Joker (2019) - REVIEW and DISCUSSION [Spoilers!]
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2019
- Eric Rick Carmen and Calvin talk all about the 2019 Movie - Joker - with spoilers galore
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The scene where the Joker is in the stairway looking through his mom's medical records and his adoption papers was tough to watch because it felt like his world was shattered and he started laughing and crying at the same time.
@Edged Line not to mention the mother has no filters towards how his son works "but to be a comedian you need to be funny" that shit hit the nail like....wow
I felt after the discovery of his adoption that he was free to create the 'Joker' identity.
That was the moment Arthur ceased to exist, his "laughing boy" persona he got from his mom was shed. A blank slate he goes into the fridge to incubate, the Joker is what comes out.
Especially because until that point it implied that his mom was the only good thing he had (which if you paid more attention to her words and actions, you can see the cracks in that illusion). Once he lost his only source of happiness and realizes he has "nothing to lose" that's where we finally see the Joker emerge.
He was actually crying. It is a known illness. Pseudobulbar affect, look up for it.
Literally his last joke was THE KILLING JOKE
When?
@@aninditaaaaa when he killed somebody obviously lol
@@aninditaaaaa there is no punchline
tinwoods he tells a joke and kill the guy . The killing joke .... that’s what I mean 😂
tinwoods 🤦🏾♂️
the bloody smile was the best moment in dc cinematic history.
with the score underlying a feeling of triumphant downfall just elevated the scene to legendary status, best DC film ever imo
@@catwearingshades one of the best films ever
was that scene real though?
@@slade6959 it's a mystery this is why it's joker .
How is Howards?
The soundtrack deserves a mention as well. Such a powerful score
You are right best and strongest soundrack
They managed to make Fred Astaire sound depressing. Amazing.
Indeed. The music was very subtle most of the time, you almost couldn't notice it, but you did. It got more noticeable to the end, probably to symbol that Arthur no longer doubts his existence - so the Soundtrack shows that it clearly exists too. Am i the only one who felt it like this?
Totally agree! Especially the music at the end, when Joker is on the car putting the smile on his face. It's such an epic scene and the score just takes it to the next level.
The composer has also done both Sicario movies, Chernobyl, Arrival and The Revenant,
"You wouldn't get it."
What's the name of the song he finally remembers ?
sundaresan logan Darude sandstorm
Every critic who gave this movie a bad review.
Such a perfect line at the perfect time.
S SUNDARESAN that’s life frank sinatra?
''my mother died, I'm celebrating''
I choked on my drink when I saw that scene lmao
Dark Humor : Activate
The casual way he said it was hilarious
In real world u shud not joke about it
football leaguegician Depends on your mother
He can't cry, he laughs instead. It must be really painful.
yea, it was painful to watch, i mean you could see his tears when he was laughing in the train with the three bullies. He was so afraid, but coulnd't do anything else than to laugh. And it was weird because i wanted him to become joker, i wanted him to kill them, because they actually deserved it. The movie really did a good job getting the audience on Arthur's side, to sympethise with him.
@@agonytx3451 he did kill them and i was so happy🙌🤩
He does cry in those scenes while he's laughing.
When I found out that he laughs because he was beaten so bad as a child when he cried. That ws horrifying. That's what stayed with me. When his mom says '"he was such a happy child". Just heartbreaking.
It's not too bad actually. Very bothersome though.
My god, I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this film since Thursday. Heath will always be special but what Joaquin did was next level. The scene on the cop car was mesmerizing and actually brought a tear to my eye. Fucking masterpiece of filmmaking!
Swank 47 fuck ! That’s right that part on the cop car and with the crowds I cry was amazing and beautiful
Same here bro! I also saw it on Thursday, and im still in shock. I have no words for this film, Masterpiece is an understatement!
Joaquin Phoenix joker version is fucking cool..
same here man. I can't get over it. i have watched it twice and i still watch reaction videos to its teaser , trailers etc lol. oscar is coming ♥️
Just got back from watching it again boys. It’s even more heartbreaking the second time around. Flawless is the only word that comes to mind...
When he's on the top car and he truely smiles for the first time..... it hit me harder than a truck.
@Mrsmiley186 Ba Dum Ts
A Taxi*
and carving that smile with his own blood... that was creepy
@Mrsmiley186 spinning head lol
“And I’ll tell you this, not everyone is awful”
“You’re awful, Murray...”
poopmannelson1 He’d only say it way that when he was being flamboyant and silly. Pre-Joker and when he was dead serious on the talk show, he said “Murray”. Very strange
Me? I'm awful? Oh yeah, how am I awful?
@@mastereppsreturns6586 "Playing my video... Inviting on the show, you just wanted to make fun of me." 😠😠😠
I'm hearing alot of people say that the flashbacks after the "girlfriend reveal" was not necessary, but guess what.... there are alot of people who, even with the flashbacks didn't get that the relationship wasn't real ... lol ....
Exactly, that scene was necessary for most people who don't get how the Joker works.
The twist may seem obvious to some but the movie needs to adapt to all types of audience including the people that don't' have any experience with the character mind state.
Yep, the girl that was next to me, didn't catch it, the others next to her had to tell her. There's people that is slow to get things, that doesn't mean they are stupid
It's not just that... I thought that the flashbacks were also important to dramatise his "relationship" even more, making you see that the dates were real, not made up... that he actually went on those dates by himself all dressed up, wearing cologne etc., which makes it more twisted and sad.
You are absolutely right, my parents don't get it that Arthur never dates Sophie, they just thinks that she was scared because she see something wrong with him at that point of the story
her character is also very one-dimensional, we see her through his eyes so as he would want her to be - laughs at his jokes, approves killing of those people, calls the killer (him) a hero, comforts him when his mom is in the hospital. i kinda figured out something's not right after his stand-up at Pogo's. we didn't see her reaction to his uncontrollable laugh and she still goes with him afterwards
The worst part was that Arthur was someone that wanted help and asked for help and everyone turned their backs on him. He recognised his condition, he went to a social worker therapist, he took meds. He wanted to get better and that for me was the worst part. Society turned their backs on someone willing to accept help. It could have been a totally different story for this man if he ever received even a little bit of help or compassion..
That's part of the political message of the movie. People who need help don't get it.
"If I'm going to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice"
- Joker
My friend asked like what is the joke he's talking about and i said "a killing joke".
I'm very proud of that even tho he didn't get it.
*mind blown*
...THAT'S GREAT! That's amazing! Good job!
So did you kill him?
👏👏
"You wouldn't get it."
“But you’re awful, Mur-Ray”
Im totally getting this on "BLU RAYYYYY"
Murrrr rayyyy
I laughed when he kept mispronouncing his name every time. Just to add it onto what would happen later.
@@darthkenobi415 or fourr-kay 😂
"What about another joke Murrr-rrraaaay ?"
When you hand me my Oscar, can you introduce me as Joker. - Joaquin Phoenix
That's bad for the host 😨
*YOU GET WHAT YOU FUCKING DESERVE.*
As someone who struggles with mental health, though thankfully much less than I used to, I neither found the movie insulting nor glorifying. I loved it, and have no desire to kill people whatsoever.
-
It was easy for me to separate his violence from his mental health issues, as it was such a complex web of factors than made him what he was.
-
Ps. I also thought the portrayal of struggling to figure out what’s real and what’s not, was brilliantly done.
I loved the line in his book where he writes "the funny thing about having a mental illness, is everyone expects you to behave like you don't." I was like, damn, thats good. And so accurate.
@@fightingfaerie truly, because for some of the more extreme cases, that is their reality. That is what's normal for them.
I was 39 before the doctors finally got the right diagnosis of me and I was put on the correct medication...TALK ABOUT THE CLOUDS PARTING....For those thirtysomething years I only knew sadness, impulsiveness...I DESTROYED EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE AROUND ME...Sorry bout caps....Anyway...I remember talking to my sister outside of one of the many jobs I had a few years back...I told her "I have never been happy"...And that was the truth...I remember being 10 or 11 years old and KNOWING "Something isn't right".
And as a teen etc I was DANGEROUS...Unpredictable.
By the thirties...after thinking of suicide and why not to every single day for the last 15-20 years...After years and years of taking advice, of reading anything and everything to help your situation, after years of putting a SMILE ON YOUR FACE, after years of doing what you knew should be helping...but knowing and asking "Why isn't anything changing upstairs, why are all the positive actions Im taking not helping how I feel....After years of taking 100% RESPONSIBILITY FROM WAKE UP TO SLEEP...I had given up...I stopped caring and stopped fighting...I was tired.
I picked the bridge I would jump off of....I made an appointment and told myself "This is the last try...I have no more fight in me....And If "I" cant help myself, then that means I have to rely on something outside of me to "FIX ME"....I HATED THAT IDEA CAUSE I KNEW I WAS TRULY AT THE MERCY OF SOMETHING ELSE REGARDLESS OF WHAT I DID AND THE EFFORT I PUT IN....
AND....They got it right.....It was night and day LITER$ALLY over night...BUT...That doesn't clean up the past mess...It doesn't fill the gigantic pit I and the mental illness created.
The stigma is real....Cant say your mentally ill cause almost everyone thinks it is a shedding of responsibility....A dismissive.
AND LET ME SAY...I was that also....I REJECTED ANY MEDICATION CAUSE I DIDNT WANT TO PUT MY ISSUES INTO SOMETHING ELE"S HANDS....THAT WOULD MAKE ME POWERLESS TO DO IT MYSELF...THATS THE LAST THING I WANTED.
So while I struggled and pushed if anyone said something along the lines of them being on something for a mental illness...I would tell them I don't believe in that...after all that's what people told me and I was strong enough to beat whatever it was myself....I WAS PART OF THE STIGMA....PART OF THE PROBLEM...PEOPLE WHO REALLY DO LOVE ME, WELL THATS WHAT THEY TOLD ME....TAKE RESPONSIBILITY...
THAT IS JUST IGNORANCE PERSONIFIED...Those who aren't qualified talking about things they know nothing about and having the audacity to seem SO SURE LIKE THEY DO.
I heard a quote once that stuck with me "The biggest misconception people have is they think everyone thinks like them, and attribute actions and motives to what they would attribute"
And that right there is a big reason the stigma exists...people struggle to understand what they simply haven't experienced and assume their is nothing outside of that.
(Today with this issue or any issue when someone really digs their feet in the sand and takes a stance...regardless of how sure they seem....I always look at their background and their QUALIFICATIONS TO DO SO....It doesn't matter if the other motives are truly of being helpful or hurtful...BOTH EQUALLY CAN BE WRONG)
Its interesting...Come off AS CERTAIN and CONFIDENT AND SURE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING...Even though you have no qualifications to do so...And people will take your word...and actually indoctrinate that into there stance....further spreading mass ignorance.
THEY HAVE NO IDEA THE FIGHT THAT YOU GO THROUGH EVERYDAY....THEY THINK THEY KNW WHAT AN ENEMY IS....THEY DONT....THEY THINK THEY HAVE STRUGGLED....ITS A JOKE.
Now I am very functional and can go out and no one would know any different unless I told them.
So much clean up though....And a lot of resentment tbh...I try not to but cant help but think "If only they got it right when I was a kid...I would be in a much different place in life today"....But they didn't, and while I realize resentment only hurts me....Its not as easy as logically knowing auto removes the emotional turn around of how I felt and feel and the STACKING OF YEARS OF TORTURE....ONE SIMPLY DOESNT REMOVE THE DAMAGE THAT DOES WHEN THE SOURCE IS FINALLY LIFTED FROM THEM....30 some years....EVry day...Fighting....every day...hurting....everyday...begging for relief....30 some years.
Sorry, Im ranting...Anyway...The movie, as you said was very easy to understand to me...easy to remove what was the mental illness and other.
I also keep in mind that im very lucky....40 years ago it wouldn't of mattered if they found out what was going on or not cause medically they couldn't of helped like they can today....I think of others who either lived their entire lives in desperation and misery and simply had no solution...Or those who decided to check out of life earlier then they would of otherwise....TOO MANY.
I am grateful...just years and years of destruction upstairs....even when fixed from that day on...Does not fix the past.
All I can do is try my best to catch up....And understand that I cant expect those who have never had the experience to somehow GET IT...So when some are still dismissive (Although anyone who knew me before and thought it was BS certainly sees the DRAMATIC IMPACT AND DIFFERENCE today...That it is hard for them to deny what I knew all along) I just graciously smile and move on...NOT MY JOB TO MAKE SOMEONE GET IT, I NPO LONGER HAVE TIME FOR THAT IGNORANCE CAUSE BEFORE I WOULD FEEL SO ASHAMED AND QUESTION MYSELF CAUSE "THEY SEEMED TO BE SO CERTAIN"...AND ALSO NOT MY JOB TO LISTEN TO THEIR OPINION.
Its funny...You know how they tell you to take responsibility??
It sounds great and USUALLY is the correct course to take for everyone...BUT NOT SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS....How do you take responsibility for something that TRULY ISNT YOU?
Just taking that advice from people for so many years truly hindered me getting the help I needed.
Now that I am on medication that evens the playing field....NOW I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.
MY ACTIONS TRULY BELONG TO ME TODAY...And just because it doesn't match the hate and view of those who want to point a finger and blame your actions...FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT YOU....Part of me wants to go back to each and every one of them and let them know...guess what....WRONG.
I do it a better more positive way though....I show it by the dramatic change and what I do each day after I was treated correctly.
They can either have that enlightened "OH, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT"...Or remain in ignorance.
People tend to have a hard time when they have a certain worldview...if that is threatened...They have trouble opening up to the idea and new info...The mind likes to organize...to a fault.
And it takes a lot to say...Oh, I hurt them and really was wrong about the WHY.
I know the last part wasn't explained as well as I could have....
Have a great day 🙃
Oh, and good movie!
I even felt bad for him after he shot murray, because that’s when he completely turned into the joker. He sat there with the coldest look on his face and was just shaking his leg, man what a great scene.
Am I turning soft, or did the Murray murder scene seem realistic as fuck? The whole movie is a dark twisted masterpiece
____ Nah it was very dark. I felt like I was watching one of those live leak videos
@@darianchambers3227
Seriously, no other movie made me feel like that, and I'm trying to really figure out what it was.
I have never watched a movie twice in a theatre, but this may be the one
Same I just felt sad everytime I saw him get closer to the madness.
Try In Bruges, got a lot of good shit in that one
I love when the FBI agent is like " is the laugh real or an act" and Arthur says " what do you think?" Then faceplants into the door
I literally laughed out loud at that part. That was a genius scene to be fair, it broke up the dark material perfectly and let you come up for a breath.
@@Kevakazii exactly, very well written
fbi?
One of the most disturbing parts in the movie was when he kills one of his co workers and kisses the other on the head saying : You were the only one who was kind to me
Actually Arthur stopped laughing after he became joker coz he wasn't nervous or anxious or sad anymore
He has so many more eyes on him on the Murray show, but whereas he loses control at a simple comedy club, he is completely confident on TV.
You could say that the laughing was the Joker trying to break free of Arthur. Arthur is in pain when laughing where as Joker enjoys it.
@@Zikk0_o he's also off his medication, so the drugs aren't causing him to laugh now. he's completely embraced what he tried to run from.
@@kasperhawser6431 Yep, the drugs were only suppressing who he really was. Like he wrote in his journal, he was expected to act normal as if he had no mental illness.
Lakross101 that’s because he is behind clown ‘mask’ painted on his face
That card wouldn’t have helped. Those pricks would’ve tossed it and still beat him
James Robinson the point is that he tried something even if it’s pointless.
@@AKB_2k No, Eric said this entire thing kicked off because he didn't have the card to give those guys in the subway to explain his condition. No card would have made a difference because those guys were looking for a victim.
James Robinson yeah that’s true. Thanks for clearing it up for me!
James Robinson That’s what made it sad for me. How he tried to explain but it wasn’t going to make a difference 😭
I figured he carried a stack of these cards with him in his bag, which he would hand to people around him if necessary. I doubt he gave his only card to the woman. Card or not, the three guys would not let him grab his bag, so he wouldn't have reached his cards anyway.
It wasn't the same woman at the end.
WalterWhite they didn’t even look alike
@@ZeroHero530 No they don't. WTF
@@ZeroHero530 he just didn't get it.
Gabriel Ferreira ever heard of a joke?
She wasn't the same. But she was made to look kinda the same like the social worker. Same hair-do, sort of clothes, etc. To have the audience question everything
“If I’m going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice” -The Killing Joke
My fav part was him coming to the stage like a damn boss. Then he even has the balls to admit the killings like it was nothing.
That’s the joker for you he sees killing as completely normal
@@jackj9816 since he himself already died (within) with the society.
Athan he just dose not see what wrong with it his fine with killing and really dose not care when someone tries to kill him he only try’s to out play Batman because he thinks it’s fun not because he is trying to get away
I loved the movie because it was all character development instead of just bunch of CGI
same
I loved the moment when his boss accuses him to taking the bz owners sign. He's so upset but his face makes this beautifully disturbing expression. This movie is amazing.
Maybe he did take the sign, but in his own world it shows him chasing the gang.
Just like we are seeing Arthur handed a gun by his co worker when in fact he may have stolen the gun from him.
We are only seeing what Arthur is thinking what’s happen as apposed to the reality.
@@Bossman525 You can take this kind of thinking everywhere.. I don't like the idea that literally every single thing is up to interpretation. To me it seemed clear what scenes were only his imagination, they always felt rather jarring or out of place for his character to do, like the thing with his girlfriend.
Yumidori Iro great points raised, however do you feel that the film makes you analyse every scene.
It’s kinda weird that a couple worker offers you a gun straight out of the goodness of his heart right????? The sign scene can be interpreted in many ways, but I say is what’s to say he never took the easy way out on his “shift” and just ran away from his current state in life???
@@Bossman525 fair enough :)
Regarding his colleague, though, he did not act out of the goodness of his heart. Later in these movie, he tries to f*ck Arthur over by claiming he wanted to buy the gun off him. That is, if I interpreted that right
The comedy club scene when Arthur is laughing along with the audience except he’s out of tune. That was 😳😬
The Cool Formula He found shit funny that others didn’t. And he looked so confused when people where laughing when he didn’t. Sums up some of the theme.
@@cloudstrife746 i dont think he truly found it to be funny. I think he was laughing because others were laughing. He was trying to figure out what others found funny opposed to what he actually found funny because he wrote in his joke book "Sex jokes are always funny"
O-Ren Ishii yeah definitely
@@cloudstrife746 its showing you how disconnected and detached from society he is.
As someone who suffers from PTSD the most disturbing thing I took from this movie is how when Arthur is medicated he allows people to take advantage of him and he has little confidence and moves along through life in somewhat of a fog. The medication takes passion from him. It takes the bad and the lows but it also takes the highs and the potential for happiness. There are many times when you become aware that the meds do this and there is a tradeoff. Arthur is forced to come off his meds because they become unavailable. What happens when that tradeoff is reversed is a decision that some people have to make on a daily basis. I want to be able to feel the passion and the joy and happiness that I'm being robbed of. But I also know that removing the leash from the possibility of so much anger and frustration is literally a dangerous roll of the dice. I went to this movie with my wife. I didn't say a word the entire car ride home. My wife reached over and simply held my hand. She knew. Thank you Joaquin Phoenix for an incredible performance. Tomorrow is another day. I will wake up and look at the pill bottle and decide, which I do every morning, which side of the tradeoff I choose to take. Which side I choose to feed and which side I choose to keep putting to sleep.
Hope you get more and more of that passion and joy man!
@@jonathanmalangis2323 Thank You. The passion and joy are there. But it has been tainted by experience and so it has to be curtailed. This is one of the main things I took from the movie. Arthur seems very tired early in the movie when he is taking the meds. The meds have these effects. It's like doping a lion to make him calm. The lion still has the capability to be violent but he is medicated to a point that the internal trigger is just very difficult to flip. But the intensity doesn't leave it just builds up behind the fog of the medication. When Arthur finally breaks, especially when he kills the guy in his apartment, he seems really relaxed and just so relieved. This is the release of the intensity within a few minutes and signals his complete transformation into the person that has now finally just given in to the man he had already become behind the wall of meds. When that wall breaks, due to an external trigger or trauma, there is no going back. It is a double-edged sword. Relief that he no longer has to deal with the monster building inside of him. But now he must find a way to deal with the monster he has become. The knowledge that there is no going back is the edge of the blade that someone with psychological issues dances on every day.
@@derekgooden2507 yeah that's why it's sad and so dark because it is true and the thing is everyone has a similar experience but on a small gradual step.
Thumbs down because its true and sad.
Watched it today. People clapped after the movie. Loved it.
Same here! Only happened once before for me and that was on the last jedi.
Same
@@menamgamg who the hell clapped at the Last Jedi lol?
I guess it depends on the region you watch it in. Here in the bible belt with a theater of about 30 people there to see Joker, no one clapped and there was silence all through the movie.
@@tangoiceblast1291 A lot of people it seems because it happened both time i saw it :)
This has to be the best origin story ever... we even got a Batman origin as a bonus for desert.....Arthur climbing the stairs to the top of society trying to be normal... but he dances down the stairs as he falls into anarchy.. and the joker was born... as audience we are the ones dancing down the stairs as we embraced how good this movie was.. it begs for more.. I do hope Joaquin Phoenix does a sequel..
My audience clapped at the Blood smile scene
Do you live in Hell?
The Boognish hE LiVEs iN A sOciETy
The Boognish 😂😂😂
@@applebottomjeans7571 LMAO 😂😂
@@applebottomjeans7571 No, he realizes The Rich don't deserve sympathy.
That part when he wants to cry after reading his mom's medical file and he wants to cry but he can't cause of his unpredictable laugh.
I don't think the laugh is all that unpredictable. He laughs basically any time he gets (negatively) emotional, distressed, traumatized, anxious. When the woman on the bus spoke to him harshly, when he was afraid in the train, when he is arguing with his coworkers and put on the spot, and especially when he finds out his entire life has been a lie
I would love to see Joaquin in a movie full joker from start to finish
I would love to see juaquin play the fully evolved joker! The glimspes we got from it was fucking amazingly well acted, like when he dances down the stairs :)
@poopmannelson1 well in interviews he has said that he would not mind playing as the joker again it all comes down to todd Phillips if he would like to
@@bryanmejia1806 but the unknown makes it even better... The use of imagination makes it awesome. We might get disappointed like how i was slightly disappointed by the deadpool 2 movie. It was fun but not as fun.
@@jonathanmalangis2323 Agreed, My imagination literally views Joaquin as a sarcastic and mocking Joker than heath but in reality this will always be asked, is the movie what you expected and wanted?
When you talked about that last scene in the fake gfs apt being ruined by the flashback, I don't the director was trying to cement the plot twist. Up until then, the audience has been kept in the fog so it would be weird to suddenly push that specific part. I think those flashbacks are more through Arthur's eyes moments were he is probably admitting that he made it up, whereas in other movies the main character would be shocked that it could happen. It throws you into a whirl because you don't know just how much control he actually has over his thoughts and actions.
Good point!
That's what I got from it too. It reminded me very much of The Sixth Sense, when The Twist was accompanied by similar flashbacks.
I also feel it was the movie's way of telling the audience, if they weren't already aware, that not everything was real, that Arthur's recollections and point of view is faulty. So now you start second guessing everything else that happened
Lakross101 I don’t see how that was ruined by the flashback tbh seemed very exaggerative on his end lol
Nah, that's just a thing directors do when they don't trust their audience to make their own conclusions and understand correctly what's happening. To the point where they literally have to spell it in your face... I agree that those flashbacks weren't necessary
It's a man losing his sanity. That shit's worse than death, even if they disagree. This movie is EVERYTHING and I'm sure Joaquin will get his Oscar.
I'm ready to see the Academy fucking up again and not giving it to him. But he sure as hell deserves it.
@poopmannelson1 what does pc mean. Hahaha but true tho if they anything like the mindless bandwagon sjws they would hate on this movie and ignore joaquin
Bathroom dance was hands down best, most powerful scene in this movie.
I honestly thought for a second Aquaman was sitting reviewing Joker :O
It was actually strongly hinted that Thomas Wayne is his illegitimate father because of the picture Arthur picked up of his mother in the file that said "such a pretty smile" -T.W. (Thomas Wayne). But then again was ANY of it real?
his laughter was uncontrollable in stressful moments. at the end when he kills murray, he embraces who he is now and there's no more stress. you can tell since that´s when his laughter is calmer and actually controlled.
Or its not real. The other time we see him in control was as he went into his second joke at the stand up show. It was filmed to make you think he nailed it, but later you realize it was just as awkward as the first joke.
When Gary tried to open the chained door I was thinking "Please Arthur don't kill him. Please please please." This scene was so good.
I felt so sad for him that he laughed when he did not want to. Me and my friend went to see it and we had a 2 hour discussion afterwards, great movie
Bad things after bad things just started piling up in his life , you can’t help but feel remorseful and pitiful for him. He don’t deserve this things to happen to him, but after finally reaching his breaking point, he found his rhythm hence why he danced so gracefully,he felt confident after those killings.. no longer the insecure Arthur he was, his transition to Joker was done well.
I think the final scene was implying directly to the tragedy of the Wayne family demise. The realization that Arthur was once adopted and orphaned by his mother and now that young Bruce is also orphaned without any parents , that was the “joke” of it for Arthur at least to me. It was so symbolic to how Joker was born on the same day that Batman was born, Joker”s enduring chaos indirectly and unintentionally created Batman - both of which are victims of society, victims of the environment that their raised in.
Also, That midget scene and his friend was SOOOO intense.
We are suppose to find it funny, at the same time, we were we were scared for the midget”s life whether he will get out or not depending on Arthur”s decision, if he didn’t want any witness , he would’ve murdered Gary as well. It”s a really dark twisted humor in a moment that was unnerving and unsettling at the same time.
The things about the Joker persona that they also captured so well in the movie from the comics , not only they encapsulated his tragic downfall leading off a spiral of unfortunate events but also pointing towards the Killing joke multiple origins point- his unreliable narration to the audience letting us guess which one of those things he spoke of was true or false or was it all made up in his head?
And his actions and every act, his emotions , his thoughts are like a storm raging within his mind - the unpredictability of his character. It was done so well to a T, true justice to the chaotic nature of his conflicted character.
The Joker is the BEST DC movie I have EVER seen since TDK so far, I loved it, such a thought provoking movie from a great antagonist that people have known for ages.
Marvel: Spider-Man when arthur locked the door, you know somethings bad is goin to happen
Agree but say little person or something. Midget is just distasteful.
@@abcdefghi2749 the movie said midget. Plus, "small person" is usually used for children.
@@abcdefghi2749 facts dont care about your feelings
abcdefghi2749 I have a midget friend, and he would be offended if I called him little person.
My whole theatre cracked up when the midget couldn’t get the lock
Mine too🙂.
I was just like god what could you do in that situation
Although, it was also tense. There definitely was fear for the little guy. Having to be at the mercy of Arthur and not knowing if he would survive. The uncertainty was what made this. Glad he didn't though.
I wouldn't call it "cracked up".. I laughed instinctively like "oh shit, that's so bad..", I didn't find it hilariously funny or something..
@@holysecret2 I never said it was hilarious. It was a very intentionally placed piece of light relief after a very intense scene. The midget hadn't actually done or said anything bad to him through the movie, so you knew he'd be ok Oh, btw, your opinion is yours granted but so is everyone else's 👍
"be kind to each other". I have never agreed with Rick this fast!
"He was always such a happy little boy"
I noticed all the clocks were always 11:11 (Joker is the 11 card in a deck)
Oh, interesting!
A lot of people don’t know that in the comics, Joker has literally inspired cults that worship him. I feel like the end of this movie touched on it.
And, Batman and Joker have always been intertwined. This did it in a new/interesting way.
yae that makes sense.
Yeah even in gotham young bruce series the woupd be joker had worshippers
31:41 "It was low budget."
Actually it's worth pointing out that Joker had a budget of $55 million. To put that in perspective, it was a larger budget than John Wick ($20 million), John Wick Chapter 2 ($40 million), and just slightly under Deadpool ($58 million). Compared to other comic book film, it is relatively low budget. But when put alongside other character focused films like it, it had a far larger budget (typically a comparable film will have around $5-15 million). The biggest reasons for requiring a larger budget was probably creating the setting of old Gotham and the on-location filming (NY and NJ) as well as hiring a talented production team. Which was completely worth it.
55 million is a low budget for a blockbuster
Yh I heard most of the budget went on talent and securing locations
The gloominess in the setting made it a lot darker and horrifyingly beautiful
It's confirmed to take place in 1981
Yes and no, Yes todd has said it but he said that was only what he thought of it to be. He even said the movie has no confirmed year so basically this is probably their version of the early 2000s or late 90s (or something) and the fact that Joker takes place in another universe supports that fact that gotham is frozen in the past.
“I think it took place in the 30s.” Bruh take a history class, look at the cars of phones or televisions.
More like late 60s or mid 70's
@@juansierra387 1981.
I laughed out loud after hearing that. That comment was a joke.
Yeah it’s been confirmed by the actual movie producers that it’s 1980s
Zorro the gay blade came out 1981 . That was the movie the Wayne’s we’re watching in the movie theater
Also the shots of the stairways are very symbolic. At the beginning of the movies there are a couple of shots where he's seen climbing up the stairs. Trying to find a will to keep going. Yet at the end of the movie, after he killed his mother, and kill the coworker at his apartment, paint his face as the "joker", all that make it like he is not going back. Descending the stairs dancing "happy" like he descended into madness.
I’ve pretty much loved all the different versions of Joker but Joaquin’s Joker is the way I’ve always wanted Joker to be. Just horrifyingly, tragically insane.
Ok so after Thomas and Martha die we cut to sometime later and Joker is in the medical ward. So its safe to assume that he heard about it on the news, the news of that death would be everywhere and especially with a clown that did it he knows he inspired it and finds that funny.
yeah that's what I thought. I kinda love the idea that Joe Chill took Joker to the Wayne's to show him though. Just imagine Bruce there in shock while Joker is in front of him laughing and dancing over the dead bodies. oof..
Matt Mcandrew Oh for sure that idea is chilling. I like this movie because of how much they don’t tell you but you can see multiple ways of how his character came to the conclusion he did. Fucking insanely good with the amount of theories I have heard about this movie that I go FUCK that makes sense. I need to see this again
Tommy Nicoletti i Saw a guy comment on another vid that the joke he laughed at was “whos the orphan now”
Lawrence Widemouth 😂😂😂
I saw an absolutely amazing moment of symbolism in the scene at the end where he stands on top of the cop car and uses the blood from the inside of his mouth to paint a smile. The blood is a result of physical pain and damage but with it, he paints a smile, the same way he laughs when taking a beating due to his condition. Just a beautiful movie, very artistic.
Why does the girl leave her door unlocked IN GOTHAM?
We don't know if that was also just Arthur's imagination or not
I used to live in an apartment and we wouldn't lock our door, mostly because we lost our key so we had to leave it that way.
We were still safer because there was always at least one person home at all times, but this is PREBATMAN Gotham, not Fox Gotham where every Batvillain came out before Batman, but snithole Gotham.
The way i saw it with the bloody smile on his face on the end is that it represents the fact that for the first time Arthur is genuinely smiling. And because I thought of it like that, it honestly made me feel happy for him.
I'd go deeper into it but I'm tired so I'll comeback and add more tomorrow
"I'll add more tomorrow"
3 years later...
Here is an easter egg I havnt seen mentioned anywhere yet. Young bruce is on the playset and starts toward the fence to talk to Arthur. They tighten in on young bruce reach out and you get a foreshadow of Batman sliding down the Batpole
...the Batpole? I’m afraid I’m not familiar with that one 😂
Guess he’s a firefighter now
The whole time I though the girl was actually his girlfriend, until the reveal
It was taking place in the 80s. At the very end right before Thomas Wayne and his wife are killed, the cinema sign said that they showed the movie 'BLOW OUT', wich is Brian De Palma's 1981 film.
Also, Zorro, The Gay Blade came out in 1981.
About Thomas Wayne,remember we see everything through Arthur's eyes,and how Wayne is in the movie could be how Arthur sees him
The bloody smile was the moment when Arthur embrace The Joker. The point of no return. Definitely the best part of the movie. So great!
The flashbacks in the apartment scene were powerful and drove the point home.
18:46 Oh, but it SURE CAN. I guess they missed the fact that Arthur finds a picture signed by "TW" to Penny, later on, with "Love your smile" written on it.
The adoption papers and the mental illness may have easily been forged, by such a powerful man. There's no definite answer, purposedly.
Another thing that no one seems to notice is that Arthur (Joker) has a job with clowns that are also mobsters which in various other interpretations of him he always hangs out with mobsters and even is one. His entire job in this film inspires his future and his crime.
GENIUS.
I thought that maybe the neighbor was going to their version of Harley Quinn until you find out he imagined it all.
I believe that there were news articles written about how the Wayne family got killed in an alleyway leaving their son alone in the world and the Joker read about it afterwards
Oh yeah,
"I've been looking forward to this"
I think Thomas wayne is his dad. what adoption agency would give his mom a kid? and then let her keep it? unless this was set up by the rich and powerful wayne to cover for his affair
It was explained in the movie
She was stable enough to adopt him and her mental state degraded rapidly when Thomas didn't go along with the whole "he's your son thing". After the beatings were discovered he didn't stay with her he was physically and mentally damaged and spent a good chunk of his life in mental hospital.
Yeah the rich can sometimes do that. Cover up things that they don't want people to see. The whole adoption might have been a cover up from Thomas Wayne after he saw how crazy Penny was.
@@icefirething but why would they let her take him back?
@@patchwilliamson they didn't. He was in the hospital unitl he was an adult. After his release he chose to go take care of his mother since his own mental damage didn't let him remember his traumas.
I've seen a couple of reviews and none of them mention the photo the Joker's mother is in. After killing her there is a scene where he is smoking while holding a photo of her. In the back you can see something that says "I love your smile - TW". Arthur doesn't even look at it because he throws it away after only looking at the front.
I don't know how people can miss that, it's pretty obvious.
Lets not forget the scene of him dancing down the stairs. Iconic!!!
The whole talk show scene I couldn't take my eyes of the coffee mug on the table
My favorite scene was bloody smile at the end, in that moment he truly embrace what he is.
That laughing uncontrollably is real condition. My mother had it and it was heartbreaking to portrayed so well from Joaquin. I remember when mom would laugh out of no where, we would say whats funny mom? She will just say, oh nothing. She laugh an laugh. Anyways i loved this movie. So so good.
Joaquin mentioned it in an interview and I watched the videos of people with that condition. It's so heartbreaking. The laughing scenes in the movie, especially the one in the comedy club, was so sad to witness.
The movie handled it really well.
I hope your mom is better now.
Thank you for those words. Well good news is she doesn't have to deal with that condition any more. Bad news, she is no longer with us on this planet. Passed away back in 2012. Miss her tremendously, however knowing she is in a better place and not going thru that torture is sweet to my soul.
I think he imagined the entire thing...they showed him banging his head off the window in the asylum at the begining...and throughout the movie he bangs his head on things (phone booth, sliding hospital door, the cage at the counter getting his mom's files, off the windshield when the car hit him) I think that's all just him smashing his head in the asylum imagining he's doing those things
I think the best metaphor for Arthur is a pitbull, everyone just falls on the idea that they're just evil from birth, while it's actually the environment that helps the aggressiveness grow
@Kris with how the society is right now most people would not think of this
" when I get the Oscar can you introduce me as joker "
Literally 7-8 people was in my theater, including the undercover cop
Lucky you, I had to settle with awful seats on hyper expensive showing because that's the only viewing I could find that had seats left.
@@gJonii Give praise that you still got to see the master piece Brother
Great review guys, nice to see more people understand what the movie was going for.
I think a lot of the critics miss the point that the film isn't trying to turn the Joker into a "hero", it's more a tragic story of how society's flaws has made a man's life fall off the deep end and both sides mistake his actions, one side see him as a sociopath who enjoys causing chaos, the other see him as a champion in cause against the establishment, in reality he's just a mentally unstable man who let the cruelty of life make him go down the deep end. It's basically it's that classic one bad day concept from Alan Moore's Batman story The Killing Joke.
I'd argue the flashbacks are necessary because they're not for US, it's Arthur fully realising just what he has been doing to himself... Absolutely brilliant movie, on so many levels. Not only did we see Joker as a broken thing, but we also saw Joker as performer. Loved it.
The second she was okay with him following her I knew they were boutta pull a Fight Club move on us.
The 1930's WTF? Also the reason the fashions look like today is because the 80's is trending as fashion today.
Also Zorro the Gay Blade came out in 1981
On newspaper headline it mentions disaster in Ukraine which is a reference to Chernobyl
right? lol, it seems a lot of younger people really have no concept of a proper timeline...they think the 70's were the 90's and the 70's are the 30's lmao
@@SpeedOfThought1111 he looks old enough to know better, clearly not though
I couldn't believe he thought it could be the 30's.
I went from feeling for the joker, to rooting for him, to "alright Batman, you need to come control your boy. He's outta control", but yet I will always understand you Joker. Deep down you have a heart, like Vader.
Thank you for mentioning the line in his journal about the mental health - very much true
During the movie I never thought about Joaquin Phoenix I just saw the joker he gave it his all and you can see it absolutely amazing movie
In the End it was him years later After the batman fights he thinks about how he created him and Thats the joke she wouldnt get Thats how i like to Think of it
me too.
Yeah, my favorite scene was him in custody in the back of the police car looking at the riots. Reminded me of that line from The Dark Knight "watch the world burn".
Surprise you guys didn't talk about the joke when he killed Murray.
prattable you watch the video at all man? try 15:15
@@banjomanmania9795 They don't specify which joke they're talking about. There was 2 jokes. I specifically meant the one when he pulls the trigger.
You mean Mur-ray 😂
He did save the girl by laughing and drawing that attention.. that gave her the opening she needed
I don't think it was intentional of him to do that, given that his laughter is unpredictable.
@@ahmadanabtawi1847 i think that he wanted to help her tho cuz he sees some rich kids being dicks to some girl .. his charecter wasnt one to have the balls to go stick up for someone else so thats where his laughter kicked in cuz of that nervousness tick of not having the balls.. but
It so happened to do the job of helping the girl like he wanted to do but couldnt .. so his disability was able to do it for him..
So not fully intentional prolly sure but i 100% believe he wanted to help that girl..
@@mikefreeman8024 I believe he wanted to too, he had good intentions before his first kill.
@@mikefreeman8024 yeah but he had no confidence to pull it of which triggered the laugh-anxiety. Which was why he almost answered the girl with "Im sorry I can't help you" with his body language
Sort of what i said tho ...
To whom it concerns My hands are shaking my heart is beating so fast and I am feeling a weird rush I’ve never felt that way after a movie! I am amazed,Scared, and entertained and my brain is all over the place, I was the only one that actually got up and started clapping at the end I feel crazy and maybe I am I don’t care or maybe it’s just because I have always been invested in this character since I was kid, if anyone is considering to watch that movie you should take it seriously! It’s enough that your own Thoughts can become dangerous so imagine if life is constantly punching you and knocking you around, this movie sparks so many mental and moral discussions and might seem like it’s justifying some stuff but In my opinion I think it is just a vague reflection of our current society and actual reality.
I loved it and there are multiple points or messages that one can take from the film and have a discussion about however unfortunately I see many individuals online are not trying to understand the point that the movie is trying to make and that is we have to be better so no one such Arthur fleck would be born, the joker can be anyone based on her or his life so be nicer to each other and that’s it
Every dark tune,just before he flips....so intens!
So many facial expressions by Joaquin!Brilliant actor!
And the scene where he confesses the killings is priceless!
A great movie.
*Joker,* best movie since 2007 'No Country for Old Men' ???
it was like he was laughing and crying at the same time, sounded like both lol
Great acting! Oscar worthy!
I absolutely loved when he told Sophie he had a bad day.
Him on the car finally getting the glory, that was fucking GOOSEBUMBS! He spread his madness in all Gotham
The thing about Jokers jokes is that they have to be read to notice how funny they are. He plays with words
i came out of the cinema and the first thing i saw was the notif about this video, perfect timing.
i loved it, the weirdest movie experience in my life. people were laughing when i was completely terrified, and it terrified me. i wanted to laugh even tho i didn't mean to.
and then i was laughing when everyone else was terrified
10/10
Fantastic breakdown and theories. Loved all of your intelligent insights and thoughts
Just saw the movie, and this discussion was fantastic. I loved the movie, it's definitely going to stick with me for a while. Thanks for the great discussion as always, Blind Wave!!!