Why Dragons Can't Fly Over The Wall Explained (Game of Thrones ASOIAF Theory)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
  • In this episode of our series discussing all the magic in A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones we discuss dragons and the wall. Given the building blocks we have put down in previous episodes I think we have all we need to figure out why exactly dragons can't go over the wall. Once the clues George RR Martin has laid out are put together we get a very good reason explaining why Silverwing refused to fly over the wall when the good queen Alysanne.
    It would appear I am a real TH-camr now and me and my pets need to eat... If you would like to help support me and say thank you for the videos you can do that here.
    / michaeltalksaboutstuff
    For now view the Patreon as a tip jar to say thank you for the videos if you have enjoyed them and to support me and let me know they are appreciated. Little bits of money would be very helpful for the time spent and could help spoil myself or my pets which would be very nice of you all.

ความคิดเห็น • 309

  • @mds2519
    @mds2519 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +849

    Daenerys was able to fly over the wall in season 7 because “she kinda forgot” about the wall’s magic

    • @stephenjones4013
      @stephenjones4013 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +65

      Dan and Dave never read the books

    • @Gigipretty64
      @Gigipretty64 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Dan and Dave are fecking idiots who ruined an iconic show.

    • @KushGee
      @KushGee 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

      @@stephenjones4013 that episode came out a year before the tidbit about not being able to go over the walls so let's not shit on them for something they couldn't have possibly known.

    • @KushGee
      @KushGee 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      that episode came out a year before this info in fire and blood was released.

    • @ongobongo8333
      @ongobongo8333 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +126

      ​@@KushGeeI will shit on them for anything and everything forever

  • @ganykaliya7811
    @ganykaliya7811 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +147

    You mentioned eagles as an allegory for dragons is interesting because the Winged Knight supposedly rode a giant falcon and commanded eagles. Perhaps it wasn't a falcon but a dragon since there are legends of Westerosi dragons before the Valyrians. Also, the Arryns who descend from the Winged Knight are also obsessed with blood purity, like the Targaryens, and are also inbred. Interestingly Rhaenyra, the dragon hatcher of her generation was 1/4 Arryn. The fact that the Targaryens at the height of their power would consent to marry the Arryns is telling. The Arryns don't have much fear of heights. Robert Arryn is a bad example because it's very likely he's actually Littlefinger's son. The last Arryn King Ronnel Arryn was quite at ease riding on dragon back with Visenya Targaryen. The Arryns are also mostly blonde haired.

    • @AzayBae
      @AzayBae 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Interesting. I haven't read fire and blood but know there was a servant who could tide a dragon with no Targaryen blood. Maybe she was a descendant from the pre-Valyrian riders?

    • @pankratos5017
      @pankratos5017 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      Fair point, but Aemma Arryn was half-Targaryen from her mother's side (Daella Targaryen), making her Viserys's first cousin. Your theory still sounds reasonable, though.

    • @ganykaliya7811
      @ganykaliya7811 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@pankratos5017 My point was not about Viserys marriage to Aemma but why would the Targaryens allow Daella Targaryen to marry Rodrik Arryn, if the Arryns didn't have dragon genes.

    • @pankratos5017
      @pankratos5017 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@ganykaliya7811 The Targaryen women were more easily married off to powerful houses, as their children (usually) wouldn't stand to inherit the crown. Jaehaerys and Alysanne had 9 children, of which the oldest and male heir even married a Baratheon (though I don't remember the reason behind this). Daella was the youngest, and the Arryns were a powerful house and important allies to maintain control over the Vale. Also of note, the crown passed on to children of two Targaryens: Baelon and Alyssa, keeping the ruling bloodline pure.

    • @ganykaliya7811
      @ganykaliya7811 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      @@pankratos5017 First off the Baratheons are a cadet branch of House Targaryen. Orys Baratheon was Aegon the Conqueror's bastard half-brother. Also, the mother of Jocelyn Baratheon the wife of Aemon Targaryen was Alyssa Velaryon the mother of Jahaerys and Alysanne. Targaryen women, if you look at the family tree were rarely married off to powerful houses. In fact Elaena Targaryen daughter of Aegon III was married off to minor houses. Targaryens married mostly based on eugenic principles rather than on power politics. The one king who tried this was Aegon V and he failed. Also, when the Targaryens married the Martells, the Martells at this point had Valyrian blood through their ancestor Drozhenko Rogarre, a Lyseni.

  • @austinfield3226
    @austinfield3226 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +40

    Found your channel at about 4am today, and have listened to all your game of thrones videos sense. To my excitement, you immediately drop another. Keep up the good work; I can’t wait to see this channel blow up.

  • @davethemagicweasel1
    @davethemagicweasel1 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    One thing not mentioned here that i think backs up the theory is Dany's change of character after the dragons are born. Varamyr tells us it works both ways and Orell whispers to him, so the same should be true of Drogo's soul blending with Dany's through her bond with Drogon. And she does become more confident, but also more belligerent, after the Dragons are born, crucifying people, sacking cities, becomes much more interested in conquest, etc

  • @stenquists1
    @stenquists1 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Great theory, especially considering Euron's horn that should bind a dragon and kills the blower. I imagine it would replace the soul of the person in the dragon with one that you would hope is loyal to you. The parallels of bodies catching on fire internally when a soul has nowhere to go is striking.

    • @Ash.Crow.Goddess
      @Ash.Crow.Goddess 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That's probably why he wants Victarion to blow the horn.

  •  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +30

    14:10 it’s also interesting that the eagle bursts into FLAMES when trying to fly over the ICE wall

    • @Tarimoth
      @Tarimoth 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah, fire is like... the opposite of ice, when you think about it. Far out man.

    • @persephone342
      @persephone342 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I bet the elements- Water (blue), Fire (red), Earth (Green) and Wind (white) add the blue and red Weirwood/shadetrees together you get purple for telepathic.

    •  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@persephone342 good catch! 😍

    • @persephone342
      @persephone342 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks!

  • @stephan4977
    @stephan4977 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Melissandre did remark that her magic felt much more powerful at the wall.

  • @0bskureference
    @0bskureference 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    Just a random thought: the only tangible beings we see in the story that have long fiery talons are dragons and firewyrms. So just another connection between Rhllor and dragons

  • @RoshDroz
    @RoshDroz 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Dude, I continually think "nah, you're just reading way too deep into this" but then you proceed to present such extremely convincing evidence that you sway me to your side. That's how almost all your videos are. The evidence is so well-thought out and it all seems to line up. You have the best collection of unique yet convincing theories of anyone I've watched

  • @striker8961
    @striker8961 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    This is actually a much more interesting idea on how the wall functions rather than just being a barrier. Essentially a magic disabling barrier. An off switch. Not blocking magic from coming through but nullifying it.
    Explains why the others refuse to go through. It would turn them and their wights off. And depending on how their souls work, cause them to burst into flames 😂

  • @Buford_T_Justice1
    @Buford_T_Justice1 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    I binge watched the 7 hells out of your videos and you have become my FAVORITE ASOIAF theory channel.
    Keep them coming dude!!!

  • @jarredwilkinson4666
    @jarredwilkinson4666 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    D&D stated they wanted to limit Magic so makes perfect sense they would dismiss the idea that Wall magic is a thing. GRMM I bet told them and they just tossed it aside.

  • @liberTvalance
    @liberTvalance 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    My theory is that Dan and Dave only read the first 2 books and used google and reddit to get the rest of their GOT knowledge. This explains why they seemingly didn't understand some basic parts of the world and lore but somehow guessed the parentage of Jon. It also explains why they didn't realize how the magic increased or what it was outside of Mel.

    • @Captain_Insano_nomercy
      @Captain_Insano_nomercy 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Especially because the R+L=J theory was not created by people who had read ADWD...it was around after the first book if I'm not mistaken. So based off very little evidence in actuality. It's easily something they could read about without putting any thought into it themselves

    • @wafflingmean4477
      @wafflingmean4477 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Honestly I'd be genuinely surprised if that wasn't what they did. If I were trying to replace GRRM's work with my crappy fan fiction, I'd be a lot better at gaslighting fans if I knew what the hell they were talking about be changing. Dan and Dave, a lot of the time it doesn't feel like overt lying. They just sound like they genuinely have no idea what the hell they're supposed to be talking about and so try to improvise.
      They literally didn't even do the bare minimum requirement to get the job and tricked GRRM because GRRM was an old man who barely understood the internet (the guy still uses a goddamn typewriter ffs).

  • @Glantonite
    @Glantonite 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Wonder if targ’s having so many stillborns could be sacrifices to be dragon souls. We’ve seen and been shown so many child deaths to targs specifically, don’t know any other house having such bad luck with having kids. Collecting dead babies to feed to the comet when it comes around.

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I am thinking I will cover this soon but I agree it is either something with all their still births/dragonlike dead kids or some other sacrifices done by the pyromancers to prisoners in the red keep or something like that.
      I have never tried to line up the dragon hatchings on any level to the birth issues but it seems possible GRRM would do something like that and line it up timing wise in the history books.

    • @Glantonite
      @Glantonite 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@michaeltalksaboutstuff probably a technique lost after the doom, any westerosi targ doesn’t seem to understand why they can’t have lots of children. Maybe Aegon knew considering he was content with what he had.

    • @FishDinners
      @FishDinners 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Makes sense because if dragons need sacrifices and drogon had drogon while viseryon had mirri, then which one did rhaegal have? Danny's son Rhaego, who was stillborn

    • @emmyland3162
      @emmyland3162 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@michaeltalksaboutstuffso that would be the same as Craster sacrificing his sons to the WW?

    • @orunir
      @orunir 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@michaeltalksaboutstuff I noticed Aegon's official age means he begat his sons quite late. He was 34 when Aenys was born, and 39 when Maegor was born. This means Visenya was 41 when she birthed Maegor. These are the ages of grandparents, not first-time parents, in the setting. Visenya is a tough woman, but her 1 and only pregnancy was a success, and her son survived adulthood? There's clearly missing information. It does not make sense Aegon would wait out his entire 20's, already married, and not produce an heir before he sought conquest of Westeros. I could believe all those years were full of stillbirths. But Visenya and Rhaenys successfully carrying their pregnancies at such a late age? Must be magic at work.

  • @solutanbrun
    @solutanbrun 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Fascinating! What if wights are dual consciousnesses as well. It could be as in the show where each wight belong to an Other, or they could be a hivemind of some sort.

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I think the wights seem closer to wargs bond but the whole others thing seems to be a hive mind so it will be interesting to see the details of that mix all play out

    • @jacobsquare4812
      @jacobsquare4812 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      This is sort of what I was thinking. They are undead being possessed by some sort of consciousness, so it makes sense that something that breaks that would be a barrier to them, like the Wall or Bloodraven's cave

  • @lawv804
    @lawv804 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Silverwing also acted very strage near the wall while Queen Allysanne visited the Nights Watch.
    Silverwing's behavior made her a beleiver of the importance of the wall enough to convince her to fund castles and to grant the New Gift to the Nights Watch.

  • @chemputer
    @chemputer 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Counterpoint: Too many dragon eggs hatched without any dead people around. Unless Rhanerya and Rhaenys were ritually sacrificing a person next to their babies cribs, yeah, just no.

  • @BeteBlanc
    @BeteBlanc 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    There are several aspects to the Wall that appear to contradict so I'm not going to claim to have solved this riddle.
    Notable is the wights being dragged through. I see a lot of "not activated", but their eyes are blue on the north side so that doesn't make sense to me. The Wall seems to act as what Bran called a hot kettle when Summer was injured. What seems to happen is a "shadow" or a "spirit" can't pass it unless it's in a living thing. It's forced to retreat to its living form. The barrier is like a hot kettle.
    For the bird, Orell doesn't have a form to retreat to. What remains of him has nowhere to go so it was forced into the hot kettle. For the wights, if it's their own spirit, they reteat into their own bones like Hodor hiding from Bran.
    If a dragon has one or more spirits with no where to retreat they'd probably burn up like the eagle. I don't think it's the number of heads, I think it's the fact that Orell's and the spirits in the dragons can't escape because they have no bones to return to. They can't leave so they're forced to go into the kettle and burn up.

  • @magister343
    @magister343 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I personally prefer to think that the Wall is actually a sleeping Ice Dragon, or more likely multiple ice dragons but still not nearly as many as would be needed to take up that much space if they were puny little fire dragons like the Targaryens rode. Ice Dragons may be mythical, but one thing the stories agree about is that they are way bigger than fire dragons.

  • @sleepyj8848
    @sleepyj8848 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Love your theories man. Best Wall theory on the net. Keep them coming!

  • @daneocallaghan230
    @daneocallaghan230 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Given the hive mind like characteristics of the Others, is it possible that this is the reason that they can’t/ won’t cross the wall? Yes they do take a wight Wight to castle black but perhaps there’s an explanation somewhere as to why it didn’t burn. I just love the idea that the physical scale of the wall isn’t what keeps them put but rather it’s magical properties

    • @emrek99205
      @emrek99205 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes there is a problem here. The wight was taken in BY the Night's Watch. Any connection it had would have been broken which is why the others don't overrun the forts. But later it does connect and attacks. That should not be possible. An eagle that flies over the wall cannot be connected until it flies back. Same should be true for the wight.

  • @girlnettles
    @girlnettles 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Who are you?
    And why are you so smart?

    • @KarlKarsnark
      @KarlKarsnark 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Howdy stranger! Yes, the Michael chap seems to be on to something. There's an LML stream later today at 6pm EST. Come on by. Cheers! (Go Noles! they're looking pretty good this year ;) )

  • @zachlevacque4853
    @zachlevacque4853 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Orell's eagle is frantically trying to fly higher and higher as it burst into flames. I think it instinctually knew that the way to safety was up. Same as Aegon somehow knew to fly very high to attack Harrenhall.

  • @nagamata
    @nagamata 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    A simple flaw in the Wall like just being able to go around it is not actually that stupidly simple. It makes sense to me that even a thing such as the Wall is imperfect; to me, it shows that flaws are baked into objects and actions that are rooted in flawed intentions. Despite the best efforts of those who would create such an absolute separation, opposition will always find a way through.

  • @prophet4722
    @prophet4722 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    1. Fire breather = fire wyrm
    2. Winged leader = wyvern
    3. Dragon rider
    These may be the 3 heads according to the song because I wonder why the hell would a sacrifice be head.

    • @JohnDoe-bh2lp
      @JohnDoe-bh2lp 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Asshai had records of shadow dragons before wyverns were discovered in Sothoryos. The EOTGD probably learned how to tame dragons and passed it onto the Valyrians who may be refugees or slaves of the Dawn.

  •  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    There MUST BE a reason why wargs can’t get through the wall when warging! This seems to me, that the wall is there to keep the three eyed raven out of the realms of men.

    • @ruudboltz6677
      @ruudboltz6677 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I rather think it's to keep the Great Other (or the leader of the Others who may be arguably the most powerful warg) at bay from people south of the wall.

    •  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ruudboltz6677 yes, I think the Great Other IS the three eyed crow (at least the entity that is living in bloodraven’s body), the wall is there to keep them in the north. I know it’s a bit confusing, but I have some evidence that this might be the case (for example Melissandre seeing him in the flames with bran the wolfboy)

  • @RhmnLego
    @RhmnLego 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Seems that, in general, no magic stuff can go through. Coldhands, dragons, whitewalkers etc

  • @SylvianLovegrove-Sears
    @SylvianLovegrove-Sears 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    There's a difference between "refuses to" and "can't" fly over the wall.

  • @ChryI
    @ChryI 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Season 7 did something right? I can't believe it. That's insane.

  • @thisguy8106
    @thisguy8106 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I don't think exploding someone with fire would be a "one off" type of spell for Melisandre.😅 Theres no way she did it.
    Seems to me that Storms End has the same type of spell on it that would prevent warging anything, including a shadow baby.

  • @paulcashion8049
    @paulcashion8049 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    So in your theory were the nights watch origanally protectors of the crusified others in the wall as part of the pact? Were they essentially wardens?

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      So I am a bit up in the air and there is some speculation here, but I think if the wall is a big line of weirwoods that need blood the reason they put an order there to guard it and fight against anyone on the other side might just be because it means constant blood going into the wall. They are basically soldiers being fed to the meat grinder to keep the old ways running.
      If the trees need blood what better way than to ensure a bunch of people swear into an order where they can't leave and will die at the wall one way or another.
      Which could be read as a bit of a critique on war and the way soldiers are used as basically sacrifices by the ones running the show. GRRM is very anti war so the soldiers thinking they are going to fight some important world saving battle when really they are shoved up there and dying for the sake of sustaining the old people strapped to trees kinda tracks for me with a statement GRRM might make.
      It sorta has the vibes of the song masters of war by Bob Dylan. There are lines about how the masters of war hide behind walls, or "You hide in your mansion, While the young peoples' blood, Flows out of their bodies, And is buried in the mud". The whole song is very good and I imagine GRRM was a fan of it or at least its message.
      Basically they are pawns in someone else's big sacrifice system propped up by wars.

  • @thediabeterskeeter2340
    @thediabeterskeeter2340 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    MY MAAAN!!! Thaaaaank you so MF much. You just tied something together for me.
    When I first read what happened to Euron’s horn blower at the KingsMoot in AFFC, I immediately associated it with Orell’s eagle burning in ASOS. In fact, I just found a text i sent to my brother that I sent two years ago after reading that chapter:
    “the two scenes have too man similarities to ignore…I’m not saying that it indicates anything to the central storyline, but it more so speaks on the mechanism of magic in the world and may hint at the source. Idk I think George is leaving little crumbs and think this might be something big. I just can’t articulate what it is”
    Fuck. Yesssss. Thank you!
    That shit always stood out to me.
    Parallels between:
    -Orells eagle and the eagle tattoo
    -Both Mance & Asha speak of saving their people from needless death.
    -Both scenes have a horn with hieroglyphs.
    -Both POVs think about smashing the horn
    -The screech of Varamyr w/ the shadow cat and the screech of the horn.
    -The eagle was shadow binded and the blower was dragon binded
    There’s even more similarities when looking at it. I just feel like a douche leaving this large of a comment so I’ll leave it at that.
    Compare them yourself. I’d love to hear what you think.

  • @andrewc8441
    @andrewc8441 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting idea I think it's a bit simpler I think it stops all magic from breaching the wall. Going over the wall under the wall etc.
    The actual gates and entryways will allow magical creatures to pass.

  • @gonx9906
    @gonx9906 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    How does every dragon in House of the dragons hatch if there is no sacrifice?

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      So I think there probably are. Either by the stillbirths we see in the targs history somehow feeding into it or some blood magic done by the pyromancers who Daemon is seen talking about eggs with. I also assume at some point the knowledge the order had about the sacrifices was lost or deliberately hidden to bring about the slow decline of the ability to hatch new dragons until Dany did her ritual.

    • @johndinobuff583
      @johndinobuff583 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@michaeltalksaboutstuffdragons are magical animals but they're animals. There were several dragons that hatched, there were even some youngsters that didn't reach adulthood, some of which were probably eaten by the Cannibal. Take Dreamfyre for example, she was on an island when she laid eggs.

  • @tomasvrabec1845
    @tomasvrabec1845 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Fun fact. Orell means Eagle in Slavic languages.

  • @Ostturm
    @Ostturm 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    But what if the eagle incident actually explains another thing. And that thing is: how dragons breathe fire
    The fire was creating inside the eagle, but the bird did not had the capacity to withstand that fiery energy
    If one of major ingredients for a dragon is that "merged consciousness" than the Wall magic could have been a sort of catalizator for that process
    Just a thought

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      That is super interesting, would explain why they need a mind meld in the magic creation of dragons if the linked minds could somehow generate fire...

    • @Ostturm
      @Ostturm 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Exactly

  • @jasonyea7649
    @jasonyea7649 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great video I thought the same and I would go as far to say the old dragon lords of Valyria would voluntarily be sacrificed like the old,the sick it would be a honor to make all three heads be a family bond like thing

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I think there is a good chance of this and this is very possibly the explanation to the Dragons liking "The Blood of the Dragon". It could come from the ancestors who are stored as dragon souls who want their family to be powerful.

  • @jimhart4488
    @jimhart4488 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Uh, that "quick little route" from Dragonstone to Eastwatch is just over 1000 miles. Just how fast do dragons fly?

    • @MrJero85
      @MrJero85 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      50 mph

  • @DRourkey
    @DRourkey 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The whole point was to give the night king a dragon because they wanted that in the show. It was even worse when they made the whole plot point moot because Jamie is the only southerner who comes to help

  • @nichhodge8503
    @nichhodge8503 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I thought the 3 headed dragon on the Targaryen’s crest represented Aegon The Conqueror and his two sisters. And even though I’ve not read Fire & Blood (gonna) I believe (from what I’ve heard) that Aegon The Conqueror created that family crest

  • @Anubiszz512zz
    @Anubiszz512zz 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Lol someone else has probably already mentioned it, but the one Stark bastard guy making weirwood arrows for the dragons makes a hell of a lot more sense now. Seems like magic is still necessary to break the bond but Maybe he enchants the arrows or something? Obviously it never happened cause they came to peace probably because Aegon told the king who knelt about his dream.

  • @aprilmae274
    @aprilmae274 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I just love your thought bubbles.

  • @Bendylife
    @Bendylife 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think what would make more sense to me is that Magical beasts can't cross the wall. Maybe the wall rejects the magic in a creature, so worgs end up fine because the thing they are inside can still live without magic, but the eagle or the dragons have magic at their core, so expelling that magic destroys them.
    My reason is because needing three consciences is so specific when this was was built to keep white walkers out

  • @vizuall777
    @vizuall777 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    The show runners made zero effort to make sense of any of this. The things that happened in the show will largely not happen in the books. You can’t reconcile your brilliant theories using their shady example…

  • @matthewburdick4966
    @matthewburdick4966 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    But it didn't burst Hodor into flames...

  • @taelion
    @taelion 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Just from a legal PoV (in the german justice system) a wall implies sideways. If it is obvious that parts of your property are „pacified“ as german law puts it, anyone has to make the assumption that your whole property is pacified. But then again these barriers are not magical, they just are implicit.
    Side note: pacified in german is befriedet, with "fried" stemming from Frieden meaning peace. But it also can be found in Burgfried, which is a castle keep. So the implicicity of befriedet already starts when you have a major tower to observe your property.

  • @seanwilliams1166
    @seanwilliams1166 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Makes sense seeing that it was built to stop the others which are merged consciousness entity with the trees being a hive mind the bit of consciousness that merged into the human probably can’t go back

  • @BingeAddict
    @BingeAddict 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    22:33 When u started talking about the fence I wasn’t sure but for some reason I understand exactly what you mean😭💀

  • @jamesdavidjett
    @jamesdavidjett 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Neat! Your idea that the wall is trees covered in ice, and the river is the barrier, are ask what I kinda figured.. yay. I'm glad to know I'm not alone.. the ice king is bran the builder..

  • @tythealkemist9856
    @tythealkemist9856 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I assumed the dragon having 3 heads was just as simple as, one being, bonding with another, technically makes a 3rd distinct being 1+2=3 basically

  • @Priestah203
    @Priestah203 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Love your channel just subbed

  • @Glantonite
    @Glantonite 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I think the biggest crux to this video would be the dire wolf in the first chapter of the series.

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      That wolf always has issues with how it got past the wall on any level tbh I will probably have to cover the possibilities one day. But as shown in the map at the end the direct line from winterfell to the rough area of bloodravens cave to me actually shows you can have dreams sent to bran from him and in theory the wolf connection from the cave if needed without the link passing directly over the wall. So I agree there is some more problems to solve there but I think there is more likely some work around GRRM has in mind.

  • @GiubileiFernando
    @GiubileiFernando 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think the boundaries do extend beyond sides of the Wall. For 2 reasons: the first one is the most obvious and that's because otherwise the white walkers could just through the sides to get around it. it wouldn't be very effective unless they also have some kind of magical aversion to water or they attract krakens and sea dragons or something.
    The second one is because of the Five Forts that seemingly fulfill the same function as the wall even though they are just castles, not walls that fence off the whole North. So their magic must make an invisible wall between them that doesn't let the others pass through.
    It's also possible that while the weirwoods are inside thenwall, their roots extend very far to the sides and those roots channel the same magic.

  • @genghisjon877
    @genghisjon877 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It seemed to me that maybe Melisandre made the eagle burst, but I don’t know, and the Orel and Miri thing is a little different. Orel was a warg so that lingering in the eagle seems like it would be normal but with dragon and Miri would not even be close to the same thing.

  • @YaBoiDREX
    @YaBoiDREX 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Now in HOTD S2 they flat out say dragons can’t fly over the wall.

  • @Ragingcapitalist92
    @Ragingcapitalist92 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If that’s true, it kind of makes me wonder what happened with Jon because if he died and worged in the ghost, but then was resurrected, technically, that accomplishes the entire ritual with only two entities instead of three. Or even more interesting what if John is a three headed dragon because he has consciousness bond, with the dragon it’s self and with ghost

  • @AvalonCN
    @AvalonCN 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So, given the 3 headed dragon theory and if that’s true, Jon isn’t going to be a dragon rider in the books since he’s already had that bond with Ghost when he dies and wargs into him. If he were to ride a dragon, that would be a 4th head in a way. Interesting to think about, but we know book canon and TV canon are close, but not entirely the same.

  • @nahortesfaldet2313
    @nahortesfaldet2313 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wait a minute. The idea of three headed consciousness merge falls apart because Silverwing was, unlike Dany's dragons, hatched from a viable egg *without the need of blood sacrifice.* Her egg was put in a cradle and hatched normally, and the egg was laid like a normal reptile's.

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      My speculation is that if this is the case, back when the Targs were able to hatch healthy dragons that the sacrifices were likely coming from the orders like the dragon keepers and pyromancers doing rituals in the background. The fall of the dragonkeepers and the pyromancers as powerful orders does seem to line up on some level with the loss of the ability to hatch dragons.

    • @nahortesfaldet2313
      @nahortesfaldet2313 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@michaeltalksaboutstuff and what about wild dragons? That were never bonded to anyone but were born and raised by other dragons?

  • @jessejohnson8365
    @jessejohnson8365 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The only thing I don't like about this is Bran is capable of Warging Summer from in the cave. True he never comes back in while in summer but he's still able to remote out out of the cave

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I think this is a function of old COTF tree town that you want your wargs to be able to warg out from within for defensive purposes but don't want wargs from outside to be able to spy or have a bear rampage through your cave city. So one way blocking of that specific power for the cave and other tree towns makes sense to me as a defensive magic.

    • @mikimokrysz9430
      @mikimokrysz9430 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think the wights at Castle Black create some doubt that it's one-way. If it was one-way the wights shouldn't have been controlled once they got south of the wall.

    • @emrek99205
      @emrek99205 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      How was the Bran/Night King connection possible if it was blocked? Once that connection was established the wights were able to cross over the barrier as if the NK was controlling them by using Bran as a relay.

  • @michaelnewman4649
    @michaelnewman4649 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I kind of thought they somehow overcame the magic of the wall to protect the prince who was promised from the ASOIF prophecy

  • @lucasbakeforero426
    @lucasbakeforero426 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Your theories are amazing. You make it sound so simple and obvious, yet they are incredibly creative and hadnt heard many of them before. My only feedback would be to keep practicing your narration skills and perhaps rely a bit less on previous theories for every video.

  • @christopher1367
    @christopher1367 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Ever heard the phrase “you’ve lost the plot” 😂

  • @danlapointe5140
    @danlapointe5140 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The primary evidence supporting the theory of why dragons resist flying over the Wall lies in the eerie sensations felt by Gared and Will. These feelings are attributed to infrasound, emanating from the ancient volcano - the dragons' long-standing foe.

  • @ch33seweasel42
    @ch33seweasel42 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I just don't see a logical way that George lets this occur in the books in the same way, they had to have been a day or two ride out with Dany at Eastwatch in order for this to actually work. I get Dragons can cover distance, and that's fine. I'm okay with Rhaenyra recently making her trip to Harrenhall in seemingly a day. I'd be okay with Dany being able to cover a couple days of travel by foot in a matter of hours, I am still not able to wrap my head around how it took like 3 weeks for the water to freeze over in a land of always winter, and will never understand how they didn't die from exposure well before her arrival.

  • @criticalthot4179
    @criticalthot4179 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I just had a thought about the trees with faces. What if the people reading the stories the faces on the trees watching the stories play out in our minds. Just a theory.

  • @aprilmae274
    @aprilmae274 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is awesomeness! See, the way it reads to me, is that it is the shadows Mirri summoned that were key here. That is why a dragon burst frm her brow. Those shadows reanimated the eggs and woke dragons from stone. Conversely, the shadows Mel summon "go somewhere" too. Thoros mangaged to snag one to rezz/wake Berric. The other is in Robert Strong, prolly. Thoros did something exactly right just like Dany} and poof! Rhaego was never "alive"-Mirri's shadows invaded Dany's womb. And Mirri summons several. What happens to Rhaego in utero-that didn't happen because Dany went into the tent-THAT was ALWAYS going to happen as soon as Mirri summoned those shadows. Mirri was fucking with Dany when she tells her that. There is NO controlling shadows once they are here and once they are here, they do NOT leave. They stay. Patchface is trying to tell to Mel. He is DEF telling us, the readers. Patchface talks literal mad shit, hard to puzzle out some of it-but the shadows dancing and staying? He is talking about Mirri and Mel, etc. Those shadows. I do not think the binding is the same here-I wish I could say this the way I mean it. I will try. This is not the same as warging. That's why the dragon rider bond IS different than, say, Jon and Ghost or Varymyr and his mini-zoo. The fire part really matters as being the difference. It is also why the dragons can bond with many different people throughout it's life without the same flavor as warging does. You are right, Mirri's hatred will NOT come through-it was her shadows, not HER, that bring the eggs to life. Her death pays for the life only. SHE isn't warging, like how Orell is when he dies. It is the same...and different. Dany finishes it up with the pyre, etc. I think that is why Dany feels cleansed by the fire in her visions...she feels purified and she sees herself as a dragon. The pyre-fire cleanses. Mirri, Drogo, Rhaego/herself-cleansed by fire so they don't have all the baggage that Orell's eagle does. The way it ALL reads together to me, intentions matter A LOT as well. Dany's specifically...and Thoros's. The shadows themselves have no intentions after they do what they are summoned to do. The dancing and shit they do...some of the way they are described between Mirri and Mel-the shadows want to be "alive." I wish there was a way to talk about this instead of type, sorry.
    Silverwing. Go back to the Doom of Hardhome. The maester rushing back to Hardhome RIGHT before it blows up...that whole story-it tells me that SOMEONE tried to hatch a dragon at Hardhome. Which also means it is NOT just the wall that prevents them, in a way. The wall somehow protects the entire land mass. Otherwise, The Others can just sail the fuck around the Wall. And dragons can just fly over/around it. They can't. They SHOULD be able to. Dragons cannot go North and The Others cannot go South as long as The Wall is up. The wall seperates Southron-North from True North and it IS a magical barrier...but it is NOT limited as a barrier to being just THAT wall. Fuck the wall, there are ways around it. Without magic, it's just a big wall. There is something going on with the wall being more than a wall. I also think the Doom of Valyria likely has something to do with Valyrians experimenting on an Other. Or a Half-Other. There is something weird about Orell's bird bursting into flame-warged animals CAN travel over the wall. They have done it without any issues before. Mel might have done that to Varymyr, on accident. Val may have done it, too. It's a lot to go into here-but I THINK Val is a real option there. It's just a bird, even if it is a spy-so why target a bird when men are fighting hand to hand? There's more, but yeah-the bird WAS/IS weird. I'll look for some Val videos by you after this-or Craster and try to get into it there. Alasayne's dragon wasn't trying to fly over the wall during a battle/war situation. Maybe that is why Silverwing was repelled rather than bursting into flames? Because even though Alasayne pushes it, they aren't in war-mode. Her dragon simply won't/can't pass. Wana bet if she REALLY went for it, Silverwing dies a horrible death? Her dragon was never going to be able fly over that barrier. Alasayne can pass over-not her dragon. Like how the whytes can pass thru-but NOT The Others, themselves. It plays into why I think someone was trying to hatch a dragon egg at Hardhome. They couldn't fly a dragon there, not even from Essos-so someone tried to hatch one. The dummies. They learned the Hardhome way that Dragons cannot be north of the wall, at all.
    The wall doesn't HAVE to grow in order to work. It worked when it was a "new shorty". The Wall grows because of the trees inside it and because that's what ice does. And THAT wall HAS to come down before The Others can pass into the south. Whytes can pass, they figured THAT trick out-but not Them. Not yet. I am wondering if there is another loophole to try and manipulate tho. The Others def sent an agent thru the wall-THAT is why Waymar Royce's broken sword shows up with the Wildlings when they cross thru. Whoever brought THAT sword hilt is working with Others, Craster-style. And now the 2nd Lord Commander, in a row, has been killed by Brothers of the Watch-without a trial or anything. BOTH were murdered in mutinies. Back to back. One Lord Commander {Jeor} brought whytes thru. The second Lord Commander {Jon} brought Wildlings thru. In ALL of Night's Watch history that we know of-something like THIS has NEVER happened. It MATTERS. To me this reads like there is a loophole somewhere and The Others are going for it. Baby Monster, Craster's son, is at Castle Black. We know his brothers are Coming. Maybe one has. Someone sure has. For sure. That broken sword of Waymar's...Craster's confidence in remaining "safe"-people and The Others can make deals of some type, in some kind of way. Somewhere, someone knows how to talk to The Others. Or the Others know how to communicate somehow with humans. The Others are trying to find a way without bringing the wall down..OR they are trying to bring the wall down without a horn. I can't tell if The Others want the wall brought down or if They know that is bad for EVERYONE if the Giants wake up. To me it reads like The Others are trying break the magic somehow without bringing the wall down-whether that is simply because they have NO other way {no horn to blow} to pass, or if they are afraid of what happens when they do. No matter what, they are clearly limited in what They can do to get around the wall but they ARE trying.

  • @Baamthe25th
    @Baamthe25th 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If the magic extended to the side of the wall, and assuming it follows the curvature of the earth (instead of shooting in space, lol) then earth would be cut at least in two for dragons, and perhaps more since the walls not straight (so at least cut in 4, lol)

  • @pasqualecavallaro6671
    @pasqualecavallaro6671 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I agree with most of this explanation. The only difference I can add is if you think about it the wall was built by the 1st men and bran the builder, and the children using their magic, too keep the white walker contained, so that when they crossed the bond between the Night King and the walkers is broken much like you say with the wargs and the dragons, and like the Night King the children also created the 3 eyed raven after the night King turned and is a big part of that magic, when Bran becomes the 3 eyed raven and the Night King touches him it bonds them so now the Night King and his army can cross the barrier in the cave also when the magic is passed to Bran from the 3 eyed raven the magic weakened temporarily allowing the army to cross the barrier. Once they get into the cave they kill the last of the children of the forest and their spell is broken on the wall and Daenerys and her dragons can now cross and so can the Night King and white walkers and their army. That's my thought, the children and their magic is the key to the breaking of the bond, that's why they focused on the last child dying. The fence theory doesn't make sense, associate the wall with the boarder, if you go around the boarder wall where it ends and boarder patrol stops you you are still breaking in, Same with the wall in the story only reason they don't have a wall is because the white walkers can't swim but if on a boat I would suppose the children would have extended their magic barrier over the water. But if the magic barrier was broken either by the Night King touching Bran or the last children dying and can no longer maintain the spell would make more sense.

  • @Inthecity1939
    @Inthecity1939 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    *Made some minor grammatical edits*
    11:54 Drogon also acted like Drogo, when he didn't incinerate Jon after Jon killed his mother.
    Like a true Dothraki, they follow the strongest, and since Daenarys was their Khaleesi, it then made Jon the new Khal, the Stallion who would mount the world.
    Drogon recognized Jon's Targaryean blood, and Drogo's spirit with Jon's Khal-like succession, leading Drogon to believe Jon would be the Stallion who mounts the world, and this was the price.
    Drogo ultimately wanted his line to continue and dominate the land, like Tywin wanted. Yes, he cared for Daeni, she was hot and spicy and and had some taboo lineage, but like many in Westeros, they are drawn to the power first.
    Why Drogon left and never came baxk,i do not know.

  • @mccrie407
    @mccrie407 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Does it have to be a sacrifice? Or is this why the Targaryens had a tradition of burning their dead with their dragons? To continue the magic?

  • @AngDevigne
    @AngDevigne 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I wonder if this means the Others are essentially warging the wights.

  • @HellionImmortal
    @HellionImmortal 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    4:34 inspired by David Lightbringer's theories about The Great Empire of the Dawn: what if the 3 heads are Wyvern + Blood sacrifice to fire (=Dragon, created by GEotD, maybe by Bloodstone Emperor or smn) + rider

  • @AmorCorona5
    @AmorCorona5 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Sheepstealer could have flown NettleNan over the wall in the same fashion that Balerion flew Aegon I over Harrenhall which is by going high enough over it to bypass the barrier (I think I heard that theory from LML)

  • @dennisyoungblood942
    @dennisyoungblood942 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    9:50 that's not what happened. I hate to be a nitpick, no I don't, but Orell was the warg of the eagle, but Jon killed him when he and Stonesnake come upon the encampment. Sorry, that bothered the shit out of me

  • @tylerbryanhead
    @tylerbryanhead 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Game of thrones is one of those stories you have to read atleast twice. The first time the twists come out of nowhere, the second time you recognize the warning signs and hints like 2 books before. I'm on my second read through and its almost like reading a different story.

  • @chables74
    @chables74 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Algormancy!

  • @RandomGuy-lu1en
    @RandomGuy-lu1en 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    when cotter Pyke writes his letter about the journey to hardhome. The number of ships he mentions doesn't add up with what he started. Is this simply a mistake by George or is something weird going on?

    • @michaeltalksaboutstuff
      @michaeltalksaboutstuff  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I will have to look more into that. Hadn’t thought about it but it’s an interesting question that has sorta slipped by my radar

    • @RandomGuy-lu1en
      @RandomGuy-lu1en 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@camerondevoe4700 yeah and when you add the ships he mentioned as lost to the ones he currently has it's one less than what he started with!

    • @RandomGuy-lu1en
      @RandomGuy-lu1en 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@camerondevoe4700 really? I have only the German version and it doesn't add up there. Maybe a mistake during translation.

  • @leek5682
    @leek5682 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Danaerys discovered an out of bounds glitch. Really though the wacky speculation about how the wall was made is like 99% conjecture

  • @bovinicusdivinicus
    @bovinicusdivinicus 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You can very clearly see daenerys's dragon fly over the wall in episode 6 of season 7 add approximately 59 minutes in

  • @myt110
    @myt110 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The question is why does the wall break a consciousness merge.

  • @robluxipiech4033
    @robluxipiech4033 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ive just been smilkin skrobs, its where you make jello but instead of water you use sour cream and milk, once it sets you cover your filthy body in the sun until it dries enough to be smoked, then ya wear a ski mask and reverse rob a store by feeding the vcashier the smilk chips, they will be so thankful, they always are, also game of thrones and stuff

  • @86godhand
    @86godhand 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    4:30 not sure, i thought their 2 separate heads combine into to 1 making it the 3rd mind

  • @embracethecosmos6297
    @embracethecosmos6297 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Do you think the shadow figures reported in the wall are the severed souls of those who made the mistake of flying over with 3 souls bonded?

  • @gablo1089
    @gablo1089 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Maybe the wall severing the bond is why the zombie thralls have to have the wall broken down to go south.

  • @jurb417
    @jurb417 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    6:30 could we just stop and say the dragon didn't turn against her by choice? it was killed and risen as a white walker ,or i guess white flyer in this case, by the night king... not exactly a betrayal imo but i see what you're saying

  • @nichhodge8503
    @nichhodge8503 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I do like the idea of 3 dragon eggs were on that funeral pyre 3 people went in and Drogon is my favourite dragon (even over Vhagar in HOTD) and yes is like Drogo a big badass dude who you don’t wanna fuck with and loves Daenerys and would lay down his life for her

  • @smhassassin9285
    @smhassassin9285 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Don't feel bad about ignoring timelines and geography. The writers kinda forgot they exist.
    Also, within your theory about dragon creation, the person who got sacrificed to create Silverwing could be the reason Silverwing wouldn't cross the wall. If that person was knowledgeable about magic, Silverwing could've just been like "lol NOPE" in the same way Drogon likes the Dothraki Sea.

  • @bdbear10
    @bdbear10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I don't really understand how the dragon is three-headed? You assume there was a sacrifice of some sort to create a dragon?

  • @GenerationBright
    @GenerationBright 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Nah, Viserion is hatched from Drogo, Rhaegal is hatched from the witch & Drogon is hatched fromDaenerys herself - her sacrifice of herself to the flames,

  • @jasonhagan3562
    @jasonhagan3562 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    At just under 3min into this video and I would say it's obvious how Danaerys got her dragon to fly to the other side of the wall. Fly around it by flying over the sea/ocean. It's not as if the wall extends all around the entire planet, just this continent and it's not as if Dragonstone isn't on the coast anyways

  • @donjuan9602
    @donjuan9602 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great job

  • @bc269
    @bc269 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Good One!!

  • @kpthefan6657
    @kpthefan6657 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Aegon the conqueror flew over the wall. He saw what was in the frozen north.

  • @shara1979
    @shara1979 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What about Jon & Ghost. Werent they warged a few times while crossing the wall?

    • @NuwandaLunaDragon
      @NuwandaLunaDragon 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      they lose connection and can't feel each other if they're on opposite sides

  • @minnumseerrund
    @minnumseerrund 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Brann the Builder cast Anti-Magic Wall

  • @AFlyingCoconut
    @AFlyingCoconut 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think it's just that, dragons are magical creatures. Not natural beings who existed by nature in Planetos, but created a long time ago.
    It's difficult to say what came first; The Dragons or Fire Magic, for when the dragons all died, so did fire magic, when Dany's dragon eggs hatched, the glass candles starting lighting again. If the existence of fire magic is tied to the dragons, then who or what created the first dragons from powerful, long-forgotten fire magic during the Dawn?
    The dragons won't cross a barrier that stop magical beings from crossing it, because they are magical beings.
    It's like the Warlocks of Qarth for example, are not magical beings, but mundane beings with magical powers. The direwolves are not magical beings either, just highly intelligent and powerful animals.
    Dragons on the other hand, much like the Others, are entirely magical beings, born of magic itself. A barrier made to stop one, will stop the other.
    So I believe Silverwing refusing to fly beyond the Wall is GRRM giving us more context about what the Wall is, not just a physical wall, but a barrier upon which magic cannot pass, and dragons, like the Others, are inherently magical beings.

  • @userabc222
    @userabc222 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    isn't viserion the most calm/loving dragon to Dany ?

  • @alsharpe7213
    @alsharpe7213 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think you’ve gone way overboard big guy

  • @swayback7375
    @swayback7375 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    3:23 that’s one surprisingly hairy egg and daemon knows it!

  • @michaelalan6459
    @michaelalan6459 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Dany squeezed the dragons through the door under the Night Fort