Thanks. What I like about your videos is that you talk about certain details a specific experience you have had with shoes with that others really do not. I hope when you reach 100K subscribers and free shoes, you will continue to do the same thing. Question: Between Metaspeed Sky and Edge (Paris) which one would you use for workouts and which one for your race?
Thank you for the kind words. I have not run in the metaspeed sky Paris so I cannot say for certain. I do favor low plate configuration for speed day and high plate for marathon pace (alphafly) USUALLY . I just ran in the endorphin elite v1 and that is low plate and firm but somehow brilliant for racing .
As Andrea alluded to, foot strike has a lot to do with how we will perceive this shoe. However I do think Saucony did tune the 4 line more towards the masses, given the wide reception of its previous EP3 and ES3. Because of its popularity they definitely built up stability elements in the 4’s compared to the previous versions (ES4 winged plate) and widened the heels noticeably for heel strikers (again for mass adoption), this made the ES4 a much better daily trainer imo. Where there is a dual benefit by firming up the foam and ride aiding stability, that also aids in picking up the pace in the shorter distances with a more direct feeling ride. Another telltale sign in their motivation was the added weight in both speed and the pro, which would not be the case if chasing performance was the main goal. Lastly, the uppers and lockdown have been relaxed considerably to accommodate more foot types (a la masses), if speed was the main goal this wouldn’t happen. The way I see it, forefoot/midfoot strike, because of the firmer foam, you’ll be more aware of the plates geometry, lending to an aggressive feeling stance (even though geometry wise it’s pretty standard for a low plate configuration), and firmness in shorter distances is more preferable to me. But there is the unnecessary amount of heel and added weight back there for true 5k/10k racing. Any faster speed shoe in the market does away with that. For $225 it’s a great shoe, it’s plenty quick and capable. But if you want a focused racer, and forefoot/midfoot strike there are options out there without the unnecessary accommodating and supportive elements tacked on with a svelter upper. But we’re talking about at the limit where seconds matter. As a marathon racer, I think the EP4 would work well for heavier people and heel strikers because the foam will hold up and the shoe will stabilize and roll you through. It’s not the squishiest/comfiest ride but it does have more bounce and assistance than non carbon shoes. So I’m more aligned with Yowana on this, basically 😅 I think the Elite was the most focused race option for Saucony, and the others more democratic. But the Elite 2 seems way different, Saucony like a bunch to others brands seem to always be playing musical chairs with their lineup.
This is likely the most insightful comment that anyone has left on the channel. 🔥 I agree with all of it and think you should consider creating a channel to review shoes. I have heard from a couple of runners who ran in elite 1 and 2. They said 2 is good but the increased softness of the ride does impact the ride and they still prefer v1. I can't wait to try them out
I have a similar reaction to the UA Velociti Elite 2. Feels great to walk around in but deep into marathon training it's just not soft enough and doesn't roll through like many of my other supershoes. The plate feels hard and isn't flexing like I need. Glad I heard this about the EP4 though as the Saucony EP3 was my do it all shoe and has 750k's on it and ready for replacement so will probably just get another rather than upgrading.
There seems to be a dichotomy between runners who perceive v4 as firmer than v3 and vice versa. I wore v3 for my 18:00 PR marathon in ‘23 (some of which is obviously attributable to other factors including nutrition, weather, and training). Then I picked up v4 for last spring’s marathon and just comparing how it worked with my biomechanics and trying to put aside other variables on race day, it felt like a less efficient shoe for me-5’3”, 102 lbs with a shorter stride, midfoot strike and fast cadence. So I bought up 2 of the last pairs made of v3 on sale for my upcoming marathons. As far as I can ascertain, v3 for me at least is indeed a marathon shoe. I haven’t tried all the candidates but I fear the Edge Paris (which impressed me when I tried it along with the Sky) or anything else that’s more aggressive might not be as comfortable for marathon distance. Open to suggestions though I’m set for the 24/25 season I guess.
Find what works and stick with it!! I ran every marathon in the alphafly 1 until this year when I ran marine corp in the Puma shoe. It’s hard to get away from what works . I agree with you that going for more aggressive means you sacrifice the comfort and also require precision on running form while fatigued late in the race
Interesting... The two things I think work SO well in this shoe are the combo of foams AND the stiffness of the plate. PWRRUN HG is the game changer in this shoe to me, it gives the shoe it's performance. The Speedroll tech is finicky though. I find that this shoe (and the ES4) don't work well for me for faster paces, like under 10k pace. The Speedrool tech just "gets in the way" and it feels like the shoe can't keep up with my cadence (which for under 10k efforts can get well over 200spm). However, for marathon pace the geometry is perfect and locks me into that and keeps me rolling along, especially in the stiffer EP4. Neither are reall all-rounder workout shoes for me, but for a marathon build they compliment each other well for the paces needed there. I don't have a reviewer that I agree with all the time anymore. I do have multiple reviewers that I know if they like the shoe I won't at all, which is often more useful to rule shoes out for me.
Fascinating! I would love for you to go back and try to the endo pro 3 and compare the two. Because what you describe is what I felt EXACTLY in the 3. I tried some threshold and faster but the speed roll got in the way. When I did MP, I was locked in and it was if the shoe was running for me. The endorphin elite has that same mechanical but more aggressive push and roll through that Pro 3 had. I love it . Have you tried the endorphin elite yet ? I got for 100 off or else I probably would never have bought it
@@MidLifeRunner I tried the EP3 on, when I bought the EP4, and found it WAY too soft for what I was expecting. I’m glad I avoided it. I also tried on the EE, that extreme Metaspeed Sky+ forefoot rocker was a HARD pass for me. However, next year…. I’m considering cover the EE2. I’ve held that shoe in my hand and it’s ridiculously soft… like so soft I cannot understand how it can work… but have been told it does. I’m intrigued.
@@SagasuRunning awesome. Yeah I’ve heard from two people who love the 1 and like the 2, but prefer the 1 over the 2. I am super intrigued but feel like we are going to run into AF3 sweepstakes again
I raced in the 3's and just got the 4's for Chicago. I broke them in last week and love them more than the 3's. More room in the toebox. Nice pop, too.
Great video! Didn't get the EP4 as I'm still lovin the EP3 and got a second pair on a heavy discount. I find that Meghan (BITR) and Aubrey (Aubrey Running) are the ones that I gravitate to the most when it comes to what they like/dislike... so I think the new Adidas Adios Pro 4 and Evo SL would be the next pickups!
To each their own. I have the Pro 2, Pro 3, and Pro 4, and to me the Pro 4 is definitely the softest / most comfortable. Absolutely my favorite long run shoe. Hard decision this week to pick what shoe is going to be my Chicago marathon shoe. I plan to run 2 track miles at marathon pace in each of my top 3 finalists (Pro 4, Alpha 3, Alpha 1) and see if a noticeable difference in Power output. If not a difference, I'll pick the Pro 4, but otherwise I'll pick the winning Alpha.
@@dan-312 sweet! Let me know which one you go with. My three options I’m debating are the alphafly 3, endorphin elite and mizuno wave rebellion pro 2. This will be my first marathon NOT wearing the AF1, which to me is still the GOAT. For my stride and weight, I notice a slightly better output in the AF1.
To me, this is one of the most comfortable shows I tried for a long time, and, it’s fast. I’m a for-foot striker and a cadence runner, weighing in around 192 pounds. The shoe is very versatile, I use it for tempo and speed sessions, races above 10k etc. For 5k to 10k distances, I favour the Metaspeed Paris Edge, but the Edge is to narrow for doing long hauls, for me. I have the ES4 which I find obsolete due to how great the Pro4 works. I can’t get near the turnover in the ES4 as I can in the Pro4. Add to this the ES4 is not as comfortable as the Pro4. Wish I had bought two pairs of Pro4 instead of one of each.
Great feedback, especially on the speed 4. I have been using the MSE Paris for speed because it’s lighter and I would agree on the long haul. I did 10 plus miles at Mp in the edge Paris and I hesitate to go 26.2 in them. The endo pro is wider and more stable .
@@MidLifeRunner The longest I have pushed the MSE, is about 15k and that was for sure my limit. Would like to do more, because they are super fast, but no. Yep, the MSE is hands down the most unstable show I have ever tried. Just walking to the starting line feels awkward. Even old style cobble surface in the cities are enough to make me pay extra extra extra attention when in the MSE which can slow the pace a bit. Did a plus 10k race this Sunday in the Pro4 with paved road, gravel surface, a bit of grass trail and three hill-sprints on the route… they are super stable and entails a lot of confidence, which makes it easier to push the envelope in some conditions.
I took the ES4 as my choice for my first marathon this summer. It was a hot day with 28°C with no wind an bearly any shade on a hilly course (Stockholm). And after 4 hours my feet and legs felt fine (well as fine as they can after a marathon...). But as an avid toe-runner even in lower speed i rly like the shoe! For me with my style and footplacement this shoe works for all paces marathon and up 👌
Now I'm really hesitating whether to pick up a pair or not of the Pro4. I like Pro 3. Would you say that it's much firmer than Pro 3? Big fan of your channel and hope you will get more subscribers! I am an average runner and appreciate the style and vibe of your reviews besides being concise and informative. Keep up the great work!
Not sure if it’s plate placement or what but this feels slightly softer than the EP3. Raced 3 marathons in the 3’s, have yet to race the 4 (but will in 2 weeks!)… for me the upper and overall fit is so much better than the 3’s that I’m already calling it a winner. The 3’s ran small for me and the 4 just dialed in where it should be.
I have both and have raced them. The Pro4 is softer than the Pro3 for sure. Also, it’s wider and, to me, has a waaaay more comfortable fit than the Pro3. Love the Pro4. Only minus, is the lazes which is too elastic, but that’s an easy fix. Think it’s one of the best shows to come out of Saucony in a while. I have put more than 200k on them since the 23th of June in a six shoe rotation.
This shoe is really slow for me and beats up my legs. I can actually run faster 5k times with the Speed 4 and it’s not even close to my fastest shoe. Both of the Metaspeed Paris shoes are much faster. I liked the Pro 2 even though it was really firm and the Pro 3 was my favorite. I only have 12 miles on this so maybe I just need to break it in but I dislike it so much I don’t want to put any more miles on it.
@@MS33496 I understand. I have some 10k and 5k reps at the track tomorrow in my peak week. My legs are generally toast and I can’t imagine taking these shoes out tomorrow. I need something a bit softer or with more protection
I was so looking forward to this shoe when it launched. But, sadly, when I finally got to try it on for more than a couple of runs, I realized it didn't work for me as well as the previous iteration did.
@@amircastilla07 alphafly 1 for sure. The Paris series is super light and nimble, but I worry how they will respond at mile 20 if my form breaks down. Shoes like AF1 and endorphin elite really just lock me in and never let me go 🤣 to be quite dramatic about it
Chose Endo Pro 4, over Adidas AA Pro 3 as my marathon shoe. This will work for me as I'm slow with a big "S". A couple weeks later, I obtained the Adidas in the tragic black spark colorway, (thanks a million Stock X). Now I'm tossed up again, I do like the Saucony shoe. To my surprise, the Pro 3's are a softer shoe. Mine aren't broken in yet so they feel like bricks. But if they turn out to work better for me, I'm not sure which shoe I'll use in the Palm Beaches Marathon.
@@PatrickAllison I’ve got 250 miles in my Adios pro 3 and have been using them a lot in this training block. As long as the upper doesn’t cut off any of your toes, I would lean to that. But everyone is different
So it wasnt just me who thought the shoe becomes dull and firm when running too slow... For me the pro 4 is more a super trainer than a race shoe. I own the elite v1 aswell and its not bouncy at all, I think so aswell. Theory 2 seems the case, the pwrrun hg foam makes it firm and less bouncy. Its also a huge junk of pwrrun hg not only a small layer, especially in the forefoot. Its also a totally forgetable ride... Im not wearing it for 2 tweeks and I have no idea how it felt. A great shoe but... Uhm in sale its great.
Spot on. I originally put it in my super trainer type of category in my rotation. I have since moved it to 10k race day option as well. It’s hard to beat the light weight of the metaspeed edge Paris but the EP4 is pretty aggressive as spicy threshold paces . Thanks for the input . Theory 2 it is
I wanted to like this shoe but couldn’t get past the bad heel fit. The elites fit and worked a lot better for me. They feel like Showtime Rotisserie, aka “set it and forget it”, aka cruise control at hm/mp. I relate to David (DoR) and Andy’s (FOD Runner) shoe opinions the most.
Ive ran a marathon in the pro4. The speed roll is the best thing about the shoe and it doesnt bottom out at 20 plus miles. I do find the adidas pro 3 feels a bit faster but less stable. So im opposite to you
It’s awesome how shoes can work for some and not for others. I’m glad the speed roll worked for you. It works in all their other shoes for me. The speed 3 bottomed out a little bit up front at higher speeds but heel to toe was nice. Same with pro 3. Did you run in the third version?
@MidLifeRunner No I never got the saucony pro 3 as at the time I had the speed 3 and really didn't rate that shoe tbh. The pro 4 was a bit of a panic buy for my marathon as I found late in training that the adidas pro 3 wasn't the one for the race. First run was 21 miles and felt really good and made the cut. 😆
Yess!!! But no. Lol This is my race day shoe (two weeks to go!)… so evidently we have different um legs?? Feet? Hips?! So, I’m curious, Andrew, which does the EP4 compare to Metaspeed shoes? I’m super interested in those as potential race shoe for next year….
The EP4 is “more shoe”- wider, bigger heel, more stable. I like the metaspeed super shoe for workouts and race day up to half marathon but I don’t have the nuts to take them the marathon distance
Interesting. I havent tried the endo 4 yet but I saw your boy yowana sayin its great for slow marathoners that expect to be running 4 hours or more. I did/do like the endo 3 but i will say i was iffy on it for the first 50 or 60 miles. I remember thinking it was way too firm and couldn't figure out how every review said it was soft and responsive. For reference im 6'2" 212-215#. If it took that long for me to break in. Im perplexed that 130# shoetubers were breaking it in right out the box🤷. All that to say is you're bang on with everyone needs to find a reviewer that has a higher batting average that lines up with confirmed hits for yourself. Unfortunately im all over the map and havent found my shayam yet (but andrew is close lol🍻)
Thanks for the feedback Nick! The endo pro 3 also was a bit perplexing when I got it 1 year after everyone else and they all said it was soft, but then it wasn’t. And I realized it was softer than v1 and then I did Mp efforts and I could feel that speed roll technology and I began to understand the shoe better . It’s the same with the endorphin elite. It seems like a roller more than a forefoot fast-strike shoe, to me anyway. The 4 has a solid heel bt the roll through feels disconnected
🤣 I’ll have to watch it. To DiCaprio’s credit. He has gotten much better in the last 25 years. He used to just hide behind A list directors , 100 million dollar budgets and an accent but even since Inception he’s really grown
Yes. I was using it as a marathon shoe or tempo. Once I started using it as a 10k option, I saw it as a racer. While I wouldn’t reach for it first, I do think it is race worthy for 5k to 10k
Yeah I'm the opposite of you. This works great for half and marathon pace because it's not too bouncy and the roll is smooth. I'm team Matt not Andrea. You spreading miss information bro 😂
🤣 he ONLY collabs with A list directors with 100 million dollar budgets. To his credit, he doesn’t hide behind a forced accent as much as he did 20 years ago. He’s gotten really good the last decade
Shoetubers should list their paces, weight, and cadence to make it easier to compare what they feel in a shoe to that of other people. Yes, that was a run-on sentence.
@@MidLifeRunner is a trendsetter. I'm 6'0", 175 lbs, with a lower (165ish) cadence and midfoot strike. This is why making shoe decisions based on reviews is so challenging. I'm taking a forced layoff from running for the next few months anyway. Rotator cuff surgery from a jits injury. There will be a lot of walking in my future.
@@MidLifeRunner to add I am an average runner and high end super shoes don’t work so well with my slow marathon pace. I have ordered this shoe as have been told it’s better at a slower pace “5 min per km my pace” thanks for the review
My first visit to your channel, really enjoyed it! Off to hit the subscribe button... Oh, in terms of shoetubers who tend to vibe with me the most, probably Robbe @BItR, Edd Bud, and Run4Adventure.
Thanks. What I like about your videos is that you talk about certain details a specific experience you have had with shoes with that others really do not. I hope when you reach 100K subscribers and free shoes, you will continue to do the same thing. Question: Between Metaspeed Sky and Edge (Paris) which one would you use for workouts and which one for your race?
Thank you for the kind words. I have not run in the metaspeed sky Paris so I cannot say for certain. I do favor low plate configuration for speed day and high plate for marathon pace (alphafly) USUALLY . I just ran in the endorphin elite v1 and that is low plate and firm but somehow brilliant for racing .
I have trained for the past two months in this shoe, and I have completely loved it.
@@AlejandroGarcia-i2t very solid. 💪🏼 will be using it a lot in my half marathon build November and December
Please continue to sit into every shot because after you pointed it out I giggle every time. 😂
😂😂😂
@@infernaltim 🫡
At some point there’s going to be a blooper that exists of him falling off the chair.😂
@@shannonsides6017 I may have edited that out . Jk you know I would keep it
Thanks for holding the virtual shoe on your hand. It helped a lot visualizing it there. 👍🏼🤣😂. Great review Andrew
@@LuisBecerra79 thanks Luis. Some guy commented that I yap. But really I like to yap with my hands. That’s when I’m at my best
My man comin in with a “look at all my super shoes” flex!!! Nice review!!
@@justjared82 humility is not my strength. Neither is my upper body my strength
As Andrea alluded to, foot strike has a lot to do with how we will perceive this shoe. However I do think Saucony did tune the 4 line more towards the masses, given the wide reception of its previous EP3 and ES3. Because of its popularity they definitely built up stability elements in the 4’s compared to the previous versions (ES4 winged plate) and widened the heels noticeably for heel strikers (again for mass adoption), this made the ES4 a much better daily trainer imo. Where there is a dual benefit by firming up the foam and ride aiding stability, that also aids in picking up the pace in the shorter distances with a more direct feeling ride. Another telltale sign in their motivation was the added weight in both speed and the pro, which would not be the case if chasing performance was the main goal. Lastly, the uppers and lockdown have been relaxed considerably to accommodate more foot types (a la masses), if speed was the main goal this wouldn’t happen.
The way I see it, forefoot/midfoot strike, because of the firmer foam, you’ll be more aware of the plates geometry, lending to an aggressive feeling stance (even though geometry wise it’s pretty standard for a low plate configuration), and firmness in shorter distances is more preferable to me. But there is the unnecessary amount of heel and added weight back there for true 5k/10k racing. Any faster speed shoe in the market does away with that. For $225 it’s a great shoe, it’s plenty quick and capable. But if you want a focused racer, and forefoot/midfoot strike there are options out there without the unnecessary accommodating and supportive elements tacked on with a svelter upper. But we’re talking about at the limit where seconds matter. As a marathon racer, I think the EP4 would work well for heavier people and heel strikers because the foam will hold up and the shoe will stabilize and roll you through. It’s not the squishiest/comfiest ride but it does have more bounce and assistance than non carbon shoes. So I’m more aligned with Yowana on this, basically 😅
I think the Elite was the most focused race option for Saucony, and the others more democratic. But the Elite 2 seems way different, Saucony like a bunch to others brands seem to always be playing musical chairs with their lineup.
It makes me sad when subsequent iterations of shoes become more stable….novablast, prime X, are the first that come to mind.
This is likely the most insightful comment that anyone has left on the channel. 🔥 I agree with all of it and think you should consider creating a channel to review shoes.
I have heard from a couple of runners who ran in elite 1 and 2. They said 2 is good but the increased softness of the ride does impact the ride and they still prefer v1. I can't wait to try them out
I have a similar reaction to the UA Velociti Elite 2. Feels great to walk around in but deep into marathon training it's just not soft enough and doesn't roll through like many of my other supershoes. The plate feels hard and isn't flexing like I need. Glad I heard this about the EP4 though as the Saucony EP3 was my do it all shoe and has 750k's on it and ready for replacement so will probably just get another rather than upgrading.
Yeah given the choice of a 4 or 3 I would get another pair of 3s
There seems to be a dichotomy between runners who perceive v4 as firmer than v3 and vice versa. I wore v3 for my 18:00 PR marathon in ‘23 (some of which is obviously attributable to other factors including nutrition, weather, and training). Then I picked up v4 for last spring’s marathon and just comparing how it worked with my biomechanics and trying to put aside other variables on race day, it felt like a less efficient shoe for me-5’3”, 102 lbs with a shorter stride, midfoot strike and fast cadence. So I bought up 2 of the last pairs made of v3 on sale for my upcoming marathons. As far as I can ascertain, v3 for me at least is indeed a marathon shoe. I haven’t tried all the candidates but I fear the Edge Paris (which impressed me when I tried it along with the Sky) or anything else that’s more aggressive might not be as comfortable for marathon distance. Open to suggestions though I’m set for the 24/25 season I guess.
Find what works and stick with it!! I ran every marathon in the alphafly 1 until this year when I ran marine corp in the Puma shoe. It’s hard to get away from what works .
I agree with you that going for more aggressive means you sacrifice the comfort and also require precision on running form while fatigued late in the race
Interesting... The two things I think work SO well in this shoe are the combo of foams AND the stiffness of the plate. PWRRUN HG is the game changer in this shoe to me, it gives the shoe it's performance. The Speedroll tech is finicky though. I find that this shoe (and the ES4) don't work well for me for faster paces, like under 10k pace. The Speedrool tech just "gets in the way" and it feels like the shoe can't keep up with my cadence (which for under 10k efforts can get well over 200spm). However, for marathon pace the geometry is perfect and locks me into that and keeps me rolling along, especially in the stiffer EP4. Neither are reall all-rounder workout shoes for me, but for a marathon build they compliment each other well for the paces needed there.
I don't have a reviewer that I agree with all the time anymore. I do have multiple reviewers that I know if they like the shoe I won't at all, which is often more useful to rule shoes out for me.
Fascinating! I would love for you to go back and try to the endo pro 3 and compare the two. Because what you describe is what I felt EXACTLY in the 3. I tried some threshold and faster but the speed roll got in the way. When I did MP, I was locked in and it was if the shoe was running for me. The endorphin elite has that same mechanical but more aggressive push and roll through that Pro 3 had. I love it . Have you tried the endorphin elite yet ? I got for 100 off or else I probably would never have bought it
@@MidLifeRunner I tried the EP3 on, when I bought the EP4, and found it WAY too soft for what I was expecting. I’m glad I avoided it.
I also tried on the EE, that extreme Metaspeed Sky+ forefoot rocker was a HARD pass for me. However, next year…. I’m considering cover the EE2. I’ve held that shoe in my hand and it’s ridiculously soft… like so soft I cannot understand how it can work… but have been told it does. I’m intrigued.
@@SagasuRunning awesome. Yeah I’ve heard from two people who love the 1 and like the 2, but prefer the 1 over the 2. I am super intrigued but feel like we are going to run into AF3 sweepstakes again
@@MidLifeRunner Ugh…. With Saucony though it’s less hunger marketing and more not having the budget for good distribution…
I raced in the 3's and just got the 4's for Chicago. I broke them in last week and love them more than the 3's. More room in the toebox. Nice pop, too.
Killer pop and the upper is roomier for sure. Good luck in Chicago ! Go get it!
Great video! Didn't get the EP4 as I'm still lovin the EP3 and got a second pair on a heavy discount. I find that Meghan (BITR) and Aubrey (Aubrey Running) are the ones that I gravitate to the most when it comes to what they like/dislike... so I think the new Adidas Adios Pro 4 and Evo SL would be the next pickups!
I can’t wait to pick those up too! The adios pro 3 took some break in but I absolutely love that shoe.
Top man Kofuzi.
Literally the best
You ARE good at this!
🙌🏼 🙏🏼
To each their own. I have the Pro 2, Pro 3, and Pro 4, and to me the Pro 4 is definitely the softest / most comfortable. Absolutely my favorite long run shoe. Hard decision this week to pick what shoe is going to be my Chicago marathon shoe. I plan to run 2 track miles at marathon pace in each of my top 3 finalists (Pro 4, Alpha 3, Alpha 1) and see if a noticeable difference in Power output. If not a difference, I'll pick the Pro 4, but otherwise I'll pick the winning Alpha.
@@dan-312 sweet! Let me know which one you go with. My three options I’m debating are the alphafly 3, endorphin elite and mizuno wave rebellion pro 2. This will be my first marathon NOT wearing the AF1, which to me is still the GOAT. For my stride and weight, I notice a slightly better output in the AF1.
@@MidLifeRunner Didn't you do the last one in Adios Pro 2?
To me, this is one of the most comfortable shows I tried for a long time, and, it’s fast. I’m a for-foot striker and a cadence runner, weighing in around 192 pounds.
The shoe is very versatile, I use it for tempo and speed sessions, races above 10k etc.
For 5k to 10k distances, I favour the Metaspeed Paris Edge, but the Edge is to narrow for doing long hauls, for me.
I have the ES4 which I find obsolete due to how great the Pro4 works. I can’t get near the turnover in the ES4 as I can in the Pro4. Add to this the ES4 is not as comfortable as the Pro4.
Wish I had bought two pairs of Pro4 instead of one of each.
Great feedback, especially on the speed 4. I have been using the MSE Paris for speed because it’s lighter and I would agree on the long haul. I did 10 plus miles at Mp in the edge Paris and I hesitate to go 26.2 in them. The endo pro is wider and more stable .
@@MidLifeRunner The longest I have pushed the MSE, is about 15k and that was for sure my limit. Would like to do more, because they are super fast, but no.
Yep, the MSE is hands down the most unstable show I have ever tried. Just walking to the starting line feels awkward. Even old style cobble surface in the cities are enough to make me pay extra extra extra attention when in the MSE which can slow the pace a bit.
Did a plus 10k race this Sunday in the Pro4 with paved road, gravel surface, a bit of grass trail and three hill-sprints on the route… they are super stable and entails a lot of confidence, which makes it easier to push the envelope in some conditions.
I took the ES4 as my choice for my first marathon this summer. It was a hot day with 28°C with no wind an bearly any shade on a hilly course (Stockholm). And after 4 hours my feet and legs felt fine (well as fine as they can after a marathon...). But as an avid toe-runner even in lower speed i rly like the shoe! For me with my style and footplacement this shoe works for all paces marathon and up 👌
Awesome! I agree it feels best for me at the mid to forefoot area.
Now I'm really hesitating whether to pick up a pair or not of the Pro4. I like Pro 3. Would you say that it's much firmer than Pro 3? Big fan of your channel and hope you will get more subscribers! I am an average runner and appreciate the style and vibe of your reviews besides being concise and informative. Keep up the great work!
Not sure if it’s plate placement or what but this feels slightly softer than the EP3. Raced 3 marathons in the 3’s, have yet to race the 4 (but will in 2 weeks!)… for me the upper and overall fit is so much better than the 3’s that I’m already calling it a winner. The 3’s ran small for me and the 4 just dialed in where it should be.
@@botrytis_cinerea I would listen to Nick as he’s got more EXP points in the 3 and 4. I will say it is softer in the heel
I have both and have raced them. The Pro4 is softer than the Pro3 for sure. Also, it’s wider and, to me, has a waaaay more comfortable fit than the Pro3.
Love the Pro4. Only minus, is the lazes which is too elastic, but that’s an easy fix.
Think it’s one of the best shows to come out of Saucony in a while. I have put more than 200k on them since the 23th of June in a six shoe rotation.
This shoe is really slow for me and beats up my legs. I can actually run faster 5k times with the Speed 4 and it’s not even close to my fastest shoe. Both of the Metaspeed Paris shoes are much faster. I liked the Pro 2 even though it was really firm and the Pro 3 was my favorite. I only have 12 miles on this so maybe I just need to break it in but I dislike it so much I don’t want to put any more miles on it.
@@MS33496 I understand. I have some 10k and 5k reps at the track tomorrow in my peak week. My legs are generally toast and I can’t imagine taking these shoes out tomorrow. I need something a bit softer or with more protection
I was so looking forward to this shoe when it launched. But, sadly, when I finally got to try it on for more than a couple of runs, I realized it didn't work for me as well as the previous iteration did.
You are not alone. Prefer the 3 but I do still enjoy the 4, if I’m running fast enough anyway .
It may have found a new home in the Hyrox. Given its sturdier plate and stable feel. It’s recommended quite often in that
I can see that for sure. It’s a fast shoe and it’s sturdy
Thank you for the review. For a marathon would you take the sky paris or the alphfly 1? Looking to run close to sub 3 or the closest possibly.
@@amircastilla07 alphafly 1 for sure. The Paris series is super light and nimble, but I worry how they will respond at mile 20 if my form breaks down. Shoes like AF1 and endorphin elite really just lock me in and never let me go 🤣 to be quite dramatic about it
@@MidLifeRunner thank you for the feedback
Chose Endo Pro 4, over Adidas AA Pro 3 as my marathon shoe. This will work for me as I'm slow with a big "S". A couple weeks later, I obtained the Adidas in the tragic black spark colorway, (thanks a million Stock X). Now I'm tossed up again, I do like the Saucony shoe. To my surprise, the Pro 3's are a softer shoe. Mine aren't broken in yet so they feel like bricks. But if they turn out to work better for me, I'm not sure which shoe I'll use in the Palm Beaches Marathon.
@@PatrickAllison I’ve got 250 miles in my Adios pro 3 and have been using them a lot in this training block. As long as the upper doesn’t cut off any of your toes, I would lean to that. But everyone is different
So it wasnt just me who thought the shoe becomes dull and firm when running too slow...
For me the pro 4 is more a super trainer than a race shoe.
I own the elite v1 aswell and its not bouncy at all, I think so aswell.
Theory 2 seems the case, the pwrrun hg foam makes it firm and less bouncy.
Its also a huge junk of pwrrun hg not only a small layer, especially in the forefoot.
Its also a totally forgetable ride... Im not wearing it for 2 tweeks and I have no idea how it felt.
A great shoe but... Uhm in sale its great.
Spot on. I originally put it in my super trainer type of category in my rotation. I have since moved it to 10k race day option as well. It’s hard to beat the light weight of the metaspeed edge Paris but the EP4 is pretty aggressive as spicy threshold paces . Thanks for the input . Theory 2 it is
Leonardo is not going to be happy with you when he watches this EP4 review.
@@shannonsides6017 ☠️ I’m going to double down on my next AF3 is over rated video
2:56 to 3:00 made me subscribe 😂 keep it going 🏃🏻♂️
🙌🏼
I’m watching this on a Monday morning after a two-race weekend. So my legs are sore. Ergo, I’m very much not feeling like running in the EP4.
2 race weekend , you monster! 🧟♀️ love it
I wanted to like this shoe but couldn’t get past the bad heel fit. The elites fit and worked a lot better for me. They feel like Showtime Rotisserie, aka “set it and forget it”, aka cruise control at hm/mp. I relate to David (DoR) and Andy’s (FOD Runner) shoe opinions the most.
Elites are my current favorite
Ive ran a marathon in the pro4. The speed roll is the best thing about the shoe and it doesnt bottom out at 20 plus miles.
I do find the adidas pro 3 feels a bit faster but less stable. So im opposite to you
It’s awesome how shoes can work for some and not for others. I’m glad the speed roll worked for you. It works in all their other shoes for me. The speed 3 bottomed out a little bit up front at higher speeds but heel to toe was nice. Same with pro 3. Did you run in the third version?
@MidLifeRunner No I never got the saucony pro 3 as at the time I had the speed 3 and really didn't rate that shoe tbh. The pro 4 was a bit of a panic buy for my marathon as I found late in training that the adidas pro 3 wasn't the one for the race. First run was 21 miles and felt really good and made the cut. 😆
Yess!!! But no. Lol
This is my race day shoe (two weeks to go!)… so evidently we have different um legs?? Feet? Hips?!
So, I’m curious, Andrew, which does the EP4 compare to Metaspeed shoes? I’m super interested in those as potential race shoe for next year….
The EP4 is “more shoe”- wider, bigger heel, more stable. I like the metaspeed super shoe for workouts and race day up to half marathon but I don’t have the nuts to take them the marathon distance
I don’t know who my guy is but I agree w/ yowana sometimes. oh….i know who it is, but he doesn’t get a lot of run. It’s the Clydesdale Runner on BITR.
Chad Zimmerman. He's become my (for now) North Star for big guy recommendations. 215ish lbs here (6'). 👍💪
You must have one of those fancy, expensive bounciemeters to be able to get that precise 1/80th bouncier measurement. 😂
It’s all about the nuance 🤣
@@MidLifeRunner right?
Interesting. I havent tried the endo 4 yet but I saw your boy yowana sayin its great for slow marathoners that expect to be running 4 hours or more.
I did/do like the endo 3 but i will say i was iffy on it for the first 50 or 60 miles. I remember thinking it was way too firm and couldn't figure out how every review said it was soft and responsive. For reference im 6'2" 212-215#. If it took that long for me to break in. Im perplexed that 130# shoetubers were breaking it in right out the box🤷.
All that to say is you're bang on with everyone needs to find a reviewer that has a higher batting average that lines up with confirmed hits for yourself. Unfortunately im all over the map and havent found my shayam yet (but andrew is close lol🍻)
Thanks for the feedback Nick! The endo pro 3 also was a bit perplexing when I got it 1 year after everyone else and they all said it was soft, but then it wasn’t. And I realized it was softer than v1 and then I did Mp efforts and I could feel that speed roll technology and I began to understand the shoe better . It’s the same with the endorphin elite. It seems like a roller more than a forefoot fast-strike shoe, to me anyway. The 4 has a solid heel bt the roll through feels disconnected
DiCaprio and Jennifer Lawrence in Don't Look Up (2021). A masterpiece... unlike the Endo P4.
🤣 I’ll have to watch it. To DiCaprio’s credit. He has gotten much better in the last 25 years. He used to just hide behind A list directors , 100 million dollar budgets and an accent but even since Inception he’s really grown
I went for a 5 mile run in the pro 4 and my knees were sore the next day 🤷♂️
Way to crush it though!
I wrote my ese back in 7th grade... he still hasn't written me back tho 😢
☠️
wait didnt you call this a super trainer a few months ago?
Yes. I was using it as a marathon shoe or tempo. Once I started using it as a 10k option, I saw it as a racer. While I wouldn’t reach for it first, I do think it is race worthy for 5k to 10k
To me the perfect shoe would be the Endo Pro 4 upper on the Pro 3 midsole.
@@PatrikHow 🎯
This one's for the last 10 second pitch. 😂
Yeah I'm the opposite of you. This works great for half and marathon pace because it's not too bouncy and the roll is smooth. I'm team Matt not Andrea. You spreading miss information bro 😂
@@PatrickStar_24 ☠️ Team Andrea all the way
Calvin Candie collabs with Scorsese & Tarantino, not Kofuzi (nice gentleman that he is), just sayin'...
🤣 he ONLY collabs with A list directors with 100 million dollar budgets. To his credit, he doesn’t hide behind a forced accent as much as he did 20 years ago. He’s gotten really good the last decade
Shoetubers should list their paces, weight, and cadence to make it easier to compare what they feel in a shoe to that of other people. Yes, that was a run-on sentence.
@@thewalls7770 I’m going to start doing this from now on: 5’6 and 1/2, 148lbs. Higher cadence , midfoot strike
@@MidLifeRunner is a trendsetter. I'm 6'0", 175 lbs, with a lower (165ish) cadence and midfoot strike. This is why making shoe decisions based on reviews is so challenging. I'm taking a forced layoff from running for the next few months anyway. Rotator cuff surgery from a jits injury. There will be a lot of walking in my future.
If it's too fast for you...sheesh
@@corey_ms seriously. Maybe it’s all the mileage I’ve been running but I am not eager to run in them any time soon
You need to hook up with BITC like Aubrey did and get your subscribers up.
The word is regressed
@@LND_Ben 🙌🏼
@@MidLifeRunner to add I am an average runner and high end super shoes don’t work so well with my slow marathon pace. I have ordered this shoe as have been told it’s better at a slower pace “5 min per km my pace” thanks for the review
A whole lot of yapping.
He gets paid per word 🙂↕️
🤣 yes, your two cents is now my two cents (watch time). 🙏🏼 thank you.
My first visit to your channel, really enjoyed it! Off to hit the subscribe button... Oh, in terms of shoetubers who tend to vibe with me the most, probably Robbe @BItR, Edd Bud, and Run4Adventure.
🙌🏼 nice! I’m more Robbe than Meg I think too.