She's a much better Phantom Thief than any of the Phantom Thieves because her actions have an immediate effect. Nevermind "changing hearts" when you can simply rip a person's heart out and show him his beating heart as he returns to the Hunter's Dream or (perhaps) goes straight to hell where he belongs.
@@theonewhoismany8072 you do realise that he usually credits the people and if not mentions it in the comments or description, or the person does not want to be named, or he doesn’t know who made it, or everyone who watches souls borne should know
Vaati actually said quite some time ago that the reason why he never made the Prepare to Cry on her is Mitch L‘s video.. he said that Mitch‘s video is so good that he himself would have nothing else to add and it would just be a rip-off if he‘d do it
I just realized this but, when Gehrman is killed he says: "The night, and dream, were long..." while raising his right arm to the sky, falling to his knee, and then falling down with his arm still raised. Maria dies the same way.
Lady Maria’s whole story in general is very sad in itself. She was one of the first hunters, learning under Gehrman himself. Despite being of Cainhurst lineage, she shunned her blood magic powers and trained and became one of the greatest hunters to have ever lived by honing her technique with her Rakuyo. Then one fateful day, her and Gerhman went to the Fishing Hamlet, discovered Kos, and eventually massacred the whole village to uncover its secrets to return to Brygenwerth; including the unborn child of Kos. This led to Willem learning about the existence of the Great Ones, thus starting all the events of the game. Maria felt so disgusted in her role in all of this that she threw her beloved sword into the lake, wishing to be free of the cycle of violence and her role in all of this. She tried to do good, and help and comfort the patients experimented on by the Church, becoming the only comfort in their wretched existence. But despite how hard she tried, she couldn’t help them. And eventually, she couldn’t outrun her guilt and the suffering around her, and she took her own life. Then she became trapped in the Hunter’s Nightmare, forced to wear her Hunter Garb and wield her sword for all eternity, standing watch over the Fishing Hamlet next to the Research Hall filled with patients she couldn’t help, both her greatest sources of shame. When she finds you, she doesn’t even hate you, the only reason she fights you is because she’s so ashamed of what happened at the Fishing Hamlet and so frightened of what’s in there, that she tries to make you give up looking. She knows you’ll just return to the dream and then come back if she kills you, so she tries desperately to stop you, even delving into the blood magic she rejected for all her life just to stop you. It’s a really sad story and killing her here could easily be interpreted as you freeing her from the eternal torment of the Nightmare, having to stand watch over your greatest source of shame forever.
This is the best. I was so disappointed that Vaati never did a Prepare to Cry for Maria, and just in the general lack of TH-cam content on her. She's my favorite character in all of Soulsborne, and yeah. She's a cutie.
IKR, She's even in the cover of the DLC so you would expect people direct some attention to her, at least I did... Ludwig story is also important but most things about him are pretty clear and established.
I'm still waiting for Vaati to do that video. He said he was doing a Prepare to Cry for her like forever ago in a video. It'll probably never be released, but I'll be waiting.
Vaati should call most of his videos Prepare to Plagiarize. The truth will come out one day. Made a YT career off stealing other people's theories from every source imaginable, and hiding it in his fake, ultra sincere British voice of oh so innocent and kind. It's all complete bullshit. It's ok, there's a lot of us out there who know the truth. Challenge him on this claim whatsoever, and not will he only refuse to address it, he will delete your comment and make your posts invisible to others.
14:12 I wouldn't say lady Maria using her blood was her giving in to her nature, but more out of desperation in an attempt to keep you, the player from realizing the secret.
I feel bad for Gehrman and Maria. The more we know about their stories, the more we see that they were actually trying to protect us, and that in a sense makes them beautiful. Doesn't make me feel like less of a badass when I beat the shit out of them though/
I prefer a Maria centric movie. From the beginning of her career, dealing with prejudice of her ancestry, proving herself, going to the village, arguing with Gehrmin about what they must do to the villagers, see in horror as Gehrmin starts dissecting the villagers and finally fighting Kos and taking her child. Then the story show her downward spiral as she trying and keep failing in healing infected people and the movie ended with her killing herself. Yay tragedy!
My moms name was Maria, and she died 5 years ago to cancer. It was the exact same kind of life as Lady Marias. She tried so hard to protect me from the dangers of the world, even when I was not emotionally there for her. She held out for so long in this life hoping that I would be ready to face the world on my own, and I imagine her death was just as liberating. Lady Maria is the hardest boss period for me. I can't help but remember my mom whenever I face her. Most emotional moment in my life ever. RIP Ave Maria. I love you mom.
That was so touching and sweet, reminded me of my own beloved angelic late mother whose name is Mona (kind of similar to Maria, right)… my late mother treated me and behaved with me same as your own mother - that’s pure and true love not to be found in our lives or in this world again… may our mothers both Rest In Peace and may their souls be in heaven, amen 🙏🏽
@@Fiery_Latina_Goatchan_GF_681 Dance part comes from the Violin music of the first phase mixed with her being a hunter. Most bossfights are just Giant abominations that oneshot you if you miss a dodge. Lady Maria Bossfight is extremely fun if you have the old hunter bone and don't parry cheese her. Fighting against Maria basically becomes the two of you dashing in and out of existance to clash blades as the lovely violin plays in the background, That is the Dance aspect of this bossfight.
I wish I had that much elegance in my duel with her. My fighting style consisted of stepping away and waiting for an opening to parry, about 80% of the fight
Oh man was I surprised when I saw my own painting in my recommended videos, I feel kind of embarassed that it's out for everyone to see like that, but thanks for picking it! Naturally I was curious and watched your content and I have to say it's the best Lady Maria video I've come across, you've got yourself a new subscriber!
Hey, thank you! I think I may have forgotten to give you credit for the artwork... If you'd like, give me a link that I can add to the description so people can enjoy your work :)
I don't really mind at all, if anything I'm flattered it's getting used! It was just kinda weird seeing it here, I was thinking "hey this looks oddly familiar, wait what?" haha! Funny thing is, I was actually taking a break from working on a doll painting! I've been replaying the game recently and kinda had an urge to paint something Bloodborne related lol. Anyway here's the link to the image: de-capo.deviantart.com/art/Lady-Maria-589250405 although I don't really use that dA account too much and I don't have any other galleries.
When I saw Maria for the first time, I thought immediately of how Gehrman must’ve grieved the loss of a daughter figure. Him, being a sentimental old man, must’ve crafted the Doll to act as a Maria stand-in.
Exceptional video, Mitch. Maria's always a favorite, hitting that sweet spot where appearance, lore, backstory, music, and fight quality merge together, and I think you really did her justice here. When you say that you think that what might have been taken from the Hamlet for study at Bergenwerth might have been the unborn child of Kos I think you are very likely correct. As seen in JSF's video "Attempting to listen to the Baneful Chants," the background chanting in the Hamlet specifically states, "Mother is dead, her baby taken." (As a side note, I'd also suggest his "Bloodborne Up Close Episode 07," which includes some really fascinating speculation on Maria's life and death, her presence in the Nightmare, and the way various elements of the dream-worlds, including the Doll and the Winter Lanterns, and to a certain extent the Research Hall itself manifest as aspects or elements of Maria's life and personality.) (This is also one reason why I believe that the Orphan that we fight in the Nightmare is the manifestation of the curse on Gehrman; his--Gerhman's--body cannot be taken because it is already leashed to the will of the Moon Presence but his sleeping mind can be tied directly to the pain and suffering that he inflicted in life.) One thing I can't help wondering about Maria, though, is whether or not she actually appreciates her own liberation. What I mean by this is, her place in the Astral Clocktower is specifically standing between any newcomers and the Fishing Hamlet. If we believe that the Hamlet is the real-world Hamlet taken into the Dream a la the Lecture Hall, that's one thing--in this case, she's protecting Kos and the villagers from further defilement. On the other hand, if we see the Nightmare Hamlet not as the village itself but rather the manifestation of the curse, created by the will of Kos ("In his house at R'yleh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming" being one of the most well-known quotations from Lovecraft, so I would suggest that in that vein the mere fast that Kos is dead doesn't necessarily mean her power is. After all, _something_ had to answer the laments of the villagers to create the Nightmare.), then Maria is actually perpetuating the curse. Unlike Brador, she doesn't seem to have the "keep the Church's name clean" motivation, so it's entirely possible to me that she is seeking atonement for her own sins by keeping the curse intact to punish her fellow guilty hunters. Of course, it's also possible that she simultaneously sees it as her duty and also appreciates her freedom. (I've always wondered about the Doll's line...is she speaking on Maria's behalf, or for her own? Does she speak of Maria's freedom from the Nightmare, of her own freedom from Maria? Or perhaps both? Hmmm....)
Thanks for your feedback! I need to go have a look at Aegon and JSF's thoughts on this topic as I kept myself away from those videos while I made this one.
"A corpse... Should be left well alone." - Lady Maria. It's sad that she acknowledges the fact she's already been dead, but she still chooses to stay in the Old Hunter's Nightmare to ward off any hunter foolish to reach the Fishing Hamlet and find Kos. A spirit already in peace, but still chose to stay as the guarding huntress of the clock tower.
I think there is magic of a sort in the Bloodborne universe, but it's more along the lines of the old fashioned magic where one petitioned and relied on powerful forces. Various enemies use powers which are like sorcery, and the fact you can't learn them in part is what makes the game kinda scary. Compared with the Souls games, when you see an enemy use magic you can be pretty sure you can use similar powers, but in Bloodborne they are overwhelmingly alien abilities beyond the ken of mankind. The quicksilver bullets, infused with one's own blood, are a kind of magic in their ability to harm foes when conventional arms fail. Look at the hunter tools with their supernatural effects, there's definitely something occult about how they use blood to fuel their power. Then there's the Arcane stat itself. I definitely think there is magic, but instead of being an all powerful master of the elements, the player as well as most other characters are looking at shadows on the cave wall with only the faint inkling of what they really are. That all said, great video, definitely puts the human aspect of what happened in the past in better perspective.
@@Mondy667 The Great Ones can only be seen in the Dream Dimension or in this case, the Hunter's Nightmare. There is a lot of horrors as wide as the eyes of the mind can see.
Since great ones are "sympathetic" in nature and often answer when called upon, the hunter's nightmare is just what if a great one was called upon in anger or desperation. Though often enough, calling upon a great one is always a "be careful what you wish for" scenario.
Where does it say that Maria is trapped? Lore states that she CHOSE to stay, in order to prevent CURIOUS hunters from finding out about Fishing Hamlet.
Bree_ When the Doll says that she feels that a "heavy shackle" has been lifted from within her after killing Maria, I interpreted from that that Maria was being held against her will, to a degree, and was waiting for someone to best her. Perhaps she knew that whoever could beat her would be capable of doing the right thing with the spirit of Kos. You're free to interpret it however you like though, obviously.
Ah okay, well I thought that just meant she's glad she doesn't have to protect the Fishing Hamlet anymore. Because I felt that was her shackle, though she chose to stay.
@False Feathers Shackles can be self-inflicted, but you're ignoring the context of the Hunter's Nightmare; Its basically a hell for Hunters. The item that allows access into the DLC tells us that Hunters drunk on blood end up there. Look at the other hunters we see trapped in the nightmare, do Ludwig and Laurence look like they want to be there? In the cutscene before the player fights Laurence you can see him holding his head and screaming as if in pain. And Ludwig is transformed into a horse like monstrosity that has no wits until he sees his sword. Last but not least, everything we see in the Nightmare has already happened in the real world.The secret she's guarding happened long in the past. I think she killed herself out of guilt in the "real world" (evident by the blood you see around her chair when you first encounter her) and then after her death she was sent to the Hunter's Nightmare where guarding her greatest shame became her own personal hell.
@@randomthepleb4364no he didn't. the creator originally wanted to make lady maria an optional boss of which if you chose to not kill her Simon will kill her. but it's been established someone like Simon who is barely even known and just a harrowed hunter like many isn't strong enough and it would make no sense so the content were not used. Simon gets killed by the deer boi he ain't killing an old hunter like Maria or Ludwig.
Oh man, yet another tragic figure. BB seems to be full of them. One small thing I disagree on though, I don't believe that Gehrman and Maria massacred the whole Fishing Hamlet alone. I think they were sent out by Byrgenwerth as sort of scouts first to check out the area and see if the rumors were true. After that they went back to Byrgenwerth to give report and then they travelled back to the Hamlet with a bunch of hunters at their side massacring everyone (maybe Willem, Laurence and a bunch of Byrgenwerth scholars and professors came along as well, I mean they'd surely wanna see a real Great one with their own eyes). Of course Willem and Laurence then didn't take part in the massacre, they let the hunters do the dirty work.
That's possible as well. In my head I imagine that perhaps M&G/Byrgenwerth scholars may have been welcomed as visitors initially, and it was only once M&G were given the order to steal something did things become violent. Laurence is another character I've got an itch to do a video about, since really, in the end a lot of stuff comes back to him.
Maybe the villagers defended the old one, and were cut down as a result. I think the searching for eyes in the skull could have been done by other scholars, that's grunt work. And Gehrman got the orphan.
Certain since hunters must've not been allowed to act by their own, even if their mission were to find the eyes *in the case that they have engaged in contact with the great one*, it's more appealing and in character to think that the scholars would've wanted to presence the discovery by their own
Simon asks you to kill Maria because he understands being trapped in the Nightmare as well. Thank you for this amazing interpretation. I agree with it for the most part.
This is frankly, one of the /BEST/ and well put together Lore videos that I’ve seen. I’m a huge fan of Vaatividya and others, stumbling across this though, you are a gem. Wonderful editing and pacing, thank you! And... Subscribed!!! ❤️👍
You mentioned that those whose eyes are covered could perhaps be something like a preventative measure to stray from the nightmare. I would say this is possible but not much effective since Vicar Amelia ends up there despite having her eyes covered in the waking world. At least it’s heavily implied she is.
Never had a chance to actually play the game. I don't have the time unfortunately. But I've always loved Maria, she's like the embodiment of willful ignorance. She wanted to help people obviously, but she slowly realized her mistakes. She came from a long family of death and power and tried to escape that. Unfortunately she followed them in their bloody footsteps Also I can't help but admit I'm super gay for her voice
Thank you so much of this analysis! I wanted to do some voice acting for her on my channel, but was woefully unaware of how little dialogue she has. This gave me EVERYTHING and MORE of what I now know what to do to give her character justice.
Bloodbourne is my favourite souls game but it really felt like cainhurst was not finished. Seems like the team rushed to release it than polish the cainhurst story
I enjoyed watching this and I'm happy that this video was recommended for me. She's my favourite character, too. I had the same theory that she didn't want another hunter to make her same mistakes and that her eventual death was her release. Good video and I loved how you made a Maria for this.
Wow, this is amazing! I loved every detail so I have a hard time saying what I liked best! The presentation, the points you brought up, ugh I can't get enough. I can't wait for a Doll video, as she is one of the greatest Bloodborne mysteries! But goddamn this was awesome! I shivered when you said she let go, and I've gotta say that this is the best version of Maria's story I've ever heard told!
Probably my favourite soulsborne boss. There’s other fights I think are mechanically better, but the top of the clock tower is just so atmospheric, the music is great, and Maria’s character design just looks so cool in that setting. The feeling I got during that fight and walking up to the clock afterwards was amazing.
I wonder if she gave up healing the patients in the lab because when they had their brain fluid, they kept talking about THE SEA. (Where the curse began.)
An idea occurs to me, that might be disproved in the game lore, what if Maria didn't know she was a vileblood? Say Ludwig for example visted Cainhurst whe she was very young and sensed or noticed that she would be a great warrior so he kidnapped her and entrused her to Ghaiman for training. She didn't know about her inate abilities until you start beating her which maybe never happened before which caused her to instinctively activate her cainhurst ability. Just an idea that popped into my head.
A bit late but doesn't it say she prefers the rakuyo over blood blades as it requires dexterity? So she would have to know how to use blood blades even before her death
Dude you do deep into that, she has to be one of the most interesting characters in the lore behind her is great. So much insight as to why the dream and the nightmare exist cohesively
Bravo! I've gotta say - i lack the patience and inquisitiveness it takes to compile information to this degree - it's safe to say that Vaati has become the base of lore when it comes to soulsbourne games for the longest of time. I don't always agree with him however and thus i am over the moon (shallow pun was intended, alas it is Halloween tonight🎃) upon coming across this channel! Bravo these are some very high quality videos you created here - I feel this channel deserves many more followers! Here's to another 30k and then some! stay safe during these nightmarish times
I am curious. Since people connect Maria to the Doll, and Doll to the Winter lanterns. Could it actualy be ,that W.lanterns are nightmarish version of Maria. Here is why i feel that way, in old hunter workshop ,you find attire that resembles Dolls, it says its a spare attire. It might be Marias spare attire, since she is a royalty in a way. And the big blobheads in clinic cause you to frenzy, just like lanters. Just think about it. It might actualy be Gehrmans memory of Maria being their caretaker. And then it all gets distorted in nightmare (just like birds and dogs switch heads).
Just wanted to say that i appreciate this alot, Mitch. Always a pleasure seeing pockets of people who are deeply invested in lores like this. Gotta love your choice of background music too! I love shutter island. Thanks again for this. Bloodborne will be a game to remember for sure.
I needed a break from the madness of the Persona fandom fighting and trolling about their "waifus" and I found solace among those who play Bloodborne and NiER Automata. Lady Maria has become one of my favorite characters of all time. Her lore, her theme, her design, and her fighting style are all fantastic. I really wish that she was as popular as the likes of Yorha 2B or any of the Phantom Thieves. Perhaps it's for the better. Her obscurity makes her a treasure that, only those of us with great insight and the courage to enter the nightmare, can truly appreciate. May you all find your way home, my fellow Hunters. Farewell.
The child of Kos taken could be Ebrietas. After all, she's the Daughter of the Cosmos. "Kos" seems to be an alternative version of "Cosmos", and Micolash famously said "Kos. Or some say, "Kosm(os)".
You know I've been waiting for this video. Great job as usual, finally someone with a solid grasp on the timeline, THANK KOS! But lemme point out a few things because I'm an annoying person: - Your theories are solid enough for you to walk on your own legs, Mitch :) there's really no need to keep referencing the Paleblood Hunt every 5 seconds. Don't get me wrong, I love Redgrave's stuff even if I don't agree with a lot of his theories. I just think that his ideas influenced the way the community looks at some aspects of the game a bit too much. - I am sincerely surprised that you didn't point out that Maria's presence among the Byrgenwerth Hunters is one of the biggest clues towards Laurence being the scholar who brought the Old Blood to Cainhurst. As you said, Laurence and Willem had Gehrman on their payroll, after all. And yes, yes I know that your point is that Cainhurst is waaay older than the Church and the college itself but I still find Maria's presence in Gehrman's team an anomaly that only Laurence's secret meddlings with Cainhurst could explain. Unless you believe that Gehrman was a Cainhurst guy himself, of course. I personally dismiss that theory since I totally headcanon him as the third loyal servant of Willem, alongside Dores and the Gatekeeper. - Whatever the scholars (them, not the hunters. Maria threw her weapon away the very moment she realized what they had done. I doubt she took the time to vivisect anyone before going "oh well, this is fucked up. I'm out." but perhaps it's just me :P ) took from Kos, being it an umbilical cord or the Orphan himself, that was most likely used in experiments that led to Rom's ascension. Which ties the Fishing Hamlet directly to the Mensis ritual. And MP, and the Dream, and Mergo. And practically everything else. Gods, I could write an essay about Rom. She's the true waifu. - You sound a bit like Vaati at times. You're scaring me Mitch :P
Glad to have helped, I know you were a fan of this character so I'm happy that I did her justice. -That's understandable. I guess going into a topic that I wasn't 100% sure about in every respect made me want to hold onto a source that I trusted like training wheels on a bicycle. -Honestly, I left any mention of that out just because I'm still unsure. I have a feeling that whoever brought the blood to Cainhurst understood the gravity of the action they were taking and most likely lived out the rest of their days their, so I'm not sure if it could be Laurence, but your theory that it was could be true as well. -I agree, there's a lot more to talk about on the front of Byrgenwerth's experiments. Even though Byrgenwerth appears as the more "rational" group in comparison to the Healing Church, they both have their problems, to say the least. Mensis may be a video to do in the future. -I fear... the sweet lore... it sings to me, it's enough to make a man sick...
She fights the player because she still respect the hunters, and wants to hide their shameful secret. When she decides to use her blood, it’s because she values her companions’ honor over her own.
magic most certainly exists in bloodborne, and it is *everywhere*. saying that it doesnt is kinda weird when theres a stat literally called arcane, as well as arcane damage, what is obviously spells cast by enemies, the magic of the great ones and the existence of nightmares, etc.
Today I thought to my self: What if the words Maria spoke to the player, were actually the last monologue before she suicided? Maybe she was convincing herself with stuff like "only an honest death will cure you know" and "liberate you from your wild curiosity". She couldn't take the massacre in the fishing hamlet, which was partially caused because of her "wild curiosity" and the suicide would "liberate" her from the guilt and maybe even a bit of PTSD. The first thing she says "A corpse should be left alone" is maybe her recognizing her mistake. So she actually does not only want to protect the discovery of the fishing hamlet, but maybe she wants to protect the Hunter too.. Damn this game is soo deep i love it (That was my first theory so sorry if there are things that don't work :D)
Another excellent video! I learned so much from it. I always thought that just being in the presence of Kos transformed them, but the parasites make more sense. I thought they were always just put out there so the weapon would make sense. Keep up the good work, I look forward to any future Bloodborne videos you have.
One of my favorite Bloodborne characters. Awesome video as always, Mitch. The ending was superb, by the way, made me feel so many emotions. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, in depth theories on bloodborne. I feel like it isn't as robust in the YT community as is dark souls. This was the ultimate git Gud fight in souls for me.
Fantastic video, per usual. Also, I wanted to extend my compliments in regards to how dutiful you are in giving Redgrave credit when appropriate. Also, I think it might be instructive to consider the possibility that the Lady Maria you fight in the Hunter's Nightmare is only one "part" of the original, living Lady Maria. She basically embodies the angry, violent portion of herself, reflected by the fact that she is garbed as she, no doubt, dressed as a hunter. Likewise, I believe the Doll in the Hunter's Dream is representative of the time she spent at the research hall. As you stated in the video, there is definitely a connection between her and the Doll, and the Doll's personality seems to be a reflection of her (general) demeanor at that time too, at least in terms of how the patients consider her. That said, the Doll is clearly a very much neutered/bastardized "piece" of Maria, just as the hunter you fight in the Nightmare is...it's unlikely the TRUE Maria would ever have turned to such heavy-handed use of her blood were she whole. For that matter, she might have tried actually...y'know...talking to you, rather than going straight to "cut first, ask never".
Thanks a lot. I really wanted to be careful about referencing him properly, as he has worked extremely hard on his stuff and I wanted to make sure he received ample credit. I think these are some really great insights. Maria's spirit has definitely been "split," so to speak, if we consider that the "Old Hunter's Bone," if Maria's, might have been taken after her grave was dug up. I think it's really interesting that Gehrman preserved her memory, as you say, as when she was more caring. Gehrman yearns for her, but perhaps did not understand her as best as he could have.
Absolutely! I think the whole "obsession" aspect is very telling there. That said, I also think it's relevant Gehrman essentially ignores, or even avoids, the Doll...I think he built the *original* Doll with the hope of getting comfort from it, and he did, in truth, get a very maternal type of creation (creature?) in the Hunter's Dream. Unfortunately, this wasn't really Maria, or was at least an incomplete reflection of her...the pain of seeing this "half-Maria" was so acute that he could barely tolerate the Doll's presence. On an unrelated note, I've got some ideas about what, exactly, you actually achieve in taking down the Orphan of Kos, and the implications re: Mergo. I'll toss you a message on Facebook, as I'd love your input on that!
Has anyone ever thought that the Umbilical chords found within the game's lore by Micholash and Gherman (found in the old Workshop) were ACTUALLY from Mother Kos? Time is convoluted in this area (as it is in the Nightmare), so it could be that what they took was the umbilical chord from Kos as like in real life, the Stem Cells could be used because they are the purist cells of a born/unborn child.. but just a thought.
I saw it mentioned somewhere that the Executioners (which would probably include their massacre) came before the Healing Church. I think it was something about Church attire being inspired by that of the Executioners. It was a while ago and I don't even remember the source so I could be mistaken.
I never really bought into the idea of Maria, first of all being a Byrgenwerth Scholar, or her pairing with the Healing Church and becoming head of the Research Hall. First of all she is a Vileblood whether she resents it or not, and the extreme prejudice placed upon the Vilebloods from Logarius, still lives on to this day as seen in Alfred. I don't think she would be accepted for such a position. Secondly, if she regrets her actions at the Hamlet and abandons the Hunters why would she just help them in their research of defiling the Hamlet? If she cared for them, I can't see her as the one subjecting them to such torment. One of my beliefs is that each dream is centered around a human host and it's Great One creator. Nightmare of Mensis, Micolash, Mergo. Hunters Dream, Gehrnan, Moon Presence. Hunters Nightmare, Maria, Orphan of Kos. I believe Maria created the Hunters Nightmare to imprison the Hunters. And took to the position of care taker of the Reasearch Hall after she transcended, not before. Bloodborne story is very vague, and I could be terribly wrong.
Nightmares are hosted by great-ones and this nightmare is a punishment for the atrocities committed by the old hunters (including maria). Since Kos was killed by the hunters, it is her nightmare.
@@TS111WASD I don't think Kos was killed by the hunters. She responded to the fishing village's people prayers and created the nightmare to punish them. I'm pretty sure it's stated Great Ones must die in order for their children to be born. Kos died of "natural causes" so to speak. Perhaps creating the nightmare took the last out if her.
I believe that kos was the fist source of blood from an actual old one, before the discovery of kos, Women were experemented on using "Water" to accend their state of being and created the first old-one-like blood. However this method failed most of the time, making very ineffectve. The only known person to become a blood-saint this way was Adella.
Just wondering... If magic does not exist in Bloodborne, how do you explain the hamlet locals electricuting the shells? Or Hunter Tools like A Call Beyond, the Auger of Ebrietas, the Executioner's Glove, the Choir Bell or the Messenger's Gift? Psionics? While Redgrave got a few things right such as Maria referring to Kos's remains ehen she talks about corpses, there's a lot that they get wrong regarding the mintutia on account of directly contradicting what the game explicitly tells us, like the Great Ones being explicitly sympathetic and often coming when called upon. And I am firmly convinced Redgrave got the bit about magic wrong.
I always thought lady Maria failed to end this nightmare which require defeating orphan of kos and she cast away her Rakuyo because she lost faith in her skill. Then she guard the truth hoping someone will come to end the nightmare, but that someone must be stronger than her. And in her despair(never ending nightmare) she tried to kill herself. Your video change my perspective, thank you.
there's a composer who break down her BGM. and just from a few tones in her music piece, he said that lady maria is a classy lady. couldn't agree more. besides all of the complications, sadness etc around her, she is still of a noble blood.
I think the big secret she's trying to protect is moreso the eldrich truth they found, not the atrocities the first hunters did. It's the same as Ludwig. Ludwig turned into a beast fighting for what he believed in, and his only hope when we talk to him in the nightmare is that the Church hunters would've been successful. That in spite of what became of him, his followers and pupils would keep the scourge of beasts in check and carry his legacy as he hoped they would. Reality was sadly different, and they became deranged bloodthirsty beasts all the same as he did, and Yharnam fell. Just as he had feared. I don't think that Maria saw what they did to the Fishing Hamlet and was disgusted by it. The scholars had done plenty of this stuff, digging out eyeballs and playing around with fetuses and whatnot, as one can see in Byrgenwerth when we visit there. She was moreso trying to protect the world from finding what they found in there, the corpse of a Great One. If some nutters were to find it, they'd probably start fidgeting with umbilical cords and perform insane rituals to beckon the moon and bring nightmares about and run around libraries howling with cages on their heads. And much like Ludwig, she was right.
![WIZE - TALKIN' (instrumental) | 24 [2] BEAT TAPE OUT NOW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wMkAl8jdvVk/mqdefault.jpg)
"Lady Maria, stealing the hearts of hunters everywhere"
both literally and figuratevly
She's a much better Phantom Thief than any of the Phantom Thieves because her actions have an immediate effect.
Nevermind "changing hearts" when you can simply rip a person's heart out and show him his beating heart as he returns to the Hunter's Dream or (perhaps) goes straight to hell where he belongs.
@@KamenRider1 That's a nice "joke" against "Joker" you brought up there.
And huntresses everywhere
@@loyal_makoto9031 hell yeah 😂
*Vaati never makes Prepare to cry*
Mitch L: "Fine, I'll do it myself."
He doesn't have who to plagiarise.
@Elysberto Fernandes he used lore made by others as his own and didn't give credit
@@theonewhoismany8072 I mean was it word for word ?
@@theonewhoismany8072 you do realise that he usually credits the people and if not mentions it in the comments or description, or the person does not want to be named, or he doesn’t know who made it, or everyone who watches souls borne should know
Vaati actually said quite some time ago that the reason why he never made the Prepare to Cry on her is Mitch L‘s video.. he said that Mitch‘s video is so good that he himself would have nothing else to add and it would just be a rip-off if he‘d do it
I just realized this but, when Gehrman is killed he says: "The night, and dream, were long..." while raising his right arm to the sky, falling to his knee, and then falling down with his arm still raised. Maria dies the same way.
Well, Lady Maria is Gehrman's student after all
@@vihuynhquang5204 "hello class today we are going to learn how to do a dramatic death fall"
@@Bananaman559
The stupidity and ignorance were...
intolerable...
*Dies*
Bananaman559 lmao
If so maybe it's connected to the only gesture that allows you to "communicate with great ones"
Lady Maria’s whole story in general is very sad in itself. She was one of the first hunters, learning under Gehrman himself. Despite being of Cainhurst lineage, she shunned her blood magic powers and trained and became one of the greatest hunters to have ever lived by honing her technique with her Rakuyo. Then one fateful day, her and Gerhman went to the Fishing Hamlet, discovered Kos, and eventually massacred the whole village to uncover its secrets to return to Brygenwerth; including the unborn child of Kos. This led to Willem learning about the existence of the Great Ones, thus starting all the events of the game. Maria felt so disgusted in her role in all of this that she threw her beloved sword into the lake, wishing to be free of the cycle of violence and her role in all of this. She tried to do good, and help and comfort the patients experimented on by the Church, becoming the only comfort in their wretched existence. But despite how hard she tried, she couldn’t help them. And eventually, she couldn’t outrun her guilt and the suffering around her, and she took her own life. Then she became trapped in the Hunter’s Nightmare, forced to wear her Hunter Garb and wield her sword for all eternity, standing watch over the Fishing Hamlet next to the Research Hall filled with patients she couldn’t help, both her greatest sources of shame. When she finds you, she doesn’t even hate you, the only reason she fights you is because she’s so ashamed of what happened at the Fishing Hamlet and so frightened of what’s in there, that she tries to make you give up looking. She knows you’ll just return to the dream and then come back if she kills you, so she tries desperately to stop you, even delving into the blood magic she rejected for all her life just to stop you. It’s a really sad story and killing her here could easily be interpreted as you freeing her from the eternal torment of the Nightmare, having to stand watch over your greatest source of shame forever.
This is the best. I was so disappointed that Vaati never did a Prepare to Cry for Maria, and just in the general lack of TH-cam content on her. She's my favorite character in all of Soulsborne, and yeah. She's a cutie.
Thanks!
IKR, She's even in the cover of the DLC so you would expect people direct some attention to her, at least I did...
Ludwig story is also important but most things about him are pretty clear and established.
Paging Doctor Shoggoth Same here. its insane that overlooked a prepare to cry for such an important character.
I'm still waiting for Vaati to do that video. He said he was doing a Prepare to Cry for her like forever ago in a video. It'll probably never be released, but I'll be waiting.
Vaati should call most of his videos Prepare to Plagiarize. The truth will come out one day. Made a YT career off stealing other people's theories from every source imaginable, and hiding it in his fake, ultra sincere British voice of oh so innocent and kind. It's all complete bullshit.
It's ok, there's a lot of us out there who know the truth. Challenge him on this claim whatsoever, and not will he only refuse to address it, he will delete your comment and make your posts invisible to others.
14:12 I wouldn't say lady Maria using her blood was her giving in to her nature, but more out of desperation in an attempt to keep you, the player from realizing the secret.
Have you heard the tale of Lady Maria the Wise? I thought not, its not a tale the Hunters would tell you...
Ryan Tay I was going through the comments waiting for this.
Ironic
Have you heard of the take of Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower? I thought not. It is not a tale that VaatiVidya would tell you.
It's a Cainhurst legend.
I feel bad for Gehrman and Maria. The more we know about their stories, the more we see that they were actually trying to protect us, and that in a sense makes them beautiful. Doesn't make me feel like less of a badass when I beat the shit out of them though/
Lady Maria is my favorite character. Her outfit is the best too.
So so
SIMP
@@serlorastheknightofflowers9953 nah, facts
Gehrman, the First Hunter is the best for me!
There should be a Bloodbourne TV series based on the lore from the game.
I prefer a Maria centric movie. From the beginning of her career, dealing with prejudice of her ancestry, proving herself, going to the village, arguing with Gehrmin about what they must do to the villagers, see in horror as Gehrmin starts dissecting the villagers and finally fighting Kos and taking her child. Then the story show her downward spiral as she trying and keep failing in healing infected people and the movie ended with her killing herself. Yay tragedy!
GigawingsVideo thatd be one of two things. Terrible, or absolutely phenomenal
that "u" bothered me much _moure_ than it should have
I would watch the shit outta this.
th-cam.com/video/ucGx2fPo85M/w-d-xo.html
*Gehrman.
My moms name was Maria, and she died 5 years ago to cancer. It was the exact same kind of life as Lady Marias. She tried so hard to protect me from the dangers of the world, even when I was not emotionally there for her. She held out for so long in this life hoping that I would be ready to face the world on my own, and I imagine her death was just as liberating. Lady Maria is the hardest boss period for me. I can't help but remember my mom whenever I face her. Most emotional moment in my life ever. RIP Ave Maria. I love you mom.
Ay that's sweet. Rest in peace to your mom, she sounds like such a nice person.
That was so touching and sweet, reminded me of my own beloved angelic late mother whose name is Mona (kind of similar to Maria, right)… my late mother treated me and behaved with me same as your own mother - that’s pure and true love not to be found in our lives or in this world again… may our mothers both Rest In Peace and may their souls be in heaven, amen 🙏🏽
Lady Maria be dealing emotional damage damn
Holy crap your mom was the best if that was her name
maria is one of the most common names in the world
Never thought if it is possible in my whole gaming life but I would describe the fight with Lady Maria as "Beautiful." As if I was dancing with her.
That makes very little sense x.x i had more pleasure with Ludwig and Orphan
@@Fiery_Latina_Goatchan_GF_681 Dance part comes from the Violin music of the first phase mixed with her being a hunter.
Most bossfights are just Giant abominations that oneshot you if you miss a dodge. Lady Maria Bossfight is extremely fun if you have the old hunter bone and don't parry cheese her. Fighting against Maria basically becomes the two of you dashing in and out of existance to clash blades as the lovely violin plays in the background, That is the Dance aspect of this bossfight.
Bro the fight with ludwig made me cry
I was so happy when I killed him(freed him )
😓 Poor ludwig.
I wish I had that much elegance in my duel with her. My fighting style consisted of stepping away and waiting for an opening to parry, about 80% of the fight
@@danimishlib3450 but why when Ludwig literally did it to himself ? .
Oh man was I surprised when I saw my own painting in my recommended videos, I feel kind of embarassed that it's out for everyone to see like that, but thanks for picking it! Naturally I was curious and watched your content and I have to say it's the best Lady Maria video I've come across, you've got yourself a new subscriber!
Hey, thank you! I think I may have forgotten to give you credit for the artwork... If you'd like, give me a link that I can add to the description so people can enjoy your work :)
I don't really mind at all, if anything I'm flattered it's getting used! It was just kinda weird seeing it here, I was thinking "hey this looks oddly familiar, wait what?" haha! Funny thing is, I was actually taking a break from working on a doll painting! I've been replaying the game recently and kinda had an urge to paint something Bloodborne related lol.
Anyway here's the link to the image: de-capo.deviantart.com/art/Lady-Maria-589250405 although I don't really use that dA account too much and I don't have any other galleries.
@@decahedronical You drew the thumbnail?
@@tarisco614 Yes I did lol
How exactly are you embarrassed e.e?
Maria: I'm sorry we were just trying to understand the nature of our own existence!
Kos: cool motive, still murder
I'm so glad there's still a channel that covers bloodborne lore!
I came from the future and we're still playing Bloodborne, still exclusive for PS and still waiting for Bloodborne 2
When I saw Maria for the first time, I thought immediately of how Gehrman must’ve grieved the loss of a daughter figure. Him, being a sentimental old man, must’ve crafted the Doll to act as a Maria stand-in.
The Kool Krips Klub daughter might be the wrong word for how he felt about her LMAOOOOOO
FilthyMercy Main anime daughter maybe?
Just going to say that Gehrman definitely did not see Maria as a daughter figure lol
Just dirty old man think dirty to his own student.......
@@peeradechsrisaowanan9819 you are the dirty!
Exceptional video, Mitch. Maria's always a favorite, hitting that sweet spot where appearance, lore, backstory, music, and fight quality merge together, and I think you really did her justice here.
When you say that you think that what might have been taken from the Hamlet for study at Bergenwerth might have been the unborn child of Kos I think you are very likely correct. As seen in JSF's video "Attempting to listen to the Baneful Chants," the background chanting in the Hamlet specifically states, "Mother is dead, her baby taken." (As a side note, I'd also suggest his "Bloodborne Up Close Episode 07," which includes some really fascinating speculation on Maria's life and death, her presence in the Nightmare, and the way various elements of the dream-worlds, including the Doll and the Winter Lanterns, and to a certain extent the Research Hall itself manifest as aspects or elements of Maria's life and personality.)
(This is also one reason why I believe that the Orphan that we fight in the Nightmare is the manifestation of the curse on Gehrman; his--Gerhman's--body cannot be taken because it is already leashed to the will of the Moon Presence but his sleeping mind can be tied directly to the pain and suffering that he inflicted in life.)
One thing I can't help wondering about Maria, though, is whether or not she actually appreciates her own liberation. What I mean by this is, her place in the Astral Clocktower is specifically standing between any newcomers and the Fishing Hamlet. If we believe that the Hamlet is the real-world Hamlet taken into the Dream a la the Lecture Hall, that's one thing--in this case, she's protecting Kos and the villagers from further defilement. On the other hand, if we see the Nightmare Hamlet not as the village itself but rather the manifestation of the curse, created by the will of Kos ("In his house at R'yleh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming" being one of the most well-known quotations from Lovecraft, so I would suggest that in that vein the mere fast that Kos is dead doesn't necessarily mean her power is. After all, _something_ had to answer the laments of the villagers to create the Nightmare.), then Maria is actually perpetuating the curse. Unlike Brador, she doesn't seem to have the "keep the Church's name clean" motivation, so it's entirely possible to me that she is seeking atonement for her own sins by keeping the curse intact to punish her fellow guilty hunters. Of course, it's also possible that she simultaneously sees it as her duty and also appreciates her freedom.
(I've always wondered about the Doll's line...is she speaking on Maria's behalf, or for her own? Does she speak of Maria's freedom from the Nightmare, of her own freedom from Maria? Or perhaps both? Hmmm....)
Thanks for your feedback! I need to go have a look at Aegon and JSF's thoughts on this topic as I kept myself away from those videos while I made this one.
Mitch L yes truly fantastic video sir
+DezoPenguin same here. Maria is the best waifu.
RadiantBlue3 yes then the fire keeper then the emerald herald
Meh she was my least favorite
"Lady Maria, I'm a robin." One of the best/ my favorite lines of voice acting in the game.
Great video too! Love bloodborne lore
"A corpse... Should be left well alone." - Lady Maria.
It's sad that she acknowledges the fact she's already been dead, but she still chooses to stay in the Old Hunter's Nightmare to ward off any hunter foolish to reach the Fishing Hamlet and find Kos. A spirit already in peace, but still chose to stay as the guarding huntress of the clock tower.
Chooses to stay? Maybe she would...id she had the chouce.The hunter's nightmare is her punishment. As it is for all hunters there.
@@splinter360 poor maria
Lady Maria was definitely my favorite..and felt very bad for her.
the way Maria releases the arm of the hunter, is pretty much similar to the Doll's, when you go for levelling up.
Maria is the Artorias of bloodborne. At the very least, shares the role with Gerhman
I think there is magic of a sort in the Bloodborne universe, but it's more along the lines of the old fashioned magic where one petitioned and relied on powerful forces. Various enemies use powers which are like sorcery, and the fact you can't learn them in part is what makes the game kinda scary. Compared with the Souls games, when you see an enemy use magic you can be pretty sure you can use similar powers, but in Bloodborne they are overwhelmingly alien abilities beyond the ken of mankind.
The quicksilver bullets, infused with one's own blood, are a kind of magic in their ability to harm foes when conventional arms fail. Look at the hunter tools with their supernatural effects, there's definitely something occult about how they use blood to fuel their power. Then there's the Arcane stat itself. I definitely think there is magic, but instead of being an all powerful master of the elements, the player as well as most other characters are looking at shadows on the cave wall with only the faint inkling of what they really are.
That all said, great video, definitely puts the human aspect of what happened in the past in better perspective.
00Boogie I think of Great Ones
@@Mondy667
The Great Ones can only be seen in the Dream Dimension or in this case, the Hunter's Nightmare.
There is a lot of horrors as wide as the eyes of the mind can see.
Since great ones are "sympathetic" in nature and often answer when called upon, the hunter's nightmare is just what if a great one was called upon in anger or desperation. Though often enough, calling upon a great one is always a "be careful what you wish for" scenario.
Where does it say that Maria is trapped? Lore states that she CHOSE to stay, in order to prevent CURIOUS hunters from finding out about Fishing Hamlet.
Bree_ When the Doll says that she feels that a "heavy shackle" has been lifted from within her after killing Maria, I interpreted from that that Maria was being held against her will, to a degree, and was waiting for someone to best her. Perhaps she knew that whoever could beat her would be capable of doing the right thing with the spirit of Kos. You're free to interpret it however you like though, obviously.
Ah okay, well I thought that just meant she's glad she doesn't have to protect the Fishing Hamlet anymore. Because I felt that was her shackle, though she chose to stay.
@False Feathers
Shackles can be self-inflicted, but you're ignoring the context of the Hunter's Nightmare; Its basically a hell for Hunters. The item that allows access into the DLC tells us that Hunters drunk on blood end up there.
Look at the other hunters we see trapped in the nightmare, do Ludwig and Laurence look like they want to be there?
In the cutscene before the player fights Laurence you can see him holding his head and screaming as if in pain.
And Ludwig is transformed into a horse like monstrosity that has no wits until he sees his sword.
Last but not least, everything we see in the Nightmare has already happened in the real world.The secret she's guarding happened long in the past.
I think she killed herself out of guilt in the "real world" (evident by the blood you see around her chair when you first encounter her) and then after her death she was sent to the Hunter's Nightmare where guarding her greatest shame became her own personal hell.
@@Vincinate Simon killed Lady Maria
@@randomthepleb4364no he didn't. the creator originally wanted to make lady maria an optional boss of which if you chose to not kill her Simon will kill her. but it's been established someone like Simon who is barely even known and just a harrowed hunter like many isn't strong enough and it would make no sense so the content were not used. Simon gets killed by the deer boi he ain't killing an old hunter like Maria or Ludwig.
How I wish the Rakuyo weapon has a blood effect around it just like Lady Maria's one. That would be dope.
that'd be way tooo OP tho xD
easy enough to tweak damage down?
yeah, i was gutted.
Closest we can get is Chikage
That happens with her because she's a vileblood we could get the same effect if we had the option to be a vileblood in game, that'd be badass.
This Video finally fills the gap that VattiVatya left in my soul with his promise of Prepare to Cry Lady Maria
I would like to thank you kind soul
Oh man, yet another tragic figure. BB seems to be full of them. One small thing I disagree on though, I don't believe that Gehrman and Maria massacred the whole Fishing Hamlet alone. I think they were sent out by Byrgenwerth as sort of scouts first to check out the area and see if the rumors were true. After that they went back to Byrgenwerth to give report and then they travelled back to the Hamlet with a bunch of hunters at their side massacring everyone (maybe Willem, Laurence and a bunch of Byrgenwerth scholars and professors came along as well, I mean they'd surely wanna see a real Great one with their own eyes). Of course Willem and Laurence then didn't take part in the massacre, they let the hunters do the dirty work.
That's possible as well. In my head I imagine that perhaps M&G/Byrgenwerth scholars may have been welcomed as visitors initially, and it was only once M&G were given the order to steal something did things become violent. Laurence is another character I've got an itch to do a video about, since really, in the end a lot of stuff comes back to him.
Mitch L I'd love a video about Laurence and his past. After all he's pretty much the catalyst for the events of BB.
Maybe the villagers defended the old one, and were cut down as a result. I think the searching for eyes in the skull could have been done by other scholars, that's grunt work. And Gehrman got the orphan.
Certain since hunters must've not been allowed to act by their own, even if their mission were to find the eyes *in the case that they have engaged in contact with the great one*, it's more appealing and in character to think that the scholars would've wanted to presence the discovery by their own
Simon asks you to kill Maria because he understands being trapped in the Nightmare as well. Thank you for this amazing interpretation. I agree with it for the most part.
This is frankly, one of the /BEST/ and well put together Lore videos that I’ve seen. I’m a huge fan of Vaatividya and others, stumbling across this though, you are a gem. Wonderful editing and pacing, thank you! And... Subscribed!!! ❤️👍
You mentioned that those whose eyes are covered could perhaps be something like a preventative measure to stray from the nightmare. I would say this is possible but not much effective since Vicar Amelia ends up there despite having her eyes covered in the waking world. At least it’s heavily implied she is.
Never had a chance to actually play the game. I don't have the time unfortunately. But I've always loved Maria, she's like the embodiment of willful ignorance. She wanted to help people obviously, but she slowly realized her mistakes. She came from a long family of death and power and tried to escape that. Unfortunately she followed them in their bloody footsteps
Also I can't help but admit I'm super gay for her voice
"Curse the fiends, their children too."
Any FromSoft NPC in this game just has a really rough time and I just wanna give them a hug and offer them some tea.
Lady Maria, the original "Foul tarnished..."
Such a great complex character. The moment she lets go and embraces her Vileblood powers, is one of the best moments of the game.
Thank you so much of this analysis! I wanted to do some voice acting for her on my channel, but was woefully unaware of how little dialogue she has. This gave me EVERYTHING and MORE of what I now know what to do to give her character justice.
Surely you mean my waifu for laifu
@Moonman truly top tier reasoning fitting of an intellectual conversation.
@Moonman I expected nothing and was still disappointed.
serena is it true or is it something you made up?
I like the Doll in the hub world way more then Maria even tho it looks like her
Moonman Weeb lowlife, piece of trash
I’m sorry but the way you say Maria at 1:27 fucking killed me.
Bloodbourne is my favourite souls game but it really felt like cainhurst was not finished. Seems like the team rushed to release it than polish the cainhurst story
KimJongWins All the souls games have such areas. Look at Lost Izalith.
Cainhurst is a bit like the Painted World in DS1. Probably a lot of big ideas that they had but weren't able to flesh out completely.
I think she uses the Bloodblades against you because she's willing to take all measures to protect her sins even beyond death.
You snuck in Revenge of the Sith soundtrack here. I absolutely love it so much!
The Prepare To Cry we never got
I enjoyed watching this and I'm happy that this video was recommended for me. She's my favourite character, too. I had the same theory that she didn't want another hunter to make her same mistakes and that her eventual death was her release. Good video and I loved how you made a Maria for this.
Dragon-of-The-Abyss86 Thanks you!! Laurence is up next so stay tuned for that!
I'll have to check that one out, but also the one you mentioned about Cainhurst.
Wait, YOU CAN SURVIVE HER VISCERAL??? WHAT??? So many times I have been instakilled though!!!
You can on lower new game pluses to just new game or you been unlucky to where she kept roll/dash catching you with her combo to a visceral follow up.
Amusing bit of fridge brilliance for Lady Maria in particular having a powerful Visceral? Dexterity is what determines the power of that.
Low healthpool.
14:29 onward- Beautiful timing and editing.
It made the hairs on my head stand on end.
Totally! Which song is that btw?
Totally! Which song is that btw?
Wow, this is amazing! I loved every detail so I have a hard time saying what I liked best! The presentation, the points you brought up, ugh I can't get enough. I can't wait for a Doll video, as she is one of the greatest Bloodborne mysteries! But goddamn this was awesome! I shivered when you said she let go, and I've gotta say that this is the best version of Maria's story I've ever heard told!
Thanks! That means a lot.
Probably my favourite soulsborne boss. There’s other fights I think are mechanically better, but the top of the clock tower is just so atmospheric, the music is great, and Maria’s character design just looks so cool in that setting. The feeling I got during that fight and walking up to the clock afterwards was amazing.
To me it's Gehrman, everything about him is perfect, especially his scythe, he is really the best.
Mitch L really said "fine. I'll do it myself"
I wonder if she gave up healing the patients in the lab because when they had their brain fluid, they kept talking about THE SEA.
(Where the curse began.)
An idea occurs to me, that might be disproved in the game lore, what if Maria didn't know she was a vileblood? Say Ludwig for example visted Cainhurst whe she was very young and sensed or noticed that she would be a great warrior so he kidnapped her and entrused her to Ghaiman for training. She didn't know about her inate abilities until you start beating her which maybe never happened before which caused her to instinctively activate her cainhurst ability. Just an idea that popped into my head.
She was a citizen of cainhurst and direct relative to the queen. Not realizing that she's a vileblood wpuld be a stretch.
@@NoobGamer-ix2mr "Maria is distantly related to the undead Queen" did You forget about this?
A bit late but doesn't it say she prefers the rakuyo over blood blades as it requires dexterity? So she would have to know how to use blood blades even before her death
Maria is one of my favorite characters of all time, and probably favorite of all time for video games. This video does the story justice, thank you
Dude you do deep into that, she has to be one of the most interesting characters in the lore behind her is great. So much insight as to why the dream and the nightmare exist cohesively
Bravo!
I've gotta say - i lack the patience and inquisitiveness it takes to compile information to this degree - it's safe to say that Vaati has become the base of lore when it comes to soulsbourne games for the longest of time. I don't always agree with him however and thus i am over the moon (shallow pun was intended, alas it is Halloween tonight🎃) upon coming across this channel!
Bravo these are some very high quality videos you created here - I feel this channel deserves many more followers! Here's to another 30k and then some!
stay safe during these nightmarish times
I am curious. Since people connect Maria to the Doll, and Doll to the Winter lanterns. Could it actualy be ,that W.lanterns are nightmarish version of Maria. Here is why i feel that way, in old hunter workshop ,you find attire that resembles Dolls, it says its a spare attire. It might be Marias spare attire, since she is a royalty in a way. And the big blobheads in clinic cause you to frenzy, just like lanters. Just think about it. It might actualy be Gehrmans memory of Maria being their caretaker. And then it all gets distorted in nightmare (just like birds and dogs switch heads).
Just wanted to say that i appreciate this alot, Mitch. Always a pleasure seeing pockets of people who are deeply invested in lores like this. Gotta love your choice of background music too! I love shutter island. Thanks again for this. Bloodborne will be a game to remember for sure.
And I appreciate you!
I needed a break from the madness of the Persona fandom fighting and trolling about their "waifus" and I found solace among those who play Bloodborne and NiER Automata.
Lady Maria has become one of my favorite characters of all time. Her lore, her theme, her design, and her fighting style are all fantastic.
I really wish that she was as popular as the likes of Yorha 2B or any of the Phantom Thieves.
Perhaps it's for the better.
Her obscurity makes her a treasure that, only those of us with great insight and the courage to enter the nightmare, can truly appreciate.
May you all find your way home, my fellow Hunters. Farewell.
Been playing for about 3 years and I'm still learning awesome stuff. I know this is old but I loved the video.
The child of Kos taken could be Ebrietas.
After all, she's the Daughter of the Cosmos.
"Kos" seems to be an alternative version of "Cosmos", and Micolash famously said "Kos. Or some say, "Kosm(os)".
What a legend, still checking comments
😁
My favourite aspects and character of Bloodborne. Truly excellent video Mitch. The use of the Shutter Island ost was a great choice.
I thought it fit well! Thanks a bunch.
You know I've been waiting for this video. Great job as usual, finally someone with a solid grasp on the timeline, THANK KOS!
But lemme point out a few things because I'm an annoying person:
- Your theories are solid enough for you to walk on your own legs, Mitch :) there's really no need to keep referencing the Paleblood Hunt every 5 seconds. Don't get me wrong, I love Redgrave's stuff even if I don't agree with a lot of his theories. I just think that his ideas influenced the way the community looks at some aspects of the game a bit too much.
- I am sincerely surprised that you didn't point out that Maria's presence among the Byrgenwerth Hunters is one of the biggest clues towards Laurence being the scholar who brought the Old Blood to Cainhurst. As you said, Laurence and Willem had Gehrman on their payroll, after all. And yes, yes I know that your point is that Cainhurst is waaay older than the Church and the college itself but I still find Maria's presence in Gehrman's team an anomaly that only Laurence's secret meddlings with Cainhurst could explain.
Unless you believe that Gehrman was a Cainhurst guy himself, of course. I personally dismiss that theory since I totally headcanon him as the third loyal servant of Willem, alongside Dores and the Gatekeeper.
- Whatever the scholars (them, not the hunters. Maria threw her weapon away the very moment she realized what they had done. I doubt she took the time to vivisect anyone before going "oh well, this is fucked up. I'm out." but perhaps it's just me :P ) took from Kos, being it an umbilical cord or the Orphan himself, that was most likely used in experiments that led to Rom's ascension. Which ties the Fishing Hamlet directly to the Mensis ritual. And MP, and the Dream, and Mergo. And practically everything else. Gods, I could write an essay about Rom. She's the true waifu.
- You sound a bit like Vaati at times. You're scaring me Mitch :P
Glad to have helped, I know you were a fan of this character so I'm happy that I did her justice.
-That's understandable. I guess going into a topic that I wasn't 100% sure about in every respect made me want to hold onto a source that I trusted like training wheels on a bicycle.
-Honestly, I left any mention of that out just because I'm still unsure. I have a feeling that whoever brought the blood to Cainhurst understood the gravity of the action they were taking and most likely lived out the rest of their days their, so I'm not sure if it could be Laurence, but your theory that it was could be true as well.
-I agree, there's a lot more to talk about on the front of Byrgenwerth's experiments. Even though Byrgenwerth appears as the more "rational" group in comparison to the Healing Church, they both have their problems, to say the least. Mensis may be a video to do in the future.
-I fear... the sweet lore... it sings to me, it's enough to make a man sick...
12:29 HEY. HEY HEY HEY THATS A JOHN WILLIAMS TRACK FROM REVENGE OF THE SITH WOOOOOO
I noticed just now you are sitting on a coffin below the clock face, with lumen flowers littered all over it... MARIAS PHYSICAL BODY IS DEAD GUYS
I literally was thinking about her tragedy over night and day and it makes me sad as she is one of my favorite characters
She fights the player because she still respect the hunters, and wants to hide their shameful secret.
When she decides to use her blood, it’s because she values her companions’ honor over her own.
How gently she lets the player character go after jump-scaring them 😅
magic most certainly exists in bloodborne, and it is *everywhere*. saying that it doesnt is kinda weird when theres a stat literally called arcane, as well as arcane damage, what is obviously spells cast by enemies, the magic of the great ones and the existence of nightmares, etc.
Today I thought to my self: What if the words Maria spoke to the player, were actually the last monologue before she suicided? Maybe she was convincing herself with stuff like "only an honest death will cure you know" and "liberate you from your wild curiosity". She couldn't take the massacre in the fishing hamlet, which was partially caused because of her "wild curiosity" and the suicide would "liberate" her from the guilt and maybe even a bit of PTSD. The first thing she says "A corpse should be left alone" is maybe her recognizing her mistake. So she actually does not only want to protect the discovery of the fishing hamlet, but maybe she wants to protect the Hunter too.. Damn this game is soo deep i love it
(That was my first theory so sorry if there are things that don't work :D)
Another excellent video! I learned so much from it. I always thought that just being in the presence of Kos transformed them, but the parasites make more sense. I thought they were always just put out there so the weapon would make sense. Keep up the good work, I look forward to any future Bloodborne videos you have.
And is the music at 12:25 from Revenge of the Sith? Lol
John Williams is the master.
The queen herself says “feel the spreading corruption burn” with corruption being a vileblood rune it makes sense that her slashes would be aflame
I just realized that there's a odd chance that the dung eater's dialogue about the curse being passed down may be inspired by the Shaman's Dialogue
I was thinking the same thing!
I could swear I hear Sheev's theme playing in this video...
One of my favorite Bloodborne characters. Awesome video as always, Mitch. The ending was superb, by the way, made me feel so many emotions.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, in depth theories on bloodborne. I feel like it isn't as robust in the YT community as is dark souls. This was the ultimate git Gud fight in souls for me.
Now i have twice as much respect for her
Mitch: Have you ever heard of the Tragedy of Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower?
3:49 eh sir there happens to be an entire fkng mansion completely yet casually on fire while youre hopping around?
Fantastic video, per usual. Also, I wanted to extend my compliments in regards to how dutiful you are in giving Redgrave credit when appropriate.
Also, I think it might be instructive to consider the possibility that the Lady Maria you fight in the Hunter's Nightmare is only one "part" of the original, living Lady Maria. She basically embodies the angry, violent portion of herself, reflected by the fact that she is garbed as she, no doubt, dressed as a hunter. Likewise, I believe the Doll in the Hunter's Dream is representative of the time she spent at the research hall. As you stated in the video, there is definitely a connection between her and the Doll, and the Doll's personality seems to be a reflection of her (general) demeanor at that time too, at least in terms of how the patients consider her.
That said, the Doll is clearly a very much neutered/bastardized "piece" of Maria, just as the hunter you fight in the Nightmare is...it's unlikely the TRUE Maria would ever have turned to such heavy-handed use of her blood were she whole. For that matter, she might have tried actually...y'know...talking to you, rather than going straight to "cut first, ask never".
Thanks a lot. I really wanted to be careful about referencing him properly, as he has worked extremely hard on his stuff and I wanted to make sure he received ample credit.
I think these are some really great insights. Maria's spirit has definitely been "split," so to speak, if we consider that the "Old Hunter's Bone," if Maria's, might have been taken after her grave was dug up. I think it's really interesting that Gehrman preserved her memory, as you say, as when she was more caring. Gehrman yearns for her, but perhaps did not understand her as best as he could have.
Absolutely! I think the whole "obsession" aspect is very telling there. That said, I also think it's relevant Gehrman essentially ignores, or even avoids, the Doll...I think he built the *original* Doll with the hope of getting comfort from it, and he did, in truth, get a very maternal type of creation (creature?) in the Hunter's Dream. Unfortunately, this wasn't really Maria, or was at least an incomplete reflection of her...the pain of seeing this "half-Maria" was so acute that he could barely tolerate the Doll's presence.
On an unrelated note, I've got some ideas about what, exactly, you actually achieve in taking down the Orphan of Kos, and the implications re: Mergo. I'll toss you a message on Facebook, as I'd love your input on that!
Seems like when she pulls you in she is considering drinking your blood.
Wow... Tears in my eyes, this game is not a game, it's a masterpiece... no other game has made me feel so many emotions like bloodborne...
The Fishing Hamlet villager’s speech (accompanied by the music) at 4:33 is great.
Lady Maria can be considered as one of the most tragic, impressive and memorable characters in all souls / Elden series ❤️🙏🏽
Has anyone ever thought that the Umbilical chords found within the game's lore by Micholash and Gherman (found in the old Workshop) were ACTUALLY from Mother Kos? Time is convoluted in this area (as it is in the Nightmare), so it could be that what they took was the umbilical chord from Kos as like in real life, the Stem Cells could be used because they are the purist cells of a born/unborn child.. but just a thought.
did you ever heard of the tragedy of Lady Maria of the astral clock tower?
I saw it mentioned somewhere that the Executioners (which would probably include their massacre) came before the Healing Church. I think it was something about Church attire being inspired by that of the Executioners. It was a while ago and I don't even remember the source so I could be mistaken.
3 years on but I've just picked the game back up. And you're right. The executioners garb was the basis for the healing churches attire.
I never really bought into the idea of Maria, first of all being a Byrgenwerth Scholar, or her pairing with the Healing Church and becoming head of the Research Hall. First of all she is a Vileblood whether she resents it or not, and the extreme prejudice placed upon the Vilebloods from Logarius, still lives on to this day as seen in Alfred. I don't think she would be accepted for such a position. Secondly, if she regrets her actions at the Hamlet and abandons the Hunters why would she just help them in their research of defiling the Hamlet? If she cared for them, I can't see her as the one subjecting them to such torment.
One of my beliefs is that each dream is centered around a human host and it's Great One creator. Nightmare of Mensis, Micolash, Mergo. Hunters Dream, Gehrnan, Moon Presence. Hunters Nightmare, Maria, Orphan of Kos.
I believe Maria created the Hunters Nightmare to imprison the Hunters. And took to the position of care taker of the Reasearch Hall after she transcended, not before.
Bloodborne story is very vague, and I could be terribly wrong.
What about the nightmare frontier?
Nightmares are hosted by great-ones and this nightmare is a punishment for the atrocities committed by the old hunters (including maria). Since Kos was killed by the hunters, it is her nightmare.
@@TS111WASD I don't think Kos was killed by the hunters. She responded to the fishing village's people prayers and created the nightmare to punish them. I'm pretty sure it's stated Great Ones must die in order for their children to be born. Kos died of "natural causes" so to speak. Perhaps creating the nightmare took the last out if her.
Maria : the name means "sea of bitterness"
I believe that kos was the fist source of blood from an actual old one, before the discovery of kos, Women were experemented on using "Water" to accend their state of being and created the first old-one-like blood. However this method failed most of the time, making very ineffectve. The only known person to become a blood-saint this way was Adella.
I love this game so much but there's nothing left sadly.
Just wondering...
If magic does not exist in Bloodborne, how do you explain the hamlet locals electricuting the shells? Or Hunter Tools like A Call Beyond, the Auger of Ebrietas, the Executioner's Glove, the Choir Bell or the Messenger's Gift? Psionics?
While Redgrave got a few things right such as Maria referring to Kos's remains ehen she talks about corpses, there's a lot that they get wrong regarding the mintutia on account of directly contradicting what the game explicitly tells us, like the Great Ones being explicitly sympathetic and often coming when called upon.
And I am firmly convinced Redgrave got the bit about magic wrong.
Wow Mitch, great moves keep it up. Proud of you!
Anyone else notice Padmé's Ruminations that starts playing at 12:00?
I always thought lady Maria failed to end this nightmare which require defeating orphan of kos and she cast away her Rakuyo because she lost faith in her skill. Then she guard the truth hoping someone will come to end the nightmare, but that someone must be stronger than her. And in her despair(never ending nightmare) she tried to kill herself.
Your video change my perspective, thank you.
there's a composer who break down her BGM. and just from a few tones in her music piece, he said that lady maria is a classy lady. couldn't agree more.
besides all of the complications, sadness etc around her, she is still of a noble blood.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Lady Maria?
I thought not. It’s not a story the Healing Church would tell you. It’s an old hunter legend.
You know what I've always wondered. If Maria threw her Rakuyo down the well, what on earth is she fighting the player with?...
Now Lady Maria should look like my grandma but she looks younger than me bruh
the upside-down corpse at the first lamp in the Fishing Hamlet is the Hunter's Mark.
I think the big secret she's trying to protect is moreso the eldrich truth they found, not the atrocities the first hunters did.
It's the same as Ludwig. Ludwig turned into a beast fighting for what he believed in, and his only hope when we talk to him in the nightmare is that the Church hunters would've been successful. That in spite of what became of him, his followers and pupils would keep the scourge of beasts in check and carry his legacy as he hoped they would. Reality was sadly different, and they became deranged bloodthirsty beasts all the same as he did, and Yharnam fell. Just as he had feared.
I don't think that Maria saw what they did to the Fishing Hamlet and was disgusted by it. The scholars had done plenty of this stuff, digging out eyeballs and playing around with fetuses and whatnot, as one can see in Byrgenwerth when we visit there. She was moreso trying to protect the world from finding what they found in there, the corpse of a Great One. If some nutters were to find it, they'd probably start fidgeting with umbilical cords and perform insane rituals to beckon the moon and bring nightmares about and run around libraries howling with cages on their heads. And much like Ludwig, she was right.