Update: A few people have pointed it out. Riders keep the bike lent over on a straight to maximize the tire's grip and reduce wheelie...giving them better acceleration. I left that bit out. My bad. Got a bit carried away
A good example of short shifting in Silverstone. MotoGP riders all skip 2 to 3 gears coming from Luffield through Woodcote. Reducing the need to shift mid corner and wheel spin from lower gears high RPM
Excellent video! I only just asked a week ago, the question "why do riders lean so much on a straight when it adds distance to the lap?" only to be met with a "not sure, mate". Thanks for clearing this up! Liked and subscribed!
That's what Stoner said in the gypsy podcast. But it stands,because you get bigger contact patch and you warm the tire before pushing it's edge grip limits.
if the rpms are higher on the side of the tire because the circumference is reduced, then leaning on a straight doesn't make sense where youre trying to top out each gear...you'd want to be on the centre of the tire at top speed or else youre just wasting revs. They teach you in race schools also that you have maximum grip on when the bike is fully upright, which maximizes braking potential, you have diminishing returns of grip the more lean angle you put in. So i don't think this video fully gets it right...there might be a slight lean angle during braking phases but i think it has to do more with corner entry and the way a bike enters a corner more than anything.
4:47 they don't drop their body to the inside of the corner, bike acceleration straightens the bike up and they hold their body down for as long as they can so they can accelerate harder
Was just watching MotoGP in COTA and started noticing after the big turn 1 into sweeping turn 2 that everyone, Moto3 - MotoGP, was short shifting here. Cool to hear the answer. Thanks!
Disclaimer: do not take this video seriously. He missed half of the information and the half he actually tells is wrong. First of all i suggest to anyone out there to NOT use motogp riders as an example. Never ever. None of you would realize how different they are and they have nothing to do with any other type of bike in the planet. Moving on, you clearly do not have any idea of how a bike works, the science and reason behind it. That's fine, but then why would you do a video about it? Do not confuse people man. I'm only half of the video deep and so many things wrong... i'm not even gonna bother trying to explain things. Good luck.
Why didn’t I know this…. I’ve got V shaped racing tires on my ninja and while I’m a noob I’ve been playing with lean angle and everything you said is making things click. Thanks good vid.
You don’t understand it. The secret is in the detail: Just a little bit leaning is the goal to have the biggest contact patch. That’s not the same as trying to get your bike MORE upright from deepest lean angle in mid corner, to also get a bigger contact patch for acceleration. Are you doing trackdays yourself?
@@OM-cz8pui knew what he was getting at with the contact patch. but the more upright a bike is, the more braking you can get done to slow before getting to the slowest point of the corner-it helps you slow in a shorter time and distance. the more the bike is leaned over the less you can brake, as well as accelerate. you have to trade of between lean angle, braking, and acceleration. so they actually try to keep the bike upright as much as possible to maximize their braking or acceleration. but the only way to stay on track from some corners to the next corner is to stay leaned over because if they stood it completely up they would run off. they are trying to stay as upright as they can still
My man. I can't explain how many errors you've made in your analysis. Please don't try to speak as an expert when there are already many great many and more qualified experts talking about this topic and you CLEARLY are not one of them. No MotoGP or 1000cc superbike is gaining any advantage by staying leaned over rather than getting it upright and back on the gas as quickly as possible. The reasoning you gave are a way racers get around the shortcomings of having to lean over a bike including the way the tires are constructed. Please, if you are reading this go find a different resource for motorcycle racing and performance handling information. Yamaha Champ Racing School is fantastic. So is "Gas on Bike Up" (Penguin Racing School). Motovudu is great (retired BSB racer). Life at Lean has decent stuff too.
I was thinking the same thing. Don’t the MotoGP guys use a v corner style so they can stand it up and pin it from the exit? No one cracks the throttle fully open when lent over, even with TC that’s a recipe for a massive high side.
@@AxelTheEpic I didn't say it doesn't help reduce a wheelie on exit. But should that be your focus? Or should accelerating as much as possible be the focus? What's the limiting factor on exit? The tire grip or the bike wheelieing? How fast is the corner? What gear is the bike in? It may be that sometimes its useful to carry a slight amount of lean on exit depending on what's coming next but to advertise this as an axiom of racing that "racers should keep the bike leaned over as much as possible" is so wrong and misleading. If it were true that you could accelerate harder at all times with the bike carrying some lean we should see racers pushing the bike down on exit to get that "bigger contact patch" and better drive but we do not. The opposite is true; We see racers push the bike UP. The idea that the GOAL is to "keep the bike leaned over as much as possible" isn't just wrong its AGGRESSIVELY wrong. Its cherry picked data at best. Its seeing the forest for the tree. And its not backed up by telemetry nor does he make a convincing argument.
I couldn't watch to the 3rd minute. The understanding of what's going on is so wrong that I came straight to the comments. And I'm truly sorry for the author of the video... seems like he put a lot of effort into it, but got it totally wrong nonetheless.
The straight bit is also largely because the riders are focused on keeping the fat part of the tire on the ground on exit, yet can simply save energy by not immediately pushing the bike fully upright after riding out to the curb, then off it. You'll notice on long straights when the previous and next corner are different directions, the bikes are damn near bolt upright from one corner of the track to the other.
On corner entry, you don't mention trail braking. Riders trail brake to settle the front suspension and to extend the braking zone into the corner. Any advantage in braking from leaning the bike a few degrees to get more contact patch is reduced by the traction needed for turning. So it won't really improve braking very much. On exit, riders keep the bike leaned over to reduce wheelies.
And all these years I had assumed that riders weave on a straight to try to break the draft for the rider behind them. I feel really dumb. BUT enlightened!!
aha! (About the straights :) I finally understand why they did that! I thought it was to cover their line from drafting of the guy behind them, but sometimes they didn't have anyone behind and still did it! voila!
Car drivers behind you on the public road thinks you have lost control... But what they dont know is that your doing it for safety reasons with a purpose.
They are weaving across the track to make it harder to get beside them and make a pass. Leaning over in a straight to reduce the gearing ratio? They would just wait to shift if that’s the case. It is something they need to understand when entering and exiting corners but not in straights.
I don't understand why most riders are taking a foot off the peg during braking,sometimes it's the foot that would be pressing the rear brake. A few guys did it when I last watched racing 2 decades ago but but now it seems most do it
In some cases like in smaller capacity bikes it’s to stop people slip streaming past on the correct side for the next corner entry. I always understood on larger bikes it was to stop wheelie, as if it’s still turning it helps put some load on the suspension and keep the front wheel down.
I'm sorry bro, this video is very well put together and you speak really well. However, the entire premise of the video is wrong. You do NOT want to maximize the time on the side of the tyre. Especially on a high horsepower bike like a superbike, the goal is to spend the maximum amount of time in the lap on the throttle. The more lean angle you have, the less throttle you can use without highsiding. The only reason you see guys carry a slight lean out of a corner is because it is an effective way to keep the front wheel from lifting. When entering the turn, you want to leave your braking as late as possible in order to stay at a higher speed for as long as possible, which means you need to carry a lot of your braking right the way through corner entry. Front tyre grip is never as issue when braking upright, and the tyre actually compresses a lot under load, providing plenty of contact patch.
Wow....tell me you have never raced a motorcycle on a track without telling me you've never raced a motorcycle on a track. This video may contain the largest amount of misinformation about what riders are actually doing and why the are doing it than any other video on the Internet.
6:50: sorry but that is pure BS. If you were watching WSBK and EWC races on the French Eurosport, you would know! During those races, the journalists always invite former pro racers, current team managers etc. And there is a lot of insights to learn from them. During a WSBK race last year, a pro racer explained why they were not going on a straight line and the answer was as simple as: because they are simply finishing the turn and by doing so they get close or past the middle of the track.
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Update: A few people have pointed it out. Riders keep the bike lent over on a straight to maximize the tire's grip and reduce wheelie...giving them better acceleration. I left that bit out. My bad. Got a bit carried away
A good example of short shifting in Silverstone. MotoGP riders all skip 2 to 3 gears coming from Luffield through Woodcote. Reducing the need to shift mid corner and wheel spin from lower gears high RPM
Perfect example
Wrong
Great video. Good to see a channel like this we severely lack content like this in the motorcycle world.
Excellent video! I only just asked a week ago, the question "why do riders lean so much on a straight when it adds distance to the lap?" only to be met with a "not sure, mate". Thanks for clearing this up! Liked and subscribed!
Thanks Nathan, I missed out a few things here admittedly but it's all part of it :)
There's more to it. Swerving is also a way to prepare the bike for the counter steer where you need to move the contact patch away from the cog
That's what Stoner said in the gypsy podcast. But it stands,because you get bigger contact patch and you warm the tire before pushing it's edge grip limits.
At last, someone said something coherent
i love how you said leaning is gradual through the turn. overlooked for sure. i loved this video
if the rpms are higher on the side of the tire because the circumference is reduced, then leaning on a straight doesn't make sense where youre trying to top out each gear...you'd want to be on the centre of the tire at top speed or else youre just wasting revs. They teach you in race schools also that you have maximum grip on when the bike is fully upright, which maximizes braking potential, you have diminishing returns of grip the more lean angle you put in. So i don't think this video fully gets it right...there might be a slight lean angle during braking phases but i think it has to do more with corner entry and the way a bike enters a corner more than anything.
The vid does say that the lean angle is small. 2 To 4 degrees.
Leave it to the experts, they know what they are doing!
Super video mate! Everything was well explained and watching videos like these get my hyped for the upcoming 2024 MotoGP season!
Thanks mate! Glad you liked the video!
Very interesting. The mechanics behind riding are fascinating
Certainly are!
He's wrong
4:47 they don't drop their body to the inside of the corner, bike acceleration straightens the bike up and they hold their body down for as long as they can so they can accelerate harder
Awesome video, the physics behind the rpm increase amazed me.
Same here!
"unpleasant meet and greet with the tarmac" I should use that term more in my everyday life.
It's my new go to phrase hah!
Finally my question was answered, thank you so much, great video, keep up the good job...
That meet and great with the tarmac was hilarious😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Was just watching MotoGP in COTA and started noticing after the big turn 1 into sweeping turn 2 that everyone, Moto3 - MotoGP, was short shifting here. Cool to hear the answer. Thanks!
Learn something new everyday. Incredible video mate. 👍🏻
Thanks Aidan!
Disclaimer: do not take this video seriously. He missed half of the information and the half he actually tells is wrong. First of all i suggest to anyone out there to NOT use motogp riders as an example. Never ever. None of you would realize how different they are and they have nothing to do with any other type of bike in the planet. Moving on, you clearly do not have any idea of how a bike works, the science and reason behind it. That's fine, but then why would you do a video about it? Do not confuse people man. I'm only half of the video deep and so many things wrong... i'm not even gonna bother trying to explain things. Good luck.
Why didn’t I know this…. I’ve got V shaped racing tires on my ninja and while I’m a noob I’ve been playing with lean angle and everything you said is making things click. Thanks good vid.
they try to keep the bike upright as much as possible. 100 points of grip. as well as 100mm of travel.....
Yep, just the opposite of what the expert is saying.
You don’t understand it. The secret is in the detail:
Just a little bit leaning is the goal to have the biggest contact patch.
That’s not the same as trying to get your bike MORE upright from deepest lean angle in mid corner, to also get a bigger contact patch for acceleration.
Are you doing trackdays yourself?
@@OM-cz8pui knew what he was getting at with the contact patch. but the more upright a bike is, the more braking you can get done to slow before getting to the slowest point of the corner-it helps you slow in a shorter time and distance. the more the bike is leaned over the less you can brake, as well as accelerate. you have to trade of between lean angle, braking, and acceleration. so they actually try to keep the bike upright as much as possible to maximize their braking or acceleration. but the only way to stay on track from some corners to the next corner is to stay leaned over because if they stood it completely up they would run off. they are trying to stay as upright as they can still
You are misinformed because you don't factor in physics in your regurgitation
@@OM-cz8puI can guarantee he's never done hard braking practice
My man. I can't explain how many errors you've made in your analysis. Please don't try to speak as an expert when there are already many great many and more qualified experts talking about this topic and you CLEARLY are not one of them. No MotoGP or 1000cc superbike is gaining any advantage by staying leaned over rather than getting it upright and back on the gas as quickly as possible. The reasoning you gave are a way racers get around the shortcomings of having to lean over a bike including the way the tires are constructed. Please, if you are reading this go find a different resource for motorcycle racing and performance handling information. Yamaha Champ Racing School is fantastic. So is "Gas on Bike Up" (Penguin Racing School). Motovudu is great (retired BSB racer). Life at Lean has decent stuff too.
I was thinking the same thing. Don’t the MotoGP guys use a v corner style so they can stand it up and pin it from the exit? No one cracks the throttle fully open when lent over, even with TC that’s a recipe for a massive high side.
Bike racer here... He's pretty much spot on mate, sorry not sorry.
Sorry mate but you’re wrong, the guy in the video explained the concept perfectly. Leaning does reduce wheelies.
@@AxelTheEpic I didn't say it doesn't help reduce a wheelie on exit. But should that be your focus? Or should accelerating as much as possible be the focus? What's the limiting factor on exit? The tire grip or the bike wheelieing? How fast is the corner? What gear is the bike in? It may be that sometimes its useful to carry a slight amount of lean on exit depending on what's coming next but to advertise this as an axiom of racing that "racers should keep the bike leaned over as much as possible" is so wrong and misleading. If it were true that you could accelerate harder at all times with the bike carrying some lean we should see racers pushing the bike down on exit to get that "bigger contact patch" and better drive but we do not. The opposite is true; We see racers push the bike UP. The idea that the GOAL is to "keep the bike leaned over as much as possible" isn't just wrong its AGGRESSIVELY wrong. Its cherry picked data at best. Its seeing the forest for the tree. And its not backed up by telemetry nor does he make a convincing argument.
I couldn't watch to the 3rd minute. The understanding of what's going on is so wrong that I came straight to the comments. And I'm truly sorry for the author of the video... seems like he put a lot of effort into it, but got it totally wrong nonetheless.
What video do you want to see me do in the future? Let me know down below!!! ⬇️⬇️⬇️
None
The straight bit is also largely because the riders are focused on keeping the fat part of the tire on the ground on exit, yet can simply save energy by not immediately pushing the bike fully upright after riding out to the curb, then off it. You'll notice on long straights when the previous and next corner are different directions, the bikes are damn near bolt upright from one corner of the track to the other.
Thanks for the video, Ill be safer and faster at my next track day!
A-Grade content man!
Appreciate it thanks Hurra!
That was very detailed video but very well done. Thanks
Absolutely fascinating. All new to me. Thanks.
On corner entry, you don't mention trail braking. Riders trail brake to settle the front suspension and to extend the braking zone into the corner. Any advantage in braking from leaning the bike a few degrees to get more contact patch is reduced by the traction needed for turning. So it won't really improve braking very much. On exit, riders keep the bike leaned over to reduce wheelies.
And all these years I had assumed that riders weave on a straight to try to break the draft for the rider behind them. I feel really dumb. BUT enlightened!!
We're teaching this ever since
aha! (About the straights :) I finally understand why they did that! I thought it was to cover their line from drafting of the guy behind them, but sometimes they didn't have anyone behind and still did it! voila!
Great video
Really informative, thanks for that, and, thanks for refering to them as motorbikes and not using the americanism 'motorcycles' ;)
I was wondering why they deliberately make the straight longer and now I know.
You're talking a lot of bulls#^t
Car drivers behind you on the public road thinks you have lost control... But what they dont know is that your doing it for safety reasons with a purpose.
6:06 Bit of a correction, WSBK has rider aids
They are weaving across the track to make it harder to get beside them and make a pass. Leaning over in a straight to reduce the gearing ratio? They would just wait to shift if that’s the case. It is something they need to understand when entering and exiting corners but not in straights.
OH what happened to standing it up straight to get the power down .. it depends on what your riding s'pose
I don't understand why most riders are taking a foot off the peg during braking,sometimes it's the foot that would be pressing the rear brake. A few guys did it when I last watched racing 2 decades ago but but now it seems most do it
didnt know that
Very interesting
Nothng worse than running out of revs at full lean. Especially with street shift pattern.
In some cases like in smaller capacity bikes it’s to stop people slip streaming past on the correct side for the next corner entry. I always understood on larger bikes it was to stop wheelie, as if it’s still turning it helps put some load on the suspension and keep the front wheel down.
lets ask Marc Marquez why he did that
Love seeing your handsome face Daniel❤
Awh your too king Aidan, hope your doing good mate!
I'm sorry bro, this video is very well put together and you speak really well. However, the entire premise of the video is wrong. You do NOT want to maximize the time on the side of the tyre. Especially on a high horsepower bike like a superbike, the goal is to spend the maximum amount of time in the lap on the throttle. The more lean angle you have, the less throttle you can use without highsiding. The only reason you see guys carry a slight lean out of a corner is because it is an effective way to keep the front wheel from lifting. When entering the turn, you want to leave your braking as late as possible in order to stay at a higher speed for as long as possible, which means you need to carry a lot of your braking right the way through corner entry. Front tyre grip is never as issue when braking upright, and the tyre actually compresses a lot under load, providing plenty of contact patch.
No disrespect but where did you get the idea from that the aim is to spend as much time as possible lent over?
Wow....tell me you have never raced a motorcycle on a track without telling me you've never raced a motorcycle on a track. This video may contain the largest amount of misinformation about what riders are actually doing and why the are doing it than any other video on the Internet.
6:50: sorry but that is pure BS.
If you were watching WSBK and EWC races on the French Eurosport, you would know!
During those races, the journalists always invite former pro racers, current team managers etc. And there is a lot of insights to learn from them.
During a WSBK race last year, a pro racer explained why they were not going on a straight line and the answer was as simple as: because they are simply finishing the turn and by doing so they get close or past the middle of the track.
Sorry....but you talk BS.