How To Use a Pinion Depth Gauge
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2020
- For me, using a pinion depth gauge is the best way to measure pinion depth and finding the perfect pinion shim. It’s way more accurate than going by gear tooth pattern and saves a bunch of time. In this video I show you how to set up and use the tool to measure pinion depth in just about any differential.
I hope you find this information useful!
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Due to factors beyond the control of EricTheCarGuy, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. EricTheCarGuy assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. EricTheCarGuy recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of EricTheCarGuy, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not EricTheCarGuy®. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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I am a retired ford tech ford supplied dealers with the set up tools for their diffs and you had a pipe that you bolted in the carrier position and pinion depth goodies where you did not use the actual pinion gear measured with feeler gauges. Fords setup tools worked fantastic and was fast to do because you did not use the actual pinion. when you found the correct shims slap them on the pinion and install it and get the correct backlash on the carrier 99% you were dead on when you checked the gear mesh. i got the tool you used for doing diffs in my home shop, i cussed that damn thing the first few times i used it till i watched a few videos were they honed the bearings and i cooled down then. works great espicially on those darn whinning jeep cherokee diffs. gotta a 85 dodge van i bought for camping has a 294 gear open. gonna install a locker and probably go to a 355 to 373 cause it's bad high speeded for pulling my stratos bass boat and with and open rear the van and boat will be in the water. people are for the most part dumb when it comes to buying trucks to pull thier boats and 80% of the time dealers order open rear diff trucks to save money as it is an added cost option. people say i got a 4 wheel drive z71 if it has an open rear and front diff you ain't got shit cause you pulling one on rear and one on front and guess what you put that junk in the mud you are just as stuck as my van,, and yes people are stupid that's why there so many safety devices on gas cans, lawn mowers, and a trigger lock on damn wood working tools skil saws etc.. Go ahead dumbass stick your finger in that plastic blade fan when i was a kid the blades were gool old metal LOL good day
a 1 2 3 block used for a spacer in machining work. It takes up space and is finely ground to exact specifications. each dimension is 1/2/3 inches usually.
Thank you!
@@ericthecarguy @EricTheCarGuy don't mean to pimp wares or anything, but watch some This Old Tony for some quality infotainment in the machining world.
Those calibration gauges are called standards. The 123 block is mostly useless in this application until you get a surface plate and a whole bunch of other tools, but I'm a machinist not a mechanic and can see their being mechanic hacks for 123 blocks.
I'm also pretty sure you were looking for the shortest distance, not the longest. Indicators take comparative measurements meaning that larger number where the indicator peaks at it's highest number is actually a shorter distance. In other words, the highest number on the indicator is indicating the negative space on the axis measured. They're kind of backwards or counter intuitive to a tape measure. Indicators work towards 0, other measurements work from 0.
I'll ask my buddy what 123 blocks do in this application without other reference tools like v-blocks, more 123 blocks, surface plate and surface gage at a minimum while ingoring Jo blocks.
If you have the money grab yourself a copy of Machinery's Handbook, any revision will do unless you're out there making parts on the cutting edge of technology. It is, in my humble opinion, the second most important book to humanity next to the Bible.
Anyway, I'm not throwing shade. You unknowingly helped me fix my old Honda some 5 or 6 years ago. Just trying to help you understand indicators in return since I have something to contribute for a change.
Edit: 123 blocks have a lot of uses. They are also hardened and precision ground to be plumb, square and true into tenths, if not millionths. The things you can use them for are only limited to your imagination.
@Jason Gifford Thank you for that info. I did the measurements according to what the instructions laid out. Given that I was able to get a correct measurement, I believe I did everything correctly. Thanks again.
@@ericthecarguy in the directions they describe how to use the 123 block to determine depth on a non marked pinon.
Power of the internet.. We all get to learn off each other. Thanks for the input.
Hey Eric! That block with all the holes in it is called a 1 2 3 block. They are very popular in the machining world. Each side is precision ground so it measures exactly 1” thick by 2” wide by 3” long, hence the name. They are commonly used to check the accuracy/calibration of precision measuring instruments such as that dial indicator there, or perhaps a dial or digital caliper. They are also commonly used as precision spacers. Those are just a few of there many uses but I would assume that one came with your kit to be used to check the accuracy of the measuring setup as a whole, and also to be used as a precision spacer if need be. Like say the dial indicator doesn’t reach the face of the pinion you can put the 1 2 3 block against the face of the pinion and measure off from that, then just add 1”, 2”, or 3” to your measurement depending on how you have the 1 2 3 block oriented. A very handy tool for doing precision work.
Thank you for that info!
Absolutely!
It is actually included in the kit so you can put the inner pinion bearing, by itself, in the inner pinion race, and measure to the face of the bearing to get the mounting distance of the pinion. By comparing this dimension to the MHD (Master Housing Dimension) listed by the manufacturer, one can determine how much shim thickness is required without even having to install the pinion for a single trial fit.
I must say. I found you pre career fixing my own can. Now several years later using this vid to learn how to properly use this new tool the boss got now I'm fixing other ppls stuff. Thanks for the knowledge you provide it is invaluable
You know, most videos like this on TH-cam are beyond terrible, but yours is VERY well done sir. Thanks for posting this.
11:00 The difference between calculated shim adjustment and final actual comes down to the fact the face 3:39 of the pinion you're measuring from, using the magnet as a plane, isn't ground flat and perpendicular to the axis of rotation and the flat magnet sits on it. It's heat treated and case hardened and that process alone can introduce high spots on that face. The magnet will sit on the three high spots that are directly in contact with it at any one time and that position changes when you remove to adjust the shims and do the final install. Obviously, if the magnet is not used in the exact same position on the pinion face, those spots can be different and give it a slightly different reading each time. But any difference is insignificant in the big scheme. Try and get it much closer without refining the methodology closer and you are just going to be chasing your tail as every time you remove it to adjust the shims the magnet will be placed on a random three high spots and the measurement will change again.
If you don't have the tool.look for teeth meshing in center of teeth ring gear. It may take several times assembling and disassemble .and when it is right it will sound like a precision pair of scissors when turning pinion.
These videos are in a class of their own. Quality all the way. Always a great day when ETCG uploads - still the best on TH-cam. Long live Eric the Car Guy!
Thank you!
@@ericthecarguy You're most welcome. Just keep being who you are.
Me: a 16 year old kid who was bored so I decided to pull out a perfectly fine running differential out of my 1949 Chevrolet just to see what it looked like. It fell on my chest and caused a very loud grunt. OK, looks good, slam it back together and what were those funny looking looking slotted bearing caps for? No worries...What's that loud whine on acceleration? Next stop an auto repair shop and the release of some hard to come by cash for the repair. Shied away from rear end work all of my life since then. This video gives me hope! Thanks, Eric.
I think our mistakes are the best teachers.
Thanks Eric, perfect timing as I am in the middle of the process. Al
I’m really happy to see this video, I’ve got a similar noise on my 85 C20 on a 14 bolt full float rear end and plan on doing repairs over the winter.
Great explanation! The tool might be expensive but it's less or darn near the same to pay someone else to do it and I get to learn something new!
Well explained ,you are becoming a natural personality on film!!!
In your last video when you showed this tool after getting the differential adjusted, I wished that you could make a separate video on this awesome tool & many Thanks you did😉
Very helpful information in this video👍
Stay Safe❤
Thank you so much for this video. I've got myself a checker a while ago from Yukon and boy the instructions weren't clear. But now it all makes sense!
That was very well explained and a great help I'm sure to anyone wanting set pinion depth. I'm going to save this just incase I need the help one day.
A great tool, and great information. Thanks Eric !
It's a 1 2 3 block used for machining. The name comes from its dimensions being 1 inch by 2 inches by 3 inches. It has tons of uses, I use it for starting drill bits, center drilling or taps to make sure they go in straight
Thank you!
Thank you for all the awesome videos and content over the years!
This is correct.
Great Tool Eric and definitely one worth buying for someone who does rear diffs a lot !
Hey Eric, 04 Super duty again, the gentleman that lent this tool dropped it off and didn't have time to explain it. Went camping for 2 weeks...so perfect timing again for me thanks to you! Just got all the parts in today and going to hit in am. In the driveway weather permitting over in uconn,ct. Thanks brother...btw,chipped ring and pinion, cracked yoke,frozen u joints and wasted carrier bearing,and with brakes frozen pins so only caliper pistons hitting the rotor...could have had a bad day but got real lucky
Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Good luck!
Great info well explained and clear details on all of your videos I do appreciate you shearing this type of I know that you’re helping a lot of viewers like me keep up the good work
Very informative. Thank you for taking the time to make this.
Great tutorial video on pinion gear depths... This is going to be my first rodeo on my rear differential build on my 94 TA..
Thank you for this video! I refer to it everytime i setup gears as a refresher.
I too was reading my small dial incorrectly Im glad you mentioned it.
Good run down on this tool ,appreciate it.
thanks for a great explanation on the use if this tool!
Thanks, great how to video to following along with the provided tool instructions. You mentioned the 1-2-3 block which is used for the alternative method of obtaining pinion depth and shim pack requirements. That way you do not have to grind bearings and spend the extra hours setting a diff up. Thanks
The 123 block is for measuring pinion depth without putting the pinion gear in. You put the race in, the bearing, then you put the 123 block on the bearing and measure to it and just add the 2" to the reading and that will tell you what thickness shim to use. No clue how accurate that is as it seems without the preload on the bearing, the reading may be off a bit. But ths is to keep you from having to make a setup bearing or press the bearing on and off to change the shim.
Allen wrench is 1/8 inch. This is a great video, I used this same tool last night and this video was a great resource and made the use of this tool go smooth and fast. I bought this tool months ago but had not taken the time to learn how to set it up (aka dragging my feet), this video solved that issue in 10 minutes, thank you Eric.
Great Video...I have the YUKON Pinion tool....and the instructions were not clear....your instruction of the T&D tool..cleared up all my questions. 4 Stars !!!
Thank you for the information! Rebuilding my Jeep and installing new ring and pinions in front and rear.
First video on this I’ve been able to stay to the end and understand! I wish this tool was not so damn expensive for a backyard mechanic like me. I’ve tried to see if there is a loner I could get at my local automotive supply but no luck. I’m doing a Dana 30, and I’m just gonna go by the old shim stack to start with and do it the old-fashioned way with backlash and pattern measurements.
thanks man i appreciate this video i bought one of these gauges at a swap meet that was very gently used and complete but didn't know how to use it till a watched this video .wish others teaching car guys would be more simple on explaining instead of trying to be funny and confusing .did my first rear diff and wallah it freaken works great
This video was helpful for my first rebuild on a rear diff
Very helpful. Thank you. I have the tool and was unsure how to use it.
Sharp idea honing out those old bearings & make sure it's the same OEM manufacturer as the new one. Thanks alot . Great content. Getting ready to build a GM 10 bolt as my first build & use oil on bearings to get get accurate reading.👍
Thank you to the Internet's best auto shop teacher. Appreciate it Sir.
Thanks for this video it really helped me understand the dial indicator
It's a 123 Block. 1"x 2" x 3" block for calibrating your depth and outside micrometer. Thank you for your videos.
Thank you Eric I always enjoy watching your videos I am from South Africa
Hello South Africa!
Your the Only person who does it the way I do by using a special setup bearing! Much Much better. I honed about .0005" which is the normal interference fit for a steel pressed fit part. I also have a depth gage.
28 to 32 thousands usually a good starting point on a Gm but I’m getting this tool thanks for the video I made my comment before I watched 1 min of the video I have been building diffs for 30 years and have never bought a pinion depth tool could have saved myself so much time
Very helpful video, thanks for posting.
out of all the hundreds of pinion set up videos I've watched, this was shown and explained the best. ( although when you got to the maths, you lost me. should have took more notice in school)
I don't know what it is about differential work but I am completely obsessed!
All aftermarket gear sets (Richmond, US Gear, Zoom) for the most part will start off at .035 for 8.5 and 12 bolt Chevys. Run a pattern and see what you got. Make sure that the backlash is 8 to 10 max for a street gear and 6 to 8 max for a drag gear if you have a round track car you will need even more back lash 10 to 12. Your looking for a pattern to start off on the toe and run off mid tooth (the strongest part of the gear) on the drive side. Coast side will start off on the heel and end mid to lower toe of the tooth. If all that is over your head have a pro do it or you will have one noisy rear end on your hands. Gear set change outs are not for the every day backyard mechanic. That kit he has is in the $500 range and is not needed if you know what your doing. Besides the paperwork that comes with the new gear set will tell you what you need to know. Preload on the bearings is very important also street, Drag and round track all have different preloads. Why? HEAT is why. Rear ends get warm and when you have heat you have expansion. Have fun.....
Insane how specific differential setup is.
A lot of mechanics do it without this tool but this basically sets it up without taking it in and out repeatedly.
It’s easy once you do a few of them
I watch your Video. And learned How to use that gage. For sure. Thank you, Dan
I have watched several of these and almost all are on either the GM or Ford 8.8. I guess that all the vehicles out there are either a GM or Ford. Basically what you are measuring is the distance from the center of the carrier bearings to the end of the pinion gear. I'm a retired machinist & am trying to figure out a way to measure that distance in a much simpler way than using all those gage blocks & a dial indicator. Something like a parallel bar & a depth mic. As a machinist all those gage parts seem a bit Mickey Mouse. I'll keep looking for accurate info on MoPar diffs but this is a good video.
The Block calls " 1 2 3 block", they are precision group to 1 inch 2 ich and 3 inch. And mostly it's for cheching the hight or use as of a precision spacer.
You can get different sizes as well like 2 3 4 or 3 4 6. And you can buy them from any machine shop tool supplies for cheaper prices.
The 123 block is probably to calibrate the dial indicator or to extend its reach. Take a look thru the instructions and if theres a section on calibration that's where I'd expect the 123 block to be used.
gauge blocks, got some myself for welding
Super helpful! Thank you!
You don’t need a crush sleeve for set up. Simply snug yoke nut until you get some drag ( 1/2 turn of yoke when a quick hand flick applied)
I’m just wondering if that burn on your hand will ever heal.
Love your videos
Informative. Thanks!
Great video and tool.
Have this kit. Its BAD ASS!
Nice tool...I have found Ratech's pinion depth tools to be more than adequate/accurate for the job.
Thanks Eric 👍😁
GREAT VIDEO, THANK YOU
Good job I just got the yukon version of this tool and it looks the exact same with very poor instructions. So thank you
Eric did good 👍 ... Thank you!
I like to calibrate my tool on the work bench before putting it into the differential. This was a large enough differential to calibrate this way but with smaller differentials it's almost impossible. I also thoroughly dislike the dial gauge that comes with the kit just because the revolution counter rotates twice for the full 1" of travel. PS. That is an 1/8" Alan wrench and the 1,2,3 block can be used to extend the measurement capabilities of the tool by as much as 3".
Very interesting clip 👍! As a fellow TH-camr, I am on the lookout for fresh ideas! Nice Job!
And this here kids is why you want to pay attention in math class ...... so you can build your own hotrods when you're an adult. ;-)
Eric thanks for the videos,as always great to watch and educational, you always do it by the book but only one problem you are putting on the kilos just like me LOL
COVID hasn't helped. Thanks for the comment.
A good Mitutoyo depth mic would work aswell.
Very good explanation. How might I get my hands on that tool? Thanks
Yep 1-2-3 block. I remember those from my machinist/tool maker days
Thanks for this easy understanding video. I have a question. Why did you use the old shim as you measured .011 so you should remove the old shim and install a .011 shim only ?
Am i wrong ?
Hey Eric can you please show how to remove the sway bar bushing on the front for the 2004 acura tl? I also own a 04 acura tl, i did all the sway bar links and the bushing on the rear but the front seem to stomp me. Do i have to drop the frame to access? Thank you for all vid you put out!
very kool thanks bro
Do you have a recommendation for a tool similar to this one? I have a Tacoma and it doesn’t work for my pickup. Or if you have a secondary method for finding pinion depth? Perhaps one can measure the distance from the end of the stock pinion to the face of the factory shims? Perhaps that would be n idea?
Some differentials have the shims behind the outer race (aka "bearing cup"), between the race and the differential housing. Dana 60 is one example of this. So the process is different because the larger pinion bearing can be pressed onto the pinion shaft from the beginning and you never need to remove it. However, the smaller pinion bearing will need to removed and reassembled multiple times.
Strange Engineering likes to polish the pinion shaft on a lathe in the place where the small bearing goes so it will just slide on with a very close fit. I think that is a very good idea for multiple reasons. There is no real need for a press fit in that location on a Dana 60 partly because a Dana 60 should use only shims for setting preload, not a crush sleeve (though some OEMs might use a crush sleeve from the factory... When re-gearing the crush sleeve should be eliminated and only shims should be used). Eliminating the crush sleeve and using only shims for preload is a more reliable setup, overall.
10:08 what a mechanics calculator should look like😂
Some pinions have a small step up on the face of the pinion where you put the magnet. Is the measurement taken from the raised center portion or from the edge, which is lower?
how was the magnet accounted for maybe i missed it.
A clamp, a Straight edge, and 8 inch caliper. for those who diy.. works perfect.
Huh, that's odd that the manual's says to measure off the magnet.
Love the video!
the calibration tube includes the magnet thickness , You have to have something offset from the pinion face so the indicator tip will be square to the face on the gear.
@@bandaid1957 I was curios as to how compensation for the magnet was factored in. Thanks.
Don't know what you'd need a 123 block for here, but they are very useful around the shop.
The instructions that come with the kit explain the situations where you'd need the 123 block
funny when you said timkin and toya I thought you said tonka like tonka toys. lol took me a minute to register that one
Gotta get me one of those
Only cost ya $500!
Pinion Wizardry! This is why I’d just pay an expert!
less fidly than using a bore gauge, where you basically have to map the whole thing.
No kidding! Me too. I got a headache during the number crunching part
That tool is pretty slick. Big time saver! Well worth the dough if you've got to do more than 1.
First time I've seen one used. Thanks, Eric! 👍🍻
Any idea what the depth of the long calibration tool is? The one I'm using has been altered I think. Trying figure out where the 3.375 comes from to calibrate the pre-calibrated tool. Center of the pin to somewhere assuming. The manual also uses the same math eq.
so do you have a clamshell type bearing removal tool you use to remove pinion bearings,?so you can re-use after honing the inside out so you can remove bearings easily? Or did you use a new one then hone it out to use as set-up bearings? I am thinking about taking on my first ring and pinion job on my 98 TJ with dana 44,s and lockers in them.it looks like the pinion is riding a little low in ring gear but teeth are almost completely touching from toe to heel on drive side and coast side.but this is SAID never been apart.man i got axles from said never touched and it looks like factory sealent used but i think i need check back-lash first then hopefully its just that and too tight.but its even all across ring gear so forward or back doesnt seem like the answer.but back to first part,did you use old bearings and how did you remove them without s,mashing them.please help anyone,sincerely Rob
Eric. There is another way. The machined surface at the split line of the bearing caps is at the center of the axle. So I lay a flat ground bar (for example a 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide bar). You want a "ground" bar because they will usually be machined perfectly flat and square with a .005" or better tolerance. You cut a length of this bar that will span the distance between the machined surfaces of both carrier bearings. I then use a depth micrometer to measure from the bar to the face of the pinion. I then subtract the thickness of the bar (1/4" in this case) from that measurement. This will give you the pinion depth (checking distance from face of pinion to center of axle/ring gear). I think its just as accurate as these expensive tools, quicker and less math.
The split line isn't necessarily the centerline. It's probably close enough though.
@@nodriveknowitall702 If you are unsure, you can put the bearing cap on and measure the ID of the bore. Then take it off and measure from the split line to the inside of the bore. This will confirm if the split line is the centerline and if not how much you should add or subtract.
@@dennis6325 You might check all four cap fastening points. I can't guarantee that the plane made by the milled fastening points are perpendicular to the axis of pinion or parallel the axis of the carrier bearings. If you're squaring up your measuring device to these machined surfaces, you might be introducing error. I have read statements that called this into question. These may have been flukes, imagined issues, or fabrications by manufacturers of pinion depth measuring kits. After enough measurements, one might decide it's perfectly fine. I don't know. I'm just doing research right now and trying to separate wheat from chaff. I've got what the factory service manual says, what various forum members say, what some videos say, and a smidgeon of measurement consideration and machining experience. I'll be tearing apart a sterling 10.25 tomorrow, to assess further damage and get measurements before I order parts.
Is the pinion depth calculated being measured from the center line of the carrier bearings? in other words the face of the pinion is x.xx" from the carrier center line?
To be clear you measure off the magnet do you take magnet thickness into consideration
Hello EtCg maybe u could help me i have a 09 chevy malibu hybrid 2.4L ive been loocking everywhere for a alternator replacement couldnt find the right one but i did find one that is very similar in every way the only difference is on my old alternator it says 13.5V and on this new alternator is says 12V can i use this one i wouldnt even care if the hybrid features stop working as long as i can start my car?
Hi Eric! According to your calculation. How did you get that Spec 2.548 number from sir?
Pretty good video kept it short and concise 👍
Correct me if Im wrong, but I'm assuming that the "mystery block with holes" 0:44 seems to me like its an afterthought - aka they put it there at the last minute... Notice how the padding is crudely cut compared to the other pieces. It seems out of place; somewhere in the corner shoved... Just my opinion 🧐😉
Rear diff and transmission are the only two things I haven't rebuilt
Not worth doing yourself in my opinion.
They used to rebuild everything. Steering box, alternator, distributor, probably even radios.
Bad ass! @Ericthecarguy
Very good information.. Thank YOU
I wondered what happened to the calculator I bought in 1979 lol 😆
Genuine mechanic who knows what's the best way to get our car run good. Thank you for d information👍
Hi Eric I have been working on my granddaughter’s 2007 Mustang 5 speed trans, 4.0 Liter motor with an 7.5 rear differential. Rear seal leaked out the fluid and we had to change out the gears. The old gears was 331 ratio and the new gears are 345 ratio and the pinion stamp is 2.323. Using a pinion depth tool like you used in your video. 2.500 pin the measurement is .266 =2.234 and pinion numbers are 2.323 - 2.234 = .089. No sims under the rear pinion bearing. What did I do wrong? I keep watching your video over and over again to see what I missed. I have worked on differential before but is one has beat me up. I hope you can tell me what to do.
Thanks
Gary
Eric, thanks for the informative video. I do have a question though. I don't see you taking in the thickness of the magnet into consideration. You're measuring from ring gear centerline to the top of the magnet, NOT the top of the pinion gear. Do you need to subtract the known thickness of the magnet when figuring your final depth? Hope my question makes sense.
The thickness of the magnet is considered in the calibration tube, if you take the magnet thickness, the clibration tub depth and the distance to the centerline of the tool shaft it will equal the calibrated distance.