Ring & Pinion Patterns explained, back lash vs pinion depth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Shows how varying pinion depth and back lash a few thousandths of an inch affect ring and pinion pattern. Sequential Graphic detail from too deep to to shallow, and from too little backlash to too much backlash.
When someone understands a subject so completely they can often explain it in the simplist of terms. Well done!
You just explained in 4 minutes what I couldn’t get from reading about an hour, and 30 minute lecture from my instructor.
Thank you, Sir!
Nice Job Carl. I have been teaching automotives for 31 years. Simplicity is always the greatest method and you nailed it. Very shareable video. Top notch.
Finally! A few minutes described what I've been trying to understand for days. Thank you so much.
Question answered in the first 30 secs and so much more important info than expected. Excellent video. Cheers.
I been setting up gears for 30+years The Gearman says "Nice Video" accurate and easy to comprehend!
I set new gears in my Dana60/70 combo for my 4x4 3 years ago & Carl’s video helped it all make sense. Here I am today setting up gears in my 9” for my hotrod & I’m watching this video again. Seriously, thanks Carl!
👍😎
I've seen gear patterns explained in 1000 different ways but you nailed it better than I've seen. Instant understanding...
TH-cam is a beautiful source of information IF you find the correct video. This is that video. So many others on TH-cam telling you the wrong thing. Thanks for this great info
This is by far best executed and well explained Vid of the subject on youtube, rest is on the student.
Thank you
My friend, that is by far the most informative short on the tube. So much info in so few words. Thanks, thanks, thanks.
Dude. This has been the most comprehensive view of how it works. I’ve been fighting with mine for a week now working on it an hour or two a day cussing. I have finally gotten it where it needs to be. You are a saint
I've been watching and researching for days.. best information I've found to date. Very concise, thank you.
And here I was unhappy with my contact patterns not been more middle of toe and heel for both the coast and drive sides, when in fact where I have them, a bit closer than centre to the toe for both coast and drive, are actually better based on your explanation when pressure is on. So thank you! You just saved me a whole bunch of messing around with carrier shims tomorrow lol
Same 👍🏼 Thx to the Man 🎉 How’s your rear end with that closer to toe patten? No sounds or something?
I been watching a ton of videos on car repair and I had no idea of the level of precision, shims, checking contact points, etc, required to repair or upgrade a differential. I remember getting a quote once to change a final drive ratio on a car I had. The quote I got was way beyond what I was expecting, and I passed on it. Now I understand that this type of thing is not something simple like swapping out an alternator for example.
Thank you so much for providing the information that you do. I am in the process of accumulating the tools and the parts necessary for the complete rebuilding of the rear axle on my 95 K 1500. Your videos have proven to be quite helpful thank you.
Excellent video! I just setup an 8.8 using setup bearings and proved just what you demonstrated. Good job!
thanks for the explanation. clear and concise got a few of us through our 4th year exams.
4th year exam, please explain more on that.
i'm 53 & in engineering , this is THE BEST explanation of patterns EVER .Thanks Carl
Thanks teacher Carl, cleared up a lot about pinion depth for me as well as diagnosing how to alter my setup to move the patterns without just guessing.
Great explanation Carl. Love the way you draw it out on paper. Makes it much easier to understand than trying to decipher from the pics many websites provide. Thanks for contributing the time to do this video
Carl, excellent video....especially the oval pattern templates. Thanks!
Made me subscribe 👍👍👍
Thank you for making this video, I've been watching other videos showing the pattern but could not see what they were talking about you showed it so clearly in this video.
Been trying to figure out the shims and pinion depth on my bmw and this is super helpful! Thanks Carl
Mr. Jantz : your illustration and visual aids solved 100% of my inability trying to attain best pattern on my Dodge 8.75" ring & pinion. Sincere Thanks. 11/2/19
Great visual! It's nice to see the overall picture and not just the snapshots in charts. Thanks.
Great video. Pinon depth overlays were extremely helpful...thanks
Excellent video .. by far the best explanation I have seen
Finally!! You nailed it! I now know that my backlash isn't good but my pinion depth is good! Awesome simple video! Thanks!
Your welcome
Carl, great explaination on pinion set-up and pattern. thank you for doing.
I found it very helpful. Changed the carrier in my 97 S-10 to a Torsen from a 2000 Z-28. I used the original 3:42 gears that were the original ones from the S-10 housing. Replaced all the bearings and it was way off,carrier had to be reshimmed. Got it adjusted to .006 and it works great. I ditched the crush sleeve and used a solid pinion spacer with shims. That was alot easier than crushing the sleeve. I've never used a crush sleeve. I always replace it with the solid spacer and shims. I've heard slightly crushing them in a press between 2 steel plates makes it much easier. Just crush it unit the bulged part of the sleeve just barley starts to crush. I've heard sometimes it can take up to 500 ft/lbs just to start crushing some crush sleeves. That would be dang near impossible to do with the axle in the car without a lift,wouldn't it? Maybe there's a secret technique I'm not aware of?😀
You’re right! Crushing one in the car that’s that tight is a beating.
Crush in press between two flat plates, place old sleeve next to it plus a .020” shim as a gauge, crush till the plates just tickle the old sleeve plus shim.
The best to the point explanation out there. Top notch!
It's like I stopped by to visit and you said I could stay and you would reveal some R&P magic if I just kept quite. I did and you did. Thanks :O)
Thanks, I have been thinking of redoing the vid, as I do more set ups and compare what I'm seeing with more scrutiny what I see is, the pattern moves more in an S curve, (which I say in the vid) but is much more pronounced than how I showed it. The pattern moves in a diagonal when you are way off but more in an S when you are plus or minus .008 " in pinion depth. So when you get a good/ fair pattern, sometime you just have to play a few thousands deeper or shallower to get is perfect as can be.
This is the BEST video on this. Thanks for the help. Finnishing mine up now
Been researching for days and this makes complete sense, most of what I read was to make backlash on the tight end but now I know I need to find the backlash between specs that gets me the pattern I need. Thanks!
new gears are tighter than used gears
Awesome video, feeling much more comfortable replacing my rear end bearings now.. Thanks a million!
Great, I have learned a lot from your video. My heart is happy. We have never been in such detail
Best explanation I’ve found. Thx
Best and most simple explanation that any one can understand,at least for me thankyou
Thank you. I spent quite awhile looking at pattern to figure out what you just said in a few minutes.
Worth noting that the set-up process varies between older style milled 5-cut gears and the newer hobbed 2-cut variety. Very very important to know which you have because the patterns read differently.
Awesome explanation of how check patterns when set pinion depth and backlash. Thank you for posting this.
Succinct, concise and articulate.. awesome job
Simple, clear, on point. Definitely going to take his lecture to the letter.
Thank you for explaining this! i am going to try and change out the bearings of my 7.5" GM differential, pinion seal was leaking, and that was enough for me to decide to overhaul the differential. youre video's are an example on how tutorial video's supposed to be. Again thank you
Thank you Sir.
By far the best explanation I've heard.
Excellent video Carl.Just subscribed. Marked as favorite so I don't lose it! I'm going to swap a set of gears between 2 different 8 inch fords, one posi one open. the gear set in the posi is worn-3.55/open is good -3.25. What I'll do before disassembling the 3.25 unit is check the pattern, then, after removing the carrier, check the pinion depth, also backlash. Doing the same on the posi unit (note- the housing set I'm using is post 1967-posi. the gear set is coming out of is an early style 1962 housing. A lot note taking and pictures) When I get done I'll end up with an 8 inch 3.25 posi differential in a post 1967 housing. New bearings, clutch pack, solid pinion spacer. Wish me luck!😆
Thank you ,I was having trouble setting up a used ring gear , I Had It close ,But the ring gear was exactly the pattern you say ,When it is out to far , I could never get it to come into the real pattern , The backlash calls for 6 to 10 . It was at 11 ,Tightened the back lash to 004 , its perfect , Im Going to put it at the minimum of oo6 tomorrow , The point is for no explainable reason , When the backlash was 11 which is 001 over spec , It looks like pinion to far out pattern you showed , Bringing the backlash down , has solved it , I didnt know , 001 over speck meant much , or 002 under spec would make it move tothe right place .
At any rate a great big thank you for this video !
I wish I still lived by you... this dana 30 is kicking my butt! Coast side looks good, drive side is on the heel and feathers out as well as wiped the top land. Been at it all day.
This is probably the greatest crash course of all time.
Cliff notes!
Good stuff, I was going to bring to shop to readjust my 12 bolt gm posi, but I’ll try to do myself. Thanks again.
Best explanation i have watched! Thanks!
Wow... thank you sir... Best explanation on the internet... I was going nuts! ... Again, thank you for taking the time...
Serge Lachapelle your are welcome
This is the best explanation so far. Thank you
Thank you so much for that I watched about three dozen videos and that was the most helpful
You are my hero had so much trouble figuring out what was going on
Short but perfect explanation
Smart. You make it easy to understand. Thank you.
Thanks for the video! Doing a locker install and it requires me to setup the ring and pinion again. This video will help!
Thank you I appreciate you explaining this. Now I can relate to my pattern.
I would like to give you 1000 thumbs up. You are the best.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that when you get really close some times its very hard to tell just which way to go, so still some trial and error involved. So next time when you get close, (Always keeping the same Back lash min of spec) try pinion dept .003 deeper and .003 shallower, to see if you can get it a bit better, then move in the way it gets better till it gets worse and come back to best, forgetting all about what direction manuals or me tell you to go. Yes its tedious, & hard.
And time consuming! Some customers don’t understand having to pay for the time it takes.
I'm working on a 1990 ZR-1, just got it on the road yesterday and the rear gear is winning bad when it's in gear coasting. Can you help me? Im a decent mechanic with engines and such but not sure I can set up a ring and pinion. If I'm hearing this whine, is it too late for the internal parts, I only drove it about 5 miles, thanks, great explanation. 👍👍
GREAT explaination!
Sometimes getting the correct pattern really f**s up your mind. Watching this video can bring you on the rigth path again.. ;-)
Excellent video. EASY to understand.
When you get the gear set that is hard to get both sides matching , always get the drive side right. The coast is reverse and not under high loads. The pattern that is ideal splashes the oil out away as the tooth comes in. This vid nails ut
Great video!!!👍🏻
Awesome explanation , plain and simple
Peter Russi w
Wow...this is like the Rosetta stone for understanding gear patterns. Glad I found this video. Agree with other post stating the ovals tied the whole explanation together. If I change only my carrier and leave the pinion setup alone, can I get away with using the original carrier shim setup ? Or will it most likely change ? Thanks for taking the time to create these videos, share your knowledge and your experience.
For future readers, always start with the shims you had to begin with. Go from there on your pattern
Excellent explanation!
Great video! Thank you Carl
Actually it does not require setting up the ring and pinion again, just the backlash, as the pinoion depth will not change and assuming the patter is good when you took it apart, why change it. On the other hand while you are in there make sure the pinion preload is within spec. if its a little loose tighten it up. this still will not require changing the dept, just the preload shims.
Awesome explanation!!
Thanks. Clear and concise.
Thanks for the education.
Well done
Very helpful. Thanks, and cheers!
I have no idea what was just explained. Just yesterday, I tried to do a ring and pinion gear swap. I was told I needed some special tools. My question is, I want to do a ring and pinion gear swap. Both gears are factory installed. Do I need to do depth and lash if I am only swapping out the pinion and the ring gear? Thanks
Have to pass along my thanks. Very helpful the detail of expected movement path of contact as particular adjustments made. Something important briefly mention here to favor the toe a bit on setting because under high load the imprint will drift towards the heel. I also suspect the backlash setting could open a couple thousandths too.
Correct, and backlash only get larger with time.
Thank you for your help sir
brilliant video!!! clear and to the point!!!
excellent explanation
Well done sir. Thank you very much
I like this video...
Thanks Carl! Just realized this was you, you are on Alaskan offroad warriors
Thank You very much.
I keep seeing that backlash also moves the pattern between the root and the top of the tooth. That does make practical sense, as the ring gear is moved in and out of the pinion gear when you adjust the carrier side shims to change the backlash. Correct me if I'm wrong, and can we find out how that would not work as I've stated? The curvature of the teeth on both gears? The tapered conical shape of the pinion gear? The tapered cross sections of the teeth of both gears? Anyone out there know?
Thank you!! Great video and it didn’t take 40 minutes.
Excellent Information and explanation!!
So simple even I understood, thank you.
Excellent! thanks!
Thanks very interesting
Thanks! This is great stuff!
Excellent explanation, kindly make practical video
Please what the difference between the pinion depth and the pinion bearings preload
Pinion depth is where it rides on the ring gear,preload is the tightness/recommended torque on pinion nut,measured in so many Inch Pounds after tightening pinion nut to spec,with an Inch Pounds Torque wrench with a dial indicator!
Awesome man I needed this
Great explanation...
Thank you for the video. I have a question at 0:30 in the video when you explain that the gear will “crawl” which can change the pattern. I’m wondering what is happening here since I think of the ring gear and the pinion gear both being in a “fixed” position. I think I understand that the bearings have internal clearances that could allow this to happen. Is it from rotational forces on each gear that causes this? Heat expansion causing this? A natural reaction due to the cut of the gears? Any insight would be helpful. I’ve never heard of this before but it makes total sense based on multiple factors. Hope my question made sense. Thank you.
This is the easiest explanation of pinion depth and backlash effects I've seen... Well done! Simple but so perfectly done!
By moving the pinion in, do you mean, move towards the center line of the ring gear?
Thanks for a great video!
Very helpful, thanks!