I never understood it to mean that they built the house specifically for Lupin. I thought that the house was already there- old and abandoned- and that they just built the tunnel/entrance to it for him. And then after, When Lupin was transforming there, that Dumbledore just encouraged the rumors of the old house being haunted.
I get a kick out of the exaggeration the guys engage in about this -- Dumbledore picking curtain fabrics, deciding on wainscotting, whatever -- but I think you are correct. He didn't create the Shrieking Shack: he **adapted** it, and then gently nudged rumors to monger, if I can butcher a phrase.
"This house, the tunnel that leads to it - they were built for my use. Once a month, I was smuggled out of the castle, into this place, to transform. The tree was placed at the tunnel mouth to stop anyone coming across me while I was dangerous." - Lupin
I understood it that way as well. I just figured it was an abandoned house for years and Dumbledore just "decorated" and maybe added some extra features to the shell of the house, so therefore he "built it" for Lupin...
That still isn't enough they needed to say. "The rat is Peter Pettigrew. Sirius and Peter switched places. Peter was the secret keeper. Peter faked his death and framed Sirius. He betrayed and killed the Potters. Give me the rat we transform him and show you "
You guys are just *stuck* on the idea that Peter uses his wand to transform. In the books there is no indication that he uses the wand on himself. He attacks Crookshanks and Ron and then is disarmed, then Harry yells at him to stop, *then* he transforms. Reread that paragraph and tell me where you think he uses any magic on himself. The movies are different, it shows him putting some spell on himself, but given that there are other animagus transformations that don't require wands (Sirius and McGonagall, though now that I think of it those all may just have been reverting to human) it could easily be something else. My two top choices are that he has to remove whatever spell Sirius and Remus used to force him to human or that he put some kind of concealment or other protection on himself (since he's planning on running away to Albania [also weird that Voldy is so obsessed with Albania that he hid out there both before and after Quirrel... maybe they have good snakes?]).
Dumbledore used Lupin as an excuse to build the Shrieking Shack so he could write it off as a school expense and then after Remus graduated Dumbledore was going to renovate it into a nice weekend home for himself but he just never found the time
I like to imagine Dumbledore watching the stock market for changes in real estate, or sitting down with a mug of hot chocolate to watch HGTV for renovation ideas…. Even him walking around a Home Depot 😂
I looked up sunset times in Scotland by month, and I think it's entirely possible that even though it was "night" it wasn't dark yet when Lupin left the castle. I don't think being indoors would effect the transformation or else Lupin's howling wouldn't have been coming from inside the shack growing up. But I imagine there would have to be no sunlight left, and it takes a long time for it to get dark in Scotland at the end of spring/beginning of summer.
I'm not a Snape apologist. He's still an adult choosing to wallow in his pain and take it out on others/children, but whatever trauma he went through/witnessed at home-his dad, "didn't like anything, much-"stunted him emotionally long before he got to school with the Marauders. So, he's probably operating on a seven-year-old's logic/idea of vengeance here.
1:15:00 In HBP, after Sirius dies, Harry despairs that he never asked Sirius if he played as well as James. I find it really heartbreaking (& probably a reflection of reality) that as readers not just relying on memory of this conversation but with a written record we know that Sirius *did* tell him.
23:20 Snape is there to get revenge on Sirius and Lupin, not to save the kids. Regarding how mean he is to Hermione, I think Snape feels threatened by how smart Hermione is.
The fourth book mentions them burying a deceased inmate so they must have some pretty anthropomorphic abilities and responsibilities, like any other guard. Just imagining them carrying keys and unlocking the cells is weird and creepy.
I think about this often. Who is taking prisoners to the showers, who is doing bed checks, who is filing the prison paperwork? Is there a dementor receptionist, someone had to set up fudges visit, who regulates this stuff? And when fudge says “the dementors are furious” and “I had to visit to see the dementors about this black business…” like does fudge talk to the dementors? Is there a head dementor? A warden? Do the dementors do magic? Who keeps the jail cells locked? Dementors have cold sweaty hands, can they hold keys? Who’s in charge of making keys and the logistics of that???? I think about this often….. 🥴🤦🏼♀️
A relatively simple explanation for the werewolf transformation could be something like: if the person is aware that there is a full moon, something inside him will get triggered and he will transform into a wolf. This way it makes sense how Lupin would transform indoors and also why he didn't transform that night until he saw the moon, because he was to distracted by Peter showing on the map.
Another, maybe even simpler explanation is that it was just question of timing and it have nothing to do about the moonlight. Moon needs to reach exact point on the sky (lets say... midnight?) for you to become a werewolf. It just happened to be more dramatic, because they see the moon at the same time.
Either way. The sentiment is the same. Give me a reason… and their point was, he did. Sirius surely gave snape tons of reasons to kill him. Especially from snapes point of view…
@@nathanielburke2770 I think from Snapes point of view, he was a bully as a child, almost killed Snape. Then as an adult he betrayed his best friend, worked for Voldemort, was responsible for 20+ peoples deaths, and had been actively trying to kill Harry for a year. Not to mention that Sirius’s punishment for all these crimes is death, or the dementors kiss. It’s not like Snape wouldn’t have been backed by the ministry and most of the general public. They think Sirius is a killer and trying to kill more, in addition to attempting to bring back the dark lord…. Snape knows all of this and still doesn’t kill him. I think that says a lot about Snapes character. I hate that everyone acts like Sirius is 100% innocent. Even Dumbledore says it “Sirius has not acted like an innocent man…” So do I personally think Snape should have killed Sirius? No. But I do think that if he did, most people, Fudge included would have patted him on the back and gave him an Order of Merlin.
@@Huff-and-Puff By this point in the book Snape has been presented with enough evidence to realise that Sirius can't be guilty of the murder of James, Lily or one of those muggles, Lupin says it himself, He's willing to see an innocent man killed for the sake of a schoolboy grudge. Even later on in the hospital wing he lies to Fudge and continues to try to get Sirius killed. He also tries to get Lupin kissed by the dementors
The idea that Lupin was attempting to abandon his family when he tried to join the trio just never made any sense to me. Like when Harry turns him down it's not like he just goes to sit at with his pregnant wife, he's still out doing life threatening missions for the order, so literally what difference does it make? That scene will never not be weird to me
The reason to switch secret keepers is not because Sirius might give them up, but because upon his death the secret would be weakened. When Dumbledore dies this is explained, but I imagine Sirius would refuse to tell the secret and they would kill him, then you would have about 3-5 secret keepers. If you switch and Wormtail doesn’t suck butts and Serius is killed, no harm to the secret.
When Dumbledore dies, they all become secret keeper because dumbledore told each of them the secret. If they’d made Sirius secret keeper and if he hadn’t told anyone the secret would’ve died with him, right?
@@laurarenders6767 Yes, I think so, but the Potters couldn't have survived indefinitely without supplies, which would be delivered by those who knew the secret. We know that at least Pettigrew visited them, but there were likely a small handful of others.
There would’ve been a few people, lily and James themselves, and probably Peter, Remus, and Dumbledore. Maybe more but that’s what I’d expect at minimum. And that would technically dilute the power of the charm.
YES! It took me a while to get this but it's bc serious had no plans to go into hiding. He wants in the field. But if he's killed even on accident it's over.
I won’t defend Snape, but I kind of understand him. To him, everything that has gone wrong in his life comes down to the events of “Snape’s worst memory”: James and Sirius humiliated him, he snapped back at Lily and that destroyed their friendship. Everything went downhill from there. It is partly his own fault, but doesn’t everyone prefer blaming others before blaming themselves?
Abusers will use your reaction to their abuse as justification. Yes Snape insulted her, but you cannot say he was not in an agitated state, pushed to the breaking point by the marauders' abuse. Snape is a cautionary tale about allowing abuse to control you and falling into the cycle of abuse. He does make terrible choices as an adult and should be held accountable. This does not mean the marauders, and James and Sirius in particular, are not abusers
Nah,they were justified. Snape was going around saying slurs and openly stating he wanted to become a Death Eater (a magical Nazi) during a time when Voldemort was taking over the country. He deserved what he got @@PcCAvioN
Snape also had a pretty terrible attitude about everything in general, and he surely knew Lily wouldn't be down with what he was getting involved with even before the memory, but yes, in Snapes eyes, he's the victim
@kaillah It's been a hot second since I read the books so I could be wrong but I don't remember them bullying him prior to him becoming a magical racist. I know they were mocking Slytherin on the train but that was probably because it's the house Voldemort hailed from and he is currently terrorising the magical world. And I certainly don't remember them bullying anyone else. Also,he wasn't stripped naked. It's also not just "stupid shit" he's saying. He's going around with other pure blood fanatics and not for nothing,he and the others DO become death eaters,he even becomes Voldemort's right hand man. But no,they should have just let him get away with being a bigot? It annoys me that people think they can get away with being terrible by hiding behind rules and this notion that violence is this terrible evil. Some people deserve a good wholloping. Trust me,I was bullied,I'd empathise with Snape but he was actually being the bully to a whole race of people,punching down. James and the others were serving justice to him
@kaillah Adding onto that last point of him being indoctrinated by the Death Eaters The biggest example being that when he is sorted he goes and sits next to Lucius who is a Prefect at that point. Edit to add: In the Snape’s Worst Memory scene what James and Sirius do is completely unprovoked. Snape is minding his own business and gets attacked after he gets up to leave. He isn’t doing anything except “existing” (James’ words). And then what James says to Lily “Go out with me and I’ll never bother ol Snivily again” Like why did she even marry this guy fr…
Ollivander does say that a wand MIGHT change its allegiance if taken by force. He specifically does not say that this happens in every case. The wand still chooses the wizard.
Just because Peter was the secret keeper, that doesn't mean that Sirius couldn't "find" their house. The secret keeper can tell others where it is. Just take a look at how they handled Grimald Place.
Exactly. There's hard evidence in that one letter that people (particularly Sirius) don't visit very often/at all, but they certainly could know. And unless Peter is the only one doing their grocery shopping, they probably have someone local (like Bathilda Bagshot, maybe) in on it.
Part 2 of some of my favorite Ron moments. Again, Ron stands up on his broken leg. And then practically grows, "Chain him to me!" The rage of betrayal in that moment. In hindsight, horrendous idea to have Ron, who's still injured, and Lupin, with potential change on the horizon, do it. But still, badass moment for Ron!
1:02:47 Sirius specifically using the phrase “biggest bully on the playground” seems to him self admitting to being a bully during school. Maybe because he just saw how much Snape still hates him after such a long time.
On the wolfsbane potion, understood it to be a recent invention, the tiny population size of the wizarding world would mean trial periods for new medical treatments would pretty much not exist individual patients would have individual doctors prescribing and modifying their treatment as needed, Snape is one of the world's best potion makers at this time, just like real medicine it's not perfect nor are the professionals completely knowledgeable, go through a few real life medical situations and you will know they are doing their best but it is FAR from flawless
It is also very expensive and difficult to brew. Even if someone was passionate about researching and improving it they would have to be very rich to do so. Unfortunately, I don't think werewolves would be able to do it themselves since most of them live in poverty.
On Lupin and the full moon: I think that thanks to the wolfsbane potion, Lupin can run about in a cloudy night. However, this doesn’t prevent the transformation in direct moonlight. And since he didn’t take the potion that night, he transforms into a werewolf in direct moonlight rather than into a regular wolf. Without the potion, he would transfer into a werewolf whenever there is full moon, most likely +/- 1 day, regardless of weather.
I have been thinking about this one for a while, too. Consider the following: dynamic tension. Once you are infected, there are factors that tend toward your wolfishness, and factors that tend toward your humanness. Greyback promotes the wolfish factors, and Remus promotes the humanizing ones. FULLNESS OF MOON The moon, earth, and sun being constantly in motion relative to each other, "actual fullness" is a instantaneous event. You could consider the moon to be "full," however, a little before and a little after the event. Perhaps we could call the moon full when, say, 97% or more of the moon's face is illuminated from our point of view in a location on the surface of the earth. Anytime the moon is "full" (97%) or more it increases the wolfish factors. Darkness in your location may also increase it. And, frankly, having the moon's light touch your skin may also increase it. Emotional states, attachment to your humanity, and other things (having a therapeutic dose of wolfsbane potion, for example) could be humanizing factors that oppose the wolfish ones, thus creating tension. That tension is dynamic because the triggers are always changing. So Remus is fighting to hold himself together when all this stuff is going down. And the moon coming out from behind the clouds is just the straw that broke the werewolf's back.
The hour of the night could be a contriputing factor as well. When Lupin walks to the Shrieking Shak it is still just after sun set which may not yet count as night (eventhough that happns pretty late in summer). This could explain why a cloud is enough to keep him from changing at that point. When they get outside again several hours must have past so it is finally night time and the moonlight more potent but ti could still take a while to take effect unless the person is exposed directly to the light.
I was going to say something pretty much like that. It seems the best explanation. Wolvesbane potion is not a cure, just a symptomatic suppression. Regular use reduces the condition somewhat, so you might not transform if you're not in direct moonlight.
I do agree that Lupin should've fought Fenrir Greyback. Here's a scenario: in the Battle of Hogwarts Harry is running down a hallway looking for the diadem. Fenrir stops him and growls: "I don't know or care what the Dark Lord has planned for you but I'm going to kill you myself." Lupin calmly walks around the corner and goes: "If you want him you got to through me. Run Harry." And as Harry is running away you hear spells going off.
47:37 About this I have a theory So I think at this point Lilly James and Sirius knew that there was a spy in the order so If sirius is the secret keeper and he dies then people who knew about their home at Godric Hollow would become the secret keeper As they know that there is a spy between them so they made wormtail their secret keeper and let everyone believe that sirius is the secret keeper so even if sirius is killed Potters will be safe
Because he thinks he’s dead. If you were to see someone you could recognize anywhere, but they’re dead, would you think they’re actually alive, or that it’s just someone who looks similar
Remember, Peter was in rat form for 12 years, unable to transform back. As a rat’s lifespan is about 4 years, his rat body was barely clinging to life. This had to have some effect on Peter’s physical form as well. To live so long as a rat had to impact Peter’s human form when he was transformed back. Love your podcasts! Thank you for all your hard work! When are you coming to the Midwest?!
It's so nice that also on this occasion Lupin is in the Shrieking Shack on the night he transforms. Doesn't matter for the story that much but is a nice detail imo
I love your analysis videos; they are so much fun! I want to point out, though, that the two of you completely glossed over the sentence where Sirius threatens Peter if Peter tries to transform back into a rat. In my opinion, this indicates that Peter DOESN'T need a wand to transform.
I honestly think it'd made more sense to have been daytime when they all entered the Shack, but by the time they made it back out, night have fallen. At least that'd explain how Lupin was able to walk around with no worries of transforming.
Or the moon had risen while they were inside the shack. Most werewolf lore has the transformation from moon rise to moon set regardless of the time of night or day even.
It has to be nighttime though because it is almost midnight when Dumbledore tells them to go back three hours in time. So that would mean they go back to 9 pm
It mentions that it was already night before they enter the tunnel. Buckbeak is executed at sundown. The sun sets as they leave and darkness falls as they are struggling to manage Scabbers. The moon, however, had not necessarily risen, yet.
My take on the Lupin vs clouds vs full moon thing: He's been taking the wolfsbane potion every night for the last week, right? So, therefore, he isn’t suffering the full effects of lycanthopy. In school, he would have turned into a werewolf just by it being the correct night, but now, with most of the wolfsbane potion (just missing tonight's dose), it took the full power of direct moonlight to trigger the transformation.
Re: reviving Snape Here’s the thing though. They have Peter bound and gagged. So why not revive Snape? Hold onto his wand for the moment and make sure he can see Peter.
1:05:39 Sirius in Azkaban is like Riley at the end of Inside Out. All his Core Memories were tainted by Sadness, so his sense of Self was protected from the Dementors.
Was the shrieking shack built in '71? Or was just the whomping willow planted then to cover the passage to it? I've always been under the impression that the shack had been there for a much longer time, and it was just put to use once Lupin arrived at school.
Lupin specifically says “this house, the tunnel that leads to it and the womping wiillow were built for my use” those might not be the exact words but he definitely says the shrieking shack was built for him.
On the topic of werewolves and the full moon: in Scotland in June, the sun sets closer to 10:30 or 11, because it’s so far north. Buckbeaks appeal is at 9pm if I remember correctly. So if they spent 1.5-2h getting pulled under the tree and talking, it’s not until they get back to the grounds that the moon would be high enough in the sky for a transformation. My understanding is that it is purely coincidence that the clouds parted at that instant.
How sad that Harry forgets that Sirius just told him that he flies as well as James. After Sirius dies, Harry grieves that he was never told if he was as good as James. I don't know if this is an author error or author torture torment that we readers can't tell Harry that he was told how good he flew. If only Luna had known, she'd have reminded him.
When it comes to Peter and the marauders in school i cant see a realistic situation in the 60’s and 70’s where the most popular group of guys that are notorious for their intelligence, sporting talent, pranks, and bullying would actually be friends with a person like Peter. Hes the exact type of person that they would’ve bullied irl
I had always assumed that one of the main reasons why Snape was so agitated to Sirius and Remus (aside from the obvious abuse he suffered as a child) was that he still believes Sirius to have essentially caused the death of Lily. Though I don't know if we know if he knew about Sirius specifically being the secret keeper afterwards, Dumbledore does say that they put their faith in the wrong person. So I can see Snape thinking about how he had risked himself to turn spy for Dumbledore for her safety, which Sirius had betrayed, and becoming as angry and bitter as he is in this chapter.
I think what Sirius was trying to prevent was the creation of more secret keepers upon his death. As we know from Dumbledore’s death the death of a secret keeper causes all who they shared the secret with to become secret keepers. So by killing Sirius Voldemort would multiply the people he could potentially get the info from. But by having it be in Peter even upon Sirius’s death the secret would still only be with one
I know it's an episode later but I just wanted to say I thank and appreciate that you guys did the last chapter with the audience and a separate video that wasn't nearly as interruptive so thank you very much
My head cannon is they just found a house and moved the entire thing, furnishings and all, to the outskirts of hogsmead, not trying to make a big deal about it. Then once the villagers started noticing the howling Dumbledore told people it was severely haunted, and it was placed there for safe keeping.
33:00 I've always interpreted it that the Elder Wand is the only one that changes allegiance on a dime - like it would take more than just being disarmed for any normal wands to change masters. Also, something I've just noticed, and correct me if I'm wrong, but are Harry and Ron the only confirmed cases we have in the series of non-Elder Wands changing their allegiance? Because they both physically take Peter and Draco's wands from them, so maybe the rule is that you have to physically overpower a wand's former master, because if it worked through Expelliarmus, then wand allegiance would be a complete free-for-all.
There are characteristics of wand woods and cores being easier or harder to win over. Snape's is (according to the fan wiki, I can't find any more solid source) ebony and dragon heartstring/phoenix feather/kelpie triple core. The official page says ebony wands choose stubborn/loyal owners, so the wands themselves are also probably hard to sway, and the wiki says the core makes it "temperamental" for other users, even Voldy.
Lupin sees 2 harry and 2 Hermione on the map. Realizing the time turners are in use he rushes from his office to handle the situation. Leaving map open and not taking his potion.
In my mind, dementors feeding on happiness is like lice being attracted to a clean scalp. Its the well-kept nature that attacts them, but makes you experience the opposite
What if Snape (the Half-Blood Prince himself) has been modifying the wolfsbane potion to improve its efficacy. Maybe he has developed an improved version that allows something as seemingly trivial as cloud cover to prevent Lupin from turning into a wolf.
That does sound like something Severus "let me scribble passive-aggressive corrections over every inch of free space in my potions book" Snape would do.
Small thing: Peter is cunning, yes, and has a talent for quick thinking. However, I would argue that he was also a very skilled wizard. He was overshadowed by his more powerful friends (plus Lily, who probably cast the Fidelius Charm), but Peter wàs still exceptional. If you consider all the magic that he does, you realise why Voldemort made him a Death Eater. It's probably why Peter joined Voldemort in the first place. Yeah, really. Just imagine Peter's time at Hogwarts, working hard, but never catching up to the others. Nobody acknowledges his talent. Then one day during the war, Peter casts a particularly difficult bit of magic to save someone. Voldemort is impressed, and upon finding Peter, he commends him. It's the first time that anyone has recognised him as a skilled wizard, and it sets him on the dark path.
I appreciate that both of you voice what is likely going on in the heads of the characters other than Harry. What you talk about for Lupin and Ron in particular lends some interesting insights. Ben, I really like your take on Lupin knowing Snape is there.
We learn a lot about the Fidelius Charm in Deathly Hallows. Dumbledore was the original Secret Keeper for the Order's Headquarters; when he dies, everyone else becomes the Secret Keeper for HQ. We learn this after the Ministry of Magic/Slytherin's Locket raid, when Hermione accidentally takes Yaxley into the protected area and thus passes on the secret of the location to the Death Eaters. A mole was suspected within the Order of the Phoenix. If Sirius would have died for Lily and James, everyone else in the Order of the Phoenix would become Secret Keeper in turn, which includes the mole, and Voldemort would know straight away. Sirius feared this and convinced James and Lily to make someone else the Secret Keeper, to provide them with another layer of protection in case Sirius himself was haunted for the secret. The choice became Peter, because Peter was a trusted friend as part of the Marauders, and a highly unlikely candidate to become the Secret Keeper (with Sirius being the obvious candidate; Sirius suspecting Lupin).
I always felt that peter chose to stay a rat, being "chained" by his fear of the remaining death eaters. And that they (Sirius and Remus) use magic to bind him in human form after forcing his transformation, that being why he needs a wand.
Maybe if Lupin was there, he would’ve had the idea to get the locket off Umbrage when she was outside of the ministry. It would’ve saved a lot of trouble having a break in, and using poly juice potion as a solution yet again.
Since Lupin’s lycanthropy is supposed to be an allegory for certain stigmatised conditions, I actually think it would make sense if his condition was more manageable than people realised and that a lot of the fear surrounding it is due to people’s ignorance or misunderstanding. It makes Lupin’s story even more tragic IMO if people are literally ostracising him and thinking he is this terrible monster who can’t be around anyone at any time, when really it only affects him one night a month if he’s physically outside under a full moon that isn’t obscured by clouds. I’d never really thought much into how the werewolf thing actually worked, but I think your interpretation actually makes me appreciate the parallel more.
Even if Sirius isn't the secret KEEPER for James and Lily's house, he can still know where it is. Peter could have told him, as he must have told Bathilda Bagshot and (presumably) Dumbledore and Hagrid.
Yes, but the charm means that only Peter can pass on the information. Anyone he gives the address to would not be able to pass it on to others, no matter what.
@@Cailus3542 Sure, but clearly Dumbledore, Hagrid, Bathilda, and Sirius at the very least knew where the house was. So Peter must have told them. And there's actually a bit of murkiness in how the fidelius charm works. Why did the charm break when Lily and James died? Peter (the secret keeper) was still alive. Harry was still alive. Unless there's some mechanism that allows the secret keeper to break the charm (which we never hear about), Hermione shouldn't be able to see the house in book 7. The charm should still be active as long as Peter and Harry are still alive, presumably.
@@PalmelaHanderson We've seen that written notes by the Secret Keeper are sufficient, thereby protecting their identity. Beyond that, Harry speculated that the failed curse and Voldemort's "death" caused so much damage to the house that the charm was broken. The charm is placed on the building, not people.
Snape doesn't like Hermione clearly because she is what he calls a 'mudblood'. Yeah, she might be someone who could remind him of Lilly, but Lilly herself tells him that he calls everyone else who is 'like her a mudblood'. Snape is not a good guy... Snape just happens to work for the good team because of his love (or insane affection) for a single person. Don't forget that he was willing to throw James and Harry under the bus as long as he could get Lilly for herself (i'm wondering how that relationship would have gone... maybe don't think about it) and he only reluctantly agrees to Dumbledore's plan of protecting them all (which the latter was doing anyway). Snape doesn't have a lot of redeeming qualities and his work against Voldemort could easily be interpreted as revenge (although he seems to at least believe himself genuinely that he does it out of love).
Severus no longer thinks that way as an adult. The Deathly Hallows: “Headmaster! They are camping in the Forest of Dean! The Mudblood--” “Do not use that word!” “--the Granger girl, then, mentioned the place as she opened her bag and I heard her!” He truly believes in the cause and works for the order because he genuinely wants to protect people. He even tries to protect Lupin and checks on Sirius immediately after Harry tells him he is in danger. He is also very distressed when Dumbledore forces him to kill him. The Deathly Hallows: “Don’t be shocked, Severus. How many men and women have you watched die?” “Lately, only those whom I could not save,” said Snape. The Deathly Hallows: He was accompanied by other hooded Death Eaters, and ahead were Lupin and a Harry who was really George. ... A Death Eater moved ahead of Snape and raised his wand, pointing it directly at Lupin’s back - “ Sectumsempa” shouted Snape. But the spell, intended for the Death Eater’s wand hand, missed and hit George instead. He started with selfish reasons but he completely switched to the good side once he realized his mistakes. Something similar happened to Dumbledore, only after his brother and sister were made target did he realize he was wrong and started fighting Grindelwald. Up until then he was not a good person. The Deathly Hallows: Grindelwald. You cannot imagine how his ideas caught me, Harry, inflamed me. Muggles forced into subservience. We wizards triumphant. Grindelwald and I, the glorious young leaders of the revolution. ... He vanished, with his plans for seizing power, and his schemes for Muggle torture, and his dreams of the Deathly Hallows, dreams in which I had encouraged him and helped him. He ran, while I was left to bury my sister, and learn to live with my guilt and my terrible grief, the price of my shame. Severus is still a massive bullying prick tho.
Lupin stays at GP while the trio breaks into MoM. When they appear back with Yaxley (?) , Lupin is waiting and AK's Yaxley. Earningthe trust of the trio. "I knew you were planning something and wanted to be ready"
I always assumed that Siris didn’t tell anyone about Peter being secret keeper it was the only way to convince Peter to do it. Like Peter wanted it a secret to be a backup plan in case anything happens and told Siris that he was too afraid to do it if everyone else knew about it.
Especially since I’ve watched the movies first, the Lupin transforming only later felt like it was maybe trying to infer that he transforms at a particular time in the middle of the night of a full moon and just because of movie convenience, the time came to fruition right when they came outside and was signified with the clouds parting. It felt like an extra ticking clock for them to get Peter back to the castle before he transforms for the night. (At least when TRYING to have a better fitting explanation in my head lol)
The more y'all talk, the more I think Animagus is like Animorphs without the time limit: Human is your base form, and it can get hurt, but any damages taken in animal form is healed when going back to being human.
In Animorphs the human wounds also heal on morph, not counting haircuts and piercings (and, if the fan community is to be believed, probably circumcision, as Jake's family is at least nominally Jewish). But yeah, an animagus's human wounds do seem to stay and transfer to animal form.
Wouldn't Snape bring the wolfsbane potion with him? Regardless of whether he thinks Lupin is guilty, no one wants to encounter a werewolf at the full moon!
The Fidelius charm secret keeper passes to everyone who knows the secret if the original is killed. Sirius convincing them to make Peter the secret keeper is safer because even though Sirius wouldn't expose the Potters, he knows he'll be the first person to be killed which drastically weakens the protection and increases the odds that the spy (as they suspect there is one in The Order) would be able to then tell Voldemort. Peter's not an obvious target and is cowardly and adept at getting out of trouble/hiding so he was the best choice. This also fits with why they wouldn't use Dumbledore because he's the most likely to go head to head with Voldemort and may die...and he's pretty old so could just die anyway.
There are a lot of possible explanations for why Lupin doesn't transform until the moonlight hits him. 1. The full moon needs to be fully risen into the sky, and it's a coincidence that it happens right as they exit the tunnel. OR 2. The moonlight speeds up the process and makes it immediate, but he would have transformed anyways, just later, if he stayed inside. OR 3. There is a psychological component to the transformation, and knowing that theres a full moon is a necessary part of transforming. So normally, lupin would just keep track and know its a full moon, but this time his mind was elsewhere until the moon was revealed, causing him to remember and transform. Anyways, while i agree it just comes down to plot convenience, i do think there are reasonable explanations for him transforming when he does.
I think the way Peter could have gotten wind that Sirius was going to break into the common room. Was perhaps he saw Crookshanks steal the passwords from Neville's bedside while he was hidden in the room.
Mobili expresses general movement (e.g. mobile). Levi suggests lifting up (e.g. levitate). Neither prefix suggests a precise motion. The fact that levicorpus turns you upside down, suspending you by your ankle is a "bonus" that Snape added.
Headcanon is that the wolfsbane potion, being new, hasn't been studied for long-term effects and having taken so much of it for so many months, the full moon is becoming less and less powerful, so at this point cloud cover can prevent it - at least, for a time.
I think the line about a crazed look in Snape's eyes/ degranged look is more him being upset and wanting revenge, wanting to keep the blame on the Marauders (Sirius) for Lily's death - they didnt protect her one of them betrayed her where abouts, blame someone else besides himself. All his pain from that night came back to him, and he only wanted to hurt someone. He did not want to listen to reason.
Sparing Wormtail. The first of two decisions that must haunt Harry for the rest of his life (the other being coming up with the idea for both him and Cedric to take the tri-wizard cup at the same time).
To the wand allegiance thing, I feel like it's easily forgotten that wands have different levels of loyalty. While wand allegiances are a big plot point in DH, it doesn't seem to be a common worry in the wizarding world. The wandlore says that unicorn hair wands are really loyal and don't work well as hand me downs for that reason. So while it is possible to win a wand, not all wands are as easily won. The Elder Wand is partially built on the concept of it being very disloyal and ready to work with a new wielder really easily. We don't know about Draco's wand, but I can totally see a situation where Draco's internal turmoil during the last 2 books may have caused him and his wand to grow apart or something that made the wand willing to switch to Harry so easily.
I was thinking some similar thoughts. It is said multiple times in the books that “the wand chooses the wizard” That combined with the different temperaments of different cores of said wands- Just because you may beat your opponent doesn’t mean you win over the wand. Think of dueling club… or even any class that has practical spells that they practice on one another.. wands of the practicing witch and wizards seem to know that it is just practice - they don’t change allegiance when their masters are disarmed.
Not to be a Snape defender here, but when he says “well drag the werewolf” he’s talking about when Lupin transforms upon leaving the shack. Obvi they can’t have a werewolf out and about and clearly it wouldn’t just walk up with them so it has to be dragged.
The full moon didn’t rise over Scotland till 12:45 am in July of 1993 that might be why it took so long for lupin to transform that night. The moon beams would not have come over the horizon till around 11:30 that night.
@kaillah what made me think of it was how the moon is right now here in Mississippi, we have a full moon in 3 days and I could see it yesterday before the sun went down and when I got up at 3 am it had already set.
@@cptjeff1 In the book (it'll come up next chapter, maybe they'll finally actually read the paragraph) he uses the wand to attack Ron and Crookshanks before getting disarmed, *then* he transforms. I'm sure he absolutely intended to use it later as well and clearly did not need it to transform.
My interpretation of the wand changing owners is more dependent on the wand itself being fickle in some way. The elder wand has a trail of blood so it is accustomed to changing owners through conquest so it readily changes allegiance. The only other specific example of changed ownership we know of is Draco's wand, but given its unicorn core and Draco's use of dark magic it may have felt betrayed by its owner so it was no longer as loyal to him.
It's also important that Draco and Dumbledore never reclaim their wands after being disarmed. Most times somebody is disarmed, they are able to retrieve their wand and its allegiance never changes.
Cool idea for prophecies being weapons: they could be a bit like that golden apple of Eden in AC series, where if you’d unleash the prophecy on someone who is not supposed to hear it they go mad or something
46:53 Of course Sirius can visit the Potters, if he couldn’t and Peter could it would be a terrible secret keeper diversion. I think Peter immediately told Sirius, then Peter wrote down the address on pieces of paper for Sirius to show others (like Mody shows Harry the note from Dumbledore), otherwise everyone would know they switched. Let’s remember that Dumbledore is unaware of the switch, yet he visited James to borrow the cloak, so they had to trick him somehow. Also, in Lily’s letter she mentions that Sirius couldn’t be there for Harry’s birthday because the order had to come first, in other words Sirius was planning to attend, which means he must know the secret.
1:43:34 i think there should have been a duel between the death eaters and the trio in the three broomsticks before the real battle. it feels like a a great setting and just a good narrative element
17:55 Fact that Lupin says "you don't know everything" can imply that Snape wasn't there the entire time they had that long retelling about the past. Otherwise Lupin won't have said "you don't know everything" - meaning Snape arrived somewhere at that point near the ending of the retelling
45:25 I understand Sirius' logic to switch secret keepers as this: 1. Sirius himself was definitely going to die, since most people will deduce that he is the secret keeper given that he is James' bsst friend and all 2. If Sirius dies, someone else needs to be the secret keeper, otherwise there's no secret. In my understanding the fidelius charm doesn't work without a secret keeper. When dumbledore, whoever knew the secret (Grimmauld Place) automatically became the secret keeper. So no secret keeper = no fidelius charm 3. James and Lily would have to find another secret keeper when Sirius died, so he suggested the most unlikely choice - peter pettigrew, who is also a rat, so the one who can most easily hide or run away.
Lupin trying to join them doesnt help in many cases, he still turns into a wolf… and id assume he wouldnt have any potion available to him while he’s camping. Its just another thing to worry about
I'd love to see a "What if Sirius Black actually was guilty?" Imagine the changes! Like, at first you think nothing changes, but then things get interesting VERY quickly. Would he survive Azkaban? Would he be able to break out? With Peter dead, valiantly dieing for Lily and James, would Black be the one bringing Voldemort back? Would he be a death eater? And for what reason? What would have made him betray his friends? Maybe them shunning him after truly killing Snape when they were in school? How about the ministery of magic? Would Harry still be lured to the department of mysteries? There are MANY thgs that hinge upon Sirius being who he is and doing what he does. So it would mane a great "What if..." I think.
Hearing you think out how things might have been different had Lupin joined them was great! The thought process as good, if not better, than the result. Instead of doing just a finished "What if" video, try doing one where you think things through. You probably wouldn't be able to think the whole issue through in one sitting, so people could respond and you could do another session and so on until you had it worked out, then do the finished theory video.
my takeaway from Snape being so deranged was not only is he facing his bullies, but as far as he was concerned in that moment, he was face to face with the man who was responsible for Lilly's death =s
I always thought of it as lupine had been taking the wolfsbane potion for the past week leading up to the full moon which is why the transformation was delayed and him not taking it on the night of was just enough to allow the transformation
I never understood it to mean that they built the house specifically for Lupin. I thought that the house was already there- old and abandoned- and that they just built the tunnel/entrance to it for him. And then after, When Lupin was transforming there, that Dumbledore just encouraged the rumors of the old house being haunted.
I get a kick out of the exaggeration the guys engage in about this -- Dumbledore picking curtain fabrics, deciding on wainscotting, whatever -- but I think you are correct. He didn't create the Shrieking Shack: he **adapted** it, and then gently nudged rumors to monger, if I can butcher a phrase.
Definitely, it's been there for decades.
Yes exactly, except I don’t think it was mentioned directly if the tunnel was built for Lupin or already there and they just put ol Wompy over it
"This house, the tunnel that leads to it - they were built for my use. Once a month, I was smuggled out of the castle, into this place, to transform. The tree was placed at the tunnel mouth to stop anyone coming across me while I was dangerous." - Lupin
I understood it that way as well. I just figured it was an abandoned house for years and Dumbledore just "decorated" and maybe added some extra features to the shell of the house, so therefore he "built it" for Lupin...
"The rat killed Lily." All Remus or Sirius had to say.
@@Tylerthephantom yeah but lupin thinks "the rat was better then you at sports" would be a bigger attention getter
That still isn't enough they needed to say. "The rat is Peter Pettigrew. Sirius and Peter switched places. Peter was the secret keeper. Peter faked his death and framed Sirius. He betrayed and killed the Potters. Give me the rat we transform him and show you "
@@Tylerthephantom @Tylerthephantom the rat BETRAYED the Potters which lead to Voldemort kiling them. He didn't actually kill them.
@@UnfazedPhoenixto paraphrase Sirius, "he may as well have."
You guys are just *stuck* on the idea that Peter uses his wand to transform. In the books there is no indication that he uses the wand on himself. He attacks Crookshanks and Ron and then is disarmed, then Harry yells at him to stop, *then* he transforms. Reread that paragraph and tell me where you think he uses any magic on himself.
The movies are different, it shows him putting some spell on himself, but given that there are other animagus transformations that don't require wands (Sirius and McGonagall, though now that I think of it those all may just have been reverting to human) it could easily be something else. My two top choices are that he has to remove whatever spell Sirius and Remus used to force him to human or that he put some kind of concealment or other protection on himself (since he's planning on running away to Albania [also weird that Voldy is so obsessed with Albania that he hid out there both before and after Quirrel... maybe they have good snakes?]).
Dumbledore used Lupin as an excuse to build the Shrieking Shack so he could write it off as a school expense and then after Remus graduated Dumbledore was going to renovate it into a nice weekend home for himself but he just never found the time
That's the real reason Fudge hates Dumbledore, he used government money to build a house.
I like to imagine Dumbledore watching the stock market for changes in real estate, or sitting down with a mug of hot chocolate to watch HGTV for renovation ideas…. Even him walking around a Home Depot 😂
This is now 100% cannon and nothing will change my mind!
The fact that Sirius communicates with Crookshanks (and even gets him to help), but fails miserably to communicate with everyone else is hilarious
I think it’s precisely the reason that he is used to communicating with animals that he struggles to illuminate the situation in an accurate way.
I looked up sunset times in Scotland by month, and I think it's entirely possible that even though it was "night" it wasn't dark yet when Lupin left the castle. I don't think being indoors would effect the transformation or else Lupin's howling wouldn't have been coming from inside the shack growing up. But I imagine there would have to be no sunlight left, and it takes a long time for it to get dark in Scotland at the end of spring/beginning of summer.
I'm not a Snape apologist. He's still an adult choosing to wallow in his pain and take it out on others/children, but whatever trauma he went through/witnessed at home-his dad, "didn't like anything, much-"stunted him emotionally long before he got to school with the Marauders. So, he's probably operating on a seven-year-old's logic/idea of vengeance here.
1:15:00 In HBP, after Sirius dies, Harry despairs that he never asked Sirius if he played as well as James. I find it really heartbreaking (& probably a reflection of reality) that as readers not just relying on memory of this conversation but with a written record we know that Sirius *did* tell him.
23:20 Snape is there to get revenge on Sirius and Lupin, not to save the kids.
Regarding how mean he is to Hermione, I think Snape feels threatened by how smart Hermione is.
I love this chapter. It was fascinating to see Snape, Lupin, Sirius and Peter slip back to their teenage selves and how they related to each other.
Can you imagine a dementor bringing food to the prisoners? Is there a kitchen full of dementor cooks?
I know, right. "Here's your dinner a jacket potato and a pumpkin pasty. And an after-dinner treat of a dementors kiss... Sorry, no Hershey's kiss...
And also, I can't get the image of the swedish chef from the Muppets wearing a dementor's cloak ordering some very confused house elves around.
The fourth book mentions them burying a deceased inmate so they must have some pretty anthropomorphic abilities and responsibilities, like any other guard. Just imagining them carrying keys and unlocking the cells is weird and creepy.
I think about this often. Who is taking prisoners to the showers, who is doing bed checks, who is filing the prison paperwork? Is there a dementor receptionist, someone had to set up fudges visit, who regulates this stuff? And when fudge says “the dementors are furious” and “I had to visit to see the dementors about this black business…” like does fudge talk to the dementors? Is there a head dementor? A warden? Do the dementors do magic? Who keeps the jail cells locked? Dementors have cold sweaty hands, can they hold keys? Who’s in charge of making keys and the logistics of that???? I think about this often….. 🥴🤦🏼♀️
I was thinking this too, like I just can't imagine the dementors bringing food to the prisoners
A relatively simple explanation for the werewolf transformation could be something like: if the person is aware that there is a full moon, something inside him will get triggered and he will transform into a wolf. This way it makes sense how Lupin would transform indoors and also why he didn't transform that night until he saw the moon, because he was to distracted by Peter showing on the map.
Another, maybe even simpler explanation is that it was just question of timing and it have nothing to do about the moonlight.
Moon needs to reach exact point on the sky (lets say... midnight?) for you to become a werewolf. It just happened to be more dramatic, because they see the moon at the same time.
All werewolf problems solved by a blindfold
Could also be like the Oozaru transformation in Dragon Ball, where you need to be exposed for a period of time to transform
When snape says “give me a reason and I swear I’ll do it” he’s threatening to kill sirius not to wrap him in ropes.
Either way. The sentiment is the same. Give me a reason… and their point was, he did. Sirius surely gave snape tons of reasons to kill him. Especially from snapes point of view…
@@Huff-and-Puff you think snape would’ve been justified in killing Sirius?
@@nathanielburke2770 I think from Snapes point of view, he was a bully as a child, almost killed Snape. Then as an adult he betrayed his best friend, worked for Voldemort, was responsible for 20+ peoples deaths, and had been actively trying to kill Harry for a year. Not to mention that Sirius’s punishment for all these crimes is death, or the dementors kiss. It’s not like Snape wouldn’t have been backed by the ministry and most of the general public. They think Sirius is a killer and trying to kill more, in addition to attempting to bring back the dark lord…. Snape knows all of this and still doesn’t kill him. I think that says a lot about Snapes character. I hate that everyone acts like Sirius is 100% innocent. Even Dumbledore says it “Sirius has not acted like an innocent man…” So do I personally think Snape should have killed Sirius? No. But I do think that if he did, most people, Fudge included would have patted him on the back and gave him an Order of Merlin.
@@Huff-and-Puff By this point in the book Snape has been presented with enough evidence to realise that Sirius can't be guilty of the murder of James, Lily or one of those muggles, Lupin says it himself, He's willing to see an innocent man killed for the sake of a schoolboy grudge. Even later on in the hospital wing he lies to Fudge and continues to try to get Sirius killed. He also tries to get Lupin kissed by the dementors
@@nathanielburke2770you're waffling
The idea that Lupin was attempting to abandon his family when he tried to join the trio just never made any sense to me. Like when Harry turns him down it's not like he just goes to sit at with his pregnant wife, he's still out doing life threatening missions for the order, so literally what difference does it make? That scene will never not be weird to me
I think Snape was just caught off guard he would never expected any of them to attack him especially all three
The reason to switch secret keepers is not because Sirius might give them up, but because upon his death the secret would be weakened. When Dumbledore dies this is explained, but I imagine Sirius would refuse to tell the secret and they would kill him, then you would have about 3-5 secret keepers. If you switch and Wormtail doesn’t suck butts and Serius is killed, no harm to the secret.
When Dumbledore dies, they all become secret keeper because dumbledore told each of them the secret. If they’d made Sirius secret keeper and if he hadn’t told anyone the secret would’ve died with him, right?
@@laurarenders6767 Yes, I think so, but the Potters couldn't have survived indefinitely without supplies, which would be delivered by those who knew the secret. We know that at least Pettigrew visited them, but there were likely a small handful of others.
There would’ve been a few people, lily and James themselves, and probably Peter, Remus, and Dumbledore. Maybe more but that’s what I’d expect at minimum. And that would technically dilute the power of the charm.
YES! It took me a while to get this but it's bc serious had no plans to go into hiding. He wants in the field. But if he's killed even on accident it's over.
@@laurarenders6767he does tell though. Peter tells serious and Dumbeldore and bathida the chatty neighbor
I feel like "________ is a kid. Do better." applies to every interaction between Snape and any of the child characters in the series.
I won’t defend Snape, but I kind of understand him. To him, everything that has gone wrong in his life comes down to the events of “Snape’s worst memory”: James and Sirius humiliated him, he snapped back at Lily and that destroyed their friendship. Everything went downhill from there. It is partly his own fault, but doesn’t everyone prefer blaming others before blaming themselves?
Abusers will use your reaction to their abuse as justification. Yes Snape insulted her, but you cannot say he was not in an agitated state, pushed to the breaking point by the marauders' abuse. Snape is a cautionary tale about allowing abuse to control you and falling into the cycle of abuse. He does make terrible choices as an adult and should be held accountable. This does not mean the marauders, and James and Sirius in particular, are not abusers
Nah,they were justified. Snape was going around saying slurs and openly stating he wanted to become a Death Eater (a magical Nazi) during a time when Voldemort was taking over the country. He deserved what he got @@PcCAvioN
Snape also had a pretty terrible attitude about everything in general, and he surely knew Lily wouldn't be down with what he was getting involved with even before the memory, but yes, in Snapes eyes, he's the victim
@kaillah It's been a hot second since I read the books so I could be wrong but I don't remember them bullying him prior to him becoming a magical racist. I know they were mocking Slytherin on the train but that was probably because it's the house Voldemort hailed from and he is currently terrorising the magical world. And I certainly don't remember them bullying anyone else. Also,he wasn't stripped naked. It's also not just "stupid shit" he's saying. He's going around with other pure blood fanatics and not for nothing,he and the others DO become death eaters,he even becomes Voldemort's right hand man. But no,they should have just let him get away with being a bigot? It annoys me that people think they can get away with being terrible by hiding behind rules and this notion that violence is this terrible evil. Some people deserve a good wholloping. Trust me,I was bullied,I'd empathise with Snape but he was actually being the bully to a whole race of people,punching down. James and the others were serving justice to him
@kaillah Adding onto that last point of him being indoctrinated by the Death Eaters
The biggest example being that when he is sorted he goes and sits next to Lucius who is a Prefect at that point.
Edit to add:
In the Snape’s Worst Memory scene what James and Sirius do is completely unprovoked. Snape is minding his own business and gets attacked after he gets up to leave. He isn’t doing anything except “existing” (James’ words).
And then what James says to Lily
“Go out with me and I’ll never bother ol Snivily again”
Like why did she even marry this guy fr…
Ollivander does say that a wand MIGHT change its allegiance if taken by force. He specifically does not say that this happens in every case. The wand still chooses the wizard.
Just because Peter was the secret keeper, that doesn't mean that Sirius couldn't "find" their house. The secret keeper can tell others where it is. Just take a look at how they handled Grimald Place.
Exactly. There's hard evidence in that one letter that people (particularly Sirius) don't visit very often/at all, but they certainly could know. And unless Peter is the only one doing their grocery shopping, they probably have someone local (like Bathilda Bagshot, maybe) in on it.
Part 2 of some of my favorite Ron moments. Again, Ron stands up on his broken leg. And then practically grows, "Chain him to me!" The rage of betrayal in that moment. In hindsight, horrendous idea to have Ron, who's still injured, and Lupin, with potential change on the horizon, do it. But still, badass moment for Ron!
1:02:47 Sirius specifically using the phrase “biggest bully on the playground” seems to him self admitting to being a bully during school. Maybe because he just saw how much Snape still hates him after such a long time.
On the wolfsbane potion, understood it to be a recent invention, the tiny population size of the wizarding world would mean trial periods for new medical treatments would pretty much not exist individual patients would have individual doctors prescribing and modifying their treatment as needed, Snape is one of the world's best potion makers at this time, just like real medicine it's not perfect nor are the professionals completely knowledgeable, go through a few real life medical situations and you will know they are doing their best but it is FAR from flawless
It is also very expensive and difficult to brew. Even if someone was passionate about researching and improving it they would have to be very rich to do so. Unfortunately, I don't think werewolves would be able to do it themselves since most of them live in poverty.
On Lupin and the full moon: I think that thanks to the wolfsbane potion, Lupin can run about in a cloudy night. However, this doesn’t prevent the transformation in direct moonlight. And since he didn’t take the potion that night, he transforms into a werewolf in direct moonlight rather than into a regular wolf.
Without the potion, he would transfer into a werewolf whenever there is full moon, most likely +/- 1 day, regardless of weather.
I have been thinking about this one for a while, too.
Consider the following: dynamic tension.
Once you are infected, there are factors that tend toward your wolfishness, and factors that tend toward your humanness.
Greyback promotes the wolfish factors, and Remus promotes the humanizing ones.
FULLNESS OF MOON
The moon, earth, and sun being constantly in motion relative to each other, "actual fullness" is a instantaneous event. You could consider the moon to be "full," however, a little before and a little after the event. Perhaps we could call the moon full when, say, 97% or more of the moon's face is illuminated from our point of view in a location on the surface of the earth. Anytime the moon is "full" (97%) or more it increases the wolfish factors. Darkness in your location may also increase it. And, frankly, having the moon's light touch your skin may also increase it. Emotional states, attachment to your humanity, and other things (having a therapeutic dose of wolfsbane potion, for example) could be humanizing factors that oppose the wolfish ones, thus creating tension. That tension is dynamic because the triggers are always changing.
So Remus is fighting to hold himself together when all this stuff is going down. And the moon coming out from behind the clouds is just the straw that broke the werewolf's back.
Yes, I´m thinking that must be it.
The hour of the night could be a contriputing factor as well. When Lupin walks to the Shrieking Shak it is still just after sun set which may not yet count as night (eventhough that happns pretty late in summer). This could explain why a cloud is enough to keep him from changing at that point. When they get outside again several hours must have past so it is finally night time and the moonlight more potent but ti could still take a while to take effect unless the person is exposed directly to the light.
Like they mentioned, the potion doesn't ever stop you from transforming though. It just lets you keep your mind.
I was going to say something pretty much like that. It seems the best explanation. Wolvesbane potion is not a cure, just a symptomatic suppression. Regular use reduces the condition somewhat, so you might not transform if you're not in direct moonlight.
I do agree that Lupin should've fought Fenrir Greyback. Here's a scenario: in the Battle of Hogwarts Harry is running down a hallway looking for the diadem. Fenrir stops him and growls: "I don't know or care what the Dark Lord has planned for you but I'm going to kill you myself." Lupin calmly walks around the corner and goes: "If you want him you got to through me. Run Harry." And as Harry is running away you hear spells going off.
47:37 About this I have a theory
So I think at this point Lilly James and Sirius knew that there was a spy in the order so
If sirius is the secret keeper and he dies then people who knew about their home at Godric Hollow would become the secret keeper
As they know that there is a spy between them so they made wormtail their secret keeper and let everyone believe that sirius is the secret keeper so even if sirius is killed Potters will be safe
Didn't Lupin read the newspaper the day the Weasley's won the lottery? I mean if he did, why didn't he just as easily recognize Peter?
Because he thinks he’s dead. If you were to see someone you could recognize anywhere, but they’re dead, would you think they’re actually alive, or that it’s just someone who looks similar
He wasn't obsessing over PP being alive nearly as hard as Sirius was.
Remember, Peter was in rat form for 12 years, unable to transform back. As a rat’s lifespan is about 4 years, his rat body was barely clinging to life. This had to have some effect on Peter’s physical form as well. To live so long as a rat had to impact Peter’s human form when he was transformed back. Love your podcasts! Thank you for all your hard work! When are you coming to the Midwest?!
It's so nice that also on this occasion Lupin is in the Shrieking Shack on the night he transforms. Doesn't matter for the story that much but is a nice detail imo
I love your analysis videos; they are so much fun! I want to point out, though, that the two of you completely glossed over the sentence where Sirius threatens Peter if Peter tries to transform back into a rat. In my opinion, this indicates that Peter DOESN'T need a wand to transform.
As does the fact that, in the book, he never uses the wand on himself.
I honestly think it'd made more sense to have been daytime when they all entered the Shack, but by the time they made it back out, night have fallen. At least that'd explain how Lupin was able to walk around with no worries of transforming.
Or the moon had risen while they were inside the shack. Most werewolf lore has the transformation from moon rise to moon set regardless of the time of night or day even.
It has to be nighttime though because it is almost midnight when Dumbledore tells them to go back three hours in time. So that would mean they go back to 9 pm
It mentions that it was already night before they enter the tunnel. Buckbeak is executed at sundown. The sun sets as they leave and darkness falls as they are struggling to manage Scabbers. The moon, however, had not necessarily risen, yet.
I always assumed that the moon hadn't risen yet when he went into the shack.
@@jaredwonnacott9732 Scanners XD
Autocorrect is fun sometimes
My take on the Lupin vs clouds vs full moon thing: He's been taking the wolfsbane potion every night for the last week, right? So, therefore, he isn’t suffering the full effects of lycanthopy. In school, he would have turned into a werewolf just by it being the correct night, but now, with most of the wolfsbane potion (just missing tonight's dose), it took the full power of direct moonlight to trigger the transformation.
Re: reviving Snape
Here’s the thing though.
They have Peter bound and gagged. So why not revive Snape?
Hold onto his wand for the moment and make sure he can see Peter.
1:05:39 Sirius in Azkaban is like Riley at the end of Inside Out. All his Core Memories were tainted by Sadness, so his sense of Self was protected from the Dementors.
Was the shrieking shack built in '71? Or was just the whomping willow planted then to cover the passage to it? I've always been under the impression that the shack had been there for a much longer time, and it was just put to use once Lupin arrived at school.
Lupin specifically says “this house, the tunnel that leads to it and the womping wiillow were built for my use” those might not be the exact words but he definitely says the shrieking shack was built for him.
On the topic of werewolves and the full moon: in Scotland in June, the sun sets closer to 10:30 or 11, because it’s so far north. Buckbeaks appeal is at 9pm if I remember correctly. So if they spent 1.5-2h getting pulled under the tree and talking, it’s not until they get back to the grounds that the moon would be high enough in the sky for a transformation. My understanding is that it is purely coincidence that the clouds parted at that instant.
How sad that Harry forgets that Sirius just told him that he flies as well as James. After Sirius dies, Harry grieves that he was never told if he was as good as James. I don't know if this is an author error or author torture torment that we readers can't tell Harry that he was told how good he flew. If only Luna had known, she'd have reminded him.
When it comes to Peter and the marauders in school i cant see a realistic situation in the 60’s and 70’s where the most popular group of guys that are notorious for their intelligence, sporting talent, pranks, and bullying would actually be friends with a person like Peter. Hes the exact type of person that they would’ve bullied irl
Sunday is the best day because Griffin Door!
6:46 Slash is a British term for a pp break 😂
I had always assumed that one of the main reasons why Snape was so agitated to Sirius and Remus (aside from the obvious abuse he suffered as a child) was that he still believes Sirius to have essentially caused the death of Lily. Though I don't know if we know if he knew about Sirius specifically being the secret keeper afterwards, Dumbledore does say that they put their faith in the wrong person. So I can see Snape thinking about how he had risked himself to turn spy for Dumbledore for her safety, which Sirius had betrayed, and becoming as angry and bitter as he is in this chapter.
I think what Sirius was trying to prevent was the creation of more secret keepers upon his death. As we know from Dumbledore’s death the death of a secret keeper causes all who they shared the secret with to become secret keepers. So by killing Sirius Voldemort would multiply the people he could potentially get the info from. But by having it be in Peter even upon Sirius’s death the secret would still only be with one
I know it's an episode later but I just wanted to say I thank and appreciate that you guys did the last chapter with the audience and a separate video that wasn't nearly as interruptive so thank you very much
Ive always assumed the marauders all knew the secret, and were able to visit. Its just that peter was the keeper instead of Sirius
My head cannon is they just found a house and moved the entire thing, furnishings and all, to the outskirts of hogsmead, not trying to make a big deal about it. Then once the villagers started noticing the howling Dumbledore told people it was severely haunted, and it was placed there for safe keeping.
33:00 I've always interpreted it that the Elder Wand is the only one that changes allegiance on a dime - like it would take more than just being disarmed for any normal wands to change masters. Also, something I've just noticed, and correct me if I'm wrong, but are Harry and Ron the only confirmed cases we have in the series of non-Elder Wands changing their allegiance? Because they both physically take Peter and Draco's wands from them, so maybe the rule is that you have to physically overpower a wand's former master, because if it worked through Expelliarmus, then wand allegiance would be a complete free-for-all.
There are characteristics of wand woods and cores being easier or harder to win over. Snape's is (according to the fan wiki, I can't find any more solid source) ebony and dragon heartstring/phoenix feather/kelpie triple core. The official page says ebony wands choose stubborn/loyal owners, so the wands themselves are also probably hard to sway, and the wiki says the core makes it "temperamental" for other users, even Voldy.
It's interesting Peter for all his faults is brave enough to say Voldemorts name at least once 57:49
As I read the Shrieking Shack trilogy of chapters, I always felt as though they were inside of the Shack for an hour.
Lupin sees 2 harry and 2 Hermione on the map. Realizing the time turners are in use he rushes from his office to handle the situation. Leaving map open and not taking his potion.
He wouldn't see two of them because they're in different places. They aren't in the same room.
In my mind, dementors feeding on happiness is like lice being attracted to a clean scalp. Its the well-kept nature that attacts them, but makes you experience the opposite
What if Snape (the Half-Blood Prince himself) has been modifying the wolfsbane potion to improve its efficacy. Maybe he has developed an improved version that allows something as seemingly trivial as cloud cover to prevent Lupin from turning into a wolf.
That does sound like something Severus "let me scribble passive-aggressive corrections over every inch of free space in my potions book" Snape would do.
The animagus form is the only reason why lupin doesn't turn them into Werewolves which is interesting
Small thing: Peter is cunning, yes, and has a talent for quick thinking. However, I would argue that he was also a very skilled wizard. He was overshadowed by his more powerful friends (plus Lily, who probably cast the Fidelius Charm), but Peter wàs still exceptional. If you consider all the magic that he does, you realise why Voldemort made him a Death Eater. It's probably why Peter joined Voldemort in the first place.
Yeah, really. Just imagine Peter's time at Hogwarts, working hard, but never catching up to the others. Nobody acknowledges his talent. Then one day during the war, Peter casts a particularly difficult bit of magic to save someone. Voldemort is impressed, and upon finding Peter, he commends him. It's the first time that anyone has recognised him as a skilled wizard, and it sets him on the dark path.
I appreciate that both of you voice what is likely going on in the heads of the characters other than Harry. What you talk about for Lupin and Ron in particular lends some interesting insights. Ben, I really like your take on Lupin knowing Snape is there.
We learn a lot about the Fidelius Charm in Deathly Hallows. Dumbledore was the original Secret Keeper for the Order's Headquarters; when he dies, everyone else becomes the Secret Keeper for HQ. We learn this after the Ministry of Magic/Slytherin's Locket raid, when Hermione accidentally takes Yaxley into the protected area and thus passes on the secret of the location to the Death Eaters.
A mole was suspected within the Order of the Phoenix. If Sirius would have died for Lily and James, everyone else in the Order of the Phoenix would become Secret Keeper in turn, which includes the mole, and Voldemort would know straight away. Sirius feared this and convinced James and Lily to make someone else the Secret Keeper, to provide them with another layer of protection in case Sirius himself was haunted for the secret. The choice became Peter, because Peter was a trusted friend as part of the Marauders, and a highly unlikely candidate to become the Secret Keeper (with Sirius being the obvious candidate; Sirius suspecting Lupin).
I always felt that peter chose to stay a rat, being "chained" by his fear of the remaining death eaters. And that they (Sirius and Remus) use magic to bind him in human form after forcing his transformation, that being why he needs a wand.
Maybe if Lupin was there, he would’ve had the idea to get the locket off Umbrage when she was outside of the ministry. It would’ve saved a lot of trouble having a break in, and using poly juice potion as a solution yet again.
Maybe it is because Hermione reminds Snape of Lily the reason why he is mean to her: because she is the Lily he’ll never have.
You guys have no idea how much you made my day with almost 2 hours of this banger! Night shift is gonna be so much better now
Since Lupin’s lycanthropy is supposed to be an allegory for certain stigmatised conditions, I actually think it would make sense if his condition was more manageable than people realised and that a lot of the fear surrounding it is due to people’s ignorance or misunderstanding. It makes Lupin’s story even more tragic IMO if people are literally ostracising him and thinking he is this terrible monster who can’t be around anyone at any time, when really it only affects him one night a month if he’s physically outside under a full moon that isn’t obscured by clouds. I’d never really thought much into how the werewolf thing actually worked, but I think your interpretation actually makes me appreciate the parallel more.
Even if Sirius isn't the secret KEEPER for James and Lily's house, he can still know where it is. Peter could have told him, as he must have told Bathilda Bagshot and (presumably) Dumbledore and Hagrid.
Yes, but the charm means that only Peter can pass on the information. Anyone he gives the address to would not be able to pass it on to others, no matter what.
@@Cailus3542 Sure, but clearly Dumbledore, Hagrid, Bathilda, and Sirius at the very least knew where the house was. So Peter must have told them. And there's actually a bit of murkiness in how the fidelius charm works. Why did the charm break when Lily and James died? Peter (the secret keeper) was still alive. Harry was still alive. Unless there's some mechanism that allows the secret keeper to break the charm (which we never hear about), Hermione shouldn't be able to see the house in book 7. The charm should still be active as long as Peter and Harry are still alive, presumably.
@@PalmelaHanderson We've seen that written notes by the Secret Keeper are sufficient, thereby protecting their identity. Beyond that, Harry speculated that the failed curse and Voldemort's "death" caused so much damage to the house that the charm was broken. The charm is placed on the building, not people.
Snape doesn't like Hermione clearly because she is what he calls a 'mudblood'. Yeah, she might be someone who could remind him of Lilly, but Lilly herself tells him that he calls everyone else who is 'like her a mudblood'. Snape is not a good guy... Snape just happens to work for the good team because of his love (or insane affection) for a single person. Don't forget that he was willing to throw James and Harry under the bus as long as he could get Lilly for herself (i'm wondering how that relationship would have gone... maybe don't think about it) and he only reluctantly agrees to Dumbledore's plan of protecting them all (which the latter was doing anyway).
Snape doesn't have a lot of redeeming qualities and his work against Voldemort could easily be interpreted as revenge (although he seems to at least believe himself genuinely that he does it out of love).
Severus no longer thinks that way as an adult.
The Deathly Hallows:
“Headmaster! They are camping in the Forest of Dean! The Mudblood--”
“Do not use that word!”
“--the Granger girl, then, mentioned the place as she opened her bag and I heard her!”
He truly believes in the cause and works for the order because he genuinely wants to protect people. He even tries to protect Lupin and checks on Sirius immediately after Harry tells him he is in danger. He is also very distressed when Dumbledore forces him to kill him.
The Deathly Hallows:
“Don’t be shocked, Severus. How many men and women have you watched die?”
“Lately, only those whom I could not save,” said Snape.
The Deathly Hallows:
He was accompanied by other hooded Death Eaters, and ahead were Lupin and a Harry who was really George. ... A Death Eater moved ahead of Snape and raised his wand, pointing it directly at Lupin’s back - “ Sectumsempa” shouted Snape.
But the spell, intended for the Death Eater’s wand hand, missed and hit George instead.
He started with selfish reasons but he completely switched to the good side once he realized his mistakes. Something similar happened to Dumbledore, only after his brother and sister were made target did he realize he was wrong and started fighting Grindelwald. Up until then he was not a good person.
The Deathly Hallows:
Grindelwald. You cannot imagine how his ideas caught me,
Harry, inflamed me. Muggles forced into subservience. We wizards
triumphant. Grindelwald and I, the glorious young leaders of the
revolution.
...
He vanished, with his plans for seizing power, and his schemes for
Muggle torture, and his dreams of the Deathly Hallows, dreams
in which I had encouraged him and helped him. He ran, while I
was left to bury my sister, and learn to live with my guilt and my
terrible grief, the price of my shame.
Severus is still a massive bullying prick tho.
Lupin stays at GP while the trio breaks into MoM. When they appear back with Yaxley (?) , Lupin is waiting and AK's Yaxley. Earningthe trust of the trio. "I knew you were planning something and wanted to be ready"
I always assumed that Siris didn’t tell anyone about Peter being secret keeper it was the only way to convince Peter to do it. Like Peter wanted it a secret to be a backup plan in case anything happens and told Siris that he was too afraid to do it if everyone else knew about it.
43:08 I assume that certain animals like cats and dogs are able to communicate ideas to each other to an extent.
It’s just usually insults.
Especially since I’ve watched the movies first, the Lupin transforming only later felt like it was maybe trying to infer that he transforms at a particular time in the middle of the night of a full moon and just because of movie convenience, the time came to fruition right when they came outside and was signified with the clouds parting. It felt like an extra ticking clock for them to get Peter back to the castle before he transforms for the night. (At least when TRYING to have a better fitting explanation in my head lol)
You guys always manage to make the deaths of the marauders more traumatic and sad whenever you theorize 😭
The more y'all talk, the more I think Animagus is like Animorphs without the time limit: Human is your base form, and it can get hurt, but any damages taken in animal form is healed when going back to being human.
In Animorphs the human wounds also heal on morph, not counting haircuts and piercings (and, if the fan community is to be believed, probably circumcision, as Jake's family is at least nominally Jewish). But yeah, an animagus's human wounds do seem to stay and transfer to animal form.
Wouldn't Snape bring the wolfsbane potion with him? Regardless of whether he thinks Lupin is guilty, no one wants to encounter a werewolf at the full moon!
The Fidelius charm secret keeper passes to everyone who knows the secret if the original is killed. Sirius convincing them to make Peter the secret keeper is safer because even though Sirius wouldn't expose the Potters, he knows he'll be the first person to be killed which drastically weakens the protection and increases the odds that the spy (as they suspect there is one in The Order) would be able to then tell Voldemort. Peter's not an obvious target and is cowardly and adept at getting out of trouble/hiding so he was the best choice. This also fits with why they wouldn't use Dumbledore because he's the most likely to go head to head with Voldemort and may die...and he's pretty old so could just die anyway.
There are a lot of possible explanations for why Lupin doesn't transform until the moonlight hits him.
1. The full moon needs to be fully risen into the sky, and it's a coincidence that it happens right as they exit the tunnel.
OR 2. The moonlight speeds up the process and makes it immediate, but he would have transformed anyways, just later, if he stayed inside.
OR 3. There is a psychological component to the transformation, and knowing that theres a full moon is a necessary part of transforming. So normally, lupin would just keep track and know its a full moon, but this time his mind was elsewhere until the moon was revealed, causing him to remember and transform.
Anyways, while i agree it just comes down to plot convenience, i do think there are reasonable explanations for him transforming when he does.
I think the way Peter could have gotten wind that Sirius was going to break into the common room. Was perhaps he saw Crookshanks steal the passwords from Neville's bedside while he was hidden in the room.
Mobili expresses general movement (e.g. mobile). Levi suggests lifting up (e.g. levitate). Neither prefix suggests a precise motion. The fact that levicorpus turns you upside down, suspending you by your ankle is a "bonus" that Snape added.
Headcanon is that the wolfsbane potion, being new, hasn't been studied for long-term effects and having taken so much of it for so many months, the full moon is becoming less and less powerful, so at this point cloud cover can prevent it - at least, for a time.
I Love You guys 😆 these videos are the highlight of my week every week 😀
and my soul dumbledore? my soul? in the alan rickman voice always just crazks me up
I love when they impersonate Jim Dale's character voices. J's "Jim Dale Luna Voice" is hysterical.
Jim Dale reading “That’s Right” is a such a great voice acting performance. It made me feel spooked to know shape was there.
If you've never heard Stephen Fry's rendition, I highly recommend it. His Lockhart is amazing.
1:20:53 "I don't care how big the room is - I cast fireball!"
I think the line about a crazed look in Snape's eyes/ degranged look is more him being upset and wanting revenge, wanting to keep the blame on the Marauders (Sirius) for Lily's death - they didnt protect her one of them betrayed her where abouts, blame someone else besides himself. All his pain from that night came back to him, and he only wanted to hurt someone. He did not want to listen to reason.
1:06:40
I kinda just thought Remus was being sarcastic
Sparing Wormtail. The first of two decisions that must haunt Harry for the rest of his life (the other being coming up with the idea for both him and Cedric to take the tri-wizard cup at the same time).
42:18 that is the funniest set of sentences in the entire series without any context, actually that's hilarious even with context
To the wand allegiance thing, I feel like it's easily forgotten that wands have different levels of loyalty. While wand allegiances are a big plot point in DH, it doesn't seem to be a common worry in the wizarding world. The wandlore says that unicorn hair wands are really loyal and don't work well as hand me downs for that reason. So while it is possible to win a wand, not all wands are as easily won. The Elder Wand is partially built on the concept of it being very disloyal and ready to work with a new wielder really easily. We don't know about Draco's wand, but I can totally see a situation where Draco's internal turmoil during the last 2 books may have caused him and his wand to grow apart or something that made the wand willing to switch to Harry so easily.
I was thinking some similar thoughts.
It is said multiple times in the books that “the wand chooses the wizard”
That combined with the different temperaments of different cores of said wands-
Just because you may beat your opponent doesn’t mean you win over the wand.
Think of dueling club… or even any class that has practical spells that they practice on one another.. wands of the practicing witch and wizards seem to know that it is just practice - they don’t change allegiance when their masters are disarmed.
I think the brothers just agreed to forget that the changing of allegiances is exclusively an Elder Wand thing
@@IsaacMokChuangXing it's not exclusively an Elder Wand thing. Draco's wand does it as well.
Not to be a Snape defender here, but when he says “well drag the werewolf” he’s talking about when Lupin transforms upon leaving the shack. Obvi they can’t have a werewolf out and about and clearly it wouldn’t just walk up with them so it has to be dragged.
He could just leave him in the hut which would be saver for all of them.
Book 4 is my favorite, can't wait for you guys to go through it! I'm reading through Book 5 rn and I forget how long they're getting lol
The full moon didn’t rise over Scotland till 12:45 am in July of 1993 that might be why it took so long for lupin to transform that night. The moon beams would not have come over the horizon till around 11:30 that night.
@kaillah I looked up the moon rise in Scotland for 1993 and it shows every phase every month on a chart.
@kaillah what made me think of it was how the moon is right now here in Mississippi, we have a full moon in 3 days and I could see it yesterday before the sun went down and when I got up at 3 am it had already set.
@kaillah I do appreciate your compliment I’m not trying to down play you giving me props on looking it up.
McGonagall doesn't need a wand to transform into a cat.
Yes but they forced Peter out of animagus form, with a wand, so he may have needed the same or just another one wand
@@maybenextime5782 I always read it as Peter was just stealing a wand to use later, not something he needed to transform.
Maybe there was some kind of anti-Animagi spell he needed to break before he could escape?
McGonagall is a stronger witch then Peter is a wizard. Peter has to hide in others shadows.
@@cptjeff1 In the book (it'll come up next chapter, maybe they'll finally actually read the paragraph) he uses the wand to attack Ron and Crookshanks before getting disarmed, *then* he transforms. I'm sure he absolutely intended to use it later as well and clearly did not need it to transform.
My interpretation of the wand changing owners is more dependent on the wand itself being fickle in some way. The elder wand has a trail of blood so it is accustomed to changing owners through conquest so it readily changes allegiance. The only other specific example of changed ownership we know of is Draco's wand, but given its unicorn core and Draco's use of dark magic it may have felt betrayed by its owner so it was no longer as loyal to him.
It's also important that Draco and Dumbledore never reclaim their wands after being disarmed. Most times somebody is disarmed, they are able to retrieve their wand and its allegiance never changes.
Cool idea for prophecies being weapons: they could be a bit like that golden apple of Eden in AC series, where if you’d unleash the prophecy on someone who is not supposed to hear it they go mad or something
Thanks For this! Love this podcast ❤❤❤
46:53 Of course Sirius can visit the Potters, if he couldn’t and Peter could it would be a terrible secret keeper diversion. I think Peter immediately told Sirius, then Peter wrote down the address on pieces of paper for Sirius to show others (like Mody shows Harry the note from Dumbledore), otherwise everyone would know they switched. Let’s remember that Dumbledore is unaware of the switch, yet he visited James to borrow the cloak, so they had to trick him somehow.
Also, in Lily’s letter she mentions that Sirius couldn’t be there for Harry’s birthday because the order had to come first, in other words Sirius was planning to attend, which means he must know the secret.
1:43:34 i think there should have been a duel between the death eaters and the trio in the three broomsticks before the real battle. it feels like a a great setting and just a good narrative element
17:55
Fact that Lupin says "you don't know everything" can imply that Snape wasn't there the entire time they had that long retelling about the past.
Otherwise Lupin won't have said "you don't know everything" - meaning Snape arrived somewhere at that point near the ending of the retelling
45:25 I understand Sirius' logic to switch secret keepers as this:
1. Sirius himself was definitely going to die, since most people will deduce that he is the secret keeper given that he is James' bsst friend and all
2. If Sirius dies, someone else needs to be the secret keeper, otherwise there's no secret. In my understanding the fidelius charm doesn't work without a secret keeper. When dumbledore, whoever knew the secret (Grimmauld Place) automatically became the secret keeper. So no secret keeper = no fidelius charm
3. James and Lily would have to find another secret keeper when Sirius died, so he suggested the most unlikely choice - peter pettigrew, who is also a rat, so the one who can most easily hide or run away.
Lupin trying to join them doesnt help in many cases, he still turns into a wolf… and id assume he wouldnt have any potion available to him while he’s camping. Its just another thing to worry about
James and Snape are the Jim and Dwight of the wizarding world
I'd love to see a "What if Sirius Black actually was guilty?"
Imagine the changes! Like, at first you think nothing changes, but then things get interesting VERY quickly.
Would he survive Azkaban? Would he be able to break out? With Peter dead, valiantly dieing for Lily and James, would Black be the one bringing Voldemort back? Would he be a death eater? And for what reason? What would have made him betray his friends? Maybe them shunning him after truly killing Snape when they were in school? How about the ministery of magic? Would Harry still be lured to the department of mysteries?
There are MANY thgs that hinge upon Sirius being who he is and doing what he does. So it would mane a great "What if..." I think.
Hearing you think out how things might have been different had Lupin joined them was great! The thought process as good, if not better, than the result. Instead of doing just a finished "What if" video, try doing one where you think things through. You probably wouldn't be able to think the whole issue through in one sitting, so people could respond and you could do another session and so on until you had it worked out, then do the finished theory video.
First time I'm actually watching this in a while, J's mustache is going wild
my takeaway from Snape being so deranged was not only is he facing his bullies, but as far as he was concerned in that moment, he was face to face with the man who was responsible for Lilly's death =s
I always thought of it as lupine had been taking the wolfsbane potion for the past week leading up to the full moon which is why the transformation was delayed and him not taking it on the night of was just enough to allow the transformation