Someone posted this comment under an InDeepGeek video about Old Nan. In GoT Bran 4 (Chapter 24), “It was just a lie, he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. “I can’t fly. I can’t even run.” “Crows are all liars,” Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. “I know a story about a crow.” Bran didn’t say anything about a crow. How did she know?
I remember someone saying she was woman that was blood raven lover in his time before becoming rooted or something like that, it had a very interesting explanation about it but I forgotten already.
@@f.calamo6658 It explains her opinion about crows, but not necessarily why she would bring that up in response to what Bran said. Old people can often get stuck in physical routines while their minds (and what they say) can seem more chaotic (or out of left field) because their stream of consciousness has *so much* to pull from that may have little to do with the moment at hand. She's there to tell stories, and keep the kids entertained, and whatever else 'retired' wet nurses would do, so maybe it was just a stream of conscious comment coming from Bran mentioning "a lie" and flying and it reminded her of her known story, or maybe Bran was talking in his sleep....or maybe it's her special green magic. =)
It's fun to think GRRM described what a wolf would see and people would obviously see it as how a wolf would interpret the situation when it's actually a blatant description of what's in front of it.
If Nan couldn't walk up stairs, there is no way she would've survived a forced march to the Dreadfort. And had she lagged, some guard would've killed her. Exactly like we see on Arya's forced march to Harrenhall. So I'm inclined to believe Old Nan was Leaf as well.
I also mentioned it in a tangent that got cut for time but Pycelle pretended to be stooped and weak but could stand up in a deleted scene. This could on some level mirror Leaf pretending to be a weak Old Nan when she is clearly more capable than she lets on.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffit's such a great disguise in that world.. Even Pycelle. Besides cowardice, the thing that will get you overlooked in that world is "appearing weak and fragile". It's why LittleFinger is overlooked. The Clubfoot, etc.. There are so many examples in the current story and the histories of "weak" appearing characters turning out to be much *much* more than they appeared to be.
Finally, someone answered the question about what summer saw. This is my new favorite video ever! That has been nagging me ever since I read it, and no one’s explanation made sense.
Why do you need someone else's explanation,or interpretation,though? And why are you just blindly accepting his interpretation? He's just another fan,like yourself. He's not the author. He could be correct. But he could be wrong as well.
@@daemonthorn5888 i’m not sure why you decided I’m “blindly accepting” something. Do you know anything about me? This is something I’ve been thinking about and reading about for years. I agree there are few if any “right answers“. If you’ve read any of this authors works, you know that he creates ambiguous endings all the time. There are always multiple explanations. On this question, no one’s made more sense than this one. I’m not blindly following anything, I’m listening to everybody’s analysis, and this one makes the most sense to me and is the most interesting. It also connects best with the themes of the novels. What I like about this series is, there are multiple explanations. What I don’t like about this series, is people jumping on social media and making personal attacks because they don’t like somebody’s take.
I always thought it was a misinterpretation of a combination of the burning building and smoke, as summers viewpoint often is a misinterpretation of human things so I shrugged it of. However this could be an explanation, even though I have some troubles with lead riding dragons.
man, if i ever meet george, i just wanna say "old nan right....her legs are sore, her heart is weary, and she's heading home....right?" I could imagine him just winking and walking off
What would really happen: George: "Huh? Did you already buy the book and watch the shows? Great. Then I already got your money. I don't care or even know how it ends. Thanks for that mansion I got, though."
@@cl5470 bro you need to go talk to a professional lmao. there was a larger gap between the first Tolkien book (1914) and the last entry of his series written by himself (return of the king 1954). Stop being a whiny "see you next tuesday" and have respect for a mind greater than yourself. GRRM will release the books when he is damn well good and ready, and not before. He is NOT competing with tolkien, and if he takes longer, you have absoloutly NO right to complain. God youre such a whiny puke.
@@cl5470 if it was only about the money he wouldn't continue to participate in the fandom. Which he still does all the time. I think he's just burnt out of the series at his age and unable to finish, but he still cares
I never really liked the idea that Nettles was a child of the forest but the way you lay it all out makes so much sense. And this is the first explanation for the dragon that Summers saw that I agree with. Love your videos! They always get my mind spinning in the best way
There’s also this quote about Nettles from Rhaenyra: “She is a common thing, with the stink of sorcery upon her. My prince would ne'er lay with such a low creature. You need only look at her to know she has no drop of dragon's blood in her. It was with spells that she bound a dragon to her, and she has done the same with my lord husband.” So even Rhaenyra seems to imply nettles is some sort of magical, non-Targaryen being.
“Old nan was called old nan since Ned was a kid” people forget Ned in the books is only in his mid 30s. Old nan could’ve been called old nan back then.
not really. Ricard was born in 240. She was a wet nurse for his older brother meaning she could have easily been at winter fell since 230. To be a wet nurse she would have to be around 20, making her humanly possibly born around 210. - or in her 90s during Brans Stories and 60s during Edward's childhood. 60s for a medieval society, especially small folk, if Old. Not to mention that Blood Raven went to the wall in 230s. So her move more north would somewhat make sense if he became the Raven around that time.
27:15 mark it reads “He padded over dry NEEDLES and brown LEAVES”! Nettles/Leaf in a paragraph where Nan disappears 🤔 GRRM likes to hide hints and that’s kind of an obvious one to me! Surprised you missed that.
I love the theory! That dragon that summer sees has bugged me all along and it seemed very unlikely to be a throwaway line or an aborted plot thread. I can’t think of another theory that explains it at all except tge egg hatched under winter abd has been eating corpses and like rats in the lower crypts… it solves the mystery of old nan, explains why the focus on nettles and why she can ride… it also helps explain why the only children we see bran deal with is leaf… as well all that other stuff. It’s a pretty keen theory, first I’ve watched you, I think I’ll sub
I like the idea Old Nan is using a glamour. The knitting needles is an interesting thought. I don't think Nan is Leaf though. Leaf says she wandered whereas Nan seems to have stayed rooted (no pun intended) in Winterfell. I also asked GRRM about what happened to Old Nan at a signing for ADWD. I wish I could remember exactly what he said. At first he thought I was asking about the actress on the show who had died. But I was asking about the character and her fate after the sack of Winterfell. He said she's at the Dreadfort with the other Winterfell hostages. Again, I could be misstating this or he could change his mind (or he could have lied if he thought it was a spoiler for the book I was holding in my hand that I had not finished at that point?). I mostly remember worrying what Ramsay might do to her.
He has said in other interviews when asked that the female captives from Winterfell are at the Dreadfort. I think a character even thinks of it in book worrying about her there, but that is absolutely what he would say until the reveal IMO. He is barely lying to say she is there if that is what he has a character directly think and establishes that all the women from Winterfell are there. IMO with what he has said and set up he can turn around and say gotcha and it would work. In terms of Nan staying rooted she has for decades but leaf said 200 years. That is a lot longer than she was Nan. She probably has time to be like 5 people or more before Nan tbh
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff Is anything significant? Does anything matter is you set up a story so that you can turn around anything you do? How can foreshadowing and symbolism mean anything if it's set up to never be concrete or definitive? Not trying to troll or be mean, but trying to understand why it's cool to write with no real purpose, where anything written can be turned to mean something else. Basically everything we have read so far may not matter and could just be countered and rendered moot, with the turn of a page. I don't think thousands of pages should be able to be ignored, with the writing of a chapter that changes it all to nothing.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff Saying that GRRM would lie about this just seems like cope tbh, I have a zillion examples of him saying "keep reading" or similar in response to fan questions, do you have any confirmed examples of him flat out lying about the facts of the story? The evidence is that he would be overwhelmingly likely to do the former and not the latter. Leaf says not only that she walked for 200 years but that she turned for home "because my feet were sore" else "I might be walking still". This is not compatible with going to Winterfell (clearly still the world of men and not "home") and sitting still for decades in between the walking and the going home.
@@ChrisVaustI would also add to this that George has confirmed he wouldn’t change his finish line because ppl got there 1st … I guess he would just seek to be more creative and take different roads to that destination. The destination however, would remain the same.
Love this video - I’d never really given old nan this much thought! Although I was knitting while watching this video and noticed I don’t really use my pinky fingers either… if the theory is correct what a brilliant and thoughtful detail!
I think Nettle Nan makes perfect sense, because I think a lot of phrases that are thrown around and Stark customs come from children of the forest involvement, and possibly because of their bloodline being particularly prone to warging. Out of all of the Stark children, all of them can warg to some degree, that's pretty impressive and doesn't seem to be the norm everywhere else or even with any other family that we know of, so it makes sense that the Children would want to form a close relationship with the family that is the most likely to provide them with greenseers. Then when they are told a Bran Stark child will be the next greenseer, it would only make sense that they would want to be involved and help prepare him as early on as possible, so the Nan part of Nettle Nan checks out. For the Nettles part, I have a few thoughts as to why this could work, and why it wouldn't even be coming out of left field. So we know dragon riding involves some kind of magic, intentional or not at this point, the Dragons only hatched through blood magic, binding the dragons in the first place seems to be some blood magic (not confirmed, but hinted at in HotD), the fact that not just anyone can even ride dragons implies there is something special about it that the average person can't do. So how could Nettles bond with Sheepstealer and why her? Given her description she isn't related to the targaryens at all, right? Well, in a story where a big plot twist is certain people being secret Targaryens, you would think the idea of "this Targaryen is secretly still alive somewhere" wouldn't be used too much. And yet, our current greenseer, the Bloodraven, a very important figure in this story, is a Targaryen. I think this was deliberate to set up Jon Snow in a way, by showing us that Targaryen magic and what I'll call "Ice Magic", warging, greenseeing, the magic the Others use, etc, are not opposites. They're not fire and ice, because the fire Targaryens can use ice magic in the form of Bloodraven. So if they're not opposite sources of magic, which I dont think they could be, because that would mean The Great Other and R'hllor are both real, and GRRM has said that gods dont really exist in this universe, then that means the source of magic is the same for both. This means Leaf, a magical creature, could easily be able to ride a dragon, another magical creature, and this sets up perfectly Bran and Jon Snow as dragon riders.
Bloodraven have first men blood. He's not just a Targaryen, he's also a Blackwood. That's why he can use both ice and fire magic you mentioned. But i think Nettles claiming Sheepstealer doesn't really need a magical explanation. Its just what it is, its like a dog can choose whos a friend and an enemy. Targaryens have blood magic with dragons but its not binding. They can claim dragons but dragons can also kill Targaryens who dont want to be claimed.
it kinda makes sence.. and since GOTR is medieval tmes ish... its not weird for peoiple to lose a finger or two over the years. Espesialy for winterfell and the cold. Artritis and just frostbite would be a good cover for this.
Okay...so, I've been following your stuff for a little while now. And ALL OF IT is good. Super insightful. However...I saw this title and I was like, "Ooooookay, this is a hard sell." Nope. Fully convinced. I'm on board. Sign me up for the "Old man is actually a 200+ year old dragon rider" club. I'm here for it. A+ stuff, man. Well done.
I can’t believe I just found this channel. I thought I knew almost all the theories but here I am listening to a credible theory the Old Nan is a Child of the Forest!
I thought this was going to be the first of Michael's videos that I disagreed with. This was actually the first thumbnail I saw of Michael's and I didn't watch the channel for weeks because I thought this was such a silly idea. Then worked my way through all of his videos so far and I have to say, I'm extremely impressed! Everything about the weirwood net, glass candles, stolen babies, weirwood pumps, is all absolutely spot on. Upon actually watching this, I have to admit.... You've sold it to me! Old Nettle Nan is real!
This is one of my favorite comments haha, I did know this one would be a tough sell and that a lot of people would have that initial reaction and I am glad I was able to make the case strong enough
One of the bigger mysteries of the series, in my mind, is how exactly a man who would have been over 100 years old went from being a major player in King's Landing to being an emaciated talking corpse who was plugged into the roots of a magical tree far north of the wall, and had foresight about the war between the living and dead. Or how he identified Bran as a successor. Or the whereabouts of his sword Dark Sister. The books haven't answered any of that (yet) and the show didn't even offer a modest explanation. Even knowing that he was in the Night's Watch for a time still doesn't offer even a shadow of an explanation for how he ended up there and why. This theory, as rough as some of the edges may be, does help bridge that gap a little and I'm glad for it.
Agreed, I think the Nettle Nan/Leaf meeting Bloodraven while she was out walking is actually just the most likely way he was recruited now that I have thought about it while covering this. I think it does certainly fill a bit of a gap and opens up a lot of potential for further looking for clues.
I could see it I suppose but she could also just be any other COTF. I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't expect those two to have a daughter unless we find some hint of it. But I currently don't have a lead for her identity to recruit bloodraven that is well thought out. If whoever she turns out to be is a love interest at some point or then it gets more likely
Bro.... You just poked holes in all my theories that Bloodraven was behind just about everything 😂. You are truly my Ser a breath of fresh air for the community
This is so cool. I love this so much and think that it makes a ton of sense. I have always wondered how old Nan knew so many creepy old stories. The dragon in the vision finally makes sense. Any thoughts on Hodor being one of the main people who ends up caring for Bran as he and Rickon escape being killed and then travel after? It was destined to happen on one hand, but it is also as though he is carrying on stewardship of Bran.
If you are asking once Hodor dies how does Bran get around? I could see flying home on sheepstealer and then having a team to carry him around once home but I have no super strong thoughts at the moment. A dragon certainly does seem helpful compared to a sled to get him home without being caught.
I totally agree with this. Every single line in a story is used to further the narrative in one way or another. Nothing is ever wasted. When we are told something, no matter how insignificant it seems in the moment, there is a reason behind it. Chekov's gun or yea you get it. And on the nettles is nan is leaf thing. Nettles are a plant. Leaf, plants. There is also a pomegranate bush variety called Nana. Idk if that tracks but it's there.
This can't be true, because GRRM is a gardener, meaning anything can be changed on his whim, which means nothing written so far is definitive, which means it doesn't actually matter yet, until GRRM is done and decides to make the ambiguous, unambiguous.
I've read the theory that the dragon Summer saw was a newly hatched one that was meant to be for Jon Snow (given to him as a baby by Raegar). But I don't think a newborn would be able to fly so swiftly and breathe that much fire. Your theory is honestly much more believable.
I was thinking it was the egg that Jacerys brought up w/him to Winterfell for the pact of Ice and Fire during the Dance of Dragons and that it was left somewhere safe in the crypts and possibly hatched when Jon was born, as it knew he would need a dragon. But I'm not sure how a dragon would survive down there by itself w/probably not much to eat to sustain it besides maybe some rats. Plus Jon doesn't have any dragon dreams that I can recall, just his wolf ones. But the theory that Sheepstealer is still alive and Old Nan is Nettles is a pretty cool one! It is weird that GRRM would just write that Nettles disappears never to be seen again after the Dance, so definitely a mystery that he's hiding there.
@@SaneMillennialnettles has been seen after the dance in reign of aegon the third . ser robert rowan led a army into the vale and encountered nettles and sheep stealer they fought. sheepstealer killed 16 and wounded threescore more soldiers. they where last seen flying deeper into the mountains of the moon. the mountain clans worship her and call her a fire witch. and the painted dog clan send young men there to give offerings and they are considered warriors if they come back burned as proof of making contact with her and the dragon
@@SaneMillennialalso the cannibal was never tamed and remained wild. he just took off and that was that but can possibly still be alive some place far east or back in valyria
The rest of your theory sounds great but 33:00 the actress is just ACTUALLY knitting in the scene, one of the pinkies are holding the part of the yarn shes working on to control tention, and the other just mimicks it. I know how to knit and always curled my pinkies in when i did it. The fabric is also likely for warmth/support for weak hands moving so damn fast lol
13:59 Master Cressen fell down stairs on his own, and had a permanent hip injury. Just as some more evidence of old folk not doing well around stone stairs 😅
I think it’s more likely that Nan was a real human woman that lived to an old age and when she died leaf took her identity. Now rather she died of natural causes or leaf sacrificed to to a weirwood I can’t say. But she assumed her identity through a glamor just as mance assume rattleshirts identity when he dies. I like that sheep stealer was flying over winterfell, although sheep stealer would be about 200 yrs old at that time. But it’s possible.
I said/was thinking this same thing on your last uploaded video (that nan, nettles, ghost of highheart, etc...) are glamored children of the forest. Dude your videos are the best (up there with LmL even better and more informative in some aspects). Keep it up bro!
Awesome 🎉 I’ve not heard the Nettle-Nan story so we’ll laid out and was genuinely excited about also furious about the “why didn’t it happen “ questions 😅 this is simple but a frequent question for why didn’t Leaf reveal herself to Bran after paste* when he began lessons? In the same vein why didn’t Sheepsteeler if Bran and co. could catch a lift out of imminent danger especially now that Bran is real and that was at least a blood relative if not her own blood in Hodor?(no need for hold the door if Sheepsteeler is currently in long term parking lol? Wow yeah it’s great 😻 I love it
This is an awesome theory! I always wondered about old Nan and the dragon in winterfell (while there aren't supposed to be any in westeros) My only issue is dragons cant fly over the wall. Maybe with the help of bloodraven and/or other children of the forrest they can. Does make alot of sense though.
I may or may not have been so curious about this I ended up making a whole video getting to the bottom of can dragons go over the wall and why or why not haha
Yayyyyy I made it to the video!! Gotta say I would've never thought of old nan. Your channed has opened my eyes to so many misteries of westeros. I've enjoyed it very much!
bro u keep blowing my mind with your theories... I always start like "naaaaah, he's gone too far this time..." and halfway through the vid I'm like "never has truth been more obviously truthful!!" hahahaha... this one just pushed me over the edge to, this is one of my favourite asoiaf channels on youtube ever!!
God I hope we do eventually get some kind of closure on the dragon over winterfell. It’s so interesting to me, and i definitely like this theory as an explanation for it. Great video, thanks for all your hard work! I enjoy your channel so much and you’re a big part of helping to keep my love for the series going. Before i found your stuff i kind of thought it seen most of the likely explanations and it was basically mined dry, but your creativity is really inspiring.
Amazing theory! If I may continue on your line of thinking, one could argue that sheepstealer has been living at winterfell all this time. How? Well, sheepstealer might be quite content with having nettles feeding him after 100s of years together. Just a lazy old dragon lying around in a warm cave somewhere, occasionally fed by nettles. Sleeping and staying out of the business of the world. But where? Why not the crypts? The older (deeper and warmer) sections have collapsed and cannot be accessed anymore. But what if they were intentionally collapsed to hide something on the inside?
There was another comment on the crypts video that also made a lot of good points about the idea of a dragon breaking out from Winterfell and TBH I am more open to the idea than ever that Sheepstealer did in fact dig himself a lil dragon pit under Winterfell... Probably with an exit from a tower that is burned from the inside out with suspicious amounts of force. (all details listed in a comment on my winterfell Crypts vids if you are curious) I do have a bit of an issue with him being the heat source for the walls however because IMO that needs to be older for how it was built to be forgotten. It wasn't mentioned to have been installed within the last couple hundred years. So dragon under Winterfell as not the heat source seems very plausible to me. As the heat source I see more issues.
This theory can compliment the Frey girl one, if the original Old Nan was the Frey girl it would explain why this Nan knows so much about Northern folklore.
1) Nettles are a kind of leaf. 2) If Leaf replaced the original Old Nan when Hodor was injured as a young child, is it possible that his magical “accident” in the books was more sinister? Like you said, he was the original Nan’s only relative and might have been the only one able to notice an imposter. In the show, something that bothered me was WHY Bran connected young Hodor’s mind with dying hodor. I was hoping for a better explanation in the books. Perhaps Bran will have come to understand who Old Nan is and be investigating her original entry into Winterfell, or being shown it by Bloodraven when it all goes down in the books. If he sees young Hodor about to blow her cover in the past, or put Nettle Nan in danger somehow, he may try to force his way into his mind as he is accustomed to doing, and try to communicate with young Hodor or show him a vision of his present self with Leaf Nan, only to accidentally hook his mind up to current Hodor as he takes his last stand.
"dry needles and brown leaves." Nettles are leaves with needles. Nan always carries needles. Nettles the (person) and children of the forest are brown.
I like the idea that Nettles found Daemon half-dead and brought him to the God's Eye where he was hooked up to the weirwoods. His body was never found.
Leaf talking about how long she's been walking around pretending to be a human is immediately prefaced by a reference to Old Nan. Fallen into one of Old Nan's tales. GRRM dropping a nudge? I'm thinking so. So is Sheepstealer lurking beneath the crypt, heating Winterfell, or just sheltering there because it's already naturally heated and dragons hate the cold?
I don't think this theory means Sheepstealer would be hidden underneath Winterfell, but rather came to Nan's rescue, but maybe. My only issue w/that or any dragon under there would be what are they eating to stay alive? Before I heard this theory, I figured it was from the egg that Jacerys brings up w/him to Winterfell to help seal the pact of ice and fire for his mother Rhaenyra and Cregan probably stored it under the crypts, but if it doesn't hatch during the destruction of Winterfell but much earlier, then it would need to have a food source down there. Winterfell is built on hot springs so if anything I think he'd stay warm down there due to that.
sheep stealer and nettles are prolly still hidden somewhere in the vale. the mountain clans still talk about a fire witch they worship and the painted dog blanching men to prove their men brought food and offerings and aren’t considered warriors unless they come back with some form of burns as proof they made contact with the witch and her dragon. they where last seen flying deeper into the mountains of the moon by ser robert rowan after marching his army to the vale. sheep stealer killed 16 men and wounded threescore more
I remember reading that bit about the great winged snake and feeling sick to the stomach because I couldn't work out what it was symbolising or what it was. I am in awe. The cogs have clunked into place. These videos make me want to read this series again!
I thought that dragon was a descendant of Vermithor's who made a lair around the hot spring and ate those dog-sized rats from the crypts but yours is much cooler
26:50 OMG YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND AND EXPLAINED SO MUCH NOW!!! I was wondering what's up w/that DRAGON that I KNOW is a real dragon that Summer saw that others like David Lightbringer shrugged off as just some symbolic text, when I KNOW it is something literal Summer was seeing. My hypothesis was that it was the egg left under the crypts at Winterfell that had either hatched during the destruction of Winterfell or maybe when Jon was born and was somehow surviving off of rats or something as it grew before it was released by the destruction. This ties everything together so well though in ways I never imagined! I didn't realize Old Nan could be that important of a character and be Leaf herself or Nettles! Crazy! You earned my sub now and wish I knew about this channel earlier!
Sheep stealer could have been nearby, drawn to, or possibly contributing to, the underground hot springs system that comes from deep underground that heats Winterfell, no? Or Sheep Stealer could have possibly laid a clutch of dragon eggs somewhere in the north, if Nettle Nan went to Winterfell. We don’t know what gender sheep stealer is, and we don’t know all the factors that go into a dragon producing eggs. And we know dragons can burrow through rock to some extent, and that in the cold, many animals go into a hibernation state-needing little to no nutrients, and essentially going into stasis. And the cold preserves, like you mentioned. Sheep stealer could have awakened because of the comet plus the call of old nan, Anyways. That’s just a thought I had.
Hmm, thanks for answering my nutrient question w/the hibernation hypothesis, as I thought there could've been a dragon egg placed down there for the pact of Ice and Fire during the Dance, but is that just a theory others have said? I thought it was stated in the book that Jacerys may have brought a dragon egg w/him to help seal the deal, but maybe not. Or others kept saying maybe Queen Alysanne's dragon could've laid eggs there on her visits before. I could see one being kept safe down in the cyrpts for Jon as a secret Targ too and maybe it hatched when Jon was born or brought to Winterfell.
Great video...I like the idea of old Nan being a Child of the forest (cotf). Though I'm not sure about her being Nettles or a Dragon rider. Could Nettles be a Cotf? Maybe, although I think it's often a fallacy to club similar characters as the same person. Also, I don't think we will be getting a person connected to old god magic riding a dragon before Jon, imo that's what is going to make him special. Lastly, I don't think we are going to get any dragon from the dance of dragons to come back in the main series. It's one thing to have a really old tree wizard stuck in a cave actually be a very prominent mysterious character from the past. It's completely different to do that with a dragon. That would be very deus ex machina. From a story telling perspective, the current generation has to overcome things on their own, they doesn't get secret fully grown dragons from the Past, they only get knowledgeable old mentors who can teach them how to fight.
There was an "antlered human" in the harrenhall godswood in the HOTD finale tonight. As far as I know that's the first canon depiction matching one of the Green Men... Old Nan says the green men are antlered. More credence?
Damn this is some of the best writing on the nan-cotf connection I've ever heard. I'm only 20 minutes in, but couldn't resist hopping in to say: IT'S ALL TIME TRAVELING ARYA! Nettles, Nan, and Leaf are *all* Arya coded. Arya's used Nan as a false identity. She's cared for Bran going back to the crypt prank. She's skinny and brown and needlesome, I mean nettlesome. Leaf reminds Bran of Arya on sight. Time is like a river for most men, but the greenseers move in all directions on the green sea. (Shoutout LML + Ravenous Reader) That whole "what's west of Westeros" bit from GOT was alluding to Arya's endgame of timetravel shenanigans. And that's before I get into Varys > Bloodraven, which is suuuuper relevant here
@thekrakensdaughter So you have to go real hard on "time is like water" imagery. The geography isn't important, just that Arya is exploring the "sea" as her endgame. Blodraven has that whole "most men experience time as a river, flowing one direction. But not greenseers." Coupled with Tyrion's boat getting timetraveled, which makes Haldon exclaim, "rivers only go one way!" There's an important cryptic pun: GreenSeers traverse the Green Sea. I.e. Weirwood magic allows free motion across time
This makes a surprising amount of sense. I have to wonder what an alternate reality looks like where the books came out in a more timely manner - I feel like in some ways the fandom has flourished because we've had so much time to comb through every detail of the story, leading to theories like these
I think that is certainly possible and her being a COTF doesn't conflict with that at all and in my opinion I think that it might even help. Also if she was from way north he could both be a descendant of Dunk and have actual Giant's Blood from way back on his Old Nan side. Double big boy blood in Hodor, and a wilding from north of the wall thinks he has giant's blood
Doing some Elden Ring theorizing for an upcoming video of mine and I had to come back to this theory because I think I found its parallel in Elden Ring that *practically* confirms it’s existence in ASOIAF Thank goodness I remembered your video, I thought I was crazy for coming to this conclusion in another piece of George’s work but I’m glad to see we came to similar theories This guy just can’t help but repeat himself haha
Being an old woman is a good cover for someone with 3 fingers. Older people tend to have deformed arthritic fingers, so disguising your hands as being claw-like would prevent people from asking questions.
Actually this all makes so much sense. It accounts for the dragon supposedly being deep in the crypts of winterfell too. And might account for why GRRM is getting the dance of dragons series done before finishing ASOIAF to try and seed some more back story to help make the ending of ASOIAF make more sense. 🧐
Maybe there's a reason Nettles and Daemon got on so well...maybe she advised him about the Isle of Faces to go to and learn to hone his magics and leave Westeros glamoured if he survived...
It is also so early in her walking the world of men in theory I wonder if we see some language lessons with those two. He speaks two languages, and I am sure would swap lessons for magic knowledge and stuff about the true tongue.
One minor add to the last bit of your video: knitting in a cold place such as Winterfell would suck. It’s a pretty dexterous activity and you can’t really knit with gloves on, leaving your hands pretty exposed to cold ambient air. However you could wrap your pinky and ring finger while leaving your other fingers exposed since (in continental knitting anyway) those fingers just support the needles. Honestly it’s a pretty sick way to hide that you don’t have five fingers while implying you have five fingers.
I’m currently addicted to your videos mate, I keep commenting for the algorithm 🤞🏻 Absolutely amazing content again, I definitely think nettles is leaf, I always have, and you’ve almost got me convinced with this old nan stuff, I could imagine leaf/nettles/old nan as a prologue/epilogue chapter
Yes! Can't believe I just found this for the first time. I've argued since 2011 that Bran will be a dragon rider due to so many clues: the promise of the 3-eyed crow that he will fly; his idolizing Aemon the Dragonknight; Tyrion making the special saddle for him to ride; his moping through his chapters in Book 2 because he wishes he was riding instead; the symbolism of the glass candles representing dragon riders in the Citadel, where there are three black candles and one green candle; the French meaning of the name Bran being a flaming sword; and it would really only make sense for him to be widely considered as a candidate for king at the end, at least outside of the North, to rival other dragon riders if he was a victorious dragon rider too in the Great War. Also loved GreyArea's videos for several years on Nettles being a child of the forest. Always thought that Leaf has to appear in disguise ealier in the story based on what she says in Bloodraven's cave. Also have always tended to the think that Summer sees a real dragon leaving Winterfell and wanted a good explanation for this. This theory perfectly weaves all of the that together! A Theory of Ice & Fire from Quora here, Jeff
Maybe old nan was a real woman for a while, but at some point got kidnapped and had a CotF slip into her life. Kind of like how synths from fallout will insert themselves into the population
Hi, just recently started watching your videos and I must say your theories' are a lot better than most. I like this theory of nan being Leaf, but I have seen this said a lot of time about nans' fingers while she is knitting, as a long time knitter you don't use all your fingers, especially on the needle you are working with it would probably be only the first 2 fingers. You could say that theory of it being Leaf with nan having her 3rd finger and pinky bound is the clue, but I wouldn't say the knitting, not unless she wasn't taught how to hold the needles.
Damn this really is an interesting theory - well put! Now I've just quickly tossed an idea how Sheepstealer could be tied into the story later on. So I have a theory Bran is Night King. I don't want to go into much detail and I know many book readers hate the thought of NK even be a thing in the books but I believe GRRM just hasn't brought him on the stage yet. Anyway, during the battle for the dawn (show S8E3), Bran is observing the battle and at one point all seems hopeless and he decides to make a move - warg back in time to warn CotF to not create White Walkers at all. Just a silly logic a 10 year old Bran could have and think it could work. But he's been warging (observing the battle by warging) for so long that he 'drowns' and is stuck back in time. Back in that time period, he has a 'new life' and becomes the first Stark, builds Winterfell, raises the wall etc. and also of course warns CotF to not create WW. But they're smart enough to understand how time 'works' and at one point kidnap him and turn him into a WW - the Night King. Because that's what was always bound to happen. Anyway, since the young Bran at the cave found about Sheepstealer, he knows there's a dragon about, and later on long after he's been the Night King for thousands (?) of years and is in the ASoIaF present - he steals Sheepstealer by killing him and turning him into an ice dragon, which he then rides to destroy the wall and go down to Winterfell. That way the books have their ice dragon and that stupid plot from the show is not needed.
bran is named for bran the blessed. bran the blessed is a welsh mythic hero the welsh are strongly associated with sheep bran being ferried back to winterfell by sheepstealer fits perfectly.
I also really like the theory of Leaf being Nettles. It could make sense for her earliest years pretending to be human. If Damon, of all people, was the one to teach Leaf a lot (brushing her hair, how to dress, courtesies) that would be crazy.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i came from your elden ring cross over video and I'm screaming every time you say her three fingers. There's even a little blind old woman finger reader
Someone posted this comment under an InDeepGeek video about Old Nan.
In GoT Bran 4 (Chapter 24),
“It was just a lie, he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. “I can’t fly. I can’t even run.”
“Crows are all liars,” Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. “I know a story about a crow.”
Bran didn’t say anything about a crow. How did she know?
I remember someone saying she was woman that was blood raven lover in his time before becoming rooted or something like that, it had a very interesting explanation about it but I forgotten already.
@@f.calamo6658 It explains her opinion about crows, but not necessarily why she would bring that up in response to what Bran said. Old people can often get stuck in physical routines while their minds (and what they say) can seem more chaotic (or out of left field) because their stream of consciousness has *so much* to pull from that may have little to do with the moment at hand. She's there to tell stories, and keep the kids entertained, and whatever else 'retired' wet nurses would do, so maybe it was just a stream of conscious comment coming from Bran mentioning "a lie" and flying and it reminded her of her known story, or maybe Bran was talking in his sleep....or maybe it's her special green magic. =)
D A M N
I'm looking for this indeepgeek video but can't find it. Can you tell me the video's title? tnks!
I was listening to this part recently and thought her response was very odd
It's fun to think GRRM described what a wolf would see and people would obviously see it as how a wolf would interpret the situation when it's actually a blatant description of what's in front of it.
Bran:I don't like your stories
OLD Nan: my little lord,not MY stories..the stories. The stories are . They're older than me,and even older than YOU...
If Nan couldn't walk up stairs, there is no way she would've survived a forced march to the Dreadfort. And had she lagged, some guard would've killed her. Exactly like we see on Arya's forced march to Harrenhall. So I'm inclined to believe Old Nan was Leaf as well.
I also mentioned it in a tangent that got cut for time but Pycelle pretended to be stooped and weak but could stand up in a deleted scene. This could on some level mirror Leaf pretending to be a weak Old Nan when she is clearly more capable than she lets on.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffit's such a great disguise in that world.. Even Pycelle.
Besides cowardice, the thing that will get you overlooked in that world is "appearing weak and fragile".
It's why LittleFinger is overlooked. The Clubfoot, etc..
There are so many examples in the current story and the histories of "weak" appearing characters turning out to be much *much* more than they appeared to be.
This explains Nan's catchphrase: "Fingers three, leave me be. Fingers four, hold the door"
😂
The words of house Nan.
RIP HODOR
Finally, someone answered the question about what summer saw. This is my new favorite video ever! That has been nagging me ever since I read it, and no one’s explanation made sense.
Why do you need someone else's explanation,or interpretation,though? And why are you just blindly accepting his interpretation? He's just another fan,like yourself. He's not the author. He could be correct. But he could be wrong as well.
@@daemonthorn5888 i’m not sure why you decided I’m “blindly accepting” something. Do you know anything about me?
This is something I’ve been thinking about and reading about for years.
I agree there are few if any “right answers“. If you’ve read any of this authors works, you know that he creates ambiguous endings all the time. There are always multiple explanations.
On this question, no one’s made more sense than this one. I’m not blindly following anything, I’m listening to everybody’s analysis, and this one makes the most sense to me and is the most interesting. It also connects best with the themes of the novels.
What I like about this series is, there are multiple explanations. What I don’t like about this series, is people jumping on social media and making personal attacks because they don’t like somebody’s take.
@@daemonthorn5888I bet you're a hoot at parties.
I always thought it was a misinterpretation of a combination of the burning building and smoke, as summers viewpoint often is a misinterpretation of human things so I shrugged it of. However this could be an explanation, even though I have some troubles with lead riding dragons.
@@daemonthorn5888Why are so many so many banal assumptions lol
man, if i ever meet george, i just wanna say "old nan right....her legs are sore, her heart is weary, and she's heading home....right?" I could imagine him just winking and walking off
What would really happen:
George: "Huh? Did you already buy the book and watch the shows? Great. Then I already got your money. I don't care or even know how it ends. Thanks for that mansion I got, though."
@@cl5470 bro you need to go talk to a professional lmao. there was a larger gap between the first Tolkien book (1914) and the last entry of his series written by himself (return of the king 1954).
Stop being a whiny "see you next tuesday" and have respect for a mind greater than yourself. GRRM will release the books when he is damn well good and ready, and not before. He is NOT competing with tolkien, and if he takes longer, you have absoloutly NO right to complain. God youre such a whiny puke.
@@cl5470 bro u need therapy
@@cl5470 if it was only about the money he wouldn't continue to participate in the fandom. Which he still does all the time. I think he's just burnt out of the series at his age and unable to finish, but he still cares
@@Twkd1988 😅
I never really liked the idea that Nettles was a child of the forest but the way you lay it all out makes so much sense. And this is the first explanation for the dragon that Summers saw that I agree with. Love your videos! They always get my mind spinning in the best way
I cannot wait to see Nettles and Sheepstealer. ✨
There’s also this quote about Nettles from Rhaenyra: “She is a common thing, with the stink of sorcery upon her. My prince would ne'er lay with such a low creature. You need only look at her to know she has no drop of dragon's blood in her. It was with spells that she bound a dragon to her, and she has done the same with my lord husband.”
So even Rhaenyra seems to imply nettles is some sort of magical, non-Targaryen being.
“Old nan was called old nan since Ned was a kid” people forget Ned in the books is only in his mid 30s. Old nan could’ve been called old nan back then.
Idk maybe, it more implies she’s looked like the SAME for 30 odd years, which does sorta happen sometimes but super rare.
not really.
Ricard was born in 240.
She was a wet nurse for his older brother meaning she could have easily been at winter fell since 230.
To be a wet nurse she would have to be around 20, making her humanly possibly born around 210. - or in her 90s during Brans Stories and 60s during Edward's childhood. 60s for a medieval society, especially small folk, if Old.
Not to mention that Blood Raven went to the wall in 230s. So her move more north would somewhat make sense if he became the Raven around that time.
Yeah theres definitely a couple of holes in this otherwise pretty great theory
Could be that her daughter is also called Nan
People then called them Young Nan and Old Nan.
27:15 mark it reads “He padded over dry NEEDLES and brown LEAVES”! Nettles/Leaf in a paragraph where Nan disappears 🤔 GRRM likes to hide hints and that’s kind of an obvious one to me! Surprised you missed that.
I love the theory!
That dragon that summer sees has bugged me all along and it seemed very unlikely to be a throwaway line or an aborted plot thread. I can’t think of another theory that explains it at all except tge egg hatched under winter abd has been eating corpses and like rats in the lower crypts… it solves the mystery of old nan, explains why the focus on nettles and why she can ride… it also helps explain why the only children we see bran deal with is leaf… as well all that other stuff.
It’s a pretty keen theory, first I’ve watched you, I think I’ll sub
He padded over dry NEEDLES and brown LEAVES...before he saw the Dragon
Yep, upon hearing this theory and looking at the text, I think that was definitely intentional by GRRM. Damn, he's good!
I like the idea Old Nan is using a glamour. The knitting needles is an interesting thought. I don't think Nan is Leaf though. Leaf says she wandered whereas Nan seems to have stayed rooted (no pun intended) in Winterfell. I also asked GRRM about what happened to Old Nan at a signing for ADWD. I wish I could remember exactly what he said. At first he thought I was asking about the actress on the show who had died. But I was asking about the character and her fate after the sack of Winterfell. He said she's at the Dreadfort with the other Winterfell hostages. Again, I could be misstating this or he could change his mind (or he could have lied if he thought it was a spoiler for the book I was holding in my hand that I had not finished at that point?). I mostly remember worrying what Ramsay might do to her.
He has said in other interviews when asked that the female captives from Winterfell are at the Dreadfort. I think a character even thinks of it in book worrying about her there, but that is absolutely what he would say until the reveal IMO. He is barely lying to say she is there if that is what he has a character directly think and establishes that all the women from Winterfell are there. IMO with what he has said and set up he can turn around and say gotcha and it would work.
In terms of Nan staying rooted she has for decades but leaf said 200 years. That is a lot longer than she was Nan. She probably has time to be like 5 people or more before Nan tbh
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff Is anything significant? Does anything matter is you set up a story so that you can turn around anything you do? How can foreshadowing and symbolism mean anything if it's set up to never be concrete or definitive? Not trying to troll or be mean, but trying to understand why it's cool to write with no real purpose, where anything written can be turned to mean something else. Basically everything we have read so far may not matter and could just be countered and rendered moot, with the turn of a page. I don't think thousands of pages should be able to be ignored, with the writing of a chapter that changes it all to nothing.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff Saying that GRRM would lie about this just seems like cope tbh, I have a zillion examples of him saying "keep reading" or similar in response to fan questions, do you have any confirmed examples of him flat out lying about the facts of the story? The evidence is that he would be overwhelmingly likely to do the former and not the latter.
Leaf says not only that she walked for 200 years but that she turned for home "because my feet were sore" else "I might be walking still". This is not compatible with going to Winterfell (clearly still the world of men and not "home") and sitting still for decades in between the walking and the going home.
@@ChrisVaustI would also add to this that George has confirmed he wouldn’t change his finish line because ppl got there 1st … I guess he would just seek to be more creative and take different roads to that destination. The destination however, would remain the same.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffsomeone considers Nan in book 3 orn4 but I can't remember who or which. Probably bran.
Someone needs to get David lightbringer to watch this. I love this theory
Love this video - I’d never really given old nan this much thought! Although I was knitting while watching this video and noticed I don’t really use my pinky fingers either… if the theory is correct what a brilliant and thoughtful detail!
I think Nettle Nan makes perfect sense, because I think a lot of phrases that are thrown around and Stark customs come from children of the forest involvement, and possibly because of their bloodline being particularly prone to warging. Out of all of the Stark children, all of them can warg to some degree, that's pretty impressive and doesn't seem to be the norm everywhere else or even with any other family that we know of, so it makes sense that the Children would want to form a close relationship with the family that is the most likely to provide them with greenseers. Then when they are told a Bran Stark child will be the next greenseer, it would only make sense that they would want to be involved and help prepare him as early on as possible, so the Nan part of Nettle Nan checks out.
For the Nettles part, I have a few thoughts as to why this could work, and why it wouldn't even be coming out of left field. So we know dragon riding involves some kind of magic, intentional or not at this point, the Dragons only hatched through blood magic, binding the dragons in the first place seems to be some blood magic (not confirmed, but hinted at in HotD), the fact that not just anyone can even ride dragons implies there is something special about it that the average person can't do. So how could Nettles bond with Sheepstealer and why her? Given her description she isn't related to the targaryens at all, right?
Well, in a story where a big plot twist is certain people being secret Targaryens, you would think the idea of "this Targaryen is secretly still alive somewhere" wouldn't be used too much. And yet, our current greenseer, the Bloodraven, a very important figure in this story, is a Targaryen. I think this was deliberate to set up Jon Snow in a way, by showing us that Targaryen magic and what I'll call "Ice Magic", warging, greenseeing, the magic the Others use, etc, are not opposites. They're not fire and ice, because the fire Targaryens can use ice magic in the form of Bloodraven. So if they're not opposite sources of magic, which I dont think they could be, because that would mean The Great Other and R'hllor are both real, and GRRM has said that gods dont really exist in this universe, then that means the source of magic is the same for both. This means Leaf, a magical creature, could easily be able to ride a dragon, another magical creature, and this sets up perfectly Bran and Jon Snow as dragon riders.
Bloodraven have first men blood. He's not just a Targaryen, he's also a Blackwood. That's why he can use both ice and fire magic you mentioned.
But i think Nettles claiming Sheepstealer doesn't really need a magical explanation. Its just what it is, its like a dog can choose whos a friend and an enemy. Targaryens have blood magic with dragons but its not binding. They can claim dragons but dragons can also kill Targaryens who dont want to be claimed.
it kinda makes sence.. and since GOTR is medieval tmes ish... its not weird for peoiple to lose a finger or two over the years. Espesialy for winterfell and the cold. Artritis and just frostbite would be a good cover for this.
Okay...so, I've been following your stuff for a little while now. And ALL OF IT is good. Super insightful.
However...I saw this title and I was like, "Ooooookay, this is a hard sell."
Nope. Fully convinced. I'm on board. Sign me up for the "Old man is actually a 200+ year old dragon rider" club. I'm here for it.
A+ stuff, man. Well done.
same here^^ i start the clip now....
Yeah i saw the title and was like hold up. I'll give it a shot. I love an interesting theory.
exactly same, im halfway thru the video alreaady convinced
Old nan mounts the world
Aryas Face skin glamour made it look like she had different teeth, and Mance glamour that changed his teeth. Therefore glamours could create a finger
With a glamour,people see what they expect to see~Melissandre
This is the best Nan theory ive seen.
Wow how have I never heard this theory before! I just found your page and have found 3 plausible theories I’ve not heard elsewhere. Keep it up!
I can’t believe I just found this channel. I thought I knew almost all the theories but here I am listening to a credible theory the Old Nan is a Child of the Forest!
I love this. Thank you sir, been needing a new youtuber with new ideas
Oh wow! Nettle Nan, I LOVE it! Just found your channel from David Lightbringer and I'm already a fan. Good stuff!
I thought this was going to be the first of Michael's videos that I disagreed with. This was actually the first thumbnail I saw of Michael's and I didn't watch the channel for weeks because I thought this was such a silly idea.
Then worked my way through all of his videos so far and I have to say, I'm extremely impressed! Everything about the weirwood net, glass candles, stolen babies, weirwood pumps, is all absolutely spot on.
Upon actually watching this, I have to admit.... You've sold it to me! Old Nettle Nan is real!
This is one of my favorite comments haha, I did know this one would be a tough sell and that a lot of people would have that initial reaction and I am glad I was able to make the case strong enough
One of the bigger mysteries of the series, in my mind, is how exactly a man who would have been over 100 years old went from being a major player in King's Landing to being an emaciated talking corpse who was plugged into the roots of a magical tree far north of the wall, and had foresight about the war between the living and dead. Or how he identified Bran as a successor. Or the whereabouts of his sword Dark Sister. The books haven't answered any of that (yet) and the show didn't even offer a modest explanation. Even knowing that he was in the Night's Watch for a time still doesn't offer even a shadow of an explanation for how he ended up there and why. This theory, as rough as some of the edges may be, does help bridge that gap a little and I'm glad for it.
Agreed, I think the Nettle Nan/Leaf meeting Bloodraven while she was out walking is actually just the most likely way he was recruited now that I have thought about it while covering this. I think it does certainly fill a bit of a gap and opens up a lot of potential for further looking for clues.
"Padded over dry needles and brown leaves" I feel like it is so close to Nettle and leaf.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffdo you think ghost of high heart = daughter of bloodraven and leaf?
I could see it I suppose but she could also just be any other COTF. I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't expect those two to have a daughter unless we find some hint of it. But I currently don't have a lead for her identity to recruit bloodraven that is well thought out. If whoever she turns out to be is a love interest at some point or then it gets more likely
do you understand motive, opportunity and means? or do you need the author to spoon feed you every step the character took?! smh
Bro.... You just poked holes in all my theories that Bloodraven was behind just about everything 😂. You are truly my Ser a breath of fresh air for the community
This is so cool. I love this so much and think that it makes a ton of sense. I have always wondered how old Nan knew so many creepy old stories. The dragon in the vision finally makes sense.
Any thoughts on Hodor being one of the main people who ends up caring for Bran as he and Rickon escape being killed and then travel after? It was destined to happen on one hand, but it is also as though he is carrying on stewardship of Bran.
If you are asking once Hodor dies how does Bran get around? I could see flying home on sheepstealer and then having a team to carry him around once home but I have no super strong thoughts at the moment.
A dragon certainly does seem helpful compared to a sled to get him home without being caught.
I totally agree with this. Every single line in a story is used to further the narrative in one way or another. Nothing is ever wasted. When we are told something, no matter how insignificant it seems in the moment, there is a reason behind it. Chekov's gun or yea you get it. And on the nettles is nan is leaf thing. Nettles are a plant. Leaf, plants. There is also a pomegranate bush variety called Nana. Idk if that tracks but it's there.
Nana in a plant name means very small and is part of many different plant names. For example there is betula nana, the dwarf or polar birch.
Nana also means ‘spring’ or ‘spring greens’ in Japanese.
This can't be true, because GRRM is a gardener, meaning anything can be changed on his whim, which means nothing written so far is definitive, which means it doesn't actually matter yet, until GRRM is done and decides to make the ambiguous, unambiguous.
I've read the theory that the dragon Summer saw was a newly hatched one that was meant to be for Jon Snow (given to him as a baby by Raegar). But I don't think a newborn would be able to fly so swiftly and breathe that much fire.
Your theory is honestly much more believable.
I was thinking it was the egg that Jacerys brought up w/him to Winterfell for the pact of Ice and Fire during the Dance of Dragons and that it was left somewhere safe in the crypts and possibly hatched when Jon was born, as it knew he would need a dragon. But I'm not sure how a dragon would survive down there by itself w/probably not much to eat to sustain it besides maybe some rats. Plus Jon doesn't have any dragon dreams that I can recall, just his wolf ones. But the theory that Sheepstealer is still alive and Old Nan is Nettles is a pretty cool one! It is weird that GRRM would just write that Nettles disappears never to be seen again after the Dance, so definitely a mystery that he's hiding there.
@@SaneMillennial If old Nan in a CotF.. then it's possible she was caring for the dragon after it hatched?
@@SaneMillennialnettles has been seen after the dance in reign of aegon the third . ser robert rowan led a army into the vale and encountered nettles and sheep stealer they fought. sheepstealer killed 16 and wounded threescore more soldiers. they where last seen flying deeper into the mountains of the moon. the mountain clans worship her and call her a fire witch. and the painted dog clan send young men there to give offerings and they are considered warriors if they come back burned as proof of making contact with her and the dragon
@@SaneMillennialalso the cannibal was never tamed and remained wild. he just took off and that was that but can possibly still be alive some place far east or back in valyria
sheepstealer could still be alive! Balerion the black dread came from Valyria and lived until 92 A.C., so he lived at least 200 years
208
And he got injured as well, who knows how long he would have lived?
This was pretty inspired as far as asoiaf theories go. I didn't think I would be convinced and yet, here I am a proud nettle nan believer.
The rest of your theory sounds great but 33:00 the actress is just ACTUALLY knitting in the scene, one of the pinkies are holding the part of the yarn shes working on to control tention, and the other just mimicks it. I know how to knit and always curled my pinkies in when i did it. The fabric is also likely for warmth/support for weak hands moving so damn fast lol
So glad I came across this video! It's an eye opener for sure! Also I hope we get Nettles and Sheepstealer in the show 😢😢😢
13:59
Master Cressen fell down stairs on his own, and had a permanent hip injury. Just as some more evidence of old folk not doing well around stone stairs 😅
I think it’s more likely that Nan was a real human woman that lived to an old age and when she died leaf took her identity. Now rather she died of natural causes or leaf sacrificed to to a weirwood I can’t say. But she assumed her identity through a glamor just as mance assume rattleshirts identity when he dies.
I like that sheep stealer was flying over winterfell, although sheep stealer would be about 200 yrs old at that time. But it’s possible.
I said/was thinking this same thing on your last uploaded video (that nan, nettles, ghost of highheart, etc...) are glamored children of the forest. Dude your videos are the best (up there with LmL even better and more informative in some aspects). Keep it up bro!
Awesome 🎉 I’ve not heard the Nettle-Nan story so we’ll laid out and was genuinely excited about also furious about the “why didn’t it happen “ questions 😅 this is simple but a frequent question for why didn’t Leaf reveal herself to Bran after paste* when he began lessons? In the same vein why didn’t Sheepsteeler if Bran and co. could catch a lift out of imminent danger especially now that Bran is real and that was at least a blood relative if not her own blood in Hodor?(no need for hold the door if Sheepsteeler is currently in long term parking lol? Wow yeah it’s great 😻 I love it
I love it. It's super werid but it COULD happen. I can't wait to see where Nettlenan hid Sheepstealer.
This is an awesome theory! I always wondered about old Nan and the dragon in winterfell (while there aren't supposed to be any in westeros) My only issue is dragons cant fly over the wall. Maybe with the help of bloodraven and/or other children of the forrest they can.
Does make alot of sense though.
I may or may not have been so curious about this I ended up making a whole video getting to the bottom of can dragons go over the wall and why or why not haha
Yayyyyy I made it to the video!! Gotta say I would've never thought of old nan. Your channed has opened my eyes to so many misteries of westeros. I've enjoyed it very much!
bro u keep blowing my mind with your theories... I always start like "naaaaah, he's gone too far this time..." and halfway through the vid I'm like "never has truth been more obviously truthful!!" hahahaha... this one just pushed me over the edge to, this is one of my favourite asoiaf channels on youtube ever!!
God I hope we do eventually get some kind of closure on the dragon over winterfell. It’s so interesting to me, and i definitely like this theory as an explanation for it. Great video, thanks for all your hard work! I enjoy your channel so much and you’re a big part of helping to keep my love for the series going. Before i found your stuff i kind of thought it seen most of the likely explanations and it was basically mined dry, but your creativity is really inspiring.
Amazing theory! If I may continue on your line of thinking, one could argue that sheepstealer has been living at winterfell all this time. How? Well, sheepstealer might be quite content with having nettles feeding him after 100s of years together. Just a lazy old dragon lying around in a warm cave somewhere, occasionally fed by nettles. Sleeping and staying out of the business of the world. But where? Why not the crypts? The older (deeper and warmer) sections have collapsed and cannot be accessed anymore. But what if they were intentionally collapsed to hide something on the inside?
There was another comment on the crypts video that also made a lot of good points about the idea of a dragon breaking out from Winterfell and TBH I am more open to the idea than ever that Sheepstealer did in fact dig himself a lil dragon pit under Winterfell... Probably with an exit from a tower that is burned from the inside out with suspicious amounts of force. (all details listed in a comment on my winterfell Crypts vids if you are curious)
I do have a bit of an issue with him being the heat source for the walls however because IMO that needs to be older for how it was built to be forgotten. It wasn't mentioned to have been installed within the last couple hundred years. So dragon under Winterfell as not the heat source seems very plausible to me. As the heat source I see more issues.
Woah, this is an astonishing theory - completely plausible. I really want it to be true!
I think you're crazy, but I won't deny it was fun. Cheers 🍻
This theory can compliment the Frey girl one, if the original Old Nan was the Frey girl it would explain why this Nan knows so much about Northern folklore.
1) Nettles are a kind of leaf.
2) If Leaf replaced the original Old Nan when Hodor was injured as a young child, is it possible that his magical “accident” in the books was more sinister? Like you said, he was the original Nan’s only relative and might have been the only one able to notice an imposter.
In the show, something that bothered me was WHY Bran connected young Hodor’s mind with dying hodor. I was hoping for a better explanation in the books.
Perhaps Bran will have come to understand who Old Nan is and be investigating her original entry into Winterfell, or being shown it by Bloodraven when it all goes down in the books.
If he sees young Hodor about to blow her cover in the past, or put Nettle Nan in danger somehow, he may try to force his way into his mind as he is accustomed to doing, and try to communicate with young Hodor or show him a vision of his present self with Leaf Nan, only to accidentally hook his mind up to current Hodor as he takes his last stand.
"dry needles and brown leaves." Nettles are leaves with needles. Nan always carries needles. Nettles the (person) and children of the forest are brown.
I'd like to think Nettles was pregnant with Damon's child, and there are half children of the forest half Targaryan offspring out there.
in line with the missandei is a half CoF half human theory, WHAT IF SHE IS DAEMON AND NETTLES NAN CHILD OR GRANDCHILD 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I like the idea that Nettles found Daemon half-dead and brought him to the God's Eye where he was hooked up to the weirwoods. His body was never found.
Leaf talking about how long she's been walking around pretending to be a human is immediately prefaced by a reference to Old Nan. Fallen into one of Old Nan's tales. GRRM dropping a nudge? I'm thinking so. So is Sheepstealer lurking beneath the crypt, heating Winterfell, or just sheltering there because it's already naturally heated and dragons hate the cold?
I don't think this theory means Sheepstealer would be hidden underneath Winterfell, but rather came to Nan's rescue, but maybe. My only issue w/that or any dragon under there would be what are they eating to stay alive? Before I heard this theory, I figured it was from the egg that Jacerys brings up w/him to Winterfell to help seal the pact of ice and fire for his mother Rhaenyra and Cregan probably stored it under the crypts, but if it doesn't hatch during the destruction of Winterfell but much earlier, then it would need to have a food source down there. Winterfell is built on hot springs so if anything I think he'd stay warm down there due to that.
sheep stealer and nettles are prolly still hidden somewhere in the vale. the mountain clans still talk about a fire witch they worship and the painted dog blanching men to prove their men brought food and offerings and aren’t considered warriors unless they come back with some form of burns as proof they made contact with the witch and her dragon. they where last seen flying deeper into the mountains of the moon by ser robert rowan after marching his army to the vale. sheep stealer killed 16 men and wounded threescore more
Well done. One of the best GoT analysis videos I've seen!
Hey babe... Michael Is Talking About Stuff again!!
I remember reading that bit about the great winged snake and feeling sick to the stomach because I couldn't work out what it was symbolising or what it was.
I am in awe. The cogs have clunked into place. These videos make me want to read this series again!
This is completely brilliant. Thank you!!!!!
I thought that dragon was a descendant of Vermithor's who made a lair around the hot spring and ate those dog-sized rats from the crypts but yours is much cooler
Great video! You’ve got a new sub and I can’t wait for more!
Dang dude. You converted me into an Old NanStan.
26:50 OMG YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND AND EXPLAINED SO MUCH NOW!!! I was wondering what's up w/that DRAGON that I KNOW is a real dragon that Summer saw that others like David Lightbringer shrugged off as just some symbolic text, when I KNOW it is something literal Summer was seeing. My hypothesis was that it was the egg left under the crypts at Winterfell that had either hatched during the destruction of Winterfell or maybe when Jon was born and was somehow surviving off of rats or something as it grew before it was released by the destruction. This ties everything together so well though in ways I never imagined! I didn't realize Old Nan could be that important of a character and be Leaf herself or Nettles! Crazy! You earned my sub now and wish I knew about this channel earlier!
I call the first book, "A Game of Thrones" by GRRM, is really the "Book of Answers".
Every answer that had not been asked yet is in that book.
Sheep stealer could have been nearby, drawn to, or possibly contributing to, the underground hot springs system that comes from deep underground that heats Winterfell, no? Or Sheep Stealer could have possibly laid a clutch of dragon eggs somewhere in the north, if Nettle Nan went to Winterfell. We don’t know what gender sheep stealer is, and we don’t know all the factors that go into a dragon producing eggs. And we know dragons can burrow through rock to some extent, and that in the cold, many animals go into a hibernation state-needing little to no nutrients, and essentially going into stasis. And the cold preserves, like you mentioned. Sheep stealer could have awakened because of the comet plus the call of old nan, Anyways. That’s just a thought I had.
Hmm, thanks for answering my nutrient question w/the hibernation hypothesis, as I thought there could've been a dragon egg placed down there for the pact of Ice and Fire during the Dance, but is that just a theory others have said? I thought it was stated in the book that Jacerys may have brought a dragon egg w/him to help seal the deal, but maybe not. Or others kept saying maybe Queen Alysanne's dragon could've laid eggs there on her visits before. I could see one being kept safe down in the cyrpts for Jon as a secret Targ too and maybe it hatched when Jon was born or brought to Winterfell.
Have to go to bed but will continue AM. Brilliant!!!!
The Great Nanthern Conspiracy
Awesome work on the investigation and very interesting deduction! 😮
Great video...I like the idea of old Nan being a Child of the forest (cotf). Though I'm not sure about her being Nettles or a Dragon rider. Could Nettles be a Cotf? Maybe, although I think it's often a fallacy to club similar characters as the same person. Also, I don't think we will be getting a person connected to old god magic riding a dragon before Jon, imo that's what is going to make him special. Lastly, I don't think we are going to get any dragon from the dance of dragons to come back in the main series. It's one thing to have a really old tree wizard stuck in a cave actually be a very prominent mysterious character from the past. It's completely different to do that with a dragon. That would be very deus ex machina. From a story telling perspective, the current generation has to overcome things on their own, they doesn't get secret fully grown dragons from the Past, they only get knowledgeable old mentors who can teach them how to fight.
Old Nan can't be leaf because Old Nan is still in Winterfell killing Boltons
The Hooded Nan in Winterfell!!!
old nan is a dragon rider alright, the old dragon from the wall XD
😂😂😂
Leaf + Nan + Nettles = Leaf And Nettles. Say it out loud!
There was an "antlered human" in the harrenhall godswood in the HOTD finale tonight. As far as I know that's the first canon depiction matching one of the Green Men... Old Nan says the green men are antlered. More credence?
Damn this is some of the best writing on the nan-cotf connection I've ever heard. I'm only 20 minutes in, but couldn't resist hopping in to say: IT'S ALL TIME TRAVELING ARYA!
Nettles, Nan, and Leaf are *all* Arya coded. Arya's used Nan as a false identity. She's cared for Bran going back to the crypt prank. She's skinny and brown and needlesome, I mean nettlesome. Leaf reminds Bran of Arya on sight.
Time is like a river for most men, but the greenseers move in all directions on the green sea. (Shoutout LML + Ravenous Reader) That whole "what's west of Westeros" bit from GOT was alluding to Arya's endgame of timetravel shenanigans.
And that's before I get into Varys > Bloodraven, which is suuuuper relevant here
how does the west of westeros ties into time travel?
@thekrakensdaughter So you have to go real hard on "time is like water" imagery. The geography isn't important, just that Arya is exploring the "sea" as her endgame.
Blodraven has that whole "most men experience time as a river, flowing one direction. But not greenseers." Coupled with Tyrion's boat getting timetraveled, which makes Haldon exclaim, "rivers only go one way!"
There's an important cryptic pun: GreenSeers traverse the Green Sea. I.e. Weirwood magic allows free motion across time
This makes a surprising amount of sense. I have to wonder what an alternate reality looks like where the books came out in a more timely manner - I feel like in some ways the fandom has flourished because we've had so much time to comb through every detail of the story, leading to theories like these
This is such a great theory. I'm adopting it as headcanon.
I thought old Nan messed around with Dunk, and Both Hodor and Brienne are descendants
I think that is certainly possible and her being a COTF doesn't conflict with that at all and in my opinion I think that it might even help. Also if she was from way north he could both be a descendant of Dunk and have actual Giant's Blood from way back on his Old Nan side. Double big boy blood in Hodor, and a wilding from north of the wall thinks he has giant's blood
"Babe babe wake up, Old Nan has a dragon"
Damn, this is the *one* theory I've heard so far that adequately explains the dragon at Winterfell.
Doing some Elden Ring theorizing for an upcoming video of mine and I had to come back to this theory because I think I found its parallel in Elden Ring that *practically* confirms it’s existence in ASOIAF
Thank goodness I remembered your video, I thought I was crazy for coming to this conclusion in another piece of George’s work but I’m glad to see we came to similar theories
This guy just can’t help but repeat himself haha
Love it. But, also makes me sad, that I probably will never read it, as the story (probably) wlll never be finished.
Being an old woman is a good cover for someone with 3 fingers. Older people tend to have deformed arthritic fingers, so disguising your hands as being claw-like would prevent people from asking questions.
Actually this all makes so much sense. It accounts for the dragon supposedly being deep in the crypts of winterfell too. And might account for why GRRM is getting the dance of dragons series done before finishing ASOIAF to try and seed some more back story to help make the ending of ASOIAF make more sense. 🧐
Maybe there's a reason Nettles and Daemon got on so well...maybe she advised him about the Isle of Faces to go to and learn to hone his magics and leave Westeros glamoured if he survived...
It is also so early in her walking the world of men in theory I wonder if we see some language lessons with those two. He speaks two languages, and I am sure would swap lessons for magic knowledge and stuff about the true tongue.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff and Bloodraven was also another well placed Targaryen who was assumed lost,like Daemon...
One minor add to the last bit of your video: knitting in a cold place such as Winterfell would suck. It’s a pretty dexterous activity and you can’t really knit with gloves on, leaving your hands pretty exposed to cold ambient air. However you could wrap your pinky and ring finger while leaving your other fingers exposed since (in continental knitting anyway) those fingers just support the needles. Honestly it’s a pretty sick way to hide that you don’t have five fingers while implying you have five fingers.
Amazing stuff! It tracks so well and is so satisfying!!!
I’m currently addicted to your videos mate, I keep commenting for the algorithm 🤞🏻
Absolutely amazing content again, I definitely think nettles is leaf, I always have, and you’ve almost got me convinced with this old nan stuff, I could imagine leaf/nettles/old nan as a prologue/epilogue chapter
Wasn't there supposed to be a dragon under winterfell? Could it have been in a magical hibernation type thing?
Fuck yeah! I want this to be the case. Makes so much sense and good storytelling
Yes! Can't believe I just found this for the first time. I've argued since 2011 that Bran will be a dragon rider due to so many clues: the promise of the 3-eyed crow that he will fly; his idolizing Aemon the Dragonknight; Tyrion making the special saddle for him to ride; his moping through his chapters in Book 2 because he wishes he was riding instead; the symbolism of the glass candles representing dragon riders in the Citadel, where there are three black candles and one green candle; the French meaning of the name Bran being a flaming sword; and it would really only make sense for him to be widely considered as a candidate for king at the end, at least outside of the North, to rival other dragon riders if he was a victorious dragon rider too in the Great War.
Also loved GreyArea's videos for several years on Nettles being a child of the forest. Always thought that Leaf has to appear in disguise ealier in the story based on what she says in Bloodraven's cave. Also have always tended to the think that Summer sees a real dragon leaving Winterfell and wanted a good explanation for this. This theory perfectly weaves all of the that together! A Theory of Ice & Fire from Quora here, Jeff
The only reason I didn't go to Old Nan was because of her known family, but that itch was still there.
Maybe old nan was a real woman for a while, but at some point got kidnapped and had a CotF slip into her life. Kind of like how synths from fallout will insert themselves into the population
it could the witch lady from haranhall in house of the dragon. Based on how shes said to be a old bat already
Hi, just recently started watching your videos and I must say your theories' are a lot better than most. I like this theory of nan being Leaf, but I have seen this said a lot of time about nans' fingers while she is knitting, as a long time knitter you don't use all your fingers, especially on the needle you are working with it would probably be only the first 2 fingers. You could say that theory of it being Leaf with nan having her 3rd finger and pinky bound is the clue, but I wouldn't say the knitting, not unless she wasn't taught how to hold the needles.
Nettle Nan! I love it!
Oh very nice. You're on to us.
This theory is completely bonkers and I love it 👀
Damn this really is an interesting theory - well put! Now I've just quickly tossed an idea how Sheepstealer could be tied into the story later on. So I have a theory Bran is Night King. I don't want to go into much detail and I know many book readers hate the thought of NK even be a thing in the books but I believe GRRM just hasn't brought him on the stage yet. Anyway, during the battle for the dawn (show S8E3), Bran is observing the battle and at one point all seems hopeless and he decides to make a move - warg back in time to warn CotF to not create White Walkers at all. Just a silly logic a 10 year old Bran could have and think it could work. But he's been warging (observing the battle by warging) for so long that he 'drowns' and is stuck back in time. Back in that time period, he has a 'new life' and becomes the first Stark, builds Winterfell, raises the wall etc. and also of course warns CotF to not create WW. But they're smart enough to understand how time 'works' and at one point kidnap him and turn him into a WW - the Night King. Because that's what was always bound to happen. Anyway, since the young Bran at the cave found about Sheepstealer, he knows there's a dragon about, and later on long after he's been the Night King for thousands (?) of years and is in the ASoIaF present - he steals Sheepstealer by killing him and turning him into an ice dragon, which he then rides to destroy the wall and go down to Winterfell. That way the books have their ice dragon and that stupid plot from the show is not needed.
sick! I was waiting for this one.
bran is named for bran the blessed.
bran the blessed is a welsh mythic hero
the welsh are strongly associated with sheep
bran being ferried back to winterfell by sheepstealer fits perfectly.
I also really like the theory of Leaf being Nettles. It could make sense for her earliest years pretending to be human. If Damon, of all people, was the one to teach Leaf a lot (brushing her hair, how to dress, courtesies) that would be crazy.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i came from your elden ring cross over video and I'm screaming every time you say her three fingers. There's even a little blind old woman finger reader
Old Nan gets the best taxis