Your conclusion is consistent with that of Lee Parkes in a recent interview on the motojitsu channel. He also felt that repetition and experience of one style builds a higher skill level, and ability to make minor adjustments to perfect that style. It’s a bit of a muscle memory type of tale.
Good approach to this video. I think it should be mentioned that body position can only take you so far when you’re trying to go faster. It matters more how well you approach the corners, hit apexes, get good drive on the exit, and take correct lines between corners. Which all warrant their own video, at least, for a full explanation.
Great video - often wondered. On your results, I would (also) conclude that your second set (lap 7,8,9) is faster because you're properly warmed-up (regardless of style according to times). As for mix being quicker - this is (also) due to the fact that this is how you normally ride and you're more aggressive knowing your limits. It does make sense from a steering/geometry perspective that long sweeping curves are hang-out and tighter ones are foot-out (to me at least). Great vid - thanks!
For me its either Foot Out on extreme corners BUT on Easy corners, Foot out and Hanging off is not necessary at all. Also i dont think speed is the only thing to be considered. The weight distribution technique for better stability is totally different between the two methods in varying speeds. I also find footout to be much more forgiving for the rider in a lowside crash compared to hanging off. All that precious ground clearance goes to waste when hanging off as well.
Love the videos, maybe we will race some time! I find your assessment is accurate. At a big track I will hang off entirely, and at a kart track it will be all foot out.
Diogo Moreira at Alcarras GP showed that when you do the knee down technique right you can go faster. The kid won the GP and left behind all the big guys of the championship.
I feel like foot out only applies to motocross. That was the initial reasoning for foot coming off the bike in any sport nowadays, It originated in the burm. It has slowly transgressed into every other two wheeled sport. With the motor.
Bind somthing heavy to your feet then only advantage of leg dangle or foot out technique will get highlighted. I think it helps to counter the rear end loosing-coming forward' while breaking on tight corner. It increases the lateral moment of inertia by widening the weight distribution of riders' body. 🤔
I change my form on dirt and road. Leg out to catch my self at lower speeds and hang off when on asphalt. I thinks that's why motocross was probably an influence on the this form or technique.
The difference can't be tested with an amateur rider; they have to be tested from a pro rider that goes really fast with both styles to really understand the difference
Good clip and probably one of the most interesting parts of riding supermotos... The ability of the bike and rider technique....And to add to the mix...I also with some tight high speed corners go leg out to start and then tuck in... immitating Motogp style...Ive been able to get rid of the chicken strips on the front tyre with this technique... on road too, not track.
The only other observation is your times were quicker after the tyres were well and truly warmed up in both sessions. Good video. Would be interesting to see telemetry for corners as comparison.
Why can't you brake later while hanging off? Hanging off keeps the bike more upright so it's got to be a faster cornering technique. I think Valentino Rossi is fast for some other reason other than the leg out thing.
enjoy ur vids.whatever technique gets th job done is kool.im ol flat track racer frm th 6os 7os,short track ,half mile n th mile..i stil lik to toss my little supermoto on its cases, back it in to scrub off speed,squaring th corner then track thru apex,at this point my knee can b under handlebar against my arm n tight corners physically holding her down..im 75yrs old so giv me sum slack for th ramble,i shouldnt b going this quick but i lik th feeling.also going into or out of sum corners i leg dangle alot to hold my line or simply put a knee out .actually i dnt think jst muscle memory..check out sum old mile races like ama du quion mile scott parker n kevin atherton..very close ,fast racing..
You are clearly more comfortable hanging-off. You have a lot of room in improving your technique backing it in and your body language in foot-out. The mixed style might be okay up to the Pro level, at that point foot-out rules! Getting the foot-out technique just right takes a lot longer to learn than hanging-off. It would be interesting to see you keep practicing backing it in & foot-out method and go compare the two again in the future. Great video though and keep it up!!!
Not all engines make power after a certain RPM. Therefore, shifting at the specific RPM where the engine makes its power makes for quicker acceleration.
Ya but a 450 makes power in every gear... he is shifting 1 gear then doesn’t build rpm and shifts again... I’m wondering why also cuz there’s no way he makes more power in let’s say 4th gear compared to 3rd for example
dude so i never "foot-out" but i do use that exact body positioning technique with the backend slide on tight corners maybe cuz i am self taught on my supermotoing and always felt more comfortable keeping my foot in but the rest of my body is contorted into the foot-out position especially when im sweeping tight corners, but i use the whole technique to sweep (drift) the corner faster then grab traction and use the centrifugal force to add traction as i shift into that torque band on the way out of the corner
I was watching earlier Rallye Moto des Coteaux 2019. it had mix type of bikes. I was thinking if these supersport bike guys foot out would had been faster on that super tight corner?
Great video! Just LOL at all the comments about short-shifting... Ride a single cylinder racebike like the FS450 you dummies and maybe you will understand. Even a 701 is drastically different from any 3-4 cylinder bike when it comes to shifting, the gears are MUCH shorter.
Nice video Mike! Apologies if this has been asked before, but which seat is that? Looks like it has some stomp grip-ish areas; I recently switched to SM and I can't figure out how to keep my weight from my arms in hard braking.
Aesthetically, the hanging off style looks more refined and elegant. The foot out style looks like it says, “whoa, I’m going in way too hot, better put my foot out.” The hanging off style says, “no problem, I got it handled.”
Dont be fooled by the sound.. its a 1 cyl. Bike... Hes probably around 7k... I know my wr peaks at 8k but on a kart track you dont need all the power... Its more about flow...
Have you tried putting weight on the inside foot peg? It seems that this would provide even better physics than leaning out because it is lowering your center of gravity. Sometimes when I come in too hot in a corner, I find that putting my weight on the inside peg saves me.
Maybe you just push the bike in the corner (holding the lean angle) with the inside peg stepping. That is why it feels saving, otherwise your brain would have risen the bike to abort.
So theoretically it would be the fastest to break into a corner with your leg out then switch to a hang-off. But i guess thats a little hard to pull off.
hanging out is done incorrect way, and it's a bit incorrect bike for hanging out, i know one girl from moto3 and she rides small supermoto bike on cart track, as bike is small it's uncomfortable to foot out without wasting time, so hanging out is faster, but on high bike leg out will be faster and more stable because of riding position. Actually even with leg out you do hanging out, all weight goes to outer foot rest, and body angle should be more than bike lean angle, as much as possible. On sport bike you just can hang out more than on supermoto because tank helps to hold on bike. On enduro track hanging out will also help to ride faster but you might lose traction and while hanging out it's hard to save bike from falling.
How would you say seat height affects foot out? I'm starting to think lower seat height bikes have a harder time doing foot out, because there is less space. Is this correct?
What if keeping the foot on the peg and not hanging off makes me most comfortable? Other than extreme lean angle resulting in the foot possibly hitting the asphalt, is there any reason to put the foot out? I layed my supermoto over today to see how far it has to got to drag a peg and I would say the precise lean angle is "far as fuck". Now the foot often hangs below the peg, but why not simply put your toes on the peg instead of hanging your entire leg out?
Watching S1gp the best riders in the world most of them are foot out. But it depends what you are riding. You’re gonna do knee out if you are dirt? Idk just riding preference
Not sure why but knee down seems to be an upcoming trend, all the old supermoto hero's used foot out. I personally think hanging off looks foolish on a supermoto. What's next. knee out on a motocross track ?
@@HochstartHarry Indeed it was. Just the concentration (fatigue) of having repeat the same technique every corner in stead of taking it like it feels the best (gut feeling) makes it slower. Pilot experience is the most powerful computer to analyze cornering. You do a fantastic job trying to explain it.👍
@@daviddewilde8041 you have a point.. but i guess in a natural habitat you do whatfeels right anyways.. he was just showing that foot out has its pros, but so does knee down... It really depends on the Turn and you cant say that either one is better, it just depends..
2:03 and THEN I'm going to give it a Doug score!
😂
This is brilliant. Exactly the answer im looking for.
You should continue the history video !
Your conclusion is consistent with that of Lee Parkes in a recent interview on the motojitsu channel. He also felt that repetition and experience of one style builds a higher skill level, and ability to make minor adjustments to perfect that style. It’s a bit of a muscle memory type of tale.
1:09 Somebody crashed while riding
Good approach to this video. I think it should be mentioned that body position can only take you so far when you’re trying to go faster. It matters more how well you approach the corners, hit apexes, get good drive on the exit, and take correct lines between corners. Which all warrant their own video, at least, for a full explanation.
Great video - often wondered. On your results, I would (also) conclude that your second set (lap 7,8,9) is faster because you're properly warmed-up (regardless of style according to times). As for mix being quicker - this is (also) due to the fact that this is how you normally ride and you're more aggressive knowing your limits. It does make sense from a steering/geometry perspective that long sweeping curves are hang-out and tighter ones are foot-out (to me at least). Great vid - thanks!
Beautiful shot with a great song that on the last seconds of this clip.
I like seeing how the brake line extends when you get on it and compresses when you start to brake.
For me its either Foot Out on extreme corners BUT on Easy corners, Foot out and Hanging off is not necessary at all.
Also i dont think speed is the only thing to be considered. The weight distribution technique for better stability is totally different between the two methods in varying speeds. I also find footout to be much more forgiving for the rider in a lowside crash compared to hanging off. All that precious ground clearance goes to waste when hanging off as well.
Makes a lot of sense. I have found quick corners it will be knee out, but on tight corners or lots of switching of directions foot out is better.
Love the videos, maybe we will race some time! I find your assessment is accurate. At a big track I will hang off entirely, and at a kart track it will be all foot out.
Diogo Moreira at Alcarras GP showed that when you do the knee down technique right you can go faster. The kid won the GP and left behind all the big guys of the championship.
Nice FS 450 Mike. Now you need to do this video again with the 701 to see how much the added weight and hp differences add to the track time.
I am definitely slower on that track with the 701. Worth trying with a proper set of slicks on it.
Nice video although I can't say I've ever been a fan of looking at a riders ass with the camera at the back of the bike 😂
Unless its your mom riding it?
@@chris.pbacon1811 damn bro XD
Awesome video. Thanks!
IDK why, but when im riding in "Foot out" style, i feel myself more safety :D
I'm always concerned about putting my foot down and breaking my leg if I were to crash. I'd much rather just fall on my side
I feel like foot out only applies to motocross. That was the initial reasoning for foot coming off the bike in any sport nowadays, It originated in the burm. It has slowly transgressed into every other two wheeled sport. With the motor.
Bind somthing heavy to your feet then only advantage of leg dangle or foot out technique will get highlighted. I think it helps to counter the rear end loosing-coming forward' while breaking on tight corner. It increases the lateral moment of inertia by widening the weight distribution of riders' body. 🤔
That's exactly what Marc Marquez answered when asked why he dangled his leg while hard-breaking.
I change my form on dirt and road. Leg out to catch my self at lower speeds and hang off when on asphalt. I thinks that's why motocross was probably an influence on the this form or technique.
The difference can't be tested with an amateur rider; they have to be tested from a pro rider that goes really fast with both styles to really understand the difference
Good clip and probably one of the most interesting parts of riding supermotos... The ability of the bike and rider technique....And to add to the mix...I also with some tight high speed corners go leg out to start and then tuck in... immitating Motogp style...Ive been able to get rid of the chicken strips on the front tyre with this technique... on road too, not track.
Very cool info. I wouldn't have guessed that result haha.
The only other observation is your times were quicker after the tyres were well and truly warmed up in both sessions. Good video. Would be interesting to see telemetry for corners as comparison.
Another quality content video
Many thanks for the video! And only happy sportbike riders are quietly laughing at this flour of choice :)
Why can't you brake later while hanging off? Hanging off keeps the bike more upright so it's got to be a faster cornering technique. I think Valentino Rossi is fast for some other reason other than the leg out thing.
enjoy ur vids.whatever technique gets th job done is kool.im ol flat track racer frm th 6os 7os,short track ,half mile n th mile..i stil lik to toss my little supermoto on its cases, back it in to scrub off speed,squaring th corner then track thru apex,at this point my knee can b under handlebar against my arm n tight corners physically holding her down..im 75yrs old so giv me sum slack for th ramble,i shouldnt b going this quick but i lik th feeling.also going into or out of sum corners i leg dangle alot to hold my line or simply put a knee out .actually i dnt think jst muscle memory..check out sum old mile races like ama du quion mile scott parker n kevin atherton..very close ,fast racing..
Love your videos man! And that bike! 😍😍
What kind of bike is that?
@@chanhyun4412 husqvarna FS450 (my dream bike... ) ☺️
@@brucesmotorcycleshop3729 thanks!
You are clearly more comfortable hanging-off. You have a lot of room in improving your technique backing it in and your body language in foot-out.
The mixed style might be okay up to the Pro level, at that point foot-out rules! Getting the foot-out technique just right takes a lot longer to learn than hanging-off. It would be interesting to see you keep practicing backing it in & foot-out method and go compare the two again in the future.
Great video though and keep it up!!!
Why are you changing 2 gears without using all the engine power?. I think you can improve your lap time by using you engine more!
Not all engines make power after a certain RPM. Therefore, shifting at the specific RPM where the engine makes its power makes for quicker acceleration.
Ya but a 450 makes power in every gear... he is shifting 1 gear then doesn’t build rpm and shifts again... I’m wondering why also cuz there’s no way he makes more power in let’s say 4th gear compared to 3rd for example
The technique is called short shifting. It's advantageous on the track with certain corners/gearing.
He is. His gearing is just so short that he has to shift more often.
Or he short shifts so it does not wheelie
I definitely prefer hanging off, but I’m from road race background ❤. Putting my foot down feels wrong 😑!
dude so i never "foot-out" but i do use that exact body positioning technique with the backend slide on tight corners maybe cuz i am self taught on my supermotoing and always felt more comfortable keeping my foot in but the rest of my body is contorted into the foot-out position especially when im sweeping tight corners, but i use the whole technique to sweep (drift) the corner faster then grab traction and use the centrifugal force to add traction as i shift into that torque band on the way out of the corner
I had to use foot out cause I was always tucking the front
just by the two shots in the beginning hanging off is faster but they both seem to be looking to accomplish different things at different times
I was watching earlier Rallye Moto des Coteaux 2019. it had mix type of bikes. I was thinking if these supersport bike guys foot out would had been faster on that super tight corner?
I prefer foot out i feel safer with that in case i Fall i can safe it
Great video! Just LOL at all the comments about short-shifting... Ride a single cylinder racebike like the FS450 you dummies and maybe you will understand. Even a 701 is drastically different from any 3-4 cylinder bike when it comes to shifting, the gears are MUCH shorter.
Nice video Mike! Apologies if this has been asked before, but which seat is that? Looks like it has some stomp grip-ish areas; I recently switched to SM and I can't figure out how to keep my weight from my arms in hard braking.
Aesthetically, the hanging off style looks more refined and elegant. The foot out style looks like it says, “whoa, I’m going in way too hot, better put my foot out.” The hanging off style says, “no problem, I got it handled.”
Great explanation! Thanks!
Nice video and great explanations ! :) I was wandering why are you shifting that quick ? The maximum torque and hp are at high rpm on these bikes
Dont be fooled by the sound.. its a 1 cyl. Bike... Hes probably around 7k... I know my wr peaks at 8k but on a kart track you dont need all the power... Its more about flow...
I also noticed the short shifting
Have you tried putting weight on the inside foot peg? It seems that this would provide even better physics than leaning out because it is lowering your center of gravity. Sometimes when I come in too hot in a corner, I find that putting my weight on the inside peg saves me.
Maybe you just push the bike in the corner (holding the lean angle) with the inside peg stepping. That is why it feels saving, otherwise your brain would have risen the bike to abort.
So theoretically it would be the fastest to break into a corner with your leg out then switch to a hang-off. But i guess thats a little hard to pull off.
2ane ,Brake.
I love the vids keep it up , first btw
how dare you !!! (be first) ;-D
interesting results. thank you
hanging out is done incorrect way, and it's a bit incorrect bike for hanging out, i know one girl from moto3 and she rides small supermoto bike on cart track, as bike is small it's uncomfortable to foot out without wasting time, so hanging out is faster, but on high bike leg out will be faster and more stable because of riding position. Actually even with leg out you do hanging out, all weight goes to outer foot rest, and body angle should be more than bike lean angle, as much as possible. On sport bike you just can hang out more than on supermoto because tank helps to hold on bike. On enduro track hanging out will also help to ride faster but you might lose traction and while hanging out it's hard to save bike from falling.
How would you say seat height affects foot out? I'm starting to think lower seat height bikes have a harder time doing foot out, because there is less space. Is this correct?
Hey Mike, is your home track Thunderhill? Love that facility!
What if keeping the foot on the peg and not hanging off makes me most comfortable? Other than extreme lean angle resulting in the foot possibly hitting the asphalt, is there any reason to put the foot out? I layed my supermoto over today to see how far it has to got to drag a peg and I would say the precise lean angle is "far as fuck". Now the foot often hangs below the peg, but why not simply put your toes on the peg instead of hanging your entire leg out?
The correct answer is a little of both.
What day were you at the track? It doesn’t look busy at all.
Watching S1gp the best riders in the world most of them are foot out. But it depends what you are riding. You’re gonna do knee out if you are dirt? Idk just riding preference
Thank you👍
Cool vidéo thanks from france
I don’t understand the leg : is the purpose to use it to balance or slide the bike side ways …? I’m kinda worried to loose that leg 😊
So either its your ass or your brake line going up and down 😂 good video tho
Excellent contents. Thanks bro
How far forward do you ride when doing the foot out?
blue and yellow curbs, very cold day? are you back home? :-P
Why do you short shift it? Does it lose power higher up?
Arent handguards supposed to be angled down like your levers? They are pretty useless like this
What kind of bikes are these?
Not sure why but knee down seems to be an upcoming trend, all the old supermoto hero's used foot out. I personally think hanging off looks foolish on a supermoto. What's next. knee out on a motocross track ?
Good video.pretty fly..lol
You are way quicker if you not short shift I have a husqvarna fs 450 aswel
Is it possible to get good cornering with slim 120 section tyre on the rear?
How much hp what bike?
Dudes through seems like his other job is a hitman couldn't see his barcode
What about drive fatigue?
That's an other parameter.
But the last run was the fastest?!
@@HochstartHarry
Indeed it was.
Just the concentration (fatigue) of having repeat the same technique every corner in stead of taking it like it feels the best (gut feeling) makes it slower. Pilot experience is the most powerful computer to analyze cornering.
You do a fantastic job trying to explain it.👍
@@daviddewilde8041 you have a point.. but i guess in a natural habitat you do whatfeels right anyways.. he was just showing that foot out has its pros, but so does knee down... It really depends on the Turn and you cant say that either one is better, it just depends..
Foot out means you will eventually be needing a meatal feamer
6:55 nice
🔥🔥🔥👌
seems like your shifting way early....
STOP SHORT SHIFTING!!!
wrong conclusion - all depends on pace, try leg out on a corner riding at MotoGP pace LOL
Why do you seem to always short shift that gear?(2nd gear I think) Baaaah, bah, baaaah.
but why do tehy do that
foot out > hanging off
put a shifter
Your shifting way to early but okay
So much short shifting.
Percentages lol
Your shifting sucks!