I'm guessing that Vor didn't know about the Tenno controlling the Warframes because Operators weren't a thing back then and Warframe and Tenno were thought to be one and the same thing.
As far as I know, everyone knows that Tenno and Warframes are different things, the question is where a warframe ends and where a Tenno begins. This is more or less written in the "warframes" codex.
To my understanding most of the people had no idea that there is more to the Tenno than the Warframes, untill after the War Within Tenno started to actually appear in the flesh. So it would make sense for many characters to attribute the actions of a Tenno to their Warframe.
@@TheDsIEGE I suppose the existance of Operators was confidential to the highest ranks of the Orokins, given that it took Ballas' treason to point the Sentients to them.
Aren't the leverians supposed to come from historians and first person accounts? He brings this up in some instances like how the historians was in confusion over what poses the people who Atlas petrified were in. As well as in Ash story when he mentions how Pilio memoirs brought us this story. So in this case the people who we get these stories from wouldn't know about the operators and as such wouldn't mention them. Also as far as I'm aware of the leverians aren't quest locked so a new player could just walk into leverians if they wanted too having Drusus spoiled the second dream wouldn't be good for new players. So unless they quest locked it so only players pass second dream can enter i don't think he will ever specify whether it's the Warframe or operator acting in theses stories.
@@TheDsIEGE yeah I agree hopefully they'll redo it soon or at least before Duvari. I really love your idea of Drusus being a operator though. I always just considered him to be a archmedian turned celphaon like Suda.
Not only that, but he makes sure to say that it is one of those warframes, meaning "this Gauss did the thing, that Ash did the other thing," not all Ashes and Gausses did it, just that specific one; besides, Siege nails the point but misses it completely, by an outsiders perspective, the Warframe are the people, so if I was looking at a Nova right now, I'd refer to her as Nova and not as the Tenno behind her. Those particular stories were chosen because they are the most interesting of them all, simple as that.
I just figured that the stories in the Leverians took place while the operators were in the long dream. And because there wasn't necessarily a face to go with the frame, they just used the frames name itself to recount the story
exactly, these warframes are most likely operators still sleeping, while being in control of the Lotus/ Natah at teh time, who was conversly under the control of the Orokin before she betrayed them .
You're the only channel I've seen so far that still discusses about the lore of warframe since the lore God, StallordD, has entered hibernation for god knows how long it's been.
remember Harrow? maybe the tenno got stuck inside Protea as well. Deadlock Protocol says she created a temporal prison, so time hasn't passed in there since the time of the orokin.
@@ironbatman9689 what? No. In Chains of Harrow, we're told how Rell (the operator of Harrow) bound himself into the warframe to survive this long and hold off the man in the wall because he wasn't placed in the reservoir along with the other tenno. The quest is to destroy Harrow so Rell can finally rest. Which let's the man in the wall loose, as the encounters after the quest show.
@@vinolfernando the thing is, How much of this is real ? Lotus itself didin't knew who rell was at all. He could have been the man in the wall all along from what we know. But the most possible guess is that at some point Rell died, and the man in the wall took control over it's warframe or it's curses, it's really hard to tell
There's 2 trains of thought here. 1: There was a tenno controlling the Warframe at the time of the "events described" in the Levarian. 2: These were the "original" attempts that Ballas described that were a "miserable failure" before they used Transference to reign in an otherwise savage Warframe. One seems more likely but Two seems like a distinct possibility.
I don't feel 2 is totally possible though, as the Warframes in the Levarian are very clearly acting with a specific mission during their stories or it is during the full blown rebellion of the Tenno. Plus remember that the Warframes were utterly wild and uncontrollable, with the Orokin trying to reign them in through torture (which would only make it worse of course). It was only after the Tenno "Took away their pain" that the warframes were controllable, and even then only by the Tenno themselves. The way the timeline is set up, the Tenno would have to be piloting the Warframes for the controlled and intelligent control we see from them. That said, I feel like there is a....3rd option, though it is an extension of the 1st you laid out. When the tenno occupy a Warframe, in taking away the pain that the Warframe itself suffered, the true personality (though not necissarily memories) of the original person are uncovered. The Tenno, since they are already united with the Warframe, basically inherit those previously suppressed individual traits, thus allowing that Warframe to "live" as they once were again in their new bodies. Of course the tenno is largely in control, but the personality of the original is then influencing how they'd act, sometimes overriding the natural loyalty the Tenno were conditioned to have. Ash acts like an experienced but highly honorbound assassin who secretly seeks the downfall of his own order, Nova acts in an incredibly intelligent manner the Tenno themselves don't seem capable of, and Atlas acts on instinct to complete his mission through sheer iron will. In other words, what happens when you combine an impressionable child with a fully formed personality? The child takes on that temporary intrusion as themselves, children after all are just adults with zero experience coloring their personhood. Transpose the fully realized personality of an adult onto them, and they are just going to adopt it to fill in the blanks that they are.
@@clayxros576 yes I highly agree, it would make sense the custom animations. That each warframe have, the traits of the warframes still phase through while the Tenno is in control. If it doesn't, then the Tenno would just stand still like they normally would without a warframe body.
Month late, but even the question of if the infested orokin were true warframes. Primes have been described as built from parts, as is titania outright in her quest. Now its possible its a bit like how we re-stitch umbra together from the blown up bits with a bit of kuva-glue and metal+technocyte mache, id still bet on subject 9/umbra excal and co to be the only actual frames that were made from infesting people instead of built from inanimate bits. As such combined with the actions of the frames in question, id guess tis tenno acting mid/just after the fall of the orokin.
Ok, i think DE wanted to keep the tenno ambigious so they can have more focus on the frame themselves. Mabye the unnamed tenno controlling the frames are us the playerbase and kept ambigious
So. Here's what I think. First, I'd rule out the possibility of Drusus being a tenno for now: he refers to outside sources during at least Ash's and Nova's leverian entries. Next, I like your Idea of the Umbra-Edition frames, but I think there was also a tenno at the helm. And maybe that'd explain Ash's reluctance to use Bladestorm, and Nova's to-ways portals. Finally, Maybe Drusus isn't a tenno. But nothing indicates he doesn't have a tenno ship. As such, void trading could be an option. so my speculations until proven wrong are: - Drusus is no tenno, but may have a tenno ship; - Umbra soldiers, but with tenno pilots/copilots; - leverian cards are transferred either trough trade, or as physical ideas, like Paracesis's blueprints. If we want more info, maybe we could ask Nora Night. She knows of the dream, maybe she'll have a lead at least.
Alternatively: Existing quests explain it, all events happen during to post fall of orokin (when potato kids with their transference locked down are in space yeeted moon), they are tiny bit losing themselves into their frame(s). It are all most likely regular copy frames that didnt agree to go into cryopod sleep controlled by a tenno that doesnt even know they are a tween potato kid (again like player).
This kinda thing always reminds me how much Valkyr seems to completely screw with the lore, both with how her Prime is designed (the arm attachment, and not the ribbons), and how she's described like a properly sentient being, when as a "mass produced" frame, she really shouldnt be. Hell, in theory the Valkyr we construct shouldn't even be damaged if you think about it, as the blueprints should be for the complete frame, not an semi incomplete one Alad tore to bits.
Everything about Valkyrs lore is solid, except for the Prime design The reason our Valkyr looks all busted is because we take the Blueprints directly from Alad, and thus we create the experimented on Valyr The Deluxe skin is how Valkyr used to look like before Alad got to it, so the Prime should have looked like her Deluxe As for the sentient part, she had a Tenno controlling her, but the Tenno were asleep in the Void at the time, so Alad didn't know that the Tenno were children and not the frames themselves
@@arescosan Nope, Primes came before, its just a difference in visual design thats slightly jarring. But then again compare looks of nekros vs prime or saryn vs prime or atlas vs prime or even better titania prime who was never properly finished since she got resources siphoned off her yet we make the complete original ballas design now. Valkyr deluxe really isnt even that far off the prime (both got ballgags, shoulder wings, the stomach A line, crown spikes, etc the biggest difference is why valkyr prime has the oversized arm guards to suspiciously look like the salad cuffs on base valkyr).
@@ANDELE3025some frames started as primes others ‘earned it’ and base frames are considered practice frames and thus easily expendable maybe valkyr was never a prime but only the deluxe version and the prime Valkyr is Tenno made
@@commandercorgi OG lore all initial products were primes of infested material and orokin tech, no people, honestly dont give a fuck what DE is doing now.
I imagine they all just have tenno, and that all the events described were either before or after the tenno all went into hibernation. as you said drusus probably does not know about the operators.
@@TheDsIEGE They probably have all died or been hunted down. We know gara, for example died. Mirage and Limbo as well iirc. Rell "survived" to the present day, but at the cost of his sanity. He very much seems to be the outlier, though who knows.
They were originally planning on adding umbral echoes (item that gives frames umbra's sentience for few games) but that idea was scapped for Lua Lenses
The first Warframes that were created by the Orokin and depicted in the Leverian did not have an Operator controlling them. Such Warframe is the Stalker also. Also the Specters we encounter in Junctions and can deploy in mission are such frames.
The stories in the Laverian remind me of Mirage's story.... there was a Tenno in control, but the frame itself was treated like a mythical being..... Also, all of our frames are copies of the original (the originals are the Primes) Not all frames have Umbra versions, since the Umbras were the original prototype failures, as described by Ballas The Primes were created by Margulas after the Tenno were found in the Zariman ship (also after the Umbras) If you listen during Sacrifice, Hunhow already knew about the Umbras, but Ballas tells him that they found the answer on how to control a frame (the Tenno) and informs him on essentially the creation of the Prime frames (which were created specifically for the Tenno to help control their power) That is why I don't think all frames are sentient, since the "Metal Puppets" were made for Tenno transferance 1st, then used as weapons by the Orokin after, and not vise versa Also each frame had it's own Tenno originally, as they were created to suit/control the individual Tennos abilities
remember a few times when the orikin say before they were things we could not control hence forth the sentient standpoint of the levarien discription they are just frames that never got tenno the originals
From the Second Dream, we can see that the Warframe moves itself to break War Hunow. I do not believe this is the Tenno doing it as it is shown that without the use of the Trasnference pods in Lua or the Throne in the ship, they need physical contact as seen as when the Warframe only started to move and carry the Tenno AFTER physical contact was made.Some people suspect that the Lotus is the one to control the Warframe at that moment, but as the story progresses, it becomes more and more apparent that the Lotus can only influence the Tenno but not the Warframes themselves. So that can only mean that the Warframe itself made the conscious effort to move itself to break Hunhow. Do note that this is before War Within, where the Tenno was yet to be able to do remote transference by themselves so it begins to make sense then. Also, I think the fact the Tenno are children is a secret known to a few people like the Quills and Little Duck since they want to speak to them 'directly' before allowing their services. For the others, I think it can be judged by the dialogues from many bosses that the Tenno are just believed to be the Warframes themselves. I also do not think Teshin did not know the Tenno were children, more possibly he was surprised that the Queens knew of the Children as the Queens were long exiled from Orokin society so they should not know of them. In fact, I doubt the common Orokin also knows of the Children, Teshin only knows because he is a Dax soldier. Even Alad V, who is so fascinated with the Tenno does not seem to know of the Children. If we were to think that there are actually only one of each Warframe, it would actually make sense but I do not believe that may be true. Instead it is highly possible that the Warframes are actually sentient and have been moving by their own volition until the Tenno were reawakened. The best example is Baro Ki'Teer, whose story of Inaros actually involved himself as a child. At a time when the Tenno should still be asleep. So I believe that the Warframes are actually all sentient and lay dormant when the Tenno have transferred into them.
I'm assuming that it's the every warframe has a base Variant because if we remember right with the Ivara Levarian the Orokin (Specifically Ballas) tested each frame in a sort of death match against something if they lived they would continue making copies of that frame but the importance here is that that Ivara had Sentience.
Technically we don't have the original Umbra either, at the start of the sacrifice ballas killed him. We acquired a blueprint from his remains which we used to create a new clone of him.
Food for the thought, in the quest "The New Strange", the player hunts down a "rogue" Chroma, who has no tenno. Despite not having a tenno, the warframe acts sentient yet not quite feral. It could be that once a tenno's connection is broken from a warframe and another isn't made, the frame can gain it's own sentience and do as it pleases warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_New_Strange
Hey Siege, didnt see almost anyone here mention the little slip off the lip that Drusus has when you put a donation of 1million credits or more into his little donation box. Something along the lines of "Ahh..with this, i could buy my body- Ahem..A lavish gift for the Leverian!" Always found it interesting. Is his body completely gone, him being trapped in mind alone, like a cephalon? Or some other vital body parts that he would need. Maybe thats how he can control the warframes. From the Silver Grove quest, we know that Tenno are not the only ones capable of using transference, though with prolonged exposure it has a detrimental effect on anything that isnt Tenno. Perhaps Drusus using Transference for those warframes took a toll on his body, and now he aims to get it back? Or perhaps he is just like the solaris, having his body parts in debt to the Corpus. Would be a simpler explanation. Edit: Updated the quote to be accurate. Sauce: th-cam.com/video/m_XMprAkVSI/w-d-xo.html
@@dvoremay6683 It does, but it could go either way. He did try to cover what he said, didnt say it all the way through, and its not shown in subtitles. Maybe its more than just brain-shelving.
My explanation for it was that the lotus controlled the warframe herself, I mean, she's been seen controlling tenno, so idk why she couldn't control a warframe, really makes you wonder what the boss fight against her will be like
@@a-ramenartist9734 lotus has forgot all the information she had on the tenno because the orokin made a device that programmed lotus to take care of the warframes and tenno. Since ballas has destroyed the programming device , lotus is back to her old self and now she has no information on tenno so going against her will be a piece of cake
Your frame didn't go sentient (a lot of people think it did and thus think all frames are like Umbra) your frame getting up and carrying your Tenno was you using partial transferance
Fun facts: -none of the frames displayed are primes, even the ones who would be on display and/or in high-priority missions. -there is no reason you can't print a prex from virtual data(there is DRM on blueprints, so there is a reason why only 1) -warframe mechanics are obviously not common knowledge -Grendel and Gauss operated at around the same time in -There are 2 furries for Venari. No bit of lore "has to matter" In conclusion: Drusus Liverian is a supremely unreliable secondary source that has about the same chances of being an important character as Sigor Sawah.
logon3000 well, I never said they were primes, more asking what’s going on, we physically pick the card up in the leverian, so it’s not virtual, I own both of those warframes and yet I’ve seen a Grendel in mission when I’m gauss and vice versa, and I said specifically that most stuff is put in for significance. Not all, just listen to the video. In conclusion you could be absolutely right that drusus will be no one special, but it literally has nothing to do with any of the reasons you stated above.
@@TheDsIEGE I am pointing out he could not be the protagonist of the stories or even that good of a collector because he doesn't have the real frames, unless orokin didn't send a prime to liberate Altra, prevent the destruction of Earth or be a "Saint" of an organization. I am also pointing out that your assumption that something shown is required to have any significance is wrong, as we have literally any codex fragment that isn't the main codex. "Operated at the same time" is actually a really bad argument, but "in mission" is a way worse refutation because I can argue Umbra is not unique.
Nah, you're straight up wrong. The frames are atill sleeping Tenno, ones that have not woken up from the "dream," ones that were still under the control of the Lotus/ Natah before she betrayed the orokin. This is when the Tenno and 99% of other people, thought the Tenno were the Warframes themselves, very few people knew the secret of the Tenno. Its very easily explainable and I don't get how siege doesn't see this himself. The Umbra is a failed prototype, one that was supposed to retain it's conciousness, which it did, however only partially so, the hivemind and old memories drove them insane. Umbras are sentinet, but the go berserk without a Tenno, whereas every other frame is more golem and machine like, they literally cannot operate without a Tenno whether that be Primes or regular frames. In other words the Warframes were a failure until the Tenno arrived, meaning the Warframes no longer needed a pre existing conciousness, one that drove the fames insane and made them "useless" to the Orokin. Thus the newer frames regular and Primes are most likely entirely artifical, hence why they can't move without us or used "dead" humans as a basis.
What does donating to the Leverian to "Keep the lights on" actually do? For an achievement perhaps? Or to keep the neural link active as we go through Drusus' memories?
There’s three things going on here. Firstly, the average denizen of Origin System doesn’t know about the Second Dream. So Leverian wouldn’t know either. Second, all this is viewed through the lens of archaeologists trying to piece together stories from before the collapse. These stories are the result of second hand accounts, educated guesswork, and the literal centuries of mythologizing that have happened in the Tennos’ absence. Thirdly, even at the height of the Orokin Empire, Tenno were a relatively rare sight with only a fraction of the numbers of the Dax and Grineer. So the average citizen might see two identical warframes on separate occasions and assume they are the same Tenno.
I always thought the lavarian stories took place back when 1tenno was linked with 1 frame, and they just went unnamed or like you said, the researchers on the events just didn't know about the Tenno and frames being different. But this is a super interesting topic to think about, especially because I've never put a whole lot of thought into the levarian and just enjoyed the stories. Thanks for the video man :)
Fun video ^.^ Funny how Warframe lore is among my favorite of all the lore-rich games lately. I don't think I typically associate rich lore with this genre of game. Thanks for making videos like these! Adds to the game's story-telling and mystery ;)
@TheDsIEGE Man, you deserve a spot in DE's Devs you might be able to single-handedly bring order and clarity to the storyline and even improve on it. Great work keep it up!
The two options I see for as an explanation are it's either a golem. like Rhino was at first as in his codex entry. The other could be that Drusiss IS the Tenno for these frames.
@@Arc_Eden Thanks. I thought it was his entry where they talked about it. I'll see if I can find it again. Something about how a prototype Rhino went insane because it was a golem and didn't have anything controlling it. I'll keep an eye out. Maybe it's in some quest dialog.
@@SpikeBrave His Codex entry does talk about him going berserk and killing people, at the end he ends up in a room where they are keeping the Tenno, and he realizes that he himself is a Tenno. The people Rhino is chasing in that scene talk about how they are gonna get promotions, that's because the story is describing the 1st successful transferance experiment The language used in his entry is what confuses people, almost everyone thinks it's about the Rhino frame itself being in control, but it is in fact an unknowing Tenno
You keep showing that scene of the old war with the old queen haveing a missing finger, but somehow never stop to ask if her missing finger is the one on board the railjacks. Maybe that casing makes the finger look enlarged like through a looking glass. Also you can see the queen other fingers look very similar to the on on the railjack. Other then that your lore videos still fk me up a bit so thank you very much for bringing something new into the warframe universe for someone who thought has exhausted everything in the game by now.
Hey there from 2023 so i see the laverians as action of the tenno factions during and before the orokin fall as a world building tool by DE from the pov of a outsider
My impression was always that the Umbra frames were the original, the Prime frames were the Orokin era models, and the "normal" frames were modern replicas.
2:47 - Option 3, as per second dream/directly post betrayal, most potato kids got yeeted with the moon under lockdown, in combination with lotus getting frames into cryopods. Those would then be the primes or even knockoffs (as we know from the octavia and side comics, the non-prime frames started production even way back during the orokin era which further supports the idea that primes were the proto mechs, personal builds by ballas team for the elite; while ballas himself was fiddling around to do evil vengeance over waifu laughs) that stuck around, but due to being locked down AND blocked from fully using transference unlike us/the player they lost themselves into behaving what the warframe did with some side goals of their own.
Maybe, but... given the lore we do have, they are overwhelmingly described as mindless rampaging animals. The tenno were able to "calm" them down... At least from what I've read at least.
@@TheDsIEGE actually is a mind link but because the warframe mind is empty the operator takes full control think as using screen share but with all your senses and memories the operator gets control and the sensorial impute and the warframe mind hibernate on the back seat
@@reveil85 they turned on the orokin in the same way that a wild dog could on its owner, meaning they attacked anything and everything in sight, including the orokin.
Oh I see, in this last case Drusus is like seeing his warframes as actual sentient characters/playing with them and writing stories around their personalities, like what I do in my head... XD
Thanks for upload, more confused then ever with lore... Lol Starting to believe that DE as a sick sense of humor trowing us off or keeping us in the dark and refuse to tie the lore. Unless the lore was never a real thing for Warframe and fans like you, others and myself just ''created one from not much'' and we are trying to convince our self and others that is what DE always intended.. I comfort myself that the lore part is actually keeping me some what in the game. Trying to dissert everything we can get our hands on. Like a big brain teaser. Anyway great work and again Thank you for the content. Peace and stay safe.
Warframes were made from specific individuals - Valkyr, Mirage's prime trailers pretty explicitly mention this. Umbra was pretty much the major 'reveal'. Less confirmed but likely is they are able to reassert control when under significant emotional duress - Umbra pretty much all the time but also whatever your frame is during the second dream (or war within, idk) to pick you up and save you, ect. Warframes and tenno are likely a one for one deal - look at Rell & Harrow. They are synonymous because most consider the warframe to be 'avatars' of the tenno, like a username or armor. The whole 'considering warframes as living sentient people made from torture and the infested' is probably a narrative the orokin weren't eager to encourage. Similarly considering the ambiguity about whether the tenno were deliberately created, taking 'magic space children' out of the public perception was likely too. So warframes are weapons, piloted by the tenno, who are soldiers, but outside of that its all very ambiguous. I think the multiple warframes thing is in the same canon realm or killing vor for the hundreth time, a purely mechanics based decision and not suggesting some sort of 'super tenno' that links the leverian frames or 'prototype' frames that modern warframes are cloned from - ballas was an artisan, each frame uniquely designed and crafted, no way he was just making molds for mass production. Also! The leverians very much feel like an endeavour from the story and art side of DE. While designing these themed pieces, building up frames, as is the same with concept artists, you start to write little stories about them, imagine them in action. Maybe its just a more concentrated example of those, built off new frames or deluxe skins, letting that creativity manifest beyond skins and aesthetics. Again, hard to confirm but as an artist myself, the leverians feels like how I would pitch bringing my ideas about the frames im sculpting into the game without making too much work for the whole team.
Prior to the Second Dream no-one knew about the operators (other than a few Orokin). To everyone else in the Galaxy the Warframes were each individual entities capable of amazing things. Add in a lot of time and each Warframes tale became near legend with Inaros being near deified. The levarian is the best of each warframes stories plus time and a little dramatic flair from Drusus. Each of these stories are Tenno controlled Warframes. Umbra is unique though one day they may add echoes copy that ability onto them. It would be great to have any Tenno NPC in the game who could add to the some lore from an operators perspective.
I always thought that each and ever warframe was specifically made for just a pilot when you think about it the quests describe from the villagers point or the warframe like gara nidus innaroes etc but it also wouldn't make much since to mass produce a one warframe and make them the same especially if your enemy is able to adapt to elements or gain resistances Any way that's how I thought of the warframes I like your theory too keep up the great work
My theory is that Drusus is just recounting stories of warframes without the secret knowledge that only Helminth, select Orokin, the Quill and a few Sentients know. He projects personality onto the warframe as if the machine was just a suit. Arguably only Ballas, Lotus, Hunhow and the infestation know that the puppets house infested flesh. The Tenno faction was as far as we know, only publically known as a group of warframes. Also, warframes are relics of the old war, it's fair to say that Drusus has found and or bought most of his collection. Remember that he's not displaying primes or umbras, and the cards are very much the collectible promotional cards that come with any popular brand.
Interesting thoughts. Although i do like the idea of him being some kind of Tenno i dont think its likely as depending on how much credits you donate he says something along the lines of buying back something before cutting himself off but it sounds like body suggesting hes a solaris of some sort. (Maybe the biz?). As for the tenno or non tenno operators i think its more likely that there were tenno operators as i believe the frames use void energy to power the abilities to some degree and the stories describe how the warframes use their abilities.
Mate you have got it all wrong. Drusus is just simple solaris operative who is trying to get his body back and that is why he is investing the artifacts in the in the musem . If you will donate 100k or milion credits (I cound't remember which one) one of his answers is "Ahh... with that... I could buy my bo...-- a lavish gift for the Leverian." And lets turn back to the Umbral warframe part, Umbral exalibur is the first exalibur version and probably the first warframe but if you will check the rhino prime's lore you will see rhino has the same berserker attitue like umbral excalibur. So besides before tenno program many of the warframes are getting out of control, tenno is the solution for taking controll of them properly . In the erra quest you can see all warframe showns in there are prime warframes. Which you can see from name to prime ones are the original ones and regular versions are just cheap coppies for mass production.Umbral version was a production mistake , nothing more. Besides as you can see on the ivara's leverian if a warframe is not 100 % flowless on controlls on operative values unlike umbra Balas is destroying those warframes and their blueprints . No body knows about the tenno is being a child who get mutated from the void other than high level orokins , That is why grineer quuens knows them but Vor doesn't have any information. But in leverian we are geting informations about how Orokin Emipre are using their most advance operatives and which situaions are for Warframe activities. As you can see on Grendel,Gauss,Atlas and Nova's leverians Orokin are using warframes to make a statement to the solar systems or they are realy sending them to crate solution for imposible odds to solve. So the warframes you heard the stories in leverian are already bound with tenno but oviously Drussus doesn't know what tenno actually is like the rest of the solar system.
I was always under the impression that maybe they were iterated. Like the original frames were in fact individual unique supper soldiers. That's why a lot of frame specific lore and quest refer to them as if they were individuals that also explained how limbo or marage could "die" the way we find out they do in those quest. Then at a later point after the figured out the tenno and there transferrance they started accepting the most exceptional soldiers or maybe even the hardest to control (rhino and ember) and mass producing "warframes" as hosts for the tenno. In fact based on the old flavor text for rhino and ember I think there could have been two or three phases. First they made ten zero survivors with unique ability into soldiers the intended purpose. Some were uncontrollably so they eventually developed a way to make them inert then used the void sensitive tenno to control them. Then decided to mass produce frames. Void exposed infested bodies ment to have no mind without the tenno Finally. The continue to make unique warsoldiers like umbra dax soldiers turned warframe. Then those that displayed exceptional abilities are made into mass production warframes at the cost of themselves kinda like the opposite of cephalons Minds without bodies and bodies without minds.
So I don't know if you guys know this but back in the day before the living ring and there used to be another way to get the lower other than reading it. So when you use to complete the index for scanning certain things, it would give these special images. You could look in your index and when you put the cursor over certain points. You'd start hearing sounds. And when you found all of them it would start playing audio like in the Liberian or showing a video or start changing the way the picture looked. And the more you listen the more you can get
If we’re under the assumption that Drusus is in fact the Tenno who used the frames in the Leverian then an obvious hole in the theory would be the mention of Gauss and Grendel being allies. If he supposedly had both in his arsenal and used them in the retellings of his encounters, then explaining that they were two frames/Tenno who fought together wouldn’t make sense. Aside from that I love these in-depth lore videos they really get me thinking. Great work as always! :3
Agreed. The sacrifice quest I think has some holes through it when considered against the whole of warframe... I might have to look into that further...
My personal headcannon is initially every Tenno was issued only a single Warframe, but the Tenno that lost their original issued ones (like the destroyed models in ivarras entry) were issued cheaper copies of other frames later in the war. This would explain the primes vs standard variants. These Tenno who maintained their original frames are the ones the leverian entries are about. So the leverian entries are each individual Tenno acting through their original warframes
My guess is there was a progenitor tenno, the first to take control of that particular frame. sort of like the test pilot who somehow got the personality of the warframe. maybe a design oversight. which was corrected in the mass produced variants. the first ones became the warframes in character and acted that way. And since the tenno took control of the warframes through dreams, they're probably still asleep in the reservoir after their warframes got destroyed.
The first batch of Warframes where sentient. Rhino's Prime lore entry has a Rhino rampaging through an Orokin ship, killing and eating everyone. All without a tenno. But it seems like after the Tenno started bonding with the warframes that it happened less and less often. But it should be noted that only a handful of people actually knowns about the operators in warframe.
Oke, from what I understood from the sacrifice quest is that the Orokin first try use the Warframes independent. Indeed created from top warriors transmuted with a refined strain of the infected. As I understand it all frames had a "Umbra" predecessor. They where difficult to control but used before the Tenno. The project was almost shutdown before the Tenno where introduced. It's also strongly implied that Stalker is also an Umbra. But... DE has never made any conclusive statements. So yeah, it's shrouded in mystery. The fact that the Tenno existed and controlled the Warframes was hidden or forgotten knowledge at the start of the game. However after Lua being pulled back into realspace and as more awaken and start, acting slowly knowledge of their existence grows. I think replaying the sacrifice and and reading every waster egg they hide in there will give a decent impression. Than taking that as a base for what happens in the Laverian. Maybe it makes sense.
I already figured it out the story's in the leveian that the warframes in the story are definitely are self moving themselves. Just look at Ivara leveian. She was in the test if she is worthy to live. Remember, the other warframes was with ivara but they are gone completely. Anyways I always believed that warframe uses to self aware moving themselves. Anyways I believe the Tenno don't fully control the warframe. The warframe you play as always have special behaviors what if that is how they actually behaved when they were once well move on there owned.
During the ivara Liverian, it was said that ivara was on a team of "nameless warframes" supposedly these were progenitors, and as they failed in their missions, they were not replicated or recreated. Thus, I believe that the mass production of a frame is based off the progenitor's performance, an I'd they do will, like ivara did, they will be put into mass production and will have blueprints and components made based on them
I always assumed the events described in leverian is after tenno took over the Warframe project ( after it was found out void demons can control rhino) and before their betrayal of the seven. Surely the old war went on for quite a long time and with the amount of tenno around there has to be some stories to tell individually. As for the original warframes, I like to think there were very few of the original experiments that remained sane after infection and their story is what we get as quests ( like the first titania and mirage) and those that were brought to mainstream after tenno started controlling them are released as boss drops (rhino and wisp for example). There is obviously some tenno based Warframe quests too (gara, atlas and revenant)
Ivaras levarian makes it sound like she was at the time a one of a kind autonomous frame. Part of a squad of similarly unique frame. They died and she survived. And as a "reward" they immortalized her( probably by mass producing her.)
Here are me 5 cent about this: I think the interactions up until the "child reveal" shows that in universe people just know that the Tenno are supreme warriors, that use the Warframes. Propably as armors, since Alad V tried to open a Warframe, to look inside. The informations in the Silver Grove show that they were developing different kind of Warframes after the installed Transference technology in them. Which makes a lot of sence, since you wouldn't create different, suffisticated versions of warbeasts, you can't controll. And from what Ballas sounds like, the first Warframes where little more than beasts back then. To me it seems that they created different models of Frames for different Tenno. At least the Ember Prime Codex entry implies that different children had differnet powers, so naturaly different Frames would be better for some of them. My head canon is that the Orokin, after realising what a potential weapon they had build a Frame for each surviving child and then issued these to other Tenno after testing or perfecting them(The primed versions). So Drussus would of course think that A Tenno has A specific Warframe. And propably his ancestors started the Levirian Archive, which seams to me like a rather private collection, like from a rich or noble family. And he propably knows this stuff from good old archive work, where you compare reports, siphon through sources and what not.
I think in Voruna's liverian they relude to the operator of that Warframe. When voruna sees the child chosen to be the vessel for the orokin it seems clear that the child themself was Voruna's operator.
Regarding if a tenno was associated with one or more warframes, the clues I get from the stories, not only from the leverian, but from other stories like the glast gambit (which probably had Nidus involved at some point) and Baro's quest, it seems that each tenno had only one warframe, and usually they would get assigned or grow attached to some group, like inaros and baro's village, and ash and the cult. Kind of like if they were living their lives through a single warframe.
These could be just tales, like gara, but then again, protea is revealed by PARVOS that she had will to protect him, if they were tales they could be an operato, like the original ashe as you said. Great video, bad timing from a perspective of post deadlock protocol P.s. TIME TRAVELING REEEEE
There are lots of cradles on lua, we see this in the Erra cinematic "quest". The warframe's in the leverian are likely tenno controlled. Similar to us pre-second dream.
3:00 this is my exact idea. Umbra was the base for Excalibur. Grendel, nezzah, etc I believe the frames have a built in protect the operator at all costs programing that activates when and only when the operator is in direct and immediate danger ( when the stalker stabs out Warframe and we are possibly about to be perma killed ( at least in our minds at the time) or at least heavily damaged. Some frames were mad produced but others were original frames, and the different ones like say volt who don't really have a big story like umbra or stalker who was clearly an Excalibur at one point. Aren't original Warframes but production line soldiers for the Tenno to use as we know the Tenno are limited in number from what ever been only about 12 and have seen in the new war quest. So that's only 12 kids to pilot Warframes but we know there are at least 50 Warframes.
Also in the nezzah entry in the levarian his helmet was found on a battlefield. Nova her spare helmet is also called just that a helmet. So my theory is at one point the Warframes we're just a soldier who was seen as exceptional. The orokin we're known for their cruelty, so when these frames did their difining thing they were taken as a base a template like what we do with kevats and blueprints for our infested suits of armor with eh capabilities of the orokin empires best soldiers. So that them and their capabilities will never be lost to their empire.
My impression was definitely the latter; I wouldn't assume anyone to know about the true Tenno. But it also seems that there weren't duplicates of any given frame at the time the stories were told. Or maybe there were and it was just obvious which was the prototype, the Prime, or some such.
I remember that in the game whenever they talk about deeds that warframes have done for instance Gara or Revenant, they never actually use the tenno's name, they always talk as if the frame is acting on its own even though we know that there are tenno inside. The only tenno that is ever named instead of using the warframe name is Rell with Harrow. What I used to believe was that each tenno had their own Warframe specifically built for them, so addressing a warframe would be addressing the tenno, since they would essentially be one and the same. That would explain why we rarely get to hear of other tenno even though we hear so much about what they did. I feel like our tenno is unique and after all the other tenno had "died" like Gara or became lost like Limbo, we just reclaimed their warframes and created our stash.
I've found leverian functionally pretty pointless. But a lot of the lore on Grendel and Gauss suggests the frames act on their own and have done in the past.
Way I like to think of warframes is that warframes tenno use are recreations from original warframes, because of what i understood from titania and limbo quests. Titania was created by Silvana and titania died when she was trying to protect her creator, and later when defending silver grove tenno got parts of deceased titania and was able to recreate her. For limbo my take is that he got destroyed when he was using or even researching rift and later tenno was able to recover parts or even guides from rift on how to recreate him.
I think I’m the second dream quest how the warframe takes the sword out by himself and Excalibur was the first warframe to be made then everyone has/had a special warframe for a while
Seems like this was indirectly answered by the Dagath story where she was explicitely stated to be a low ranking Dax soldier that was turned into a Warframe not unlike Excalibur Umbra, I assume this is probably going to be the case with Arthur too in 1999 as he seems to be using Excal abilities
I was one second from trying to answer this question, before you said "demon" may be a classification which is now something I'm going to contemplate for a while (short answer I think the Leverian is Teeno or Teeno esque entity cataloguing conquests.)
The Tenno were put into hibernation when they first got there powers. When they used for the warframe project they thought they were the frames themselves, but it was just a lucid second dream. So those story's are about Tenno controlled warframes who think they are the frames
I had actually thought of the "original frames are sentient" idea before watching this, amd i have to say that it would be interesting to see. I have ideas on how to implement this lore, but thats irrelevant, so i wont bother with details.
Your not the only 1 with decent, make sense ideals not to mention lots of other things from DESIGNS TO UNIQUE PROLOGUE'S ETC....but I hear u talking!!!!
I always thought it'd be a cool twist to have the "deluxe skins" turn out to be progenitor(s) frames. The base and prime frames then being the "mass-produced" versions.
About vor and his wanting to capture the Warframes, my thought is that if you capture a Warframe, eventually the tenno controlling it will come after it to reclaim it. So a long long play of what teshin was doing during the war within. Idk if that makes sense, but that's how I understand it
It is widely shown by many lines of dialogue of many characters, antagonists or friendlies, that they don't know that the Warframe is a puppet, instead of an armor. Maroo tells us that we will be fine, to stretch our legs, that we're risking ourselves going in the derelicts, Leech Krill says he will crush the tenno (not the warframe) with his hammer, as if the tenno was inside, Tyl Regor says "Let my gavel ring justice off your thin, tin skull", as if the warframe was a metal armor, he also says "A dissection? No, no no no, that sounds too humane", as if he was going to dissect the human inside the armor, and many other examples. Hell, even Ordis tells a joke about how our warframe "suits" us, as the pun intends to say that it souts in the sense that we wear it. They know the word "tenno", but don't actually know what is the warframe, just as everyone when they started playing. Everyone sees the behavior of the warframes, and think they are either alien like living things or they are humans inside an armor. The Leverian probably doesn't know about that, and even if he did, he tells the stories that people used to tell when they sighted the warframes. So describing the behavior as being from the warframe seems logical, and the thing that one that doesn't know the truth would do. I watched every bit of the Leverian assuming that the tenno were behind them. That is quite the clever writing right there.
I've never been able to get my head around the frames and their sentient and current existence, the game give each frame a personality in their quests codex as well as the leverian suggesting the frames either had sentience like umbra but lost it or each tenno piloted one frame and one frame only the chains of harrow suggests this and that to me makes the current existence of the frames a bit weird as well as the question of how exactly are we building these frames if a frame takes a literal person to make
I gotta say, my idea on this was simple, I still believe that the original frames (primes) each had only 1 tenno and were one of kind, in other words, each tenno had his own frame that was one of kind produced by the orokin (which in the last apostasy we had, when we see the moon in TOW, we one heck of a lot of transference capsules in the back, which, for me, opens up the possibility for a lot of new frames), but about his ones, I really prefer your idea, the fact that he even has an older voice could easily tie up to the duviri paradox, since we know that the tenno are not imortal childs and Will eventually grow older (even though we don't know the exact timespan this kids have, but, since there are exceptions like Rell and Harrow, let's go with that) my only problem in this is how to tie it into the lore, since, supposedly, every frame went into cryosleep after the fall of the orokin empire, nonetheless (and something that could be a good topic for your videos, plz just go for it), something that still doesn't had up is the fact that the frame that we wake up with, is not a prime, is a said-copy, so if we picture the story together, were is our "original prime"? The one that would supposedly been put into cryosleep after the fall?? Am I the only who see's something's missing here?? And if we even consider cinematic trailer they we're making cannon, then the "copys" were already around right after the fall of the empire?? (That's for another video)
The simplest explanation is that very few people knew the true nature of the tenno, and most people thought that tenno and warframe were one and the same. Most people who knew otherwise died with the Orokin empire, leaving just the Lotus who wanted to keep that secret, Ballas who was busy hiding and setting up his grand plot, the twin queens who aren't about to answer questions from anyone, and a handful of others who either want to protect the tenno or would kill Drusus if he tried to get information from them.
I cannot attest to how to reconcile the leverian with the lore but I do have a detail that you seem to have over looked when discussing umbra. I’m the sacrifice quest, Ballas says the Dax was infected with a different strain of the helminth. While not elaborated on weather this is different from the failed variants, or a variation on the successful strain to creat the umbal frames that retain sentience.
Your boy Siege, asking the real questions. But my question is, have the moved forward on the community frame yet, and is there anywhere to vote or pick your concept as one of the final options of some kind?
Had a thought while typing a comment, during the Ivaras quest its noted that some warfames where destroyed as part of a test. Is it possible that most warframes were sentient, willing volunteers transfored into warriors. These evolutions, while powerful, may have lacked the powers related to the warframe for the most part (likely more to do with the scale of the power. As you mentioned, they dont seem that powerful in the stories compared to our use of them in game). Only on fusing with a operator does he serve as a battery for the warframes power. Not many of the warframe tales seem to relate to the sentient war, yet the downfall of the orokin was hinted to be at the celebration or honoring ceremony for the tenno. So can we look at the warframes, each individual, being used as a sort of elite soldier for the orokin? Presumably the process is dangerous or otherwise dificult to reproduce, as the orokin used great warriors. But with the discovery that tenno can control creatures, perhaps these originals were studdied and reproduced en mass, orginally becomming 'Prime Varients' (which we are able to salvage parts and build, which lends itself to the idea that these arnt the same as umbra who was transformed from a person). As the war progressed, ostentation would have taken a back seat, even to the orokin, and so the standard warframe would have been produced. Slightly weaker, but much more mass producable. This fits with the concept in game that we can have many of the same warframe running the same mission. Also in the cinematic trailer we see regular versions of warframes in what appears to be just shy of post orokin rule. Thats all i got for now.
Now that I think about it, in Grendels Levirian there are parts for a standard Gauss helmet meaning that non primed variants existed during the end of the Orokin empire and presumably before it with the Tennocon 2019 cutscene. My question is, did the Orokin make the regular frames, and if so why did they them to begin with even though the Primes are superior. Hopefully DE can shed some light on this.
Honestly, I had a bit different idea on what is behind these stories, and it is a bit more than just lost Tenno, it was something being part of my idea for a quest for years, and I'm still surprised it can still be adjusted to be lore-friendly, anyways, the idea was that Warframe designs didn't come out of nowhere, they were based on warriors who naturally could control energies of the Void like Tenno, and these powers manifested in different ways, Zariman wasn't an accident but an attempt on replicating this phenomenon on mass, and to some degree successful one but not for all Orokin, and later as Orokin discovered Tenno can control Warframes, they decided it might be a good idea to use Warframes as vessels for Tenno Void powers, and this is where the different powers come from as templates for them were these warriors of the past
I'm guessing the Warframes do have original Tenno "pilots." Rell was the original Tenno for Harrow. So these could be tales from the height of Tenno activity in the System. Unless one was part of the Transference project nobody knew about the existence of the Operators. So there's that.
I've been thinking that the warframe are beings that yea the orokin did create and they started to lose full control like with Ordis and the came the tenno that they could use to "calm" there beasts back into blissfully serving them again. But there are too many holes to guess atm. I would love more lore quests!
I'm guessing that Vor didn't know about the Tenno controlling the Warframes because Operators weren't a thing back then and Warframe and Tenno were thought to be one and the same thing.
My point exactly!
As far as I know, everyone knows that Tenno and Warframes are different things, the question is where a warframe ends and where a Tenno begins.
This is more or less written in the "warframes" codex.
To my understanding most of the people had no idea that there is more to the Tenno than the Warframes, untill after the War Within Tenno started to actually appear in the flesh.
So it would make sense for many characters to attribute the actions of a Tenno to their Warframe.
@@TheDsIEGE I suppose the existance of Operators was confidential to the highest ranks of the Orokins, given that it took Ballas' treason to point the Sentients to them.
JoacinoDaGona very good point!
Nora: Donate to the levarian, or you won't rank up.
Me: *Donates 1 credit*
Nora: ...ok. thats enough.
Thank you for summing up what I always do when I enter the leverian.
Stonks
Aren't the leverians supposed to come from historians and first person accounts? He brings this up in some instances like how the historians was in confusion over what poses the people who Atlas petrified were in. As well as in Ash story when he mentions how Pilio memoirs brought us this story. So in this case the people who we get these stories from wouldn't know about the operators and as such wouldn't mention them. Also as far as I'm aware of the leverians aren't quest locked so a new player could just walk into leverians if they wanted too having Drusus spoiled the second dream wouldn't be good for new players. So unless they quest locked it so only players pass second dream can enter i don't think he will ever specify whether it's the Warframe or operator acting in theses stories.
I agree and I think that's exactly why it was done. Hopefully when they get the new player quest stuff redone, that it accounted for...
@@TheDsIEGE yeah I agree hopefully they'll redo it soon or at least before Duvari. I really love your idea of Drusus being a operator though. I always just considered him to be a archmedian turned celphaon like Suda.
Not only that, but he makes sure to say that it is one of those warframes, meaning "this Gauss did the thing, that Ash did the other thing," not all Ashes and Gausses did it, just that specific one; besides, Siege nails the point but misses it completely, by an outsiders perspective, the Warframe are the people, so if I was looking at a Nova right now, I'd refer to her as Nova and not as the Tenno behind her.
Those particular stories were chosen because they are the most interesting of them all, simple as that.
@(ㆁωㆁ) yeah no, you're wrong, look it up
@(ㆁωㆁ) nope there's multiple of same warframe but all looked identical like a army of faceless machines
I just figured that the stories in the Leverians took place while the operators were in the long dream. And because there wasn't necessarily a face to go with the frame, they just used the frames name itself to recount the story
That is most likely the case, as all of the original stories of the Warframes (like Mirage) took place before we were awakened (Second Dream)
exactly, these warframes are most likely operators still sleeping, while being in control of the Lotus/ Natah at teh time, who was conversly under the control of the Orokin before she betrayed them .
You're the only channel I've seen so far that still discusses about the lore of warframe since the lore God, StallordD, has entered hibernation for god knows how long it's been.
Everyone: ok so warframes dont really work without tenno, ok (except umbra).
Protea lore: let me stop you right there.
@Crimson Sash he'd not talking about the spectre in the quest. He's talking about the original protea that protected parvos from the void
remember Harrow? maybe the tenno got stuck inside Protea as well. Deadlock Protocol says she created a temporal prison, so time hasn't passed in there since the time of the orokin.
@@vinolfernando Harrow was controlled by the man in the wall not the Warframe itself
@@ironbatman9689 what? No. In Chains of Harrow, we're told how Rell (the operator of Harrow) bound himself into the warframe to survive this long and hold off the man in the wall because he wasn't placed in the reservoir along with the other tenno. The quest is to destroy Harrow so Rell can finally rest. Which let's the man in the wall loose, as the encounters after the quest show.
@@vinolfernando the thing is, How much of this is real ? Lotus itself didin't knew who rell was at all. He could have been the man in the wall all along from what we know. But the most possible guess is that at some point Rell died, and the man in the wall took control over it's warframe or it's curses, it's really hard to tell
There's 2 trains of thought here.
1: There was a tenno controlling the Warframe at the time of the "events described" in the Levarian.
2: These were the "original" attempts that Ballas described that were a "miserable failure" before they used Transference to reign in an otherwise savage Warframe.
One seems more likely but Two seems like a distinct possibility.
I don't feel 2 is totally possible though, as the Warframes in the Levarian are very clearly acting with a specific mission during their stories or it is during the full blown rebellion of the Tenno. Plus remember that the Warframes were utterly wild and uncontrollable, with the Orokin trying to reign them in through torture (which would only make it worse of course). It was only after the Tenno "Took away their pain" that the warframes were controllable, and even then only by the Tenno themselves. The way the timeline is set up, the Tenno would have to be piloting the Warframes for the controlled and intelligent control we see from them.
That said, I feel like there is a....3rd option, though it is an extension of the 1st you laid out. When the tenno occupy a Warframe, in taking away the pain that the Warframe itself suffered, the true personality (though not necissarily memories) of the original person are uncovered. The Tenno, since they are already united with the Warframe, basically inherit those previously suppressed individual traits, thus allowing that Warframe to "live" as they once were again in their new bodies. Of course the tenno is largely in control, but the personality of the original is then influencing how they'd act, sometimes overriding the natural loyalty the Tenno were conditioned to have. Ash acts like an experienced but highly honorbound assassin who secretly seeks the downfall of his own order, Nova acts in an incredibly intelligent manner the Tenno themselves don't seem capable of, and Atlas acts on instinct to complete his mission through sheer iron will.
In other words, what happens when you combine an impressionable child with a fully formed personality? The child takes on that temporary intrusion as themselves, children after all are just adults with zero experience coloring their personhood. Transpose the fully realized personality of an adult onto them, and they are just going to adopt it to fill in the blanks that they are.
@@clayxros576 yes I highly agree, it would make sense the custom animations. That each warframe have, the traits of the warframes still phase through while the Tenno is in control. If it doesn't, then the Tenno would just stand still like they normally would without a warframe body.
@@clayxros576 Considering that in the Sacrifice, we basically briefly saw Umbra and his ordeal as ours, that's very possible, yea.
Month late, but even the question of if the infested orokin were true warframes. Primes have been described as built from parts, as is titania outright in her quest. Now its possible its a bit like how we re-stitch umbra together from the blown up bits with a bit of kuva-glue and metal+technocyte mache, id still bet on subject 9/umbra excal and co to be the only actual frames that were made from infesting people instead of built from inanimate bits. As such combined with the actions of the frames in question, id guess tis tenno acting mid/just after the fall of the orokin.
Rhino prime’s entry describes without operator and with operator pretty clearly…rhino umbra basically kinda but anyways feral vs methodical
Ok, i think DE wanted to keep the tenno ambigious so they can have more focus on the frame themselves. Mabye the unnamed tenno controlling the frames are us the playerbase and kept ambigious
Like some older generation of Tenno/players
@@kennethsatria6607I think meant us literally like our Tenno just before the second dream
So. Here's what I think.
First, I'd rule out the possibility of Drusus being a tenno for now: he refers to outside sources during at least Ash's and Nova's leverian entries.
Next, I like your Idea of the Umbra-Edition frames, but I think there was also a tenno at the helm. And maybe that'd explain Ash's reluctance to use Bladestorm, and Nova's to-ways portals.
Finally, Maybe Drusus isn't a tenno. But nothing indicates he doesn't have a tenno ship. As such, void trading could be an option.
so my speculations until proven wrong are:
- Drusus is no tenno, but may have a tenno ship;
- Umbra soldiers, but with tenno pilots/copilots;
- leverian cards are transferred either trough trade, or as physical ideas, like Paracesis's blueprints.
If we want more info, maybe we could ask Nora Night. She knows of the dream, maybe she'll have a lead at least.
Alternatively: Existing quests explain it, all events happen during to post fall of orokin (when potato kids with their transference locked down are in space yeeted moon), they are tiny bit losing themselves into their frame(s). It are all most likely regular copy frames that didnt agree to go into cryopod sleep controlled by a tenno that doesnt even know they are a tween potato kid (again like player).
I like how grendel just T-POSE in his leverian profile prex card
This kinda thing always reminds me how much Valkyr seems to completely screw with the lore, both with how her Prime is designed (the arm attachment, and not the ribbons), and how she's described like a properly sentient being, when as a "mass produced" frame, she really shouldnt be. Hell, in theory the Valkyr we construct shouldn't even be damaged if you think about it, as the blueprints should be for the complete frame, not an semi incomplete one Alad tore to bits.
Everything about Valkyrs lore is solid, except for the Prime design
The reason our Valkyr looks all busted is because we take the Blueprints directly from Alad, and thus we create the experimented on Valyr
The Deluxe skin is how Valkyr used to look like before Alad got to it, so the Prime should have looked like her Deluxe
As for the sentient part, she had a Tenno controlling her, but the Tenno were asleep in the Void at the time, so Alad didn't know that the Tenno were children and not the frames themselves
Yeah, DE went so far as to retcon that Primes came after the vanilla frames all because of Valkyr lol
@@arescosan Nope, Primes came before, its just a difference in visual design thats slightly jarring. But then again compare looks of nekros vs prime or saryn vs prime or atlas vs prime or even better titania prime who was never properly finished since she got resources siphoned off her yet we make the complete original ballas design now. Valkyr deluxe really isnt even that far off the prime (both got ballgags, shoulder wings, the stomach A line, crown spikes, etc the biggest difference is why valkyr prime has the oversized arm guards to suspiciously look like the salad cuffs on base valkyr).
@@ANDELE3025some frames started as primes others ‘earned it’ and base frames are considered practice frames and thus easily expendable maybe valkyr was never a prime but only the deluxe version and the prime Valkyr is Tenno made
@@commandercorgi OG lore all initial products were primes of infested material and orokin tech, no people, honestly dont give a fuck what DE is doing now.
I imagine they all just have tenno, and that all the events described were either before or after the tenno all went into hibernation. as you said drusus probably does not know about the operators.
I was thinking the same, but now I want to know who these tenno are, you know?
@@TheDsIEGE They probably have all died or been hunted down. We know gara, for example died. Mirage and Limbo as well iirc. Rell "survived" to the present day, but at the cost of his sanity. He very much seems to be the outlier, though who knows.
But garas frame died so did limbo's I thought
@@vael8813 correct, thats what I meant. we have a lot of known warframes dying in their lore
@@TheDsIEGE it highly possibly that both Tenno and warframe were becoming 1. Like truly become one not the who controling the body.
They should give all frames sentience at this point give a quest to unlock it for our fav frames
I've been saying that for a while!
@@TheDsIEGE imagine a quest line for each enabling us to do this? I'm fully aware of how much work that would entail on DE's part but god damn!
They were originally planning on adding umbral echoes (item that gives frames umbra's sentience for few games) but that idea was scapped for Lua Lenses
HELL YEAH I HAVE ALWAYS DREAMED OF THIS! glad I ain't the only one who thought of this
@@KeishinB237 oh yes. Absolutely
The first Warframes that were created by the Orokin and depicted in the Leverian did not have an Operator controlling them. Such Warframe is the Stalker also. Also the Specters we encounter in Junctions and can deploy in mission are such frames.
supposedly the operator was a militar secret only known by the council of seven and members of the warframe project
The stories in the Laverian remind me of Mirage's story.... there was a Tenno in control, but the frame itself was treated like a mythical being.....
Also, all of our frames are copies of the original (the originals are the Primes)
Not all frames have Umbra versions, since the Umbras were the original prototype failures, as described by Ballas
The Primes were created by Margulas after the Tenno were found in the Zariman ship (also after the Umbras)
If you listen during Sacrifice, Hunhow already knew about the Umbras, but Ballas tells him that they found the answer on how to control a frame (the Tenno) and informs him on essentially the creation of the Prime frames (which were created specifically for the Tenno to help control their power)
That is why I don't think all frames are sentient, since the "Metal Puppets" were made for Tenno transferance 1st, then used as weapons by the Orokin after, and not vise versa
Also each frame had it's own Tenno originally, as they were created to suit/control the individual Tennos abilities
remember a few times when the orikin say before they were things we could not control hence forth the sentient standpoint of the levarien discription they are just frames that never got tenno the originals
From the Second Dream, we can see that the Warframe moves itself to break War Hunow. I do not believe this is the Tenno doing it as it is shown that without the use of the Trasnference pods in Lua or the Throne in the ship, they need physical contact as seen as when the Warframe only started to move and carry the Tenno AFTER physical contact was made.Some people suspect that the Lotus is the one to control the Warframe at that moment, but as the story progresses, it becomes more and more apparent that the Lotus can only influence the Tenno but not the Warframes themselves. So that can only mean that the Warframe itself made the conscious effort to move itself to break Hunhow. Do note that this is before War Within, where the Tenno was yet to be able to do remote transference by themselves so it begins to make sense then.
Also, I think the fact the Tenno are children is a secret known to a few people like the Quills and Little Duck since they want to speak to them 'directly' before allowing their services. For the others, I think it can be judged by the dialogues from many bosses that the Tenno are just believed to be the Warframes themselves.
I also do not think Teshin did not know the Tenno were children, more possibly he was surprised that the Queens knew of the Children as the Queens were long exiled from Orokin society so they should not know of them. In fact, I doubt the common Orokin also knows of the Children, Teshin only knows because he is a Dax soldier. Even Alad V, who is so fascinated with the Tenno does not seem to know of the Children.
If we were to think that there are actually only one of each Warframe, it would actually make sense but I do not believe that may be true. Instead it is highly possible that the Warframes are actually sentient and have been moving by their own volition until the Tenno were reawakened. The best example is Baro Ki'Teer, whose story of Inaros actually involved himself as a child. At a time when the Tenno should still be asleep. So I believe that the Warframes are actually all sentient and lay dormant when the Tenno have transferred into them.
I'm assuming that it's the every warframe has a base Variant because if we remember right with the Ivara Levarian the Orokin (Specifically Ballas) tested each frame in a sort of death match against something if they lived they would continue making copies of that frame but the importance here is that that Ivara had Sentience.
"Tenno were asleep" So were we , yet we controlled many warframe within the arsenal before awakening.
Technically we don't have the original Umbra either, at the start of the sacrifice ballas killed him. We acquired a blueprint from his remains which we used to create a new clone of him.
Food for the thought, in the quest "The New Strange", the player hunts down a "rogue" Chroma, who has no tenno. Despite not having a tenno, the warframe acts sentient yet not quite feral. It could be that once a tenno's connection is broken from a warframe and another isn't made, the frame can gain it's own sentience and do as it pleases warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_New_Strange
i think we saw a short instance of that at the end of The Second Dream too when our Warframe broke the Stalker's Sword without us controlling it
Hey Siege, didnt see almost anyone here mention the little slip off the lip that Drusus has when you put a donation of 1million credits or more into his little donation box.
Something along the lines of "Ahh..with this, i could buy my body- Ahem..A lavish gift for the Leverian!"
Always found it interesting. Is his body completely gone, him being trapped in mind alone, like a cephalon? Or some other vital body parts that he would need. Maybe thats how he can control the warframes. From the Silver Grove quest, we know that Tenno are not the only ones capable of using transference, though with prolonged exposure it has a detrimental effect on anything that isnt Tenno. Perhaps Drusus using Transference for those warframes took a toll on his body, and now he aims to get it back? Or perhaps he is just like the solaris, having his body parts in debt to the Corpus. Would be a simpler explanation.
Edit: Updated the quote to be accurate. Sauce: th-cam.com/video/m_XMprAkVSI/w-d-xo.html
Sounds more like he got brain shelved. Or at least it sounds like he might be Solaris.
@@dvoremay6683 It does, but it could go either way. He did try to cover what he said, didnt say it all the way through, and its not shown in subtitles. Maybe its more than just brain-shelving.
Theory on how your warframe became sentient for a moment in the second dream quest?
(unless it was already explained and I wasn't paying attention)
My explanation for it was that the lotus controlled the warframe herself, I mean, she's been seen controlling tenno, so idk why she couldn't control a warframe, really makes you wonder what the boss fight against her will be like
@@a-ramenartist9734 lotus has forgot all the information she had on the tenno because the orokin made a device that programmed lotus to take care of the warframes and tenno. Since ballas has destroyed the programming device , lotus is back to her old self and now she has no information on tenno so going against her will be a piece of cake
There was an explanation and it’s the operator controlling the frame without the chair.
Your frame didn't go sentient (a lot of people think it did and thus think all frames are like Umbra) your frame getting up and carrying your Tenno was you using partial transferance
It didn't, it was transference
Fun facts:
-none of the frames displayed are primes, even the ones who would be on display and/or in high-priority missions.
-there is no reason you can't print a prex from virtual data(there is DRM on blueprints, so there is a reason why only 1)
-warframe mechanics are obviously not common knowledge
-Grendel and Gauss operated at around the same time in
-There are 2 furries for Venari. No bit of lore "has to matter"
In conclusion: Drusus Liverian is a supremely unreliable secondary source that has about the same chances of being an important character as Sigor Sawah.
logon3000 well, I never said they were primes, more asking what’s going on, we physically pick the card up in the leverian, so it’s not virtual, I own both of those warframes and yet I’ve seen a Grendel in mission when I’m gauss and vice versa, and I said specifically that most stuff is put in for significance. Not all, just listen to the video. In conclusion you could be absolutely right that drusus will be no one special, but it literally has nothing to do with any of the reasons you stated above.
@@TheDsIEGE I am pointing out he could not be the protagonist of the stories or even that good of a collector because he doesn't have the real frames, unless orokin didn't send a prime to liberate Altra, prevent the destruction of Earth or be a "Saint" of an organization.
I am also pointing out that your assumption that something shown is required to have any significance is wrong, as we have literally any codex fragment that isn't the main codex.
"Operated at the same time" is actually a really bad argument, but "in mission" is a way worse refutation because I can argue Umbra is not unique.
Nah, you're straight up wrong. The frames are atill sleeping Tenno, ones that have not woken up from the "dream," ones that were still under the control of the Lotus/ Natah before she betrayed the orokin. This is when the Tenno and 99% of other people, thought the Tenno were the Warframes themselves, very few people knew the secret of the Tenno. Its very easily explainable and I don't get how siege doesn't see this himself.
The Umbra is a failed prototype, one that was supposed to retain it's conciousness, which it did, however only partially so, the hivemind and old memories drove them insane. Umbras are sentinet, but the go berserk without a Tenno, whereas every other frame is more golem and machine like, they literally cannot operate without a Tenno whether that be Primes or regular frames. In other words the Warframes were a failure until the Tenno arrived, meaning the Warframes no longer needed a pre existing conciousness, one that drove the fames insane and made them "useless" to the Orokin. Thus the newer frames regular and Primes are most likely entirely artifical, hence why they can't move without us or used "dead" humans as a basis.
What does donating to the Leverian to "Keep the lights on" actually do? For an achievement perhaps? Or to keep the neural link active as we go through Drusus' memories?
There’s three things going on here. Firstly, the average denizen of Origin System doesn’t know about the Second Dream. So Leverian wouldn’t know either. Second, all this is viewed through the lens of archaeologists trying to piece together stories from before the collapse. These stories are the result of second hand accounts, educated guesswork, and the literal centuries of mythologizing that have happened in the Tennos’ absence. Thirdly, even at the height of the Orokin Empire, Tenno were a relatively rare sight with only a fraction of the numbers of the Dax and Grineer. So the average citizen might see two identical warframes on separate occasions and assume they are the same Tenno.
I always thought the lavarian stories took place back when 1tenno was linked with 1 frame, and they just went unnamed or like you said, the researchers on the events just didn't know about the Tenno and frames being different. But this is a super interesting topic to think about, especially because I've never put a whole lot of thought into the levarian and just enjoyed the stories. Thanks for the video man :)
Damn ... when you dropped that bomb near the end with "Drusus" ... that put a smile on my face, because that would be awesome if it'd be true.
Fun video ^.^ Funny how Warframe lore is among my favorite of all the lore-rich games lately. I don't think I typically associate rich lore with this genre of game. Thanks for making videos like these! Adds to the game's story-telling and mystery ;)
@TheDsIEGE Man, you deserve a spot in DE's Devs you might be able to single-handedly bring order and clarity to the storyline and even improve on it. Great work keep it up!
The two options I see for as an explanation are it's either a golem. like Rhino was at first as in his codex entry. The other could be that Drusiss IS the Tenno for these frames.
Rhino Prime was controlled by a Tenno during the event described in his Codex entry
@@Arc_Eden Thanks. I thought it was his entry where they talked about it. I'll see if I can find it again. Something about how a prototype Rhino went insane because it was a golem and didn't have anything controlling it. I'll keep an eye out. Maybe it's in some quest dialog.
@@SpikeBrave His Codex entry does talk about him going berserk and killing people, at the end he ends up in a room where they are keeping the Tenno, and he realizes that he himself is a Tenno. The people Rhino is chasing in that scene talk about how they are gonna get promotions, that's because the story is describing the 1st successful transferance experiment
The language used in his entry is what confuses people, almost everyone thinks it's about the Rhino frame itself being in control, but it is in fact an unknowing Tenno
funny...
the story of the Story Teller from the story told...
Pretty "strong Library" don't you think, tenno???
Good job brother
Swazdo-surah
I feel like even if this wasn't what they intended it would make for a very cool story...
@@TheDsIEGE thats the thing! they keep throwing stone with no aim, just like all the tenno...
ow wait!!!
hahahahahahaahahahahaaaaa
You keep showing that scene of the old war with the old queen haveing a missing finger, but somehow never stop to ask if her missing finger is the one on board the railjacks. Maybe that casing makes the finger look enlarged like through a looking glass. Also you can see the queen other fingers look very similar to the on on the railjack.
Other then that your lore videos still fk me up a bit so thank you very much for bringing something new into the warframe universe for someone who thought has exhausted everything in the game by now.
Hey there from 2023 so i see the laverians as action of the tenno factions during and before the orokin fall as a world building tool by DE from the pov of a outsider
It did get turned into a semi quest now so this aged well
still no explanation to where my credits go...
Expansion
Luckily we don't have space bordels.
Space Isis, to keep things interesting
My impression was always that the Umbra frames were the original, the Prime frames were the Orokin era models, and the "normal" frames were modern replicas.
2:47 - Option 3, as per second dream/directly post betrayal, most potato kids got yeeted with the moon under lockdown, in combination with lotus getting frames into cryopods. Those would then be the primes or even knockoffs (as we know from the octavia and side comics, the non-prime frames started production even way back during the orokin era which further supports the idea that primes were the proto mechs, personal builds by ballas team for the elite; while ballas himself was fiddling around to do evil vengeance over waifu laughs) that stuck around, but due to being locked down AND blocked from fully using transference unlike us/the player they lost themselves into behaving what the warframe did with some side goals of their own.
in my headcannon I believe warframes are sentient but managed to have a powerful bonding with the tenno working together with a symbiotic relationship
Maybe the frames where like alive before the tenno maybe they where corrupted or something like that made to have a tenno
Maybe, but... given the lore we do have, they are overwhelmingly described as mindless rampaging animals. The tenno were able to "calm" them down... At least from what I've read at least.
@@TheDsIEGE actually is a mind link but because the warframe mind is empty the operator takes full control think as using screen share but with all your senses and memories the operator gets control and the sensorial impute and the warframe mind hibernate on the back seat
@@TheDsIEGE I only remember mentioned in the Vitruvian they turned on the Orokin. Where are they described as mindless?
@@reveil85 they turned on the orokin in the same way that a wild dog could on its owner, meaning they attacked anything and everything in sight, including the orokin.
@@reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemastere1004 Ok but were did we get that info from? Sorry I must have missed it.
If Drusus is a tenno, is he just dismanteling and droppinh his frames in the leverian? Than he a weird tenno scoom
Oh I see, in this last case Drusus is like seeing his warframes as actual sentient characters/playing with them and writing stories around their personalities, like what I do in my head... XD
Thanks for upload, more confused then ever with lore... Lol Starting to believe that DE as a sick sense of humor trowing us off or keeping us in the dark and refuse to tie the lore. Unless the lore was never a real thing for Warframe and fans like you, others and myself just ''created one from not much'' and we are trying to convince our self and others that is what DE always intended.. I comfort myself that the lore part is actually keeping me some what in the game. Trying to dissert everything we can get our hands on. Like a big brain teaser. Anyway great work and again Thank you for the content. Peace and stay safe.
Warframes were made from specific individuals - Valkyr, Mirage's prime trailers pretty explicitly mention this. Umbra was pretty much the major 'reveal'.
Less confirmed but likely is they are able to reassert control when under significant emotional duress - Umbra pretty much all the time but also whatever your frame is during the second dream (or war within, idk) to pick you up and save you, ect.
Warframes and tenno are likely a one for one deal - look at Rell & Harrow. They are synonymous because most consider the warframe to be 'avatars' of the tenno, like a username or armor. The whole 'considering warframes as living sentient people made from torture and the infested' is probably a narrative the orokin weren't eager to encourage. Similarly considering the ambiguity about whether the tenno were deliberately created, taking 'magic space children' out of the public perception was likely too. So warframes are weapons, piloted by the tenno, who are soldiers, but outside of that its all very ambiguous.
I think the multiple warframes thing is in the same canon realm or killing vor for the hundreth time, a purely mechanics based decision and not suggesting some sort of 'super tenno' that links the leverian frames or 'prototype' frames that modern warframes are cloned from - ballas was an artisan, each frame uniquely designed and crafted, no way he was just making molds for mass production.
Also! The leverians very much feel like an endeavour from the story and art side of DE. While designing these themed pieces, building up frames, as is the same with concept artists, you start to write little stories about them, imagine them in action. Maybe its just a more concentrated example of those, built off new frames or deluxe skins, letting that creativity manifest beyond skins and aesthetics. Again, hard to confirm but as an artist myself, the leverians feels like how I would pitch bringing my ideas about the frames im sculpting into the game without making too much work for the whole team.
Hey space dad
hEy KidDo.
Best comment in this community
SoulIesS I’m the first to think of it and will be saying it tell the end
Prior to the Second Dream no-one knew about the operators (other than a few Orokin). To everyone else in the Galaxy the Warframes were each individual entities capable of amazing things.
Add in a lot of time and each Warframes tale became near legend with Inaros being near deified. The levarian is the best of each warframes stories plus time and a little dramatic flair from Drusus.
Each of these stories are Tenno controlled Warframes. Umbra is unique though one day they may add echoes copy that ability onto them.
It would be great to have any Tenno NPC in the game who could add to the some lore from an operators perspective.
I always thought that each and ever warframe was specifically made for just a pilot when you think about it the quests describe from the villagers point or the warframe like gara nidus innaroes etc but it also wouldn't make much since to mass produce a one warframe and make them the same especially if your enemy is able to adapt to elements or gain resistances
Any way that's how I thought of the warframes I like your theory too keep up the great work
My theory is that Drusus is just recounting stories of warframes without the secret knowledge that only Helminth, select Orokin, the Quill and a few Sentients know.
He projects personality onto the warframe as if the machine was just a suit. Arguably only Ballas, Lotus, Hunhow and the infestation know that the puppets house infested flesh.
The Tenno faction was as far as we know, only publically known as a group of warframes.
Also, warframes are relics of the old war, it's fair to say that Drusus has found and or bought most of his collection. Remember that he's not displaying primes or umbras, and the cards are very much the collectible promotional cards that come with any popular brand.
Interesting thoughts. Although i do like the idea of him being some kind of Tenno i dont think its likely as depending on how much credits you donate he says something along the lines of buying back something before cutting himself off but it sounds like body suggesting hes a solaris of some sort. (Maybe the biz?).
As for the tenno or non tenno operators i think its more likely that there were tenno operators as i believe the frames use void energy to power the abilities to some degree and the stories describe how the warframes use their abilities.
I always just assumed they were piloted by a Tenno they just didn't know
Surprised nobody’s talking about the tropic thunder reference, all of you take a big step back
Mate you have got it all wrong. Drusus is just simple solaris operative who is trying to get his body back and that is why he is investing the artifacts in the in the musem . If you will donate 100k or milion credits (I cound't remember which one) one of his answers is "Ahh... with that... I could buy my bo...-- a lavish gift for the Leverian." And lets turn back to the Umbral warframe part, Umbral exalibur is the first exalibur version and probably the first warframe but if you will check the rhino prime's lore you will see rhino has the same berserker attitue like umbral excalibur. So besides before tenno program many of the warframes are getting out of control, tenno is the solution for taking controll of them properly . In the erra quest you can see all warframe showns in there are prime warframes. Which you can see from name to prime ones are the original ones and regular versions are just cheap coppies for mass production.Umbral version was a production mistake , nothing more. Besides as you can see on the ivara's leverian if a warframe is not 100 % flowless on controlls on operative values unlike umbra Balas is destroying those warframes and their blueprints . No body knows about the tenno is being a child who get mutated from the void other than high level orokins , That is why grineer quuens knows them but Vor doesn't have any information. But in leverian we are geting informations about how Orokin Emipre are using their most advance operatives and which situaions are for Warframe activities. As you can see on Grendel,Gauss,Atlas and Nova's leverians Orokin are using warframes to make a statement to the solar systems or they are realy sending them to crate solution for imposible odds to solve. So the warframes you heard the stories in leverian are already bound with tenno but oviously Drussus doesn't know what tenno actually is like the rest of the solar system.
I was always under the impression that maybe they were iterated. Like the original frames were in fact individual unique supper soldiers. That's why a lot of frame specific lore and quest refer to them as if they were individuals that also explained how limbo or marage could "die" the way we find out they do in those quest.
Then at a later point after the figured out the tenno and there transferrance they started accepting the most exceptional soldiers or maybe even the hardest to control (rhino and ember) and mass producing "warframes" as hosts for the tenno.
In fact based on the old flavor text for rhino and ember I think there could have been two or three phases.
First they made ten zero survivors with unique ability into soldiers the intended purpose. Some were uncontrollably so they eventually developed a way to make them inert then used the void sensitive tenno to control them.
Then decided to mass produce frames. Void exposed infested bodies ment to have no mind without the tenno
Finally. The continue to make unique warsoldiers like umbra dax soldiers turned warframe. Then those that displayed exceptional abilities are made into mass production warframes at the cost of themselves kinda like the opposite of cephalons
Minds without bodies and bodies without minds.
So I don't know if you guys know this but back in the day before the living ring and there used to be another way to get the lower other than reading it. So when you use to complete the index for scanning certain things, it would give these special images. You could look in your index and when you put the cursor over certain points. You'd start hearing sounds. And when you found all of them it would start playing audio like in the Liberian or showing a video or start changing the way the picture looked. And the more you listen the more you can get
If we’re under the assumption that Drusus is in fact the Tenno who used the frames in the Leverian then an obvious hole in the theory would be the mention of Gauss and Grendel being allies. If he supposedly had both in his arsenal and used them in the retellings of his encounters, then explaining that they were two frames/Tenno who fought together wouldn’t make sense. Aside from that I love these in-depth lore videos they really get me thinking. Great work as always! :3
Agreed. The sacrifice quest I think has some holes through it when considered against the whole of warframe... I might have to look into that further...
8:37 best part of the video
My personal headcannon is initially every Tenno was issued only a single Warframe, but the Tenno that lost their original issued ones (like the destroyed models in ivarras entry) were issued cheaper copies of other frames later in the war. This would explain the primes vs standard variants. These Tenno who maintained their original frames are the ones the leverian entries are about. So the leverian entries are each individual Tenno acting through their original warframes
My guess is there was a progenitor tenno, the first to take control of that particular frame. sort of like the test pilot who somehow got the personality of the warframe. maybe a design oversight. which was corrected in the mass produced variants. the first ones became the warframes in character and acted that way. And since the tenno took control of the warframes through dreams, they're probably still asleep in the reservoir after their warframes got destroyed.
The first batch of Warframes where sentient. Rhino's Prime lore entry has a Rhino rampaging through an Orokin ship, killing and eating everyone. All without a tenno. But it seems like after the Tenno started bonding with the warframes that it happened less and less often.
But it should be noted that only a handful of people actually knowns about the operators in warframe.
Oke, from what I understood from the sacrifice quest is that the Orokin first try use the Warframes independent. Indeed created from top warriors transmuted with a refined strain of the infected. As I understand it all frames had a "Umbra" predecessor. They where difficult to control but used before the Tenno. The project was almost shutdown before the Tenno where introduced. It's also strongly implied that Stalker is also an Umbra. But... DE has never made any conclusive statements. So yeah, it's shrouded in mystery. The fact that the Tenno existed and controlled the Warframes was hidden or forgotten knowledge at the start of the game. However after Lua being pulled back into realspace and as more awaken and start, acting slowly knowledge of their existence grows.
I think replaying the sacrifice and and reading every waster egg they hide in there will give a decent impression. Than taking that as a base for what happens in the Laverian. Maybe it makes sense.
I already figured it out the story's in the leveian that the warframes in the story are definitely are self moving themselves. Just look at Ivara leveian. She was in the test if she is worthy to live. Remember, the other warframes was with ivara but they are gone completely.
Anyways I always believed that warframe uses to self aware moving themselves.
Anyways I believe the Tenno don't fully control the warframe. The warframe you play as always have special behaviors what if that is how they actually behaved when they were once well move on there owned.
During the ivara Liverian, it was said that ivara was on a team of "nameless warframes" supposedly these were progenitors, and as they failed in their missions, they were not replicated or recreated. Thus, I believe that the mass production of a frame is based off the progenitor's performance, an I'd they do will, like ivara did, they will be put into mass production and will have blueprints and components made based on them
I always assumed the events described in leverian is after tenno took over the Warframe project ( after it was found out void demons can control rhino) and before their betrayal of the seven. Surely the old war went on for quite a long time and with the amount of tenno around there has to be some stories to tell individually.
As for the original warframes, I like to think there were very few of the original experiments that remained sane after infection and their story is what we get as quests ( like the first titania and mirage) and those that were brought to mainstream after tenno started controlling them are released as boss drops (rhino and wisp for example). There is obviously some tenno based Warframe quests too (gara, atlas and revenant)
Ivaras levarian makes it sound like she was at the time a one of a kind autonomous frame. Part of a squad of similarly unique frame. They died and she survived. And as a "reward" they immortalized her( probably by mass producing her.)
Here are me 5 cent about this:
I think the interactions up until the "child reveal" shows that in universe people just know that the Tenno are supreme warriors, that use the Warframes. Propably as armors, since Alad V tried to open a Warframe, to look inside.
The informations in the Silver Grove show that they were developing different kind of Warframes after the installed Transference technology in them. Which makes a lot of sence, since you wouldn't create different, suffisticated versions of warbeasts, you can't controll. And from what Ballas sounds like, the first Warframes where little more than beasts back then.
To me it seems that they created different models of Frames for different Tenno. At least the Ember Prime Codex entry implies that different children had differnet powers, so naturaly different Frames would be better for some of them.
My head canon is that the Orokin, after realising what a potential weapon they had build a Frame for each surviving child and then issued these to other Tenno after testing or perfecting them(The primed versions).
So Drussus would of course think that A Tenno has A specific Warframe. And propably his ancestors started the Levirian Archive, which seams to me like a rather private collection, like from a rich or noble family. And he propably knows this stuff from good old archive work, where you compare reports, siphon through sources and what not.
I think in Voruna's liverian they relude to the operator of that Warframe. When voruna sees the child chosen to be the vessel for the orokin it seems clear that the child themself was Voruna's operator.
Regarding if a tenno was associated with one or more warframes, the clues I get from the stories, not only from the leverian, but from other stories like the glast gambit (which probably had Nidus involved at some point) and Baro's quest, it seems that each tenno had only one warframe, and usually they would get assigned or grow attached to some group, like inaros and baro's village, and ash and the cult. Kind of like if they were living their lives through a single warframe.
These could be just tales, like gara, but then again, protea is revealed by PARVOS that she had will to protect him, if they were tales they could be an operato, like the original ashe as you said. Great video, bad timing from a perspective of post deadlock protocol
P.s. TIME TRAVELING REEEEE
There are lots of cradles on lua, we see this in the Erra cinematic "quest". The warframe's in the leverian are likely tenno controlled. Similar to us pre-second dream.
3:00 this is my exact idea. Umbra was the base for Excalibur. Grendel, nezzah, etc I believe the frames have a built in protect the operator at all costs programing that activates when and only when the operator is in direct and immediate danger ( when the stalker stabs out Warframe and we are possibly about to be perma killed ( at least in our minds at the time) or at least heavily damaged. Some frames were mad produced but others were original frames, and the different ones like say volt who don't really have a big story like umbra or stalker who was clearly an Excalibur at one point. Aren't original Warframes but production line soldiers for the Tenno to use as we know the Tenno are limited in number from what ever been only about 12 and have seen in the new war quest. So that's only 12 kids to pilot Warframes but we know there are at least 50 Warframes.
Also in the nezzah entry in the levarian his helmet was found on a battlefield. Nova her spare helmet is also called just that a helmet. So my theory is at one point the Warframes we're just a soldier who was seen as exceptional. The orokin we're known for their cruelty, so when these frames did their difining thing they were taken as a base a template like what we do with kevats and blueprints for our infested suits of armor with eh capabilities of the orokin empires best soldiers. So that them and their capabilities will never be lost to their empire.
My impression was definitely the latter; I wouldn't assume anyone to know about the true Tenno. But it also seems that there weren't duplicates of any given frame at the time the stories were told. Or maybe there were and it was just obvious which was the prototype, the Prime, or some such.
I remember that in the game whenever they talk about deeds that warframes have done for instance Gara or Revenant, they never actually use the tenno's name, they always talk as if the frame is acting on its own even though we know that there are tenno inside. The only tenno that is ever named instead of using the warframe name is Rell with Harrow.
What I used to believe was that each tenno had their own Warframe specifically built for them, so addressing a warframe would be addressing the tenno, since they would essentially be one and the same. That would explain why we rarely get to hear of other tenno even though we hear so much about what they did. I feel like our tenno is unique and after all the other tenno had "died" like Gara or became lost like Limbo, we just reclaimed their warframes and created our stash.
I've found leverian functionally pretty pointless. But a lot of the lore on Grendel and Gauss suggests the frames act on their own and have done in the past.
Way I like to think of warframes is that warframes tenno use are recreations from original warframes, because of what i understood from titania and limbo quests. Titania was created by Silvana and titania died when she was trying to protect her creator, and later when defending silver grove tenno got parts of deceased titania and was able to recreate her. For limbo my take is that he got destroyed when he was using or even researching rift and later tenno was able to recover parts or even guides from rift on how to recreate him.
Nezha's Leverian has something interesting to say.
I think I’m the second dream quest how the warframe takes the sword out by himself and Excalibur was the first warframe to be made then everyone has/had a special warframe for a while
When the old war happened wasn't one tenno given a specific warframe like there weren't any duplicates?
Seems like this was indirectly answered by the Dagath story where she was explicitely stated to be a low ranking Dax soldier that was turned into a Warframe not unlike Excalibur Umbra, I assume this is probably going to be the case with Arthur too in 1999 as he seems to be using Excal abilities
I was one second from trying to answer this question, before you said "demon" may be a classification which is now something I'm going to contemplate for a while (short answer I think the Leverian is Teeno or Teeno esque entity cataloguing conquests.)
The Tenno were put into hibernation when they first got there powers. When they used for the warframe project they thought they were the frames themselves, but it was just a lucid second dream. So those story's are about Tenno controlled warframes who think they are the frames
Damn who would've thought he crack a theory 4 years early
I had actually thought of the "original frames are sentient" idea before watching this, amd i have to say that it would be interesting to see. I have ideas on how to implement this lore, but thats irrelevant, so i wont bother with details.
Your not the only 1 with decent, make sense ideals not to mention lots of other things from DESIGNS TO UNIQUE PROLOGUE'S ETC....but I hear u talking!!!!
I always thought it'd be a cool twist to have the "deluxe skins" turn out to be progenitor(s) frames. The base and prime frames then being the "mass-produced" versions.
About vor and his wanting to capture the Warframes, my thought is that if you capture a Warframe, eventually the tenno controlling it will come after it to reclaim it. So a long long play of what teshin was doing during the war within. Idk if that makes sense, but that's how I understand it
It is widely shown by many lines of dialogue of many characters, antagonists or friendlies, that they don't know that the Warframe is a puppet, instead of an armor. Maroo tells us that we will be fine, to stretch our legs, that we're risking ourselves going in the derelicts, Leech Krill says he will crush the tenno (not the warframe) with his hammer, as if the tenno was inside, Tyl Regor says "Let my gavel ring justice off your thin, tin skull", as if the warframe was a metal armor, he also says "A dissection? No, no no no, that sounds too humane", as if he was going to dissect the human inside the armor, and many other examples. Hell, even Ordis tells a joke about how our warframe "suits" us, as the pun intends to say that it souts in the sense that we wear it. They know the word "tenno", but don't actually know what is the warframe, just as everyone when they started playing.
Everyone sees the behavior of the warframes, and think they are either alien like living things or they are humans inside an armor. The Leverian probably doesn't know about that, and even if he did, he tells the stories that people used to tell when they sighted the warframes. So describing the behavior as being from the warframe seems logical, and the thing that one that doesn't know the truth would do. I watched every bit of the Leverian assuming that the tenno were behind them.
That is quite the clever writing right there.
I've never been able to get my head around the frames and their sentient and current existence, the game give each frame a personality in their quests codex as well as the leverian suggesting the frames either had sentience like umbra but lost it or each tenno piloted one frame and one frame only the chains of harrow suggests this and that to me makes the current existence of the frames a bit weird as well as the question of how exactly are we building these frames if a frame takes a literal person to make
I gotta say, my idea on this was simple, I still believe that the original frames (primes) each had only 1 tenno and were one of kind, in other words, each tenno had his own frame that was one of kind produced by the orokin (which in the last apostasy we had, when we see the moon in TOW, we one heck of a lot of transference capsules in the back, which, for me, opens up the possibility for a lot of new frames), but about his ones, I really prefer your idea, the fact that he even has an older voice could easily tie up to the duviri paradox, since we know that the tenno are not imortal childs and Will eventually grow older (even though we don't know the exact timespan this kids have, but, since there are exceptions like Rell and Harrow, let's go with that) my only problem in this is how to tie it into the lore, since, supposedly, every frame went into cryosleep after the fall of the orokin empire, nonetheless (and something that could be a good topic for your videos, plz just go for it), something that still doesn't had up is the fact that the frame that we wake up with, is not a prime, is a said-copy, so if we picture the story together, were is our "original prime"? The one that would supposedly been put into cryosleep after the fall?? Am I the only who see's something's missing here??
And if we even consider cinematic trailer they we're making cannon, then the "copys" were already around right after the fall of the empire?? (That's for another video)
The simplest explanation is that very few people knew the true nature of the tenno, and most people thought that tenno and warframe were one and the same. Most people who knew otherwise died with the Orokin empire, leaving just the Lotus who wanted to keep that secret, Ballas who was busy hiding and setting up his grand plot, the twin queens who aren't about to answer questions from anyone, and a handful of others who either want to protect the tenno or would kill Drusus if he tried to get information from them.
Can't wait for you to talk about Deadlock Protocol
I cannot attest to how to reconcile the leverian with the lore but I do have a detail that you seem to have over looked when discussing umbra. I’m the sacrifice quest, Ballas says the Dax was infected with a different strain of the helminth. While not elaborated on weather this is different from the failed variants, or a variation on the successful strain to creat the umbal frames that retain sentience.
Come on DE... HIRE SIEGE!!! I would love to see these theories come to life.
Quests also have the same issue, acting as if they don't have an operator. Deadlock Protocol released today is a prime and recent example.
Your boy Siege, asking the real questions.
But my question is, have the moved forward on the community frame yet, and is there anywhere to vote or pick your concept as one of the final options of some kind?
Had a thought while typing a comment, during the Ivaras quest its noted that some warfames where destroyed as part of a test. Is it possible that most warframes were sentient, willing volunteers transfored into warriors. These evolutions, while powerful, may have lacked the powers related to the warframe for the most part (likely more to do with the scale of the power. As you mentioned, they dont seem that powerful in the stories compared to our use of them in game). Only on fusing with a operator does he serve as a battery for the warframes power. Not many of the warframe tales seem to relate to the sentient war, yet the downfall of the orokin was hinted to be at the celebration or honoring ceremony for the tenno. So can we look at the warframes, each individual, being used as a sort of elite soldier for the orokin? Presumably the process is dangerous or otherwise dificult to reproduce, as the orokin used great warriors. But with the discovery that tenno can control creatures, perhaps these originals were studdied and reproduced en mass, orginally becomming 'Prime Varients' (which we are able to salvage parts and build, which lends itself to the idea that these arnt the same as umbra who was transformed from a person). As the war progressed, ostentation would have taken a back seat, even to the orokin, and so the standard warframe would have been produced. Slightly weaker, but much more mass producable. This fits with the concept in game that we can have many of the same warframe running the same mission. Also in the cinematic trailer we see regular versions of warframes in what appears to be just shy of post orokin rule. Thats all i got for now.
Now that I think about it, in Grendels Levirian there are parts for a standard Gauss helmet meaning that non primed variants existed during the end of the Orokin empire and presumably before it with the Tennocon 2019 cutscene. My question is, did the Orokin make the regular frames, and if so why did they them to begin with even though the Primes are superior. Hopefully DE can shed some light on this.
Honestly, I had a bit different idea on what is behind these stories, and it is a bit more than just lost Tenno, it was something being part of my idea for a quest for years, and I'm still surprised it can still be adjusted to be lore-friendly, anyways, the idea was that Warframe designs didn't come out of nowhere, they were based on warriors who naturally could control energies of the Void like Tenno, and these powers manifested in different ways, Zariman wasn't an accident but an attempt on replicating this phenomenon on mass, and to some degree successful one but not for all Orokin, and later as Orokin discovered Tenno can control Warframes, they decided it might be a good idea to use Warframes as vessels for Tenno Void powers, and this is where the different powers come from as templates for them were these warriors of the past
I'm guessing the Warframes do have original Tenno "pilots." Rell was the original Tenno for Harrow. So these could be tales from the height of Tenno activity in the System. Unless one was part of the Transference project nobody knew about the existence of the Operators. So there's that.
I've been thinking that the warframe are beings that yea the orokin did create and they started to lose full control like with Ordis and the came the tenno that they could use to "calm" there beasts back into blissfully serving them again. But there are too many holes to guess atm. I would love more lore quests!