Steven ! FEEL FREE to share any recent EXPERIENCES you're having - I'm here to make you fall in love with barebow... ... but STILL enjoy ALL OTHER FORMS of archery as well ! Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Greetings Robert and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS ! Please know this: This shooting method ISN'T "magic", nor is it a PlayStation "cheat code"; It WON'T make you a CHAMPION ARCHER with ZERO practice. What it WILL do is provide a PRACTICAL method for AIMING your arrows which DOESN'T introduce unnecessary ERROR; What it WILL do is provide a PRACTICAL method for RANGING your arrows surprisingly accurately from 5m out to 50m, and even out to 100m by only requiring that you remember 2 simple numbers like "3 finger-widths" and "1/2 finger-width). You will get SURPRISING accuracy within your very first 5 to 10 arrows at distances like 10m and 20m. But YOU WILL NEED TO PRACTICE REGULARLY in order to accomplish 2 critical things for excellence: 1. you need to BUILD YOUR SHOOTING muscles; and 2. you need to PERFECT making a "small-motion" release with your fingers. With all the things going FOR this method, you CAN still "screw it up" by getting tired and DRAWING POORLY and by RELEASING POORLY.. A bit of regular practice in order to get STRONG (and therefore CONSISTENT) and SMOOTH (and therefore ACCURATE) is a SMALL price to pay, don't you think? I'm very much looking forward to hearing from you in the near future ! Best of luck ! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Tried out the technique this weekend and I struggled with the aiming component. Too use to sights and just battling to get my head wrapped around aiming using the Arrow Tip. Always afraid that I am going to shoot too high.
Greetings Rdosramos and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS ! Glancing at your own channel and your avatar, you look like you're reasonably fit (better than me) ;-) So I'll assume you're shooting a 40# recurve bow of some kind. TIP: START with SHORT distances and LARGE stringwalking gaps; this ensures you will always shoot SHORT at least to start, so it's easy to find your arrows while you're trying to find your 2 "magic numbers of stringwalking". A pretty-darned-good starting point for a 40# bow is this: - your 20m "Initial Gap" should be around 3 finger-widths; and - your 10m "Interval Gap" should be about 1/2 finger-width. So start with a 10m target and a 3 1/2 finger gap, and these 5 steps: STEP 1: SET your (stringwalking) gap; this determines arrow elevation which determines DISTANCE; STEP 2: ANCHOR UNDER your CHIN (NOT "alongside" your chin at all !); STEP 3: SIGHT down the LEFT EDGE of your bowstring; this is your REAR SIGHT; STEP 4: PLACE the ARROWTIP on the center of the bullseye; this is your FRONT SIGHT; STEP 5: MAKE a "small-motion" release; that is, try to straighten ONLY your outer-most fingertip, so there is as LITTLE "error" as possible being introduced into the bowstring as you release If your shot is TOO SHORT, then NARROW your gap by 1/4 finger increments until you're hitting the bullseye; If your shot is TOO LONG (unlikely) then WIDEN your gap by 1/4 finger increments until you're hitting the bullseye; I PROMISE YOU, you will only need about 3 shot before you're hitting the gold (bullseye) consistently at 10m ! Waiting to hear from you soon! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS PS - do you live within 3 HOURS of AURORA IL, USA ? If yes, then I will DRIVE and VISIT you and we will SHOOT together - it'll be FUN ! Let me know. -Mark
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Thank you for all the details. I am going to try it out this Sunday at the range. I re watched your video and I realized that one of the big issues is the fact that my bow is a 30 lbs bow (its a 20 year old Samick bow which still shoots like new). I have been planning to upgrade my bow this year so the plan is to move towards a 40 to 45 lbs bow with a ILF limbs so I can upgrade when needed. I also think I was lining up the arrow point and the strong incorrectly. I think I was lining up with the right hand side of the string and not the left. 🤦♂ Yeah would love to shot with you but I am based in Ireland but would love to get in contact with you about shooting and maybe do some videos to help promote the technique.
Really enjoyed your video and just subbed, I am thinking or getting my first bow but not sure whether to go recurve or compound , think your video is swaying me to recurve. Cheers
Greetings & Happy New Year Lordollops1 ! FEEL FREE TO GET BOTH a RECURVE & A COMPOUND (don't choose)!... ... BUT at some point - because of The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD - you're going to ABANDON the compound because it's SO MUCH COOLER BEING ABLE TO SHOOT BAREBOW (ALMOST) AS ACCURATELY OTHER ARCHERS SHOOT THEIR COMPOUND BOWS :-O !!! Let's GET YOU ON THAT PATH ! TELL ME about the RECURVE BOW you've purchased: BOW HEIGHT BOW DRAW WEIGHT YOUR DRAW LENGTH LENGTH OF YOUR ARROWS WEIGHT (in "grains") of the FIELD TIPS on your ARROWS; and THE "SPINE" (part of the "stiffness") of your ARROWS Then tell me what DISTANCES you want to get GOOD AT: 10m (not likely) 20m (absolutely) 30m (likely) 40m (this is SEXY) 50m (this is where NATIONAL CLASS ARCHERS COMPETE!) 60m (this is where WORLD CLASS ARCHERS COMPETE) 70m (few fear to tread - but YOU CAN and EASILY ! 80m (fewer still fear to tread - but YOU CAN!) 90m (this is the holy grail of Barebow, and MY (FREE!) method can help you put 3 of 6 on regularly ! NOTE that I DIDN'T say 90m "you will hit BULLSEYES", because it's just not true. At least NOT easily. This will take WORK, AND a shitload of GOOD LUCK (no crosswinds) with each shot. WAITING to hear from you! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
There is a difference between trad and barebow. Every single shot was nock low and porpoising through the air. Works well for reference I guess. Please don’t use this method if you can’t adjust the bows tiller appropriately
Greetings Ryan, THERE'S SOMETHING THAT ALWAYS ASTOUNDS ME ABOUT CRITIQUES LIKE THIS: You just saw a guy take what he clearly explained were his HUNTING ARROWS FROM A (much-more-powerful) BOW and shoot them BAREBOW and point-ON-the-bullseye at a target at 50 yards and HIT THE TARGET near-effortlessly using a simple 5-step method that could be taught to a 2nd-grader... ... but you have to whine about some minor PORPOISING??? You've utterly missed the point of this video Ryan. Utterly totally absolutely MISSED the point Ryan. Utterly. Totally. This point was brutally OBVIOUS, but let me spell it out for you: THERE'S A SIMPLE METHOD FOR SHOOTING BAREBOW WHICH IS SO ACCURATE THAT EVEN A 20# YOUTH BOW SHOOTING MIS-MATCHED HUNTING ARROWS CAN STILL AIM "POINT-ON" AT A TARGET 50 YARDS AWAYS AND HIT IT ! EVERY other of the 6 THOUSAND VIEWERS who watched this world-wide "GOT" this point, and provided lots of positive feedback. YOU could only split hairs about there being a dstinction-without-a-difference between "Traditional" and "Barebow". YOU could only see an arrow from a (55#) HUNTING BOW "PORPOISING" (and only a little!) as it was shot through a 20# YOUTH TARGET BOW. Lastly, you WHINE about mis-matched tillering on a 20# BOW - ARE YOU KIDDING???? 20# YOUTH BOWS are ALREADY "spaghetti noodles" from the moment you take them out of the box! And the entire shooting technique of STRINGWALKING - and its EFFECTIVENESS - pretty much IGNORES any mis-match in tillering COMPLETELY. It's IMPOSSIBLE to achieve a SINGLE "tiller" when you're CHANGING "gap" between the NockingPoint of the arrow and the DrawingPoint of your index finger ACROSS A RANGE OF DISTANCES from about 3 inches BELOW the NockingPoint to 1 inch ABOVE the NockingPoint... but STRINGWALKERS DON'T CARE, because THE BOW CAN HANDLE THE IMBALANCE ! Let me try to make you understand by using a TENNIS ANALOGY: EVER see even a PRO hit a tennis ball in SLOW MOTION? Even PROS hardly EVER contact the ball in the absolute dead-center (the "sweet spot") of the racquet; instead the ball (moving at over 100mph) always seems to hit a little OFF-center, so that the racquet TWISTS/DEFLECTS ever-so-slightly, but the HIT is still GOOD... DOES the tennis racquet EXPLODE because of this MIS-HIT? NO !!! WHY NOT??? Because the racquet was DESIGNED to be a bit "FORGIVING"... And so are BOWS, Ryan. WILL the arrow shoot ever-so-slightly LESS-than-PERFECT sometimes? Yup - THAT'S WHY THERE ARE FLETCHINGS, Ryan ;-) Me? I've long UNDERSTOOD that STRINGWALKING introduces IMBALANCE between the limbs for each DISTANCE shot, and that one way to account for this imbalance (if you're going to be shooting say 140 arrows in competition at a given distance like 25m) is to MOVE THE NOCKING POINT on the bowstring a bit. So I've invented a handy little MOVEABLE NOCKING POINT just for this purpose. LINK: studio.th-cam.com/users/videoDMdz2wL2LME/edit Lastly, No one is telling you you're WRONG Ryan. But what I AM going to tell you is that you MISSED THE ACTUALLY IMPORTANT POINTS OF THE VIDEO. CAN YOU hit a target at 50 yards BAREBOW, with the arrow POINT-ON the bullseye? CAN YOU a KID with a 20# bow to hit a target at 50 yards BAREBOW, in 5 simple steps? These are the points. Lastly (again), If you're going to criticize someone else's (free) efforts to teach skills and inspire new archers on TH-cam, then perhaps you'd better have something more than an EMPTY CHANNEL YOURSELF. ;-) Respectfully, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS 🤣🤣🤣 Dude I didn’t miss any point and your whole essay was pointless and believe YOU missed the point. 🤣 Don’t tell anyone they can do it, then their equipment may not be able to actually handle it.. or blow up eventually. Yes “ITS POSSIBLE” but is it right for everyone to use with whatever equipment? NO I wasn’t arguing your damn point.. yes it works but is it best for ANY trad or barebow? No. How do I know you may ask?.. well I’ve blown up a few from stringwalking bows that I thought could handle it. I CAN GET MY 3yo to hit 15 yards with 12lb bow (only draws about 6-7 lbs) and my 11yo can hit 50yd with a 20# bow (compound and recurve) Lastly, appreciate the approach and advice in providing such free content.. but still note there is more to the puzzle and might want to mention something at some point once there is a better understanding as certain trad (1 piece) bows can’t actually handle (over long periods of time) being shot like that. Oh yeah and added some videos… enjoy 🥴
I'm a bit late to these videos but I'm super excited to try this technique for our backyard archery range. We only shoot out to about 20yds but I really like the concept of aiming with the arrow tip on the target and adjusting your string hold point to compensate for distance. This seems to manage all of the variables better or more efficiently compared to "aiming" at some "point of hold" that is not the target yet still appropriate to the bow, the arrow and distance... I've been trying to help my wife learn to shoot her 22# composite recurve with smaller groupings and I haven't had the language to help her... showing her this video and the others on your shooting method gave her several really big "Aha!" moments including how sensitive the release on a 22# bow is... Looking forward to trying these steps next time... I really enjoy your content.
I almost forgot... the casual off hand digs at compound bow shooters are hilarious...Keep those coming! I bet that ruffles some feathers at the ol' hunting club!
TRUTH BE TOLD... I own (and SHOOT) a COMPOUND BOW too. It HAS it's uses - like shooting over 150m. I've even devised a shooting technique SPECIFIC to COMPOUND BOWS with MULTIPLE-PIN FRONT SIGHTS :-O I've named it "Pin-Walking": Pin-Walking is to COMPOUND BOWS what STRINGWALKING is to BAREBOWS - you can START with only a 20m, 30m 40m and 50m pin set... ... and I can show you how to shoot with DEADLY ACCURACY out to 100m and beyond :-O !!! IN FACT, EVERY compound archer buddy I've ever met now USES this shooting (aiming) method and they're now ADDICTED to shooting ONLY at 90m and BEYOND - it's THAT COOL ! CHECK OUT THAT VIDEO :-)
The truth is, it is NOT the method one uses but the practice one has with ANY method and the result are the judge. You practice one method, you become proficient at it, no matter which. Much more valuable would be to share PRINCIPLES that apply to traditional archery independently of the "method". For "As to methods, there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”
DEEP STUFF. You & I are in AGREEMENT on your philosophy, but there is an ERROR in your logic. According to YOUR reasoning, even using a DANGEROUS method or one that CAUSES PHYSICAL INJURY or even one which DELIBERATELY INTRODUCES ERROR INTO THE SHOT are all PERFECTLY "EQUIVALENT" - provided you simply PRACTICE that DANGEROURS or INJURIOUS for FLAWED method enough to either overcome or at least COMPENSATE for the DANGER and the INJURIES and the FLAWS. :-O That IS what you've said, whether you'll admit it or not. But please know you & I absolutely AGREE that there are PRINCIPLES which we should all attempt to DISCOVER and MASTER; I won't go so far as you and say these principles somehow "transcend" the method being used - in truth there ARE genuinely FLAWED methods out there, just as there are SUPERB "shooting machines" like COMPOUND BOWS out there which provide even POOR (method-wise) archers with what I'll term BETTER-accuracy-than-they-DESERVE ;-) So WHAT do PRINCIPLES get you? Hmmm... I'm supposed to come up with something wise or at least profound, but I'm STUMPED. For ME, I've been PREACHING several absolutely CRITICAL "principles" about SIMPLE ARCHERY... ... and all it's gotten me is TONS OF SHIT from INSTINCTIVE ARCHERS and BAREBOW ARCHER who are absolutely BLIND to the FLAWS in their shooting methods, so they cry "HERESY" to my "PRINCIPLES" ;-) And I suspect YOU are about to cry "HERESY" as well ;-) COULD you agree that at least ONE "PRINCIPLE" should be that you should AIM the ARROW IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TARGET? That seems reasonable, yes? And yet BAREBOW archers who ANCHOR AT THEIR CHEEK in fact AREN'T "AIMING THEIR ARROW IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TARGET" - because their anchor point PREVENTS them from looking DIRECTLY down the arrowshaft AT their target :-O Instead they have to aim a little to the left or right - and it's a DIFFERENT AMOUNT FOR EACH DISTANCE :-O So you & I are ALREADY at an impass, because you're banging on about PRINCIPLES while I just demonstrated a CRITICAL PRINCIPLE that absolutely NO BAREBOW ARCHER anchoring at-their-cheek in fact FOLLOWS :-O DAMN - did ANYONE have ANY idea there was SO MUCH DOGMA involved in a SPORT??? It's almost like ARCHERY was a form of RELIGION for some people - NOT ME. For ME Archery is a SCIENCE combined with the SKILL for PRACTICING this science. Enough on this rambling topic - I need sleep ! Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
We, CAN you shoot a 20# and hit a bullseye at 50 yards? YES :-) CAN you KILL A DEER with a 20# bow that you hit at that same 50 yards? UNLIKELY - almost certainly NOT. What is MORE likely is that arrow penetrate only about 2 to 3 inches AT MOST - THIS IS WHY IT'S ILLEGAL IN ALL STATES TO HUNT WITH LESS THAN 40# ! Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
me encanta cuando aciertas lo contento que te pones, me gusta tu actitut No cambies Marc salut josep --------------- Resultados de traducción I love it when you get it right, how happy you are, I like your attitude Don't change marc salut josep
I'm GLAD you enjoy my videos and attitude Josep! I'm also pleased I have viewers from Spain ! Now you have me curious - WHERE do archers get to shoot in SPAIN? DO you have ANY public parks - or even empty fields - where you can shoot? Just so you know, even here in the northeastern Illinois - the "Bread Basket" of the United States - many bow hunters still simply go shoot on some farmer's farmland; they don't shoot at any public archery ranges either. Do YOU have access to any farmland to shoot on?
VOGTLAND OUTDOORS hace 4 días I'm GLAD you enjoy my videos and attitude Josep! I'm also pleased I have viewers from Spain ! Now you have me curious - WHERE do archers get to shoot in SPAIN? DO you have ANY public parks - or even empty fields - where you can shoot? Just so you know, even here in the northeastern Illinois - the "Bread Basket" of the United States - many bow hunters still simply go shoot on some farmer's farmland; they don't shoot at any public archery ranges either. Do YOU have access to any farmland to shoot on?@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS
VOGTLAND OUTDOORS hace 4 días I'm GLAD you enjoy my videos and attitude Josep! I'm also pleased I have viewers from Spain ! Now you have me curious - WHERE do archers get to shoot in SPAIN? DO you have ANY public parks - or even empty fields - where you can shoot? Just so you know, even here in the northeastern Illinois - the "Bread Basket" of the United States - many bow hunters still simply go shoot on some farmer's farmland; they don't shoot at any public archery ranges either. Do YOU have access to any farmland to shoot on?
solo se puede cazar con luz natural y en cotos de caza particulares o publicos pagando, que yo sepa no se puede disparar en jardines parques y tierras de cultivo, otra cosa que no ten vean ++++++++ You can only hunt with natural light and in private or public hunting grounds paying, as far as I know, you can't shoot in gardens, parks and farmland, something else that you don't have.
Whats up friend .. I'm new to trad archery I have a martin hunter 55 pound and wondered how bad arrow length would affect this method. I have a 28 inch drw but am shooting 30 inch gold tips at the moment. How bad does length affect it?
Greetings & Merry Christmas Jerrod ! SHORT ANSWER: ARROW LENGTH only affects your arrow's overall "STIFFNESS" - NOT this shooting method :-) FEEL FREE to try The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD with ANY arrows you wish ! THAT ALL SAID - I'm STILL curious about your arrows, because all-too-often guys that shoot even 55# bows (I have lots of them) end up shooting arrows that are WAY TOO STIFF. HERE'S IMPORTANT STUFF YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND (and few people talk about): 1. ARROW STIFFNESS ISN'T determined ONLY by the "spine" of your arrow !! 2. ARROWS STIFFNESS IS determined by 4 properties of your arrow: 1. The arrow's SPINE: - typically given as a number like "340" or "500" or "600") - sometimes given as a weight (in "grains") per inch - sort of a measure of Density 2. The arrow's LENGTH: - the LONGER the arrow the MORE it BENDS when you PUSH on it from both ends; - the SHORTER the arrow the LESS it BENDS when you PUSH on it from both ends; 3. The arrow's ARROWTIP WEIGHT (and even SHAPE): - the HEAVIER the arrowtip the MORE the entire arrow BENDS at release; - the LIGHTER the arrowtip the LESS the entire arrow BENDS at release; 4. The arrow SHAFT DIAMETER: - a THICKER shaft diameter tends to BEND LESS at release; - a NARROWER shaft diameter tends to BEND MORE at release IF you're shooting 30" arrows that have been SHORTENED (just a bit) from (say) 31.5" (typical) then if all other properties stay the same, your arrows will simply be a bit STIFFER than the UN-CUT version of your arrows. Follow me so far? You can INCREASE the "apparent stiffness" of your arrows by simply INCREASING the ARROWTIP WEIGHT :-O. You'll know when you've achieve an "OPTIMAL" arrowtip weight when your bow starts to shoot "HAPPY SHOTS" I know I know I know - I was all TECHNICAL to start, and now I'm talking about a "happy" bow... But you WILL feel it. The bow will simply SHOOT BETTER. You'll notice it IMMEDIATELY. IDEA: Go buy yourself a few sets of 6 field points - IN DIFFERENT WEIGHTS: - a set of 100 gr points; - a set of 125 gr points; - a set of 150 gr points; - a set of 200 gr points
Greetings Tharanga! Thanks for writing in !... SHORT ANSWER: The moment you shoot SPLIT FINGER at SHORT DISTANCES you're FORCED to now aim (where you see-the-arrowtip) at something that ISN'T ACTUALLY ON THE TARGET ITSELF :-O ... For me, this completely DEFEATS a KEY GOAL of my entire shooting method, which is to provide a Shooting Method where you're NOT forced to figure out how to aim at imaginary-points-in-space :-| ... The reason this "Gap Shooting" style BOTHERS me is that it's SO EASILY "FOOLED" by CHANGES in your SIGHT PICTURE: - if your TARGET changes in size (eg large buck vs small doe at the SAME distance), you WILL BE FOOLED, unless you practice over & over & over on MYRIAD target shapes and sizes; I see this happen ALL THE TIME when I'm shooting with my other "traditional" archer buddies. Even when we're shooting AT THE SAME DISTANCE (100yds) we've been shooting at for YEARS, I noticed that CHANGES in the TARGET SIZE fool them. - if your BACKGROUND changes (eg shooting with a hill behind your target when you've trained on a flat), you'll be FOOLED... - heck, even if the LANE in a TARGET ARCHERY TOURNAMENT ISN'T what you're used to, YOU'LL BE FOOLED - I saw this with my OWN EYES at the last tournament, and I was blown away by this epiphany. with MY shooting method, I don't even need to LOOK at the target for any kind of a visual "cue"; if it's 18m, then I look down at my hand, quickly measure a Nocking Point-to-Drawing Point "gap" of 3 1/2 fingers, then look up , put the arrowtip RIGHT SMACK ON THE BULLSEYE and LET FLY - there's NOTHING in front of, alongside, or behind the target to EVERY FOOL MY METHOD :-) Hope this clarifies your understanding of the power of this the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD :) Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Happy New Year Benjamin ! TELL ME MORE - let's get you sorted out ! WHAT make/model/draw weight is your BOW? WHAT is your DRAW LENGTH? WHAT length/spine/arrowtip weight (in grains) are your ARROWTIPS? THEN TELL ME: - WHAT have you determined is your 20m "INITIAL GAP"? - WHAT have you determined is your 10m "INTERVAL GAP"? - WHICH distance are you shooting WELL at? What is your GAP for that distance? - WHICH distance (20m?) is giving you TROUBLE? WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON !!! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Greetings Ed, I hunt with a 50# Martin Jaguar and another customer ILF riser with 50# limbs: THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THIS: - FLATTER trajectories at ALL distances from 5m to 100m; hence - LARGER 20m gap (your "starter" gap) because of the extra draw weight; and - SMALLER 10m "interval gap"; typically for my 50# bows my 20m gap is 3 fingers, and my 10m Interval Gap is 1/2 finger It's SUPRISING how CONSISTENT this is across ALL BOW TYPES, REGARDLESS of type: recurve, longbow, English longbow, flatbow, Olympic Recurve, even TURKISH bows :-O (I own several) Give it a try, and report back your findings. For ME, the ADDITIONAL DRAW WEIGHT buys me a lot MORE CONSISTENCY at longer distances (70m, 80m, 90m) Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Nice technique man. I will try this tomorrow. By the way, I'm a traditional bow archer. Do you think it will work with traditional bows as well. I'm talking about Mongolian bows..
Greeting Ajim ! ACTUALLY I have a VIDEO on using this very VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD on several of my OWN "asian" bows from AP Archery - a 30# bow and a 40# bow - watch the VIDEO !!! Apart form compensating for a LACK of an ARROW SHELF by "canting" the bow slightly, the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD CAN in fact be used QUITE SUCCESSFULLY with ASIAN-style BOWS !!! In fact, I'm right now working with a local machine shot to FABRICATE a CUSTOM EXTENSION - a small HANDLE with an ARROW SHELF - which fits right in the middle of my AP Archery TAKEDOWN Asian bows :-O ... WATCH for that video in the near future - I'M looking forward to it as well ! - Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
We, DEPENDS on the DRAW WEIGHT of each BOW: For a 40# bow every ADDITIONAL draw of 1" farther than 28" will give you about 3 MORE lbs, so with my 31.5 in Draw Length I will pull a 40# bow out to 50# For a 20# bow every additional draw of 1" farther than 28" will give you about 1.5 MORE lbs, so me drawing my daughter's 20# out to 31.5 inches will a Draw Weight of only about 25#. Hope this helps, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Hi Robert ! Hmmm... how long, how long, how long... how long indeed! I'm 58 years old... The ONLY limb I've EVER damaged was on a 55# Martin Sabre Recurve over 10 years ago - and I was ONLY drawing it MEDITERRANEAN style; I HADN'T even BEGUN shooting 3-fingers under, much less 3-fingers OVER :-O Let's be REALISTIC about all of the "extreme" language you're using: 1. The vast vast vast MAJORITY of bows in fact are structurally ASYMMETRIC - one limb is LONGER than the other; one limb is STRONGER than the other, and "tillering" is an attempt to "balance" the upper limb against the lower limb; 2. This tillering can ONLY be done for a SINGLE drawing position, be it 1-finger-over or 3-fingers under, but NOT BOTH. EVER. I hope we can agree on this, otherwise there's something you don't understand, and this conversation is pointless; 3. Assuming (for now) that most commercial bows have in fact been tillered for 1-finger-over... YOU must then accept that ANYONE who is drawing 3-fingers-under is - like me - loading their limbs ASYMMETRICALLY; NOW COMES THE "REALITY" PART... 4. ASSUMING 3-fingers-under is "ACCEPTABLE " to the vast vast majority of COMMERCIAL BOW MANUFACTURERS (since they DON'T have labels or stickers claiming "NO warranties if 3-fingers-under), this means the bow has been DESIGNED to accept this "variation" in drawing; The BIG question is: HOW MUCH DOES THIS REPRESENT??? ANSWER is SIMPLE GEOMETRY and SIMPLE MATH: 67 inch bow... 1/2 inch fingerwidth... A shift of 1 finger = 1/2 inch over 67 inches or 1/134 of the length of the bow; in percentages this is LESS THAN a 0.7% CHANGE :-O... Pretty damned small, you must agree... THAT IS, even the MANUFACTURERS have DESIGNED their bows to be able to handle a 1% change in what I'll term "Draw Point Offset" (offset from "balanced" or "ideal"). MY most "extreme" regular StringWalking "gap" is 3 fingers, or 1.5 inches below the arrow. HOW MUCH "EXTREME" does THIS represent? ANSWER: more simple math; 67 inch bow... 3 fingers = 1.5 inches over 67 inches, or 2% of the length of this "medium" sized bow. For my LONGBOW (73 inches), this is an even SMALLER percentage. BIG QUESTION: DO you think most Commercial Bow Manufacturers fabricate their bows with only a 2% SAFETY MARGIN???? I think not. The entire planet thinks NOT. I WOULDN'T say this Safety Margin is 2X (200%) or 3x (300%), but I can assure you... it's BIGGER than 2% ;-) So while YOU'RE trying to EXAGGERATE and post my StringWalking as "EXTREME"... ... my (indisputable) MATH says I'm MORE LIKELY operating a measly 2% outside of the "neutral" point the bow was designed for. If you're shooting ARROWS with SPINES outside this same 2% range-of-ideal, I could argue YOU'RE operating FURTHER outside than I am. If you're bowstring is an inch LONGER or SHORTER than 2% of "nominal", I sould argue YOU'RE operating FURHTER outside the DESIGN RANGE than I am. I'm NOT FORCING you to adopt my shooting method. EVERY single shooting method I know has both STRENGTHS and WEAKENESSES, including the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD. What I DO hope for is that people with ingrained habits and biases DARE to RELAX them for a bit. What is TRADITION for YOU the past 100 years was no doubt RADICAL 1,000 years ago ;-). You might be rather surprised with the result. With less than 300 subscribers since I started this channel a few months ago, I have LOTS & LOTS of people IMPRESSED with the method, and happily ADOPTING IT - NOT because they're stupid or ignorant - quite the opposite; they're intelligent, thoughtful people not constrained by bias, and willing to accept any of the "risks" involved for the "payoff" of RANGE and ACCURACY. TRY THIS: take your LEAST-favorite bow - the one that has always always always given you TROUBLE with your CURRENT shooting method... ... and GIVE this VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD a try. Be honest. Be objective. Then come back here and tell us what you ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED (not what you THINK might happen), and if you're surprised by an increase in accuracy at 20m, 30m, 40m and 50m... be cool enough to say so. But please DON'T comment (particularly NEGATIVELY) on something that you clearly haven't even bothered to TRY - it simply makes you look like a "troll" spoiling for a fight, and I sense you're waaaaay more intelligent than that. Way back when you were young you heard about SEX, didn't you? You HEARD it could be DANGEROUS... You HEARD it could be "EXTREME"... You HEARD it could GET YOU KILLED... But you still JUMPED at your first CHANCE - yes? ;-) Respectfully, -Mark | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Can see where you are coming from with your shooting system putting extreme tiller on the limbs would be my only concern .May be better with ILF limbs could adjust the tiller more.
NEVER - it's a 22# RECURVE BOW !!! IMAGINE THE EXTREME DRAW you've have to achieve even have the REMOTE POSSIBILITY of making a set of 22# limbs "explode" :-O You'd have to have a 42 inch to 45 inch DRAW LENGTH to even have a CHANCE of stressing 22# limbs to the point of failure !! I don't mind skeptics and nay-sayers, but you guys have to be REALISTIC and dare to use a bit of SCIENCE instead of mere (apparently UN-informed) OPINION. YOU simply blurted out your skepticism WITHOUT ever once considering just how SUPPLE a 70 inch 22# recurve bow actually IS :-| ... ON TOP OF THAT, you're using the TERM "tiller" INCORRECTLY, as it's a measure of the BOW AT REST, NOT AT FULL DRAW :-O ... LET'S DO SOME SIMPLE MATH and see just how EXTREME my TILLER (difference between top & bottom) at FULL DRAW - just for fun... At my CLOSEST I used a gap of 3 fingers UNDER the bow... - 3 fingers equals 2 INCHES exactly - The bow is 70 inches (my daughter is 6ft-1in volleyball jock) SO - THIS means I'm drawing 2 INCHES off-center out of 70 INCHES, or 2/70 = a mere 2.8% from "normal" - ARE YOU CALLING A CHANGE OF 2.8% "EXTREME" ???? and that's NOT really what's happening to the TILLER - let's look at THAT: - SAY for now that the tiller is ZERO (the distance from TOP of riser to bowstring -- the distance from the BOTTOM of riser to bowstring = 0 ) - SAY I moved my nocking point a mere 2 inches DOWN from center - let's use GEOMETRY to calculate the change in TILLER: THE PUNCH LINE IS THIS: The "tiller" (again it's WRONG USE of the term, but I'm just playing along with your ignorance) between the top & bottom of my bow when drawn 2 inches below center is LESS THAN 1/4 INCH !!!!! PLEASE notice I'm NOT deleting your silly comment, but I'm NOT being polite either. Your comment is ignorance trying to mask as some sort of hard-core bow expert, which clearly you're not. FUN DARE: Go pull your OWN recurve bow 2 inches below center and have someone MEASURE YOUR BOW and its "extreme" tiller. Then come back and tell us what horrible numbers YOU got. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: IF my drawing my bow back 3 fingers below center is SO DANGEROUS and PUSHING THE BOW DESIGN TO ABSOLUTE LIMITS... ... then drawing with 1 finger ABOVE the arrow (aka MEDITERRANEAN GRIP) is already HALF of that VERY SAME "extreme" distance, so it too MUST BE DANGEROUS ?? Do you SEE how SILLY your thinking is? DO you NEED to be careful drawing ANY bow OFF-CENTER? YES - of COURSE. If you think I'm saying ANY off-center drawing is OK, I'm NOT. But what I AM saying is that YOU'RE ALL OF YOU WRONG WHEN YOU WHINE ABOUT 3 FINGERS BELOW THE NOCK BEING DANGEROUS - it's just stupid. -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS really not sure whether you are trying to inform me or insult me .The fact is you are only just replying now to a comment l made 12 months ago .Has it taken this long to work out the mathematics you qoute lol.You shoot however you want it matters not to me
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS you derided me in your comments while stating in at the top of your page to keep things civil .l see now you have taken my silly advice about tiller so much so you have made a video which clearly shows that you know very little about how much tiller can affect the action of your bow.
Great fun, and I like your method, but to place reasonable in 3d tournaments you need to put every arrow inside a 5 inch circle out to about 33 yards without knowing the distance, you have to guess, so you need a holds for 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 ,21, 22. 23 and so on out to 33 or so. and to score 10s you'll have to shoot way better than you did here, every arrow with no practice arrow..and to shoot up you need to hit 1 1/2" circle Then there are guys there shooting 1000 arrows a week for 10+ years shooting 6 to 8 up on 25 targets.. the x,'s are about an 1 1/2" circle. I challenge you to shoot your best bare bow, 10 targets 10 arrows at several unknown distances out to 30/33 yds use a 3 inch circle see how many you can shoot inside the circle. Arrow in the circle is 1 point outside the circle zero points... to be considered great you need a score of 10. Very good would be 9 being just good would be 7/8.. 5/6 would be just ok 3/4 not that good..1/2 you be just lucky. I thought I was a good bow man until I entered the 3d world, then I realized how not so good I really am, guys snap shooting a bare bow 256, and I'm struggling to get 200, shot dozens of real deer dead not a problem, staying in the 10 ring on a 3d course is a serious challenge. Standing in a creek off balance shooting up hill at a 5" circle 10 ring on a 3d deer target stuck between 2 trees that are 2 foot apart at an unknown distance. Good luck with that. Those guys are darned great..
Greetings Joracer1 ! Great to read from you... but you kind of miss the entire point of my shooting method :-O The reason I created the method you see is to provide - as with compound bows & olympic recurve bows - with simple and practical, even "scientific" accuracy, thus ELIMINATING the need for the kind of endless (and often easily "tricked") practicing using "traditional" (I've come to despise this term for this technique) I'm NOT sure which 3D tournaments YOU shoot, but in nearly ALL of them within 150 miles of where I live, the yardages are literally MARKED, or rangefinders are permitted :-O... That said, I DO have "gaps" for ranges from 5m all the way out to 80m, in increments of about 2m. Normally I wouldn't go so far as to claim 1m increments, but ultimately it will come down to whatever a single wrap of serving can get you at any given distance. And CALCULATING these gaps are TRIVIAL with my StringWalking method :-), because you still ONLY have to remember 2 numbers: 1. your "20m" Gap; and 2. your "10m Interval" Gap From there you simply use simple fractions of finger-widths to get down to gaps for even minute changes in distance. LET ME PROVIDE YOU AN EXAMPLE: SAY my 20m Gap is 3 1/2 fingers, and my 10m Interval Gap is 1 finger NOW say I'm at your 3D shoot, and realize that I need a 22m gap: I START at my 20m Gap - 3 1/2 fingers below the arrow's nocking point; I need 2 MORE meters, so here's how I calculate this in literally 2 seconds: - a 1 finger additional gap will give me 10m - a half finger will give me 5m; - a quarter finger (half of a half finger) will give me 2.5m, SO... I INCREASE my 3 1/2 fingers by 1/4 finger... and I'm ready to shoot 22m, with an error of only about 1 inch at that distance :-O And I did this in 2 SECONDS :-O !!!! LET's do ANOTHER distance - say 33m: - start with 3 1/2 fingers (20m) - REDUCE that gap by 1 finger to 2 1/2 fingers - now you're already at 30m :-O - REDUCE that gap by 1/4 finger (remember, a half-of-a-half, which is TRIVIAL to see), and you're ready for 32.5m! - YOU'LL have MORE to worry about with your RELEASE than with the fraction-of-an-inch error in your range ;-) AND with each of these ranges, using the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD you'll be placing the arrowtip POINT-ON at BOTH of these distances ! SEE HOW SIMPLE and EASY and ACCURATE this SHOOTING METHOD (and STRINGWALKING METHOD) IS ??? NO decades-of-practice - I can & do literally teach people to shoot well in MINUTES :-O And by all means FEEL FREE to mock me about my current accuracy; I've told countless viewers that I'm in the middle of recovering from both abdominal surgery AND my first-ever bout of TARGET PANIC, so you're not going to make me feel bad as I continue to make my comeback :-) ... TELL YOU WHAT - IF you're within 200 miles of North Aurora, IL, I WILL come visit you even before summer - and we will shoot together; NOT "AGAINST" each other, but ALONGSIDE each other. And YOU will bring along 1 "NOVICE" archer. What I will show you is that I can not only USE my shooting method to shoot well alongside you... ... but I'll have your NOVICE shooting almost as well as me (or you!) in the first few minutes we're shooting ! THAT'S THE POINT OF MY METHOD Joracer! - fast, simple, PRACTICAL ACCURACY, so new archers FALL IN LOVE WITH ARCHERY, INSTEAD of being DISCOURAGED from archery by YOUR claims that they'll need to shoot "a thousand arrows a week for years" before they can ever be any good ;-O ! Looking forward to hearing from you and where we're going to meet! Cheerio -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS im not very good, but good enough to hunt whitetail deer proficiently out to 30 yds. I shoot almost as good instinctive as with a compound out to 20/25 yards...and to a degree shooting a compound bow is all in the bow, until you get to 3d, any one can take my compound bow and hit the target or say kill a buck at 25 yards, but the shooter takes it from a 6" group down to a 1" group, my buddy Steve can shoot his bow and put 5 arrows in a 1" group at 50 yards, we shoot the same weight and draw length and I'm 8 to 10 group with his bow, he can take my bow and shoot a 2 inch 5 shot group at 50yds, and I shoot the same bow and shoot a 8" group. Its all in the archer.... no I believe you got a great system it's called string walking you can use fingers some do, some have markes on their tab... it works great. many shoot that way. Its great for new archers...all 3d tournaments here are colored pegs or flags, there are several classes , 40, 50. Hunter, several kids classes, senior known and unknown, bare bow, which is unknown and 30yards max.. let's say you shoot 40yds unknown, you stand on the flag look at the target a deer, Bob cat, elk, bear, or what ever, you have to guess that yardage (the hardest part) then prepare to shoot, make your shot, it is scored..you're in a group and you keep silent, if you speak about the shot or signal anyone you both will be disqualified. Now if you shoot known you get to use a range finder then make the shot. Let's say you shoot hunter class, that's almost the same as unknown 40, without fancy stabilizers you stand on lets say a red peg to shoot that yardage could be, 18 to 42 yards... and with a bow if you misjudged your yards. Say you shoot thinking its 29 and its really 39 you will miss the whole target and get zero points and probably lose your arrow. The bare bow class is unknown 30, that's why instinctive will win everytime, because he knows subconsciously where the arrow is going. Because he shoots 1000 arrows every week, shoots at small targets at unknown yardages, can shoot a flying bird or thrown target, in 3d the finger walker will misjudge the distance and loose. Where the instinctive shooter will know within .001 seconds where to hold. Its great to help new archers get started and your methods are the best way to keep newbys shooting. Me and you have a different standards with what you call accurate. In the hunting woods a deer won't let you take 3 shots before you hit the kill zone. Deadly accurate you say, I thought you meant as in you killed something something to eat i hope, by putting an arrow through the kill zone. I didn't think you could mean just fling arrows in the general vicinity until you finally hit it. Or I just completely misunderstand the term "deadly accurate " and no I don't teach youngsters or starters you must hit a small target on your 1st try,or by their 100th try. They must have fun and be encouraged along the way.
Hi Murat ! SHORT ANSWER: YES - lighter bow means LARGER "starter" gap (for 20m) and LARGER finger-width for each 10m distance change. IF YOU WATCH the video where I shoot my daughter's 22# bow... try listening to what I call to start. I THINK you'll be safe starting here: ============================ 20m: 2-finger gap under arrow Each 10m interval: 1 full finger THAT MEANS: 20m: 2 fingers UNDER arrow 30m: 1 fingers UNDER arrow 40m: 0 fingers (index finger TOUCHING arrow) 50m: 1 finger OVER arrow 60m: 2 fingers OVER arrow 70m: 3 fingers OVER arrow That's a pretty darned-good starting place. Try it, and come back & share with others ! -Mark
@@muratgokirmak6132 Thank you for the compliment my "place" - are you describing my HOUSE or the KISHWAUKEE ARCHERS CLUB or the BLACKWELL ARCHERY RANGE where I often shoot my videos? ...
your accuracy is no good as using this same method, but anchoring beside my face and i can get more accurate out to 50 yd than your getting, i string walk and use the tip of the arrow for aiming, and anchor beside my face at the jaw line, and i find i am quite accurate, any error is my fault for either shooting too fast or not paying attention, but when i am doing everything right i get a grouping of about 12" at 50 yd, which is not to bad for barebow, I shoot 28 lb bow left handed,
Hi Peter... Couple of things: 1. I'm shooting a 59# bow, so holding the draw while TALKING to a camera is HARDER than you might think. Go watch a professional competition, and you WON'T see those guys trying to TALK while they're shooting... 2. I'm working against my very first case of Target Panic in my life -it's been very discouraging, particularly because this is the year I decided to try and teach the (simple) method I use for shooting out at even long distances. 3. I'm still healing from a (kite sailing) injury last year (summer 2019), and it's slow going. 4. I'll beat you at anything beyond 50m because that's where CHEEK anchor PREVENTS you from putting your arrow on the target, and suddenly you're GAP shooting beyond that. I created this method for that very reason - I was CONVINCED barebow archers COULD shoot at accurately as Olympic Recurve archers could shoot, which means 50m, 70m, 90m. 5. If you're younger than me and stronger than me (I'm 58), then I'd EXPECT you to be perhaps a bit more accurate... maybe. IMAGINE finally deciding to spend time TEACHING a method only AFTER you're already OLD and INJURED and have TARGET PANIC. That's me. Here. Now. And enduring the inevitable trolls who feel the need to talk about how superior they are. Hopefully YOU'RE out there spending time making video to TEACH too? I'll go look for them now - BRB... JUST CAME BACK from YOUR channel - there's nothing there. Nothing. NO videos of YOU putting yourself out there, recording (even on bad days), trying to each, trying to encourage, NOT editing (so people even see your MISSES)... nothing. Just trolling and commenting on OTHER people's effort. There's nothing I can do for you. Feel free to unsubscribe :-) ...
STILL PONDERING your reply Peter... COMMENTS: 1. I too anchored on my cheek for most of my adult life; BUT 2. In the past few years I realized by anchoring that HIGH above my chin in fact I'm LOSING RANGE - range that I GET BACK when I anchor UNDER my chin like Olympic Recurve archers :-O 3. Ever WONDER why most 3-D clubs "handicap" barebow archers - letting them shoot CLOSER to the targets than Compound and Olympic Recurve archers? I got SO annoyed by this that it was PART of the reason I ultimately developed this method ;-) 4. You're shooting a 28# bow, so I'm guessing you're a youth. That said, I'll share something I've learned about barebow with lighter-weight bows: they're actually LESS "forgiving" about how perfect your RELEASE has to be; that is, it's far easy to JERK your release with a LIGHTER weight bow than with a stronger one :-O 5. SUGGESTION: if possible, try increasing your draw weight (even if you have to BORROW a 40# bow) and try your method again. I won't be a bit surprised if you're even MORE pleased with your groups, because now your bowstring will want to PULL out of your hand without slipping right or left. 6. TELL me what happens to your own method when shooting at 60m, 70m 80m and 90m - ARE you STILL able to put the tip of the arrow ON the target? Likely NOT. In fact, I'm SKEPTICAL any 28# bow anchored at the cheek can be placed ON-TARGET at even the 50yds (45m) you're describing - you're literally defying ballistics if you tell me you ARE putting the tip of the arrow on the CENTER of the target at 50 yds with a 28# bow ;-) Enough for now - waiting to hear from you, or hopefully see a video. I've subscribed to your channel in case you wish to show some shooting :-) ...
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS wow 59 #bow and you speaking while shooting.. you are very strong.. we are learning 28# it's not possible hold 10 seconds without shake it.. wow. I recommend that use royal gelly, bee pollen and yoghurt live 100 without any health problems.. long live VOGTLAND.
@@muratgokirmak6132 You SLAY me (make me smile & laugh) with your comment about "long live VOGTLAND" :-O ... GLAD you like the channel. Maybe you'll be happy to know I'm also switching DOWN to only a 45# bow for the remainder of our outdoor league season at KISHWAUKEE ARCHERS CLUB in Sycamore, IL USA (check 'em out), because shooting the 59# bow for 36 shots in competition is actually a little tiring :-| ...
Hi Peter. Please see my earlier comments. FRIENDLY CHALLENGE (I enjoy these) ARE you ANYWHERE (within 4 hours) of Chicago? I'd ENJOY driving to your range and we'll shoot toe-to-toe from 10m out to 100m, and see who's got the better method. I've got video footage. It's not undocumented comments bragging about technique. It's uncut, imperfect, coming from a middle-aged, injured guy with a technique that can & does make open-minded people better archers. You? You... have an empty TH-cam Channel. And some comments about your skill. ;-) PLEASE tell me you're close enough for a friendly bout - we'd both enjoy it :-) - Mark in North Aurora IL
LAST comment of the night. LOTS of great boxers have OLD coaches who know how to DESCRIBE and TEACH a great punch, even if they themselves CAN'T THROW that punch any more. Does that make the coach a LIAR or a BRAGGART? :-| Watching for you to post your (uncut) videos of your own performance with NO warm-up in FREEZING fall/spring weather where you show me up ;-) at ALL distances...
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Hi there i appreciate your comments and no i am not trolling you, i have in fact tried your method and i understand how after getting the eye line correct how accurate it is, i use a 28lb bow because i am 60 and injured my shoulder going up in weight too fast, and have only been shooting for about 5 years, i have just jumped from 28 to 32 lbs, and as this lock down thing is in effect i cannot try it out at distance, which i plan to do, i am using my normal method and alternating with your method, but i am only shooting ten yds, in my garden so not a really good test yet, but when i get back to the club and can use the field then i will see how it fairs, i find getting the eye line correct is the biggest problem so far as i naturally shoot with my other eye and with your method i have to change that, i am a left handed shooter, but nothing i cant adapt to, i enjoy your method as something new, and potentially accurate, but till i get out there i cant assess it properly, when i get the eye line right i find it very accurate, so there is scope for using this method in distance shooting, mind you i will have to buy a split tab as i use a one piece and cannot go above the nock point, as in a split finger for further distances, but i will get one and practice your method to give it a true work out, so many thanks for your input and sorry you thought i was trolling you, kind regards Peter
I agree. The "system" does work (most people just call it stringwalking) but a spray of arrows across a 20 yard target is hardly accurate. There are lots of people that can put their arrows into a paper cup at 20 yards. Gotta admire the infectious enthusiasm though.
@@gblan The best bare bow shots in the world are on average grouping about 6" at 20 yds. Yes, sometimes they will shoot groups the size of the opening of a paper cup, but that is uncommon. See the Lancaster bare bow championship videos on YT. Pls. note this is with full out tournament bows.
OUCH - you DIDN'T pick up on the tongue-in-cheek humor of "DEADLY" accuracy... with a 20# BOW ??? And I thought I was laying it on pretty thick ;-) And yet... IF that WAS a deer at 30m, 40m and 50m, they absolutely WOULD have been KILL SHOTS, of that I have ZERO DOUBT. Would they HEART SHOTS? Nope. Except the 50m shot WOULD be. Would they be KILL SHOTS? At 30m - YES At 40m - YES ! at 50m - YES ! Finally, you just saw a guy take hits daughter's 20# recurve bow and shoot KILL SHOTS using HUNTTING ARROWS at 30m, 40m and 50m using a simple 5-step BAREBOW method he regularly teaches to KIDS... ... and you're giving me SHIT? Can YOU do this ? (note: BRACE YOURSELF, if you TRY this then you're about to learn a HARSH lesson that LIGHT DRAWEIGHT BOWS are far far far far LESS "forgiving" than HEAVY draw weight bows. If you DO try this, you'll come back here & APOLOGIZE for your insolence ;-) ) BTW - I checked YOUR channel: - 4 subscribers (your family?) - ZERO VIDEOS, so you CAN CRITICIZE the (genuine, untouched) efforts of OTHERS brave enough to upload videos of themselves on TH-cam, but you CAN'T find the courage to make even a SINGLE VIDEO of your OWN abilities... WHY IS THAT? What are YOU AFRAID OF? There are enough armchair quarterbacks in the world. QUOTE FROM TEDDY ROOSEVELT THAT YOU NEED TO MEMORIZE: www.goodreads.com/quotes/7-it-is-not-the-critic-who-counts-not-the-man (hint: YOU are the "cold & timid soul who knows neither victory nor defeat", NOT ME) Cheerio, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
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Amazing...thanks for posting
Steven !
FEEL FREE to share any recent EXPERIENCES you're having - I'm here to make you fall in love with barebow...
... but STILL enjoy ALL OTHER FORMS of archery as well !
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Thank you
The moment you mentioned Olympic style aiming you had me hooked. Off to find your shooting tutorial
Greetings Robert and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
Please know this:
This shooting method ISN'T "magic", nor is it a PlayStation "cheat code";
It WON'T make you a CHAMPION ARCHER with ZERO practice.
What it WILL do is provide a PRACTICAL method for AIMING your arrows which DOESN'T introduce unnecessary ERROR;
What it WILL do is provide a PRACTICAL method for RANGING your arrows surprisingly accurately from 5m out to 50m, and even out to 100m by only requiring that you remember 2 simple numbers like "3 finger-widths" and "1/2 finger-width).
You will get SURPRISING accuracy within your very first 5 to 10 arrows at distances like 10m and 20m.
But YOU WILL NEED TO PRACTICE REGULARLY in order to accomplish 2 critical things for excellence:
1. you need to BUILD YOUR SHOOTING muscles; and
2. you need to PERFECT making a "small-motion" release with your fingers.
With all the things going FOR this method, you CAN still "screw it up" by getting tired and DRAWING POORLY and by RELEASING POORLY..
A bit of regular practice in order to get STRONG (and therefore CONSISTENT) and SMOOTH (and therefore ACCURATE) is a SMALL price to pay, don't you think?
I'm very much looking forward to hearing from you in the near future !
Best of luck !
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Tried out the technique this weekend and I struggled with the aiming component. Too use to sights and just battling to get my head wrapped around aiming using the Arrow Tip.
Always afraid that I am going to shoot too high.
Greetings Rdosramos and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
Glancing at your own channel and your avatar, you look like you're reasonably fit (better than me) ;-)
So I'll assume you're shooting a 40# recurve bow of some kind.
TIP:
START with SHORT distances and LARGE stringwalking gaps; this ensures you will always shoot SHORT at least to start, so it's easy to find your arrows while you're trying to find your 2 "magic numbers of stringwalking".
A pretty-darned-good starting point for a 40# bow is this:
- your 20m "Initial Gap" should be around 3 finger-widths; and
- your 10m "Interval Gap" should be about 1/2 finger-width.
So start with a 10m target and a 3 1/2 finger gap, and these 5 steps:
STEP 1: SET your (stringwalking) gap; this determines arrow elevation which determines DISTANCE;
STEP 2: ANCHOR UNDER your CHIN (NOT "alongside" your chin at all !);
STEP 3: SIGHT down the LEFT EDGE of your bowstring; this is your REAR SIGHT;
STEP 4: PLACE the ARROWTIP on the center of the bullseye; this is your FRONT SIGHT;
STEP 5: MAKE a "small-motion" release; that is, try to straighten ONLY your outer-most fingertip, so there is as LITTLE "error" as possible being introduced into the bowstring as you release
If your shot is TOO SHORT, then NARROW your gap by 1/4 finger increments until you're hitting the bullseye;
If your shot is TOO LONG (unlikely) then WIDEN your gap by 1/4 finger increments until you're hitting the bullseye;
I PROMISE YOU, you will only need about 3 shot before you're hitting the gold (bullseye) consistently at 10m !
Waiting to hear from you soon!
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
PS - do you live within 3 HOURS of AURORA IL, USA ?
If yes, then I will DRIVE and VISIT you and we will SHOOT together - it'll be FUN !
Let me know.
-Mark
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Thank you for all the details. I am going to try it out this Sunday at the range. I re watched your video and I realized that one of the big issues is the fact that my bow is a 30 lbs bow (its a 20 year old Samick bow which still shoots like new). I have been planning to upgrade my bow this year so the plan is to move towards a 40 to 45 lbs bow with a ILF limbs so I can upgrade when needed.
I also think I was lining up the arrow point and the strong incorrectly. I think I was lining up with the right hand side of the string and not the left. 🤦♂
Yeah would love to shot with you but I am based in Ireland but would love to get in contact with you about shooting and maybe do some videos to help promote the technique.
Really enjoyed your video and just subbed, I am thinking or getting my first bow but not sure whether to go recurve or compound , think your video is swaying me to recurve. Cheers
Greetings & Happy New Year Lordollops1 !
FEEL FREE TO GET BOTH a RECURVE & A COMPOUND (don't choose)!...
... BUT at some point - because of The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD - you're going to ABANDON the compound because it's SO MUCH COOLER BEING ABLE TO SHOOT BAREBOW (ALMOST) AS ACCURATELY OTHER ARCHERS SHOOT THEIR COMPOUND BOWS :-O !!!
Let's GET YOU ON THAT PATH !
TELL ME about the RECURVE BOW you've purchased:
BOW HEIGHT
BOW DRAW WEIGHT
YOUR DRAW LENGTH
LENGTH OF YOUR ARROWS
WEIGHT (in "grains") of the FIELD TIPS on your ARROWS; and
THE "SPINE" (part of the "stiffness") of your ARROWS
Then tell me what DISTANCES you want to get GOOD AT:
10m (not likely)
20m (absolutely)
30m (likely)
40m (this is SEXY)
50m (this is where NATIONAL CLASS ARCHERS COMPETE!)
60m (this is where WORLD CLASS ARCHERS COMPETE)
70m (few fear to tread - but YOU CAN and EASILY !
80m (fewer still fear to tread - but YOU CAN!)
90m (this is the holy grail of Barebow, and MY (FREE!) method can help you put 3 of 6 on regularly !
NOTE that I DIDN'T say 90m "you will hit BULLSEYES", because it's just not true. At least NOT easily. This will take WORK, AND a shitload of GOOD LUCK (no crosswinds) with each shot.
WAITING to hear from you!
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
There is a difference between trad and barebow.
Every single shot was nock low and porpoising through the air.
Works well for reference I guess. Please don’t use this method if you can’t adjust the bows tiller appropriately
Greetings Ryan,
THERE'S SOMETHING THAT ALWAYS ASTOUNDS ME ABOUT CRITIQUES LIKE THIS:
You just saw a guy take what he clearly explained were his HUNTING ARROWS FROM A (much-more-powerful) BOW and shoot them BAREBOW and point-ON-the-bullseye at a target at 50 yards and HIT THE TARGET near-effortlessly using a simple 5-step method that could be taught to a 2nd-grader...
... but you have to whine about some minor PORPOISING???
You've utterly missed the point of this video Ryan.
Utterly totally absolutely MISSED the point Ryan.
Utterly.
Totally.
This point was brutally OBVIOUS, but let me spell it out for you:
THERE'S A SIMPLE METHOD FOR SHOOTING BAREBOW WHICH IS SO ACCURATE THAT EVEN A 20# YOUTH BOW SHOOTING MIS-MATCHED HUNTING ARROWS CAN STILL AIM "POINT-ON" AT A TARGET 50 YARDS AWAYS AND HIT IT !
EVERY other of the 6 THOUSAND VIEWERS who watched this world-wide "GOT" this point, and provided lots of positive feedback.
YOU could only split hairs about there being a dstinction-without-a-difference between "Traditional" and "Barebow".
YOU could only see an arrow from a (55#) HUNTING BOW "PORPOISING" (and only a little!) as it was shot through a 20# YOUTH TARGET BOW.
Lastly, you WHINE about mis-matched tillering on a 20# BOW - ARE YOU KIDDING????
20# YOUTH BOWS are ALREADY "spaghetti noodles" from the moment you take them out of the box!
And the entire shooting technique of STRINGWALKING - and its EFFECTIVENESS - pretty much IGNORES any mis-match in tillering COMPLETELY. It's IMPOSSIBLE to achieve a SINGLE "tiller" when you're CHANGING "gap" between the NockingPoint of the arrow and the DrawingPoint of your index finger ACROSS A RANGE OF DISTANCES from about 3 inches BELOW the NockingPoint to 1 inch ABOVE the NockingPoint...
but STRINGWALKERS DON'T CARE, because THE BOW CAN HANDLE THE IMBALANCE !
Let me try to make you understand by using a TENNIS ANALOGY:
EVER see even a PRO hit a tennis ball in SLOW MOTION?
Even PROS hardly EVER contact the ball in the absolute dead-center (the "sweet spot") of the racquet; instead the ball (moving at over 100mph) always seems to hit a little OFF-center, so that the racquet TWISTS/DEFLECTS ever-so-slightly, but the HIT is still GOOD...
DOES the tennis racquet EXPLODE because of this MIS-HIT?
NO !!!
WHY NOT???
Because the racquet was DESIGNED to be a bit "FORGIVING"...
And so are BOWS, Ryan.
WILL the arrow shoot ever-so-slightly LESS-than-PERFECT sometimes?
Yup - THAT'S WHY THERE ARE FLETCHINGS, Ryan ;-)
Me?
I've long UNDERSTOOD that STRINGWALKING introduces IMBALANCE between the limbs for each DISTANCE shot, and that one way to account for this imbalance (if you're going to be shooting say 140 arrows in competition at a given distance like 25m) is to MOVE THE NOCKING POINT on the bowstring a bit. So I've invented a handy little MOVEABLE NOCKING POINT just for this purpose.
LINK:
studio.th-cam.com/users/videoDMdz2wL2LME/edit
Lastly,
No one is telling you you're WRONG Ryan.
But what I AM going to tell you is that you MISSED THE ACTUALLY IMPORTANT POINTS OF THE VIDEO.
CAN YOU hit a target at 50 yards BAREBOW, with the arrow POINT-ON the bullseye?
CAN YOU a KID with a 20# bow to hit a target at 50 yards BAREBOW, in 5 simple steps?
These are the points.
Lastly (again),
If you're going to criticize someone else's (free) efforts to teach skills and inspire new archers on TH-cam, then perhaps you'd better have something more than an EMPTY CHANNEL YOURSELF.
;-)
Respectfully,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS
🤣🤣🤣
Dude I didn’t miss any point and your whole essay was pointless and believe YOU missed the point. 🤣
Don’t tell anyone they can do it, then their equipment may not be able to actually handle it.. or blow up eventually.
Yes “ITS POSSIBLE” but is it right for everyone to use with whatever equipment?
NO
I wasn’t arguing your damn point.. yes it works but is it best for ANY trad or barebow? No.
How do I know you may ask?.. well I’ve blown up a few from stringwalking bows that I thought could handle it.
I CAN GET MY 3yo to hit 15 yards with 12lb bow (only draws about 6-7 lbs) and my 11yo can hit 50yd with a 20# bow (compound and recurve)
Lastly, appreciate the approach and advice in providing such free content.. but still note there is more to the puzzle and might want to mention something at some point once there is a better understanding as certain trad (1 piece) bows can’t actually handle (over long periods of time) being shot like that.
Oh yeah and added some videos… enjoy 🥴
I'm a bit late to these videos but I'm super excited to try this technique for our backyard archery range. We only shoot out to about 20yds but I really like the concept of aiming with the arrow tip on the target and adjusting your string hold point to compensate for distance. This seems to manage all of the variables better or more efficiently compared to "aiming" at some "point of hold" that is not the target yet still appropriate to the bow, the arrow and distance...
I've been trying to help my wife learn to shoot her 22# composite recurve with smaller groupings and I haven't had the language to help her... showing her this video and the others on your shooting method gave her several really big "Aha!" moments including how sensitive the release on a 22# bow is... Looking forward to trying these steps next time... I really enjoy your content.
I almost forgot... the casual off hand digs at compound bow shooters are hilarious...Keep those coming! I bet that ruffles some feathers at the ol' hunting club!
TRUTH BE TOLD...
I own (and SHOOT) a COMPOUND BOW too.
It HAS it's uses - like shooting over 150m.
I've even devised a shooting technique SPECIFIC to COMPOUND BOWS with MULTIPLE-PIN FRONT SIGHTS :-O
I've named it "Pin-Walking":
Pin-Walking is to COMPOUND BOWS what STRINGWALKING is to BAREBOWS - you can START with only a 20m, 30m 40m and 50m pin set...
... and I can show you how to shoot with DEADLY ACCURACY out to 100m and beyond :-O !!!
IN FACT, EVERY compound archer buddy I've ever met now USES this shooting (aiming) method and they're now ADDICTED to shooting ONLY at 90m and BEYOND - it's THAT COOL !
CHECK OUT THAT VIDEO :-)
Awesome, thank you so much. :)
Good video, so what would you consider the ideal weight and spine for arrows to shoot the best from that bow?
Thanks & God bless!
The truth is, it is NOT the method one uses but the practice one has with ANY method and the result are the judge. You practice one method, you become proficient at it, no matter which. Much more valuable would be to share PRINCIPLES that apply to traditional archery independently of the "method". For "As to methods, there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”
DEEP STUFF.
You & I are in AGREEMENT on your philosophy, but there is an ERROR in your logic.
According to YOUR reasoning, even using a DANGEROUS method or one that CAUSES PHYSICAL INJURY or even one which DELIBERATELY INTRODUCES ERROR INTO THE SHOT are all PERFECTLY "EQUIVALENT" - provided you simply PRACTICE that DANGEROURS or INJURIOUS for FLAWED method enough to either overcome or at least COMPENSATE for the DANGER and the INJURIES and the FLAWS.
:-O
That IS what you've said, whether you'll admit it or not.
But please know you & I absolutely AGREE that there are PRINCIPLES which we should all attempt to DISCOVER and MASTER; I won't go so far as you and say these principles somehow "transcend" the method being used - in truth there ARE genuinely FLAWED methods out there, just as there are SUPERB "shooting machines" like COMPOUND BOWS out there which provide even POOR (method-wise) archers with what I'll term BETTER-accuracy-than-they-DESERVE ;-)
So WHAT do PRINCIPLES get you?
Hmmm... I'm supposed to come up with something wise or at least profound, but I'm STUMPED.
For ME, I've been PREACHING several absolutely CRITICAL "principles" about SIMPLE ARCHERY...
... and all it's gotten me is TONS OF SHIT from INSTINCTIVE ARCHERS and BAREBOW ARCHER who are absolutely BLIND to the FLAWS in their shooting methods, so they cry "HERESY" to my "PRINCIPLES" ;-)
And I suspect YOU are about to cry "HERESY" as well ;-)
COULD you agree that at least ONE "PRINCIPLE" should be that you should AIM the ARROW IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TARGET?
That seems reasonable, yes?
And yet BAREBOW archers who ANCHOR AT THEIR CHEEK in fact AREN'T "AIMING THEIR ARROW IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TARGET" - because their anchor point PREVENTS them from looking DIRECTLY down the arrowshaft AT their target :-O
Instead they have to aim a little to the left or right - and it's a DIFFERENT AMOUNT FOR EACH DISTANCE :-O
So you & I are ALREADY at an impass, because you're banging on about PRINCIPLES while I just demonstrated a CRITICAL PRINCIPLE that absolutely NO BAREBOW ARCHER anchoring at-their-cheek in fact FOLLOWS :-O
DAMN - did ANYONE have ANY idea there was SO MUCH DOGMA involved in a SPORT???
It's almost like ARCHERY was a form of RELIGION for some people - NOT ME.
For ME Archery is a SCIENCE combined with the SKILL for PRACTICING this science.
Enough on this rambling topic - I need sleep !
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
I like this video! Why? I was considering whether or not a 20 pound bow was enough? Clearly it is.
We,
CAN you shoot a 20# and hit a bullseye at 50 yards?
YES :-)
CAN you KILL A DEER with a 20# bow that you hit at that same 50 yards?
UNLIKELY - almost certainly NOT.
What is MORE likely is that arrow penetrate only about 2 to 3 inches AT MOST - THIS IS WHY IT'S ILLEGAL IN ALL STATES TO HUNT WITH LESS THAN 40# !
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
me encanta cuando aciertas lo contento que te pones, me gusta tu actitut
No cambies Marc
salut josep
---------------
Resultados de traducción
I love it when you get it right, how happy you are, I like your attitude
Don't change marc
salut josep
I'm GLAD you enjoy my videos and attitude Josep!
I'm also pleased I have viewers from Spain !
Now you have me curious - WHERE do archers get to shoot in SPAIN?
DO you have ANY public parks - or even empty fields - where you can shoot?
Just so you know, even here in the northeastern Illinois - the "Bread Basket" of the United States - many bow hunters still simply go shoot on some farmer's farmland; they don't shoot at any public archery ranges either.
Do YOU have access to any farmland to shoot on?
VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
hace 4 días
I'm GLAD you enjoy my videos and attitude Josep!
I'm also pleased I have viewers from Spain !
Now you have me curious - WHERE do archers get to shoot in SPAIN?
DO you have ANY public parks - or even empty fields - where you can shoot?
Just so you know, even here in the northeastern Illinois - the "Bread Basket" of the United States - many bow hunters still simply go shoot on some farmer's farmland; they don't shoot at any public archery ranges either.
Do YOU have access to any farmland to shoot on?@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS
VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
hace 4 días
I'm GLAD you enjoy my videos and attitude Josep!
I'm also pleased I have viewers from Spain !
Now you have me curious - WHERE do archers get to shoot in SPAIN?
DO you have ANY public parks - or even empty fields - where you can shoot?
Just so you know, even here in the northeastern Illinois - the "Bread Basket" of the United States - many bow hunters still simply go shoot on some farmer's farmland; they don't shoot at any public archery ranges either.
Do YOU have access to any farmland to shoot on?
solo se puede cazar con luz natural y en cotos de caza particulares o publicos pagando, que yo sepa no se puede disparar en jardines parques y tierras de cultivo, otra cosa que no ten vean
++++++++
You can only hunt with natural light and in private or public hunting grounds paying, as far as I know, you can't shoot in gardens, parks and farmland, something else that you don't have.
Can you use this; method without an arrow rest?
Woaaah, thats a great technique. Deer would shit that arrow for sure, but seems good for hunting small game at any distance!
Where is the nock resting near for you? Between nose and lip?
Whats up friend .. I'm new to trad archery I have a martin hunter 55 pound and wondered how bad arrow length would affect this method. I have a 28 inch drw but am shooting 30 inch gold tips at the moment. How bad does length affect it?
Greetings & Merry Christmas Jerrod !
SHORT ANSWER:
ARROW LENGTH only affects your arrow's overall "STIFFNESS" - NOT this shooting method :-)
FEEL FREE to try The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD with ANY arrows you wish !
THAT ALL SAID - I'm STILL curious about your arrows, because all-too-often guys that shoot even 55# bows (I have lots of them) end up shooting arrows that are WAY TOO STIFF.
HERE'S IMPORTANT STUFF YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND (and few people talk about):
1. ARROW STIFFNESS ISN'T determined ONLY by the "spine" of your arrow !!
2. ARROWS STIFFNESS IS determined by 4 properties of your arrow:
1. The arrow's SPINE:
- typically given as a number like "340" or "500" or "600")
- sometimes given as a weight (in "grains") per inch - sort of a measure of Density
2. The arrow's LENGTH:
- the LONGER the arrow the MORE it BENDS when you PUSH on it from both ends;
- the SHORTER the arrow the LESS it BENDS when you PUSH on it from both ends;
3. The arrow's ARROWTIP WEIGHT (and even SHAPE):
- the HEAVIER the arrowtip the MORE the entire arrow BENDS at release;
- the LIGHTER the arrowtip the LESS the entire arrow BENDS at release;
4. The arrow SHAFT DIAMETER:
- a THICKER shaft diameter tends to BEND LESS at release;
- a NARROWER shaft diameter tends to BEND MORE at release
IF you're shooting 30" arrows that have been SHORTENED (just a bit) from (say) 31.5" (typical) then if all other properties stay the same, your arrows will simply be a bit STIFFER than the UN-CUT version of your arrows.
Follow me so far?
You can INCREASE the "apparent stiffness" of your arrows by simply INCREASING the ARROWTIP WEIGHT :-O.
You'll know when you've achieve an "OPTIMAL" arrowtip weight when your bow starts to shoot "HAPPY SHOTS"
I know I know I know - I was all TECHNICAL to start, and now I'm talking about a "happy" bow...
But you WILL feel it. The bow will simply SHOOT BETTER. You'll notice it IMMEDIATELY.
IDEA:
Go buy yourself a few sets of 6 field points - IN DIFFERENT WEIGHTS:
- a set of 100 gr points;
- a set of 125 gr points;
- a set of 150 gr points;
- a set of 200 gr points
ok this video answered my question.
Hey Mark , always enjoyed your videos. your genuineness and enthusiasm. But tell me cant you shoot barebow split finger even at lesser distances?
Greetings Tharanga!
Thanks for writing in !...
SHORT ANSWER:
The moment you shoot SPLIT FINGER at SHORT DISTANCES you're FORCED to now aim (where you see-the-arrowtip) at something that ISN'T ACTUALLY ON THE TARGET ITSELF :-O ...
For me, this completely DEFEATS a KEY GOAL of my entire shooting method, which is to provide a Shooting Method where you're NOT forced to figure out how to aim at imaginary-points-in-space :-| ...
The reason this "Gap Shooting" style BOTHERS me is that it's SO EASILY "FOOLED" by CHANGES in your SIGHT PICTURE:
- if your TARGET changes in size (eg large buck vs small doe at the SAME distance), you WILL BE FOOLED, unless you practice over & over & over on MYRIAD target shapes and sizes; I see this happen ALL THE TIME when I'm shooting with my other "traditional" archer buddies. Even when we're shooting AT THE SAME DISTANCE (100yds) we've been shooting at for YEARS, I noticed that CHANGES in the TARGET SIZE fool them.
- if your BACKGROUND changes (eg shooting with a hill behind your target when you've trained on a flat), you'll be FOOLED...
- heck, even if the LANE in a TARGET ARCHERY TOURNAMENT ISN'T what you're used to, YOU'LL BE FOOLED - I saw this with my OWN EYES at the last tournament, and I was blown away by this epiphany. with MY shooting method, I don't even need to LOOK at the target for any kind of a visual "cue"; if it's 18m, then I look down at my hand, quickly measure a Nocking Point-to-Drawing Point "gap" of 3 1/2 fingers, then look up , put the arrowtip RIGHT SMACK ON THE BULLSEYE and LET FLY - there's NOTHING in front of, alongside, or behind the target to EVERY FOOL MY METHOD :-)
Hope this clarifies your understanding of the power of this the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD :)
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Wow!!!💪
I have gotten alot better using this technique but am i doing something worng when i shoot at 20 yards i use about a 2 finger gap
Happy New Year Benjamin !
TELL ME MORE - let's get you sorted out !
WHAT make/model/draw weight is your BOW?
WHAT is your DRAW LENGTH?
WHAT length/spine/arrowtip weight (in grains) are your ARROWTIPS?
THEN TELL ME:
- WHAT have you determined is your 20m "INITIAL GAP"?
- WHAT have you determined is your 10m "INTERVAL GAP"?
- WHICH distance are you shooting WELL at? What is your GAP for that distance?
- WHICH distance (20m?) is giving you TROUBLE?
WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON !!!
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
cool...............
For a #50 recurve bow how it change the string walking? Thanks!
Greetings Ed,
I hunt with a 50# Martin Jaguar and another customer ILF riser with 50# limbs:
THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THIS:
- FLATTER trajectories at ALL distances from 5m to 100m; hence
- LARGER 20m gap (your "starter" gap) because of the extra draw weight; and
- SMALLER 10m "interval gap"; typically for my 50# bows my 20m gap is 3 fingers, and my 10m Interval Gap is 1/2 finger
It's SUPRISING how CONSISTENT this is across ALL BOW TYPES, REGARDLESS of type: recurve, longbow, English longbow, flatbow, Olympic Recurve, even TURKISH bows :-O (I own several)
Give it a try, and report back your findings.
For ME, the ADDITIONAL DRAW WEIGHT buys me a lot MORE CONSISTENCY at longer distances (70m, 80m, 90m)
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS thanks brother thats a good help!!🙏
Nice technique man. I will try this tomorrow. By the way, I'm a traditional bow archer. Do you think it will work with traditional bows as well. I'm talking about Mongolian bows..
Greeting Ajim !
ACTUALLY I have a VIDEO on using this very VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD on several of my OWN "asian" bows from AP Archery - a 30# bow and a 40# bow - watch the VIDEO !!!
Apart form compensating for a LACK of an ARROW SHELF by "canting" the bow slightly, the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD CAN in fact be used QUITE SUCCESSFULLY with ASIAN-style BOWS !!!
In fact, I'm right now working with a local machine shot to FABRICATE a CUSTOM EXTENSION - a small HANDLE with an ARROW SHELF - which fits right in the middle of my AP Archery TAKEDOWN Asian bows :-O ...
WATCH for that video in the near future - I'M looking forward to it as well !
- Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
20 pound bow, but what are you actually drawing at your draw length?
We,
DEPENDS on the DRAW WEIGHT of each BOW:
For a 40# bow every ADDITIONAL draw of 1" farther than 28" will give you about 3 MORE lbs, so with my 31.5 in Draw Length I will pull a 40# bow out to 50#
For a 20# bow every additional draw of 1" farther than 28" will give you about 1.5 MORE lbs, so me drawing my daughter's 20# out to 31.5 inches will a Draw Weight of only about 25#.
Hope this helps,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
how long before the limbs explode because of the extreme tiller you are putting on the bow
Hi Robert !
Hmmm... how long, how long, how long... how long indeed!
I'm 58 years old...
The ONLY limb I've EVER damaged was on a 55# Martin Sabre Recurve over 10 years ago - and I was ONLY drawing it MEDITERRANEAN style; I HADN'T even BEGUN shooting 3-fingers under, much less 3-fingers OVER :-O
Let's be REALISTIC about all of the "extreme" language you're using:
1. The vast vast vast MAJORITY of bows in fact are structurally ASYMMETRIC - one limb is LONGER than the other; one limb is STRONGER than the other, and "tillering" is an attempt to "balance" the upper limb against the lower limb;
2. This tillering can ONLY be done for a SINGLE drawing position, be it 1-finger-over or 3-fingers under, but NOT BOTH. EVER. I hope we can agree on this, otherwise there's something you don't understand, and this conversation is pointless;
3. Assuming (for now) that most commercial bows have in fact been tillered for 1-finger-over... YOU must then accept that ANYONE who is drawing 3-fingers-under is - like me - loading their limbs ASYMMETRICALLY;
NOW COMES THE "REALITY" PART...
4. ASSUMING 3-fingers-under is "ACCEPTABLE " to the vast vast majority of COMMERCIAL BOW MANUFACTURERS (since they DON'T have labels or stickers claiming "NO warranties if 3-fingers-under), this means the bow has been DESIGNED to accept this "variation" in drawing; The BIG question is: HOW MUCH DOES THIS REPRESENT???
ANSWER is SIMPLE GEOMETRY and SIMPLE MATH:
67 inch bow...
1/2 inch fingerwidth...
A shift of 1 finger = 1/2 inch over 67 inches or 1/134 of the length of the bow; in percentages this is LESS THAN a 0.7% CHANGE :-O...
Pretty damned small, you must agree...
THAT IS, even the MANUFACTURERS have DESIGNED their bows to be able to handle a 1% change in what I'll term "Draw Point Offset" (offset from "balanced" or "ideal").
MY most "extreme" regular StringWalking "gap" is 3 fingers, or 1.5 inches below the arrow. HOW MUCH "EXTREME" does THIS represent?
ANSWER: more simple math;
67 inch bow...
3 fingers = 1.5 inches over 67 inches, or 2% of the length of this "medium" sized bow. For my LONGBOW (73 inches), this is an even SMALLER percentage.
BIG QUESTION: DO you think most Commercial Bow Manufacturers fabricate their bows with only a 2% SAFETY MARGIN????
I think not.
The entire planet thinks NOT.
I WOULDN'T say this Safety Margin is 2X (200%) or 3x (300%), but I can assure you... it's BIGGER than 2% ;-)
So while YOU'RE trying to EXAGGERATE and post my StringWalking as "EXTREME"...
... my (indisputable) MATH says I'm MORE LIKELY operating a measly 2% outside of the "neutral" point the bow was designed for.
If you're shooting ARROWS with SPINES outside this same 2% range-of-ideal, I could argue YOU'RE operating FURTHER outside than I am.
If you're bowstring is an inch LONGER or SHORTER than 2% of "nominal", I sould argue YOU'RE operating FURHTER outside the DESIGN RANGE than I am.
I'm NOT FORCING you to adopt my shooting method.
EVERY single shooting method I know has both STRENGTHS and WEAKENESSES, including the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD.
What I DO hope for is that people with ingrained habits and biases DARE to RELAX them for a bit. What is TRADITION for YOU the past 100 years was no doubt RADICAL 1,000 years ago ;-).
You might be rather surprised with the result.
With less than 300 subscribers since I started this channel a few months ago, I have LOTS & LOTS of people IMPRESSED with the method, and happily ADOPTING IT - NOT because they're stupid or ignorant - quite the opposite; they're intelligent, thoughtful people not constrained by bias, and willing to accept any of the "risks" involved for the "payoff" of RANGE and ACCURACY.
TRY THIS: take your LEAST-favorite bow - the one that has always always always given you TROUBLE with your CURRENT shooting method...
... and GIVE this VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD a try.
Be honest. Be objective.
Then come back here and tell us what you ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED (not what you THINK might happen), and if you're surprised by an increase in accuracy at 20m, 30m, 40m and 50m... be cool enough to say so.
But please DON'T comment (particularly NEGATIVELY) on something that you clearly haven't even bothered to TRY - it simply makes you look like a "troll" spoiling for a fight, and I sense you're waaaaay more intelligent than that.
Way back when you were young you heard about SEX, didn't you?
You HEARD it could be DANGEROUS...
You HEARD it could be "EXTREME"...
You HEARD it could GET YOU KILLED...
But you still JUMPED at your first CHANCE - yes?
;-)
Respectfully,
-Mark | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Can see where you are coming from with your shooting system putting extreme tiller on the limbs would be my only concern .May be better with ILF limbs could adjust the tiller more.
NEVER - it's a 22# RECURVE BOW !!!
IMAGINE THE EXTREME DRAW you've have to achieve even have the REMOTE POSSIBILITY of making a set of 22# limbs "explode" :-O
You'd have to have a 42 inch to 45 inch DRAW LENGTH to even have a CHANCE of stressing 22# limbs to the point of failure !!
I don't mind skeptics and nay-sayers, but you guys have to be REALISTIC and dare to use a bit of SCIENCE instead of mere (apparently UN-informed) OPINION.
YOU simply blurted out your skepticism WITHOUT ever once considering just how SUPPLE a 70 inch 22# recurve bow actually IS :-| ...
ON TOP OF THAT, you're using the TERM "tiller" INCORRECTLY, as it's a measure of the BOW AT REST, NOT AT FULL DRAW :-O ...
LET'S DO SOME SIMPLE MATH and see just how EXTREME my TILLER (difference between top & bottom) at FULL DRAW - just for fun...
At my CLOSEST I used a gap of 3 fingers UNDER the bow...
- 3 fingers equals 2 INCHES exactly
- The bow is 70 inches (my daughter is 6ft-1in volleyball jock)
SO
- THIS means I'm drawing 2 INCHES off-center out of 70 INCHES, or 2/70 = a mere 2.8% from "normal"
- ARE YOU CALLING A CHANGE OF 2.8% "EXTREME" ????
and that's NOT really what's happening to the TILLER - let's look at THAT:
- SAY for now that the tiller is ZERO (the distance from TOP of riser to bowstring -- the distance from the BOTTOM of riser to bowstring = 0 )
- SAY I moved my nocking point a mere 2 inches DOWN from center - let's use GEOMETRY to calculate the change in TILLER:
THE PUNCH LINE IS THIS: The "tiller" (again it's WRONG USE of the term, but I'm just playing along with your ignorance) between the top & bottom of my bow when drawn 2 inches below center is LESS THAN 1/4 INCH !!!!!
PLEASE notice I'm NOT deleting your silly comment, but I'm NOT being polite either.
Your comment is ignorance trying to mask as some sort of hard-core bow expert, which clearly you're not.
FUN DARE:
Go pull your OWN recurve bow 2 inches below center and have someone MEASURE YOUR BOW and its "extreme" tiller.
Then come back and tell us what horrible numbers YOU got.
SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT:
IF my drawing my bow back 3 fingers below center is SO DANGEROUS and PUSHING THE BOW DESIGN TO ABSOLUTE LIMITS...
... then drawing with 1 finger ABOVE the arrow (aka MEDITERRANEAN GRIP) is already HALF of that VERY SAME "extreme" distance, so it too MUST BE DANGEROUS ??
Do you SEE how SILLY your thinking is?
DO you NEED to be careful drawing ANY bow OFF-CENTER?
YES - of COURSE. If you think I'm saying ANY off-center drawing is OK, I'm NOT.
But what I AM saying is that YOU'RE ALL OF YOU WRONG WHEN YOU WHINE ABOUT 3 FINGERS BELOW THE NOCK BEING DANGEROUS - it's just stupid.
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS really not sure whether you are trying to inform me or insult me .The fact is you are only just replying now to a comment l made 12 months ago .Has it taken this long to work out the mathematics you qoute lol.You shoot however you want it matters not to me
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS you derided me in your comments while stating in at the top of your page to keep things civil .l see now you have taken my silly advice about tiller so much so you have made a video which clearly shows that you know very little about how much tiller can affect the action of your bow.
Great fun, and I like your method, but to place reasonable in 3d tournaments you need to put every arrow inside a 5 inch circle out to about 33 yards without knowing the distance, you have to guess, so you need a holds for 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 ,21, 22. 23 and so on out to 33 or so. and to score 10s you'll have to shoot way better than you did here, every arrow with no practice arrow..and to shoot up you need to hit 1 1/2" circle Then there are guys there shooting 1000 arrows a week for 10+ years shooting 6 to 8 up on 25 targets.. the x,'s are about an 1 1/2" circle. I challenge you to shoot your best bare bow, 10 targets 10 arrows at several unknown distances out to 30/33 yds use a 3 inch circle see how many you can shoot inside the circle. Arrow in the circle is 1 point outside the circle zero points... to be considered great you need a score of 10. Very good would be 9 being just good would be 7/8.. 5/6 would be just ok 3/4 not that good..1/2 you be just lucky. I thought I was a good bow man until I entered the 3d world, then I realized how not so good I really am, guys snap shooting a bare bow 256, and I'm struggling to get 200, shot dozens of real deer dead not a problem, staying in the 10 ring on a 3d course is a serious challenge. Standing in a creek off balance shooting up hill at a 5" circle 10 ring on a 3d deer target stuck between 2 trees that are 2 foot apart at an unknown distance. Good luck with that. Those guys are darned great..
Greetings Joracer1 !
Great to read from you... but you kind of miss the entire point of my shooting method :-O
The reason I created the method you see is to provide - as with compound bows & olympic recurve bows - with simple and practical, even "scientific" accuracy, thus ELIMINATING the need for the kind of endless (and often easily "tricked") practicing using "traditional" (I've come to despise this term for this technique)
I'm NOT sure which 3D tournaments YOU shoot, but in nearly ALL of them within 150 miles of where I live, the yardages are literally MARKED, or rangefinders are permitted :-O...
That said, I DO have "gaps" for ranges from 5m all the way out to 80m, in increments of about 2m. Normally I wouldn't go so far as to claim 1m increments, but ultimately it will come down to whatever a single wrap of serving can get you at any given distance. And CALCULATING these gaps are TRIVIAL with my StringWalking method :-), because you still ONLY have to remember 2 numbers:
1. your "20m" Gap; and
2. your "10m Interval" Gap
From there you simply use simple fractions of finger-widths to get down to gaps for even minute changes in distance.
LET ME PROVIDE YOU AN EXAMPLE:
SAY my 20m Gap is 3 1/2 fingers, and my 10m Interval Gap is 1 finger
NOW say I'm at your 3D shoot, and realize that I need a 22m gap:
I START at my 20m Gap - 3 1/2 fingers below the arrow's nocking point;
I need 2 MORE meters, so here's how I calculate this in literally 2 seconds:
- a 1 finger additional gap will give me 10m
- a half finger will give me 5m;
- a quarter finger (half of a half finger) will give me 2.5m, SO...
I INCREASE my 3 1/2 fingers by 1/4 finger... and I'm ready to shoot 22m, with an error of only about 1 inch at that distance :-O
And I did this in 2 SECONDS :-O !!!!
LET's do ANOTHER distance - say 33m:
- start with 3 1/2 fingers (20m)
- REDUCE that gap by 1 finger to 2 1/2 fingers - now you're already at 30m :-O
- REDUCE that gap by 1/4 finger (remember, a half-of-a-half, which is TRIVIAL to see), and you're ready for 32.5m!
- YOU'LL have MORE to worry about with your RELEASE than with the fraction-of-an-inch error in your range ;-)
AND with each of these ranges, using the VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD you'll be placing the arrowtip POINT-ON at BOTH of these distances !
SEE HOW SIMPLE and EASY and ACCURATE this SHOOTING METHOD (and STRINGWALKING METHOD) IS ???
NO decades-of-practice - I can & do literally teach people to shoot well in MINUTES :-O
And by all means FEEL FREE to mock me about my current accuracy; I've told countless viewers that I'm in the middle of recovering from both abdominal surgery AND my first-ever bout of TARGET PANIC, so you're not going to make me feel bad as I continue to make my comeback :-) ...
TELL YOU WHAT - IF you're within 200 miles of North Aurora, IL, I WILL come visit you even before summer - and we will shoot together; NOT "AGAINST" each other, but ALONGSIDE each other. And YOU will bring along 1 "NOVICE" archer. What I will show you is that I can not only USE my shooting method to shoot well alongside you...
... but I'll have your NOVICE shooting almost as well as me (or you!) in the first few minutes we're shooting !
THAT'S THE POINT OF MY METHOD Joracer! - fast, simple, PRACTICAL ACCURACY, so new archers FALL IN LOVE WITH ARCHERY, INSTEAD of being DISCOURAGED from archery by YOUR claims that they'll need to shoot "a thousand arrows a week for years" before they can ever be any good ;-O !
Looking forward to hearing from you and where we're going to meet!
Cheerio
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS im not very good, but good enough to hunt whitetail deer proficiently out to 30 yds.
I shoot almost as good instinctive as with a compound out to 20/25 yards...and to a degree shooting a compound bow is all in the bow, until you get to 3d, any one can take my compound bow and hit the target or say kill a buck at 25 yards, but the shooter takes it from a 6" group down to a 1" group, my buddy Steve can shoot his bow and put 5 arrows in a 1" group at 50 yards, we shoot the same weight and draw length and I'm 8 to 10 group with his bow, he can take my bow and shoot a 2 inch 5 shot group at 50yds, and I shoot the same bow and shoot a 8" group. Its all in the archer.... no I believe you got a great system it's called string walking you can use fingers some do, some have markes on their tab... it works great. many shoot that way. Its great for new archers...all 3d tournaments here are colored pegs or flags, there are several classes , 40, 50. Hunter, several kids classes, senior known and unknown, bare bow, which is unknown and 30yards max.. let's say you shoot 40yds unknown, you stand on the flag look at the target a deer, Bob cat, elk, bear, or what ever, you have to guess that yardage (the hardest part) then prepare to shoot, make your shot, it is scored..you're in a group and you keep silent, if you speak about the shot or signal anyone you both will be disqualified. Now if you shoot known you get to use a range finder then make the shot. Let's say you shoot hunter class, that's almost the same as unknown 40, without fancy stabilizers you stand on lets say a red peg to shoot that yardage could be, 18 to 42 yards... and with a bow if you misjudged your yards. Say you shoot thinking its 29 and its really 39 you will miss the whole target and get zero points and probably lose your arrow. The bare bow class is unknown 30, that's why instinctive will win everytime, because he knows subconsciously where the arrow is going. Because he shoots 1000 arrows every week, shoots at small targets at unknown yardages, can shoot a flying bird or thrown target, in 3d the finger walker will misjudge the distance and loose. Where the instinctive shooter will know within .001 seconds where to hold.
Its great to help new archers get started and your methods are the best way to keep newbys shooting. Me and you have a different standards with what you call accurate. In the hunting woods a deer won't let you take 3 shots before you hit the kill zone. Deadly accurate you say, I thought you meant as in you killed something something to eat i hope, by putting an arrow through the kill zone. I didn't think you could mean just fling arrows in the general vicinity until you finally hit it. Or I just completely misunderstand the term
"deadly accurate " and no I don't teach youngsters or starters you must hit a small target on your 1st try,or by their 100th try. They must have fun and be encouraged along the way.
28 pound bow need different finger gap calculating?
Hi Murat !
SHORT ANSWER:
YES - lighter bow means LARGER "starter" gap (for 20m) and LARGER finger-width for each 10m distance change.
IF YOU WATCH the video where I shoot my daughter's 22# bow... try listening to what I call to start.
I THINK you'll be safe starting here:
============================
20m: 2-finger gap under arrow
Each 10m interval: 1 full finger
THAT MEANS:
20m: 2 fingers UNDER arrow
30m: 1 fingers UNDER arrow
40m: 0 fingers (index finger TOUCHING arrow)
50m: 1 finger OVER arrow
60m: 2 fingers OVER arrow
70m: 3 fingers OVER arrow
That's a pretty darned-good starting place.
Try it, and come back & share with others !
-Mark
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS your place very beautiful.. did you think beekeeping there ?
@@muratgokirmak6132 Thank you for the compliment my "place" - are you describing my HOUSE or the KISHWAUKEE ARCHERS CLUB or the BLACKWELL ARCHERY RANGE where I often shoot my videos? ...
your accuracy is no good as using this same method, but anchoring beside my face and i can get more accurate out to 50 yd than your getting, i string walk and use the tip of the arrow for aiming, and anchor beside my face at the jaw line, and i find i am quite accurate, any error is my fault for either shooting too fast or not paying attention, but when i am doing everything right i get a grouping of about 12" at 50 yd, which is not to bad for barebow, I shoot 28 lb bow left handed,
Hi Peter...
Couple of things:
1. I'm shooting a 59# bow, so holding the draw while TALKING to a camera is HARDER than you might think. Go watch a professional competition, and you WON'T see those guys trying to TALK while they're shooting...
2. I'm working against my very first case of Target Panic in my life -it's been very discouraging, particularly because this is the year I decided to try and teach the (simple) method I use for shooting out at even long distances.
3. I'm still healing from a (kite sailing) injury last year (summer 2019), and it's slow going.
4. I'll beat you at anything beyond 50m because that's where CHEEK anchor PREVENTS you from putting your arrow on the target, and suddenly you're GAP shooting beyond that. I created this method for that very reason - I was CONVINCED barebow archers COULD shoot at accurately as Olympic Recurve archers could shoot, which means 50m, 70m, 90m.
5. If you're younger than me and stronger than me (I'm 58), then I'd EXPECT you to be perhaps a bit more accurate... maybe. IMAGINE finally deciding to spend time TEACHING a method only AFTER you're already OLD and INJURED and have TARGET PANIC. That's me. Here. Now. And enduring the inevitable trolls who feel the need to talk about how superior they are. Hopefully YOU'RE out there spending time making video to TEACH too? I'll go look for them now - BRB...
JUST CAME BACK from YOUR channel - there's nothing there. Nothing. NO videos of YOU putting yourself out there, recording (even on bad days), trying to each, trying to encourage, NOT editing (so people even see your MISSES)... nothing. Just trolling and commenting on OTHER people's effort. There's nothing I can do for you. Feel free to unsubscribe :-) ...
STILL PONDERING your reply Peter...
COMMENTS:
1. I too anchored on my cheek for most of my adult life; BUT
2. In the past few years I realized by anchoring that HIGH above my chin in fact I'm LOSING RANGE - range that I GET BACK when I anchor UNDER my chin like Olympic Recurve archers :-O
3. Ever WONDER why most 3-D clubs "handicap" barebow archers - letting them shoot CLOSER to the targets than Compound and Olympic Recurve archers? I got SO annoyed by this that it was PART of the reason I ultimately developed this method ;-)
4. You're shooting a 28# bow, so I'm guessing you're a youth. That said, I'll share something I've learned about barebow with lighter-weight bows: they're actually LESS "forgiving" about how perfect your RELEASE has to be; that is, it's far easy to JERK your release with a LIGHTER weight bow than with a stronger one :-O
5. SUGGESTION: if possible, try increasing your draw weight (even if you have to BORROW a 40# bow) and try your method again. I won't be a bit surprised if you're even MORE pleased with your groups, because now your bowstring will want to PULL out of your hand without slipping right or left.
6. TELL me what happens to your own method when shooting at 60m, 70m 80m and 90m - ARE you STILL able to put the tip of the arrow ON the target? Likely NOT. In fact, I'm SKEPTICAL any 28# bow anchored at the cheek can be placed ON-TARGET at even the 50yds (45m) you're describing - you're literally defying ballistics if you tell me you ARE putting the tip of the arrow on the CENTER of the target at 50 yds with a 28# bow ;-)
Enough for now - waiting to hear from you, or hopefully see a video. I've subscribed to your channel in case you wish to show some shooting :-) ...
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS wow 59 #bow and you speaking while shooting.. you are very strong.. we are learning 28# it's not possible hold 10 seconds without shake it.. wow. I recommend that use royal gelly, bee pollen and yoghurt live 100 without any health problems.. long live VOGTLAND.
@@muratgokirmak6132 You SLAY me (make me smile & laugh) with your comment about "long live VOGTLAND" :-O ...
GLAD you like the channel.
Maybe you'll be happy to know I'm also switching DOWN to only a 45# bow for the remainder of our outdoor league season at KISHWAUKEE ARCHERS CLUB in Sycamore, IL USA (check 'em out), because shooting the 59# bow for 36 shots in competition is actually a little tiring :-| ...
I would practice more before you make any claims about accuracy!!
Hi Peter.
Please see my earlier comments.
FRIENDLY CHALLENGE (I enjoy these)
ARE you ANYWHERE (within 4 hours) of Chicago?
I'd ENJOY driving to your range and we'll shoot toe-to-toe from 10m out to 100m, and see who's got the better method.
I've got video footage.
It's not undocumented comments bragging about technique.
It's uncut, imperfect, coming from a middle-aged, injured guy with a technique that can & does make open-minded people better archers.
You?
You... have an empty TH-cam Channel. And some comments about your skill. ;-)
PLEASE tell me you're close enough for a friendly bout - we'd both enjoy it :-)
- Mark in North Aurora IL
LAST comment of the night.
LOTS of great boxers have OLD coaches who know how to DESCRIBE and TEACH a great punch, even if they themselves CAN'T THROW that punch any more. Does that make the coach a LIAR or a BRAGGART? :-|
Watching for you to post your (uncut) videos of your own performance with NO warm-up in FREEZING fall/spring weather where you show me up ;-) at ALL distances...
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Hi there i appreciate your comments and no i am not trolling you, i have in fact tried your method and i understand how after getting the eye line correct how accurate it is, i use a 28lb bow because i am 60 and injured my shoulder going up in weight too fast, and have only been shooting for about 5 years, i have just jumped from 28 to 32 lbs, and as this lock down thing is in effect i cannot try it out at distance, which i plan to do, i am using my normal method and alternating with your method, but i am only shooting ten yds, in my garden so not a really good test yet, but when i get back to the club and can use the field then i will see how it fairs, i find getting the eye line correct is the biggest problem so far as i naturally shoot with my other eye and with your method i have to change that, i am a left handed shooter, but nothing i cant adapt to, i enjoy your method as something new, and potentially accurate, but till i get out there i cant assess it properly, when i get the eye line right i find it very accurate, so there is scope for using this method in distance shooting, mind you i will have to buy a split tab as i use a one piece and cannot go above the nock point, as in a split finger for further distances, but i will get one and practice your method to give it a true work out, so many thanks for your input and sorry you thought i was trolling you, kind regards Peter
I agree. The "system" does work (most people just call it stringwalking) but a spray of arrows across a 20 yard target is hardly accurate. There are lots of people that can put their arrows into a paper cup at 20 yards. Gotta admire the infectious enthusiasm though.
@@gblan The best bare bow shots in the world are on average grouping about 6" at 20 yds. Yes, sometimes they will shoot groups the size of the opening of a paper cup, but that is uncommon. See the Lancaster bare bow championship videos on YT. Pls. note this is with full out tournament bows.
Haha "deadly accuracy" 😄
OUCH - you DIDN'T pick up on the tongue-in-cheek humor of "DEADLY" accuracy... with a 20# BOW ???
And I thought I was laying it on pretty thick ;-)
And yet... IF that WAS a deer at 30m, 40m and 50m, they absolutely WOULD have been KILL SHOTS, of that I have ZERO DOUBT.
Would they HEART SHOTS?
Nope. Except the 50m shot WOULD be.
Would they be KILL SHOTS?
At 30m - YES
At 40m - YES !
at 50m - YES !
Finally, you just saw a guy take hits daughter's 20# recurve bow and shoot KILL SHOTS using HUNTTING ARROWS at 30m, 40m and 50m using a simple 5-step BAREBOW method he regularly teaches to KIDS...
... and you're giving me SHIT?
Can YOU do this ?
(note: BRACE YOURSELF, if you TRY this then you're about to learn a HARSH lesson that LIGHT DRAWEIGHT BOWS are far far far far LESS "forgiving" than HEAVY draw weight bows. If you DO try this, you'll come back here & APOLOGIZE for your insolence ;-) )
BTW - I checked YOUR channel:
- 4 subscribers (your family?)
- ZERO VIDEOS, so you CAN CRITICIZE the (genuine, untouched) efforts of OTHERS brave enough to upload videos of themselves on TH-cam, but you CAN'T find the courage to make even a SINGLE VIDEO of your OWN abilities...
WHY IS THAT?
What are YOU AFRAID OF?
There are enough armchair quarterbacks in the world.
QUOTE FROM TEDDY ROOSEVELT THAT YOU NEED TO MEMORIZE:
www.goodreads.com/quotes/7-it-is-not-the-critic-who-counts-not-the-man
(hint: YOU are the "cold & timid soul who knows neither victory nor defeat", NOT ME)
Cheerio,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS th-cam.com/video/liHlCRpS70k/w-d-xo.html
IN YOUR FACE!! HAHAHAHA THIS IS YOUR method, thats all