Nobody nitpicks other past players like people do to MJ. He could have literally been alone on the Bulls team and people would say it's unfair because MJ had an unfair amount of space because he was playing alone.
Gilbert brought up how MJ was labelled the best after winning just 1 championship. Zeke Larry Magic all his contemporaries and fans just came to general consensus. Then he tacked on 5 more championships many more accolades. He didn’t have reps going around paying everyone off or calling himself the best. He’s such a G he won’t even go public and acknowledge any of these guys trying to throw dirt on his name. Sticking to letting his game speak for itself which is way to go.
100% before he won his first ring we all already knew he was the best player in the world. Once he won his 3rd ring it was unanimous that he's the greatest ever. Then he won 3 more and that was the ultimate nail in the coffin ever in sports lol.
By his 1st championship ring, he had already won an NCAA championship, a gold medal with a team that beat the NBA All-Stars 8 games to 0, ROTY, DPOY, 6xAll Star, 2xMVP, and lead the league in scoring 5 out of the first 7 years he was in the league.
You always have to consider champions. MJ went 6 straight. Yes there were others that had more championship but they never did it they way Mj did. The man for his position and height I believe has never missed the playoffs. He dominated his whole career
Just a little correction, Pippen was drafted by Seattle then traded the same draft night with Olden Polynice whom Bulls drafted that night. And regarding Pippen, we wouldn't really know what would he be had he not get traded to Bulls given the fact that he learned so much playing under Phil's system and with MJ. For sure not going to be a franchise player with his mindset and clutchless-ness. He might have still developed well playing for another team but I doubt if it will be anywhere near the level he got to with the Bulls. Not without the crazy push and expectation from MJ -- which is where I give so much respect to Pip, a pressure which broke so many other players and Pippen thrived through it.
I agree on everything else but the triangle wasn't Phil's system and they (Jordan and his teammates were playing in the triangle in 85' but he didn't have good teammates to rely on then . Phil didn't get hired as an assistant until 87' the same year Pippen was traded for after being drafted by Seattle and Grant was drafted by the Bulls. PS The triangle was Tex Winter's system and he was hired by the Bulls in 85'.
My dad literally hates any and everything, except for the Magic Johnson Lakers and Pittsburgh Steelers. When he watched Jordan play, he couldn't stand the attention he gained but recognized that Jordan was an amazing, exciting, and pretty much unstoppable player.
@@TheRealMindCrime Yeah, he can't stand Michael Jordan. Just talked to him the other day and i mentioned basketball. First thing that came out of his mouth was "I couldn't stand Michael Jordan dunking the ball with his tongue out" haha. Surprisingly, he told me he enjoys watching Steph Curry which shocked the hell out of me.
This just proves that the younger generation just don’t get it. Excluding his Wizard years is another proof of how much they don’t get why MJ is our GOAT. I get that the current generation just saw LeBron and they want it so bad for him to be THE GOAT…but for us who saw all of MJ, Kobe and LeBron, it’s not even close. Sure James has been playing for a looong time…but like i always say to my friends…Quality iver Quantity.
yup, when someone excludes the wizards years it shows me their age. We all understood it back then. The guy had nothing left to prove. He was already the goat. Let him play and pass the torch. It was symbolic
@@TheRealMindCrime I remembered him actually being in MVP talks during his first Wizards year and they were on their to make the playoffs. All that came crashing down with the knee injuries.
ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the first 24 years of the 21st Century: 1) Michael Phelps, 2) Serena Williams, 3) Lionel Messi, 4) LeBron James at only number #4, 5) Tom Brady, 6) Roger Federer, 7) Simone Biles, 8) Tiger Woods, 9) Usain Bolt, 10) Kobe Bryant. However, when ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 1900 to 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the entire 100 years (the whole Century)of the 20st Century: 1) Michael Jeffrey Jordan easily won the #1 spot, 2) Babe Ruth, 3) Muhammad Ali, 4) Jim Brown, 5) Wayne Gretzky, 6) Jesse Owens, 7) Jim Thorpe, 8) Willie Mays, 9) Jack Nicklaus, 10) Babe Didrikson, 11) Joe Louis, 12) Carl Lewis, 13) Wilt Chamberlain, 14) Hank Aaron, 15) Jackie Robinson, 16) Ted Williams, 17) Magic Johnson, 18) Bill Russell. So Michael Jordan is the #1 GOAT of the whole 20th Century, and LeBron James is only the #4 Player of the 21st Century. ESPN got this one right all the way. Nobody was a better athlete than Michael Jordan because Michael Jordan was better than everybody. Look at the distance between LeBron James and the VERY next basketball player (Kobe Bryant) in their era, and look at the distance between Michael Jordan and the VERY next basketball player (Wilt Chamberlain) in their era. There are 5 athletes between LeBron James and Kobe Bryant in their era, and there are 11 people between Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain in their era. The distance between Michael Jordan and whoever you have at #2, in regards to professional basketball, is the distance between Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain on this ESPN list. Case closed. GAME OVER!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@izumolee6714 Well if Tom Brady is in the conversation for being “the Michael Jordan of” football, as Tiger Woods is in the conversation for being “the Michael Jordan of” golf, and it’s not even a conversation because Usain Bolt is “the Michael Jordan of” track & field, then all three (3) athletes should all be automatically ranked above LeBron James, since Michael Jordan is easily the best and greatest to ever play the very sport that LeBron James himself attempted, yet conclusively failed to succeed at playing.
Excellent MJ GOAT case video, love that Clayton didn't see MJ play but still sees his greatness. I didn't see Bird and Magic, but they're top 10, I don't bash newer guys to make their case.
every fan of jordan has a reason a valid reason! i watch the nba because of him thats my reason. nothing more nothing less if so it just add up for being a fan. he made me play basketball in real life and dream someday to like him.
People around 40 and older know who the 🐐 is. I love watching those Jordan highlight reaction videos by the new generation. To them, it's highlights. To us who witnessed his career, it was a Tuesday. It sucks because there's simply not enough of his highlights on YT. He done something spectacular multiple times in every single game he ever played in.
I love Phil Jackson and it’s said we have to say this. Phil Jackson was a beast on and off the court when you did into his career. Let’s be real here too he coaches nothing but legends in basketball
I would love to see you make a video of why MJ is the GOAT. I know you’ve said some of your pov about the subject, but a vid of you dissecting the argument would be dope.
Kenny Smith made a great point of why Lebron should not be compared to MJ. He said MJ never had the luxury of playing on a team where one of his teammates required a double team. It was solely Michael’s responsibility to lead the team in scoring or they didn’t win. MJ didn’t have to carry the teams offensive load for a season or two; he did this for his entire career and still made 10 Defensive 1st Team selections, as well as, 1 DPOY. Lebron doesn’t even play defense while playing with superteams. The games a lot easier and the pressures a lot less when you’ve got 2-3 other All-Stars and Hall of Famers on your squad like Lebron has he’d nearly his entire career. Another angle is once MJ and the Bulls began winning titles no other team was allowed to eat on his watch. The Warriors won 4 titles during Lebron’s “so-called” reign and would’ve won another without the Draymond suspension and Bogut injury in 2016. Lebron is a great player but he’s no MJ and honestly he shouldn’t even be named in the conversation with Kobe.
100% and that's why they would double and even triple team MJ. If he had one dude who demanded a double team it would be game over. He'd actually get some easy looks at the hoop
@@TheRealMindCrime That’s why Kobe deserves more respect for winning 2 titles without Shaq. Lebron hasn’t won anything without a superteam and has failed 6 times otherwise.
He called out his whole franchise that injury year cause it seemed like they wanted to tank season to not make playoffs, and get a good pick. I think that's crazy for a 2nd year player
yup! MJ is crazy too because if they tanked he would've gotten better help in a lottery pick but MJ has old school morals and wanted to win for the fans
Kobe had what no other player will ever have and that's he played for one of the best coaches ever and was mentored by the GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME. It's told that when Kobe wasn't acti g right Phil would get M.J on the phone while the game was going on and have him speak with Kobe
Jordan worked out after that Piston's loss. In his documentary, Jordan stated he realized he needed to get physically stronger, so he worked out. Then, they came back the following year and won. Im sure others on the team hit the gym a little harder that off-season.
Jordan opened up so many doors/opportunities for today’s players and they shit on him for it. LeBron isn’t a billionaire without Jordan, the game doesn’t become global without Jordan and the Dream Team, players don’t make 300 million over 5 years without Jordan BUT it’s like Jordan said in Rare Air “Basketball isn’t my job it’s what I do, endorsing products is my job and 95% of my income is through endorsements. Ik there are millions of kids who want to Be Like Mike and I have a responsibility for their conduct and their future grandchildren’s conduct. Am I perfect? No BUT I feel I have an obligation to show class and professionalism to anyone trying to be like me regardless of age!!”
Because he was not perfect is what makes his legacy impressive. Imagine if he was perfect, it would have been boring. But the rise to the occasion, the falls and rises is like no other.
I was watching steph curry yesterday and i was like thats the greatest player ive seen live in the end because although i do go back and watch old games i never seen kobe or Jordan live when kobe retired i was and i was watching mostly soccer in these years
@@TheRealMindCrime i really wanted France to win not only for wemby but because im tired that every time i put on the Olympics usa ends up winning im tired of hearing the usa national anthem
Great comments about Jordan fans not hating on other players! And about Jordan getting multiple beat downs by Detroit. And for me Jordan staying with his team and NOT colluding with other stars to make a run at rings but EARNING every ring he won and was FMVP for all 6 championships. Dwayne Wade has even talked about being on the phone with Lebron and watching Kobe win his 5th ring and that being the defining moment when the collusion was solidified. Not only did these 2 get Bosh but they were trying to get Chris Paul on board the Miami "ring machine". For me the famous "not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7" quote from Lebron is admitting his need for other great players and his inability to lead a team!! Also the "that one right there made me the greatest" is proof that Lebron is guilty of not having his focus on basketball but the stat sheet. I could go on and on but the last thing I want to say is the NBA and media has created awards that did not exist when Jordan played in an attempt to elevate Lebron = the in season tournament MVP and Olympic MVP ??? Please stop.
i think every team sports needs a mom and a dad figure like a family. mj and popovic are the father figures in their teams whos pushes you and toughens you and force you to your limits while duncan and jackson are mom figures who glues the family and support the teams with compassion and try the best to make others the better versions of themselves. btw never make moms angry even dads knows its the biggest mistakes to do lol.
I watched the original earlier, and the ending of video is beautiful, and really let's you know what was going on back in day, the feeling of what was happening
“We celebrate greatness.” Nailed it, TRMC! We celebrate greatest of all flavors, but when greatness is attacked, scrutiny of the accusing camp begins… And the war starts… except my generation - born in ‘72 and my brother is your age - loves nothing more than to be challenged because we love competition. We already grew up defending our LeBrons (or Olajuwons) and lost. If MJ didn’t repeatedly prove it on the court, the “who’s the man?” battle continued off the court. And here’s the rules: whomever is still speaking of NBA player accolades long after the other stops talking, is the winner. Bulls fans never ran out stats before we non-MJ fans stopped talking. He was just that good. We defend Jordan today using the words and facts of yesterday’s enemies. And history has proven them right. Finally, I’ll let all of the younger generation folks in on a secret… we’re not all from Chicago, so we hate admitting that MJ is the GOAT 🤫 but that’s what MEN do.
Absolutely! MJ broke the hearts of millions by beating our home teams and favorite players. He earned our respect and thats why we defend him when people say crazy things like he is overrated.
I love seeing clips of MJ's teammates talk about him. Those like Purdue, Wennington, Kukoc, and Randy Brown understood what he was trying to do. Others talk about him being an ass(Pippen, Buschler, Scott Williams), but I see a number of clips in games where those same teammates are celebrating the wins they got with Jordan. I've also seen clips of him praising those same teammates, like when he promised Bobby Hansen he would win him a ring or when he passed off to Kerr for the win of the 5th ring. It seems that a lot of the people who complain about him were those who had problems keeping up to his standards...
Bob Knight was asked what he thought about the MJ vs. Lebron as the GOAT question.Bob Knight replied-That’s not even a real question.Michael is the greatest to ever play the game because he approached defense with as much tenacity as he did offense.
The 'watered down league' argument is so dumb...because EVERYONE playing in that era had the exact same advantage. If the league was so 'watered down' why weren't there loads of other Michael Jordans taking advantage of this supposed easy watered down league?
exactly! plus most of those expansion teams were actually really good within a few years. Hornets and Magic off the top of my head. They were contenders
@TheRealMindCrime this argument goes right along with the dumb 'evolution' arguments -- they try to argue that Jordan was basically a time traveler from the much advanced future. As if he was the only good player in the 90s. As if evolution happens in one generation. 🙄
@@TheRealMindCrime if Penny Hardaway never suffered that injury I believe they would have at least two finals together. People forget how much of a beast Shaw was as on the Orlando magic.😮😮😮
Yeah some of the expansion teams were magic, heat, and hornets. Who were comprised of bums like Shaq, penny, Horace grant, nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, Alonzo mourning, Tim Hardaway, Jamal mashburn, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Larry Johnson, Alonzo mourning, mugsy bogues, Kendall gill, etc. Yeah those players really watered down the league....
@TheRealMindCrime that's because the hornets took bj Armstrong and grant left to the magic 2 championship teammates from the bulls. It's like people don't think. It's like shooting mindless zombies. Can't argue with people who don't think because they won't understand the concept.
@@TheRealMindCrime yeah no doubt just wish he would have given Wade Bosh Kyrie Love AD and the endless superstar players the same credit he gave Jordan teammates
Michael Jordan doesn't need to be "Making the Case" because he just blows away the competition. LeBron is 2 steps behind and MJ's 2 steps ahead. Besides, I still say Larry Bird was ahead of LeBron in the GOAT debate. Michael changed the NBA back in the 80's and according to AntMan, he was the only talented player 25-40 years ago. We all know that can't be true. But Jordan is hands down the Best & Greatest Player of All-Time, on both sides of the court.
I wore #23 in college bc Mike cultivated that love of compet Even so - I have a Larry Bird Indiana State Jersey framed in my room. My grandparents, who I watched 90's basketball with, made sure I understood the greats of each generation stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before them. Everything he said Jordan fans do -describes what Lebron fans do perfectly. The "plumber" insult didn't become a thing until LeBron's current head coach said it on the network that has degraded sports discourse to an infantile level. & Scottie is the one responsible for a more balanced approach on the Bulls with selfless, & etc? The same Scottie Pippen who took himself out for not getting the last shot & called Phil a racist for it? Scottie is generational(ly overrated by Klutch Kool-Aid consumers).
People need to understand something: Jordan is a sports ICON. LeBron isnt on the same level.....not on the same level MJ ever was. That's not bashing the dude, its just the truth. MJ will always be the GOAT because he took basketball to heights never seen before. LeBron can never claim that. MJ is his own player who is not tethered to anyone.......LeBron is absolutely STUCK in MJ's shadow and never forged his own positive legacy. Look no further than LeBron's jersey numbers: 23 (MJ's number) and 6 (number of rings MJ won). His whole career is an attempt to better than MJ and almost trying to erase him but he doesnt understand that his career is nothing WITHOUT the legacy of MJ. Even Kobe had the sense to pick different jersey numbers......even 24 and 8 became HIS OWN numbers. Dude is forever chasing MJ's ghost and thats all the proof you need that MJ is STILL the GOAT.
The most underrated point is that people watching today who didn’t watch during Jordan’s day don’t want a reality where they never got to see the GOAT playing. It’s kind of sad to think that you were born a decade or more late and it already passed you by. It’s the truth, but that’s why it’s not told as such 😉
it is sad. When someone older talks about watching Wilt or Russell play I listen. I wish these young ones would listen when we talk about MJ. It was all real. He was just that good
Kids who were too young to see MJ's career will never quite understand. The reason why we don't hate on guys like Bird, Magic or Kareem etc, is because the GOAT debate wasn't a huge thing. MJ started playing, and it was just totally natural to think 'omg, this dude is by far the best player in the world'. We weren't looking for it, but he just delivered it. For some reason, many LeBron fans have made the GOAT debate something that, for some reason, needs to happen. No, a crowning of a GOAT just organically happens, and it never organically happened for LeBron.
I think the point regarding Jordan playing in a "diluted league" with expansion teams is a weird point to mention, especially when there are Bill Russell detractors who don't consider him in the GOAT convo for being successful in a league with less than 30 teams
Post Video Comment: I enjoyed your commentary on this one. I saw earlier that you put out the Lebron James Video, which I hoped you would follow with the Jordan video. I am not sure if it is my PC, but it seemed like the last part of Clayton's video was not included. Maybe it got edited out for some reason, but the case was made. It is that final part that made me a big fan of Clayton's channel. This video about MJ being the GOAT is the first I ever watched of his. I am still hoping to see you react to a one or two part video on the Kobe "Legends" video by Clayton as well. Since you are a Suns fan, Thinking Basketball did a video on Steve Nash earlier this year from a new series of his called "Offensive Legends" I think you would like too. Appreciate your hard work, with the two-a-day uploads. It gives me a lot to content to check out.
I saw thsi video before and I have it a thumbs down, I am pretty sure it was for a reason and this was probably one of them. There must have been a lot of slick dissing of MJ in this video for me to give a it a thumbs down
Yeah I've seen most of his making the case videos, and I don't recall any others saying as many negative things or low key diss things. I don't dislike this video, but it definitely has suspect moments and he left out a ton of pro-jordan info, too.
that's true! Maybe it's his age because the world sees Jordan brand everywhere and he didn't get to watch him play. I dunno, but I do know that you have a good point.
THE TOP 15 ALL TIME: 1. Michael Jordan - the greatest player and the greatest career in NBA history. Most dominant offensive force and one of the games best defenders. 6x Champ 6x FMVP 5x MVP 2. Bill Russell - the greatest winner and greatest defensive force in NBA and sports history. A legend on/off court. The key to NBA first dynasty. 11x Champ 5x FMVP 5x MVP 3. Magic Johnson - the great PG ever (so far…). REVOLUTIONIZED his position and saved the NBA. 5x Champ 3x FMVP 3xMVP 4. LeBron James - the greatest longevity in sports history. One of the most dominant forces ever and top5 all round player. 4x Champ 4x FMVP 4x MVP 5. Tim Duncan - best PF ever. One of the most fundamentally sound players ever. Played both ends at the highest level for 15 seasons. 5x Champ 3x FMVP 2x MVP 6. Kareem Abdul Jabar - owner of the most dominant go-to move on offense. The HOOK. The previous scoring leader and lead all points for 4 decades. The greatest BASKETBALL career ever. Prep to Pro. 6x Champ 2x FMVP 6x MVP 7. Kobe Bryant - see number 1 and dilute the athleticism and physical intangibles and that’s what you got. Arguably the greatest warrior in NBA history. 5x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 8. Shaquille O’Neal - the most dominant ever. The immovable object/unstoppable force. Shaq was the definition of dominance. 4x Champ 3x FMVP 1x MVP 9. Larry Bird - maybe the most legendary on the list. Precursor to Jokic but better. One of the most skilled & clutch players ever. In any sport. 3x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP 10. Hakeem Olajuwon - back to back. The best of the mid90’s and second best player in the era. Hakeem is like Russell but with AllNBA offensive ability. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 11. Wilt Chamberlain - the games most prolific scorers. Arguably it’s greatest defender as well. The man could do it all. Even lead the league in assist at 7”2. Wilt IS unparalleled. GOAT athlete. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP 12. Steph Curry - the games most prolific shooter and one of its greatest scorers. REVOLUTIONIZED the game forever. STILL GOING. 4x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 13. Isaiah Thomas - ZEKE. CP3 before CP3 but nastier and meaner. A warrior and one of the games greatest strategist and generals. Quietly a top5 passer. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 14. Oscar Robertson - the greatest all around basketball player ever. Could do everything at a AllNBA level. Changed the way players were interpreted and influenced generations. 1x Champ 2x MVP 15. Kevin Durant - the Slim Reaper is likely the most ideal offensive weapon ever. Can hit from anywhere, anytime over anyone. Hard to beat and impossible to match that level of offensive dominance. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP
Pretty good list, but in my opinion Bill Russell and Magic are too high and Isiah Thomas shouldn't be on it. I can think of 20 players that aren't on this list who I would select over Isiah Thomas
To name a few that I would take over Isiah Thomas...Dr J, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Giannis, Dirk, D Wade, Allen Iverson, Scottie Pippen, Kevin Mchale, Robert Perish, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Oscar Robertson...
Not only do us old skool fans celebrate greatness, but we recognize and give credit to mature professionalism and great character, and probably most of all, integrity. MJ, Magic, Bird, and many more from those days is to the core exactly that. They carried themselves as if they had an obligation to be an example for the people and especially the youth. They knew they were being watched and know that the kids will copycat whatever they did. Not only basketball skills, but the way they handled themselves within society. As for me, that’s mostly the reasons why I can’t stand or watch these dudes play. Every darn basketball they make they have to do an immature celebration than get their a$$es back on defense. Cry and whine to the refs at every call. It’s just pathetic and disgraceful.
Jordan helped creating scottie jordan and scottie helped creating the champion bulls team (jordans mentality) and this bulls team decorated phill jackson in the best way possible
He scored like nobody else every game every second of the game he defended like nobody else every game every second he assisted to his teammates especially like nobody else in the game every second in the game (watch the eleven games back to back tripple doubles as pointguard) man that is way he is the goat to us and by the way he was winning like nobody else every game in every finals ... not human
Our generation was brought up with RESPECT TO/FOR THE PAST!! Basketball was invented by Dr. James Naismith in 1891 in Springfield, Ma. The NBA was the NBL from 1930 until 43 when it dissolved and became the NBA in 46 with Maurice Podoloff as the first commissioner of the league until 63. I don’t just play ik the history of the game
Great insight regarding MJ filling bad cop role to Jackson's laid-back, zen approach. Whereas Duncan's mild demeanor was offset by Pop's disciplinarian role.
MJ, LeBron and Kobe superstans are 3 peas in the same pod, all have significant numbers of people that will go after other players and shit on them for no reason, most of the time it's the other 2
I think Scottie can be compared to Draymond by being elite defensive point forwards, but probably wouldn’t be hall of famers without MJ, Curry and the system making them look good.
I can see that. If Lamar Odom was with Kobe for all 6 rings I also think more people would compare the two. Lamar played Scotties role in those 2 rings.
I went to Chicago in 2021. Of course, I went to The United Center only to be greatly disappointed because they had moved the statue inside. There were covid tents all over the parking lots. Not sure why they moved the statue inside.
Everyone back in my day (the 90s) wanted to wear number 23. I always wanted to wear #69, but my high school team didn't have it and my junior college coach said no. 😂
Yup. At that time the idea of firing doug collins who just made it to the conference finals for a rookie head coach named phil that no one knew was insane! But it did work out.
@44:51 completely understandable. Looking at the Warriors, Klay & Steph are mostly reserved. Then you have Draymond and see how his practices are, punishing a teammate. Completely different dynamics. But they're winning basketball. Also, when the title is on the line, its nice to have a coach who has a system, has reins over their superstar. I would be curious to see LeBron, or Jokic or Durant having a legendary coach put them in their systems. I think one example that popped in my head was Larry Brown with Allen Iverson. Brown took that Sixers team to the Finals. He did it by creating the best team environment. Same thing as the Heat, and Pat Riley, who believed in all 15 players, or all hands on deck. It makes just makes more sense.
I'm a long time Lakers fan, and I use to make an argument that magic was the goat but if I'm being honest with myself mj is by far the greatest....the real debate is ranking 2 through 10
Congratulations. Simome Biles was voted # 7 on ESPN’s list too. Awesome. ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the first 24 years of the 21st Century: 1) Michael Phelps, 2) Serena Williams, 3) Lionel Messi, 4) LeBron James, 5) Tom Brady, 6) Roger Federer, 7) Simone Biles, 8) Tiger Woods, 9) Usain Bolt, 10) Kobe Bryant. When ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 1900 to 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the entire 100 years (the whole Century)of the 20st Century: 1) Michael Jeffrey Jordan easily won the #1 spot, 2) Babe Ruth, 3) Muhammad Ali, 4) Jim Brown, 5) Wayne Gretzky, 6) Jesse Owens, 7) Jim Thorpe, 8) Willie Mays, 9) Jack Nicklaus, 10) Babe Didrikson, 11) Joe Louis, 12) Carl Lewis, 13) Wilt Chamberlain, 14) Hank Aaron, 15) Jackie Robinson, 16) Ted Williams, 17) Magic Johnson, 18) Bill Russell. 👀
@@TheRealMindCrime Yea RMC, and I definitely have Usain Bolt over LeBron James because like Michael Phelps is the Michael Jordan of Swimming, Usain Bolt is the Michael Jordan of Track & Field, just as Simone Biles is likely viewed as the Michael Jordan of gymnastics.
Being young is a silly excuse. I wasn't alive to see Bruce Lee or Muhammad Ali. But, I believe they're GOATs. People don't educate themselves. Yet want to pretend to have a valid opinion. Having a favorite is one thing. But if people don't agree with you. Suddenly there's a problem.
Certain things in basketball sort of broke my heart. Like when LeBron went to Miami I stopped watching for a few years (also around that time Nash left the suns and I knew that run was over, even though I think they were like a .500 team before he left) Then this kid Curry came along and got me interested again. Then KD went to the Warriors and it killed my interest in basketball again. It wasn't until the Last Dance that I started getting back into it again.
MJ accepted Phil Jackson. However, Phil needed MJ, way more, Phil Jackson needed to have an all world athlete like an MJ or a Kobe. If he didn't, then why couldn't he win any more championships with Pippen or Carmelo Anthony 😂
The reason why we don't bash the greats before Jordan , cause Jordan always praised the greats before him! Unlike the all time great Reddick say the NBA was full of plumbers, who the eff is Reddick??
I really don't like how this guy is ignoring the context that you had to point out. It just reminds me of all these LeBots that regurgitate "MJ needed Pippen" or "MJ needed Phil Jackson" with no context as to how they got to the level they achieved. Just because their favorite player actually needed Wade/Bosh, Kyrie/Love, and AD they need to try dragging MJ down saying he needed help too. There's a difference in being the reason someone became great and joining up with people who were already great.
Pause video: For context, after this video, Clayton did make a video critcizing MJ's tenure with the Wizards. I've always disagreed with many points he made in that particular video, and I think MJ's time with the wizards should be included with his case in this video. That stated, his time with the Bulls has personally convinced me that he is the Greatest to ever put leather through nylon. His Wizards tenure was phenomenal as well.
21:10 and the Bulls were the only team that pushed the Pistons during their 89 & 90 championship runs; if my memory serves me correctly, once the Bulls swept the Pistons, Bulls beat them every time they played against each other.
it's hard....by record its the 95-96 Bulls but I've always believed the 85 Celtics were so stacked and perfectly crafted that I think that may be it. On paper the 2011 Heat should have been the greatest but they didn't even come close
Wow, I never thought about it but you're right. Scottie is very similar to LeBron. Good at everything but not amazing at anything (except for Scottie's defense) but not THAT GUY. They both need THAT GUY to close the game out.
I just dont get how people can go from winning the game to making it to the finals but NOT winning is better Flopping oooo he is my goat, blaming my mates and coches oooo hes my goat not playing defens and dissapear in the important last minuits of the game oooo heee is the goat
The only reason all of us are even having this conversation is because of the media propaganda for Lefraud. There wasn’t a player before Jordan or after that even compares to him. No one especially Leflop who in my opinion isn’t even top 20 best players of all time.
If player X were to retire today with 2 rings, 2 fmvps, 1 mvp, 1dpoy, 4 all defensive 1st teams, 9 scoring titles, and 3 steals titles. You would say this player was for sure a first ballot hall of famer! Well player x is the difference in accomplishments between MJ and LeBron. So basically LeBron + 1st ballot HOFer = MJ! And that is just to tie MJ in accomplishments, you need more to surpass him. So yes the GOAT argument starts and end with MJ. Like Larry bird said before the 3pt contest one year, the rest of y'all all playing for second place (paraphrasing). I believe the exact quote was "which one of you guys is coming in second place"....
LeBron fans: “LeBron only lost because he didn’t have enough help Basketball fans: “MJ had to lose to Boston and Detroit in order to learn how to win That’s the difference between us👍🏽
they're ignoring MJ's Wizard years when he was still a top 10 player when he was healthy and pushing 40. if they ignore it enough, they will keep pushing the narrative that he was awful as a Wizard but LeBron (top 20 player nowadays) is still great...
I like how he pointed coaching other players Jordon played with but not all the Top 75 players Lebron has had. But whatever, its not a big deal. I overall don't think he said too much in this video.
Clayton came off extremely bad in this video IMO, he lied for more a less the first five minutes. Jordan fans generally don't bash anyone not named LeBron, Jordan himself acknowledges his failures so his fans embrace his losses as well, this is the issue with people that are from the LeBaldo era they cannot even make a case for MJ without their blatant bias coming through. In fact there is only 1 fanbase that pretends their guys losses never happened or weren't his fault. I also find the Phila Jackson argument disingenuous because you can't say Jordan had the greatest coach ever then claim LeBron has never had a great coach because Spoelstra hadn't developed into who he is yet.
yeah I definitely had to pause and push back on a lot of that stuff. I've never heard an MJ fan claim Jordan never lost. We just say he never lost a championship game or series which is facts.
I forget what video I watch but it helped me appreciate Jordan's Wizards period. Where I can agree that the Wizards era is not pretty if you just gloss over it. Adding Jordan turned the Wizards from one of the worst in the league into a title contender over night. LBJ has never done that, he needs more in order to be a title contender.
Nobody nitpicks other past players like people do to MJ. He could have literally been alone on the Bulls team and people would say it's unfair because MJ had an unfair amount of space because he was playing alone.
Agreed they add context and leave it out to make him look worse. For others they make excuses and leave out context to make others look better
Im proud to say ive seen every final game back in the days.
You cant compare MJ with any Player of today. Its not even close
Even his son
same here. I never missed a finals or playoff bulls game back then
@@Owen-pb4wfant? 🤔
@@RemoWilliams1227 indeed
I'm 46 years old and I grew up watching Bulls games on WGN. Maybe I'm an old head but basketball was so much better back then
Gilbert brought up how MJ was labelled the best after winning just 1 championship. Zeke Larry Magic all his contemporaries and fans just came to general consensus. Then he tacked on 5 more championships many more accolades. He didn’t have reps going around paying everyone off or calling himself the best. He’s such a G he won’t even go public and acknowledge any of these guys trying to throw dirt on his name. Sticking to letting his game speak for itself which is way to go.
100% before he won his first ring we all already knew he was the best player in the world. Once he won his 3rd ring it was unanimous that he's the greatest ever. Then he won 3 more and that was the ultimate nail in the coffin ever in sports lol.
@@TheRealMindCrime Signed and Sealed
By his 1st championship ring, he had already won an NCAA championship, a gold medal with a team that beat the NBA All-Stars 8 games to 0, ROTY, DPOY, 6xAll Star, 2xMVP, and lead the league in scoring 5 out of the first 7 years he was in the league.
Michael Jordan The Greatest The Goat 🐐 Of Basketball Period....!!!!!!
Nah, it's just an opinion
he's definitely my goat
@@BBallGOAT nah.
You always have to consider champions. MJ went 6 straight. Yes there were others that had more championship but they never did it they way Mj did. The man for his position and height I believe has never missed the playoffs. He dominated his whole career
Just a little correction, Pippen was drafted by Seattle then traded the same draft night with Olden Polynice whom Bulls drafted that night.
And regarding Pippen, we wouldn't really know what would he be had he not get traded to Bulls given the fact that he learned so much playing under Phil's system and with MJ.
For sure not going to be a franchise player with his mindset and clutchless-ness. He might have still developed well playing for another team but I doubt if it will be anywhere near the level he got to with the Bulls. Not without the crazy push and expectation from MJ -- which is where I give so much respect to Pip, a pressure which broke so many other players and Pippen thrived through it.
I agree on everything else but the triangle wasn't Phil's system and they (Jordan and his teammates were playing in the triangle in 85' but he didn't have good teammates to rely on then . Phil didn't get hired as an assistant until 87' the same year Pippen was traded for after being drafted by Seattle and Grant was drafted by the Bulls. PS The triangle was Tex Winter's system and he was hired by the Bulls in 85'.
Apparently not mentally lol.
I love pip but his life outside of basketball and what he did in playoffs in ‘94 shows how weak his mentality was without MJ.
My dad literally hates any and everything, except for the Magic Johnson Lakers and Pittsburgh Steelers. When he watched Jordan play, he couldn't stand the attention he gained but recognized that Jordan was an amazing, exciting, and pretty much unstoppable player.
Lol that's a small list of athletes he appreciates
@@TheRealMindCrime Yeah, he can't stand Michael Jordan. Just talked to him the other day and i mentioned basketball. First thing that came out of his mouth was "I couldn't stand Michael Jordan dunking the ball with his tongue out" haha. Surprisingly, he told me he enjoys watching Steph Curry which shocked the hell out of me.
I saw the MJ statue when it was indoors in 2019. Absolutely sick, MJ is the GOAT there's no doubt about it
Damn thats so cool! I really wanna see it someday
This just proves that the younger generation just don’t get it. Excluding his Wizard years is another proof of how much they don’t get why MJ is our GOAT. I get that the current generation just saw LeBron and they want it so bad for him to be THE GOAT…but for us who saw all of MJ, Kobe and LeBron, it’s not even close. Sure James has been playing for a looong time…but like i always say to my friends…Quality iver Quantity.
yup, when someone excludes the wizards years it shows me their age. We all understood it back then. The guy had nothing left to prove. He was already the goat. Let him play and pass the torch. It was symbolic
If MJ played for as long as Lebron has this wouldn’t even be a conversation. TBH he’d probably have 50K points or close to.
@@cvincarter ~45k, but sill more than LeFlop Blames.
@@TheRealMindCrime he had no knees at the time
@@TheRealMindCrime I remembered him actually being in MVP talks during his first Wizards year and they were on their to make the playoffs. All that came crashing down with the knee injuries.
ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the first 24 years of the 21st Century:
1) Michael Phelps, 2) Serena Williams, 3) Lionel Messi, 4) LeBron James at only number #4, 5) Tom Brady, 6) Roger Federer, 7) Simone Biles, 8) Tiger Woods, 9) Usain Bolt, 10) Kobe Bryant. However, when ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 1900 to 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the entire 100 years (the whole Century)of the 20st Century:
1) Michael Jeffrey Jordan easily won the #1 spot, 2) Babe Ruth, 3) Muhammad Ali,
4) Jim Brown, 5) Wayne Gretzky, 6) Jesse Owens, 7) Jim Thorpe, 8) Willie Mays, 9) Jack Nicklaus, 10) Babe Didrikson, 11) Joe Louis, 12) Carl Lewis, 13) Wilt Chamberlain, 14) Hank Aaron, 15) Jackie Robinson, 16) Ted Williams, 17) Magic Johnson, 18) Bill Russell. So Michael Jordan is the #1 GOAT of the whole 20th Century, and LeBron James is only the #4 Player of the 21st Century. ESPN got this one right all the way. Nobody was a better athlete than Michael Jordan because Michael Jordan was better than everybody. Look at the distance between LeBron James and the VERY next basketball player (Kobe Bryant) in their era, and look at the distance between Michael Jordan and the VERY next basketball player (Wilt Chamberlain) in their era. There are 5 athletes between LeBron James and Kobe Bryant in their era, and there are 11 people between Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain in their era. The distance between Michael Jordan and whoever you have at #2, in regards to professional basketball, is the distance between Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain on this ESPN list. Case closed. GAME OVER!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'd put Tom Brady over Lebron honestly, heck even Tiger & Usain Bolt did more for their sport than Lebron.
@@izumolee6714 Well if Tom Brady is in the conversation for being “the Michael Jordan of” football, as Tiger Woods is in the conversation for being “the Michael Jordan of” golf, and it’s not even a conversation because Usain Bolt is “the Michael Jordan of” track & field, then all three (3) athletes should all be automatically ranked above LeBron James, since Michael Jordan is easily the best and greatest to ever play the very sport that LeBron James himself attempted, yet conclusively failed to succeed at playing.
Excellent MJ GOAT case video, love that Clayton didn't see MJ play but still sees his greatness. I didn't see Bird and Magic, but they're top 10, I don't bash newer guys to make their case.
Request for rage reaction - Nick Wright has MJ ranked 3 all time (spoiler Kareem is 2, LeBalco 1).
lol Nick Wright literaly gets paid by Klutch. Of course he's gonna say that
Someone else pointed it out but yeah if the gap between Lebaby and MJ were a player he'd have a better career then Kevin Durant
Damn good point about Phil Jackson being a rookie coach. Big difference between MJ and Lefraud is that MJ was coachable.
100%
Jordan is my goat, i was born 87 so i did get to see him play. Its not close.
✊️
MJ is the GOAT, no explanation needed
☝️
every fan of jordan has a reason a valid reason! i watch the nba because of him thats my reason. nothing more nothing less if so it just add up for being a fan. he made me play basketball in real life and dream someday to like him.
I love the game because of him as well
MJ🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐💯💯💯💯💯💯
💯
We all low key love drill sergeant MJ...😂
for real lol
Thank you for the follow up. 🙏
thanks for watching with me!
MJ 🐐
daaaa GOAT
Mj's statue moved to inside the United Center. His accomplishment that carved on the statue gives me goosebump.
woah I did NOT know that!
I was one of the lucky ones i was born in 1970 i got to see Michael Jordan's college and pro careers
People around 40 and older know who the 🐐 is. I love watching those Jordan highlight reaction videos by the new generation. To them, it's highlights. To us who witnessed his career, it was a Tuesday. It sucks because there's simply not enough of his highlights on YT. He done something spectacular multiple times in every single game he ever played in.
agreed!!
I love Phil Jackson and it’s said we have to say this. Phil Jackson was a beast on and off the court when you did into his career. Let’s be real here too he coaches nothing but legends in basketball
I would love to see you make a video of why MJ is the GOAT. I know you’ve said some of your pov about the subject, but a vid of you dissecting the argument would be dope.
Kenny Smith made a great point of why Lebron should not be compared to MJ. He said MJ never had the luxury of playing on a team where one of his teammates required a double team.
It was solely Michael’s responsibility to lead the team in scoring or they didn’t win. MJ didn’t have to carry the teams offensive load for a season or two; he did this for his entire career and still made 10 Defensive 1st Team selections, as well as, 1 DPOY.
Lebron doesn’t even play defense while playing with superteams. The games a lot easier and the pressures a lot less when you’ve got 2-3 other All-Stars and Hall of Famers on your squad like Lebron has he’d nearly his entire career.
Another angle is once MJ and the Bulls began winning titles no other team was allowed to eat on his watch.
The Warriors won 4 titles during Lebron’s “so-called” reign and would’ve won another without the Draymond suspension and Bogut injury in 2016.
Lebron is a great player but he’s no MJ and honestly he shouldn’t even be named in the conversation with Kobe.
100% and that's why they would double and even triple team MJ. If he had one dude who demanded a double team it would be game over. He'd actually get some easy looks at the hoop
@@TheRealMindCrime That’s why Kobe deserves more respect for winning 2 titles without Shaq. Lebron hasn’t won anything without a superteam and has failed 6 times otherwise.
He called out his whole franchise that injury year cause it seemed like they wanted to tank season to not make playoffs, and get a good pick. I think that's crazy for a 2nd year player
yup! MJ is crazy too because if they tanked he would've gotten better help in a lottery pick but MJ has old school morals and wanted to win for the fans
Kobe had what no other player will ever have and that's he played for one of the best coaches ever and was mentored by the GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME. It's told that when Kobe wasn't acti g right Phil would get M.J on the phone while the game was going on and have him speak with Kobe
Preach bro, your commentary was on point in this video.
Salute 🫡
thank you!
Jordan worked out after that Piston's loss. In his documentary, Jordan stated he realized he needed to get physically stronger, so he worked out. Then, they came back the following year and won.
Im sure others on the team hit the gym a little harder that off-season.
yup and according to the rest of the team a lot of them joined him in the off season to get stronger
Jordan opened up so many doors/opportunities for today’s players and they shit on him for it. LeBron isn’t a billionaire without Jordan, the game doesn’t become global without Jordan and the Dream Team, players don’t make 300 million over 5 years without Jordan BUT it’s like Jordan said in Rare Air “Basketball isn’t my job it’s what I do, endorsing products is my job and 95% of my income is through endorsements. Ik there are millions of kids who want to Be Like Mike and I have a responsibility for their conduct and their future grandchildren’s conduct. Am I perfect? No BUT I feel I have an obligation to show class and professionalism to anyone trying to be like me regardless of age!!”
Seen the statue? I have been fortunate enough to have seen it times.
ohhhh man. So jealous!
Yeah, I've only been to a couple games but yeah been to the UC.
@@TheRealMindCrime I moved to Chicago in 96 as a kid and lived there for 20 years.
Because he was not perfect is what makes his legacy impressive. Imagine if he was perfect, it would have been boring. But the rise to the occasion, the falls and rises is like no other.
Exactly. No human is perfect. Its the journey to triumph that we used to celebrate.
I was watching steph curry yesterday and i was like thats the greatest player ive seen live in the end because although i do go back and watch old games i never seen kobe or Jordan live when kobe retired i was and i was watching mostly soccer in these years
For sure. Steph is special. He saved the usa team pretty much the whole tournament. The guy is amazing
@@TheRealMindCrime i really wanted France to win not only for wemby but because im tired that every time i put on the Olympics usa ends up winning im tired of hearing the usa national anthem
Great comments about Jordan fans not hating on other players! And about Jordan getting multiple beat downs by Detroit. And for me Jordan staying with his team and NOT colluding with other stars to make a run at rings but EARNING every ring he won and was FMVP for all 6 championships. Dwayne Wade has even talked about being on the phone with Lebron and watching Kobe win his 5th ring and that being the defining moment when the collusion was solidified. Not only did these 2 get Bosh but they were trying to get Chris Paul on board the Miami "ring machine". For me the famous "not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7" quote from Lebron is admitting his need for other great players and his inability to lead a team!! Also the "that one right there made me the greatest" is proof that Lebron is guilty of not having his focus on basketball but the stat sheet. I could go on and on but the last thing I want to say is the NBA and media has created awards that did not exist when Jordan played in an attempt to elevate Lebron = the in season tournament MVP and Olympic MVP ??? Please stop.
yessir!
I was born in November 1988, i vaguely remember the 1st 91-1993 3peat, however that 2nd 3peat 1995-98 i remember VIVIDLY and Black Panther was HIM
it's not diluted, because they drafted star players as well from the current roster on most teams. And the east in the '90s was stacked
This ☝️
i think every team sports needs a mom and a dad figure like a family. mj and popovic are the father figures in their teams whos pushes you and toughens you and force you to your limits while duncan and jackson are mom figures who glues the family and support the teams with compassion and try the best to make others the better versions of themselves. btw never make moms angry even dads knows its the biggest mistakes to do lol.
this is a good analogy
I watched the original earlier, and the ending of video is beautiful, and really let's you know what was going on back in day, the feeling of what was happening
yeah these vids were really well made
“We celebrate greatness.” Nailed it, TRMC! We celebrate greatest of all flavors, but when greatness is attacked, scrutiny of the accusing camp begins…
And the war starts… except my generation - born in ‘72 and my brother is your age - loves nothing more than to be challenged because we love competition.
We already grew up defending our LeBrons (or Olajuwons) and lost. If MJ didn’t repeatedly prove it on the court, the “who’s the man?” battle continued off the court. And here’s the rules: whomever is still speaking of NBA player accolades long after the other stops talking, is the winner. Bulls fans never ran out stats before we non-MJ fans stopped talking. He was just that good.
We defend Jordan today using the words and facts of yesterday’s enemies. And history has proven them right.
Finally, I’ll let all of the younger generation folks in on a secret… we’re not all from Chicago, so we hate admitting that MJ is the GOAT 🤫 but that’s what MEN do.
Absolutely! MJ broke the hearts of millions by beating our home teams and favorite players. He earned our respect and thats why we defend him when people say crazy things like he is overrated.
I love seeing clips of MJ's teammates talk about him. Those like Purdue, Wennington, Kukoc, and Randy Brown understood what he was trying to do. Others talk about him being an ass(Pippen, Buschler, Scott Williams), but I see a number of clips in games where those same teammates are celebrating the wins they got with Jordan. I've also seen clips of him praising those same teammates, like when he promised Bobby Hansen he would win him a ring or when he passed off to Kerr for the win of the 5th ring. It seems that a lot of the people who complain about him were those who had problems keeping up to his standards...
Bob Knight was asked what he thought about the MJ vs. Lebron as the GOAT question.Bob Knight replied-That’s not even a real question.Michael is the greatest to ever play the game because he approached defense with as much tenacity as he did offense.
The 'watered down league' argument is so dumb...because EVERYONE playing in that era had the exact same advantage. If the league was so 'watered down' why weren't there loads of other Michael Jordans taking advantage of this supposed easy watered down league?
exactly! plus most of those expansion teams were actually really good within a few years. Hornets and Magic off the top of my head. They were contenders
@TheRealMindCrime this argument goes right along with the dumb 'evolution' arguments -- they try to argue that Jordan was basically a time traveler from the much advanced future. As if he was the only good player in the 90s. As if evolution happens in one generation. 🙄
@@TheRealMindCrime if Penny Hardaway never suffered that injury I believe they would have at least two finals together. People forget how much of a beast Shaw was as on the Orlando magic.😮😮😮
Yeah some of the expansion teams were magic, heat, and hornets. Who were comprised of bums like Shaq, penny, Horace grant, nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, Alonzo mourning, Tim Hardaway, Jamal mashburn, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Larry Johnson, Alonzo mourning, mugsy bogues, Kendall gill, etc.
Yeah those players really watered down the league....
@TheRealMindCrime that's because the hornets took bj Armstrong and grant left to the magic 2 championship teammates from the bulls. It's like people don't think. It's like shooting mindless zombies. Can't argue with people who don't think because they won't understand the concept.
He's not pretending MJ is perfect, making he's not working as hard to make the argument as he was for LeBron.
Lebum vid was full of excuses for his failures
I don't think he needed to argue MJ's case as much lol. It seems pretty obvious who's the goat after watching both of these vids in one day
@@TheRealMindCrime yeah no doubt just wish he would have given Wade Bosh Kyrie Love AD and the endless superstar players the same credit he gave Jordan teammates
Agreed!
Michael Jordan doesn't need to be "Making the Case" because he just blows away the competition. LeBron is 2 steps behind and MJ's 2 steps ahead. Besides, I still say Larry Bird was ahead of LeBron in the GOAT debate. Michael changed the NBA back in the 80's and according to AntMan, he was the only talented player 25-40 years ago. We all know that can't be true. But Jordan is hands down the Best & Greatest Player of All-Time, on both sides of the court.
I wore #23 in college bc Mike cultivated that love of compet Even so - I have a Larry Bird Indiana State Jersey framed in my room. My grandparents, who I watched 90's basketball with, made sure I understood the greats of each generation stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before them.
Everything he said Jordan fans do -describes what Lebron fans do perfectly. The "plumber" insult didn't become a thing until LeBron's current head coach said it on the network that has degraded sports discourse to an infantile level.
& Scottie is the one responsible for a more balanced approach on the Bulls with selfless, & etc? The same Scottie Pippen who took himself out for not getting the last shot & called Phil a racist for it?
Scottie is generational(ly overrated by Klutch Kool-Aid consumers).
i literally agree with all of your takes here
He really only played 11 years and 35 games with the bulls
Yup. People forget about that injury and his time playing baseball
Absolutely. All those accolades within that timeframe is just hilariously, and ridiculously mindblowing 🤦🏽♂️😂✊🏼💪🏼😤
People need to understand something:
Jordan is a sports ICON. LeBron isnt on the same level.....not on the same level MJ ever was. That's not bashing the dude, its just the truth.
MJ will always be the GOAT because he took basketball to heights never seen before. LeBron can never claim that. MJ is his own player who is not tethered to anyone.......LeBron is absolutely STUCK in MJ's shadow and never forged his own positive legacy.
Look no further than LeBron's jersey numbers: 23 (MJ's number) and 6 (number of rings MJ won). His whole career is an attempt to better than MJ and almost trying to erase him but he doesnt understand that his career is nothing WITHOUT the legacy of MJ. Even Kobe had the sense to pick different jersey numbers......even 24 and 8 became HIS OWN numbers.
Dude is forever chasing MJ's ghost and thats all the proof you need that MJ is STILL the GOAT.
The most underrated point is that people watching today who didn’t watch during Jordan’s day don’t want a reality where they never got to see the GOAT playing. It’s kind of sad to think that you were born a decade or more late and it already passed you by.
It’s the truth, but that’s why it’s not told as such 😉
it is sad. When someone older talks about watching Wilt or Russell play I listen. I wish these young ones would listen when we talk about MJ. It was all real. He was just that good
Kids who were too young to see MJ's career will never quite understand. The reason why we don't hate on guys like Bird, Magic or Kareem etc, is because the GOAT debate wasn't a huge thing. MJ started playing, and it was just totally natural to think 'omg, this dude is by far the best player in the world'. We weren't looking for it, but he just delivered it.
For some reason, many LeBron fans have made the GOAT debate something that, for some reason, needs to happen. No, a crowning of a GOAT just organically happens, and it never organically happened for LeBron.
I think the point regarding Jordan playing in a "diluted league" with expansion teams is a weird point to mention, especially when there are Bill Russell detractors who don't consider him in the GOAT convo for being successful in a league with less than 30 teams
Post Video Comment: I enjoyed your commentary on this one. I saw earlier that you put out the Lebron James Video, which I hoped you would follow with the Jordan video. I am not sure if it is my PC, but it seemed like the last part of Clayton's video was not included. Maybe it got edited out for some reason, but the case was made. It is that final part that made me a big fan of Clayton's channel. This video about MJ being the GOAT is the first I ever watched of his. I am still hoping to see you react to a one or two part video on the Kobe "Legends" video by Clayton as well. Since you are a Suns fan, Thinking Basketball did a video on Steve Nash earlier this year from a new series of his called "Offensive Legends" I think you would like too. Appreciate your hard work, with the two-a-day uploads. It gives me a lot to content to check out.
I'm not sure what happened with the ending......sorry if I botched it somehow. Thanks for the kind words though, I'll keep improving over here
What I find funny about this generation is LeBron, LeBron, LeBron BUT on the court they’re wearing Jordan 11’s, 12’s or 13’s 🙏🙏
I actually think it's a little disrespectful in this video when he says Jordan was first and foremost a brand. Nah, dude.
I saw thsi video before and I have it a thumbs down, I am pretty sure it was for a reason and this was probably one of them. There must have been a lot of slick dissing of MJ in this video for me to give a it a thumbs down
Yeah I've seen most of his making the case videos, and I don't recall any others saying as many negative things or low key diss things. I don't dislike this video, but it definitely has suspect moments and he left out a ton of pro-jordan info, too.
that's true! Maybe it's his age because the world sees Jordan brand everywhere and he didn't get to watch him play. I dunno, but I do know that you have a good point.
THE TOP 15 ALL TIME:
1. Michael Jordan - the greatest player and the greatest career in NBA history. Most dominant offensive force and one of the games best defenders.
6x Champ 6x FMVP 5x MVP
2. Bill Russell - the greatest winner and greatest defensive force in NBA and sports history. A legend on/off court. The key to NBA first dynasty.
11x Champ 5x FMVP 5x MVP
3. Magic Johnson - the great PG ever (so far…). REVOLUTIONIZED his position and saved the NBA.
5x Champ 3x FMVP 3xMVP
4. LeBron James - the greatest longevity in sports history. One of the most dominant forces ever and top5 all round player.
4x Champ 4x FMVP 4x MVP
5. Tim Duncan - best PF ever. One of the most fundamentally sound players ever. Played both ends at the highest level for 15 seasons.
5x Champ 3x FMVP 2x MVP
6. Kareem Abdul Jabar - owner of the most dominant go-to move on offense. The HOOK. The previous scoring leader and lead all points for 4 decades. The greatest BASKETBALL career ever.
Prep to Pro.
6x Champ 2x FMVP 6x MVP
7. Kobe Bryant - see number 1 and dilute the athleticism and physical intangibles and that’s what you got.
Arguably the greatest warrior in NBA history.
5x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP
8. Shaquille O’Neal - the most dominant ever. The immovable object/unstoppable force. Shaq was the definition of dominance.
4x Champ 3x FMVP 1x MVP
9. Larry Bird - maybe the most legendary on the list. Precursor to Jokic but better. One of the most skilled & clutch players ever.
In any sport.
3x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP
10. Hakeem Olajuwon - back to back.
The best of the mid90’s and second best player in the era. Hakeem is like Russell but with AllNBA offensive ability.
2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP
11. Wilt Chamberlain - the games most prolific scorers. Arguably it’s greatest defender as well. The man could do it all. Even lead the league in assist at 7”2. Wilt IS unparalleled.
GOAT athlete.
2x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP
12. Steph Curry - the games most prolific shooter and one of its greatest scorers. REVOLUTIONIZED the game forever. STILL GOING.
4x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP
13. Isaiah Thomas - ZEKE. CP3 before CP3 but nastier and meaner. A warrior and one of the games greatest strategist and generals. Quietly a top5 passer.
2x Champ 2x FMVP
14. Oscar Robertson - the greatest all around basketball player ever. Could do everything at a AllNBA level.
Changed the way players were interpreted and influenced generations.
1x Champ 2x MVP
15. Kevin Durant - the Slim Reaper is likely the most ideal offensive weapon ever. Can hit from anywhere, anytime over anyone. Hard to beat and impossible to match that level of offensive dominance.
2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP
Nice list!
@@conduitofthegospeldarrellb9154 Amen best ever made
@@mhf1979 thanks
Pretty good list, but in my opinion Bill Russell and Magic are too high and Isiah Thomas shouldn't be on it. I can think of 20 players that aren't on this list who I would select over Isiah Thomas
To name a few that I would take over Isiah Thomas...Dr J, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Giannis, Dirk, D Wade, Allen Iverson, Scottie Pippen, Kevin Mchale, Robert Perish, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Oscar Robertson...
Not only do us old skool fans celebrate greatness, but we recognize and give credit to mature professionalism and great character, and probably most of all, integrity. MJ, Magic, Bird, and many more from those days is to the core exactly that. They carried themselves as if they had an obligation to be an example for the people and especially the youth. They knew they were being watched and know that the kids will copycat whatever they did. Not only basketball skills, but the way they handled themselves within society. As for me, that’s mostly the reasons why I can’t stand or watch these dudes play. Every darn basketball they make they have to do an immature celebration than get their a$$es back on defense. Cry and whine to the refs at every call. It’s just pathetic and disgraceful.
exactly. There are many greats I respect. I never felt a need to discredit what wilt, russell, kareem, bird, magic, etc did in order to prop MJ up.
Jordan helped creating scottie jordan and scottie helped creating the champion bulls team (jordans mentality) and this bulls team decorated phill jackson in the best way possible
Phil Jackson was Doug Collins assistant coach
yup, and tex was there too
He scored like nobody else every game every second of the game he defended like nobody else every game every second he assisted to his teammates especially like nobody else in the game every second in the game (watch the eleven games back to back tripple doubles as pointguard) man that is way he is the goat to us and by the way he was winning like nobody else every game in every finals ... not human
Mj all day baby
Yessir!!
Our generation was brought up with RESPECT TO/FOR THE PAST!! Basketball was invented by Dr. James Naismith in 1891 in Springfield, Ma. The NBA was the NBL from 1930 until 43 when it dissolved and became the NBA in 46 with Maurice Podoloff as the first commissioner of the league until 63. I don’t just play ik the history of the game
Looking forward to you doing a "Making The Case" on Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
Planning on that, wilt, and russell
Great insight regarding MJ filling bad cop role to Jackson's laid-back, zen approach. Whereas Duncan's mild demeanor was offset by Pop's disciplinarian role.
Yup! It seems thats a good dynamic in basketball. A teacher and an enforcer per say.
MJ, LeBron and Kobe superstans are 3 peas in the same pod, all have significant numbers of people that will go after other players and shit on them for no reason, most of the time it's the other 2
I think Scottie can be compared to Draymond by being elite defensive point forwards, but probably wouldn’t be hall of famers without MJ, Curry and the system making them look good.
I can see that. If Lamar Odom was with Kobe for all 6 rings I also think more people would compare the two. Lamar played Scotties role in those 2 rings.
Did you watch the gold medal game today? Steph was UNREAL in clutch time and saved LeBron again.
Steph carried LeBron, needed a greater star to win like Kobe in 08, shame Curry didn't get MVP. Shoot I'd take Jokic and Wagner over LeBron.
yeah i did! They were giving me a scare again just like every game but Steph rescued us yet again. The dude is amazing. He is our true leader imo
Steph ended up carrying the whole team this tournament. Multiple games we would've lost if not for the most amazing shooting performances ever.
@@TheRealMindCrime The saddest part of it all is that they gave LeBron the MVP when Steph clearly saved him.
Let's not forget how good Wade was in the 08 finals vs Spain. Kobe gets the attention for what he did at the end but Wade was a dog all game long!
I went to Chicago in 2021. Of course, I went to The United Center only to be greatly disappointed because they had moved the statue inside. There were covid tents all over the parking lots. Not sure why they moved the statue inside.
oh wow....I wonder if it was to protect it because of all the rioting going on during that time. Either way I'm glad it's safe
Everyone back in my day (the 90s) wanted to wear number 23. I always wanted to wear #69, but my high school team didn't have it and my junior college coach said no. 😂
MJ 11-0 championship games. 6 NBA Championship 2 Olympic gold, 1 College championship, 2 FIBA
facts!!!!
Never seen it stated that way before. Truth.
Great point about Phil and Scottie. Without Michael,phil is just another coach, scottie is Stacy augmon
Yup. At that time the idea of firing doug collins who just made it to the conference finals for a rookie head coach named phil that no one knew was insane! But it did work out.
@44:51 completely understandable. Looking at the Warriors, Klay & Steph are mostly reserved. Then you have Draymond and see how his practices are, punishing a teammate. Completely different dynamics. But they're winning basketball.
Also, when the title is on the line, its nice to have a coach who has a system, has reins over their superstar. I would be curious to see LeBron, or Jokic or Durant having a legendary coach put them in their systems.
I think one example that popped in my head was Larry Brown with Allen Iverson. Brown took that Sixers team to the Finals. He did it by creating the best team environment. Same thing as the Heat, and Pat Riley, who believed in all 15 players, or all hands on deck. It makes just makes more sense.
Agreed. I personally don't think Lebron or KD would listen to a great coach like Phil. Jokic I dunno
That lay up is on the video game Bulls vs Blazers
Love to see you react to Clayton's Larry Bird GOAT vid if you haven't already
will do!
I'm a long time Lakers fan, and I use to make an argument that magic was the goat but if I'm being honest with myself mj is by far the greatest....the real debate is ranking 2 through 10
Congratulations. Simome Biles was voted # 7 on ESPN’s list too. Awesome. ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the first 24 years of the 21st Century:
1) Michael Phelps, 2) Serena Williams, 3) Lionel Messi, 4) LeBron James, 5) Tom Brady, 6) Roger Federer, 7) Simone Biles, 8) Tiger Woods, 9) Usain Bolt, 10) Kobe Bryant. When ESPN ranked the Top 100 professional athletes since 1900 to 2000 aka the Top 100 pro-athletes of the entire 100 years (the whole Century)of the 20st Century:
1) Michael Jeffrey Jordan easily won the #1 spot, 2) Babe Ruth, 3) Muhammad Ali,
4) Jim Brown, 5) Wayne Gretzky, 6) Jesse Owens, 7) Jim Thorpe, 8) Willie Mays, 9) Jack Nicklaus, 10) Babe Didrikson, 11) Joe Louis, 12) Carl Lewis, 13) Wilt Chamberlain, 14) Hank Aaron, 15) Jackie Robinson, 16) Ted Williams, 17) Magic Johnson, 18) Bill Russell. 👀
oh man I got Simone Biles over Lebron any day! Carl Lewis too and so many more on this list.
@@TheRealMindCrime Yea RMC, and I definitely have Usain Bolt over LeBron James because like Michael Phelps is the Michael Jordan of Swimming, Usain Bolt is the Michael Jordan of Track & Field, just as Simone Biles is likely viewed as the Michael Jordan of gymnastics.
Dud you react to Damger Production video of Jordan vs LeBron? That video was epic 👌 👏 👏👏👏👏👏🔥🔥🔥 🔥
Yes I have. Heres the link
th-cam.com/video/qew0V4xi4yY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VN-IFXK9x85lZrgA
Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4,....I didn't realize he was referring to Championship defeats. 😆😅🤣😂
Being young is a silly excuse. I wasn't alive to see Bruce Lee or Muhammad Ali. But, I believe they're GOATs. People don't educate themselves. Yet want to pretend to have a valid opinion. Having a favorite is one thing. But if people don't agree with you. Suddenly there's a problem.
Trust me, Bruce Lee and Muhammad Ali live up to the hype.
Certain things in basketball sort of broke my heart. Like when LeBron went to Miami I stopped watching for a few years (also around that time Nash left the suns and I knew that run was over, even though I think they were like a .500 team before he left) Then this kid Curry came along and got me interested again. Then KD went to the Warriors and it killed my interest in basketball again. It wasn't until the Last Dance that I started getting back into it again.
same here. Between LBJ and KD they kinda ruined basketball for me for a few years there
@@TheRealMindCrime Thank god for The Last Dance. I realized I actually love the game and not the players.
MJ accepted Phil Jackson. However, Phil needed MJ, way more, Phil Jackson needed to have an all world athlete like an MJ or a Kobe. If he didn't, then why couldn't he win any more championships with Pippen or Carmelo Anthony 😂
☝️
The reason why we don't bash the greats before Jordan , cause Jordan always praised the greats before him! Unlike the all time great Reddick say the NBA was full of plumbers, who the eff is Reddick??
100% our era respected the greats. Lebron has led his fans into a mission of rewrrting history
Because we grew up on MJ saying "I don't know, I didn't play against Jerry West, I didn't play against prime Doc J...".
Reddick a podcaster soon to be scapegoat.
@@johnthomas3161 correct, he's getting ALL the blame if they LeFlop 😂
I really don't like how this guy is ignoring the context that you had to point out. It just reminds me of all these LeBots that regurgitate "MJ needed Pippen" or "MJ needed Phil Jackson" with no context as to how they got to the level they achieved. Just because their favorite player actually needed Wade/Bosh, Kyrie/Love, and AD they need to try dragging MJ down saying he needed help too. There's a difference in being the reason someone became great and joining up with people who were already great.
Right??? He can bring context to everything else but Jordan lol. He's a lebron bot
lol fair enough. And this was me trying not to pause to much to chime in but i had to in order to get that context.
@@TheRealMindCrime Appreciate it man
Pause video: For context, after this video, Clayton did make a video critcizing MJ's tenure with the Wizards. I've always disagreed with many points he made in that particular video, and I think MJ's time with the wizards should be included with his case in this video. That stated, his time with the Bulls has personally convinced me that he is the Greatest to ever put leather through nylon. His Wizards tenure was phenomenal as well.
agreed! Seems like only people were watched the wizards years actually get it. Those years are very misunderstood by many
21:10 and the Bulls were the only team that pushed the Pistons during their 89 & 90 championship runs; if my memory serves me correctly, once the Bulls swept the Pistons, Bulls beat them every time they played against each other.
kinda off topic but who do you think is the best team of all time?
the channel also has making the case videos for teams
it's hard....by record its the 95-96 Bulls but I've always believed the 85 Celtics were so stacked and perfectly crafted that I think that may be it. On paper the 2011 Heat should have been the greatest but they didn't even come close
The NBA should retire #23 under MJ.
100%
Agreed
Wow, I never thought about it but you're right. Scottie is very similar to LeBron. Good at everything but not amazing at anything (except for Scottie's defense) but not THAT GUY. They both need THAT GUY to close the game out.
yup!!! pip is better at defense and lebron is better at offense but they both have that same mentality and need for a closer
I just dont get how people can go from winning the game to making it to the finals but NOT winning is better
Flopping oooo he is my goat, blaming my mates and coches oooo hes my goat not playing defens and dissapear in the important last minuits of the game oooo heee is the goat
I'll never understand that mentality either.
The only reason all of us are even having this conversation is because of the media propaganda for Lefraud.
There wasn’t a player before Jordan or after that even compares to him. No one especially Leflop who in my opinion isn’t even top 20 best players of all time.
✊️
If player X were to retire today with 2 rings, 2 fmvps, 1 mvp, 1dpoy, 4 all defensive 1st teams, 9 scoring titles, and 3 steals titles. You would say this player was for sure a first ballot hall of famer!
Well player x is the difference in accomplishments between MJ and LeBron.
So basically LeBron + 1st ballot HOFer = MJ! And that is just to tie MJ in accomplishments, you need more to surpass him.
So yes the GOAT argument starts and end with MJ. Like Larry bird said before the 3pt contest one year, the rest of y'all all playing for second place (paraphrasing). I believe the exact quote was "which one of you guys is coming in second place"....
Yup!!!!
LeBron fans: “LeBron only lost because he didn’t have enough help
Basketball fans: “MJ had to lose to Boston and Detroit in order to learn how to win
That’s the difference between us👍🏽
Lebron had to go to Miami to learn how to win from Wade lol. MJ learned exactly the way you said here
I’ve been saying the same exact thing about the old “diluted” NBA. Critical thinking isn’t a LeBronze fans strong suit.
Clay didnt even bring up that MJ three-peated twice while "being on top"
lol yup
they're ignoring MJ's Wizard years when he was still a top 10 player when he was healthy and pushing 40. if they ignore it enough, they will keep pushing the narrative that he was awful as a Wizard but LeBron (top 20 player nowadays) is still great...
100%
I never ignore the Wizards years. Its part of his story
I like how he pointed coaching other players Jordon played with but not all the Top 75 players Lebron has had. But whatever, its not a big deal. I overall don't think he said too much in this video.
Clayton came off extremely bad in this video IMO, he lied for more a less the first five minutes. Jordan fans generally don't bash anyone not named LeBron, Jordan himself acknowledges his failures so his fans embrace his losses as well, this is the issue with people that are from the LeBaldo era they cannot even make a case for MJ without their blatant bias coming through. In fact there is only 1 fanbase that pretends their guys losses never happened or weren't his fault. I also find the Phila Jackson argument disingenuous because you can't say Jordan had the greatest coach ever then claim LeBron has never had a great coach because Spoelstra hadn't developed into who he is yet.
yeah I definitely had to pause and push back on a lot of that stuff. I've never heard an MJ fan claim Jordan never lost. We just say he never lost a championship game or series which is facts.
I think you meant LeBalco, but "LeBaldo" cracked me up 😂
I just came back from the Arizona Cardinals vs New Orleans saints pre season game saints won I'm a cowboys fan surrounded by birds 😂😂😂
Woah cool!
Pippen is a poor man’s kawhi
i'd still take pippen though cuz KL is always injured lol
@@TheRealMindCrime I agree but he is not in the same league offensively as kawhi
Agreed 100%
I forget what video I watch but it helped me appreciate Jordan's Wizards period. Where I can agree that the Wizards era is not pretty if you just gloss over it. Adding Jordan turned the Wizards from one of the worst in the league into a title contender over night. LBJ has never done that, he needs more in order to be a title contender.
Im glad you get it now. Those years was just an encore. His goat status was already established and he just came back to give us a little more
39:42 I will say, clutch sports isn’t the originator of that argument. Bill Russell has talked about making that argument directly to Jordan as well.
You have to remember that team without MJ also lost Horace Grant also!
94?