Zoologist Reviews Species Concept and Classification in Popular Media
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video, I review the species concept and classification in the world of Monster Hunter, Monsterverse, Pokemon, and Digimon. I will compare them with how it works in real life, but of course I understand that they don’t have the same scientific progress and biology as our world. No holding back for Monsterverse though.
Timestamp
0:00 Explanation
1:33 Monster Hunter
15:31 Monsterverse Godzilla
19:38 Pokemon
24:50 Digimon
28:47 Closing thought
References
Monster Hunter Fandom Wiki: monsterhunter.fandom.com/wiki/
Gojipedia: godzilla.fandom.com/wiki/
Monsterverse Wiki: legendary-monsterverse.fandom...
Bulbapedia: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/
Serebii: www.serebii.net/
Digimon Fandom Wiki: digimon.fandom.com/wiki/
Wikimon: wikimon.net/
#monsterhunter #monsterverse #pokemon #digimon
I think pokemon could replace the term "evolution" with metamorphosis, but digimon is on the clear as its "digievolutions" are more like the server's accelerated simulation of natural selection reaching the same optimal numbers.
Yeah, Digimon is a little wishy washy with the mechanics, but the general idea is that they're simulating rapid evolution based on an algorithm, and their programming limits it to some extent. Usually, a Digimon will be restricted into turning into something predictable. A dinosaur into another dinosaur, for example. At least in Tamers, the fact that they could change drastically was a discovery that concerned the human creators, so they made a program that would simplify their evolution to be more linear and sensible.
Or just growing. Because that’s what the Pokémon did. They grow up
Well in the japanese terms digimon evolution stages instead of being fresh-in training-rookie-champion-ultimate and mega their baby level 1 - baby level 2 - child - adult - perfect and ultimate so technically digimon evolution is growing Up aswell
I mean technically evolving doesn’t have to be from one species to the next. It could literally just mean to change yourself such as to evolve one’s appearance or beliefs.
So Pokemon isn’t wrong for calling it that it’s just not biological evolution in the way we know it.
@@obnoxious_efe420 not really growing up digimon idea is more like a fractal of getting more and more complex form as the material is agregated
It's nice to see someone talking about the justification for Digimon evolution, because it's actually very simple, but so many people don't seem to get it. I'm assuming because they're comparing it to Pokemon. Yes, that dinosaur can metamorphose into a lion. That wouldn't make sense normally, but Digimon AREN'T normal biological creatures. They're artificial, digital constructs. Their data (akin to DNA) can entirely reprogram itself based on outside stimulus, unlike biological DNA. That dinosaur becomes a fridge with a minigun because it's a computer program that ate the computer program for a fridge and a minigun.
Yes so many always complain why Gatomon (Tailmon) Digivolves into Angewomon in the anime. Lie how can a cat turn into an angel? But it makes perfect sence when you consider that these are not bological creatures and that the ring around Gatomon (Tailmon)'s tail is a holy ring. Meaning this cat digivolves into an angel because it carrys around holy data with it and in that case of digivolution the holy data is just dominant.
That... Still doesn't help. Okay, so they're all data, that can somehow re-program themselves, sure, got it. But then is it conscious product or an automatic one? And by what mechanism is it limited?
Because if automatic, then they shouldn't be able to not take on attributes from things they interact with, at least slightly - since they are data in an existence of data, so if they are capable of making memories, then that is also data in that data world and thus information regarding anything they interact with will be written onto their existence in a way that is accessible to be re-programmed into data they could harness for their physical forms as well. Unless Digimon aren't actually even remotely conscious and are incredibly simplistic simulations. Let alone anything else they eat being able to be re-programmed by them. So Digimon should constantly be highly amorphous being, taking on and losing and editing traits all over the place non-stop.
And if conscious, then they should be able to re-program their data to anything they have knowledge of without having to incorporate the new data to do so - unless said program is just larger than theirs, but even then, they could incorporate unrelated data and turn it into whatever data they want, so long as they have enough raw data material to work with (and since they can live in a digital world, they should literally just be able to amass ambient data from the world around them - the ground, plants, rocks, water, air, light, sound, all of that is also data in a digital world).
Either way, anything should be able to become anything with literally zero limitations while in the digital world. A Digimon should be able to Digivolve into just a car, not a car Digimon, just a car. Or a completely new Digimon, or just a nebula of data that doesn't waste any processing on making some simulated physical form - which should honestly be the most efficient form.
Another issue that comes from consciousness of Digimon is, when one Digimon incorporates another into itself for data to use to Digivolve, since their memories are also data, they should have access to all knowledge that the absorbed one had. So, if conscious, a Digimon should be able to essentially mind-read any others that it assimilates, and even write false memories onto their data and expunge the memory of being incoporated and read and written on. And if automatic, then how does one not end up with random bits of another active and distinct consciousness vying for control or freedom, or at least gumming up the works?
And, in the little short-hand example version, why would a dinosaur data that eats the data for a refrigerator and a mini-gun become a refrigerator with a mini-gun and not a dinosaur with with a refrigerator and a mini-gun, or a dinosaur with a few attributes of a refrigerator and a mini-gun. Hell, why a fridge with a mini-gun and not a mini-gun with a fridge? Or a mini-fridge with a gun? Or a random pile of machine components and coolant and gun-powder? Or a random pile of data?
Biologically based creature properties get away with not having to make a huge rule-set because biology is already inherently incredibly limited, so you just have to show what is possible. Data based - in a data world, at least - however, has nearly limitless possibilities, so you need an in-depth list of which things are not possible and why, because that one would logically be the shorter list, as opposed to the biological one being opposite.
Also, why would data end up being a dinosaur anyway? That's another core issue with Digimon. Why are there event Digimon? It's data, so it has a purpose and function, so who made it all and how and for what? Biological life is just an accident of chemistry that is good at doing chemistry so it keeps doing chemistry and thus keeps existing, when it ceases to be good enough at chemistry, it will cease to exist. The "abiogenesis" problem of data life becomes a huge hole that cannot be rationally filled in a digital world.
It would have been much better if Digimon just said that Digimon was a game or website or program or whatever made by people that then got to run on servers and a learning algorithm long enough that people eventually argued that many of the creatures qualified as at least feeling creatures, if not fully sapient, and thus they have their own rights and culture and can meaningfully interact with humans. This would also explain all the Digimon wearing jeans and holding guns and being based on our mythologies and our natural world. And, more importantly, it would explain all the limitations - they were just put there artificially by people for the sake of the user experience. Solve so many problems. Though, you would need to remove the being able to cross between the digital and physical world too, but that is a huge mess for Digimon already, so it would be best to remove it anyway.
I loved Digimon as a kid, and still find how unabashedly childish and stupid many of the designs are to be genuinely charming and funny, but any attempt at "lore" or anything like that has always been incredibly convoluted, and any attempt to explain away reasons to cover up holes in even internal or base logic has only served to rip open new or more or bigger holes. The silly and arbitrary nature of all the mechanisms of that universe only make sense if done by some people making up a bunch of junk.
@@julielandherr4686 i think you judt dont get the fundamental part about the digimon lore.
Actually yes the digimon world/worlds are based on servers which exist Independently from each other and have their own administrative system and even their own Firewall. For example one of those servers is balanced by the royal Knight Digimon like for example alphamon, omegamon and gallantmon just to name a view.
While another known server is balanced by the olympus 12 digimon like apollomon, minervamon and dianamon. There is even a case where the administrarive system of a known server wiped the server of all digimon because of Overpopulation with a virus called programm x. The survivors of this virus were able to produce antibodys to said virus which also became a crutual part of their data and these digimon were able to include it to their digicores which resulted in x antibody variations of certain digimon.
It is not a concious process thus digimon are not able to include all data into their digicores makeing them essentially gods. They can gather data to basically boost their stats but not to evolve or morph themselves into whatever thy want.
For a digimon to change this drastically there need to be either drastical enviormental influences, major external influences or dormant already existing data in the data of said digimon.
Another popular example is gabumon it is basically also a dinosaur like Digimon (tje yellow part of it) but it actually wears the skin/fur of a garurumon (the White blueish part of it). This happens due to gabumons rather timid nature they try to hide/protect themselfs with said garurumon pelt. But in digivolution this pelt can become a dominant part of their data which results with it digivolving into garurumon. But it could for example also digivolve to dorugamon or veedramon.
And no it does not overtake the conciousness of said garurumon. Its pelt is not living by itself or posess the conciousness of said garurumon the same way a furret pelt would not in the real world.
Edit: no breathing the wrong air partical or eating something does not count as a major external influence. It is more like Adaptation in a sense of Natural Evolution.
@@julielandherr4686 A lot of this questions are answered in the lore of later installments
It seems you only know the franchise from the early animes like adventures,02 and tamers
I will try to answer as many questions that you have wrote
Just for clarification, digimon lore is not consistent, and this is on purpose since a lot of the media takes place in different universes with different rules and logics for how digimon should work and act
1)Yes digimon are highly amorphous, they gain and lose traits all the time, and can get data from everything and anything they do, this has been a staple of the franchise since the beginning of the series, all the digimon world games that focus on the raising digimon aspect have this as a core feature, a automatic process that always happens, for example a baby digimon will always evolve into a kunemon if you make it sleep in a certain region of the forest in world 1
2)Yes, this process can also be conscious, digimon have emotions and thoughts, even a soul, so they can selectively know what to harvest and what not to evolve into what they want, the digimon world games that are rpg (the ones where you can evolve and devolve) focus on, for example, in the rearise gacha game, an angewomon evolves into lovelyangemon, because it uses data from japanese idols and divas because her tamer loved that type of person
3)Yes! Digimon can become anything and everything without limitations, all those 3 things you said have happened in the franchise, an alphamon transform most of his body into a real car, the new evolution thing happens all the time in the franchise (is like the most hype thing ever not going to lie) and digimon like zeedmilleniumon or death-X-mon are just a bunch of data and code that destroys things without using a physical body
4)There have been cases of digimon fighting for control because the process of digimon fusion/jogress usually makes 2 digimon with 2 consciousness become 1, for example in tamers a character uses a cyberdramon, a digimon fuse from the result of a dracomon and a zeedmilleniumon, they are both fighting for control most of the series and that usually result in aggressive outburst and killing sprees, and yes they can read each other minds
5)Mostly depends on what more data it has consumed, if he consumed more fridge data than dinosaur then he will turn into a fridge, if not then viceversa, or evolve into a middle point of both, take the digimon dorumon for example if he feeds on mostly natural data he can turn into a dorugamon, if he consumes more X digimon data he turns into a raptordramon and if he consumes mostly corrupted data he turns into a dexdorugamon
6)The origin of digimon is different in most timelines, the general lore is that the creator is this super computer/ai named yggdrasill that monitors them like an experiment/simulation to know how life works, there are other cases where they come from another dimention and have no clear origin, the dimension just works like that, in 1 and 0, my favorite origin is the original one, where hackers drop their programs into the internet and abandoned them and thanks to a bunch of lucky coincidences they managed to create artificial life
7)Yea digimon are a game/website in some lores, vtamer lore is that they are just the world where the vpets(toys) exist, in tamers they are canonically just a mmo that went rouge, in survive they are just yokai (japanese spirits and demons) taking form of a popular franchise of toys and game because they were discarded, any idea with digimon you have for their origin/how they work has already been explored believe me
And lastly, for that last sentence
Just enjoy childish things dude, is a franchise that fundamentally is about monsters made to be raised, it doesn't need all the convoluted plot and explanation, is nice to have but that doesn't make a franchise better, and all 90% of lore in any franchise is made on the spot, just look at dark souls,halo,sonic, hell even pokemon just writes lore as it went along, it took them to Arceus to finally retcon the existence of Raichu killing an elephant
@@BlackLion45 it's mostly that digimon lore can go all over the place depending on the game,anime or media that you consume on the franchise
The lore of for example adventure can't exist in the same universe as tamers without the canon explanation of milleniumon
The lore of ghost game can't exist at the same time that data squad
Data squad can't exist in the same timeline as digimon masters online
Masters online can't exist in the same lore as digimon linkz and so on
I feel like "Elder Dragon" started out in-universe as a classification for 6-limbed reptilian monsters, but over time became more associated with monsters who possess borderline supernatural abilities.
Considering how the Western Dragon body plan is less biologically realistic than the Wyverns that are more common in Monster Hunter, it makes sense that they would tend to possess additional "unnatural" qualities.
Among hunters Elder Dragon has basically become shorthand for "unusual and extremely dangerous".
I'm inclined to agree but one really irritating and weird issue with that is that Gore Magala's classification is originally considered unknown even though it clearly has six limbs and scales, and its only non-ED trait is that it can be trapped or captured (and it's hard to imagine that those are actually universal ED traits in-lore, and certainly it may be the case that all young EDs can be trapped, not just Gore). This implies that having six limbs is NOT a standard for classification of elder dragons.
Conversely, I've seen the theory that Kirin has small vestigial wings under its mane or lost its wings similar to snakes, and that EDs in general have six-limbed body plans.
EDs didn't started out as 6-limbed dragons. Gen 1 only had Kirin, Lao Shan Lung and Fatalis, Gen 2 introduced the elder trio, and Yama Tsukami. They were always meant to be a wastebasket taxon from the beginning.
@@vitriolicAmaranth
Even after monster hunter 4 Gore still classified as "????" Kind don't make sense. You already know Sagaru is Elder Dragon come from Gore.
Why not make it under develop elder dragon?
And what make "Elder Dragon" as a type is kind out of place a Tunder horse, Dragon, Giant montain blob etc. The only similarity just they can't get trap, flash, or capture.
Elder Dragon was always the Category for "Yeah, we don't know either, but it's incredibly powerful"
@@just_a_guy9688
I meant more from an in-universe/lore perspective.
that was actually a good summery of digimon they don't make sense and they won't ever make sense cause they're not "flesh and blood" animals they're computer data
it makes sense when you realize that is data about a specific idea or concept and the evolution are interpretations of those concepts
The pokemon one does have an answer actually, but not many people know about it because it was in Japanese only material from decades ago. Around the time of Gen2 they had research notes from Oak where he talked about how his classification system was flawed, he was originally classifying different "species" only based on appearance and didn't know how to tell their gender, this is why the Nidorans are separated. He also muses that Taurus and Milktank are also the same species but with sexual dimorphism. Within this Oak then says that he can't fix his misclassifications now (very unscientific of him) because it would screw up the dex numbers. So it's very likely that full lines are intended to be different growth stages of a single species but the games just categorize them separately like Monster Hunter does.
Ah i see
Thanks for the info
The pokemon classification science is somehow very young in-universe.
It's sort of like how American english works.
Absolutely wild. It’d be nice to see a spec - evo project about the different Pokémon types and their evolutionary origins
@@Miraihi Pokemon Arceus is closely based on 1800s Hokkaido, so they have roughly 200 years of development until now if we assume that Hisui was one of the first to develop the pokeballs and release it towards the masses which would open the floodgates of possible innovation, we do know that tribes and acient people also used pokemon but they're most likely small close-knit groups that wouldn't reveal it towards outsiders.... or dead.
acceptance towards pokemon is also a factor since some Pokemon could or would cause natural disaster level destruction.
Minor correction on edible vs non-edible monsters:
You *can* eat some Large monsters, but you have to give their parts (like tails) to the Canteen or your Handler, who will prep the meat and give you Well-Done Steaks.
My guess is unlike herbivore meat that can easily be processed via carving, Large Monster meat needs more processing.
Of course it takes more processing - you can’t eat a Rathian tail raw …and live.
@@17Haru17 XD exactly
Plus it would take a lot of time to butcher Large monster meat. Gotta get through the scales and hide that a hunter's weapons can only just get through.
@@17Haru17not true, I eat multiple every time I hunt a rathian.
It's probably the same with certain types of foods that require professional certification before being allowed to cook, like that one poisonous fish (puffer fish?) in Japan that can't be served by just any cook or chef.
The problem with the Monsterverse is that while it has many writers that are talented , they are also somehow lazy on detail and worldbuilding,also has many interventions from the studio so it can't even star to be consistent .
I reaaaaaly likedd this video.
Monster hunter is consistent with his clasification as you said, as a hunter, you just need to know certain things. Bird wyvern? okey, it can be trapped, they move fast, and use generally the same type of attacks. By using this classification, you can overall guess how the mosnter attack, which is really important, for example brute wyverns, ive realise usually have specialized tools, uragaan chin, deviljho mouth, brachydios arms, duramboros tail club... based on this you know, at least one body part of them is overused in their attacks. Deviants are basically overly stressed specimens that adapt rapidly due to something, in some cases failed hunts from humans, and are in lore extremely rare to encounter, apexes (MHRise) are affected by the stress of the wind serpent ibushi that moves them out of place, hardcore variants are very similar to deviants but instead they are basically older specimenss that are way better with their abilities
Monsterverse is weird, its like, because the titans dont fit into the animal kingdom easily, they cant clasify them fairly, thus they make it simple and use code names.
Pokemon its always about the evolution line, but it is weird how not even their categories fit, some pokemon have the same category been different species, and many change their category when evolve.
Digimon is hell, which i love about it. Many knoledge of their lore, helps to understand it. Digimon have always existed in theory, it was the computer ygdrassil that tapped into the dimension via internet... which in the digimon franchise, the internet is basically an interdimensional place, we didnt created, we just found it.
In the digital world, time is accelerated, an ygdrassil used this to experiment wwith evolution, in a few years, the digimon world develops for millions of years... this is why its so cluncky, the information humans send using the internet can reach the diggital world, and thats why human have shapped their live and evolution, even life styles.
In short, ddigimon works as a simulation, in which yggdrassil analyses how evolution develops, this is why when a digimon dies, it can de-evolve, and it becomes another oportunity for different outcomes. Digimon physical appereance isnt even real, its just a videogame skin, their true self is their digicore, its their genes and even memories. Lastly, many digital worlds exist at the same time and all of them, are kinda connected, digimon can evolve into new forms, modes, etc. and when this happens, ygdrassil makes sso every digimon can achieve that form if they are related iin some way, this is way they can evolve into such different things.
For example, the first metalgreymon that evolved into wargreymon, unlocked that evolution in every other universe or "server". This is the reason why, for example, many digimon can evolve into royal knights while not being them, they wont have the same power, but they can reach this evolution.
I've really just learnt Digimon lore via a TH-cam comment, thank you kind sir
You said MonsterVerse is weird bruh
@@user-wk5js2wr4fJa
Yesss Monster Hunter supremacy
22:38, there was animals in the pokemon world but it was retconned, it was mostly a gen 1-2 thing where they treated pokemon like newly discovered species rather than the average fauna of the pokemon world, it basically stopped being cannon since takeshi shudo (main pokemon anime writer until gen 2) left the anime
Interesting, i thought the real animals were just supposed to be a place holder for future pokemon because there wasn't that many back then like there are now.
Really cool to see someone try to take a more naturalistic viewpoint of Digimon considering how unnatural they are. If there ever is a follow up to this video I'd really hope to see you come back to Digimon to discuss some of the other aspects that incorporate themselves into the canon over time, such as the various Digimon subspecies, or even the story of Program X and how it mirrors an extinction event/genetic bottleneck.
Oh yea that is a good idea.
X program and x antibody would make a really good topic.
I'll keep that in mind.
Digimon data evolution concept is unique in terms how they transform by absorbing data, not being restricted even by an abstract concepts. Essentially the digital world in Digimon franchise is a so-called "Noosphere" - the space where everything ever concieved exists.
Also on Gore Magala, in some recent book it is said that gore magala is born from the corpses of monsters that died infected with the frenzied virus, wich is probably why traps work on him
A resposta para Gore Magala cair em armadilhas e ainda ser um dragão ancião é que além de ser um "bebê" ele não seus olhos totalmente desenvolvidos por isso pode cair em armadilhas. Sobre o Xeno J'iiva não cair em armadilhas e também ser um "bebê" é o seu tamanho gigante.
Your tangent on Pokemon egg groups reminded me of the fact the Pokemon Feraligatr and Krookodile can't breed, despite being based on related animals they are not in the same egg group.
Could've sworn Feraligatr was in the Field egg group (like the majority of starters) but after a quick search its just in the Monster and Water 1 groups... Which means it can breed with Bergmite, Mareep, Chikorita, Clamperl, Pyukumuku, Corsola, Seel, and Bibarel but can't mate with another crocodilian
Meanwhile i thought both krook line and fuecoco line are at least also in the monster group.
The more i look at it, the more i realize egg groups are quite jank.
And it reminded me of a certain copy pasta...
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Nidoking and Nidoqueen being unable to breed. Unless, the Nidoqueen is young enough.
@@DissedRedEngie That one just feels like a glitch that they decided to stick to for two decades instead of fixing it, lol
In regards to pokemon, it seems like the "evolution" they undergo is actually a metamorphosis and rapid adaptation. There are evolved forms that simply went extinct due to the conditions they were suited for not being present anymore like some of the Hisuian forms, modern Stantler cannot evolve into Wyrdeer even if they meet the evolution pre-requisites since they lost that ability. It's worth noting that it's also implied in many cases that unevolved forms of certain pokemon can live out their entire lives in that form if they never have the need to evolve - they're kind of like axolotls in that they can be neotenous their entire lives.
There is also "normal" evolution in pokemon, with pokemon changing their type and evolutionary pathways depending on the region they live in, and there being prehistoric pokemon that are ancestors to modern forms.
If I recall correctly, the flavor text for kirin explains that while at first glance they look like herbivores, their bodies being covered in scales and their having feet with claws is what makes them an elder dragon.
Canonically you only do each hunt once, so there's indeed a single one of every deviant, even across their entire quest lines
Wait, really? Is this confirmed anywhere? That would make a lot of sense then.
Does this only applies to deviant or does it applies to rise / sunbreak apexes too?
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Applies to everything, i just don't know where it's confirmed. But the lore of Deviants/Two Named Monsters states that they are unique among their species. Also it wouldn't make sense to hunt multiple Dire Miralises, Zorah Magdaroses, Xeno'Jiivas and Safi'Jiivas, etc. Safi is also not the same individual as the Xeno we defeat in base game World.
Monster Hunter Frontier even has a category of monsters called "extreme individuals", which are, as the title implies, individuals, but you still can hunt them an unlimited amount of times each
Why wouldn't it make sense to hunt multiple of those monsters you specified? Aren't there skulls of zorah magdaros in the map? (forgot where it is, guiding land i think?)
And for me personally, the safi we hunted being a different individual just implies that there are indeed multiple of those, so why wouldn't it make sense?
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Because each encounter with those specific species of monsters happens under extremely specific circumstances that simply would't happen multiple times consecutively. World's Xeno'Jiiva is born in the Everstream as soon as we step into his nest. You take the quest again, go to the same location, find the same previously unknown species in the exact same stage of development, hunt it again, repeat. When they wanted to make an actual second Jiiva in a more advanced growth stage (Safi), they set up a whole different arena for it, and made a different egg leftover that you can see from the accessible zone, to communicate that it's indeed a different individual born right there, far away from where the first Xeno was brought forth. Repelling Zorah Magdaros demanded a huge taskforce, and the entire game up to that point revolved around setting up that one time big event. The Commander says that's the only chance they have of repelling Zorah Magdaros, and that if they fail it will all be lost. You succeed. Then you go on the hunt again, and boom, another Zorah Magdaros spawns at the exact same place under the exact same circumstances and with the same NPC dialogues emphasizing that such an event is unique, unprecedented, an one time thing. The Zorah skull in the Frost Islands has a different size and anatomy compared to that of the one we fight in World, so it's probably a weaker relative. Also, the battle against it is fully documented in the secret texts scattered across the map.
@@athos9293 Ah ok, i get your logic. Thanks for taking the time to explain
Digimon "family" is also called "field" and, based on the nature report style descriptions for the Pendulum Z, is supposed to refer to their habitat; so the same Digimon can be in more than one because they live in more than one place.
I think in the series "monarch legacy of monsters" they explain that "titanus" refers to a creature that has the ability to cause massive environmental disruptions while smaller kaiju are just labelled as "superspecies" I think
Also it was stated years ago that "Titanus" is a title not part of the scientific name, like the word King or Quuen. We know Kong's are Apus Kong.
I think you missed something in MH world, the head ecologist outright calls "elder dragon" a pile that creatures can get tossed on when they don't fit elsewhere.
Would be cool a video classifying the monsters of the Monsterverse
To be honest, i like the idea of doing so if we got more detail.
Unfortunately, i'm so catered to academic practice that my brain wouldn't let me do so without enough evidence.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Well, there's a few details You forgot to mention when talking about the monsterverse.
- Superspecies are lifeforms that are endemic and adapted to hollow earth ecosystems and require radiation to subsist. Titans are Superspecies that can cause environmental disruptions because of their natures. It doesn't have to do with size.
- The Titans and superespecies DO have scientific names and belong to discovered taxonomic groups, and I don't only mean in Skull Island. For example: Godzilla is an Archosaur, and it's scientific name is Deinocanthus serizawii, And Ghidorah's scientific name is Mandandare Aquenomba.
- Since Even by kotm (when the dumb "titanus" classification was invented) Monarch put a proper scientific name to Ghidorah, it's heavily implied that the "Titanus (codename)" only refers to the individual rather than the species (maybe because they're the last of their kind) and we just don't know the other titans scientific name. That or the actual scientific names got retconned with the Titanus thingy.
- The Titans also have an artificial classification based on behaviour, Those who are passive and mean no intentional harm are labeled as "protectors", and the territorial ones are "destroyers"
There's still a Lot of gaps to fill, but hopefully this is enough info for you to try and do an speculative video. Good video!
first vid I've seen on your channel! stuff like the ecosystem of monster hunter worlds intrigues me so much! will be sharing this with friends!
Some monsters have sub-classifications. For instance, nargacuga, tigrex, and barioth are all flying wvyerns, but are in a sub-grouping called pseudo wyverns due to thier wings being used for ground locomotion where as true flying wyverns like rathalos, astalos, and paolumu use thier wings solely for flying.
Pseudo flying wyvern is a fanon term. Please be mindful that Monster Hunter community is choke full of outright lies such as "Fatalis regenerating from the sword." or "Deviljho will eat its own tail."
@@EarthWingedDragonno. Let the cooler term triumph
@@EarthWingedDragon tbh the Jho tail thing started by Capcom themselves when they advertised Jho back in gen 3, then it snowballed from there. Also despite the gameplay not showing it, it's not something out of the realm of possibility in-universe.
@@raydhen8840 Deviljho tail thing is a mass hallucination. I am sure the rumour exists before that video. The fact that small monster isn't synched to all player in old gen might be the true reason why this misinformation started.
Despite using the term, Pokémon evolution is more like life stages or metamorphosis than evolution as it's understood scientifically in the real world.
Great video! As someone who share with you the interest in all 4 of those franchises and in zoology I really appreciated it.
Elder Dragons can probably be given natural classifications, but the term Elder Dragon, while a wastebin taxon, actually has specific criteria in order to be given which are more informative to the hunters and researchers, and that's likely why Gore Magala hasn't been given it yet. If i'm not mistaken, they need to have a substantial impact on the local ecosystem (no matter where they go). Like a permanently invasive species. Gore Magala isn't quite the same because while it does carry the Frenzy virus, it isn't the one technically responsible for the disruption of the ecosystem. So it's likely only ??? because of a technicality. But it's also too disruptive to be given any other classification, as it doesn't fit naturally into any ecosystem. Otherwise it would likely end up, in my opinion, as a fanged wyvern. This is all being pulled from memory and conjecture so I could be wrong.
outro critério para a classificação "dragão ancião" é que os dragões anciões compartilham de um sangue, tem até o item desse sangue nos jogos "sangue de dragão ancião" por isso que um Akantor mesmo causando um desequilíbrio ecológico não é um dragão ancião, por esse e outros motivos claro.
10:30 I mean... You COULD milk a bull... It's just a different milk and process!
As a fellow zoologist, I loved this. Congrats, mate! you made a fantastic video!
Even though I got to play all of those franchises when I was younger, I never saw them this way, it was so fun and fascinating.
fellow digimon lovers, cant do much beside giving you a subs and like, wishing you the best for this channel growth
"The Goddamn lightning horse"
I felt that
I'm a biology nerd and I love Monster Hunter for that reason. I only got into it a few years ago because I'm bad at video games and I was so intimidated, but I wish I'd known how worth it it would be to delve into. Also I think the Elder Dragon classification is very useful even if artificial. It signifies just how powerful and dangerous a species is, even if a lot of them aren't actually dragons. Perhaps a natural classification of just "Dragon" would apply to the Elder Dragons which are dragons, like Fatalis, Kushala Daora, Shagaru Magala, and Malzeno. Perhaps the wider family would include the likes of Amatsu, Narwa/Ibushi, and Gaismagorm.
In the main dragon family itself, Fatalis (and its variants), Dire Miralis, Alatreon, and Disufiroa could be their own subgroup. Though it's possible that Alatreon and Disufiroa are completely unrelated to Fatalis and Dire Miralis.
Dire Miralis actually sounds like a binomial name lmao. Actually this makes me want to come up with binomial names for monsters... (and this led to a few hours of research and I had this whole giant thing typed up and then I realized I was being infodumpy, sorry about that)
Glad that you enjoy the franchise. I'm sure some people enjoy reading others' excitement about the franchise they also love, so no need to apologize really. As long as it's harmless, enjoy doing what you like to do and have fun
I think Pokémon has some kind of optional metamorphosis. Because stage 1 Pokémon could grow to be old and reproduce as still stage 1 Pokémon, they don’t need to evolve for that (at least not some of them? Maybe those with like baby stages do need to evolve to reproduce it’d be weird if they didnt)
This was awesome. I loved your breakdown of Monster Hunter. I’ve always loved their detailed taxonomy.
Quite good to watch! Keep making videos, i really like them
Why am I only now seeing this channel? This is some quality biology content right here
I can tell you really love all the franchises in this video, i think it's a very good place for discussion.
The thing about Digimon moving from one classification to another is because they are very volatile. The way they "feed on their prey" is not by eating in the regular sense, but by literally absorbing the prey data into their own. So if a bird absorb too much fish data, it will evolve into an aquatic species. Think of it as completely rewriting their DNA on the fly.
28:30 "ancient aquatic beast man type"
Damn, and I thought e621 tags were hyper specific XD
MLP futa
@@Oinker-Sploinker That's not a single tag though. And not really specific either.
That's just Digi-jank. There's been so many different localizations by so many different people with so many different visions and ideas that the franchise can come off as disoriented and hyper-specific at the same time. The stage called "Super-Ultimate" was changed to "Ultra" a few years back, and the Digimon named "Lilithmon" bounces back and forth between being called Lilithmon and Laylamon, the same way Omni Shoutmon is called Omega Shoutmon from time to time.
@@mariofan1ish I see. Still funny though.
To be fair to digimon, they are digital lifeforms. (in some of the games) you choose their next form, like how you choose, say, to run youtube to watch a video instead of tik tok or twitch.
Thank you for actually understanding Digimon's evolution system. Subbed.
The Monsterverse would've been a *true* marvel if it stuck to the grounded/naturalistic feel, remember when Goji reacted to the military shooting at him, especially at his vulnerable gills, and the building that fell on him? (not to mention that the male MUTO got killed via tail-slammed and impaled on rebar) Good times...
The early movie was a true marvel, meanwhile the recent one truly feels like a marvel movie
(Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation to make that foolish pun)
He reacts to the military in every movie my guy. Did you not see how he freaked out on the drones they were bombing him with in the new movie? He was so pissed off he exploded
@@GoGoBean34 Eh still tho, in the new movie and the previous one he bloody *sprinted* jumped even, and that wasn't when he was in the Hollow Earth, which should've been the only scene to pull off such moves cuz of the whole differing gravity.
@@jennyfeare1702 why though? It's awesome when he leaps into action, sure it's a little silly but that's part of the fun of the movies. If you want something more grounded and slower paced we still have minus one and shin movies to fall back on
@@GoGoBean34 B R U H.... did... did you *not* read the op comment, of the feel the 2014 film had?
Honestly a big part of what has always kept me engaged with Monster Hunter is the attention to detail. Particularly as the series has progressed, and they've put more effort into each individual model and environment, the various monsters, endemic life, and the world in general tends to feel more "alive" than the vast majority of games and series. Sure, it's a fantastical world that has things that couldn't feasibly exist in our world, but you can see how things fit together within its own ecosystem.
If you see a random monster or creature in a MH game, you can usually tell that either it's meant to be there or it's an invasive species entering the area in the search for prey. Meanwhile half the time in games set in real world based locations, like Far Cry, the arbitrary placements of animals or the lack of animals often makes it feel more artificial even if it arguably should make sense. They're often simply standing around waiting to be found, with no presence within the environment aside from things like fish being in the water or birds flying in the sky.
I saw this and i was exited since i love ecology and stuff along thst line and then i clicked on your video and i loved it and whats even better you havw a great voice thsr is nice to listen to and you also havw a wonderful accsent!!
On Monsterverse classifications: it would have been better to swap the "genus" and "species" names. So "Gojira Titanus". Thus establishing each monster as belonging to a different genus. Of course, it still says nothing of the rest of the species/genus.
Personally, I would label them Gojira gojira titanus, or G. gojira titanus. Leaving open the idea and possibility that there are non-titanic gojira out there.
Yep that definitely works
I assume they gave that up because realistically this naming convention denotes a specific shared class and maybe niche of organism not a taxonomical family.
Godzilla is a reptile and heavily hinted to be an archosaur, Kong is a mammal and a primate, Scylla is likely a crustacean or cephalopod, and Mothra is an insect or at least a type of arthropod.
But they are all a sort of super megafauna that evolved to feed on radiation convergently.
"Fellow hunter with great content"
Aight i subbed, carry on.
22:44 no, they aren't. The anime retconned them after the first writer step out.
The reason why they're named after animals is to be understood by us.
Great video! I just wanna give a lil justification to Kirin being classified as an Elder Dragon. It's more of a cultural/myth thing in East Asian countries. Essentially, a Kirin/Qilin is an eastern dragon with the body of a horse (although there are some that have deer-like or similar bodies). This is why you can see some depictions of Kirin have scales on them; they're an eastern dragon. Since Capcom is a japanese company, it kinda makes sense that they'd put Kirin as an Elder Dragon
Fun fact!: There's a japanese brand of beer called "Kirin" and you can see a more faithful depiction of a Kirin as their logo
one great way to see digimon evolution is like a linguistic evolution every digimon is basically digital representation of a concept the more information are aggregated to that concept end up changing its meaning and evolve into a new concept
Also, no mention to Regional Forms, a better example of REAL evolution in Pokémon.
According to their habitat some species had to change to adapt. They aren't considered different species, unless they branch into a new species.
Like Johtovian Sneasel evolve into Weavile, so being their older version. And Hisuian Sneasel evolve into Sneasler.
Essentially they're all the same species just change their features to adapt to their environment.
Like Sneaslers did hunt alone but weren't successful, other Sneasel prefered to evolve into Weavile who did hunt in packs, increasing their success rates.
Didn't talk about that because this video is about species concept and classification.
It'll be way out of topic then if i do.
wow a video about biology, monster hunter AND digimon! i feel so weirdly validated
The creatures in the monsterverse actually do have scientific names, with literally every creature native to skull island having a scientific name, some creatures in the Hollow Earth having names, as well as, very surprisingly Monster Zero, aka King Ghidorah, having a scientific name: Mandandare Aqenomba, although you could say that is due to him being extra terrestrial in origin.
For the Pokemon stuff as someone else said, think of it more as metamorphosis than evolution as even some of the evolution requirements are not really evolving but just enhancing their previous body.
Think of pokemon like Onix or Scizor, what's really happening is they are just putting on the item Metal Coat like a coat, it's just covering their body and in the process they chance to fit that coat. Onix gets... bigger? and Scyther's blades turn into pincers. A lot of item trade evolutions are like this, Electabuzz plugs itself in to get more electricity so it gets bigger, same with Magmar with fire or Rhydon putting the Protector on it's body to become Rhyperior.
The only Pokemon that specifically talks about it's genetic makeup when evolving, as far as I know, is Eevee and how different elements react with it's cells to force it to evolve into something else entirely, ranging from basic elements, too much sunlight/moonlight and... love from it's trainer? Sylveon is the only weird one really lol
Egg groups are a mess mainly due to breeding being a mechanic from gen 2 and Gamefreak never changing egg groups of older pokemon while also adding new ones over time, so some pokemon that are should clearly be related like Feraligatr and Krookidile cannot breed due to this while Feraligatr and breed with Turtonator (a fire turtle dragon). Silly stuff.
Imo the explanation for fighting deviants multiple times is simply that only the first fight is canon.
Much in the same way that only the first time you fight Fatalis in World is. You’re not fighting multiple Fatalis’.
Just adding a comment on the MH series: It tends to be relatively consistent partially because the classification is tied to the skeleton the developers use to animate the monster. Having common skeletons help creating new monsters faster as they can reuse the skeleton. As a consequence, monsters from a same group (except elder dragons) will share similar biological structure. Here is the explanation for Ukanlos and Akantor: They aren't flying and aren't looking like other flying wyverns at first, but both of them are using the flying wyvern skeleton as base.
Of course, there are exceptions. Kulve Taroth for example is an elder dragon, but uses the same skeleton as Great Jagras, which is a fanged wyvern.
In my own Gojiverse project I named Godzilla Xinophotitanus imperator
Translation?
Google it? Doing your OWN research time to time is a GOOD thing, friend. @koopapoopypanya9485
@@koopapoopypanya9485
Xino: Blue
Pho: Light
Titanus: Of great size, to call giant or large.
Imperator: Emperor
So giant emperor of blue light, or giant blue light emperor, something along those lines.
@@gojitsar7505
“Emperor Titan of Blue Light”
Sick!
Someone cooked here
Dope and informative video new sub
Personally, I’ve got beef with Pokémon egg groups. This led me to reclassify half of all the Pokémon into renamed and subdivided egg groups; the highlights are rodents going into the “Mouse” group, ungulates going into the “Hoofed” group, and ghosts and invertebrates being separated from Amorphous into “Spectre.” No longer shall Gardevoir breed with Gastrodon, nor Wailord with Skitty. It was a really fun exercise, if you’re reading this and are interested, I can post the Google doc link.
Elder Dragons are usually powerful, almost supernatural monsters that are separate from the tree of life and are seen more as natural phenomenons. They don’t seem to possess any known evolutionary ancestors or descendants, but some are related. This helps add a bit of mystery to their origins as Elder Dragons have been around for thousands of years, but have remained unchanged.
This was a really cool video
I don't blame you for missing it, as it has a much smaller following, but a franchise that should definitely been have included in this video: Pikmin! It has an extensive catalog of creatures and families, and all creatures have scientific names, and most the protagonists and some side characters also give their own descriptions and thoughts on it. Each character's descriptions has a unique charm to its writing, too.
For example, my favorite creature and boss: Groovy long legs! It's somewhat similar to a spider, but its body is a single large black sphere with 20 glowing, light blue spots, evenly spread across its body. Resembling one of those discotheque lighting things. It has 4 legs, with 3 segments. They all connect to the very top of its body. Its feet are large, rounded triangles, and most of its legs and some of its feet are coated with plastic, and it has plastic tubes akin to wires of varying lengths hanging from its limbs. You find it deep into a dark cave, where you see it hanging up from a web stretching far into the void above. It is initially passive, but if you attack it, after one second, the intro for the boss song plays, it drops down and slams its body into the floor, breakdancing for a brief moment, before getting back up on its 4 feet. Its body creates blue rays of light for a moment. Then groovy long legs causes the boss music to fade away before the intro finishes, and overtakes it with its own electronic music. Its body bobs up and down with the song, and it also walks to the beat of its own song. Its footsteps act as the kicks of the song. Every single action it does is represented by a different part of the music.
When it dies, the music gets erratic and unorganized, with ascending notes, it convulses while rapidly flashing colors, before slamming into the ground with the sound of a speaker and microphone dropping. Its body lights turn a bright getting increasingly brighter with rays of light visibly coming out of it. It plays an MLG aihorn sound effects just before its body explodes into confetti, with the sound of a bowling strike, and a low pitched note that decays slowly after it dies. Its legs disintegrate after the main body explodes.
This video was fantastic loved every parto but i loved a lot the monster hunter segment, it would be fun a future video qhere you go more in depts in the monster hunter zoology, since is so cool, like even the mizutsune we know only the male variant since the female are not aggressive so as hunter we do not kill Female mizutsune
for Pok'e Mon, a lot of them have different species classifications despite being in the same evolutionary line. and some even have overlapping species classifications even when they aren't closely related.
Fore Example, Blastoise is a Shellfish Pok'e mon despite being a turtle, which Kabuto and Kabutops share with it, despite being trilobites.
Even more weird, is that pok'e mon that are clearly subspecies of each other like the regional forms will often have different species names, like Ponyta being the Fire Horse and Galarian Ponyta being the Unique Horn.
And Finally, there are nolonger real world animals in pok'e mon. Those have been retconned out, and even then, it was only ever shown in the first season of the anime.
a little detaill about the deviants of mh its that in the "lore" of the games, each quest can be completed only 1 time, you can go and kill the monster 1000 times but in your own lore the monster was killed only 1 time, because of this we can say that the deviants are less common that you said in the video
i love hwo the thumbnail says godzilla's design is wasted potential, but the design below him that's basically just yellower is "unique"
The Species Concept of Digimon makes a lot of sence due to the fact, that they're data. And if the data changes, than it depends on how the data changes what the result would be like.
It is like coding. If you code a huge amount of lines for a program, where all parts (more or less) depending on other parts of the program, you may can change a simple math sign or even number on the one part to get a very different program. And so, you can also revert your changes to get you previous data back
I believe it is mentioned that godzilla's scientific name is Deinocanthus Serizawii
Can’t remember where i read it, but Elder Dragons get classified as they are less due to their physical appearance and more that they are ridiculously powerful or they force an environment to change just by their presence rather than them having to specifically adapt to specific environment. A good example of this itself would be kushala with the extreme winds and overcast whenever they are around, or Lunastra causing wild fires just by her travelling as shown in the legends of the guild movie.
"You can't milk a bull"
Well... You techhhhhnically can.....?
I have to admit, the Monsterverse has a lot of wasted potential in terms of fictional taxonomy. For example, some titans, like Mothra and Rodan, are one-of-a-kind with no evidence of others like them, whilst others like Kong are individuals of a specific species. Or, why is Kong named Titanus Kong, anyway? Where do we draw the line between “titan” and “super-species?” Is Titanus supposed to be a genus? I highly doubt it. I do hope they explore this concept in future works. Aside from this, great video.
I love this, pt.2 pls
Digimon evolutions are so convoluted. They can evolve using "Digi-Eggs" which are like armor sets, multiple Digimon can combine into one, there's also DNA Digivolution with 2 Digimon combining into one, there's Hybrid evolutions where the kids themselves transform into Digimon by merging with one or more of the "Spirits of a Legendary Warriors", there's Warp Digivolutions where they just skip to their Mega form from Rookie, there's Biomerge Digivolutions where the kids and their Digimon become one, slide evolutions where they just go back and forth between two species as needed, and so so much more.
If this video never made, I don’t think I’ll ever know and understand Artificial classification and natural classification.
It is fun!
There is no competition with Monster Hunter, the game's design is unbeatable, the creatures are iconic, elegant, beautiful and their look communicates something important about the monster. I've never seen any game bring together so many wonderful and functional designs, and I'll never see in another game, any RPG dreams of having a cast of monsters like that. I mean, what ideas would be better than a Ceratopside Wyvern, panther-owl-wyvern, armored dinosaur with a smoking blade in its tail, literal super Saiyan monkey, and a dragon with propeller jets in its wings? very fine.
The reason for the convergent evolutions on Digimon is that when a Digimon devours another Digimon data, they absorb that data into their own. Data is basically their DNA. Their soul is their Digicore. As long as the core remains in tact, the Digimon can survive. Think of the digicore as their nucleus. There are Digimon who evolve in a very strange way. The Dorumon line in particular has a very interesting one that occurs through their own death. I don’t feel like explaining that one.
If I'm not mistaken the "elder dragon" classification in monster hunter is a purely artificial one for monsters that have 3 things in common:
- They are extremely powerful
- They are rare to find
- They have one or more yet to be explained characteristics or abilities
It has little to do with trap efficacy or biological relationships.
For example, traps don't work on Atal-ka or Ukanlos because they are powerful but they are not elder dragons because all the things they can do have a scientifical explanation.
The reason why Gore Magala is not an elder dragon even though it's a juvenile versone of the shagaru is because it lacks power since he's kinda on par with a Rathalos.
If I'm wrong please feel free to let me know
I heard once that the hunts in Monster Hunter only really take place once, but we are able to re-challenge them for gameplay purposes.
On top of the gills, another weird detail about Mosterverse Godzilla is its skeleton, in the credits of the 2014 movie, a godzilla skeleton is show, and the skull has a synapsid condition, only one temporal fenestra on the side. It also has a separation between a ribcage and lumbar vertebrae, another trait found in mammals and their close cynodont relatives. Despite the scene being made in a way that implies it to be a giant Mesozoic reptile, it's a mammal it seems. Maybe a giant radioactive firebreathing pangolin, those have scales and bipedalism too.
Kid me immediately thought that godzilla is a pangolin even though people keep saying its a lizard. Thanks for bringing this up and justifying kid me lmao. Though kid me also Wanted godzilla to be an armadillo and curl up into a ball, maybe roll around in that state
Correct me if I’m wrong, but they could just be analogous structures, no?
*Hypothesis regarding the Deviant forms of monsters in Monster Hunter:*
Deviant forms could be akin to the swarming form of locusts, where all members of a species are capable of growing into one of two forms, depending on whether or not specific stimuli and conditions are present or not. We may not know what those requirements are for the monsters in question to become Deviants, but the fact they are recurring, yet rare and different from their normal counterparts, strikes me as reminiscent of how different locusts are from their "grasshopper" counterparts and how rare a locust swarming event is. Also worth noting, it could be that the requirements for monster deviation are significantly more rare/specific than the ones locusts require to swarm, hence why they are so rare.
This is all just personal conjecture, though; I'm not an expert by any means, and I don't yet have any solid ideas for why this deviation would evolve in the monsters in the first place, much less why it would be advantageous. My only real guess is pressures from competition and/or fights with hunters and other monsters, but that's a rather broad generalization.
Elder dragons is similar to herbivores in that they are classified by how dangerous they are, they are “natural disasters in creature form” and “can destroy human civilization”also can’t be trapped in game. Kaijus are based on some radioactive or other humanity mistakes so they are like mutants in concept.
You are correct with the elder dragons, it's basically a catch all for any large, powerful entity that can alter the environment by an extreme degree and thus, i believe the reason why gore magala isn't considered an elder dragon, despite being a juvenile shagaru is probably because, despite how much it effects the environment, isn't significant enough to be seen as an elder dragon and the reason it isnt properly classified in other games is because they don't migrate as much as other wyvern.
For Pokemon, in the newest games they removed the requirement to use incenses to get baby pokemon. So breeding two Sudowoodo will always make a Bonsly, not a Sudowoodo anymore.
25:00 DIGIMON WORLD DUSK/DAWN MENTIONED WOOOOOOO
in the cartoons Pokemon evolve not based on level but sometimes necessity while in the game some evolve based on friendship. In my headcanon what triggers an evolution is a strong emotional reaction, be it happyness or stress so a healthy pokemon consistently forms an emotinal conection with its trainer up to the point of evolution (and you can calm that emotion pressing B) while in the wild more stressfull events can trigger early evolutions and explain the lvl 9 Salamancer
"Convergent evolution isn't a thing"
Crabs: "Am I a joke to you!?"
I personally refer to Gore Magala as a Juvenile Dragon, because for me its the Elder part that distinguishes the Trap Capture aspect, and maintains the "dragon shape" taxonomy. Where as for me, Kirin is an Elder but not a Dragon.
So I guess thats just another Artificial categorization!
...I figured Gore Magala should've been reclassified now that we all know what it is. But then you look at the lore and how this damn thing is born and...yeah let's leave it at "???" lol
Though if we want to talk about species classification, the Shin Megami Series could be interesting to look into as well.
You made this while you had some free time.
I am watching this because I have some free time.
We are not all that different now aren’t we.
There ARE more games like Digimon Dawn and Dusk, actually! The Digimon Story series, particularly the Cyber Sleuth games, are massive refinements of the formula used in Dawn and Dusk coupled with a great, albeit very slow-burning, storyline and characters for an older audience. I highly recommend them!
From the thumbnail alone I knew you had good taste. Digimon > Pokemon, and the american Godzilla is lacking... that certain something in my eyes. And MH is just great, lol.
Pokemon Evolution is based on the metamorphosis process of caterpillars and butterflies. Therefore Pokemon in the same line have different names, but are the same species, just like Caterpillars and Butterflies are the same species and have different names.
Would be cool to check out the species that show up in Peter Jackson's King Kong. I remember I had a book as a kid that would actually go over all the species and such. The species in that film seemed more realistic compared to the Monsterverse stuff.
These real world applications to see what franchises follow biology are some of my favorite!
I know this is only tangentially related, but I would absolutely love to know your reactions to Olimar’s Notes for the monsters from Pikmin.
Maybe the Monster Hunter Elder Dragon category is defined by how their abilities react to "Elder Seal".
Not sure about it's canonical function, but it seals certain advanced abilities of Elder Dragons, which to me implies it counteracts whatever makes them "supernatural" and because there is something to counteract they are put into the "supernatural" category aka Elder Dragon.
I always figured what really classifies elder as such is their extreme control over the elements outside of their body.
Dragões anciões, apesar das diferentes aparências, compartilham de algo em comum que os define em um grupo de monstros. Eles possuem um sangue que só é encontrado neles, o famoso "Sangue de dragão ancião" (que da origem ao elemento dragão). Como dito várias vezes no jogo, dragões anciões são criaturas que desafiam a lógica, então apenas me conformo de que um polvo voador tenha alguma relação com um dragão normal.
Observação: sobre o elemento dragão, ele tem sim origem do sangue dos dragões anciões, a explicação para criaturas que não são dragões anciões usar o elemento dragão é variada. Como por exemplo, o Deviljho, a explicação de como ele usa esse elemento é que durante sua vida ele deve comer muito alimento, e acaba comendo dragões anciões, por isso ele pode soltar o bafo de elemento dragão. Outro exemplo é o Zinogre Tenebroso, não é ele que tem o elemento dragão, ele armazena esse elemento que é provindo de seus insetos no qual tem simbiose, vi pessoas dizerem 2 hipóteses para como esses insetos usam esse elemento. A primeira hipótese é que eles sugam sangue (igual como os pernilongos fazem na vida real) e ao sugar sangue de um dragão ancião eles aderem o elemento dragão a eles, a segunda hipótese é que eles se alimentam de frutos que possuem esse elemento dragão, frutos esses que podem até ser coletados pelo caçador (não me lembro o nome), mas não explica como que esse fruto tem o elemento dragão. Acredito mais na primeira hipótese, apesar de ser facilmente contrariada.
Um abraço do Brasil!
Id like for Dragons to become a real Category in future MH games, one that only includes the Six limbed Dragons, thus monsters like Amatsu, the Mohrans and Cedeus can be considered Leviathans, Kirin a Fanged Wyvern (i guess), Dalamadur a Snakewyvern, Narkarkos and Yama Tsukami can get their own category of squid like animals.
As others mentioned, Pokemon's "Evolution" is not Darwinistic evolving but more akin to metamorphosis; there's even a number of cocoon pokemon including one named METApod. And there are several members of a shared species separated by Pokedex classification, mainly as a relic of game limitations at the time since its less frequent now - case in point, Miltank is classified as a distinct Pokemon from Tauros, and breeding the two is ... strange, yet Meowstic and Indeedee are not much less distinct from each other between their own Male/Female forms, and yet share a spot in the Pokedex.
Real-life animals do not exist in the Pokemon world; and never did. The anime used them as filler because of a limited selection. Theyve not appeared in a long time
digimon is my favorite out of these 4, basically my childhood