When I saw "FUNCTIONAL", I thought snail finally fixed this bug of targeting to center of ships's model (between masts). This bug acknowledged by snail and they said that they not gonna fix it for now. Maybe only when naval stuff will get to those BRs. (In like 3-5 years) You can still go to gaijin's "issues" portal and vote for it, just to show that there are people who actually care for cold war naval stuff.
I'd love to see an Exocet missile in the game. One of the most historically important guided munitions ever constructed and would make an enticing addition to the French tree for sim players.
I think if they actually made naval grind less cancer, rebalanced the brs for bluewater and coastal, and added more modern ships naval would be actually fun. Ima start tweakin the more they just add random battleships from 1918 and not actually progress the timeline of naval ships at all unlike planes and tanks. Gaijin maybe just.. give the naval players 1 major update of their own to fix naval for god sakes 😭
@@ajmod73 But there are still so many interesting and unique battleships and battlecruisers from WW1 era that are still missing. Those should absolutely be added ASAP before they get powercrept even more than they’ll be rn. Naval really does need a total overhaul, and not just new ships, to be truly fun and enticing, no doubt about that of course.
@@kkang2828 oh absolutely ww1 ships are cool af, just I think they are a bit out of place in the current br brackets. hopefully they will change planes brs in naval like they are gonna do for tanks (hopefully). Also would be nice to have a little squad of planes (for certain planes I don't want a squad of buccaneers lol) instead of 1. Would be cool if they added ww1 planes too? xd.
@@kkang2828 I wish also they could kinda slow down with newer and more modern stuff. There's still a ton of things they have missing for WWII-coldwar stuff
That's an overall guidance issue I'm trying to highlight. publish some evidence that it's actually stupid. I was hoping the sensor view would come with some refinements. But laser guided is still the best way
Cold War and on is the way for naval. Ground and Air all have totally modern stuff but for some reason we just get battleships. If we can get the brs decompressed modern naval with short range missiles will be fun as heck
Naval should be overhauled and polished within the current scope, and all the missing ships added, before trying to progress any further in terms of era. Not doing that will just create more mess and not actually fix much.
It would be nice if they would have made the martels more realistic. IRL they have a cruise altitude which they would climb to when you fire them from low alt which would minimize the seeker issue
The only anti ship missile that I have in the game is the ki 48 otsu with the ki 148 guided rocket I think it's one of the small amount vehicles you can use in naval realistic battles
@@CmdrTyraelIt's tricky to learn and I have been using it for a while so far it has been my main bomber for naval I found out that it can even destroy battleships if you aim for their magazine.
Excited to see if war thunder will have a cold war missile age naval combat update, especially when considering how many dedicated Anti-Ship aircraft WT already has that don't have their weapons and need to be used in the secondary ground attack roles all the time.
I’ve been spending a lot of time reading up on the A-6E (TRAM and SWIP) and I’m hoping it gets it’s updated targeting radar, air to ground radar, and it’s anti-ship weaponry I was hoping we would get the SWIP in alpha strike… guess not : (
I’ve been testing the Kormoran anti ship missile in customs (because it almost never hits a target directly). I found it to work best if you drop the kormoran from high altitude, 20k+ft (7000 ish meters). while facing either directly down at the target or high off the rear of the target. I shot 5 or so volleys (20 missiles) and recorded one kill per volley. Still not great, but at least i was able to see “target destroyed” a few times. 😂
It’s insane that they have aircraft with ASMs like this or the tornado, yet you can’t actually play them in regular matches because you can’t take them in naval with the BR structure
I agree. The only place you can fight ships in this way is SIM or very very rarely in ARB. The learning curve for sim means many players will never fire one in anger.
I've heard that it's due to Gaijin wanting to keep AA in GRB competitive. These sorts of weapons would greatly outrange them. Probably why we haven't seen SEAD missiles yet.
@@CmdrTyrael oh yeah for sure, I mean we've had similar stuff happen already with the AGM-12s on the FJ-4B which people would launch from the airfield and guide using the following camera, and in the 2077 event where the aircraft could dominate so much because it could operate outside of AA ranges.
I got a kill with the s2b using these martel missiles a few hours ago. Fired from about 15km out. My 2nd missile either lost tracking or an spaa shot the missile down maybe. I tried air rb but it was not good. Too slow and was just a sitting duck......or...well a flying duck.
If you have the patience to learn the Bucc's are fantastic to fly in sim. Beginner friendly and gentle in landing. The lowest tier one has a friendly BR where you rarely see enemies if you watch RWR and stay low and fast.
G'day Tyrael, Hm I wonder if & when seperate BR's for aviation are introduced that we might see these in high BR NF as purely AShM platforms for these could be interesting. Speaking of antishipping I do so wish the SS Goldenfels aka the AI german merchant ship was a playable ship but specifically in its Kriegsmarine configuration as the Auxiliary Merchant Cruiser Atlantis HSK2 as a 3.7 BR ship for it would be slow heavy & weak but absolutely devastating with its armament.
Can you use this in naval arcade? If I'm worried about naval with this. Alot of the highest ships are ww1 dreadnaughts or earlier. The only kind of modern one is USS Alaska.
I been trying alot more naval lately n missle. They just always seem to hit the stacks. No matter what. Nothing really seems to work. These do seem to be a bit of an upgrade. Or maybe it's just the mechanics that make it better. Unless you guide the munitions I find it always hits the stack n does no teak damage
In my experience the Walleye doesn't have enough punch. I would prefer to use 500lb or 1000lb bombs and lay as many as possible across the deck. Attack from directly ahead of the ship to avoid its fire arcs. like in this example with the A-4B th-cam.com/video/J2JqCoSG_w4/w-d-xo.html
please do a test of the new su25sm3's KH-38ML/MT missile on ships, i feel like espicially the MT variant will be very good for ship hunting with a large warhead and IR guidance
I will do. In my experience with SU-39 and its Laser guider missiles, that is the best guidance option for Anti-ship role. I'm excited to try a larger missile :)
@@CmdrTyrael iirc the Kh-38 have a smaller warhead than the Kh-29 but bigger than the Kh-25M. Also the Kh-38MT have the same problem as the Kh-29T, they don't track moving targets until 6ish km so it will miss a moving destroyer if you fire too far out.
the martels are a tragedy in the game, they lack their proper guidance method and are just a glorified maverick. Their guidance, called "man-in-loop" behaved like this: the missile is fired and will autopilot and loft with the "man" only having control over the altitude it should loft at in 200~m intervals, afterwards, the controller would be able to manually control it and be able to lock onto a target and the missile would then impact This allowed the missile to have 30~km range from sea level iirc. So irl its a remote controlled tv guided missile that has an automatic loft from launch that allows it to achieve insane ranges. In game its a glorofied maverick. I hate that gaijin simply didnt bother to model it but still have the gall to ask for 75 euro premiums.
To be fair to Gaijin, it's not that they didn't bother modelling the man-in-the-loop, but a conscious balancing choice so the missile cannot outrange SAMs in ground battles. Similarly, they have not implemented man-in-the-loop modes for Spike MR and ER missiles, even though it is one of that missile family's signature features. You will also note that most guided weapons (GBUs, LGBs, Mavericks, AS.30L, etc.) across the board have much shorter range than commonly reported.
Doesn't seem functional, ship bounding boxes still lead anti ship missiles to hit the mast and funnels instead of the hull, until they fix this ASMs are really gimped
It's functional if you launch the missile in the correct circumstances... the last half of the video shows this. Until it's fixed overall there is no real reason to get excited for more additions 😒
I played my first game just now...... I killed a scharhorst with Mutsu's 140mm SAP... Wtf did they do? The best armoured Japanese ship feels like a wet paper bag. Just use HE and delete most things.
@@CmdrTyrael tldr: HE, SAP do tons of dmg rn. It will either ignore ur armor and wipe out all ur crew, or it will create unfixable breach. Naval is basically Quake on water I guess. What matters now is how fast you can reload.
I want to play a S400 or Patriot in air RB for a few years with planes barred from naval and ground battles. Still wouldn't make up for the years of sky cheating.
The torpedo challenge sucks. There are so many torpedoes. Straight from spawn. Spawn in a crusier straight into a line of 5 with 10 more out there and then blown to bits with literally nothing you can do. Ffs
That is basically a radio controlled, rocket propelled bomb, only available if you completed the event. Martel is the first Air launched Anti ship missile for Britain with an automatic guidance system. That's also a tech tree weapon. That's I'm what I was alluding to, the Tornado IDS missile has issues.
Well, altitude is read in Feet as that's the most widely used unit of measurement. If i have velocity in knots, people lose their minds. I prefer km/h for velocity but can convert it all in my head on the fly.
@@CmdrTyrael I would assume that down under is similar to here in the UK, where we use both systems. Beer is sold in pints, cola/fizzy in ml, your height and weight are imperial, but the dimensions and weight of your car or home are in metric.
Which air launched AsH Missile are you talking about? Because the Kormoran on tornado IDS has issues with its guidance and targeting... The Russian aircraft have the same issue... its an overall war thunder bug (except the laser guided missiles)
@CmdrTyrael ive used the kormorans many times. They work great. Idk what you are on about. Maybe you think they're still the way they were when they were added but they are far from it. In the air assault gamemode people use them to fire and hit bombers.
Air assault Arcade for bomber hunting? Hardly my cup of tea. I've made several videos about the kormoran for sim anti shipping. They are broken.... from ghost targets on the radar to tracking invisible ships. Random lofting, random ditching. Being confused by other ships or simply exploding. For their intended purpose they are not usable in a realistic setting with no reloads. I haven't played them THIS patch and intend to do so again
@@CmdrTyrael ive used them in test drive for the last 3 major updates and have had almost no issues with tracking and hitting with those ships. Until gaijin actually gives a fuck about distinguishing world war 2 settings and post war settings, almost nothing guided will properly work against the shitty 2013 ww2 models
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When I saw "FUNCTIONAL", I thought snail finally fixed this bug of targeting to center of ships's model (between masts). This bug acknowledged by snail and they said that they not gonna fix it for now. Maybe only when naval stuff will get to those BRs. (In like 3-5 years) You can still go to gaijin's "issues" portal and vote for it, just to show that there are people who actually care for cold war naval stuff.
If you're reading this, please vote to fix!!
Can you give a link to where I can vote for it?
@@CmdrTyrael SUS
fr
Ah yes... gaijin isn't going to fix because the are busy making memes on yt
Still annoyed the one on the Tornado isnt that good
Hope the fix it someday
Now we have sensor view I'll revisit that aircraft and see where it's going wrong
I'd love to see an Exocet missile in the game. One of the most historically important guided munitions ever constructed and would make an enticing addition to the French tree for sim players.
As an exocet enjoyer myself.... I totally agree.
Harpoon, exocet and sea sparrow.... I want all of them.
expcet exocet exocet
Just waiting for Buccaneer vs some 1910 dreadnought battles😅
That sounds unfair..... the buccaneer needs a buff 🤣
This thing is actually useful in SB... I saw this thing destroying whole groups of ships all alone.
Ah if only we had modern ships to fight this aircraft at its proper br
I think if they actually made naval grind less cancer, rebalanced the brs for bluewater and coastal, and added more modern ships naval would be actually fun. Ima start tweakin the more they just add random battleships from 1918 and not actually progress the timeline of naval ships at all unlike planes and tanks. Gaijin maybe just.. give the naval players 1 major update of their own to fix naval for god sakes 😭
@@ajmod73 But there are still so many interesting and unique battleships and battlecruisers from WW1 era that are still missing. Those should absolutely be added ASAP before they get powercrept even more than they’ll be rn. Naval really does need a total overhaul, and not just new ships, to be truly fun and enticing, no doubt about that of course.
@@kkang2828 oh absolutely ww1 ships are cool af, just I think they are a bit out of place in the current br brackets. hopefully they will change planes brs in naval like they are gonna do for tanks (hopefully). Also would be nice to have a little squad of planes (for certain planes I don't want a squad of buccaneers lol) instead of 1. Would be cool if they added ww1 planes too? xd.
@@kkang2828 I wish also they could kinda slow down with newer and more modern stuff. There's still a ton of things they have missing for WWII-coldwar stuff
@@ajmod73 Yeah. Low & mid tier is where the real fun is at in all game modes, and there’s still a ton of vehicles of all types left to add there, too.
functional
i thought it won't be another missile that always fly through the smoke tubes
looks like I'm wrong again
That's an overall guidance issue I'm trying to highlight. publish some evidence that it's actually stupid.
I was hoping the sensor view would come with some refinements. But laser guided is still the best way
Cold War and on is the way for naval. Ground and Air all have totally modern stuff but for some reason we just get battleships. If we can get the brs decompressed modern naval with short range missiles will be fun as heck
But they can’t even get battleships to work. How do you expect them to make modern naval missile warfare work?
Naval should be overhauled and polished within the current scope, and all the missing ships added, before trying to progress any further in terms of era. Not doing that will just create more mess and not actually fix much.
It would be nice if they would have made the martels more realistic. IRL they have a cruise altitude which they would climb to when you fire them from low alt which would minimize the seeker issue
The only anti ship missile that I have in the game is the ki 48 otsu with the ki 148 guided rocket I think it's one of the small amount vehicles you can use in naval realistic battles
Hard to master but satisfying to land hits.
@@CmdrTyraelIt's tricky to learn and I have been using it for a while so far it has been my main bomber for naval I found out that it can even destroy battleships if you aim for their magazine.
I bound it to the mini thumb stick on my HOTAS. Increased my accuracy alot!
I use a xbox controller while flying and it makes guiding it way better
Excited to see if war thunder will have a cold war missile age naval combat update, especially when considering how many dedicated Anti-Ship aircraft WT already has that don't have their weapons and need to be used in the secondary ground attack roles all the time.
Cool, naval warfare is something else fr. Submarines, destroyers, maritime patrol aircraft, ewacs/awacs, jammers, electronic warfare, etc. It's pretty wild.
There is a lot of opportunity here. I hope we see something akin to a real naval air op
Being a French Main, well, my Anti-Ship Missile will be the Exocet, and since we already have the Super Etandard, I hope to see it soon!
I’ve been spending a lot of time reading up on the A-6E (TRAM and SWIP) and I’m hoping it gets it’s updated targeting radar, air to ground radar, and it’s anti-ship weaponry
I was hoping we would get the SWIP in alpha strike… guess not : (
I was hoping we would get the ARM version of the MANTEL as the first SEAD missile.
Sad thing is I'm pretty sure you can't use these planes in naval since it doesn't go that high in BR
Yeah you're right. The best aircraft currently available are things like the Kikka, F-84 and the F3-D2 at 7.0
In SB EC ships are a thing at almost every BR. Also its a one way trip if you want to use convectional stuff.
The tornado marine becomes even more useless lmao
Now, only if the super entendard had its anti ship missile 😂😂
I agree
I’ve been testing the Kormoran anti ship missile in customs (because it almost never hits a target directly). I found it to work best if you drop the kormoran from high altitude, 20k+ft (7000 ish meters). while facing either directly down at the target or high off the rear of the target. I shot 5 or so volleys (20 missiles) and recorded one kill per volley. Still not great, but at least i was able to see “target destroyed” a few times. 😂
Good on you for trying to find a method. It sucks that so many conditions have to be right, just to score meaningful hits.
Thanks for watching
It’s insane that they have aircraft with ASMs like this or the tornado, yet you can’t actually play them in regular matches because you can’t take them in naval with the BR structure
I agree. The only place you can fight ships in this way is SIM or very very rarely in ARB.
The learning curve for sim means many players will never fire one in anger.
Be interesting to see where skimming tactics like lobs and what min climbs for some locks are
I really wish these missiles got it's unique manual guidance style rather than guiding like a maverick for some reason
I've heard that it's due to Gaijin wanting to keep AA in GRB competitive. These sorts of weapons would greatly outrange them.
Probably why we haven't seen SEAD missiles yet.
@@CmdrTyrael oh yeah for sure, I mean we've had similar stuff happen already with the AGM-12s on the FJ-4B which people would launch from the airfield and guide using the following camera, and in the 2077 event where the aircraft could dominate so much because it could operate outside of AA ranges.
nice video as always man
My marine germany tornado was the first in the game to have anti ship missiles did we forget about that?
I spoke about the Komoran on the IDS repeatedly during the video.... comparing it to the Martel
Great use of the new replay feature
The replay feature is my new best friend, it makes everything look so much cooler!
VAMPIRE! VAMPIRE! VAMPIRE!
Brace for impact!
I got a kill with the s2b using these martel missiles a few hours ago. Fired from about 15km out. My 2nd missile either lost tracking or an spaa shot the missile down maybe.
I tried air rb but it was not good. Too slow and was just a sitting duck......or...well a flying duck.
If you have the patience to learn the Bucc's are fantastic to fly in sim. Beginner friendly and gentle in landing.
The lowest tier one has a friendly BR where you rarely see enemies if you watch RWR and stay low and fast.
be nice if they fixed this for air SB
@Kokoda144 I agree that BR is alot of fun and some of the maps suited for it.
G'day Tyrael,
Hm I wonder if & when seperate BR's for aviation are introduced that we might see these in high BR NF as purely AShM platforms for these could be interesting.
Speaking of antishipping I do so wish the SS Goldenfels aka the AI german merchant ship was a playable ship but specifically in its Kriegsmarine configuration as the Auxiliary Merchant Cruiser Atlantis HSK2 as a 3.7 BR ship for it would be slow heavy & weak but absolutely devastating with its armament.
Can you use this in naval arcade? If I'm worried about naval with this. Alot of the highest ships are ww1 dreadnaughts or earlier. The only kind of modern one is USS Alaska.
The battle rating is too high to use in naval, the only place it will get a real chance to fight ships is Air sim or custom battles.
@CmdrTyrael ah good, that's ok then. Thanks! I was concerned I was going to have to try to manually shoot it down with oerlikons.
don't give them ideas XD
I been trying alot more naval lately n missle. They just always seem to hit the stacks. No matter what. Nothing really seems to work. These do seem to be a bit of an upgrade. Or maybe it's just the mechanics that make it better. Unless you guide the munitions I find it always hits the stack n does no teak damage
Is it a good idea to use AGM-62A Walleye I against Carriers?
In my experience the Walleye doesn't have enough punch. I would prefer to use 500lb or 1000lb bombs and lay as many as possible across the deck. Attack from directly ahead of the ship to avoid its fire arcs.
like in this example with the A-4B
th-cam.com/video/J2JqCoSG_w4/w-d-xo.html
please do a test of the new su25sm3's KH-38ML/MT missile on ships, i feel like espicially the MT variant will be very good for ship hunting with a large warhead and IR guidance
I will do. In my experience with SU-39 and its Laser guider missiles, that is the best guidance option for Anti-ship role.
I'm excited to try a larger missile :)
@@CmdrTyrael iirc the Kh-38 have a smaller warhead than the Kh-29 but bigger than the Kh-25M.
Also the Kh-38MT have the same problem as the Kh-29T, they don't track moving targets until 6ish km so it will miss a moving destroyer if you fire too far out.
>adds anti ship missiles
>cant use the vehicle with them in naval battles
thankyou gaijin very cool
Have you tried the buccaneer's anti ship missile?
@alt8620 lol that's what the video is about 💀
Thanx nerd
nerd medal recipients
🏅=Ty
🥈= @Tugbobo02
🥉= @Lance425
@@CmdrTyrael Lance said he was happy with Bronze
that 2.7 anti ship cruise missile : haha
the martels are a tragedy in the game, they lack their proper guidance method and are just a glorified maverick.
Their guidance, called "man-in-loop" behaved like this: the missile is fired and will autopilot and loft with the "man" only having control over the altitude it should loft at in 200~m intervals, afterwards, the controller would be able to manually control it and be able to lock onto a target and the missile would then impact
This allowed the missile to have 30~km range from sea level iirc.
So irl its a remote controlled tv guided missile that has an automatic loft from launch that allows it to achieve insane ranges. In game its a glorofied maverick.
I hate that gaijin simply didnt bother to model it but still have the gall to ask for 75 euro premiums.
To be fair to Gaijin, it's not that they didn't bother modelling the man-in-the-loop, but a conscious balancing choice so the missile cannot outrange SAMs in ground battles. Similarly, they have not implemented man-in-the-loop modes for Spike MR and ER missiles, even though it is one of that missile family's signature features.
You will also note that most guided weapons (GBUs, LGBs, Mavericks, AS.30L, etc.) across the board have much shorter range than commonly reported.
Doesn't seem functional, ship bounding boxes still lead anti ship missiles to hit the mast and funnels instead of the hull, until they fix this ASMs are really gimped
It's functional if you launch the missile in the correct circumstances... the last half of the video shows this.
Until it's fixed overall there is no real reason to get excited for more additions 😒
What do you think abt the new HE/SAP damage calculation system?
I played my first game just now...... I killed a scharhorst with Mutsu's 140mm SAP...
Wtf did they do? The best armoured Japanese ship feels like a wet paper bag.
Just use HE and delete most things.
@@CmdrTyrael tldr: HE, SAP do tons of dmg rn. It will either ignore ur armor and wipe out all ur crew, or it will create unfixable breach. Naval is basically Quake on water I guess. What matters now is how fast you can reload.
@@RYHo-ni4my don't be seen and fight like a sod ☠️
@@CmdrTyrael Thats basically what I do. Camp behind mountain and spam HEs. I guess its WOWS all along
I want to play a S400 or Patriot in air RB for a few years with planes barred from naval and ground battles. Still wouldn't make up for the years of sky cheating.
NGL i would love to play an S-400 or Patriot
Would settle for Phalanx, a Bradley fitted for SHORAD or a TOR as a compromise
what the hell was that sound at 05:50 ?
That was a voice saying "scorched earth" from the track that was playing.
What is it that you get to move around with mouse after locking onto a target? Like at 3:52
Is there a purpose for it? or does it just exist?
That's the target pointer for the weapon
Unfortunately modern ship are too nerfed for face modern jet
If they make aa able to shoot at asm thay would be
if i hear the word "nukular" and not "nuclear" one more time I will go insane
Cope. It's regional vernacular where I'm from. Hard to erase ☠️
@@CmdrTyrael It's really not that hard lol
50% of the time I get it right.. the other half I revert to bogan.
still didnt show the manual guidance
It can't be manually aimed I tried all the usual methods
The torpedo challenge sucks. There are so many torpedoes. Straight from spawn. Spawn in a crusier straight into a line of 5 with 10 more out there and then blown to bits with literally nothing you can do. Ffs
That's typically low IQ Arcade play, a reason why i don't play Arcade.
The event may have inspired the same actions in RB
functional? ok so what is the ki-48-II otsu's missile then? a rock that you skip off peoples bows?
That is basically a radio controlled, rocket propelled bomb, only available if you completed the event.
Martel is the first Air launched Anti ship missile for Britain with an automatic guidance system. That's also a tech tree weapon.
That's I'm what I was alluding to, the Tornado IDS missile has issues.
@@CmdrTyrael you can also just buy the ki-48-II otsu for like, 3 dollars... really nobody cared about it that much.
Ah yes. An anti ship missile you cant bring into naval
I do most of my anti shipping in air sim mode.
600 likes
ship misssiles still are so bad use fritz instead
can't use the fritz in a 9.0+ sim battle and hope to survive.
@@CmdrTyrael I am using tram with 2000lb gbus its not that effective but it makes the job done
i dont get it why you use km/h for velocity and Feet for atitude at the same time, why not stick to metric for both or imperial for both?
Well, altitude is read in Feet as that's the most widely used unit of measurement.
If i have velocity in knots, people lose their minds. I prefer km/h for velocity but can convert it all in my head on the fly.
@@CmdrTyrael I would assume that down under is similar to here in the UK, where we use both systems. Beer is sold in pints, cola/fizzy in ml, your height and weight are imperial, but the dimensions and weight of your car or home are in metric.
Yeah thats right! We're taught it all in school and are comfortable with both systems.
It's hardly a day stopper like it is in some countries...
Wdym finally. The AS missiles work great
Which air launched AsH Missile are you talking about? Because the Kormoran on tornado IDS has issues with its guidance and targeting...
The Russian aircraft have the same issue... its an overall war thunder bug (except the laser guided missiles)
@CmdrTyrael ive used the kormorans many times. They work great. Idk what you are on about. Maybe you think they're still the way they were when they were added but they are far from it. In the air assault gamemode people use them to fire and hit bombers.
Air assault Arcade for bomber hunting? Hardly my cup of tea.
I've made several videos about the kormoran for sim anti shipping. They are broken.... from ghost targets on the radar to tracking invisible ships.
Random lofting, random ditching. Being confused by other ships or simply exploding.
For their intended purpose they are not usable in a realistic setting with no reloads.
I haven't played them THIS patch and intend to do so again
@@CmdrTyrael ive used them in test drive for the last 3 major updates and have had almost no issues with tracking and hitting with those ships. Until gaijin actually gives a fuck about distinguishing world war 2 settings and post war settings, almost nothing guided will properly work against the shitty 2013 ww2 models
unfortunately test drive does not reflect their performance in the live server :(