Diagnose Your Suspension Problems With FOX's Jordi Cortes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
- We've been joined by @FOXFACTORY Suspension guru Jordi Cortes for an in-depth chat about suspension, the common problems faced and what the most appropriate fixes could be! If you're not sure where to start when it comes to the dials on your forks, balancing your bike and when to make certain changes, then this advice from a World Cup Level Suspension Specialist will be right up your street.
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⏱️ Timestamps ⏱️
00:00 - Intro
00:25 - What Are The Common Problems/Fixes With Suspension?
03:59 - Suspension Sag Is Correct, Why Is My Fork Still Super Firm?
05:26 - What's The Most Common Suspension Set Up Mistake?
07:05 - What About Following What The Suspension Charts Recommend?
09:14 - How Best To Set Up A Balanced Bike?
10:01 - Does Suspension Need Changing With Bike Fit?
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A big thanks to Jordi for giving us his time at the Fox camp to shoot this video! We had a blast riding the latest gear and shooting some videos whilst we were at it. Stay tuned for Remi Gauvin's Rocky Mountain Altitude bike check featuring all of the latest suspension from Fox including the latest components from Raceface, dropping this Monday in time for the first EDR of the season!
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What suspension questions would you like answered? let us know👇
Why everyone says to newbies to open up compression?! Not this guy ...Yee
I've been setting my MTB suspension like dirtbikes; you usually want to have compression right on and appropriately matching the rebound, in other words you adjust rebound speed then compression, the two go in pairs, at your risk and perils 😂
@@LaurentiusTriarius because newbies don't ride fast enough for compression to work. Also, your matching scheme doesn't really make much sense: in reality you have energy going into the spring, then dissipating through rebound. With compression damping you slow down the initial transfer of energy, so 1) rebound doesn't need to work that hard (or even can't work hard enough) 2) it virtually stiffens up suspension, raising force at the handlebars. So it is indeed a measure for advanced riders.
When do you know you have to adjust your suspension? I started mountain biking last year and I rode a Commencal Meta TR V4 (Fox 34, Fox Float X2). It was set as per the recommended settings and I thought everything was perfect. This year, I'm riding a We Are One Arrival (Fox 36,Fox Float X). Again set up as per the recommended settings. For the short period I had the two bikes, the Meta TR suspension was so much harder than the Arrival. Now my Arrival feels perfect. But I'm starting to ride faster and gnarlier trails, so how do I know my suspension is not set correctly?
@@ben63197 My advice, is to make a note of what you have. Then
make changes and record the affect and the feel, comparing it to what you have. Give each setting some time. If you're making small changes, like 1 click rebound, it's fine. Make changes either side of your current settings, so that when you do revert to it, you can then better record the feel of your current setup.
But it can take a long time. And it's best to do this on the same trail, the type of trail you typically ride.
I have a question that may be basic, but crucial yet every time i search an answer i get different results: what position should I be in while measuring sag for fork and shock? Some say seated with seat down, some say standing riding position.
I love that he's actually telling it straight with no bs that you have to be 100% honest about what you have or have not done or else you will only be adding more problems to the equation.
Jordi is so awesome. Sad to hear there's no Dialed this year.
I've learned so so much from JC on "dialled", such a shame it's not being done this year.
Anna, he must have loved the great questions you asked, instead of the usual lame ones, and everyone will learn from his answers.
JC is the sort of guy you want to be sat next to on a plane, he has so much knowledge and delivers it in an easy to understand way.
Wow! Eleven minutes of hardline, honest, expert info, with some tough love in the mix. Humility has always been a welcome consequence of mountain biking!😅
LOVE that he started with service. Regular maintenance is absolutely key, ESPECIALLY the 50-hour service. Forks and shocks are precision-engineered mechanical products that demand regular service in order for them to run as intended. Just like a car engine, regular oil maintenance goes a long way. I know most people are either intimidated by servicing their own shocks and forks or are turned off by the cost of having them serviced regularly. My plan is to help people get over these humps. With a bit of confidence, I'm positive you can perform these tasks in order to fully enjoy your bikes without having to break the bank
I like that it wasn't just routine, fixed service intervals, but also about when it starts to not feel quite right
Not many places to get these forks serviced in my area . Most shops send them away . You need a lot of extra tools to overhaul forks . Some brands have no service agents at all . Fox being made in Taiwan worries me so I don't buy them .
@@robertmcfadyen9156 no special tools needed for a lower leg service, you can do this at home.
There are service shops available for all major brands “everywhere", regardless where the shock has been produced. (almost all come from Asia anyway, this is irrelevant for servicing though)
If you can bleed your brakes, you can handle a 50hr suspension service yourself. Makes all the difference! Will feel good as new!
^THIS^.. So much THIS. Lower service is not difficult. And you save a fortune doing it yourself
That was a great interview. Love it, THX
Yes. Start with service. We get used to slowly deteriorating kit.
Love the channel 👍
Great interview. Will watch before setting my bike
Good questions in this interview!
Excellent interview Anna!
Anna great interview,learned heaps of usefull tips.
Thanks for watching! Hopefully you can get your suspension dialled now
Love this - Great questions
Great video I love everything about suspensions. It would be great to see a video related to e bikes specific suspensions
Don’t ever lie to your suspension tech at your LBS or to the paramedic when you call 911 (999 for my British friends) lol.
Looks like you were riding the Eucalyptus Loop Trail in Santa Cruz, Anna! (My home trails) 😁👍
Good eyes! And good trail ;)
Awesome interview - what is the bracket process he was talking about?
I have a question. I'm curious about setting Rebound on a Grip 2 fork. Should you always start with the same one every time (e.g. Low vs Hi?). If so which one. Also should the other rebound be set to open while you're setting the first one?
Definitely something I need help with just now, and I wouldn't lie if gonna get my bike set up what's the point in that! I'm at full psi and still can't get in the 30% sag range it's starting to get on my nerves now! Paid thousands for an emtb and can't get out on it because the stupid suspension set up
Loved the vid! :)
I always wonder if you should set and test rebound with all the compression settings on fully soft or already on the recommended manufactor settings?
I'll start the process to finally setup my Lyrik fork properly soon and would go on like this:
Check and set sag if needed
Find Rebound settings
Find LSC settings
Find HSC settings
Any better ideas ? :)
It's usually best to set up the fork/shock to the factory recommended setting for your weight and work from there one click at a time. As Jordi says all the settings are connected so changing the compression will affect the rebound and vice versa! Hope this helps 🤙
I would have questions that would puzzle Jordi .
My issue is when i lock my suspension fork with the remote control on my handlebar and then want to unlock it again by releasing the remote control, the remote unit on the top of the fork does not return properly. I have to "help" it back with by twisting it with my fingers. How do I fix this? I have taken off the remote unit on the fork and noticed that the return spring in fork itself has a lot of resistance instead of running smoothly. Have not found any TH-cam videos on that....
Anna awesome interview and question to the legend that’s Jordi, I’m unfortunately a heavy rider, 6’2” and 239.68 pounds, I’m running an Orbea wild e-bike with a Fox factory 38, 170mm and a Fox factory X2 160mm, I’m hitting 290 psi in the rear, for the 30% sag, the bike shop that I bought the bike from, when asked if I would benefit from fitting volume spacers to the rear shock. They advised me not to, because it would hamper the shocks performance???
Not true on the volume spacers. My X2 is maxed out, you might have to have it re tuned. Mine came from factory for a Ripmo and it was a light tune. No matter what I did it blew through the travel. So the shim stack and valve tune was changed to a medium and it works perfectly for me. They make the bike for the majority of riders but it definitely doesn’t cover all.
@@michaelmann3636, thank you for that. I haven’t ridden my bike anywhere with seriously rough terrain to test the rear shock, ridden it on some normal light rough ground and it’s using just under half the travel, so not sure re getting it revalved . But at least I’ve got that as an option??
It's worth a try! You can always take them out and return it to how you had it before. You never know, if could be awesome! I'm on the opposite end of the weight spectrum, but i love spacers in my eBike as I find the bike blows through its travel way more than on my regular bike. There's nothing wrong with running 290psi either, if that's what you need. Just double check the sag with a ruler, and be sure to wear your usual riding kit too. Remember, if you have too little pressure (i.e. you're running sag higher than 30%) your suspension will actually feel less supple, as it's sitting in the mid-stroke (which will feel firmer than the initial part of the stroke), and you may actually need to add pressure to get it feeling supple again (which is often counter-intuitive to many people!). Best of luck :)
#AskGMBNtech What's the order of setting SAG? Rear or fork suspension first? Thanks in advance!
Great question, I have wondered this too.
I don't remember where I read it, but apparently you should start with the rear shock. If your rear shock's sag is too short, your weight will be biased to the front and you will be setting up too much air in the fork to make up for it.
How can you play with different air pressures without adjusting the rebound to go with it? Adding 10 psi means a click more, otherwise the bike’s going to buck which can muddy the water trying to determine whether the pressure is better or worse.
Likewise front to rear balance, making an adjustment at one end without matching the other side usually leads to an unbalanced bike which again can make it hard to tell whether the bike feels like shit because of the adjustment or the unbalance.
I have a question that may be basic, but crucial yet every time i search an answer i get different results: what position should I be in while measuring sag for fork and shock? Some say seated with seat down, some say standing riding position.
Search Sag GMBN Tech. There are a couple of videos that go over it.
Personally, I like to stand up in my normal "riding pose", as this way it will load the front and rear suspension in the same way your bike will be loaded when you ride it. If you were to sit down, you may not load the fork as much as you usually do when you ride it. Good luck!
Jordi is THE guru!
“Assume sag is set up correctly” I think that is where we go wrong. Lots of people do NOT have their sag set correctly.
I think a lot of people got baited by that one Pinkbike forum post where someone said "sag is inaccurate and unnecessary." It turned to be a giant Vorsprung marketing ad. Of course the stock Fox damper is gonna feel like shit, because people aren't setting sag to the manufacturer's recommendations.
I have a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION. What about if bike need service after being without use for too long?
absolutely, suspension seals might degrade
I've got one: I have Fox 36 Rhythm/Fox Float X and I'm using only about 2/3 of the travel. Sag is set at 20% front 30% rear and even though I'm not exactly light rider at ~85kg + gear. I run pressures lower than in the official charts. I'm a beginner so at first I thought I just don't ride trail gnarly enough to use the travel (mostly flowy blues) but recently I started riding dh and techy trails and it seems no matter what I do I don't use even close to full travel. Is it normal? How "accessible" should be the last centimeters of travel?
Check your volume spacers in you shock and fork. Maybe there is too many volume spacers in your fork and shock for your weight.
I have Fox 36 performance and Float X performance elite on my bike.
Honestly I dont like to use ALL the travel on my bike. I dont do big jumps but I like that "safety space" of travel where I dont bottom out my suspension. There is 2 reasons for that, 1st you dont destroy your shocks, 2nd your frame doesnt suffer.
👍
@@bitumen83 Yeah, basically what I thought. I get that I don't need to constantly use all my travel but I thought at least once in a while. But at the other hand I don't send it particularly hard yet. I just thought at my weight I'd rather have a problem with not enough spacers not the other way around.
20% sag in the front and 30% sag in the rear is causing the bike to be imbalanced. I would say go down to 25% in the rear if you're going to keep 20% sag in the front. Now you are on the lower end of the SAG setting for the fork so if you're not riding big hits or jumps maybe you should go up to 25% in the front. This way you will benefit from a little bit more compliance and feedback on the lower to moderate speed hits.
Whatever you set your side at a 10% Delta is too much unless you strictly a dh rider then that requires specific set up. But if you're just riding trails 20/30 is incorrect it doesn't matter what your weight is.
And by the way once you set your suspension up it's not once and done... it should be adjusted for each trail system or type of riding you're doing and make sure you're taking notes.
@@rider65 15-20% front and 25-30% rear is what Fox recommends and I wouldn't say the bike's imbalanced. Quite the contrary actually, I basically use the same amount of front/rear suspension, I just don't seem to be able to reach the end 1/3 of travel. How's reducing sag in the rear while increasing in the front going to help me here? I'd say it will cause exactly what you say I suffer from - bike imbalance. I'm certainly not adjusting my suspension separately for every different trail and Jordi here (10:31) basically says the same. I'm not a pro nor will I ever be, I doubt I'll ever get any benefit from micro adjusting my suspension. I just want to know if it's set up correctly and I'm making an issue out of nothing or do I need to play with volume spacers/pressure.
Did he mention too much grease in the fork during manyfacture.....
what a great and informative video. sadly my inner monk is wildly triggered by her not wearin kneepads :D :D
I never kew i was so controversial ;)
Let's goooooo Jordiiiii
The last sentence is awesome :D It's "horse and rider in perfect harmony" not "the horse is soley culpable" :)
Looks like GMBN is taking over dialed now…
We could never replace that. It was a great series I watched all the time.
So, I am 63 kilios, running a lyrick ultimate 160mm (the red one) on my bronson. I run all the compression open, and a trutune insert with just 5 clicks of rebound on, so pretty fast.. Without the insert I couldn't get the full use of my travel without greatly reducing pressure and causing a bow through scenario. For us light riders it can be really tricky to get an off the shelf product to work for us. A re tune is a good idea I think, but trying the trutune insert meant I didn't have to visit the shop just to try out a new tune. I'm not sure it is for everyone, but it worked for me. Also there is nothing like a newly serviced shock and fork, it gives you that new bike feeling on your old steed.
Bring back dialed
Now I know, why Loris Vergier got dropped out of Fox Suspension 😂
I have a super deluxe ultimate with meg neg on and was set with 2 tokens and 2bands, 2 clicks of Compression, 3 rebound with 28% sag which was great at the time but im now 95kg..ive adjusted air to set sag, adjusted compression and rebound a bit but the small bump sensitivity isnt as it was before, everything else feels fine should I add or remove a band?
Why the X2 fails so much
It is a real shame that Fox are no longer doing the Dialed series.
Indeed such a shame, do you know why?
I always wondered what Quinton Tarantino’s brother did for a living 😂
#ASKGMBNTECH Why is it easier for me to do very steep descents on my hardtail. On a full sus I’m being jarred back and fowards… 😬
Didn’t know George Clooney knew suspension so well
When will Jordie come to my house and help me set up my suspension? On Gmbn's dime of course 😂
I know that arguing with the expert makes me an idiot but I do not like my bike park suspension setup riding around my local trails. It just makes my bike feel soft and numb at the slower speeds that the ups and downs on my trails have versus the rough high speeds of a place like Snowshoe. I usually can get that set up pretty good but I never really liked my suspension setup locally turn it up usually just taking my heart tail out
Didn't Jordi cover your exact scenario when he said that as the trail flattens out your setup will change because how you're loading the bike changes?
I don’t know why people are always treating suspension like it’s rocket science
Jedi Cortes
What if you lift your bike up a foot and drop it? Can you tell if suspension is set up right by how much it bounces?...
Mine is set up so when fork and shock are open there is no bounce.
🤦♂️
It's not the best test, ride it down a trail and see how the bike feels! 🤘
🦧
In Copenhagen, Denmark a full service on an old Rockshox shock is 1850 DKK (£215). The parts can be bought for cheap so the hourly wage this scammers are charging makes it robbery in full daylight. The same place charges £35 to change a cassette.. I honestly don't trust bike mechanics more than I trust auto mechanics which is about 0%
Gosh Anna you sure run a soft fork. The trail doesn't look too mickey so why do you run so much travel?
Then, I also typically find chart recommendations are way off for me - much more so for the fork than for the shock. So I only use sag. And then after sag, feel.
One thing I notice is the lack of attention to rebound though. Not just for the specific bike suspension, but also for the terrain. Right from wrong can make a huge difference.
I didn't think it was soft or too much travel - it's a 140mm Fox 36 running 20% sag! lol. I think you'd be surpised how much travel you use on a decent. Most people don't get the benefit of a slo-mo camera following them though! haha. Reset your o-ring before you descend next time - I bet you use almost all of it.
Am I the only one that gets the impression he doesn't actually answer questions very well?
I had to resist the urge to say "Jordi, are you telling me there's no magic formula?!"... lol. But he's absolutely right, there is no magic formula. Bottom line is, if there's a problem, start bracketing on the dials. Annoying, but true. 😄
you mean he didn't give a secret formula that doesn't actually work or exist?
@@thedingomannah I know there’s no secret formula. Every bike is and person is different so there are many variables at play. I just kind of expected a bit more explanation into what each of the adjustments can have the ability to do.
@@jdemara I just think the reason is because his answers are already correct. The Fox user manuals are very detailed at what each adjustment does. Owners just tend to ignore the manual.
Some owners simply disobey the 20% maximum sag on the fork and go for 25 or 30%. Some would count the rebound clicks from open instead of closed. Some riders should really just be removing volume spacers instead of dropping air pressure and compromising sag.
What he's saying is people aren't very honest. "I've done everything already and my fork still feels like shit!", but when Jordi investigates the issue, it simply turns out they didn't.
Maybe he could have been more technical with the answers, like the reason for the 20% max fork sag is the position of the transfer port for the negative air chamber. That being said, this channel is already called GMBN Tech and there's still comments complaining that suspension shouldn't be complex. It looks like Jordi was trying his best to balance technical details and the impatience of the lay person.
@@jdemara well the dude basically said "make sure your basics are perfectly right first, then you can think about anything else" which is a really good advice to anyone except the professionals. I am assuming you are not a professional. I ain't either.
This video was absolutely no help at all, no mention of how to make the adjustments...
Bingo!
Rebound too slow? On the contrary I see most riders bounce around with forks too fast. Unless you bottom-out by the end of rock garden, your fork is not packing down.
It's really a situational analysis thing, if you consider most of these people bouncing around would probably think their suspension is not working right if they were properly setup 😅
@@LaurentiusTriarius or blame tyres for not gripping enough, yes. You'd be amazed how little self-reflection a regular person has. So little to none situational analysis happens on the trails. Listening to gurus on the internet, however......
Forgot how it's called, but basically there is a prevelant mistake when while digging in the weeds and focusing on specifics people neglect more basic things🤷♂
I agree, I’m 235 lbs so I have to run high pressures and really, really slow down the rebound or I’m bouncing like crazy…especially the rear.
Would’ve been better if he wore a shirt with the New California Republic from fallout
So people are liars and ingorant and when they f up completely a bike they bring it into a shop
The easiest way to avoid suspension problems... get a road bike.
That's the easiest way to become a tw*t
Road biking is like being castrated
You jumped straight to road biking?! Couldn't we get a rigid mtb first?? 😭
@@AnnaOnTheBike why inconvenience yourself with unnecessary weight. Get a 6.8kg bike and be happy for the rest of your life.
Interesting you talk about 15% to 20% front and 30% rear when Moto guys do no such thing...🤦♂️ that Delta causes an imbalance during load transfer. Very poor advice
#ASKGMBNTECH
@gmbntech
Fox has not made a new Fox 34 for the size 27.5 wheels. Should I now panic and sell my Santa Cruz 5010 in 27.5 wheels???