@@NycktheDyck from a team perspective, probably performance. At least they were able to bury the contract by putting him on LTIR. What they couldn't get back was their first overall pick, even though 2000 was a pretty weak draft year, there were far better options.
You forgot about Chet Pickard 18th overall in 2008 by Nashville. They kind of rectify that by drafting Anders Lindback in the late 7th round, though. But they moved down three spots to pick him, getting a third round pick from Ottawa so they could pick Erik Karlsson. Never forget.
One thing to note about Campbell, Dallas was bankrupt at the time so didnt even have a AHL goalie coach to help Campbell learn and develop him. I feel like they were hoping he would just be good enough to make it
I feel like if there is any draft to "reach" for a goalie, it's this one. Next year will have some can't miss talent and not many goalies with top end potential that could go in the 1st round. I'm just hoping the Wings can get one of Wallstedt or Cossa this draft. I actually am leaning toward Wallstedt and wouldn't mind it at all if they took him at 6th.
Detroit could get another first too. Vancouver needs cap space desperately and if they want to trade Eriksson and Beagle contracts to Detroit (who has like 33 mil in cap space) it could/should cost them a first
2012 was the Year the Oilers drafted Yakupov first overall and the Bolts used their actual 1st round pick to get Slater Koekeke. The only reason they drafted Vassy at all is because the Wings traded them a pick. Risky business trading first round picks!!
Watched this video during breakfast and almost choked on my cereal when Shannon said "Riku Helenius". The guy played for my DEL2 hometown team in Germany the past couple of years and I did not have a clue he was drafted 15th overall.
@@LeylaDerben he's stuck on the latter. With the contacts the Sharks have they literally can't afford to rebuild atm. He should be looking at goaltending but something tells me he's gonna pick something else and sign another stop gap goalie in hopes they can be clutch.
That would be the dumbest move ever..but then again as a Wings fan I know just how dumb Bonehead Holland can be. EDM in win now mode. They need to draft the most NHL ready players. Drafting goalies that spent years developing is how you get fired.
@@vmi4172 however, this video (Shannon knowing his stuff!) shows that it’s a high probability that some of those goalies are studs, and just come in and play solid within a year or two! Many of these kids are in adult leagues, or collegiate. And they are all playing against each other in the World Juniors every winter. Too be honest, I watch that tournament every year! I look forward to it, more than the Stanley Cup Playoffs. It’s like watching the Olympics every year, with future stars in the NHL playing each other, with every ounce of their being! I think that is why picks turn out to be able to be predicted, bc of those tournaments
One of the things that should be mentioned is that Goalies can often be found later in the draft so many GMs rather use their high pick on a skater abd try to get value pick with goalies
As a fairly new hockey fan, it's very strange to me that goaltenders aren't valued highly in the draft. It feels counterintuitive that such a vital position doesn't get drafted highly very often. Obviously hockey is very much a team sport, but goalies can absolutely carry teams to wins they might otherwise not get, more so than hoping you simply outscore whatever your net minder gives up. Maybe my view is skewed because Fleury and the Penguins were who I started rooting for in college and so I've seen a very highly drafted goalie put together a HoF resume instead of the failures.
It's because out of all the positions in hockey goalie is the most difficult one to scout. There is a reason why many NHL teams do not have a lot of success in drafting goalies. Plus even when you do pick the right goalie it can take 5 to 7 years for that goalie to eventually be NHL ready whereas with forwards they can be ready to play in 2 to 3 years time.
The draft is too young... Most goalies don't fully develop until they are a little older. It's hard to tell when they are like 18 or 19 if they have the maturity and composure to be a great goalie.
The failure rate or goalie prospects is high. Not mentioned in this video, but relevant to Tukka Rask is a fun fact. The reason Toronto didn't want to wait for Rask was that he was behind another prospect in the depth chart,Justin Poggy. They needed a bridge until Poggy was ready to take the league by storm and the rask kid was looking dispoable. If we had time machines right?
They're very hard to scout, and even harder to develop. Goaltender development takes longer, sometimes they won't be an NHL starter for 5 years! A great development team can turn a bad goalie, into a good goalie... A bad development team can turn a phenomenon, into a bad goalie, just a very delicate process to developing the player into an NHL starter.
What you said about GMs possibly losing their jobs may be why Yzerman will be the guy to pick Wallstedt. He's done so well so far and is so beloved that it won't cost him his job.
It’s definitely worth the risk of taking a goaltender in the first round after pick 10 or in a year where there isn’t any players that your team wants in a weak draft
As a Hawks fan we drafted this kid from the USNTD, Drew Commesso. I like the fact we went after goaltending, but I really wanted that Spencer Knight kid Florida picked at 13. Wallstedt I feel the same way about. If you got a chance at the next franchise goaltender, you do it. I am in no way comparing Wallstedt or Knight to Carey Price but it is a fact that he is keeping this a series. Yeah Caufield, Suzuki, and Perry and the Bunch all are contributing forces. But you cant tell me Price is what is winning them games in these playoffs. And with that said, I would like for the Hawks to luck out and have Wallstedt drop in the draft. Unlikely as it would be, it would be a great addition to a young Hawks core. Dach, Debrincat, Boqvist, Wallstedt. Whenever I do GM modes I make sure I have, #1 center, #1 D man, Above avg to elite goaltender, an elite winger. That is the makings of a core.
@@commandershepard1838 Quick is not a “decent goalie” he was one of the league’s best from 2011-2018, and his 2012 run is ARGUABLY the greatest a goalie has ever performed in the postseason.
Poon King I didn’t call quick decent. He also wasn’t a first round pick. I referred to quick showing that LA built the better team in front of him and price still hasn’t won, because a lot of cap space if devoted to him and for the fact that the franchise used the third pick on a goalie rather than a skater.
Would be interesting to also look at goalies taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds the past 15 years or so, and see how often they pan out in comparison to the 1st rounders.
That draft was a major wash up anyways. It’s all hindsight. Yakupov was consensus #1 at the time. I remember when there were talks if Edmonton would take Ryan Murray with pick #1 and that would’ve been a bad pick as well, just to show how comical that draft was
I think that's a good choice too, but they might be able to trade back a little bit and still get him. If they can't trade back then just take him at 6 like they did with Seider
I think the surviving playoff teams are very happy with their first round goalies. As you note, like a first line center. I'd say coaching, scouting and measurement are more sophisticated now.
See, when I think of drafting Goalies in the first round.. I remember Buffalo taking a HS kid 5th overall in 1983... some kid by the name of Tom Barrasso... That appears to have worked out pretty good.. He only won the Calder and vezina in his rookie season of 83/84 and later 2 cups with Pittsburgh.,.. not bad for a kid fresh out of HS when he got the starting role... and the Sabres were a decent franchise at that time.. (not like now)
Don't forget Chet Pickard. Nashville traded their original pick to Ottawa for that pick (3 picks down). Ottawa's pick...Erik Karlsson. The trick with goalie's is that it's tough to judge how they will perfom at the NHL-level at ages 17 and 18. Not to mention how long it takes to develop a goalie. A team wants their 1st RD pick to be a full-time player in 1-2 years. Most goalies take 3-5 years before they even make their NHL debut, so, why potentially pass up players that can produce relatively sooner when you can just draft a goalie in the later rounds as a long-term investment.
On a sidenote I think he would make a great color commentator, honestly with what you can add to it with you or even had a demeanor and knowledge of the game would be awesome to listen to you. Although not for my team to savers because Rick Generette is literally the best I swear that guy is on pills when he gets excited
I’d love to see him in color commentating but I think his role would be best as an analyst or having his own segment. But if that never happens, I’m more than happy with his quality TH-cam content
Great video....kills me about attitude towards goalies in round one...most important position on team....if there was a center rated as top forward in last 5 years everyone would be talking about generational player.....think Yzerman will take Wallsdatd at #6....If Sabres got #3 (Ana) or #5 (Col) I hope they take him
I think teams sometimes develop goalies too long and as a result, some miss the boat all together because they get lost in a goalie log jam. There's not as many goalie jobs either which is another goalie killer.
As a Luleå native who watched all of Wallsted's games. When he's hot he is one of the best goalies i've seen in SHL since Markstrom, Fast or Gustavsson. But he, and Luleå's game really dropped second half of last season, and when he was cold his positioning was way off, and he made himself look small in net, it looked like anything could go in. Lassinantti who is just 5´9" looked bigger in net.
Tough to see them moving to far up in the draft if at all. They do hold two 2nd rd picks, 37 and 43. Good picks in the 2nd. But they arent getting Wallstedt. He is top 8 pick and if he falls further than that. I could see a team like Chicago, who have the 12th overall pick, prospects, and 2 2nd rd picks, one in the top 45 and and one late (VGK). They could move up a few spots and snag Wallstedt if they wanted to trade away some draft capital. They also have two 4th rd picks. Now Sebastian Cossa could still be avaliable but he could get looks late in the 1st rd. Big, Athletic goalie. He is already 6’6 210 with some impressive stats. He could fall or rise depending on teams needs. I would look at him if I were a team like Az. But they might have to be content with staying put because they already lost a lot via trades, Hall, and Forfitier.
Michigan is the problem with the Covid Draft! That team is way too stacked, to judge anyone ready for the NHL. That team is just solid, enough that you’d be good on it, too! I am baffled, that everyone has Michigan getting “their whole team” drafted in the 1st Round. It’s bc of Powers and Matty, that most scouts watched. They don’t know the European or World leagues right now, bc locked dahn!! I think we will see SOO many surprise 4th and 5th round players, being better than most UofM players.
From 2007 and 2014, only one #1 goalie was drafted. The “don’t pick a goalie in first round” comes from there. No disrespect to Campbell, but this the first year he show something. We will need to see a bigger simple size. A lot of goalies were good during one year
You see fewer goalies taken in the early part of the first round because those GMs need immediate return on their picks. The playoff teams’ GMs , who feel more secure in their jobs, can pick a player who needs time to Develope
This is a good look. Of the 15 guys on this list, 4 were clear misses (not counting Subban), and the jury is still out on Askarov, Knight, and Oettinger. That’s a pretty good hit rate given that most of these guys were drafted late in the 1st round and none of them in the top 10. I think what has team worried is that even among a lot of the success stories - and not just 1st round guys - is that the development path for goaltenders is so long that even if the player makes it to the NHL, he may not still be playing with the team who drafted him. Also, would love to see who the top 3 goaltenders are each draft year and doing a retrospective on whether any of these 2nd-3rd round guys should have maybe been taken in the 1st round. THAT would be super interesting, and I’m guessing there’s a big case to be made that goalies as a rule are going 20-40 picks later than they should based on NHL production.
You missed Chet Pickard. First round goalies are usually not a miss but the terrible situation the team has to deal with their netminders. Campbell was in a terrible situation when Stars signed Ben Bishop to a long term contract meanwhile still have Kari Lehtonen so Campbell was wasted in minor. Visentin was the same when Mike Smith was playing for 60+ games per season and also with unstable managements at the time. Bernier was unlucky because the surprise rise of Jon Quick which took away the chance for Bernier to play meaningful games in LA.
As a Stars fan I was pissed when we got rid of Campbell because I knew with the right development he would be a very good starter. Of course this was when Raycroft was the starter and Dallas goaltending was an eight year shitshow. Look at all the goalies that Dallas had those years. And Tim Thomas should have been the starter in 2014
Not a guarantee the Arizona Coyotes don't draft a goalie in first round. A lot of stuff has to happen for such or really a couple rare things. One they need to trade to get a top 32 pick some how and then they have to draft a goalie with that pick. Almost a better chance the Sabres make the playoffs next year. Ok, maybe there is a better chance for that as I like your odds of hitting a 10x or better cash on a scratch ticket over Buffalo making the sweet 16
In my hockey pool I have drafted Hellebyuck, Shesterkin, and Oettinger over the years. That usually means a wait of 2 or 3 years before they see action. You can generally get them easy as people focus on points production. Of course i am a goalie myself so I think I have an eye for the ones with talent. And everyone still believes that old myth that it takes years to develop them. Not so anymore. With the butterfly style it is about size, speed and lateral agility. So goalies are going to best when they are young and have cat like reflexes. Also I look for the ones who make difficult saves look easy. The goalies that flail around a lot are not the ones you are looking for. Solid positional goalies like Price and Hellebyuck are what you want to look for. Experience doesn't factor in much anymore because goalies are trained simply to react. There's no time to think. Some goalies might develop later, but generally their careers will be short at that point. What is the point of waiting until a goalie is 25+ years old to give him a shot? You have wasted half of his best years at that point. Any high draft goalie should be in the league within a year or 2 of being drafted IMO. You don't "ruin" goalies by playing them too soon. You can by overplaying them though, and putting too much team responsibility on the goalie, ala Carter Hart. What separates the great goalies ( or great players of any sport) is how they overcome slumps. This is particularly true for goalies and pitchers for examples, because generally your slumps end up straight on the scoreboard. Price has had his ups and downs but finds ways to get past it. That makes him one of the best IMO. Same with Fleury. It kind of surprises me that NHL teams aren't more aggressive in drafting them, especially considering their importance in today's game. Tuuka Rask is a prime example. That blunder cost the Leafs big time. Probably a cup or two. Thought they were trading for "Experience" in Raycroft and got a flash in the pan goalie instead.
Well in my opinion you should draft the best player available… goalie /d man / Center / winger doesn’t matter, after you could trade that guy for what you need but take the best player
Rask was traded from Toronto for Raycroft as Justin Pogge was suppose to be their future but only played five NHL games- 1 win and 4 losses...Justin Pogge was Canada's Gold Metal goalie at World's Juniors but Rask was voted best Goalie of the tournament.
The only issue I have with Oettinger is how consistently he got lit up in shootout and on breakaways. If he can fix that he'll be very good for years to come
Recent pattern seems to be "You only draft a goalie in the 1st, when you are absolutely sure he's a star goalie". Not too many picks, all hits. In the 2000s looked like there were more trial-and-error moves with about 50/50 success rate.
I'm not sure if this has been suggested but the audio from your videos would be great in podcast form. It's be great to listen without the video. Kind of frustrating that I can't read stats and boxscores, etc while listening.
A lot of chatter in Edmonton about the Oilers potentially drafting Cossa. It makes lots of sense to me, but the question is going to be "will he be there at 19?" Craig Button has him at 25 in his mock draft.
Looking at these goalies it’s just so hard to tell. Like if u get a vasy and have a goalie for the next 10 years u will look like a genius but do u fall short and the goalie don’t work in your town or reaches the ceiling u will lose your job
I want Sabres to take Wallstedt with potential top 10 pick obtained from potential Eichel or Reinhardt trades.....they could walk away with Power, Wallstadt, plus another high end forward prospect on first day of draft....
GM’s should focus on what the team needs, not just skill and development to getting players “NHL-ready”. That said, picking a goalie early isn’t a big deal. If it’s what the team needs. Owners however see players as “assets” and are probably more likely to look at the roster as they would any balance-sheet. Making it a little more difficult in arguing for an early goalie pick.
problem with the stigma changing is the past few years especially goalie UFA markets have been absolutely rich with talent. Are GMs really gonna want to wait so long to develop a goalie in the minors rather than just hoping the right fit finds itself on your team? especially in a position where they probably get paid well below their actual material value. Some GMs sure would draft a goalie, but only if you feel like you're 3 years out of competition. Who would that be? Sharks, Sabers, those are really the only 2 i see being bad and staying bad for a long time
I feel like a lot hinges on Carter Hart. He was basically the best goalie in CHL history. If even he doesn't pan out, how can you be sure of ANY goalie prospect?
I would love to see Wallstedt in Detroit, but I don’t think it’ll happen. Their goalie prospects are going backwards, for the most part, Larsson got blown the fuck up in Denmark. Petruzzelli is the most ready and he’s not close, hasn’t played any pro at all at this point. Maybe Steve will surprise me, I think we need it bad, but it’s probably not happening.
Detroit is primed to take Jesper at #6. No better GM and/or team to go to if you're a goalie than Detroit. He will have all the time he needs to develop. Just makes a ton of sense. Vezina's and Norris' btw him and Seider.
Cossa and Walstedt should be gone by then. Once someone takes Walstedt, Cossa is going to be dived at. I look to Detroit here, it’s about what they do. Either they take Walstedt at 6, or they package their late 1st Rounder this year, and a 2nd rounder in next years, move up with a team that doesn’t need a goalie in the teens. They take Cossa.
@Catharsis no kidding. That's why they should draft a goalie and develop him so they're not in this mess again. If they hadn't given up on Talbot and Brossoit they'd probably be okay.
@@ericarmit232 That would be nice, but put you in cap hell, if he fails. Edmonton’s contracts are going to be growing in the near future. If Edmonton can’t win soon...you’re going to see a mass exodus of those players. Teams like TB, Carolina, Colorado, Vegas, and The Islanders all being teams that a player on Edmonton would want to go to, once their free agents bc they are always competitive, and a chance for them to win a Stanley Cup. If you draft a goalie now, you may lose your star players soon. You need skaters, defense for sure. That could come in tomorrow, and help the cause now.
@@kylejohnson6070 I don't know what player contracts you're talking about that will put them in cap hell? A goalie for the future will not affect their cap either in the short-term. As far as winning that will not happen under this management as per.
Can someone explain how visentin had a 3.06 GAA if he only played 1 game? Like I get if he came in relief once or twice but for the decimal to be as low as .06 he would have had to have come in a lot to only still have 1 game
It’s possible that he was pulled for an empty net (im pretty sure GAA is per 60 minutes, so if he let in 3 goals and was in net for 58 minutes, his GAA would be a bit higher than 3)
When I think of first overall goalies I think about Fleury
And DiPietro
@@DoBap_ what a flop that was! I don’t know what screwed the Islanders worse, his performance or his contract.
@@NycktheDyck That contract without a doubt.
@@NycktheDyck or trading Luongo
@@NycktheDyck from a team perspective, probably performance. At least they were able to bury the contract by putting him on LTIR. What they couldn't get back was their first overall pick, even though 2000 was a pretty weak draft year, there were far better options.
You forgot about Chet Pickard 18th overall in 2008 by Nashville. They kind of rectify that by drafting Anders Lindback in the late 7th round, though. But they moved down three spots to pick him, getting a third round pick from Ottawa so they could pick Erik Karlsson. Never forget.
One thing to note about Campbell, Dallas was bankrupt at the time so didnt even have a AHL goalie coach to help Campbell learn and develop him. I feel like they were hoping he would just be good enough to make it
He's been much better lately, I hope he keeps it up and enjoys being a great starter in the NHL, he's earned it.
It wasn't the same GM that drafted Helenius and Vasilevskiy. Yzerman came in 2010 and his drafting recording is impeccable.
I feel like if there is any draft to "reach" for a goalie, it's this one. Next year will have some can't miss talent and not many goalies with top end potential that could go in the 1st round. I'm just hoping the Wings can get one of Wallstedt or Cossa this draft. I actually am leaning toward Wallstedt and wouldn't mind it at all if they took him at 6th.
Detroit could get another first too. Vancouver needs cap space desperately and if they want to trade Eriksson and Beagle contracts to Detroit (who has like 33 mil in cap space) it could/should cost them a first
@@AkaSilverShroud Another first would be nice, but I'd hate to take on more bloated contracts unless we're buying them out.
@@john_blues they only have one year left on each of them but Vancouver needs money to resign Hughes and Pettersson
2012 was the Year the Oilers drafted Yakupov first overall and the Bolts used their actual 1st round pick to get Slater Koekeke. The only reason they drafted Vassy at all is because the Wings traded them a pick.
Risky business trading first round picks!!
Watched this video during breakfast and almost choked on my cereal when Shannon said "Riku Helenius".
The guy played for my DEL2 hometown team in Germany the past couple of years and I did not have a clue he was drafted 15th overall.
San Jose SHOULD take him but knowing Doug he'll take a forward or reach a little.
I agree he would sadly
The Sharks needs one of those elite goalie prospect. If we could get a goaltender we will be able to keep the core. Go 🦈
Sharks should take Wallstedt, but I think Stevie will take him. If not, we can get Cossa in the second round and get a forward or defenseman at 7.
I could see him taking a chance on Johnson
@@LeylaDerben he's stuck on the latter. With the contacts the Sharks have they literally can't afford to rebuild atm. He should be looking at goaltending but something tells me he's gonna pick something else and sign another stop gap goalie in hopes they can be clutch.
I hope Sebastian Cossa falls to the Oilers and Kenny is smart enough to know he needs to develop an elite goaltender.
Yeah, Smith is old.
Seeing how he handled the Detroit situation...I highly doubt that he is thinking about the future! He’s in it to win it now
i want wallstedt
That would be the dumbest move ever..but then again as a Wings fan I know just how dumb Bonehead Holland can be. EDM in win now mode. They need to draft the most NHL ready players. Drafting goalies that spent years developing is how you get fired.
@@vmi4172 however, this video (Shannon knowing his stuff!) shows that it’s a high probability that some of those goalies are studs, and just come in and play solid within a year or two!
Many of these kids are in adult leagues, or collegiate.
And they are all playing against each other in the World Juniors every winter.
Too be honest, I watch that tournament every year! I look forward to it, more than the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
It’s like watching the Olympics every year, with future stars in the NHL playing each other, with every ounce of their being!
I think that is why picks turn out to be able to be predicted, bc of those tournaments
The pick TBL used to draft Vasi was Detroit's - they used their own pick to draft Koekoek at 10th. The hockey gods work in mysterious ways
One of the things that should be mentioned is that Goalies can often be found later in the draft so many GMs rather use their high pick on a skater abd try to get value pick with goalies
As a fairly new hockey fan, it's very strange to me that goaltenders aren't valued highly in the draft. It feels counterintuitive that such a vital position doesn't get drafted highly very often. Obviously hockey is very much a team sport, but goalies can absolutely carry teams to wins they might otherwise not get, more so than hoping you simply outscore whatever your net minder gives up. Maybe my view is skewed because Fleury and the Penguins were who I started rooting for in college and so I've seen a very highly drafted goalie put together a HoF resume instead of the failures.
It's because out of all the positions in hockey goalie is the most difficult one to scout. There is a reason why many NHL teams do not have a lot of success in drafting goalies. Plus even when you do pick the right goalie it can take 5 to 7 years for that goalie to eventually be NHL ready whereas with forwards they can be ready to play in 2 to 3 years time.
The draft is too young... Most goalies don't fully develop until they are a little older. It's hard to tell when they are like 18 or 19 if they have the maturity and composure to be a great goalie.
The failure rate or goalie prospects is high. Not mentioned in this video, but relevant to Tukka Rask is a fun fact. The reason Toronto didn't want to wait for Rask was that he was behind another prospect in the depth chart,Justin Poggy. They needed a bridge until Poggy was ready to take the league by storm and the rask kid was looking dispoable. If we had time machines right?
They're very hard to scout, and even harder to develop.
Goaltender development takes longer, sometimes they won't be an NHL starter for 5 years! A great development team can turn a bad goalie, into a good goalie... A bad development team can turn a phenomenon, into a bad goalie, just a very delicate process to developing the player into an NHL starter.
As others have said, goaltending is so much harder to scout. Shot quality in juniors and other leagues is not the same as NHL
What you said about GMs possibly losing their jobs may be why Yzerman will be the guy to pick Wallstedt. He's done so well so far and is so beloved that it won't cost him his job.
I'm so curious y Shannon stopped at 2005 instead of going the extra 2 years to see Fleury like huh
He mentions it
@Atheos B. Sapien that doesnt make sense
@Atheos B. Sapien i know but i hate the pens and i would still do it
Yeah exactly! fleury is literally the most relevant 1st round pick goalie to talk about ahahah
@Atheos B. Sapien I'm agreeing that fluery is relevant lol. Calm down
It’s definitely worth the risk of taking a goaltender in the first round after pick 10 or in a year where there isn’t any players that your team wants in a weak draft
As a hawks fan, I'd be really excited to see either of these guys on the team. There are definitely a couple flashy forwards though
This was a solid video! Anytime I think of Leland Irving I always think of NHL 14 and getting him in GM connected on the flames
Just had an idea, do a video on ageing forwards and defenseman who are slowing down and the young players
As a Hawks fan we drafted this kid from the USNTD, Drew Commesso. I like the fact we went after goaltending, but I really wanted that Spencer Knight kid Florida picked at 13.
Wallstedt I feel the same way about. If you got a chance at the next franchise goaltender, you do it.
I am in no way comparing Wallstedt or Knight to Carey Price but it is a fact that he is keeping this a series. Yeah Caufield, Suzuki, and Perry and the Bunch all are contributing forces. But you cant tell me Price is what is winning them games in these playoffs.
And with that said, I would like for the Hawks to luck out and have Wallstedt drop in the draft. Unlikely as it would be, it would be a great addition to a young Hawks core. Dach, Debrincat, Boqvist, Wallstedt.
Whenever I do GM modes I make sure I have, #1 center, #1 D man, Above avg to elite goaltender, an elite winger. That is the makings of a core.
Kinda unfair to keep a clean sheet in your first game just to never get a chance again tbh.
Had you taken a minute to look it up, you'd know it really wasn't unfair.
@@RandomPlaceHolderName
Look what up?
@@midimusicforever The 'clean sheet'.
Yeah he only played 7 minutes. Not even a full period.
@@willfeider2743
So what, should still have been given more chances.
Just for the record the panthers drafted Knight before they signed Bobrovsky, it was within a week so it’s an easy mix up
I really hope Detroit or San Jose drafts the guy. Both need that franchise goalie.
You can always find decent goalies on the market. The team in front needs to be built first. There’s a reason why quick has two cups and price has 0.
@@commandershepard1838 Quick is not a “decent goalie” he was one of the league’s best from 2011-2018, and his 2012 run is ARGUABLY the greatest a goalie has ever performed in the postseason.
Poon King I didn’t call quick decent. He also wasn’t a first round pick. I referred to quick showing that LA built the better team in front of him and price still hasn’t won, because a lot of cap space if devoted to him and for the fact that the franchise used the third pick on a goalie rather than a skater.
@@commandershepard1838 Way easier to find an extra forward or defenseman on the market than a goalie
Would be interesting to also look at goalies taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds the past 15 years or so, and see how often they pan out in comparison to the 1st rounders.
Edmonton could have picked Vasilesky instead of Nail Yakupov...oh to go back in time.
18 players took ahead of Vasilevskiy and only Forsberg has some solid performances, it's safe to say that 17 teams screwed up not just the Oilers.
That draft was a major wash up anyways. It’s all hindsight. Yakupov was consensus #1 at the time. I remember when there were talks if Edmonton would take Ryan Murray with pick #1 and that would’ve been a bad pick as well, just to show how comical that draft was
@@taskdon769 Teravainen? Rielly? Hertl? Those are all at least as good as Forsberg, Rielly is definitely better.
I want the Redwings to take him at 6
I think that's a good choice too, but they might be able to trade back a little bit and still get him. If they can't trade back then just take him at 6 like they did with Seider
shitwings ain't taking anything but losses :D
I'm all for wings taking walstedt at 6. They got nothin in the pipeline
Crazy that all 4 goalies left in the final 4 are all 1st rounders
Chet Pickard also was drafted by the Nashville Predators - round 1 #18 overall in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft.
Impressive analysis. Nice one.
Oh, yeah: Meow.
I think the surviving playoff teams are very happy with their first round goalies. As you note, like a first line center. I'd say coaching, scouting and measurement are more sophisticated now.
still cant imagine someone took askarov before Lundell, just feels insane to me... like nashville too who has juuse
Yeah that was a little wack
Goalies taken in the first round have about the same odds of playing in the NHL as any other positions on the ice.
I really thought Visentin would become a quality starter.
Bad team situation in Arizona and injuries forced him to retire early.
See, when I think of drafting Goalies in the first round.. I remember Buffalo taking a HS kid 5th overall in 1983... some kid by the name of Tom Barrasso... That appears to have worked out pretty good.. He only won the Calder and vezina in his rookie season of 83/84 and later 2 cups with Pittsburgh.,.. not bad for a kid fresh out of HS when he got the starting role... and the Sabres were a decent franchise at that time.. (not like now)
Don't forget Chet Pickard. Nashville traded their original pick to Ottawa for that pick (3 picks down). Ottawa's pick...Erik Karlsson. The trick with goalie's is that it's tough to judge how they will perfom at the NHL-level at ages 17 and 18. Not to mention how long it takes to develop a goalie. A team wants their 1st RD pick to be a full-time player in 1-2 years. Most goalies take 3-5 years before they even make their NHL debut, so, why potentially pass up players that can produce relatively sooner when you can just draft a goalie in the later rounds as a long-term investment.
On a sidenote I think he would make a great color commentator, honestly with what you can add to it with you or even had a demeanor and knowledge of the game would be awesome to listen to you. Although not for my team to savers because Rick Generette is literally the best I swear that guy is on pills when he gets excited
I’d love to see him in color commentating but I think his role would be best as an analyst or having his own segment. But if that never happens, I’m more than happy with his quality TH-cam content
Tuukka with the best stats :)
Great video....kills me about attitude towards goalies in round one...most important position on team....if there was a center rated as top forward in last 5 years everyone would be talking about generational player.....think Yzerman will take Wallsdatd at #6....If Sabres got #3 (Ana) or #5 (Col) I hope they take him
I think teams sometimes develop goalies too long and as a result, some miss the boat all together because they get lost in a goalie log jam. There's not as many goalie jobs either which is another goalie killer.
As a Luleå native who watched all of Wallsted's games. When he's hot he is one of the best goalies i've seen in SHL since Markstrom, Fast or Gustavsson. But he, and Luleå's game really dropped second half of last season, and when he was cold his positioning was way off, and he made himself look small in net, it looked like anything could go in. Lassinantti who is just 5´9" looked bigger in net.
imagine arizona trades into the 1st round and drafts a goaltender
Tough to see them moving to far up in the draft if at all. They do hold two 2nd rd picks, 37 and 43. Good picks in the 2nd. But they arent getting Wallstedt. He is top 8 pick and if he falls further than that. I could see a team like Chicago, who have the 12th overall pick, prospects, and 2 2nd rd picks, one in the top 45 and and one late (VGK). They could move up a few spots and snag Wallstedt if they wanted to trade away some draft capital. They also have two 4th rd picks.
Now Sebastian Cossa could still be avaliable but he could get looks late in the 1st rd. Big, Athletic goalie. He is already 6’6 210 with some impressive stats. He could fall or rise depending on teams needs. I would look at him if I were a team like Az. But they might have to be content with staying put because they already lost a lot via trades, Hall, and Forfitier.
Stevie Y is the wild card of the draft concerning goalie.
No Chet Pickard. 18th overall 2008
I'm not a Fleury fan, but he is good. Likes to be flashy with his saves, but is something else. I would love to see him play live.
I really like Kent Johnson I think he is gonna be a stud out of Michigan
Michigan is the problem with the Covid Draft!
That team is way too stacked, to judge anyone ready for the NHL. That team is just solid, enough that you’d be good on it, too!
I am baffled, that everyone has Michigan getting “their whole team” drafted in the 1st Round.
It’s bc of Powers and Matty, that most scouts watched. They don’t know the European or World leagues right now, bc locked dahn!!
I think we will see SOO many surprise 4th and 5th round players, being better than most UofM players.
From 2007 and 2014, only one #1 goalie was drafted. The “don’t pick a goalie in first round” comes from there. No disrespect to Campbell, but this the first year he show something. We will need to see a bigger simple size. A lot of goalies were good during one year
Vasilevskiy in 2012?
@@benjaminmarsh8948 Yeah but only in the last 5 years he was a starter.
@@zjean3417 Carey Price ?
You see fewer goalies taken in the early part of the first round because those GMs need immediate return on their picks. The playoff teams’ GMs , who feel more secure in their jobs, can pick a player who needs time to Develope
That's the problem. They're not taking the best player available. "More NHL ready" is often the guy who busts.
I think that since 2012 it's definitely changed. We're seeing a lot better prospects for goalies.
This is a good look. Of the 15 guys on this list, 4 were clear misses (not counting Subban), and the jury is still out on Askarov, Knight, and Oettinger. That’s a pretty good hit rate given that most of these guys were drafted late in the 1st round and none of them in the top 10.
I think what has team worried is that even among a lot of the success stories - and not just 1st round guys - is that the development path for goaltenders is so long that even if the player makes it to the NHL, he may not still be playing with the team who drafted him.
Also, would love to see who the top 3 goaltenders are each draft year and doing a retrospective on whether any of these 2nd-3rd round guys should have maybe been taken in the 1st round. THAT would be super interesting, and I’m guessing there’s a big case to be made that goalies as a rule are going 20-40 picks later than they should based on NHL production.
You missed Chet Pickard.
First round goalies are usually not a miss but the terrible situation the team has to deal with their netminders. Campbell was in a terrible situation when Stars signed Ben Bishop to a long term contract meanwhile still have Kari Lehtonen so Campbell was wasted in minor. Visentin was the same when Mike Smith was playing for 60+ games per season and also with unstable managements at the time. Bernier was unlucky because the surprise rise of Jon Quick which took away the chance for Bernier to play meaningful games in LA.
It's all about coaching and development...
We had 2 goalies drafted in 2012
As a Stars fan I was pissed when we got rid of Campbell because I knew with the right development he would be a very good starter. Of course this was when Raycroft was the starter and Dallas goaltending was an eight year shitshow. Look at all the goalies that Dallas had those years. And Tim Thomas should have been the starter in 2014
Not a guarantee the Arizona Coyotes don't draft a goalie in first round. A lot of stuff has to happen for such or really a couple rare things. One they need to trade to get a top 32 pick some how and then they have to draft a goalie with that pick. Almost a better chance the Sabres make the playoffs next year. Ok, maybe there is a better chance for that as I like your odds of hitting a 10x or better cash on a scratch ticket over Buffalo making the sweet 16
In my hockey pool I have drafted Hellebyuck, Shesterkin, and Oettinger over the years. That usually means a wait of 2 or 3 years before they see action. You can generally get them easy as people focus on points production. Of course i am a goalie myself so I think I have an eye for the ones with talent. And everyone still believes that old myth that it takes years to develop them. Not so anymore.
With the butterfly style it is about size, speed and lateral agility. So goalies are going to best when they are young and have cat like reflexes. Also I look for the ones who make difficult saves look easy. The goalies that flail around a lot are not the ones you are looking for. Solid positional goalies like Price and Hellebyuck are what you want to look for. Experience doesn't factor in much anymore because goalies are trained simply to react. There's no time to think. Some goalies might develop later, but generally their careers will be short at that point. What is the point of waiting until a goalie is 25+ years old to give him a shot? You have wasted half of his best years at that point. Any high draft goalie should be in the league within a year or 2 of being drafted IMO. You don't "ruin" goalies by playing them too soon. You can by overplaying them though, and putting too much team responsibility on the goalie, ala Carter Hart. What separates the great goalies ( or great players of any sport) is how they overcome slumps. This is particularly true for goalies and pitchers for examples, because generally your slumps end up straight on the scoreboard. Price has had his ups and downs but finds ways to get past it. That makes him one of the best IMO. Same with Fleury.
It kind of surprises me that NHL teams aren't more aggressive in drafting them, especially considering their importance in today's game. Tuuka Rask is a prime example. That blunder cost the Leafs big time. Probably a cup or two. Thought they were trading for "Experience" in Raycroft and got a flash in the pan goalie instead.
Chicago drafted after Nashville last year
Well in my opinion you should draft the best player available… goalie /d man / Center / winger doesn’t matter, after you could trade that guy for what you need but take the best player
Goalie is the hardest to predict, so much of being a goalie is mental, sometimes self doubt creeps in and can't be overcome.
Rask was traded from Toronto for Raycroft as Justin Pogge was suppose to be their future but only played five NHL games- 1 win and 4 losses...Justin Pogge was Canada's Gold Metal goalie at World's Juniors but Rask was voted best Goalie of the tournament.
The only issue I have with Oettinger is how consistently he got lit up in shootout and on breakaways. If he can fix that he'll be very good for years to come
As an Isles fan that hurt, because the Truth does hurt! :(
DAMN STRAIGHT IT DOES..WE NEVER LEARN...LOL
Recent pattern seems to be "You only draft a goalie in the 1st, when you are absolutely sure he's a star goalie". Not too many picks, all hits.
In the 2000s looked like there were more trial-and-error moves with about 50/50 success rate.
I'm not sure if this has been suggested but the audio from your videos would be great in podcast form. It's be great to listen without the video. Kind of frustrating that I can't read stats and boxscores, etc while listening.
Rask for Raycroft, ouchhhhhhh.....
Congrats on 199k!
A lot of chatter in Edmonton about the Oilers potentially drafting Cossa. It makes lots of sense to me, but the question is going to be "will he be there at 19?" Craig Button has him at 25 in his mock draft.
I almost always draft a goalkeeper in round 1 on ZenGM. It's so important to have reliability in net in that game.
Have they fixed ZenGM hockey at all?
@@RandomPlaceHolderName They've updated it recently. I'm not sure what needed fixing though
Looking at these goalies it’s just so hard to tell. Like if u get a vasy and have a goalie for the next 10 years u will look like a genius but do u fall short and the goalie don’t work in your town or reaches the ceiling u will lose your job
I want Sabres to take Wallstedt with potential top 10 pick obtained from potential Eichel or Reinhardt trades.....they could walk away with Power, Wallstadt, plus another high end forward prospect on first day of draft....
"Rosters change from year to year." To controversial this time, THG, too controversial
In 2008, the pick right after 30 was Jacob markstrom
I know mike didn’t pan out like a number 1 pick but it wasn’t his fault. When healthy he was very good
Remember Pierre McGuire's reaction to Montreal drafting Carey Price? 😂
yep :)
« That’s off the reservation » - Pierre McGuire. That was unintentionally racist
Lundqvist Rangers not mentioned.?
I want the Avs to pull the trigger on one
visentin was plagued by injuries idk if that should count as a miss
Depends on how well the team develops goalies.. If Nashville drafts a goalie 11th overall, I'd say they know what they're doing.
Cossa to the Oilers, please
My team drafted two goalies at number 1 dp and lungo
A few days before the 2024 season officially begins you should update this considering Swayman signed his contract 😄😄
i would like to see buffalo get another top 10 pick and then see them draft powers and then pick up a goalie
GM’s should focus on what the team needs, not just skill and development to getting players “NHL-ready”. That said, picking a goalie early isn’t a big deal. If it’s what the team needs. Owners however see players as “assets” and are probably more likely to look at the roster as they would any balance-sheet. Making it a little more difficult in arguing for an early goalie pick.
problem with the stigma changing is the past few years especially goalie UFA markets have been absolutely rich with talent. Are GMs really gonna want to wait so long to develop a goalie in the minors rather than just hoping the right fit finds itself on your team? especially in a position where they probably get paid well below their actual material value. Some GMs sure would draft a goalie, but only if you feel like you're 3 years out of competition. Who would that be? Sharks, Sabers, those are really the only 2 i see being bad and staying bad for a long time
Chet Pickard 2008 18th played no games
Sharks should definitely draft a goaltender in the 1st round
I feel like a lot hinges on Carter Hart. He was basically the best goalie in CHL history. If even he doesn't pan out, how can you be sure of ANY goalie prospect?
Why do these few games over 900 save percentage goalies not get more chances? I don't get it.
Should start kidnapping the right players...lol 😆
I would love to see Wallstedt in Detroit, but I don’t think it’ll happen. Their goalie prospects are going backwards, for the most part, Larsson got blown the fuck up in Denmark. Petruzzelli is the most ready and he’s not close, hasn’t played any pro at all at this point.
Maybe Steve will surprise me, I think we need it bad, but it’s probably not happening.
I wonder if stevie y will draft a goalie in the first round this year with one of his two first round picks
I could definitely see us drafting Cossa with #22 if he's still available. I kinda hope that happens
@@tomchamberlain4329 not too familiar with the prospects but id be very happy if he drafts us a good goalie
Detroit is primed to take Jesper at #6. No better GM and/or team to go to if you're a goalie than Detroit. He will have all the time he needs to develop. Just makes a ton of sense. Vezina's and Norris' btw him and Seider.
Edmonton should have drafted a goalie in the first round years ago. Maybe this year?
Cossa and Walstedt should be gone by then. Once someone takes Walstedt, Cossa is going to be dived at.
I look to Detroit here, it’s about what they do. Either they take Walstedt at 6, or they package their late 1st Rounder this year, and a 2nd rounder in next years, move up with a team that doesn’t need a goalie in the teens. They take Cossa.
@Catharsis no kidding. That's why they should draft a goalie and develop him so they're not in this mess again. If they hadn't given up on Talbot and Brossoit they'd probably be okay.
@@ericarmit232 That would be nice, but put you in cap hell, if he fails. Edmonton’s contracts are going to be growing in the near future.
If Edmonton can’t win soon...you’re going to see a mass exodus of those players. Teams like TB, Carolina, Colorado, Vegas, and The Islanders all being teams that a player on Edmonton would want to go to, once their free agents bc they are always competitive, and a chance for them to win a Stanley Cup.
If you draft a goalie now, you may lose your star players soon. You need skaters, defense for sure. That could come in tomorrow, and help the cause now.
@@kylejohnson6070 I don't know what player contracts you're talking about that will put them in cap hell? A goalie for the future will not affect their cap either in the short-term. As far as winning that will not happen under this management as per.
@Catharsis fair enough but those are two of the many good players Oilers have given up on too quickly bcs they are so poorly managed.
saying not to take a goalie in round 1 because of rick DiPietro is like saying not to take a forward cause of nail yakupov
If Buffalo drafts him at 1st and he becomes the next Hasek I’d be perfectly fine with that
As Red Wings fan I want to thank Washington for our next franchise goalie
Yeah I'm hoping for Cossa at 22
Can someone explain how visentin had a 3.06 GAA if he only played 1 game? Like I get if he came in relief once or twice but for the decimal to be as low as .06 he would have had to have come in a lot to only still have 1 game
It’s possible that he was pulled for an empty net (im pretty sure GAA is per 60 minutes, so if he let in 3 goals and was in net for 58 minutes, his GAA would be a bit higher than 3)
The problem with drafting goalies is you only need one starter so it's always going to be hit or miss.
The Penguins traded for that pick too.
Oettenger in Dallas is aging well.
If you made this video and I already had known you were in my hockey pool, then I would suspect you were trying to leave for yourself Vitek Vanacek.
Comon wings. Wallstedt for the 6th overal.
I would be elated if Buffalo pulled off a trade with Chicago for Eichel and grabbed Wallstedt at #11.