I service my own fork and rear shock-small service. I have discussed with few fox services and they told me that occasionally bottoming out is not big deal but constant bottoming out can damage your suspension. Also constant bottoming out put aditional unnecessary stress to your frame.
Playing with sag can give you a whole new bike, when I made my 2016 Nomad into a Mullet with a 29'er fork and wheel, I had to put way more pressure in the rear to compensate for the change in angle/force to the rear shock. It's a 170mm enduro monster at near 30% sag, and an awesome XC bike at 20+% sag. best of both worlds, I love it to bits
Great insights - yes indeed - setting sag and playing with ride dynamics can completely transform a bike from good to great - pleased that you've had successful sag experiences! Are you still running the MX wheel set up? Cheers Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd Yes I am. It may make some climbs a smidgen harder but the benefits out weigh any downsides to it on Vancouver Island trails. I just set my DH bike up as a mullet as well, it turned out great... way way back in the day a lot of our DH bikes were 24"r/26"f, they loved super steep terrain
I recently started making my own dampers and air spring, on the damper side I have my two opposed shim stacks with a convex spring mounted conical valve in the center of the stack that will push all the shims closed in case fluid is pushed too hard too fast; combined with the air spring rubber bumper bottoming out is a smooth experience. *Edit. Finding the right shim numbers and size of the stack was a task but conical valve sizing was the worst, opening up and grinding a bit, switching spring rates, at least 30 times... 😅 Might no be worth it for everyone
Glad you got the Teaboy out to chat. No wonder Sprung always maintains getting your sag right from the get go, otherwise all bets are off. Had the bike quickly fettled by them during FoD fest, where small things such as declining the levers by a few more degrees to get yoru weight better distributed on descents was somewhat critical.
@@OwenBikeNerd We're spoilt for choice in the South-West on who to go to... and the fact the guys understand the sort of riding that you do, to make the right tweaks. Mind you, most local mechanics I know in FOD probably won't want to touch my bike, unless they really really have to, knowing I've taken tools to it 🙄
@@OwenBikeNerd thanks Owen , yes my bike shop calculated measurement by my weight , so run 200 psi in rear shock and 80 in front , all works within tolerance O ring tolerance markers , I check before majority of rides , bike rides really well , many thanks 👍👍
Well the amount of new videos been put up of people landing and their Fox 38s snapping at the base of the arch and shooting the damper out and Rock shox snapping from the crown and face planting I'd say yeah! The Fox 38 video's crazy guy bunnyhops in carpark test and they fail catastrophically! Same forks I have so abit concerned now 😂
I'm a lighter rider, and so getting into the sag, especially on the front, that's always been very difficult for me. I run lower than manufacturer suggested pressures to get there, but then deal with bottom out, so I usually have several air tokens in the shock and fork. My Rockshox Deluxe Select+ 195/45 has the maximum 3 tokens in order to have near proper sag and almost never bottom out, and I haven't checked yet on my DVO Topaz 210/55 (which replaced another DS+) since that shock I havent had issues with no sag yet bottom out, but that one I set the secondary air bladder slightly higher towards the middle and it seems now I cant ever bottom out (according to the O ring), yet I've had a few hucks to flat that felt/sounded like bottom out, so not sure what that's about either. Otherwise rides great tho.
3:50 this is inaccurate. The more you compress a coil spring, the more force it takes to compress it even more. They are called "linear" simply because the rate at which the needed force increases is linear, it's usually a fixed number of Newtons per cm of compression, so every cm you want to compress it further you need exactly X Newtons more than the cm before. Air springs are "progressive" because this rate of needed compression force increases slowly in the beginning but more rapidly the more you compress them. That's why they're so soft as long as they're non-compressed but "firm up" very rapidly towards max compression.
This is also why volume spacers work - They reduce the overall air volume in the air spring which essentially makes the air spring reach this "firming up" faster simply because the now smaller amount of total air is compressed sooner.
Using all suspension should not be a goal. The goal should be to have a setup that feels right - A setup that you trust. Which ever amount of travel you end up using is irrelevant. Personally I like the suspension to sit higher in its travel so the typical working range is higher up as well as less total change in geometry. It should feel efficient without chucking you all over the place. The most important thing is that you feel that it's working for you personally so that you can trust it.
I don't care about sag or bottom out. I just tune the suspension so it works best for me. I can count the occasion my forks ever bottomed out on one hand, only when i took some unexpected brutal hit. On a normal ride I usually got 20-30mm oft 170mm travel left. On the shock i don't even know but i didn't ever head or feel it bottoming out.
I paid for the whole travel, I am gonna use the whole travel (c) Seriously though, if bottoming out hurts the fork/damper it is an incorrectly designed fork/damper.
95kg with no kit on and I have 28% sag on rear, 2 tokens, 2 bands on my RS ultimate and I'm trying 1token and 20% sag on my lyriks instead of 2 tokens and 15% sag. I'm Probably gonna try 1.5 tokens and 18% as 1 token and 20% felt to soft and dived to much on steep tech. Especially when braking.
8.31 can you tell me whare the spacer came from under the stem please? Exactly what I'm looking for as have same headset shape but put the new Funn Eq v2 stem on it I need that to make it look nice and flush at the bottom cheers
I recently got a new bike, I haven't bottomed out my fork yet but on a massive rear impact I bottomed out my coil shock am I in trouble? its a spectral 150/160
Not in trouble - but perhaps time to re-look at sag levels - and if you're not yet riding the burly terrain that might fully test the bike - let us know how you get you! Cheers Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd I just added 2 clicks of HBO and it seemed to work - I will still try to find a 450 coil somewhere (its out of stock online everywhere lol)
My fork is making this clicking noise when i bottom it out (i have to do it a few times so it starts making it) and when im not on the bike and try to compress it theres no noise and i dont know whats the cause. Can anyone help me?
Had to rewatch the volume spacer part of this video. I am 90+ kg and my tuner said to add volume spacers on my xc fork. I was confused why you would do the same thing for someone super light. Makes sense though. It is not that light riders and heavy riders have the same soloution to the same problem, it is that they have two different problems that can be solved with the same thing....
No, don’t put volume spacers for heavier riders! Review the vid, a heavier rider needs all the air cushion volume he can get to slow the rider down when compressing!
@@stevendegreef93 I did. Twice. The reason a lighter rider needs volume spacers is that the pressure in the suspension is so low that it blows through its travel. The reason a heavy rider needs volume spacers is that they have so much mass that they blow through the travel. You need a more progressive setup in either case to prevent bottoming....
@@nmcgregor1990 Other bloggers apologise when the picture is not crispy or slightly blurry. Here is good content, but it is a blurry mess picture when watching it on full screen in 2024...
Haven’t watched the video yet. But I just run my suspension on the edge of bottoming out. Then on the odd ocassion on something super big I do bottom out fully. I do run 3 tokens tho
Many of the air shocks that use a simple o-ring - internally to prevent damage under harsh bottom out do have the advantage of progressive spring curve - so it should be a rare occurrence - but you right its surprisingly light on protection. Cheers Owen
![[LIVE] BABYMONSTER(베이비몬스터) - DRIP | 두시탈출 컬투쇼](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UG05pxLGwzc/mqdefault.jpg)
I service my own fork and rear shock-small service. I have discussed with few fox services and they told me that occasionally bottoming out is not big deal but constant bottoming out can damage your suspension. Also constant bottoming out put aditional unnecessary stress to your frame.
Bottom out by smoothly using all the travel: 😊
Bottom out by absolutely clanking the bottom: ☠️
It's better to bottom every now and then, than to not use your full travel in fear of bottoming out
Perfect is to use 99.9% of travel with only bottoming out once in a while
Playing with sag can give you a whole new bike, when I made my 2016 Nomad into a Mullet with a 29'er fork and wheel, I had to put way more pressure in the rear to compensate for the change in angle/force to the rear shock. It's a 170mm enduro monster at near 30% sag, and an awesome XC bike at 20+% sag. best of both worlds, I love it to bits
Great insights - yes indeed - setting sag and playing with ride dynamics can completely transform a bike from good to great - pleased that you've had successful sag experiences! Are you still running the MX wheel set up?
Cheers
Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd Yes I am. It may make some climbs a smidgen harder but the benefits out weigh any downsides to it on Vancouver Island trails. I just set my DH bike up as a mullet as well, it turned out great... way way back in the day a lot of our DH bikes were 24"r/26"f, they loved super steep terrain
I've got a 2015 nomad and I'm very interested in banging a coil on and mx'ing her.....
You should send this in to Bike Vault
5:10 Trophy Trucks use hydraulic bump stops not leverage rate changing linkages
Yep i always bottom out my fork and rear shock
I recently started making my own dampers and air spring, on the damper side I have my two opposed shim stacks with a convex spring mounted conical valve in the center of the stack that will push all the shims closed in case fluid is pushed too hard too fast; combined with the air spring rubber bumper bottoming out is a smooth experience.
*Edit. Finding the right shim numbers and size of the stack was a task but conical valve sizing was the worst, opening up and grinding a bit, switching spring rates, at least 30 times... 😅
Might no be worth it for everyone
Do you have a video or blog post or anything planned about this?
Sounds interesting!
wow, the best explanation on this topic
Glad you got the Teaboy out to chat. No wonder Sprung always maintains getting your sag right from the get go, otherwise all bets are off. Had the bike quickly fettled by them during FoD fest, where small things such as declining the levers by a few more degrees to get yoru weight better distributed on descents was somewhat critical.
Jake's an expert and great bloke too!
glad you're a fan too!
Cheers
Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd We're spoilt for choice in the South-West on who to go to... and the fact the guys understand the sort of riding that you do, to make the right tweaks. Mind you, most local mechanics I know in FOD probably won't want to touch my bike, unless they really really have to, knowing I've taken tools to it 🙄
Great video! 💯 You should change the title though, because the video covers so much more than bottoming out.
Thank you - glad it was more in depth than the title suggested!
Cheers
Owen
15.10 wow.. The chain actually hit the ground.
😂
Thats the "Don" riding - so stylish - and fast!
Cheers
Owen
Thanks chaps , very informative 👍👍
Excellent - glad that this helped - have you set you sag already?
Cheers
Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd thanks Owen , yes my bike shop calculated measurement by my weight , so run 200 psi in rear shock and 80 in front , all works within tolerance O ring tolerance markers , I check before majority of rides , bike rides really well , many thanks 👍👍
yes! and too much tokens is also hell sometimes 🙂
Well the amount of new videos been put up of people landing and their Fox 38s snapping at the base of the arch and shooting the damper out and Rock shox snapping from the crown and face planting I'd say yeah! The Fox 38 video's crazy guy bunnyhops in carpark test and they fail catastrophically! Same forks I have so abit concerned now 😂
I'm a lighter rider, and so getting into the sag, especially on the front, that's always been very difficult for me. I run lower than manufacturer suggested pressures to get there, but then deal with bottom out, so I usually have several air tokens in the shock and fork. My Rockshox Deluxe Select+ 195/45 has the maximum 3 tokens in order to have near proper sag and almost never bottom out, and I haven't checked yet on my DVO Topaz 210/55 (which replaced another DS+) since that shock I havent had issues with no sag yet bottom out, but that one I set the secondary air bladder slightly higher towards the middle and it seems now I cant ever bottom out (according to the O ring), yet I've had a few hucks to flat that felt/sounded like bottom out, so not sure what that's about either. Otherwise rides great tho.
3:50 this is inaccurate. The more you compress a coil spring, the more force it takes to compress it even more. They are called "linear" simply because the rate at which the needed force increases is linear, it's usually a fixed number of Newtons per cm of compression, so every cm you want to compress it further you need exactly X Newtons more than the cm before.
Air springs are "progressive" because this rate of needed compression force increases slowly in the beginning but more rapidly the more you compress them. That's why they're so soft as long as they're non-compressed but "firm up" very rapidly towards max compression.
This is also why volume spacers work - They reduce the overall air volume in the air spring which essentially makes the air spring reach this "firming up" faster simply because the now smaller amount of total air is compressed sooner.
My rigid is perpetually bottomed out.
Or is it always topped out?
Cheers
Owen
Using all suspension should not be a goal. The goal should be to have a setup that feels right - A setup that you trust. Which ever amount of travel you end up using is irrelevant.
Personally I like the suspension to sit higher in its travel so the typical working range is higher up as well as less total change in geometry. It should feel efficient without chucking you all over the place. The most important thing is that you feel that it's working for you personally so that you can trust it.
I don't care about sag or bottom out. I just tune the suspension so it works best for me. I can count the occasion my forks ever bottomed out on one hand, only when i took some unexpected brutal hit. On a normal ride I usually got 20-30mm oft 170mm travel left. On the shock i don't even know but i didn't ever head or feel it bottoming out.
I had to do a complete rebuild of my Rockshox Boxxer Ultimate because i went too long in a drop and also nose heavy...
I paid for the whole travel, I am gonna use the whole travel (c)
Seriously though, if bottoming out hurts the fork/damper it is an incorrectly designed fork/damper.
The usual pick two out of: Affordable, Light, Durable applies.
95kg with no kit on and I have 28% sag on rear, 2 tokens, 2 bands on my RS ultimate and I'm trying 1token and 20% sag on my lyriks instead of 2 tokens and 15% sag. I'm Probably gonna try 1.5 tokens and 18% as 1 token and 20% felt to soft and dived to much on steep tech. Especially when braking.
8.31 can you tell me whare the spacer came from under the stem please? Exactly what I'm looking for as have same headset shape but put the new Funn Eq v2 stem on it I need that to make it look nice and flush at the bottom cheers
Coil shocks>>>>
I recently got a new bike, I haven't bottomed out my fork yet but on a massive rear impact I bottomed out my coil shock am I in trouble? its a spectral 150/160
Not in trouble - but perhaps time to re-look at sag levels - and if you're not yet riding the burly terrain that might fully test the bike - let us know how you get you!
Cheers
Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd I just added 2 clicks of HBO and it seemed to work - I will still try to find a 450 coil somewhere (its out of stock online everywhere lol)
Bottoming out your fork may be hazardous to your *dental* health. 😉😬😆
My fork is making this clicking noise when i bottom it out (i have to do it a few times so it starts making it) and when im not on the bike and try to compress it theres no noise and i dont know whats the cause. Can anyone help me?
Had to rewatch the volume spacer part of this video.
I am 90+ kg and my tuner said to add volume spacers on my xc fork.
I was confused why you would do the same thing for someone super light. Makes sense though.
It is not that light riders and heavy riders have the same soloution to the same problem, it is that they have two different problems that can be solved with the same thing....
No, don’t put volume spacers for heavier riders! Review the vid, a heavier rider needs all the air cushion volume he can get to slow the rider down when compressing!
@@stevendegreef93 I did. Twice.
The reason a lighter rider needs volume spacers is that the pressure in the suspension is so low that it blows through its travel.
The reason a heavy rider needs volume spacers is that they have so much mass that they blow through the travel.
You need a more progressive setup in either case to prevent bottoming....
When 4k?
OmG ItS not iN 4K! SO low QuAlItY!
Get a grip.
@@nmcgregor1990 Other bloggers apologise when the picture is not crispy or slightly blurry. Here is good content, but it is a blurry mess picture when watching it on full screen in 2024...
@bsv01 I think you need an eye test. It really isn't blurry or if it has been blurry its in shots showing action or fast movement.
@@nmcgregor1990 to be fair even though it is 1080p - and 1080p can look sharp - the quality of this video takes me back to 2009.
Haven’t watched the video yet. But I just run my suspension on the edge of bottoming out. Then on the odd ocassion on something super big I do bottom out fully. I do run 3 tokens tho
It’s poor design to have nothing more than an o-ring to prevent damage when bottoming out. In my opinion, at least
Many of the air shocks that use a simple o-ring - internally to prevent damage under harsh bottom out do have the advantage of progressive spring curve - so it should be a rare occurrence - but you right its surprisingly light on protection.
Cheers
Owen
No. It must means you have to tune your suspension better
I need Owen’s diet! He lost 5kg in the space of this video 🤣
it was a long day.
also bonus points for spotting my error - I'll try harder next time - sorry!
Cheers
Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd Haha! Love your videos! Great insights 👍
I like less sag in the rear shock. In the front I set it at 20%
Also, video should rather be called "all about that sag"
yeah bottoming out was not discussed at all
I paid for 150mm of travel I'm gonna use 150mm of travel
My Enve carbon fork never bottoms out even on the hardest hits.
No, bottoming out full force is good for your bike....
Is the slackness of Owen's helmet chin strap triggering anyone else? 🤣
Sorry - I'll tighten it up!
Cheers
Owen
That was the WORST explanation of linear vs progressive that I've ever encounter. And I'm telling that as an engineer...
I thought bottoming out waas some lgbtp+ technique.
Quit abusing the english language with horrible foreign accent.
I'm confused; how can Owen be abusing the English language "with horrible foreign accent" when he has an English accent?
that's right! You do understand. 🫡