Love the rundown of your list with the reasoning for your choices. Not a Dwarfs player (yet), but it's valuable to hear your thought process all the same. Keep it up!
Finally a solid Lizardmen army with a good number of Skinks. How cheap and efficient they are with these poison blowpipes was actually the first thing I noticed when I saw new rules for Lizardmen, so I was quite shocked to see that nobody on YT was using massed Skinks in their battle reports. Great reports, thanks!
But he played them not well, should have charged the guns so he doesnt loose his Monsters. And also should have screened for his warriors while closing in on the rangers
I'm the lizard player - charging the guns with skinks is very unreliable! They hit on 4s and wound on 5s while the crew hit on 3s and wound on 3s, and if they lose they have to take a Break test on Ld5 (with no Cold Blooded to help them). Poisoning the war machines down with javelins gives them 1 more turn to shoot but is almost guaranteed to take them off rather than risk a coin flip combat (as you saw with the Terradon). One of the advantages of dwarf artillery crew being tough as nails! (I think at the point the skinks get in charge range the dinos are into melee too so they don't have a high-value shot to try to stop). Great video Andy :) was a pleasure to play against your army!
Your videos are great and I love your old school dwarf army! But I was wondering if you have ever considered taking Allies to boost the effectiveness of the gunline, increase the dynamics of the gameplay, and pad out some of the dwarfs' weaknesses? You mentioned you were collecting Bretonnia, but I think the better choice for dwarf allies is Empire for the utility, the fact they are CHEAP, they can both open up new options, and supplement your own forces in the same role. For 500 points(250pts in characters, 125pts+ core, and 125pts special/rare) you can bring a surprising amount of them. First off, for that 250pts of characters you can bring: - 3 Captains on Pegasus to act as a flying squadron of charge redirectors, chaff clearers, to stop enemies marching, flank/rear chargers, and as wizard/warmachine hunters. Generally you'd take them with full plate and either shield/lance or braces of pistols(at BS5 and +1A/-1AP) to harass and distract the enemy. -A Captain on Griffon for your own big flying terror causing monster. -A War Alter for doubling up on anit-magic bubbles creating a cumulative -3 to cast for enemy wizards in the bubble against your dwarf units, which should make dispelling much easier, and of course it's a chariot for those sweet impact hits. Another possible general option is that you can take a Lvl4 Wizard Lord on Pegasus with the Lore Familiar and the Ruby Ring of Ruin as a hero for under 250pts! Which opens up massive possibilities whatever lore you chose: -Battle Magic for double Fireball, the Curse of Arrow Attraction to reroll 1s for ALL shooting against a single unit, and Arcane Urgency to double move your hammerers or even triple move with the Anvil. -Daemonology for some GREAT buff/hex spells and Steed of Shadows to give your Hammerers Fly12 to march them 24" across the board loaded up with anti-charge runes into a choke point or in the face of a worrisome enemy cavalry/monster/deathstar unit turn 1 -Illusion for board control; the Column of Crystal impassable terrain vortex(which is also impassable for flyers since vortexes are infinitely tall) and Mystifying Miasma that makes an enemy unit unable to charge so they literally just stand there while you shoot them. Empire also gives you interesting Special/Rare options: -Replacing one of your Dwarf Cannons with a Great Cannon(125pts), which is just better in every way. -units of Pistoleers or Outriders for a mobile ranged distraction option that can finish off 1 wound units your enemies run away to save points. -a small unit of drilled Inner Circle Knights with a Priest of Ulric to march up a flank and present a rear charge threat to enemy units rushing your gunline. Or the vast amount of options offered by cheap core units: -a regiment and detachment of Hand-gunners that can both Stand and Shoot if one is charged, to replace your Thunders -small units of vanguarding skirmisher Archers to play charge interference for your gunline, replace units of rangers/quarrelers, and increase your drop count so you can place your artillery where you need it most. -Empire Knights to include some cavalry and give your army a mobility/counter-charge option that fulfills the core requirement. -or even just a 20-40 man brick of Halberdiers or Spearmen with an optional BSB Captain and/or General to act as an anvil to your Hammerers, and who can also take a handgun or counter-charge detachment for support. Another nice thing about how generic Empire units are, is that you can VERY easily proxy an entire Allied contingent one to one with other army's models. For example: Bretonnia You can take Pegasus Knights for Pegasus Captains, Bretonnian Knights for Empire Knights, a Maiden on Pegasus for your Wizard Lord, Peasant Longbows for skirmishing Archers, Men at Arms for Halberdiers, just use your cool old school Dwarf Cannon model for a great cannon with peasant models from the Trebuchet crew, and your Dwarf Thunderers can stand in for Empire Handgunners. All without your opponent practically even noticing the difference. Allies offer a cornucopia of fun and flavorful possibilities. It is a legal and in my opinion a well balanced rule set, that I sadly don't see any Old World players taking advantage of yet. You should consider trying some of these options out for your next battle report or even tournament! Good luck and keep making great videos!
Hopefully the Arcane Journal gives the Dwarfs the boost they need, but I wouldn't rule out future allies. I have already been pondering the Mercenary Ogres.
@@Andy2D6 If you have spare models to proxy, there's literally no downside to atleast trying out new combinations, and I get the feeling that once you try using Allies, you'll never turn back because of the spectrum of possibilities it opens up tactically and narratively for a universally recognized underpowered army to atleast be brought up to par with the options all of the other factions have available to them in the Old World. It will at the very least make for interesting content using a mechanic that none of the other Warhammer Old World TH-camrs are exploring. I wish you great success with the First Alliance of Dwarves and Men!
@@Andy2D6 You could also include Empire Allies using only dwarf models for example: -Wizard Lord(Lvl4 w/ the Flying Carpet and Ruby Ring or Lore Familiar) proxied with a SkyWarden aka "Ballon Guy" model from the Age of Sigmar Kharadron Overlords range. or take him or on foot using the Aetheric Navigator model from the same range(to save points for a Captain on Warhorse to accompany your knights) -5 or 6 Empire Knights(depending on upgrades/command) using the dwarfs on mountain goats models from the Highland Miniatures Sons of Ymir range. -Great Cannon using the cannon you have; or opt for a unit of Inner Circle Knights using the same mountain goat cavalry or the dwarf heavy bear cavalry models from the Highland Miniatures Sons of Ymir range. That should come in nicely to 500 points and only 6-12 models for minimum time/money investment and maximum tactical benefit to your gunline army without incurring any grudges from your opponents or tournament organizers.
Hi Andy, I’m really enjoying your videos. Your comments give a lot of insights on tactics and on how to use the Dwarfs. One observation: you have mentioned a couple of times how odd it is that a warmachine flees through units - however per my interpretation of the rule “We’re Not Paid to Fight” (rulebook page 197) war machines are destroyed after break and flee. What do you think?
Just finished game 3. First game was very enjoyable, I thought you might have more trouble than you did with the mix of skirmishers and monsters, but it worked out OK. I guess that the monsters are at least not unkillable, would be interested to see more of Lizardmen and how they work tactically. Second game obviously went well, was a bit surprised the Bretonnian flying heroes weren't more destructive. Nice to see your Dwarfs get a solid win, seemed like you chose your targets well and played a good game. Third game you said you weren't going to shoot the dragon and then when turn 2 came along which was always going to be your best opportunity for a big turn of shooting it seems you stuck most of it into the dragon. If you hadn't done that I'm very confident you would still have lost, but you would surely have got rid of some of his other stuff and lost by less. Thought things might also have gone a bit better on your right flank - looked like you maybe didn't have a lot of luck there. On the left the business with the Rangers obviously didn't do a lot for your cause! Couple of things I'm curious about. We haven't heard much about the Irondrakes/Trollhammer shooting - we've seen a lot of moving around, fleeing, charging etc from them recently. How are they getting on? I'm guessing they're doing damage that isn't getting mentioned much as they probably aren't wiping anything out on their own, but would be good to know what you think of their efforts, whether they've been hindered by having to move them more than you want to etc. Similarly I've been wondering about the Anvil's magic missile - is it getting much done or is it just getting dispelled a lot/rolling low?
I see now that the Trollhammers had a bit of a day in the sun against the Dark Elves and you tell us at the end that otherwise you just rolled badly with them which makes sense. Another thing I've been wondering about is whether there's much benefit in fielding them in slightly bigger units - I notice you have a bit of a hum and hah about that at the end as a possibility. The FAQ about unit strength to get the close order bonus makes me wonder if I should be thinking of fielding them in units of 6-8 to try to make sure they get it, partly because I keep seeing yours end up in combat a lot and think it's going to be unavoidable. They've got good armour so I'm thinking being able to take a couple of casualties might be enough. Haven't got any models for them yet as I'm still trying to come up with an idea that will look good with my 80s metal Dwarfs, the proper models just look like they belong in a different army completely (or in the bin). Got some drake gun arms off Ebay with a view to cutting the arms off and trying to fit the guns on some old crossbow dwarfs I've got, but the guns are just too fat. Hoping I'll spot something from a different supplier that I like, but no luck so far.
I routinely rolled 1s to hit or wound with the Trollhammers at the event... or I rolled a 1 for the D3 wounds caused. I will be experimenting with unit sizes, since my Trollhammers haven't been too earth-shattering, I'm less concerned about maximising the number of them on the table. Irondrakes have been good overall. Their stand & shoot is very scary, particularly to small units with single wound models. The Anvil's magic missile is great. 27" range is unusual and more likely to be out of dispel range early in the game, but still able to hit something. Guaranteed AP -2 is very nice, and the lack of hit rolls make it useful against skirmishers or units in cover.
Nice vid. WRT Unbreakable/Immune to Psych I think all Unbreakable units have Immune to Psych, but not all Immune to Psych are also unbreakable (e.g. Ancient Stegadon).
@@Andy2D6 absolutely. I think the physical copies of the rule is very poorly laid out which exacerbates the problem. I'm just glad there is the online version.
If you are referring to this: Q: Can a cannon be shot in such a way as to hit an enemy unit that is engaged in combat with a friendly unit? A: No. Page 143 of the rulebook makes it clear that, except in rare cases, units cannot shoot enemy units that are engaged in combat. In the case of cannon, this means the target point cannot be placed in such a way as to risk the cannonball hitting a friendly unit, or an enemy unit engaged in combat with a friendly unit. this doesn't answer the question, as there's no risk of hitting the friendly unit as the cannonball will always either get stuck on one side or sail over to the other side of the line formation (moving a minimum of 2"). I guess TO was right to allow it in this case.
Nice show - I like the depth you go to. But I think cannons can't pursue (30 minute mark) pg 197 Weapons of War: "War machines are built to be strong and durable rather than for speed and, as such, they are slow and cumbersome to move once erected. To represent this, war machines cannot march, declare a charge or make a pursuit move. Additionally, war machines suffer a -1 modifier to the result of any Flee roll they make (to a minimum of 1). However, a war machine can pivot freely at any time during its turn (the better to face the enemy) and may make a follow up move as normal. Should a war machine pivot, it does not count as having moved."
I love the model you have for your Miners' champion by the way. You probably already know this, but for those who don't that model (as part of Dwarf Lords of Legend and also in the 'Five Sample Armies' mail order pamphlet that came with the original 2nd Ed Ravening Hordes) rejoices in the old-school-Warhammer pun name 'Uther Naizur'. Sadly the rules for Miners mean that he's unlikely to be able to do much to help put you out of your misery... I was going to use him as a miners' champion myself until I realised miners weren't very good, the rest of the unit being late 80s Sappers. They actually built stuff on the battlefield during the game in 3rd Ed though it was unlikely that they would do so quickly enough for it to be all that useful. I think I'll be redeploying them as war machine crew and will have to find a different unit for Uther to champion or relegate him to Longbeard/Hammerer/Warrior status, not sure which.
@@Andy2D6 I think you could call at least two of them Slayers. There's the obvious one (Kimril Giant Slayer) who is sometimes thought of as the first Slayer figure due to his look and name though at time of release he would have been fielded as a Beserker. The other one is Throbin Deatheye who looks mad as a badger and has two hand weapons. He was a Beserker hero in that Ravening Hordes army and that's good enough for me. Annoyingly I haven't been able to get either of those two yet at a price I'm prepared to pay though I have five of the others. Out of those I might still field Lastro Lupintal in amongst my beserker/slayers and also Angus just because he's Scottish.
As you more or less say yourself some less than brilliant rules on show assuming they were played correctly and I've no reason to think they weren't. War Machines fleeing is nonsense of the highest order especially when combined with the popping through friendly units business that was shown up in your previous report with your teleporting Hammerers. Don't blame you in the least for doing it though as it's there in the rules and your war machine crew should be able to flee and if they get the opportunity return to the machine and there is no mechanism for them to do this. The thing with the cannon and the rangers I can't really get along with. I know it's a tournament and you're supposed to try to win etc but it looks too much like deliberately abusing a badly written rule to me. The cannon rules are silly in that the point on the ground you supposedly 'aim' at is clearly not what you aim at as if that were the case then it would be possible to undershoot as well as overshoot. Given that the cannon overshoots the nominated point every time (unless there's a misfire) it's nonsense to say the original point is being aimed at in any meaningful sense. You know yourself that the point you're really aiming at is beyond the Rangers and that you don't have line of sight to it. I suspect it comes from trying to devise a system for cannons that uses the same dice as stonethrowers and that years ago this was the best they managed to come up with without making the cannon even more accurate (I believe there's always been criticism that it's too accurate as it is). Seems pretty obvious you're really supposed to have line of sight to a point on the ground in front of the unit you're targeting with nothing in between the two. I get that if the rules allow it then it isn't cheating and there are lots of wonky rules that will be getting used by people to their advantage, but I don't think this is the way to go - if there isn't anything that stops it in the rules already I hope it gets FAQ'd out even though I want to use a cannon.
War Machines fleeing is really messy, as is the entire concept of bouncing through units to reach their final destination. I think the idea is that the cannonball sails quite high through the air until it lands on that exact spot, at which point it bounces, rather than a flat trajectory. They could easily clear it up by stating "The path of the cannonball, starting with the nominated point on the ground, and 20 inches beyond it in a straight line, may not pass over friendly units or enemy units engaged in combat with friendly units." While we were pondering what options the cannon had during that turn, my opponent actually suggested that I could nominate the spot behind my own thin line of troops. It feels weird, but at the moment it seems to be allowed.
@@Andy2D6 I think the idea about the trajectory is absolutely how they envisage it, but that just makes for a reasonable argument that you shouldn't need line of sight at all i.e. you should be able to fire over your own troops however many ranks of them there are and even over enemy units into other ones behind them. However, rightly or wrongly the rules do require line of sight so given that that requirement is there it still seems off to try to fiddle a way of targeting units when you don't have it. I know you're not trying to cheat and I also realise there was very little advantage to be gained in this instance either way, I just do see it as trying to get round the rules rather than thinking about their purpose more than anything else. For what it's worth I do think it should be possible to fire more speculatively, but I also think it should be possible to miss left or right as well as short or long so the rules for cannons are unsatisfactory (mainly for the sake of simplicity which is sort of fair enough) and those of us with cannons should probably accept the downsides as well as the upsides. I agree they can sort it out with a statement like the one you suggest, but I suspect that isn't there mainly because they haven't thought of people trying these sort of shenanigans rather than them thinking using the inbuilt automatic overshoot in this way to be part of the design.
The rules for evading charges are ridiculous in this system. Having a crew take their gun with them is just plain stupid (footmen evading much faster cavalry is also lame, but to a little lesser extent). Bumping magically through your other units is also really asinine. Fantasy gaming systems should be consistent with the rules of physics (and magic) in their own universe. These rules seem to violate that, as last I checked, there is nothing in the Warhammer universe that would dictate combatants and their weapons automatically teleporting from one side of a battlefield to the other just because you rolled well; it is hard to imagine how this can be interpreted as just another abstraction to aid in play. In Dragon Rampant, for example, you take a casualty for every inch you should have retreated, but couldn't due to another unit interfering, and that is also kind of silly for a skirmish level game but makes a lot more sense in a rank and file game like this. The way Old World does their fleeting before a charge is the worst I have seen in any fantasy minis system, it's like GW wrote it so they would have more rationale for amending their rules, as they love to do so you buy more rules that you already purchased.
Bouncing through other units and popping out the other side is definitely bad rules, in my opinion. I'm not sure what alternative I'd pitch, since units blocking each other in place would create its own set of problems. Maybe fleeing units emerge out of the passed-through unit in a random direction, to better represent the chaos of fleeing through other units.
@@Andy2D6 I do like that idea of randomising the direction, assuming it would only leave you behind the battle line.… But any crew served weapons should be left behind. Cannons should be spike-able if a unit chooses not to pursue. Also an extra morale check if a fleeing unit passes through would be a bit more realistic.
Love the rundown of your list with the reasoning for your choices. Not a Dwarfs player (yet), but it's valuable to hear your thought process all the same. Keep it up!
Finally a solid Lizardmen army with a good number of Skinks. How cheap and efficient they are with these poison blowpipes was actually the first thing I noticed when I saw new rules for Lizardmen, so I was quite shocked to see that nobody on YT was using massed Skinks in their battle reports.
Great reports, thanks!
It was fun to see them in action, especially the classic Stegadons.
They are absolut gold in every match i had. They easily kill a Giant with their javelins, while outmanouvering him and costing a fraction
But he played them not well, should have charged the guns so he doesnt loose his Monsters. And also should have screened for his warriors while closing in on the rangers
I'm the lizard player - charging the guns with skinks is very unreliable! They hit on 4s and wound on 5s while the crew hit on 3s and wound on 3s, and if they lose they have to take a Break test on Ld5 (with no Cold Blooded to help them). Poisoning the war machines down with javelins gives them 1 more turn to shoot but is almost guaranteed to take them off rather than risk a coin flip combat (as you saw with the Terradon). One of the advantages of dwarf artillery crew being tough as nails! (I think at the point the skinks get in charge range the dinos are into melee too so they don't have a high-value shot to try to stop).
Great video Andy :) was a pleasure to play against your army!
Love the lizards pip!
Love these videos ! I think you mentioned the anvil having 3 attacks .. it actually has 5 attacks :)
Yes. That is my mistake.
Great video, love the army
Your videos are great and I love your old school dwarf army!
But I was wondering if you have ever considered taking Allies to boost the effectiveness of the gunline, increase the dynamics of the gameplay, and pad out some of the dwarfs' weaknesses?
You mentioned you were collecting Bretonnia, but I think the better choice for dwarf allies is Empire for the utility, the fact they are CHEAP, they can both open up new options, and supplement your own forces in the same role.
For 500 points(250pts in characters, 125pts+ core, and 125pts special/rare) you can bring a surprising amount of them.
First off, for that 250pts of characters you can bring:
- 3 Captains on Pegasus to act as a flying squadron of charge redirectors, chaff clearers, to stop enemies marching, flank/rear chargers, and as wizard/warmachine hunters. Generally you'd take them with full plate and either shield/lance or braces of pistols(at BS5 and +1A/-1AP) to harass and distract the enemy.
-A Captain on Griffon for your own big flying terror causing monster.
-A War Alter for doubling up on anit-magic bubbles creating a cumulative -3 to cast for enemy wizards in the bubble against your dwarf units, which should make dispelling much easier, and of course it's a chariot for those sweet impact hits.
Another possible general option is that you can take a Lvl4 Wizard Lord on Pegasus with the Lore Familiar and the Ruby Ring of Ruin as a hero for under 250pts! Which opens up massive possibilities whatever lore you chose:
-Battle Magic for double Fireball, the Curse of Arrow Attraction to reroll 1s for ALL shooting against a single unit, and Arcane Urgency to double move your hammerers or even triple move with the Anvil.
-Daemonology for some GREAT buff/hex spells and Steed of Shadows to give your Hammerers Fly12 to march them 24" across the board loaded up with anti-charge runes into a choke point or in the face of a worrisome enemy cavalry/monster/deathstar unit turn 1
-Illusion for board control; the Column of Crystal impassable terrain vortex(which is also impassable for flyers since vortexes are infinitely tall) and Mystifying Miasma that makes an enemy unit unable to charge so they literally just stand there while you shoot them.
Empire also gives you interesting Special/Rare options:
-Replacing one of your Dwarf Cannons with a Great Cannon(125pts), which is just better in every way.
-units of Pistoleers or Outriders for a mobile ranged distraction option that can finish off 1 wound units your enemies run away to save points.
-a small unit of drilled Inner Circle Knights with a Priest of Ulric to march up a flank and present a rear charge threat to enemy units rushing your gunline.
Or the vast amount of options offered by cheap core units:
-a regiment and detachment of Hand-gunners that can both Stand and Shoot if one is charged, to replace your Thunders
-small units of vanguarding skirmisher Archers to play charge interference for your gunline, replace units of rangers/quarrelers, and increase your drop count so you can place your artillery where you need it most.
-Empire Knights to include some cavalry and give your army a mobility/counter-charge option that fulfills the core requirement.
-or even just a 20-40 man brick of Halberdiers or Spearmen with an optional BSB Captain and/or General to act as an anvil to your Hammerers, and who can also take a handgun or counter-charge detachment for support.
Another nice thing about how generic Empire units are, is that you can VERY easily proxy an entire Allied contingent one to one with other army's models.
For example: Bretonnia
You can take Pegasus Knights for Pegasus Captains, Bretonnian Knights for Empire Knights, a Maiden on Pegasus for your Wizard Lord, Peasant Longbows for skirmishing Archers, Men at Arms for Halberdiers, just use your cool old school Dwarf Cannon model for a great cannon with peasant models from the Trebuchet crew, and your Dwarf Thunderers can stand in for Empire Handgunners. All without your opponent practically even noticing the difference.
Allies offer a cornucopia of fun and flavorful possibilities. It is a legal and in my opinion a well balanced rule set, that I sadly don't see any Old World players taking advantage of yet. You should consider trying some of these options out for your next battle report or even tournament!
Good luck and keep making great videos!
Hopefully the Arcane Journal gives the Dwarfs the boost they need, but I wouldn't rule out future allies. I have already been pondering the Mercenary Ogres.
@@Andy2D6 If you have spare models to proxy, there's literally no downside to atleast trying out new combinations, and I get the feeling that once you try using Allies, you'll never turn back because of the spectrum of possibilities it opens up tactically and narratively for a universally recognized underpowered army to atleast be brought up to par with the options all of the other factions have available to them in the Old World.
It will at the very least make for interesting content using a mechanic that none of the other Warhammer Old World TH-camrs are exploring.
I wish you great success with the First Alliance of Dwarves and Men!
@@Andy2D6 You could also include Empire Allies using only dwarf models
for example:
-Wizard Lord(Lvl4 w/ the Flying Carpet and Ruby Ring or Lore Familiar) proxied with a SkyWarden aka "Ballon Guy" model from the Age of Sigmar Kharadron Overlords range.
or take him or on foot using the Aetheric Navigator model from the same range(to save points for a Captain on Warhorse to accompany your knights)
-5 or 6 Empire Knights(depending on upgrades/command) using the dwarfs on mountain goats models from the Highland Miniatures Sons of Ymir range.
-Great Cannon using the cannon you have;
or opt for a unit of Inner Circle Knights using the same mountain goat cavalry or the dwarf heavy bear cavalry models from the Highland Miniatures Sons of Ymir range.
That should come in nicely to 500 points and only 6-12 models for minimum time/money investment and maximum tactical benefit to your gunline army without incurring any grudges from your opponents or tournament organizers.
Hi Andy, I’m really enjoying your videos. Your comments give a lot of insights on tactics and on how to use the Dwarfs. One observation: you have mentioned a couple of times how odd it is that a warmachine flees through units - however per my interpretation of the rule “We’re Not Paid to Fight” (rulebook page 197) war machines are destroyed after break and flee. What do you think?
That's when they break from combat. They do have rules specifically mentioning fleeing, so they can do it outside of combat.
@@Andy2D6 I can see the ‘break’ part makes the difference and outside combat they can flee, thanks!
I mentioned Ritchy's dwarf army being Avatars of War but you are correct about them being Highland minis! my bad..
Just finished game 3. First game was very enjoyable, I thought you might have more trouble than you did with the mix of skirmishers and monsters, but it worked out OK. I guess that the monsters are at least not unkillable, would be interested to see more of Lizardmen and how they work tactically.
Second game obviously went well, was a bit surprised the Bretonnian flying heroes weren't more destructive. Nice to see your Dwarfs get a solid win, seemed like you chose your targets well and played a good game.
Third game you said you weren't going to shoot the dragon and then when turn 2 came along which was always going to be your best opportunity for a big turn of shooting it seems you stuck most of it into the dragon. If you hadn't done that I'm very confident you would still have lost, but you would surely have got rid of some of his other stuff and lost by less. Thought things might also have gone a bit better on your right flank - looked like you maybe didn't have a lot of luck there. On the left the business with the Rangers obviously didn't do a lot for your cause!
Couple of things I'm curious about. We haven't heard much about the Irondrakes/Trollhammer shooting - we've seen a lot of moving around, fleeing, charging etc from them recently. How are they getting on? I'm guessing they're doing damage that isn't getting mentioned much as they probably aren't wiping anything out on their own, but would be good to know what you think of their efforts, whether they've been hindered by having to move them more than you want to etc. Similarly I've been wondering about the Anvil's magic missile - is it getting much done or is it just getting dispelled a lot/rolling low?
I see now that the Trollhammers had a bit of a day in the sun against the Dark Elves and you tell us at the end that otherwise you just rolled badly with them which makes sense. Another thing I've been wondering about is whether there's much benefit in fielding them in slightly bigger units - I notice you have a bit of a hum and hah about that at the end as a possibility. The FAQ about unit strength to get the close order bonus makes me wonder if I should be thinking of fielding them in units of 6-8 to try to make sure they get it, partly because I keep seeing yours end up in combat a lot and think it's going to be unavoidable. They've got good armour so I'm thinking being able to take a couple of casualties might be enough. Haven't got any models for them yet as I'm still trying to come up with an idea that will look good with my 80s metal Dwarfs, the proper models just look like they belong in a different army completely (or in the bin). Got some drake gun arms off Ebay with a view to cutting the arms off and trying to fit the guns on some old crossbow dwarfs I've got, but the guns are just too fat. Hoping I'll spot something from a different supplier that I like, but no luck so far.
I routinely rolled 1s to hit or wound with the Trollhammers at the event... or I rolled a 1 for the D3 wounds caused. I will be experimenting with unit sizes, since my Trollhammers haven't been too earth-shattering, I'm less concerned about maximising the number of them on the table.
Irondrakes have been good overall. Their stand & shoot is very scary, particularly to small units with single wound models.
The Anvil's magic missile is great. 27" range is unusual and more likely to be out of dispel range early in the game, but still able to hit something. Guaranteed AP -2 is very nice, and the lack of hit rolls make it useful against skirmishers or units in cover.
Nice vid. WRT Unbreakable/Immune to Psych I think all Unbreakable units have Immune to Psych, but not all Immune to Psych are also unbreakable (e.g. Ancient Stegadon).
There are a few examples of these layered rules that can be confusing. Fear/Terror is another.
@@Andy2D6 absolutely. I think the physical copies of the rule is very poorly laid out which exacerbates the problem. I'm just glad there is the online version.
I paypaled you more for the Gyrocopter Fund. When you have 5 or more you will like it a lot. Run a unit of 3 or more and some singles.
Keep an eye on the skies.
2:33:30 The FAQ covers this. You are not allowed to "risk" hitting your own troops like this
If you are referring to this:
Q: Can a cannon be shot in such a way as to hit an enemy unit
that is engaged in combat with a friendly unit?
A: No. Page 143 of the rulebook makes it clear that, except in rare
cases, units cannot shoot enemy units that are engaged in combat.
In the case of cannon, this means the target point cannot be placed
in such a way as to risk the cannonball hitting a friendly unit, or an
enemy unit engaged in combat with a friendly unit.
this doesn't answer the question, as there's no risk of hitting the friendly unit as the cannonball will always either get stuck on one side or sail over to the other side of the line formation (moving a minimum of 2"). I guess TO was right to allow it in this case.
@@robertchmielecki2580 Ah yes that was the one I was thinking of. Hm, that's interesting!
Perhaps putting your BSB with the Rangers could help with their moral checks as well as give them a few more attacks?
Hands down best dwarf warmachine is allied steam tank. Also thx for making report.
This is a grudgeworthy comment.
Also, gotta play some big games to do that 😂
Nice show - I like the depth you go to. But I think cannons can't pursue (30 minute mark) pg 197 Weapons of War: "War machines are built to be strong and durable rather than for speed and, as such, they are slow and cumbersome to move once erected. To represent this, war machines cannot march, declare a charge or make a pursuit move. Additionally, war machines suffer a -1 modifier to the result of any Flee roll they make (to a minimum of 1).
However, a war machine can pivot freely at any time during its turn (the better to face the enemy) and may make a follow up move as normal. Should a war machine pivot, it does not count as having moved."
Thanks. That's helpful to know. It's still so strange they can flee.
I love the model you have for your Miners' champion by the way. You probably already know this, but for those who don't that model (as part of Dwarf Lords of Legend and also in the 'Five Sample Armies' mail order pamphlet that came with the original 2nd Ed Ravening Hordes) rejoices in the old-school-Warhammer pun name 'Uther Naizur'. Sadly the rules for Miners mean that he's unlikely to be able to do much to help put you out of your misery...
I was going to use him as a miners' champion myself until I realised miners weren't very good, the rest of the unit being late 80s Sappers. They actually built stuff on the battlefield during the game in 3rd Ed though it was unlikely that they would do so quickly enough for it to be all that useful. I think I'll be redeploying them as war machine crew and will have to find a different unit for Uther to champion or relegate him to Longbeard/Hammerer/Warrior status, not sure which.
I'm gonna try to work the rest of the Lords of Legend into my army. Definitely the Slayer.
@@Andy2D6 I think you could call at least two of them Slayers. There's the obvious one (Kimril Giant Slayer) who is sometimes thought of as the first Slayer figure due to his look and name though at time of release he would have been fielded as a Beserker. The other one is Throbin Deatheye who looks mad as a badger and has two hand weapons. He was a Beserker hero in that Ravening Hordes army and that's good enough for me. Annoyingly I haven't been able to get either of those two yet at a price I'm prepared to pay though I have five of the others. Out of those I might still field Lastro Lupintal in amongst my beserker/slayers and also Angus just because he's Scottish.
I used Deatheye in a mini diorama for a Kings of War event, standing on top of some barrels. I may end up breaking him off to put in my Dwarf army.
@@Andy2D6 Do it.
The anvil group are skirmishers so would conform to the charging unit.... I think....
That sounds correct.
Do a showcase yeah!!!
I just did an in-depth look at my Dwarf army in my last video. 56 minutes of red-hot bearded action.
Cool! I'll get to after this! :) @@Andy2D6
Make the Rangers Vets?
Immovable in regards the casket of souls does say it can follow up... cannot do any other move.... I suppose the magic move spell would move it.
Scouting your rangers is the last deployment, so even with all the war machines you'll rarely get the +1 to go first sadly
Are you sure it works this way?
👍👍
Screw Linehammer.
Long live Squarehammer?
As you more or less say yourself some less than brilliant rules on show assuming they were played correctly and I've no reason to think they weren't. War Machines fleeing is nonsense of the highest order especially when combined with the popping through friendly units business that was shown up in your previous report with your teleporting Hammerers. Don't blame you in the least for doing it though as it's there in the rules and your war machine crew should be able to flee and if they get the opportunity return to the machine and there is no mechanism for them to do this.
The thing with the cannon and the rangers I can't really get along with. I know it's a tournament and you're supposed to try to win etc but it looks too much like deliberately abusing a badly written rule to me. The cannon rules are silly in that the point on the ground you supposedly 'aim' at is clearly not what you aim at as if that were the case then it would be possible to undershoot as well as overshoot. Given that the cannon overshoots the nominated point every time (unless there's a misfire) it's nonsense to say the original point is being aimed at in any meaningful sense. You know yourself that the point you're really aiming at is beyond the Rangers and that you don't have line of sight to it. I suspect it comes from trying to devise a system for cannons that uses the same dice as stonethrowers and that years ago this was the best they managed to come up with without making the cannon even more accurate (I believe there's always been criticism that it's too accurate as it is). Seems pretty obvious you're really supposed to have line of sight to a point on the ground in front of the unit you're targeting with nothing in between the two. I get that if the rules allow it then it isn't cheating and there are lots of wonky rules that will be getting used by people to their advantage, but I don't think this is the way to go - if there isn't anything that stops it in the rules already I hope it gets FAQ'd out even though I want to use a cannon.
War Machines fleeing is really messy, as is the entire concept of bouncing through units to reach their final destination.
I think the idea is that the cannonball sails quite high through the air until it lands on that exact spot, at which point it bounces, rather than a flat trajectory.
They could easily clear it up by stating "The path of the cannonball, starting with the nominated point on the ground, and 20 inches beyond it in a straight line, may not pass over friendly units or enemy units engaged in combat with friendly units."
While we were pondering what options the cannon had during that turn, my opponent actually suggested that I could nominate the spot behind my own thin line of troops. It feels weird, but at the moment it seems to be allowed.
@@Andy2D6 I think the idea about the trajectory is absolutely how they envisage it, but that just makes for a reasonable argument that you shouldn't need line of sight at all i.e. you should be able to fire over your own troops however many ranks of them there are and even over enemy units into other ones behind them. However, rightly or wrongly the rules do require line of sight so given that that requirement is there it still seems off to try to fiddle a way of targeting units when you don't have it. I know you're not trying to cheat and I also realise there was very little advantage to be gained in this instance either way, I just do see it as trying to get round the rules rather than thinking about their purpose more than anything else.
For what it's worth I do think it should be possible to fire more speculatively, but I also think it should be possible to miss left or right as well as short or long so the rules for cannons are unsatisfactory (mainly for the sake of simplicity which is sort of fair enough) and those of us with cannons should probably accept the downsides as well as the upsides. I agree they can sort it out with a statement like the one you suggest, but I suspect that isn't there mainly because they haven't thought of people trying these sort of shenanigans rather than them thinking using the inbuilt automatic overshoot in this way to be part of the design.
The rules for evading charges are ridiculous in this system. Having a crew take their gun with them is just plain stupid (footmen evading much faster cavalry is also lame, but to a little lesser extent). Bumping magically through your other units is also really asinine. Fantasy gaming systems should be consistent with the rules of physics (and magic) in their own universe. These rules seem to violate that, as last I checked, there is nothing in the Warhammer universe that would dictate combatants and their weapons automatically teleporting from one side of a battlefield to the other just because you rolled well; it is hard to imagine how this can be interpreted as just another abstraction to aid in play. In Dragon Rampant, for example, you take a casualty for every inch you should have retreated, but couldn't due to another unit interfering, and that is also kind of silly for a skirmish level game but makes a lot more sense in a rank and file game like this. The way Old World does their fleeting before a charge is the worst I have seen in any fantasy minis system, it's like GW wrote it so they would have more rationale for amending their rules, as they love to do so you buy more rules that you already purchased.
Bouncing through other units and popping out the other side is definitely bad rules, in my opinion. I'm not sure what alternative I'd pitch, since units blocking each other in place would create its own set of problems. Maybe fleeing units emerge out of the passed-through unit in a random direction, to better represent the chaos of fleeing through other units.
@@Andy2D6 I do like that idea of randomising the direction, assuming it would only leave you behind the battle line.… But any crew served weapons should be left behind. Cannons should be spike-able if a unit chooses not to pursue. Also an extra morale check if a fleeing unit passes through would be a bit more realistic.