a large part in this, he had insider knowledge of how ironwood thought and would react. If he'd faced a enemy of similar intelligence then his weakness with his paranoia and semblance would have been discovered.
Well, yeah. A lot of people say Ironwood's little turn is just random and out of nowhere, but honestly he's been an unwitting piece on Salem's board almost since day one. Even during the Fall, he unknowingly played what was likely the single biggest part in Beacon's demise.
It certainly doesn't help that now it looks like he isn't taking care of himself physically OR mentally, leading to all these horrible decisions and last-minute plans with all the tactical grace of a rusty sledgehammer. To the enemy he's an open book at best, and a mild nuisance at worst.
What's worse is that he made the Fall of Beacon hit harder with his robots. The Vytal Festival was supposed to be a peace treaty, and yet he paraded his ominous looking military forces to the festival despite Ozpin's protest against bringing them out. And so they played the biggest part in the fall of beacon
Yeah he is too reliant on his advanced machinery and not trusting people enough
@@RioPheonix35555 Yeah people said he help in the breach no he didn't he just made Beacon fall harder with those robot of his since i bet a lot of Huntsman got caught off guard by the robot turning the guns on them.
If you really think about it, how much further could have Ironwood gone off the deep end?
Salem changed plans when Oz reincarnated back, she was gonna go for Vacuo before Atlas. Imagine how bad Ironwood's mental health would've declined if he was the last kingdom standing and could call upon no reinforcements. Salem knew what she was doing and it worked.
It really shows the the CRWBY had a much more clearer idea on where to take this show than a lot of the show’s detractors make it sound like they did
bingo!
Ikr people don't give this show enough credit sometimes.
yeah maybe sometimes some things arent great but that doesnt mean it could be good
Unlike their detractors, the CRWBY is moving forward.
Respectfully, I disagree. Sure their endgame may have been to show that but their execution was done poorly imo. Especially when it makes our "heroes" come off as liars and hypocrites.
Wow..... Even now, there's still ppl trying to say Ironwood is a victim only. As a former soldier myself, I understood him & his actions early on. But, I also saw the thin line he was walking then, too.
It was too obvious... He was too depended on intel and had no faith in other folks. And Salem saw him as open opportunity!!! She played him into almost every move he made, thinking they were his alone. Everything else, his mind predictably took in and fed his distrust & fear.
Truth is, he was too top heavy..... Running the military, Atlas Academy, & Altas/Mantle?!? Salem & co. just kept tipping him til the weight crushed him!! And the sad part is that James will have to live with this. Could any of us live with that, really?? He was a victim.... who became a victimizer! Sad and understandable, but still someone who has to pay for what he's done. Not death..... But, he must pay. 😥🙏
Running both the academy and military (both seats in the Council) is detrimental to Ironwood's mental health.
He has his semblance called Mettle, which literally which basically make go through any hard and unethical decision no matter how hard it may be. Also the fact that it is a passive semblance and he has no control over it can make him easily tunnel vision to the point of stupidity.
@@tobyrogers754 actually, you CAN control passive semblances to a degree. it's confirme qrow can spike his, for example. and i don't think it FORCED him to go through, i think it was an on-off passive, like a buff spell in a game
excuse me? may i ask what you mean by 'too dependent on intel?"
@@danielwilson8604, I think they meant that Ironwood depended too much on info from his his own forces and some of Ozpin’s group, that he didn’t see the bigger picture of how some info can mean something that can’t be solved by simply facing it head on.
They been playing him like a violin and cutting his cutting his strings
Ironwood is one of the most well-written, tragic characters in the series, god I love him
It was weird that no one ever talked about ironwoods semblance or is that just me
@@jetblazethunder3596 I completely agree, that’s the only thing that SERIOUSLY bothered me about his character; he had a major weakness and it was hardly acknowledged in the show
@@peachiibee Maybe he purposely kept his semblance in the dark, or that even he doesn’t know it because most Semblances are flashy, like Ruby’s mass-speed (that’s what I’m calling it), Pyra’s Magnetics, or Weiss’ Glyphs.
@@smellyuncle that’s actually a pretty good point and def would make sense! but it still would’ve been nice (and better writing in a technical sense) to have some sort of clearer signal to the viewers that there was something out of his control forcing him to become a bad guy bc a lot of people don’t fully realize how much his semblance screwed him over. not sure how they would’ve shown it if what u say is true, but regardless it’s kinda weird that he’s got this major thing about him that people don’t really know about unless they look things up outside of the show itself. hopefully it might come up in a later volume.
@@peachiibee Probably. And thank you.
y'know, ironwood could have been great. i was rooting for him too, despite the constant foreshadowing of his descent into madness, but he's beyond redemption at this point.
for all it's worth, he is a man whose only goal is to serve the people. his policies and orders are questionable, yes, but one must commend him for doing what he thought was right. no matter how misguided and antagonistic the execution of it turned out to be, the motive behind it is pure.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
He can still be redem
Just because he acted like villain doesnt mean that he's doomed
gotta respect the commitment
"he is a man whose only goal is to serve the -people- Kingdom"
Also, his semblance is Mettle, allowing him to just focus on doing one thing or one decision without hesitations. So I'm guessing now that his aura is broken, he might snap out of it.
I always said Ironwood’s biggest flaw is his refusal to recognize that he isn’t always the smartest person in the room.
he never was even a player, just one of the pieces that would be thrown away, the moment it played its part.
10:28 Even Clover is shocked and did not see that coming too as well.
This does an amazing job of removing any doubt that this was a long term operation to mold Ironwood into exactly what the villains wanted him to be. I've read so many opinion pieces saying that CRWBY was ruining a character by suddenly making him the bad guy, but as this piece shows it was so much more than that. The layers upon layers of deception, paranoia, fear, and distrust are slowly brought to the surface, and the man who remains is the result. I don't see him surviving past this volume but if by some chance he did then it will be interesting to see if he doubles down on his defense for his actions or if he will finally be remorseful and genuinely sorry for everything he did wrong.
Ironwood will double down with gusto. Even before the fall of Beacon Ironwood’s personality is very much “only MY plan(s) will work” it’s partially due to him being the General in charge of Atlas’ entire military & the academy.
He’s used to everyone going with whatever he says because of his authority either out of respect for him/his titles or out of fear of what will happen to them. Remember after Qrow & Winter’s duel in Volume 3 Ironwood told Qrow “if you were one of my men I’d have you shot” it’s played as a joke but remember some militaries up until real recent used to execute soldiers for disobeying orders. So how serious was that “threat/joke”.
Even though I find myself more in the anti-RWBY camp then the pro, I will give CRWBY credit where it's due. They did a great job with developing ironwood the way they did. They managed to a strong, confident, and somewhat sympathetic character into a terrified despot unwittingly playing to the villians tune long after his kingdom is secured.
@@erockbaby3000And then he actually did shoot Councilor Sleet and almost shot Marrow. Man wasn't lying when he first brought that up.
Ironwood's mettle semblance is probably the worst you can get. Not only does it not give you any "cool" external visible abilities, it is actually detrimental in giving you a tunnel vision in only seeing and going in one path. He's basically an avalanche waiting to happen. Just need a small nudge and you can manipulate him into a predictable course of action.
not really. Mettle as a semblance is not bad. It allows you to remain focused in one thing and one thing alone. This is what makes James a great soldier. he is able to focus on the task in front of him, taking it on one at a time. But this is also what makes him a bad leader. A leader is expected to make multiple decisions and is supposed to be flexible with his choices, not become narrow at only 1 solution.
He may be great when it comes to leading battles or fighting in them. (Exp: Him vs Watts, look at how stalwart he was, the decisions he made were without any hesitation. he just did it.) Sacrificing limbs to accomplish the goal, the mission. But he's horrible at looking at things at the bigger picture. he could only see things as Atlas has to protect the world and only Atlas matters.
@@muchluck7981 but having tunnel vision as a soldier or general is really bad, you need to be able to change your plans on the fly and readjust. Not just focused on one thing.
@@fitzquagmire9031 Like I said, a soldier is fine because you often recieve your orders and complete them. You listen to people above you give the calls and you do whatever is needed to complete the task.
Mettle makes someone a great soldier because they have someone else to make the difficult decisions, they don't have to decide what needs to be done. They just needs to do what they are told and they must get it done.
@@muchluck7981 Yes, true that. Mettle is great for a soldier. Bad when in position of high leadership.
@@bangscutter Ironwood was always a soldier his entire life, it is clear by both his rank and how he holds himself. he often relied on Ozpin for advice and to be a friend because he himself is a terrible leader deep down and knows it
Yup, they definitely took advantage of his weaknesses
Also 0:23
Evidence that Qrow had beef with Ironwood before volume 8
Ironwood does Deserve all that he gets
God it took me til right now that the screen with the Black Queen had 12:00 AM written on it. It was literally midnight
Cindy works best at midnight
At the moment he finds the chess piece, he had: the ace-ops (full team), winter, team rwby, team jn_r, oscar/ozpin, the happy huntresses, the council on his side, the people's trust and Penny. If he hadn't let fear overcome him, he could had protected both Mantle and Atlas. But some "people" still like to argue that Atlas was doomed from the beginning when the show clearly tells us that is not the case.
I’m still not sure if they could have saved Mantle and Atlas from Salem’s first attack she only waited because she already ready had them divided if they were whole she would have hit them with everything and I’m not sure they would have survived
Well, in-universe Atlas could've been saved. Storywise I think Atlas was doomed the moment we started to see the build-up of James going mad from fear.
@@bearfaery737 yea
The thing is the outcome could've been different if team RWBY and co told him the full truth from a certain point of view.
@@sunkenobi1501 That's not true. When Ironwood was told the truth of Salem's immortality he took it well. It was the knowledge of Salem's arrival at their very doorstep that took him over the edge. Salem's arrival and Watts+Tyrian's setup for it were beyond RWBY's control.
And when Ironwood's fear took over him, the inevitable happened. He sacrificed Mantle. His neglect for Mantle was already built up early in the volume. Remember when Watts told Tyrian that Mantle's codes were not updated like Atlas was and that's what made it easy for him to hack. If Ironwood didn't neglect Mantle like he always did, then maybe he would've had a better chance of countering or even outright stopping Watts and Tyrian's schemes to wear out the kingdom's forces in preparation for Salem.
Ironwood's fall makes me think of a more extreme version of Raven Branwen's case. Think about it - they learned the truth about Salem, something threatened the safety of their own small part of Remnant (Atlas and the Branwen Tribe), and they become driven to only protect that small part, refusing to admit to their own fears. What makes Ironwood a more dangerous case is that he has influence over bigger things than what Raven has.
Except his goal wasn't to protect atlas, it was to get the relics and maiden away from Salem to save remnant. He's still trying to protect remnant here.
@@guts2016 So...what's to stop Salem from just attacking the rest of Remnant, then?
Ironwood is crazy easy to manipulate he has let his fear control him.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see your self become the villain.
I don’t know about “crazy easy”. He has exploitable weaknesses, but it took years of careful work and adjustments to leave him in the state he is in, not to mention the sheer load of the changing world and its burdens.
Strangely enough if RWBY and co had headed towards Vacuo instead of Atlas Ironwood may have pulled through. His Amity Arena plan appeared to be a successfully kept secret, and without the increased manipulations of Salem’s top agents he may have restored global communications and caught them flat footed. There remained the risk of internal dissent and repression tearing the kingdom apart sooner than later, but I’d like to think without having the likes of Watts and Callows in play everyone could have kept their cool long enough to get Amity up.
@@falcore91 you are right I think I over exaggerated the ease of the manipulation.
I never thought about that whole Vacuo thing. but of course if they had gone to Vacuo they would have gotten cough up with the crown and all that.
Spoilers for before the dawn
Heck maybe one of could have gotten brainwashed by Jax.
@@allsuper9268 That would have been interesting to see Ruby and friends encounter The Crown while some of their members get brainwashed to be Jax's minions.
@@rexlumontad5644 I’m disappointed by before the Dawn largely but I do think that Jax has an interesting power and I hope to use more of him in my own fanfic
@@allsuper9268 Ooh interesting. What is the title of your story?
Trust is always plagued by fear. For both Team RWBY and Ironwood. It’s a risk they felt that they couldn’t take for different reasons.
As Ozpin said, fear is not as big of a problem as what people become when they succumb to that fear.
Because Team RWBY lost faith in Ozpin after the truth was revealed and their poor treatment of him, Ozpin left in despair. Leading to Ruby lying to Ironwood about Salem’s Immortality and Ozpin fate and Yang leaking intel behind his back playing off of the fear that Ironwood was trapped in.
1:25 "The time has come... Execute Order 66."
10:36 "Your Internet privileges are officially revoked, young lady."
Ruby: YOU ARE NO LONGER THE COOL SECOND UNCLE!
Looking back I feel kinda dumb for not guessing the hacker was from Atlas or that said hacker Arthur Watts had history with Ironwood. Why make a virus to hack an army of robots unless you knew that your old friend was dumb enough to bring them to Vale
The man thinks himself a king, when in truth, he is merely a pawn.
“Know your enemy, know yourself, and you’ll win every time.”
At least no one died in a battle against Ironwood. Except Sleet. Looks like Salem knew about his semblance since Day 1.
We never saw Sleet's body. Might've had his aura unlocked and just backed down when Ironwood shot him. Would explain why everyone in the room when he did that just kept following his orders the rest of the volume and only started feeling a little uneasy instead of turning on him right then and there.
Even after all this time people still say that Ironwood was changed at the drop of a hat or that it came out of nowhere or that it was mere bread crumbs but I share your video and proof that it is not as bad as that
Ozpin doesn't treat his allies as chess-pieces. But if James Ironwood was any piece, it was Ozpin's queen -- no one else had the kind of institutional power that General Ironwood did. So Salem did what any good chess-player does, and planned around how to neutralize and take Ozpin's queen piece, while Ozpin's death and retreat left him incapable of protecting Ironwood or unwilling to try.
“they just decided to randomly ruin ironwood” like no babe this has been a buildup try and keep up
We play hardball around here, try to keep up fellas.
I didn't realize how far back it went, but I knew this was not just a sudden "let's make him a villain" thing. Honestly, I have to wonder about the thought processes of people who think "Ironwood did nothing wrong" or "Team RWBY pushed him to this because they wouldn't fall in line."
Like???? He's BEEN hinted to be this way since volume 2. TWO!! Literally one of the first things we hear about him is that he has a tendency to go overboard with his military.
@@svogel6459 right like we met the man and one of the first things we see is that he uses excessive military force
All the haters want this show to suck so much that they forget about the subtle and pshycological turmoil they have going on in each of the characters.
You know this also mean Ozpin was being use by Salem as well. If one think of it. He told the group of the constant betrayal. She most likely cause a lot of those so Ozpin will develop that part of him become crypt and keep secret to himself. Effective Salem exploit a weakness just like she did to Ironwood and most likely what she did to Leo. But I bet this is the first time anyone else after hearing all of Ozpin serect actively choose to stick with him and still keep up the fight.
I saw a reddit post comparing him to Walker from Spec Ops the Line and I gotta say, it's a great comparison because on how their character arc is basically soldiers descending into madness all the while thinking that they are doing the right thing regardless the damages they are causing.
The enemy we always underestimate so easily, someone who we have known for all our lives-and yet, we do not take account that they would betray our trust. That enemy is-and always will be-ourselves. Sure, we have our strengths... but we always have our weaknesses. General Ironwood is no different than ourselves.
He is military, in charge of keeping Atlas safe; *Mantle included.* However, it is his paranoia and his semblance that creates the shackles of distrust and doubt. It was Salem and her followers merely used his weaknesses against him, the piece on the chessboard that they easily removed from the game, allowing chaos to engulf the kingdom as the enemy waits for it to destroy itself and carve a path straight towards the Vault, and Relic of Creation.
Once Ironwood was pushed to his limits, the so called hero became the villain no one-not even Team RWBY-could have expected.
I think this is a good video to show people who think "Iron wood randomly choose to be evil" no all the signs where there.
I mean they had a good thing going for them but then they decided to hit the gas pedal and have him nuke Mantle
@@DJPrimeAmvs Ya I do think the nuke was overkill. I think it would have been better if crow stayed captive and he threatened to kill Crow. Les evil and it makes sense ironwood would kill crow. Nuking mantle is just a little to much. That being said I don't think it's out of character for him I think it just ruins a chance at redemption
@@evandugas7888 he's all about power and dominance.
@@evandugas7888 It's in character for him because as far as he's concerned, Mantle's already dead and RWBY and friends are fooling themselves thinking they can save it. Nuking it, in his mind, is forcing them to face the reality of the situation and get them to stop trying to save people who can't be saved.
It sucks, and it'll make him look like the bad guy to people who don't realize Salem had Mantle dead to rights already anyway. They might even kill him over it. But they'll stop the pointless fighting and actually save the people who can still be saved on Atlas, so it's a sacrifice he's willing to make.
Honestly I really hope RWBY and the rest of the protags don't just kill Ironwood off, he doesn't need to die the man just needs help and to be relieved from duty with an honorable discharge. Something needs to play off Ozpins speech at the end of V7 about "fear and forgiveness"
Don't worry. They teamed up with Emerald to handle the forgiveness angle and left James to die, crushed under a fallen Atlas.
Ironwood: If you were one of my men, I'd have you shot!
Qrow: If I was one of your men, I'd shoot myself.
Ironwood wasn't lying when he said that in Volume 3
Ironwood was the most obvious one to go crazy though. I mean, his introduction to the show is essentially bringing a tank, loaded with live rounds, at a children's birthday party and the only crime to stop is small-time robbery.
You cannot get any more sus than that, even if it's for good reason.
Can't wait for the scarecrow to loose his mind.
@@blackpowderkun He already lost his mind and original voice
Seriously, I don’t know how people think Ironwood’s actions came from nowhere.
Most aren't claiming that. What most are speaking of is how drastic some of his actions were. He literally went into cartoon villain mode which isn't excused by his subtle descent into madness. I know the team wanted people to feel that Ironwood had become the villain. But they were doing well until they made him cartoony evil.
@@holy8782- but it’s now what happened he didn’t became the a cartoony villain he just became mad because he was pushed down this road by Salem.
It was foreshadowed in Volume 3. I really don't understand why people are surprised Ironwood is a crazy dictator
@Ammy I guess some people were too trusting of Ironwood to see the signs I don’t realize it until his betrayal
its how they potray it
Yeah, in hindsigh the fact the he would fall was obvious (the signs were there early on). Still it is kinda sad seeing him stooping so low.
It's better to have a fragile heart that's easy to reforge than a metal heart that when shattered cannot be repaired.
Ironwood was so afraid of losing, he lost the ability to 'win'. What he considers victory now... saving Atlas at the expense of the world, would have been unthinkable before his heart broke.
But now? It's that or 'lose', so he can't be dissuaded from his course. If you take any step to stop him, you're helping Salem whether you realise it or not.
Poor Tin Man, if only you still had a heart...
Expense of the word?
@@matteomiriello1661 Atlas floats off into the sky and the rest of the world is torn to pieces by Salem in order to try and goad Ironwood into saving it. Eventually he still loses, because Salem is nothing if not resourceful: a bit of height won't keep her at bay for long, and all he will have done is buy Atlas a moment longer... well, at the expense of the world. Including Atlas in the long run.
@@MH3Raiser ok thanks, sorry.
@@MH3Raiser Ironwood is a stupid, he help Salem in his plan, and now the Team Rwby, Jaune and Penny are gone, right?
@@matteomiriello1661 Yeah, but the beauty of his character is that it's not really that he's stupid... it's just that he can't trust anyone, and the show does a really good job of showing why.
If Ironwood was right, and he literally couldn't trust anyone but himself and the Aesopps to protect the world from Salem, then he absolutely did the right thing: the world is too big for one man to protect so the best he can do is save Atlas for a little while.
However, he COULD trust RWBY and JNRR and Robin, but to do so would've required him giving up some of his own power. If he'd done that and been betrayed, from his perspective he wou;d've lost everything.
It was discussed in TV Tropes if Ironwood was an unwitting pawn.
His greatest weakness was not the fact that no one trusted him, the neglected people of Mantle who enacted riots just to be protected nor was it the schemes of team WTCH who played him like playdoh, those actions were all James’s doing. All his paranoia, doubt, fear and rage manifested into a single order: Protect Atlas, his semblance just amplified that request which ultimately turned his greatest strength: the ability to see a goal through no matter the cost turned into his most crippling weakness.
I believe this sums up the whole message of Salem as a character and RWBY as a series. Humanity ONLY works when they are together, and when that happens, they are a force even immortal beings can fear. Salem knows this perfectly, and never underestimates the power of unity. THAT is why she takes ironwood seriously.
Ironwood is a mirror for all of humanity. Strong, respected, and with working communications, be it machines or actual friends. But tip the scales, sever trust, plant doubt, and all on their own, fear and paranoia can cut out all the help that they could ever get. You just need to check every once in a while to make sure that the spark of hope doesn't kindle. And before long, Humanity will isolate and sabotage itself. Just. Like. Ironwood
1:38 "You are hereby relieved of your duty. Permanently."
My only issue is that team RWBY kinda help Ironwood to go over the edge by lying to him multiple time
All of this falls apart when you realize that Cinder acted of her own accord by putting the chest piece in his office. that wasn't some elaborate plan from the start, it was just Cinder deciding to take matters into her own hands, not Salem/Watt's.
Oh I know, but it doesn't make a difference. The point is his paranoia was a tool the villains always knew they could use. Cinder included. The chess piece was to throw him off his game and it worked.
Making Ironwood paranoid is the plan Cinder knew and add fuel to the fire.
it was a plan, that it had some lucky breaks doesn't change that fact
Except Watts had the bag with the Salem Grimm to instill paranoia on him too, Cinder just helped set fire on to that with the piece.
Yes! Even lionheart once mentioned Ironwoods “less fortunate tendencies” or something so they DEFINITELY knew where this was going
That chess piece alone made him go from crazy to batshit insane in a matter of minutes...
They say a man’s greatest enemy is himself. How true is that here...
I notice some people are like “Oh they ruined Ironwood by making him evil blah blah blah” when in reality he’s just a scared man with tunnel vision that went off the deep end. I’m glad you made this video to showcase his reverse development. Ironwood is a great character. I don’t hate him, but that doesn’t excuse his actions.
People in the fandom need to watch this
-Full name: James Ironwood
-General, fighter, and friend
-Cause of death: Broken back from single handedly carrying the show for two volumes straight.
Rest in Peace, James. You will be missed. *salute*
for all the shit people like to give crewby for bad writing, i think this slow descent into paranoia and extremism out of a desire to protect others (also aided by his semblance, of course) is a great character piece
All this time, he was just a fiddle played by Salem and her goons. . . A little puppet who was never aware of the one pulling his strings. . .
You know if that theory comes to fruit then this gives ironwood extra points as a character.
This proves one of my theories: Ironwood has always been the weakest link.
The stiff fabric that jams the loom.
That would be Lionheart, actually. It took Ironwood much, much longer to break.
@@MrAuthor3DS i meant ironwood was the easiest to manipulate
They basically took a note from The Dark Knight where Joker made a villain out of Harvey Dent.
Not only Penny was just used a tool for Salem's plans of the Fall of Beacon, she also use Ironwood right under his noses the while time since the beginning. Like you said, the Villains could just let Ironwood do all of the work for them which he kinda, almost did but failed.
Hopefully now that his aura is broken his semblance can stop him from acting and pushing his ideology and he can quit being so damn stubborn.
Very well thought out. Thank you.
I respectfully disagree. If the writers couldn't come up with a consistent story for the main characters, they couldn't have planned this. From what I can tell, the writers only plan things 1 volume at a time. Even if Ironwood's descent into madness was something they planned, the execution was terrible. RWBY lying to Ironwood at the beginning of V7 made no logical sense, and their continual behavior to undermine his work and go behind his back is not something RWBY would do especially when this guy put all his cards on the table for them to read. And then when V7 ended and people got outraged that RWBY aka the writers basically caused Ironwood's downfall for no good reason, they pull his dumb semblance out of nowhere for damage control. And they never even emphasize that semblance in the actual show, its just mentioned in a podcast and that's it.
They lied because both vol 5-6 taught them you need to be carful who you trust and the truth can destroy people. The main thing is it’s because Ironwood was apart of Ozpin inner-circle two that they met had been a traitor or just ran away. So they had to make sure it’s ok to trust him but they still willingly helped him with everything. Yes if they told sooner it probably wouldn’t end up as bad but they were scared on who to trust now and didn’t know when to take a risk properly.
@@justynhill4814 That isn’t good enough. For one thing, Ironwood had already built a good relationship with these characters before they went to Atlas. They fought alongside each other at Beacon, Ironwood commissioned the new arm for Yang, and he defended Weiss during that aristocratic party. And when they learned about Salem’s origins from the lamp and realized that Ozpin lied completely, that would have doubled down their assumptions about secrets being bad. It makes no sense that they wouldn’t trust Ironwood of all people. It’s not like Leo because we’ve never met Leo before.
@@bullmoosevelt4495- vol.5-6 they learn their can be traitors and the reason why they became traitors was because of the truth and they almost died from the Apathies because they were depressed from the truth. It’s not that they were ungrateful for what he’s done but they don’t know him on a personal level and Qrow doesn’t know who to trust anymore. So Ruby wanted to be sure and also she was scared on deep level she probably figured that he wasn’t a traitor but she was scared how he could lose it trying to think how to tell him with his state of mind but the more she hears how much he put in the plan and how it could go all wrong which makes it harder to tell. He has also shown that he was over the edge multiple times in vol.7 especially when he talked about Salem with Oscar “gravity” was when he was still good especially when everyone helped out but when cinder came with the calling card he felt compromised and lost it thinking that Mantle was a distraction but it was how the bad guys got through. Yes Ironwood should been told but at least try to understand the kids.
@@justynhill4814 The reason they were depressed and at the hands of the apathy wasn’t because of the truth but because of the fact that there was so much Ozpin lied about, the fact that he had NO PLAN for beating Salem, and on top of that, he left them all high and dry by locking himself inside Oscar’s head. There should have been no issues in terms of Ironwood being a traitor from the beginning but just to be extra sure, the high military presence in Atlas when they flew in should have been another clear indicator that he wasn’t going to submit to Salem. Your theory is that they kept the truth because they feared he would break down but V7C4 made it clear that the sole reason was trust, when Qrow and Ruby had that talk with each other about Ironwood having to “prove” himself. When they first met in Atlas Ironwood was clearly happy to see them, because finally he wasn’t alone in the struggle. Even if telling the truth about Ozpin made him see that man differently, he would have still completely trusted team RWBY, besides, what would telling him the truth change? Ironwood laid out his plan which is 1 more then either team RWBY or Ozpin had, but he hadn’t put it into action yet. There was still plenty of time to restrategize any flaws with the new details RWBY delivered about Salem. Also there is this constant idea in all their heads that they have to kill Salem to win. Did they not pay attention to what they saw in the lamp? She needs to learn the value of life to pass on. Even if they can’t figure that out, they could always find alternatives, like for example, how about we trap her in one of the vaults where the relics are kept? Telling the truth right at the end was the worst timing, there was no time to make any meaningful changes to the plan, and it revealed to Ironwood how hypocritical team RWBY was especially after they literally gave him a whole speech about telling the truth to others. And Oscar even said to Ironwood that it was because they didn’t know who to trust that they kept that information from him. I can’t blame the kids for this stupid behavior it’s all so illogical and inconsistent with their actions and beliefs that the only people responsible are the writers themselves. They squandered this entire arc that was supposed to be either the biggest climax or the biggest defeat at the hands of Salem, instead the writers ruined Ironwood’s character, and are going to pull off the huge BS to get RWBY and all the other characters and people out unscathed.
@@bullmoosevelt4495 Too late this has already been cemented as the absolute Truth.
Salem has been playing Ironwood from the very beginning without any build up mention of it other than possible art or animation slip ups and theories being taken as fact just it prove RWBY was always on the right and Ironwood was wrong.
Honestly at this point this fandom has just reached sad levels of disgusting with their behavior.
Overlord is gonna revealed himself entire multiverse world and earth he is returning tyranny of multiverse
Funny how things from years ago come back in the show and tie everything together. Ironwoods ptsd is working against him and they were smart to use that against him gotta give them credit where it’s due tbh. Great catch Dak I didn’t see it as much until now 😊
I find ironwood's story in general, but S7 in particular to be extremely compelling
"oH bUt tHeY doN'T kNoW hOw tO wRiTe"
I mean, they accidentally made a really compelling character breaking under the stress of an impossible situation and repeated betrayals, and decided to course correct him into a mustache twirling villain who tents his fingers under a dramatic spotlight and laughs as he contemplates nuking a city.
They will probably use Qrow next given the villains theme.
The Cowardly Lion. Lionheart.
The Stupid Scarecrow. Qrow
The Heartless Tinman. Ironwood.
We're missing a Dorothy, but given how Summer Rose has probably been turned into a monster . . .
The scarecrow will be the headmaster of vacuo.
@@romualdcaffeserre6230 ???
@@Darth_Bateman Proffessor theodore is the scarecrow ,and leader of vacuo academy. Every headmaster is linked to a figure of the world of oz.
@@romualdcaffeserre6230 Qrow has been the Scarecrow since day 1, Headmaster Theodore is Dorothy. If you read "Before the Dawn", it gets into that allusion a lot more.
@@Darth_Bateman- I think Qrow is all good for now when he was Fighting Clover that’s when he lost his mind because he lost it because of all the betrayal. So with the talk with Robyn it may have helped him for the moment.
This really has been a chess game between her and Ozpin this whole time. And he keeps losing, because he's spent this whole time on the defensive, trying to make sure all his pieces are where he wants them to be while *completely ignoring her.* And unlike Salem he doesn't even HAVE a long-term plan. "Villains act, heroes react."
I am surprised Ozpin did not think of sealing Salem away if he cannot destroy her.
@@rexlumontad5644 Like, perhaps, in some kind of empty void between dimensions. But it'd be impossible to make something like that! It's completely beyond mortal science!
@@bowenorcutt78 Oh I see, the empty void between dimensions where Ambrosius created a portal system for the evacuation of Atlas and Mantle's peoples and sternly warns Ruby not to fall.
That means it could have been Salem's prison if she's dumped on the empty void between dimensions.
@@rexlumontad5644 Might end up going that way, who knows! It'd be a VERY convenient way to write her out of the show if they for whatever reason decided to take it in another direction.
@@bowenorcutt78 True. Salem got Night's King-ed there.
Context: Night's King was hyped up to be the Greater Scope Villain only to die anticlimactically by Arya Ninjasue Stark in the Battle of Winterfell, leaving Cersei as the last threat in Game of Thrones Season 8 disaster.
After watching this we can now piece together ironwood's actions this current volume so far
This reminds of a quote: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
And that's... _checkmate._
I'm always impressed at how well CRWBY executed Salem's plan over the course of the show. Everything is so well thought out and foreshadowed, but only just enough so that you get a sense of direction without being able to figure everything out. Its so well done
So, Black Queen piece was Cinder? Due to her status of being Fall Maiden and those powers? That mean, Salem is black king?
I would have believed this... If someone from the team didn't blurt out he's acting like this because of his semblance🤦♀️ Had it been just been his mental state deteriorating because of what is going on, then his change would make sense. Right now, I can't tell if he's like this because of that or his semblance.
They never said it was specifically his semblance making him act this way. It's just a factor.
The best damn Hero of the series ,brought down tragically by forces he could not control and cringe MCs who never learned sigh i miss ya james you were my fountain of memes
Yo if no one feels for ironwood then they're truly irredeemable
-
“They played us like a damn fiddle!” -Ironwood, probably.
Without a doubt, this is so true. James was fundamentally a very predictable person, and even throughout his downward spiral starting from Volume 4, he never actually changed as a person. Changing circumstances simply brought out the worst in him and in Atlas's systems.
they knew about his semblance, his paranoia, his tendencies in battle. basically, they played him like a goddamn fiddle
A fiddle requires skill and practice to use. They played him like a cheap kazoo from a McDonald's Happy Meal.
See, this is why I laugh when people call RWBYs writing bad
10:32
Tyrian’s face here, what a turd. Lol.
His semblance is such a disadvantage...
One of the only characters from V4 onwards I considered great (until V8 lol)
See, this is why I never understand when people say "Ironwood did nothing wrong." He literally did everything wrong. He could have changed, he could have listened, and he could have made things better. Instead, he kept trusting his own paranoid judgment and did everything Salem wanted him to do.
@@TiltedPotatohead- it’s not even semblance anymore he was still doing this before that.
He had his reasons but it doesn’t change the fact that not only did he took resources from Mantle and lied about just like how people complained about Ruby lying.
No it’s not justified even with that Semblance and it’s literally because of his fears it’s what pushed and made all his terrible decisions for him.
Ironwood main problem is that he can’t relinquish control or has to be the one in control no matter what is said and he has people that doesn’t question him until they finally seen the downward spiral.
@@TiltedPotatohead -
1. Yes all those actions are built by fear and paranoia with the superiority complex of wanting to take control over everything. That’s what the villains exploited and knew basically what actions he would take just given the push to the right direction they wanted.
2. Robin kept hold over the resources she stolen because even if she wanted to use them Ironwood would have tried to taken them back. The point is she wanted to hold on to them to cut a deal and even to try a negotiation because all she wanted know why he was making her city and her people feel like second class citizens.
3. Not talking the kids I’m talking about Mantel and it’s people’s constantly telling what they’re using the resources for but has been secretly building amity with it. With constant Grimm attack and basically the atlas army playing exterminator instead of fixer Robin was semi in the right to question what the resources for mantle.
No Rwby main problem they gained trust issues and no matter what fancy words IW says it’s hard but they still offered him help. After he gave the lamp back Ruby crossed out he’s a traitor idea but how he reacts still frightened her because her and the kids have seen what the truth done to people who knew Ozpin. Yang and Blake wanted Robyn to see and understand that Ironwood isn’t the enemy or was the one trying to kill her and if you want to make her arm as a excuse it’s even more reason why she wants Robyn to understand Ironwood wants to help.
The main issue that Salem and Cinder knew how to press and put the pressure on Ironwood and fear had caused everyone to make their own best decision they thought would help but the clash of idea’s caused the rift. Which each failure Ironwood fears grew out of control to this point and had caused his end. Enough said.
@@TiltedPotatohead- every action of his was because of fear, fear that people don’t see the big picture so he has to force his ideas on other and take out those who disagree.
Fear was the poison and end Ironwood and kept him separated from others. Those who were loyal never question anything which made worse as they go and made him go deeper in his paranoia. The main aspect of what Salem wanted was for him drown in his own fears and destroy both cities from inside sacrificing anything or anyone to just be ahead of her
Nobody betrayed him they helped him because they knew he was trying help everyone and Robyn needed to know that which is why Yang and Blake convinced her to help and see that he was on everyone side.
Fear was the theme in Vol 7 and it will remain the theme. Yeah Yang criticized but she was everyone was blaming themselves for problems out of their control which is why Vol.8 helped air out their problems and figured somethings out.
@@TiltedPotatohead- also what is so hard to blame the freaking dark witch who knows how to use fear as a weapon and has centuries years of mind manipulation?