It's nice to see someone talking about the justification for Digimon evolution, because it's actually very simple, but so many people don't seem to get it. I'm assuming because they're comparing it to Pokemon. Yes, that dinosaur can metamorphose into a lion. That wouldn't make sense normally, but Digimon AREN'T normal biological creatures. They're artificial, digital constructs. Their data (akin to DNA) can entirely reprogram itself based on outside stimulus, unlike biological DNA. That dinosaur becomes a fridge with a minigun because it's a computer program that ate the computer program for a fridge and a minigun.
Yes so many always complain why Gatomon (Tailmon) Digivolves into Angewomon in the anime. Lie how can a cat turn into an angel? But it makes perfect sence when you consider that these are not bological creatures and that the ring around Gatomon (Tailmon)'s tail is a holy ring. Meaning this cat digivolves into an angel because it carrys around holy data with it and in that case of digivolution the holy data is just dominant.
That... Still doesn't help. Okay, so they're all data, that can somehow re-program themselves, sure, got it. But then is it conscious product or an automatic one? And by what mechanism is it limited? Because if automatic, then they shouldn't be able to not take on attributes from things they interact with, at least slightly - since they are data in an existence of data, so if they are capable of making memories, then that is also data in that data world and thus information regarding anything they interact with will be written onto their existence in a way that is accessible to be re-programmed into data they could harness for their physical forms as well. Unless Digimon aren't actually even remotely conscious and are incredibly simplistic simulations. Let alone anything else they eat being able to be re-programmed by them. So Digimon should constantly be highly amorphous being, taking on and losing and editing traits all over the place non-stop. And if conscious, then they should be able to re-program their data to anything they have knowledge of without having to incorporate the new data to do so - unless said program is just larger than theirs, but even then, they could incorporate unrelated data and turn it into whatever data they want, so long as they have enough raw data material to work with (and since they can live in a digital world, they should literally just be able to amass ambient data from the world around them - the ground, plants, rocks, water, air, light, sound, all of that is also data in a digital world). Either way, anything should be able to become anything with literally zero limitations while in the digital world. A Digimon should be able to Digivolve into just a car, not a car Digimon, just a car. Or a completely new Digimon, or just a nebula of data that doesn't waste any processing on making some simulated physical form - which should honestly be the most efficient form. Another issue that comes from consciousness of Digimon is, when one Digimon incorporates another into itself for data to use to Digivolve, since their memories are also data, they should have access to all knowledge that the absorbed one had. So, if conscious, a Digimon should be able to essentially mind-read any others that it assimilates, and even write false memories onto their data and expunge the memory of being incoporated and read and written on. And if automatic, then how does one not end up with random bits of another active and distinct consciousness vying for control or freedom, or at least gumming up the works? And, in the little short-hand example version, why would a dinosaur data that eats the data for a refrigerator and a mini-gun become a refrigerator with a mini-gun and not a dinosaur with with a refrigerator and a mini-gun, or a dinosaur with a few attributes of a refrigerator and a mini-gun. Hell, why a fridge with a mini-gun and not a mini-gun with a fridge? Or a mini-fridge with a gun? Or a random pile of machine components and coolant and gun-powder? Or a random pile of data? Biologically based creature properties get away with not having to make a huge rule-set because biology is already inherently incredibly limited, so you just have to show what is possible. Data based - in a data world, at least - however, has nearly limitless possibilities, so you need an in-depth list of which things are not possible and why, because that one would logically be the shorter list, as opposed to the biological one being opposite. Also, why would data end up being a dinosaur anyway? That's another core issue with Digimon. Why are there event Digimon? It's data, so it has a purpose and function, so who made it all and how and for what? Biological life is just an accident of chemistry that is good at doing chemistry so it keeps doing chemistry and thus keeps existing, when it ceases to be good enough at chemistry, it will cease to exist. The "abiogenesis" problem of data life becomes a huge hole that cannot be rationally filled in a digital world. It would have been much better if Digimon just said that Digimon was a game or website or program or whatever made by people that then got to run on servers and a learning algorithm long enough that people eventually argued that many of the creatures qualified as at least feeling creatures, if not fully sapient, and thus they have their own rights and culture and can meaningfully interact with humans. This would also explain all the Digimon wearing jeans and holding guns and being based on our mythologies and our natural world. And, more importantly, it would explain all the limitations - they were just put there artificially by people for the sake of the user experience. Solve so many problems. Though, you would need to remove the being able to cross between the digital and physical world too, but that is a huge mess for Digimon already, so it would be best to remove it anyway. I loved Digimon as a kid, and still find how unabashedly childish and stupid many of the designs are to be genuinely charming and funny, but any attempt at "lore" or anything like that has always been incredibly convoluted, and any attempt to explain away reasons to cover up holes in even internal or base logic has only served to rip open new or more or bigger holes. The silly and arbitrary nature of all the mechanisms of that universe only make sense if done by some people making up a bunch of junk.
@@julielandherr4686 i think you judt dont get the fundamental part about the digimon lore. Actually yes the digimon world/worlds are based on servers which exist Independently from each other and have their own administrative system and even their own Firewall. For example one of those servers is balanced by the royal Knight Digimon like for example alphamon, omegamon and gallantmon just to name a view. While another known server is balanced by the olympus 12 digimon like apollomon, minervamon and dianamon. There is even a case where the administrarive system of a known server wiped the server of all digimon because of Overpopulation with a virus called programm x. The survivors of this virus were able to produce antibodys to said virus which also became a crutual part of their data and these digimon were able to include it to their digicores which resulted in x antibody variations of certain digimon. It is not a concious process thus digimon are not able to include all data into their digicores makeing them essentially gods. They can gather data to basically boost their stats but not to evolve or morph themselves into whatever thy want. For a digimon to change this drastically there need to be either drastical enviormental influences, major external influences or dormant already existing data in the data of said digimon. Another popular example is gabumon it is basically also a dinosaur like Digimon (tje yellow part of it) but it actually wears the skin/fur of a garurumon (the White blueish part of it). This happens due to gabumons rather timid nature they try to hide/protect themselfs with said garurumon pelt. But in digivolution this pelt can become a dominant part of their data which results with it digivolving into garurumon. But it could for example also digivolve to dorugamon or veedramon. And no it does not overtake the conciousness of said garurumon. Its pelt is not living by itself or posess the conciousness of said garurumon the same way a furret pelt would not in the real world. Edit: no breathing the wrong air partical or eating something does not count as a major external influence. It is more like Adaptation in a sense of Natural Evolution.
@@julielandherr4686 A lot of this questions are answered in the lore of later installments It seems you only know the franchise from the early animes like adventures,02 and tamers I will try to answer as many questions that you have wrote Just for clarification, digimon lore is not consistent, and this is on purpose since a lot of the media takes place in different universes with different rules and logics for how digimon should work and act 1)Yes digimon are highly amorphous, they gain and lose traits all the time, and can get data from everything and anything they do, this has been a staple of the franchise since the beginning of the series, all the digimon world games that focus on the raising digimon aspect have this as a core feature, a automatic process that always happens, for example a baby digimon will always evolve into a kunemon if you make it sleep in a certain region of the forest in world 1 2)Yes, this process can also be conscious, digimon have emotions and thoughts, even a soul, so they can selectively know what to harvest and what not to evolve into what they want, the digimon world games that are rpg (the ones where you can evolve and devolve) focus on, for example, in the rearise gacha game, an angewomon evolves into lovelyangemon, because it uses data from japanese idols and divas because her tamer loved that type of person 3)Yes! Digimon can become anything and everything without limitations, all those 3 things you said have happened in the franchise, an alphamon transform most of his body into a real car, the new evolution thing happens all the time in the franchise (is like the most hype thing ever not going to lie) and digimon like zeedmilleniumon or death-X-mon are just a bunch of data and code that destroys things without using a physical body 4)There have been cases of digimon fighting for control because the process of digimon fusion/jogress usually makes 2 digimon with 2 consciousness become 1, for example in tamers a character uses a cyberdramon, a digimon fuse from the result of a dracomon and a zeedmilleniumon, they are both fighting for control most of the series and that usually result in aggressive outburst and killing sprees, and yes they can read each other minds 5)Mostly depends on what more data it has consumed, if he consumed more fridge data than dinosaur then he will turn into a fridge, if not then viceversa, or evolve into a middle point of both, take the digimon dorumon for example if he feeds on mostly natural data he can turn into a dorugamon, if he consumes more X digimon data he turns into a raptordramon and if he consumes mostly corrupted data he turns into a dexdorugamon 6)The origin of digimon is different in most timelines, the general lore is that the creator is this super computer/ai named yggdrasill that monitors them like an experiment/simulation to know how life works, there are other cases where they come from another dimention and have no clear origin, the dimension just works like that, in 1 and 0, my favorite origin is the original one, where hackers drop their programs into the internet and abandoned them and thanks to a bunch of lucky coincidences they managed to create artificial life 7)Yea digimon are a game/website in some lores, vtamer lore is that they are just the world where the vpets(toys) exist, in tamers they are canonically just a mmo that went rouge, in survive they are just yokai (japanese spirits and demons) taking form of a popular franchise of toys and game because they were discarded, any idea with digimon you have for their origin/how they work has already been explored believe me And lastly, for that last sentence Just enjoy childish things dude, is a franchise that fundamentally is about monsters made to be raised, it doesn't need all the convoluted plot and explanation, is nice to have but that doesn't make a franchise better, and all 90% of lore in any franchise is made on the spot, just look at dark souls,halo,sonic, hell even pokemon just writes lore as it went along, it took them to Arceus to finally retcon the existence of Raichu killing an elephant
@@BlackLion45 it's mostly that digimon lore can go all over the place depending on the game,anime or media that you consume on the franchise The lore of for example adventure can't exist in the same universe as tamers without the canon explanation of milleniumon The lore of ghost game can't exist at the same time that data squad Data squad can't exist in the same timeline as digimon masters online Masters online can't exist in the same lore as digimon linkz and so on
I think pokemon could replace the term "evolution" with metamorphosis, but digimon is on the clear as its "digievolutions" are more like the server's accelerated simulation of natural selection reaching the same optimal numbers.
Yeah, Digimon is a little wishy washy with the mechanics, but the general idea is that they're simulating rapid evolution based on an algorithm, and their programming limits it to some extent. Usually, a Digimon will be restricted into turning into something predictable. A dinosaur into another dinosaur, for example. At least in Tamers, the fact that they could change drastically was a discovery that concerned the human creators, so they made a program that would simplify their evolution to be more linear and sensible.
Well in the japanese terms digimon evolution stages instead of being fresh-in training-rookie-champion-ultimate and mega their baby level 1 - baby level 2 - child - adult - perfect and ultimate so technically digimon evolution is growing Up aswell
I mean technically evolving doesn’t have to be from one species to the next. It could literally just mean to change yourself such as to evolve one’s appearance or beliefs. So Pokemon isn’t wrong for calling it that it’s just not biological evolution in the way we know it.
The pokemon one does have an answer actually, but not many people know about it because it was in Japanese only material from decades ago. Around the time of Gen2 they had research notes from Oak where he talked about how his classification system was flawed, he was originally classifying different "species" only based on appearance and didn't know how to tell their gender, this is why the Nidorans are separated. He also muses that Taurus and Milktank are also the same species but with sexual dimorphism. Within this Oak then says that he can't fix his misclassifications now (very unscientific of him) because it would screw up the dex numbers. So it's very likely that full lines are intended to be different growth stages of a single species but the games just categorize them separately like Monster Hunter does.
@@Miraihi Pokemon Arceus is closely based on 1800s Hokkaido, so they have roughly 200 years of development until now if we assume that Hisui was one of the first to develop the pokeballs and release it towards the masses which would open the floodgates of possible innovation, we do know that tribes and acient people also used pokemon but they're most likely small close-knit groups that wouldn't reveal it towards outsiders.... or dead. acceptance towards pokemon is also a factor since some Pokemon could or would cause natural disaster level destruction.
I feel like "Elder Dragon" started out in-universe as a classification for 6-limbed reptilian monsters, but over time became more associated with monsters who possess borderline supernatural abilities. Considering how the Western Dragon body plan is less biologically realistic than the Wyverns that are more common in Monster Hunter, it makes sense that they would tend to possess additional "unnatural" qualities. Among hunters Elder Dragon has basically become shorthand for "unusual and extremely dangerous".
I'm inclined to agree but one really irritating and weird issue with that is that Gore Magala's classification is originally considered unknown even though it clearly has six limbs and scales, and its only non-ED trait is that it can be trapped or captured (and it's hard to imagine that those are actually universal ED traits in-lore, and certainly it may be the case that all young EDs can be trapped, not just Gore). This implies that having six limbs is NOT a standard for classification of elder dragons. Conversely, I've seen the theory that Kirin has small vestigial wings under its mane or lost its wings similar to snakes, and that EDs in general have six-limbed body plans.
EDs didn't started out as 6-limbed dragons. Gen 1 only had Kirin, Lao Shan Lung and Fatalis, Gen 2 introduced the elder trio, and Yama Tsukami. They were always meant to be a wastebasket taxon from the beginning.
@@vitriolicAmaranth Even after monster hunter 4 Gore still classified as "????" Kind don't make sense. You already know Sagaru is Elder Dragon come from Gore. Why not make it under develop elder dragon? And what make "Elder Dragon" as a type is kind out of place a Tunder horse, Dragon, Giant montain blob etc. The only similarity just they can't get trap, flash, or capture.
Minor correction on edible vs non-edible monsters: You *can* eat some Large monsters, but you have to give their parts (like tails) to the Canteen or your Handler, who will prep the meat and give you Well-Done Steaks. My guess is unlike herbivore meat that can easily be processed via carving, Large Monster meat needs more processing.
@@17Haru17 XD exactly Plus it would take a lot of time to butcher Large monster meat. Gotta get through the scales and hide that a hunter's weapons can only just get through.
It's probably the same with certain types of foods that require professional certification before being allowed to cook, like that one poisonous fish (puffer fish?) in Japan that can't be served by just any cook or chef.
Greetings my friends from beyond and within the grave. In the short time in which we inhabit this world, It would be my honor to offer you a new life with Christ. Let today be the day you begin✝️
that was actually a good summery of digimon they don't make sense and they won't ever make sense cause they're not "flesh and blood" animals they're computer data
I think you missed something in MH world, the head ecologist outright calls "elder dragon" a pile that creatures can get tossed on when they don't fit elsewhere.
Yep basically "no i don't know what to classify the giant dragon that absorbs energy from the ground and compressors it into lazer beams" Honestly my head cannon is that you could classify them however for one killing an elder dragon is a tremendous feet and only rly happens once every few years (unless you are the player character) so they don't get the chance to research them but also infomation around them seems to be suppressed by the guild as shown in the alatreon arc
@@diveblock2058 The main issue lies in the fact that Elder Dragons CANNOT be captured the same way other Large Monsters can. Thus, research guilds can NEVER work with live specimens, further obfuscating any data you can gather from them. Additionally, some are simply so dangerous that the mere idea of them would spark panic among the masses, hence why monsters like Alatreon are closely guarded secrets. Remember, all Elder Dragons are associated with destruction and calamity. If a Tigrex happens upon a settlement, sure. There'll be chaos. But it's just a big dino-dragon thing on crack. It goes down eventually, and there's an entire group of people dedicated to doing so. Elder Dragons, on the other hand, are so destructive that every time their presence is known, the primary directive for all Hunters in the region is to take it out. Study what you can from its corpse, but you simply cannot capture them. Even the Dragon Element itself is poorly understood. Every other weapon element is derived from Monster parts that produce the element. Electrodes, Fire Sacs, poisonous spines, organs that absorb Water, etc. Dragon Element stuff is primarily just made from the Bones of Elder Dragons or other monsters. No mystery organ, no obvious tell. We just know that if you use these bones to make this weapon, it glows red and shuts off the powers of Elder Dragons.
From memories, Elder Dragons really belong together in a branch of evolution, and it is a coincidence that the researches categorise them in the same way but with different rules.
I reaaaaaly likedd this video. Monster hunter is consistent with his clasification as you said, as a hunter, you just need to know certain things. Bird wyvern? okey, it can be trapped, they move fast, and use generally the same type of attacks. By using this classification, you can overall guess how the mosnter attack, which is really important, for example brute wyverns, ive realise usually have specialized tools, uragaan chin, deviljho mouth, brachydios arms, duramboros tail club... based on this you know, at least one body part of them is overused in their attacks. Deviants are basically overly stressed specimens that adapt rapidly due to something, in some cases failed hunts from humans, and are in lore extremely rare to encounter, apexes (MHRise) are affected by the stress of the wind serpent ibushi that moves them out of place, hardcore variants are very similar to deviants but instead they are basically older specimenss that are way better with their abilities Monsterverse is weird, its like, because the titans dont fit into the animal kingdom easily, they cant clasify them fairly, thus they make it simple and use code names. Pokemon its always about the evolution line, but it is weird how not even their categories fit, some pokemon have the same category been different species, and many change their category when evolve. Digimon is hell, which i love about it. Many knoledge of their lore, helps to understand it. Digimon have always existed in theory, it was the computer ygdrassil that tapped into the dimension via internet... which in the digimon franchise, the internet is basically an interdimensional place, we didnt created, we just found it. In the digital world, time is accelerated, an ygdrassil used this to experiment wwith evolution, in a few years, the digimon world develops for millions of years... this is why its so cluncky, the information humans send using the internet can reach the diggital world, and thats why human have shapped their live and evolution, even life styles. In short, ddigimon works as a simulation, in which yggdrassil analyses how evolution develops, this is why when a digimon dies, it can de-evolve, and it becomes another oportunity for different outcomes. Digimon physical appereance isnt even real, its just a videogame skin, their true self is their digicore, its their genes and even memories. Lastly, many digital worlds exist at the same time and all of them, are kinda connected, digimon can evolve into new forms, modes, etc. and when this happens, ygdrassil makes sso every digimon can achieve that form if they are related iin some way, this is way they can evolve into such different things. For example, the first metalgreymon that evolved into wargreymon, unlocked that evolution in every other universe or "server". This is the reason why, for example, many digimon can evolve into royal knights while not being them, they wont have the same power, but they can reach this evolution.
God the digimon part of this comment is so cool, I knew about this lore but was still kind of confused and you finally made it click in my head. My favorite part about this lore is megidramon X who in one dimension destroyed the entire digital world and because of it, it now exists everywhere else but it's origins aside from that are unknown
22:38, there was animals in the pokemon world but it was retconned, it was mostly a gen 1-2 thing where they treated pokemon like newly discovered species rather than the average fauna of the pokemon world, it basically stopped being cannon since takeshi shudo (main pokemon anime writer until gen 2) left the anime
Interesting, i thought the real animals were just supposed to be a place holder for future pokemon because there wasn't that many back then like there are now.
@@elishafollet5347 many pokemon are known as "the [animal] pokemon". Like Pikachu is the mouse pokemon. So somewhere in the pokemon universe, someone mjst have seen a real mouse and compared it to Pikachu.
In Monster Hunter, "Elder Dragon" is sort of a wastebin category, but is also specifically used for monsters that are so supremely powerful that the very presence of one warps the entire ecosystem in a large area. The presence of a Valstrax or Nergigante sends most of the local ecosystem, even predators, into hiding. A Gogmazios or Fatalis appearance is a civilization-ending threat. Many even have a degree of control over extreme weather: Amatsu creates enormous hurricanes and rainstorms, Kirin can generate massive lightning storms, Teostra and Lunastra bring extreme drought and heat waves, etc.
Digimon data evolution concept is unique in terms how they transform by absorbing data, not being restricted even by an abstract concepts. Essentially the digital world in Digimon franchise is a so-called "Noosphere" - the space where everything ever concieved exists.
Your tangent on Pokemon egg groups reminded me of the fact the Pokemon Feraligatr and Krookodile can't breed, despite being based on related animals they are not in the same egg group.
Could've sworn Feraligatr was in the Field egg group (like the majority of starters) but after a quick search its just in the Monster and Water 1 groups... Which means it can breed with Bergmite, Mareep, Chikorita, Clamperl, Pyukumuku, Corsola, Seel, and Bibarel but can't mate with another crocodilian
Meanwhile i thought both krook line and fuecoco line are at least also in the monster group. The more i look at it, the more i realize egg groups are quite jank.
Really cool to see someone try to take a more naturalistic viewpoint of Digimon considering how unnatural they are. If there ever is a follow up to this video I'd really hope to see you come back to Digimon to discuss some of the other aspects that incorporate themselves into the canon over time, such as the various Digimon subspecies, or even the story of Program X and how it mirrors an extinction event/genetic bottleneck.
@@OutofPlaceZoologistI’d say also look more into the lore especially with the whole DigiCore stuff and how Digimon die and reincarnate with their lack of sexual reproduction
@@MrDoreius honestly, given digimon are entirely *made* out of their attributes and classifications, being data and not "real", evolutionary covergence resulting in *literal* species covergence makes sense since, it's not an animal that has crab characteristics, it's "the data for crab characteristics" itself
In regards to pokemon, it seems like the "evolution" they undergo is actually a metamorphosis and rapid adaptation. There are evolved forms that simply went extinct due to the conditions they were suited for not being present anymore like some of the Hisuian forms, modern Stantler cannot evolve into Wyrdeer even if they meet the evolution pre-requisites since they lost that ability. It's worth noting that it's also implied in many cases that unevolved forms of certain pokemon can live out their entire lives in that form if they never have the need to evolve - they're kind of like axolotls in that they can be neotenous their entire lives. There is also "normal" evolution in pokemon, with pokemon changing their type and evolutionary pathways depending on the region they live in, and there being prehistoric pokemon that are ancestors to modern forms.
The problem with the Monsterverse is that while it has many writers that are talented , they are also somehow lazy on detail and worldbuilding,also has many interventions from the studio so it can't even star to be consistent .
If you want world building, then read the comic, or watch the tv show, which is connected with the movie. Godzilla genre in general doesn’t have world building anyway.
Also toho wont let them make godzilla (and probably the other toho monsters) into actual animals and not just monsters. While they could classify their originals and kong properly it could be that they dont want them to stand out from the others.
Digimon "family" is also called "field" and, based on the nature report style descriptions for the Pendulum Z, is supposed to refer to their habitat; so the same Digimon can be in more than one because they live in more than one place.
If I recall correctly, the flavor text for kirin explains that while at first glance they look like herbivores, their bodies being covered in scales and their having feet with claws is what makes them an elder dragon.
The thing about Digimon moving from one classification to another is because they are very volatile. The way they "feed on their prey" is not by eating in the regular sense, but by literally absorbing the prey data into their own. So if a bird absorb too much fish data, it will evolve into an aquatic species. Think of it as completely rewriting their DNA on the fly.
one great way to see digimon evolution is like a linguistic evolution every digimon is basically digital representation of a concept the more information are aggregated to that concept end up changing its meaning and evolve into a new concept
For Pokemon, in the newest games they removed the requirement to use incenses to get baby pokemon. So breeding two Sudowoodo will always make a Bonsly, not a Sudowoodo anymore.
Also on Gore Magala, in some recent book it is said that gore magala is born from the corpses of monsters that died infected with the frenzied virus, wich is probably why traps work on him
A resposta para Gore Magala cair em armadilhas e ainda ser um dragão ancião é que além de ser um "bebê" ele não seus olhos totalmente desenvolvidos por isso pode cair em armadilhas. Sobre o Xeno J'iiva não cair em armadilhas e também ser um "bebê" é o seu tamanho gigante.
Some monsters have sub-classifications. For instance, nargacuga, tigrex, and barioth are all flying wvyerns, but are in a sub-grouping called pseudo wyverns due to thier wings being used for ground locomotion where as true flying wyverns like rathalos, astalos, and paolumu use thier wings solely for flying.
Pseudo flying wyvern is a fanon term. Please be mindful that Monster Hunter community is choke full of outright lies such as "Fatalis regenerating from the sword." or "Deviljho will eat its own tail."
@@EarthWingedDragon tbh the Jho tail thing started by Capcom themselves when they advertised Jho back in gen 3, then it snowballed from there. Also despite the gameplay not showing it, it's not something out of the realm of possibility in-universe.
@@raydhen8840 Deviljho tail thing is a mass hallucination. I am sure the rumour exists before that video. The fact that small monster isn't synched to all player in old gen might be the true reason why this misinformation started.
Wait, really? Is this confirmed anywhere? That would make a lot of sense then. Does this only applies to deviant or does it applies to rise / sunbreak apexes too?
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Applies to everything, i just don't know where it's confirmed. But the lore of Deviants/Two Named Monsters states that they are unique among their species. Also it wouldn't make sense to hunt multiple Dire Miralises, Zorah Magdaroses, Xeno'Jiivas and Safi'Jiivas, etc. Safi is also not the same individual as the Xeno we defeat in base game World. Monster Hunter Frontier even has a category of monsters called "extreme individuals", which are, as the title implies, individuals, but you still can hunt them an unlimited amount of times each
Why wouldn't it make sense to hunt multiple of those monsters you specified? Aren't there skulls of zorah magdaros in the map? (forgot where it is, guiding land i think?) And for me personally, the safi we hunted being a different individual just implies that there are indeed multiple of those, so why wouldn't it make sense?
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Because each encounter with those specific species of monsters happens under extremely specific circumstances that simply would't happen multiple times consecutively. World's Xeno'Jiiva is born in the Everstream as soon as we step into his nest. You take the quest again, go to the same location, find the same previously unknown species in the exact same stage of development, hunt it again, repeat. When they wanted to make an actual second Jiiva in a more advanced growth stage (Safi), they set up a whole different arena for it, and made a different egg leftover that you can see from the accessible zone, to communicate that it's indeed a different individual born right there, far away from where the first Xeno was brought forth. Repelling Zorah Magdaros demanded a huge taskforce, and the entire game up to that point revolved around setting up that one time big event. The Commander says that's the only chance they have of repelling Zorah Magdaros, and that if they fail it will all be lost. You succeed. Then you go on the hunt again, and boom, another Zorah Magdaros spawns at the exact same place under the exact same circumstances and with the same NPC dialogues emphasizing that such an event is unique, unprecedented, an one time thing. The Zorah skull in the Frost Islands has a different size and anatomy compared to that of the one we fight in World, so it's probably a weaker relative. Also, the battle against it is fully documented in the secret texts scattered across the map.
I'm a biology nerd and I love Monster Hunter for that reason. I only got into it a few years ago because I'm bad at video games and I was so intimidated, but I wish I'd known how worth it it would be to delve into. Also I think the Elder Dragon classification is very useful even if artificial. It signifies just how powerful and dangerous a species is, even if a lot of them aren't actually dragons. Perhaps a natural classification of just "Dragon" would apply to the Elder Dragons which are dragons, like Fatalis, Kushala Daora, Shagaru Magala, and Malzeno. Perhaps the wider family would include the likes of Amatsu, Narwa/Ibushi, and Gaismagorm. In the main dragon family itself, Fatalis (and its variants), Dire Miralis, Alatreon, and Disufiroa could be their own subgroup. Though it's possible that Alatreon and Disufiroa are completely unrelated to Fatalis and Dire Miralis. Dire Miralis actually sounds like a binomial name lmao. Actually this makes me want to come up with binomial names for monsters... (and this led to a few hours of research and I had this whole giant thing typed up and then I realized I was being infodumpy, sorry about that)
Glad that you enjoy the franchise. I'm sure some people enjoy reading others' excitement about the franchise they also love, so no need to apologize really. As long as it's harmless, enjoy doing what you like to do and have fun
To be honest, i like the idea of doing so if we got more detail. Unfortunately, i'm so catered to academic practice that my brain wouldn't let me do so without enough evidence.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Well, there's a few details You forgot to mention when talking about the monsterverse. - Superspecies are lifeforms that are endemic and adapted to hollow earth ecosystems and require radiation to subsist. Titans are Superspecies that can cause environmental disruptions because of their natures. It doesn't have to do with size. - The Titans and superespecies DO have scientific names and belong to discovered taxonomic groups, and I don't only mean in Skull Island. For example: Godzilla is an Archosaur, and it's scientific name is Deinocanthus serizawii, And Ghidorah's scientific name is Mandandare Aquenomba. - Since Even by kotm (when the dumb "titanus" classification was invented) Monarch put a proper scientific name to Ghidorah, it's heavily implied that the "Titanus (codename)" only refers to the individual rather than the species (maybe because they're the last of their kind) and we just don't know the other titans scientific name. That or the actual scientific names got retconned with the Titanus thingy. - The Titans also have an artificial classification based on behaviour, Those who are passive and mean no intentional harm are labeled as "protectors", and the territorial ones are "destroyers" There's still a Lot of gaps to fill, but hopefully this is enough info for you to try and do an speculative video. Good video!
I'm super happy to see someone else gets that digimon don't follow the conventional evolution route due to their uniquely digital origins! But I do feel like you could have gone into a smidge more detail on the attributes. I'm not sure if you're fully aware, but attributes serve both the purpose of being a rock-paper-scissors type match up like with pokemon types, while also giving additional context to how the digimon behaves, almost like an alignment system, though it has nothing to do with morality. If we're treating it like data rather than animals, the way we probably should, attributes are like this: Virus is self explanatory. They corrupt existing data. Some can also interpret this as a creature that simply alters its environment to suit its needs. Data are like the default, pre-installed files when you boot up a new OS. You can also interpret this as being a creature that's already adapted to their environment. They're like native species, as opposed to the other two, which can be considered invasive. Vaccine are like antivirus protection. They restore corrupt data to its original state. They repair and heal their environment from damage caused by virus digimon. Variable is for a digimon whose attribute can change. They're like a swiss army knife, they can do a little bit of everything. Free is a grey area. They are sort of like the wastebin taxon. They're the files labeled as "misc", y'know? Virus beats Data, because it corrupts. Data beats Vaccine, because ultimately the antivirus bows to the OS. Vaccine doesn't alter the Data, just fixes it when it's broken. Vaccine beats Virus, because of course it does. Variable is like a weird tiebreaker for all 3 base attributes, and doubles up as a classification for hybrid digimon. If you mix a vaccine type with a virus type, you'd have a variable digimon, which can fulfill either niche as it pleases. Free is pretty rare and is basically considered outside the binary in this case.
Honestly a big part of what has always kept me engaged with Monster Hunter is the attention to detail. Particularly as the series has progressed, and they've put more effort into each individual model and environment, the various monsters, endemic life, and the world in general tends to feel more "alive" than the vast majority of games and series. Sure, it's a fantastical world that has things that couldn't feasibly exist in our world, but you can see how things fit together within its own ecosystem. If you see a random monster or creature in a MH game, you can usually tell that either it's meant to be there or it's an invasive species entering the area in the search for prey. Meanwhile half the time in games set in real world based locations, like Far Cry, the arbitrary placements of animals or the lack of animals often makes it feel more artificial even if it arguably should make sense. They're often simply standing around waiting to be found, with no presence within the environment aside from things like fish being in the water or birds flying in the sky.
I think in the series "monarch legacy of monsters" they explain that "titanus" refers to a creature that has the ability to cause massive environmental disruptions while smaller kaiju are just labelled as "superspecies" I think
Also, no mention to Regional Forms, a better example of REAL evolution in Pokémon. According to their habitat some species had to change to adapt. They aren't considered different species, unless they branch into a new species. Like Johtovian Sneasel evolve into Weavile, so being their older version. And Hisuian Sneasel evolve into Sneasler. Essentially they're all the same species just change their features to adapt to their environment. Like Sneaslers did hunt alone but weren't successful, other Sneasel prefered to evolve into Weavile who did hunt in packs, increasing their success rates.
Regarding Akantor, you can also see that one of its claws is facing backwards at an odd angle, bringing to mind the single limb that is used to support the wings of the Flying Wyverns like with the Tigrex, suggesting that it is vestigial.
Digimon evolution is very interesting in that it merges the idea of life stages and real-world evolution in a way that only makes sense in its own world-building. Going from Rookie stage to Champion stage is an aging process. Any Digimon that survives long enough and gains enough life experience will reach its next stage, but it is what factors into that time and effort that determines what they will become. In Digimon Adventure, this is why Gatomon stays in her Champion stage. She aged up to it naturally, while the other Digimon use the Digivice's connection to their partners to skip to higher stages. These evolutions never last and they cost a lot of energy that must be replenished with food and rest.
It makes sense that monster hunter gets by far the largest section. The devs have spent a lot of time thinking about the zoological nature of their creatures, their environments, and how they could make sense with real life creatures.
Despite using the term, Pokémon evolution is more like life stages or metamorphosis than evolution as it's understood scientifically in the real world.
About the Monster Hunter bit. Deviants/Variants are actually rare, it appears over and over again because of gameplay reasons. Also I don't see people talk about it much, Gore Magala actually doesn't contain "Elder Dragon Blood", a kind of blood that every Elder Dragon has.
As a bit of a deeper examination of digimon, as stated they are digital creatures, they have a sort of "soul" (core) which takes on data to form a body. in the wild, their transformations are based on the data they recieve from either their enviornment or outside influences, which is why they vary so much. but this changes a bit when they have a tamer where their forms now rely on their bond with that trainer which is why theyll generally stick to one line with them, but have seen instances of them getting corrupt forms when their tamers are in distress
I think Pokémon has some kind of optional metamorphosis. Because stage 1 Pokémon could grow to be old and reproduce as still stage 1 Pokémon, they don’t need to evolve for that (at least not some of them? Maybe those with like baby stages do need to evolve to reproduce it’d be weird if they didnt)
For the Pokemon stuff as someone else said, think of it more as metamorphosis than evolution as even some of the evolution requirements are not really evolving but just enhancing their previous body. Think of pokemon like Onix or Scizor, what's really happening is they are just putting on the item Metal Coat like a coat, it's just covering their body and in the process they chance to fit that coat. Onix gets... bigger? and Scyther's blades turn into pincers. A lot of item trade evolutions are like this, Electabuzz plugs itself in to get more electricity so it gets bigger, same with Magmar with fire or Rhydon putting the Protector on it's body to become Rhyperior. The only Pokemon that specifically talks about it's genetic makeup when evolving, as far as I know, is Eevee and how different elements react with it's cells to force it to evolve into something else entirely, ranging from basic elements, too much sunlight/moonlight and... love from it's trainer? Sylveon is the only weird one really lol Egg groups are a mess mainly due to breeding being a mechanic from gen 2 and Gamefreak never changing egg groups of older pokemon while also adding new ones over time, so some pokemon that are should clearly be related like Feraligatr and Krookidile cannot breed due to this while Feraligatr and breed with Turtonator (a fire turtle dragon). Silly stuff.
I love this. Also about gammoth and its relation to popo, yeah. Gammoth is a herbivore technically (so is diablos actually) but because they’re “large monsters” they have to be put in a different group. I think Oceaniz is doing videos on taxonomy and phylogenetic trees for all of the monsters.
I also have no idea about the underleveled Salamance, but I remember another case of this is wild encounter Gengar (which interestingly also comes in the same mechanic as Salamance, being S.O.S. call). Gengar and Slowking are both trade evolutions with Slowking having an additional requirement of holding King's Rock. There's a theory that while not impossible, trade evolution mons can evolve in the wild through experience. I think it goes the other way, the limitations come from being domesticated. Through care and comfort, the pokemon's potential is dulled when under care of a single trainer. Being traded (and thus leaving the comfort of their original trainer) triggers a survival instinct that allow certain species to reach their true potential. Of course this theory falls apart when we consider not every trainer provides care and comfort for their mons, and trading mons away are not inherently malicious. It's fun to theorize though
A little thing they added to the newer Pokemon games is regional forms and convergent evolution Pokemon. For example, they made versions of Vulpix and Ninetails that evolved to be ice types due to living in a certain environment. As for the convergent evolutions, they made Pokemon called Wugtrio and Toedscruel, that look like Dugtrio and Tentacruel, but aren't actually related to them at all; they just fill the same ecological niches as them in a different region in the world (kinda like carcinisation but also not lol)
Waaaaaayyyyyy back in the first season, we saw Ash's Charmeleon force itself to evolve to become stronger to fight Blaine's Magmar, so we know it's possible for Pokemon evolve before they're leveled up enough. Conversely, we've also seen the opposite with Ash's Bulbasaur, who resists its evolution triggers.
That's just Digi-jank. There's been so many different localizations by so many different people with so many different visions and ideas that the franchise can come off as disoriented and hyper-specific at the same time. The stage called "Super-Ultimate" was changed to "Ultra" a few years back, and the Digimon named "Lilithmon" bounces back and forth between being called Lilithmon and Laylamon, the same way Omni Shoutmon is called Omega Shoutmon from time to time.
@@mariofan1ish English localization really likes to avert biblical terms in their names, which is kinda silly when the digimon in question is based on literal biblical demon or angel.
Elder Dragons can probably be given natural classifications, but the term Elder Dragon, while a wastebin taxon, actually has specific criteria in order to be given which are more informative to the hunters and researchers, and that's likely why Gore Magala hasn't been given it yet. If i'm not mistaken, they need to have a substantial impact on the local ecosystem (no matter where they go). Like a permanently invasive species. Gore Magala isn't quite the same because while it does carry the Frenzy virus, it isn't the one technically responsible for the disruption of the ecosystem. So it's likely only ??? because of a technicality. But it's also too disruptive to be given any other classification, as it doesn't fit naturally into any ecosystem. Otherwise it would likely end up, in my opinion, as a fanged wyvern. This is all being pulled from memory and conjecture so I could be wrong.
outro critério para a classificação "dragão ancião" é que os dragões anciões compartilham de um sangue, tem até o item desse sangue nos jogos "sangue de dragão ancião" por isso que um Akantor mesmo causando um desequilíbrio ecológico não é um dragão ancião, por esse e outros motivos claro.
I'm not a Monster Hunter Lore expert, but the common trait of all the various Elder Dragons is not only that they can't be classified, but also the attribute of their body parts, their bones and blood. For the same reason Gore Magala is not an Elder Dragon because traps work on it, it's also not cause it's bones and blood don't have the same mysterious attributes as those of Elder Dragons. Also, it's another head-cannon of mine, but I take sub-species like half-way point of divergence from a species to another, like if Yian Garuga and Yian Kutku had a common ancestor that had evolved two distinct subspecies at some point.
Great video! I just wanna give a lil justification to Kirin being classified as an Elder Dragon. It's more of a cultural/myth thing in East Asian countries. Essentially, a Kirin/Qilin is an eastern dragon with the body of a horse (although there are some that have deer-like or similar bodies). This is why you can see some depictions of Kirin have scales on them; they're an eastern dragon. Since Capcom is a japanese company, it kinda makes sense that they'd put Kirin as an Elder Dragon Fun fact!: There's a japanese brand of beer called "Kirin" and you can see a more faithful depiction of a Kirin as their logo
The Monsterverse would've been a *true* marvel if it stuck to the grounded/naturalistic feel, remember when Goji reacted to the military shooting at him, especially at his vulnerable gills, and the building that fell on him? (not to mention that the male MUTO got killed via tail-slammed and impaled on rebar) Good times...
The early movie was a true marvel, meanwhile the recent one truly feels like a marvel movie (Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation to make that foolish pun)
He reacts to the military in every movie my guy. Did you not see how he freaked out on the drones they were bombing him with in the new movie? He was so pissed off he exploded
@@GoGoBean34 Eh still tho, in the new movie and the previous one he bloody *sprinted* jumped even, and that wasn't when he was in the Hollow Earth, which should've been the only scene to pull off such moves cuz of the whole differing gravity.
@@jennyfeare1702 why though? It's awesome when he leaps into action, sure it's a little silly but that's part of the fun of the movies. If you want something more grounded and slower paced we still have minus one and shin movies to fall back on
One of the things to keep in mind for Digimon evolutions is that one of the things that affects their ability to evolve is psychology and emotion, in a way that is a lot more universal than the handful of Pokemon where that's a mechanic. In that context, it makes a lot more sense that their evolutionary trees are all weird and full of dramatic changes, especially with how often they're bonded with kids and teenagers, whose emotions and personality profiles are still actively developing.
On top of the gills, another weird detail about Mosterverse Godzilla is its skeleton, in the credits of the 2014 movie, a godzilla skeleton is show, and the skull has a synapsid condition, only one temporal fenestra on the side. It also has a separation between a ribcage and lumbar vertebrae, another trait found in mammals and their close cynodont relatives. Despite the scene being made in a way that implies it to be a giant Mesozoic reptile, it's a mammal it seems. Maybe a giant radioactive firebreathing pangolin, those have scales and bipedalism too.
Kid me immediately thought that godzilla is a pangolin even though people keep saying its a lizard. Thanks for bringing this up and justifying kid me lmao. Though kid me also Wanted godzilla to be an armadillo and curl up into a ball, maybe roll around in that state
While not monsterverse related. Godzilla: Singularity Point(Anime) shows him going through his three stages and also explains why it has gills. It's rather slow paced but the payoff was worth it imo. That first Atomic breath scene was so well done(visuals, music, etc.)
For Monster Hunter; Black Diablos is weird, because subspecies monsters in the original Japanese are just called " Subspecies". So, fixing the issue with Black Diablos being a variant and not a subspecies would mean renaming the monster. This is also why the Rare Species group exists. Without it, Azure and Silver Rathalos would both be called "Rathalos Subspecies". For Akantor and Ukanlos being flying wyverns; they really seem to fit the fanged wyvern category, being wingless quadrupeds. They just predate that category, that is all. The lore about them having lose their wings is more a coping mechanism to justify the category, rather than reclassifying it. From memory, the only things that ever got reclassified are small monsters, like the Bullfango from herbivore to fanged beast, or gajau from piscine wyvern to fish. I imagine the same would happen with Laviente, a giant snake that predates the snake wyvern classification. For Pokemon, Baby Pokemon is actually a slightly different term. It refers to those that cannot breed, but their evolutions can. For example, pichu. It is freely available via breeding without an insence. The insences just exist because Game Freak seems to be allergic to some kinda of retconning. They don't want to add new evolutions or prevolutions that you would mechanically be able to collect in older games. So, the insences exist because that means there is a reason you couldn't get those Pokemon before. Piloswine evolves while knowing ancient power because it couldn't learn that move in the games its evolution didn't exist in. This also gives the funny implication that in the first generation, our Pokemon never had a sense of friendship with us. It's also worth noting that some evolutions really have a difference in their mechanical and lore-wise depiction. A single magnetite evolves into a single magneton in the games. In the lore however, it is noted as 3 magnemites coming together and sticking to one another.
You can actually still see the remnants of Akantors wing membrane on its forelimbs, it is small and very spike like but still present and notably comparable to Tigrex so its classification makes sense. Also Elder Dragon was not a classification in the first game, Lao and Fatalis were just considered Wyverns and Kirin a “Beast”.
Personally, I’ve got beef with Pokémon egg groups. This led me to reclassify half of all the Pokémon into renamed and subdivided egg groups; the highlights are rodents going into the “Mouse” group, ungulates going into the “Hoofed” group, and ghosts and invertebrates being separated from Amorphous into “Spectre.” No longer shall Gardevoir breed with Gastrodon, nor Wailord with Skitty. It was a really fun exercise, if you’re reading this and are interested, I can post the Google doc link.
Wow, i just started watching your videos for the zoology content, i wasnt expecting to see zetton suddenly staring back at me! Related to monsterverse, there's an entire ecosystem in hollow earth yet to be explored. Lots of interesting animals down there, i think. Might give clues as to the origins of some of the larger monsters
a little detaill about the deviants of mh its that in the "lore" of the games, each quest can be completed only 1 time, you can go and kill the monster 1000 times but in your own lore the monster was killed only 1 time, because of this we can say that the deviants are less common that you said in the video
Digimon evolution fascinates me bc of the concept of a DNA equivalent - their data - being freely changeable within an individual to an extent unseen in real animals. It's really like if the rules for evolution itself followed different scientific laws and I love that.
Man, Kirin was a trip the first time I fought it. I got into world after Icerborne was released, and the Kirin quest in the base game is optional, so I didn't fight one until into the dlc, so I had seen the behavior where certain traps don't work properly on certain monsters. What I mean by that, is that some non-Elder Dragons don't get affected by certain traps i.e. rajang and furious rajang will break pitfall traps sometimes, and a shock trap will charge furious rajang into his higher level state, as well as doing the same thing to zinogre. SOOOOOOO, I fought Kirin for the first time after seeing these funny little guys being nuisances with my traps, and when I finally got Kirin to sleep, not knowing what it was yet, I tried to trap the unicorn. The shock trap did nothing, so I thought that maybe it was because it was a lightning monster, and a lightning trap, you know, like zinogre. Then I tried a pitfall trap, which also didn't work. It's not a dragon, it's a unicorn, why can't I trap the unicorn and keep it as a pet (only kind of a joke). I did figure out after a minute or two that it was considered an "elder dragon", in that it is completely unaffected by man-made traps, but those few minutes were an interesting experience where I went through a lot of the same realizations as you talked about here, albeit, without knowing the proper terms on what to call things. It's always something I've found interesting in the games, and the whole reason I watched this video. Also, TECHNICALLY, Nergigante is not an elder dragon, it is some form of other asexually reproducing abberant species that hunts elder dragons for their bio-energy stuff to regenerate and reproduce. But PRACTICALLY, because you can't use traps on it, it is also considered an elder dragon. Schrodinger's Elder Dragon if you will (I know that's not exactly true, but still). All the little things like that in the games make it feel more alive and interesting while you're playing, and they make me appreciate the games even more.
As a fellow zoologist, I loved this. Congrats, mate! you made a fantastic video! Even though I got to play all of those franchises when I was younger, I never saw them this way, it was so fun and fascinating.
for monster hunter, also absolute rules apply to elder dragons like you cant trap them. if you cant trap something and its ??? -> elder dragon until mechanic changed or explained by special traits like "monkey dont fall into pittrap" (just as an exmaple for a currently non existent monster). there are quite a few mentions of something special about monsters. also for subspecies there are a few other interesting ones. Diablos with black diablo + the monoblos or the yian kutku with the yian garuga which seems more like a mutation than just a sub species :D found the video randomly and has me thinking. very good video o7
This is really cool, good job! I would love to see you expand this to even more fictional universes. I would recommend the How to Train Your Dragon Franchise. It really well applys the artificial classification of the dragons by class, but doesnt really explore the natural classification, however despite that, there are some very clear phylogenetic links between many of the species, and I think it would be really cool to explore
On Monsterverse classifications: it would have been better to swap the "genus" and "species" names. So "Gojira Titanus". Thus establishing each monster as belonging to a different genus. Of course, it still says nothing of the rest of the species/genus. Personally, I would label them Gojira gojira titanus, or G. gojira titanus. Leaving open the idea and possibility that there are non-titanic gojira out there.
I assume they gave that up because realistically this naming convention denotes a specific shared class and maybe niche of organism not a taxonomical family. Godzilla is a reptile and heavily hinted to be an archosaur, Kong is a mammal and a primate, Scylla is likely a crustacean or cephalopod, and Mothra is an insect or at least a type of arthropod. But they are all a sort of super megafauna that evolved to feed on radiation convergently.
The creatures in the monsterverse actually do have scientific names, with literally every creature native to skull island having a scientific name, some creatures in the Hollow Earth having names, as well as, very surprisingly Monster Zero, aka King Ghidorah, having a scientific name: Mandandare Aqenomba, although you could say that is due to him being extra terrestrial in origin.
Just adding a comment on the MH series: It tends to be relatively consistent partially because the classification is tied to the skeleton the developers use to animate the monster. Having common skeletons help creating new monsters faster as they can reuse the skeleton. As a consequence, monsters from a same group (except elder dragons) will share similar biological structure. Here is the explanation for Ukanlos and Akantor: They aren't flying and aren't looking like other flying wyverns at first, but both of them are using the flying wyvern skeleton as base. Of course, there are exceptions. Kulve Taroth for example is an elder dragon, but uses the same skeleton as Great Jagras, which is a fanged wyvern.
as for the pokemon that evolve in the wild at lower levels, i personally think of the stated ways a pokemon evolve in game as what is needed for them when in captivity, similar to how many wild animals have different life expectancies when in a zoo vs the wild. Perhaps a wild pokemon living under harsher conditions would need to evolve at a lower level in order to survive, sometimes under certain conditions you can find pokemon like espeon that evolve via friendship in the wild, which shouldnt happen since they would need a trainer for those friendship levels. So I like to think the friendship level requirement for some pokemon is needing them to trust their trainer to properly evolve under captive conditions, similar to how some irl animals like cheetahs can become stressed in captivity and wont reproduce unless they’re comfortable in their environment
another interesting fact about Digimon is that their evolution line is more about psychological growth, which is why different creatures may evolve in to the same one, you can see it also in the way they act and talk. in canon the evolution also depends on the kind of data the digimon was able to find across the web and the experiences they had. Digimon lore is kind of weird about how it works exactly but the gist of it should be that, whenever a digimon undergo a slight change in its body the system registered it as an alternate form (agumon > black agumon; botamon > nyokimon) while if its a big one it registers it as a new evolution. examples: the first metal greymon was a greymon that partially mechanised its body, the moment this happened the system recognized and registered it as a new evolution, which allowed the other greymons to digievolve in to metal greymon without having to undergo the same treatment.
Black variants of Digimon actually occur following the ingestion of a substance called Black Digitron. It causes the Digimon to become much more aggressive, and heightens their core physical attributes, two factors that a majority of Digimon media seems to overlook when utilizing them in their stories. Knowing what we know now about how they come about, WarGreymon and BlackWarGreymon should not have been so evenly matched as they were.
There is no competition with Monster Hunter, the game's design is unbeatable, the creatures are iconic, elegant, beautiful and their look communicates something important about the monster. I've never seen any game bring together so many wonderful and functional designs, and I'll never see in another game, any RPG dreams of having a cast of monsters like that. I mean, what ideas would be better than a Ceratopside Wyvern, panther-owl-wyvern, armored dinosaur with a smoking blade in its tail, literal super Saiyan monkey, and a dragon with propeller jets in its wings? very fine.
Another game series with an interesting ecosystem to discuss would be lost planet. Lost planet was such a good franchise and in my opinion underrated definitely recommend checking it out for anyone that likes monster hunter especially it’s not really like monster hunter, but it has giant monsters, you more or less hunt and with Mechs.
@@koopapoopypanya9485 Xino: Blue Pho: Light Titanus: Of great size, to call giant or large. Imperator: Emperor So giant emperor of blue light, or giant blue light emperor, something along those lines.
28:00 They call it "families" because of a translation error. They are actually called "fields". Because they refer to a real geographical location within the digital world. (google translate)
Finally someone who gets Digimon evolution! Because they're _digital,_ of course they don't develop based on our rules of biology. It's all about assimilating data and even then they tend to evolve along family or elemental lines; like, a fire lizard is likely to evolve into a dinosaur or a dragon or a fire elemental
Imo the explanation for fighting deviants multiple times is simply that only the first fight is canon. Much in the same way that only the first time you fight Fatalis in World is. You’re not fighting multiple Fatalis’.
Honestly more on digivolution is that there is a myriad of types (Digivolution, sustained digivolution, dark digivolution, armor, dna, bio merg, there are just so many types), like for example we see sustained digivolution in episode one when the in training digimon move up to their rookie stages and stay there for and indefinite period of time unless they are knocked down to in training do to loosing code from significant damage. Normal digivolution on the other hand is temporary and converts human emotion into code to push the digimon into a higher stage, a drawback of the system being that the digimon can't do it while hungry, and iirc we do see one de-evolution based on food when they go back to in training because food is scarce. Though this raises a interesting evolutionary issue, gatomon, the only other sustained digivolution we see in adventures 1, has a digipedia entry stating that it's signature gloves are "Made of data stolen from a saberleomon" meaning for gatomon to sustained digivolve she had to somehow aquire that code on her own as a salamon, her rookie stage. And in certain digital worlds sustained digivolution doesn't mean a digimon can't go down a stage and then evolve into another assuming the meet the criteria if their iteration of earth and the digital world allow it. Also something neat name wise about digimon is their names can put them into families, like greymon, anytime grey appears in a dragons name, except dorugreymon because that was miss localized, it means that digimon is tracebly related to tge ancient greymon. Or dorumon being a shortened name that fully reads "Digital-or-unknown-monster" which every digimon in its canon line except alphamon share... Also dex digivolution is basically dorumon dying until it becomes a digital nidhogg hellbent of felling yggdrasil known as dexmon, "Death-X-Evolution-monster" and every stage of that downward digicoreless spiral gets both the dex and doru suffixes until the inevitable mega that wishes to destroy the very entity that birthed it's world and it and created the conditions for it to exist because the dumb super computer wanted to preserve it's own life... If I had a nickel for Everytime that dumb tree nearly merced itself, I'd probably be rich. Anyways if you read all this, congratulations, welcome to the downward spiral that is digimon lore. Have fun researching the x-virus, bantos, the sovereign, the 7 demon lords, the 13 royal knights, and every digital world in this vast chaotic multiverse where we have two butterflymon and two bearmon, where there is only two of them because linguistic quirks because kuma in kumamon means bear and hudie in hudiemon means butterfly, btw kumamon and bearmon swapped there names during localization... Welcome to the agony that is bandai.
Kinda funny that almost all the groups you mentioned in your third paragraph are actually the thing that made me love the digimon franchise since i was young as my top 5 favorite digimons are examon, lucemon SM, azulongmon, dex dorugoramon, and gigaseadramon (unrelated but saying top 4 feels kinda weird)
Digimon evolution can be tricky as there are several factors involved. There's natural Digivolution where the Digimon will reach their next stage through simple aging as well as the data of the environment and psychological state, they'll remain at that stage (Adventures Kuwagamon, the dark masters and so on). There's psychological Digivolution where the emotional state of the digimon (natural or tamed) will determine their next stage regardless of the environmental data, Lopmon is a good example of this. There's bond Digivolution for the tamed digimon, their Digivolution lines can change depending on their own psychological state and their tamers along with the bond between them. They'll have a natural bond line, divergent bond line and dark/corrupted bond line. Tai forcing Greymon to Digivolve causes a dark Digivolution to Skullgreymon, later he went to his natural bond line of Metalgreymon. Takato filled with grief and rage caused Guilmon to dark Digivolve to Megidramon, when Takato and Guilmon calmed down they went back to their natural line of Gallantmon(Dukemon). Adventure 02 is an example of Divergent lines. Veemon to Ex-veemon (natural), Veemon Armour Digivolution (Divergent). I would class Jogress Digivolution in this catalogue too. There's probably a lot more about Digivolution and I may also be wrong about some information I've wrote but this is my understanding of Digivolution.
Holy shit. Imagine if you were to hunt a Zinogre but there was a chance for it to be a Deviant Zinogre. That would make the game even more fun and enjoyable. It shouldn't be a super low chance because, obviously, you need his parts for equipments, but it would still be so much more interesting.
Elder Dragon is a fine classification. It's used to categorize things that aren't natural, like monster is in our world (but for branding reasons monster applies to natural and unnatural creatures in Monster Hunter). If we took it to the extreme that I'd want to then they would belong to an entirely different Tree of Life.
Digimon evolutions are so convoluted. They can evolve using "Digi-Eggs" which are like armor sets, multiple Digimon can combine into one, there's also DNA Digivolution with 2 Digimon combining into one, there's Hybrid evolutions where the kids themselves transform into Digimon by merging with one or more of the "Spirits of a Legendary Warriors", there's Warp Digivolutions where they just skip to their Mega form from Rookie, there's Biomerge Digivolutions where the kids and their Digimon become one, slide evolutions where they just go back and forth between two species as needed, and so so much more.
Digimon are heavily tied to the tamers emotions and thoughts. They are a vessel to show character and character growth, which gets a bid muddied in some of the games, where they become more of stats to look out for. But given their nature as tamagochi-like digital pets, the carers emotional state and responsibility had a direct influence over their course of evolution, which laid the basics for the later games (Digimon World 2 up until Cyber Sleuth, with the exceptopn of Digimon World and it's PS4 follow-up) and for the Anime as well. The anime then depitcs the use of digimon as allegoric aspects of the tamers really great (as long as you forget that X-Wars and Adventure 2020 exist, those are garbage and just made to show off). So in the case of Digimon it would be better to talk about it's concept as a magic system than a natural, scientific one, I guess.
Pokemon Evolution is based on the metamorphosis process of caterpillars and butterflies. Therefore Pokemon in the same line have different names, but are the same species, just like Caterpillars and Butterflies are the same species and have different names.
in the cartoons Pokemon evolve not based on level but sometimes necessity while in the game some evolve based on friendship. In my headcanon what triggers an evolution is a strong emotional reaction, be it happyness or stress so a healthy pokemon consistently forms an emotinal conection with its trainer up to the point of evolution (and you can calm that emotion pressing B) while in the wild more stressfull events can trigger early evolutions and explain the lvl 9 Salamancer
12:30 the explanation for hunting deviants in monster hunter over and over again is that they are actually the ‘same’ monster, and every hunt is technically the same hunt. Like a snap shot in time. That’s also why you can repeat your fights against fatalis is many games, or repeat notable fights like that.
for Pok'e Mon, a lot of them have different species classifications despite being in the same evolutionary line. and some even have overlapping species classifications even when they aren't closely related. Fore Example, Blastoise is a Shellfish Pok'e mon despite being a turtle, which Kabuto and Kabutops share with it, despite being trilobites. Even more weird, is that pok'e mon that are clearly subspecies of each other like the regional forms will often have different species names, like Ponyta being the Fire Horse and Galarian Ponyta being the Unique Horn. And Finally, there are nolonger real world animals in pok'e mon. Those have been retconned out, and even then, it was only ever shown in the first season of the anime.
@@nabuchodonosormcgalapatram6941 It's a force of habit from when I was little because I couldn't figure out how to type this é thingy (still don't know how without googling it first lol), and because originally Pokémon was stylized as Poké Mon (because it's derived from Pocket Monsters) Old habits die hard I'm Afraid.
@@oucyan Well, it was always "Pokémon", written like this, the "é" being here to show that it's not pronounced "Pokeemon" by English speakers because it's indeed "Pocket Monsters" in Japanese. But I totally get why it became a habit for you, as a French guy, I never had this problem, but that's just because the "é" is a lot more common in French and therefore, easier to type...
I personally could see the relative abundance of deviant monsters with the same kinda of bizarre changed traits as extreme examples of phenotypic plasticity, where the ability for it to happen is always in the monsters genetic code, but it just rarely ever happens except for in very specific conditions
Just a little something to note about deviants. The thing with them is that they're usually a result of something repeatable yes, same situation with variants and how a Furious Rajang is what you get when a Rajang looses its tail and survives or a Scarred Garuga is just a battle scarred veteran of its species, and as a result deviants themselves are considered a sub-category of variants. The difference with deviants is that, while the conditions that create one can indeed be repeated, usually said conditions are either more of a rarity, or the monster in question is less likely to survive the process. Thunderlord Zinogre are the result of a genetic defect that overcharges their normally latent thunder organ. Soulseer Mizutsune are blinded individuals who start feeding on bomb arowana since they can no longer catch the smaller and faster fish they would normally predate upon. Elderfrost Gammoth and Silverwind Nargacuga are both just older representatives of their species that learned some new tricks along the way. Rustrazor is simply a Shogun Ceanataur that wears Glavenus skulls, the metallic material of the fangs coating the Ceanataur's claws whenever it sharpens them. Most of the deviants are like this, with some exceptions (Bloodbath IIRC is supposed to just be a specific individual). And admittedly, there's some that probably should just be reclassified as variants, like Crystalbeard which is just a male Uragaan decorating itself with rare gemstones to attract a mate. But for a good chunk of the deviants, them being in their own classification makes a fair bit of sense from the artificial categorization side of things I'd say.
For monster hunter and its subspecies/deviants. Sub species are essentially the same monster. However, they utilize different elements and tools in their movesets. So, like how barrioth uses ice, Sand Barrioth uses sand. They both both fight almost the exact same way. The only differences are that they grew and how they utilize that
It's nice to see someone talking about the justification for Digimon evolution, because it's actually very simple, but so many people don't seem to get it. I'm assuming because they're comparing it to Pokemon. Yes, that dinosaur can metamorphose into a lion. That wouldn't make sense normally, but Digimon AREN'T normal biological creatures. They're artificial, digital constructs. Their data (akin to DNA) can entirely reprogram itself based on outside stimulus, unlike biological DNA. That dinosaur becomes a fridge with a minigun because it's a computer program that ate the computer program for a fridge and a minigun.
Yes so many always complain why Gatomon (Tailmon) Digivolves into Angewomon in the anime. Lie how can a cat turn into an angel? But it makes perfect sence when you consider that these are not bological creatures and that the ring around Gatomon (Tailmon)'s tail is a holy ring. Meaning this cat digivolves into an angel because it carrys around holy data with it and in that case of digivolution the holy data is just dominant.
That... Still doesn't help. Okay, so they're all data, that can somehow re-program themselves, sure, got it. But then is it conscious product or an automatic one? And by what mechanism is it limited?
Because if automatic, then they shouldn't be able to not take on attributes from things they interact with, at least slightly - since they are data in an existence of data, so if they are capable of making memories, then that is also data in that data world and thus information regarding anything they interact with will be written onto their existence in a way that is accessible to be re-programmed into data they could harness for their physical forms as well. Unless Digimon aren't actually even remotely conscious and are incredibly simplistic simulations. Let alone anything else they eat being able to be re-programmed by them. So Digimon should constantly be highly amorphous being, taking on and losing and editing traits all over the place non-stop.
And if conscious, then they should be able to re-program their data to anything they have knowledge of without having to incorporate the new data to do so - unless said program is just larger than theirs, but even then, they could incorporate unrelated data and turn it into whatever data they want, so long as they have enough raw data material to work with (and since they can live in a digital world, they should literally just be able to amass ambient data from the world around them - the ground, plants, rocks, water, air, light, sound, all of that is also data in a digital world).
Either way, anything should be able to become anything with literally zero limitations while in the digital world. A Digimon should be able to Digivolve into just a car, not a car Digimon, just a car. Or a completely new Digimon, or just a nebula of data that doesn't waste any processing on making some simulated physical form - which should honestly be the most efficient form.
Another issue that comes from consciousness of Digimon is, when one Digimon incorporates another into itself for data to use to Digivolve, since their memories are also data, they should have access to all knowledge that the absorbed one had. So, if conscious, a Digimon should be able to essentially mind-read any others that it assimilates, and even write false memories onto their data and expunge the memory of being incoporated and read and written on. And if automatic, then how does one not end up with random bits of another active and distinct consciousness vying for control or freedom, or at least gumming up the works?
And, in the little short-hand example version, why would a dinosaur data that eats the data for a refrigerator and a mini-gun become a refrigerator with a mini-gun and not a dinosaur with with a refrigerator and a mini-gun, or a dinosaur with a few attributes of a refrigerator and a mini-gun. Hell, why a fridge with a mini-gun and not a mini-gun with a fridge? Or a mini-fridge with a gun? Or a random pile of machine components and coolant and gun-powder? Or a random pile of data?
Biologically based creature properties get away with not having to make a huge rule-set because biology is already inherently incredibly limited, so you just have to show what is possible. Data based - in a data world, at least - however, has nearly limitless possibilities, so you need an in-depth list of which things are not possible and why, because that one would logically be the shorter list, as opposed to the biological one being opposite.
Also, why would data end up being a dinosaur anyway? That's another core issue with Digimon. Why are there event Digimon? It's data, so it has a purpose and function, so who made it all and how and for what? Biological life is just an accident of chemistry that is good at doing chemistry so it keeps doing chemistry and thus keeps existing, when it ceases to be good enough at chemistry, it will cease to exist. The "abiogenesis" problem of data life becomes a huge hole that cannot be rationally filled in a digital world.
It would have been much better if Digimon just said that Digimon was a game or website or program or whatever made by people that then got to run on servers and a learning algorithm long enough that people eventually argued that many of the creatures qualified as at least feeling creatures, if not fully sapient, and thus they have their own rights and culture and can meaningfully interact with humans. This would also explain all the Digimon wearing jeans and holding guns and being based on our mythologies and our natural world. And, more importantly, it would explain all the limitations - they were just put there artificially by people for the sake of the user experience. Solve so many problems. Though, you would need to remove the being able to cross between the digital and physical world too, but that is a huge mess for Digimon already, so it would be best to remove it anyway.
I loved Digimon as a kid, and still find how unabashedly childish and stupid many of the designs are to be genuinely charming and funny, but any attempt at "lore" or anything like that has always been incredibly convoluted, and any attempt to explain away reasons to cover up holes in even internal or base logic has only served to rip open new or more or bigger holes. The silly and arbitrary nature of all the mechanisms of that universe only make sense if done by some people making up a bunch of junk.
@@julielandherr4686 i think you judt dont get the fundamental part about the digimon lore.
Actually yes the digimon world/worlds are based on servers which exist Independently from each other and have their own administrative system and even their own Firewall. For example one of those servers is balanced by the royal Knight Digimon like for example alphamon, omegamon and gallantmon just to name a view.
While another known server is balanced by the olympus 12 digimon like apollomon, minervamon and dianamon. There is even a case where the administrarive system of a known server wiped the server of all digimon because of Overpopulation with a virus called programm x. The survivors of this virus were able to produce antibodys to said virus which also became a crutual part of their data and these digimon were able to include it to their digicores which resulted in x antibody variations of certain digimon.
It is not a concious process thus digimon are not able to include all data into their digicores makeing them essentially gods. They can gather data to basically boost their stats but not to evolve or morph themselves into whatever thy want.
For a digimon to change this drastically there need to be either drastical enviormental influences, major external influences or dormant already existing data in the data of said digimon.
Another popular example is gabumon it is basically also a dinosaur like Digimon (tje yellow part of it) but it actually wears the skin/fur of a garurumon (the White blueish part of it). This happens due to gabumons rather timid nature they try to hide/protect themselfs with said garurumon pelt. But in digivolution this pelt can become a dominant part of their data which results with it digivolving into garurumon. But it could for example also digivolve to dorugamon or veedramon.
And no it does not overtake the conciousness of said garurumon. Its pelt is not living by itself or posess the conciousness of said garurumon the same way a furret pelt would not in the real world.
Edit: no breathing the wrong air partical or eating something does not count as a major external influence. It is more like Adaptation in a sense of Natural Evolution.
@@julielandherr4686 A lot of this questions are answered in the lore of later installments
It seems you only know the franchise from the early animes like adventures,02 and tamers
I will try to answer as many questions that you have wrote
Just for clarification, digimon lore is not consistent, and this is on purpose since a lot of the media takes place in different universes with different rules and logics for how digimon should work and act
1)Yes digimon are highly amorphous, they gain and lose traits all the time, and can get data from everything and anything they do, this has been a staple of the franchise since the beginning of the series, all the digimon world games that focus on the raising digimon aspect have this as a core feature, a automatic process that always happens, for example a baby digimon will always evolve into a kunemon if you make it sleep in a certain region of the forest in world 1
2)Yes, this process can also be conscious, digimon have emotions and thoughts, even a soul, so they can selectively know what to harvest and what not to evolve into what they want, the digimon world games that are rpg (the ones where you can evolve and devolve) focus on, for example, in the rearise gacha game, an angewomon evolves into lovelyangemon, because it uses data from japanese idols and divas because her tamer loved that type of person
3)Yes! Digimon can become anything and everything without limitations, all those 3 things you said have happened in the franchise, an alphamon transform most of his body into a real car, the new evolution thing happens all the time in the franchise (is like the most hype thing ever not going to lie) and digimon like zeedmilleniumon or death-X-mon are just a bunch of data and code that destroys things without using a physical body
4)There have been cases of digimon fighting for control because the process of digimon fusion/jogress usually makes 2 digimon with 2 consciousness become 1, for example in tamers a character uses a cyberdramon, a digimon fuse from the result of a dracomon and a zeedmilleniumon, they are both fighting for control most of the series and that usually result in aggressive outburst and killing sprees, and yes they can read each other minds
5)Mostly depends on what more data it has consumed, if he consumed more fridge data than dinosaur then he will turn into a fridge, if not then viceversa, or evolve into a middle point of both, take the digimon dorumon for example if he feeds on mostly natural data he can turn into a dorugamon, if he consumes more X digimon data he turns into a raptordramon and if he consumes mostly corrupted data he turns into a dexdorugamon
6)The origin of digimon is different in most timelines, the general lore is that the creator is this super computer/ai named yggdrasill that monitors them like an experiment/simulation to know how life works, there are other cases where they come from another dimention and have no clear origin, the dimension just works like that, in 1 and 0, my favorite origin is the original one, where hackers drop their programs into the internet and abandoned them and thanks to a bunch of lucky coincidences they managed to create artificial life
7)Yea digimon are a game/website in some lores, vtamer lore is that they are just the world where the vpets(toys) exist, in tamers they are canonically just a mmo that went rouge, in survive they are just yokai (japanese spirits and demons) taking form of a popular franchise of toys and game because they were discarded, any idea with digimon you have for their origin/how they work has already been explored believe me
And lastly, for that last sentence
Just enjoy childish things dude, is a franchise that fundamentally is about monsters made to be raised, it doesn't need all the convoluted plot and explanation, is nice to have but that doesn't make a franchise better, and all 90% of lore in any franchise is made on the spot, just look at dark souls,halo,sonic, hell even pokemon just writes lore as it went along, it took them to Arceus to finally retcon the existence of Raichu killing an elephant
@@BlackLion45 it's mostly that digimon lore can go all over the place depending on the game,anime or media that you consume on the franchise
The lore of for example adventure can't exist in the same universe as tamers without the canon explanation of milleniumon
The lore of ghost game can't exist at the same time that data squad
Data squad can't exist in the same timeline as digimon masters online
Masters online can't exist in the same lore as digimon linkz and so on
I think pokemon could replace the term "evolution" with metamorphosis, but digimon is on the clear as its "digievolutions" are more like the server's accelerated simulation of natural selection reaching the same optimal numbers.
Yeah, Digimon is a little wishy washy with the mechanics, but the general idea is that they're simulating rapid evolution based on an algorithm, and their programming limits it to some extent. Usually, a Digimon will be restricted into turning into something predictable. A dinosaur into another dinosaur, for example. At least in Tamers, the fact that they could change drastically was a discovery that concerned the human creators, so they made a program that would simplify their evolution to be more linear and sensible.
Or just growing. Because that’s what the Pokémon did. They grow up
Well in the japanese terms digimon evolution stages instead of being fresh-in training-rookie-champion-ultimate and mega their baby level 1 - baby level 2 - child - adult - perfect and ultimate so technically digimon evolution is growing Up aswell
I mean technically evolving doesn’t have to be from one species to the next. It could literally just mean to change yourself such as to evolve one’s appearance or beliefs.
So Pokemon isn’t wrong for calling it that it’s just not biological evolution in the way we know it.
@@obnox1ous_3fe420 not really growing up digimon idea is more like a fractal of getting more and more complex form as the material is agregated
The pokemon one does have an answer actually, but not many people know about it because it was in Japanese only material from decades ago. Around the time of Gen2 they had research notes from Oak where he talked about how his classification system was flawed, he was originally classifying different "species" only based on appearance and didn't know how to tell their gender, this is why the Nidorans are separated. He also muses that Taurus and Milktank are also the same species but with sexual dimorphism. Within this Oak then says that he can't fix his misclassifications now (very unscientific of him) because it would screw up the dex numbers. So it's very likely that full lines are intended to be different growth stages of a single species but the games just categorize them separately like Monster Hunter does.
Ah i see
Thanks for the info
The pokemon classification science is somehow very young in-universe.
It's sort of like how American english works.
Absolutely wild. It’d be nice to see a spec - evo project about the different Pokémon types and their evolutionary origins
@@Miraihi Pokemon Arceus is closely based on 1800s Hokkaido, so they have roughly 200 years of development until now if we assume that Hisui was one of the first to develop the pokeballs and release it towards the masses which would open the floodgates of possible innovation, we do know that tribes and acient people also used pokemon but they're most likely small close-knit groups that wouldn't reveal it towards outsiders.... or dead.
acceptance towards pokemon is also a factor since some Pokemon could or would cause natural disaster level destruction.
I feel like "Elder Dragon" started out in-universe as a classification for 6-limbed reptilian monsters, but over time became more associated with monsters who possess borderline supernatural abilities.
Considering how the Western Dragon body plan is less biologically realistic than the Wyverns that are more common in Monster Hunter, it makes sense that they would tend to possess additional "unnatural" qualities.
Among hunters Elder Dragon has basically become shorthand for "unusual and extremely dangerous".
I'm inclined to agree but one really irritating and weird issue with that is that Gore Magala's classification is originally considered unknown even though it clearly has six limbs and scales, and its only non-ED trait is that it can be trapped or captured (and it's hard to imagine that those are actually universal ED traits in-lore, and certainly it may be the case that all young EDs can be trapped, not just Gore). This implies that having six limbs is NOT a standard for classification of elder dragons.
Conversely, I've seen the theory that Kirin has small vestigial wings under its mane or lost its wings similar to snakes, and that EDs in general have six-limbed body plans.
EDs didn't started out as 6-limbed dragons. Gen 1 only had Kirin, Lao Shan Lung and Fatalis, Gen 2 introduced the elder trio, and Yama Tsukami. They were always meant to be a wastebasket taxon from the beginning.
@@vitriolicAmaranth
Even after monster hunter 4 Gore still classified as "????" Kind don't make sense. You already know Sagaru is Elder Dragon come from Gore.
Why not make it under develop elder dragon?
And what make "Elder Dragon" as a type is kind out of place a Tunder horse, Dragon, Giant montain blob etc. The only similarity just they can't get trap, flash, or capture.
Elder Dragon was always the Category for "Yeah, we don't know either, but it's incredibly powerful"
@@just_a_guy9688
I meant more from an in-universe/lore perspective.
Minor correction on edible vs non-edible monsters:
You *can* eat some Large monsters, but you have to give their parts (like tails) to the Canteen or your Handler, who will prep the meat and give you Well-Done Steaks.
My guess is unlike herbivore meat that can easily be processed via carving, Large Monster meat needs more processing.
Of course it takes more processing - you can’t eat a Rathian tail raw …and live.
@@17Haru17 XD exactly
Plus it would take a lot of time to butcher Large monster meat. Gotta get through the scales and hide that a hunter's weapons can only just get through.
@@17Haru17not true, I eat multiple every time I hunt a rathian.
It's probably the same with certain types of foods that require professional certification before being allowed to cook, like that one poisonous fish (puffer fish?) in Japan that can't be served by just any cook or chef.
Greetings my friends from beyond and within the grave. In the short time in which we inhabit this world, It would be my honor to offer you a new life with Christ. Let today be the day you begin✝️
that was actually a good summery of digimon they don't make sense and they won't ever make sense cause they're not "flesh and blood" animals they're computer data
it makes sense when you realize that is data about a specific idea or concept and the evolution are interpretations of those concepts
I think you missed something in MH world, the head ecologist outright calls "elder dragon" a pile that creatures can get tossed on when they don't fit elsewhere.
Yep basically "no i don't know what to classify the giant dragon that absorbs energy from the ground and compressors it into lazer beams"
Honestly my head cannon is that you could classify them however for one killing an elder dragon is a tremendous feet and only rly happens once every few years (unless you are the player character) so they don't get the chance to research them but also infomation around them seems to be suppressed by the guild as shown in the alatreon arc
"dude I'm a scientist but if this thing come to this city we are all dead. So I don't care if it's a wyvern, a horse or a friggin squid. Just kill it"
@@diveblock2058 The main issue lies in the fact that Elder Dragons CANNOT be captured the same way other Large Monsters can. Thus, research guilds can NEVER work with live specimens, further obfuscating any data you can gather from them. Additionally, some are simply so dangerous that the mere idea of them would spark panic among the masses, hence why monsters like Alatreon are closely guarded secrets. Remember, all Elder Dragons are associated with destruction and calamity. If a Tigrex happens upon a settlement, sure. There'll be chaos. But it's just a big dino-dragon thing on crack. It goes down eventually, and there's an entire group of people dedicated to doing so. Elder Dragons, on the other hand, are so destructive that every time their presence is known, the primary directive for all Hunters in the region is to take it out. Study what you can from its corpse, but you simply cannot capture them. Even the Dragon Element itself is poorly understood. Every other weapon element is derived from Monster parts that produce the element. Electrodes, Fire Sacs, poisonous spines, organs that absorb Water, etc. Dragon Element stuff is primarily just made from the Bones of Elder Dragons or other monsters. No mystery organ, no obvious tell. We just know that if you use these bones to make this weapon, it glows red and shuts off the powers of Elder Dragons.
From memories, Elder Dragons really belong together in a branch of evolution, and it is a coincidence that the researches categorise them in the same way but with different rules.
Yesss Monster Hunter supremacy
I reaaaaaly likedd this video.
Monster hunter is consistent with his clasification as you said, as a hunter, you just need to know certain things. Bird wyvern? okey, it can be trapped, they move fast, and use generally the same type of attacks. By using this classification, you can overall guess how the mosnter attack, which is really important, for example brute wyverns, ive realise usually have specialized tools, uragaan chin, deviljho mouth, brachydios arms, duramboros tail club... based on this you know, at least one body part of them is overused in their attacks. Deviants are basically overly stressed specimens that adapt rapidly due to something, in some cases failed hunts from humans, and are in lore extremely rare to encounter, apexes (MHRise) are affected by the stress of the wind serpent ibushi that moves them out of place, hardcore variants are very similar to deviants but instead they are basically older specimenss that are way better with their abilities
Monsterverse is weird, its like, because the titans dont fit into the animal kingdom easily, they cant clasify them fairly, thus they make it simple and use code names.
Pokemon its always about the evolution line, but it is weird how not even their categories fit, some pokemon have the same category been different species, and many change their category when evolve.
Digimon is hell, which i love about it. Many knoledge of their lore, helps to understand it. Digimon have always existed in theory, it was the computer ygdrassil that tapped into the dimension via internet... which in the digimon franchise, the internet is basically an interdimensional place, we didnt created, we just found it.
In the digital world, time is accelerated, an ygdrassil used this to experiment wwith evolution, in a few years, the digimon world develops for millions of years... this is why its so cluncky, the information humans send using the internet can reach the diggital world, and thats why human have shapped their live and evolution, even life styles.
In short, ddigimon works as a simulation, in which yggdrassil analyses how evolution develops, this is why when a digimon dies, it can de-evolve, and it becomes another oportunity for different outcomes. Digimon physical appereance isnt even real, its just a videogame skin, their true self is their digicore, its their genes and even memories. Lastly, many digital worlds exist at the same time and all of them, are kinda connected, digimon can evolve into new forms, modes, etc. and when this happens, ygdrassil makes sso every digimon can achieve that form if they are related iin some way, this is way they can evolve into such different things.
For example, the first metalgreymon that evolved into wargreymon, unlocked that evolution in every other universe or "server". This is the reason why, for example, many digimon can evolve into royal knights while not being them, they wont have the same power, but they can reach this evolution.
I've really just learnt Digimon lore via a TH-cam comment, thank you kind sir
You said MonsterVerse is weird bruh stupid
@@LORD-c7wJa
God the digimon part of this comment is so cool, I knew about this lore but was still kind of confused and you finally made it click in my head. My favorite part about this lore is megidramon X who in one dimension destroyed the entire digital world and because of it, it now exists everywhere else but it's origins aside from that are unknown
22:38, there was animals in the pokemon world but it was retconned, it was mostly a gen 1-2 thing where they treated pokemon like newly discovered species rather than the average fauna of the pokemon world, it basically stopped being cannon since takeshi shudo (main pokemon anime writer until gen 2) left the anime
Interesting, i thought the real animals were just supposed to be a place holder for future pokemon because there wasn't that many back then like there are now.
@@elishafollet5347 many pokemon are known as "the [animal] pokemon".
Like Pikachu is the mouse pokemon. So somewhere in the pokemon universe, someone mjst have seen a real mouse and compared it to Pikachu.
@@enricomassignani honestly never really thought about it like that but
In Monster Hunter, "Elder Dragon" is sort of a wastebin category, but is also specifically used for monsters that are so supremely powerful that the very presence of one warps the entire ecosystem in a large area.
The presence of a Valstrax or Nergigante sends most of the local ecosystem, even predators, into hiding. A Gogmazios or Fatalis appearance is a civilization-ending threat.
Many even have a degree of control over extreme weather: Amatsu creates enormous hurricanes and rainstorms, Kirin can generate massive lightning storms, Teostra and Lunastra bring extreme drought and heat waves, etc.
Digimon data evolution concept is unique in terms how they transform by absorbing data, not being restricted even by an abstract concepts. Essentially the digital world in Digimon franchise is a so-called "Noosphere" - the space where everything ever concieved exists.
Your tangent on Pokemon egg groups reminded me of the fact the Pokemon Feraligatr and Krookodile can't breed, despite being based on related animals they are not in the same egg group.
Could've sworn Feraligatr was in the Field egg group (like the majority of starters) but after a quick search its just in the Monster and Water 1 groups... Which means it can breed with Bergmite, Mareep, Chikorita, Clamperl, Pyukumuku, Corsola, Seel, and Bibarel but can't mate with another crocodilian
Meanwhile i thought both krook line and fuecoco line are at least also in the monster group.
The more i look at it, the more i realize egg groups are quite jank.
And it reminded me of a certain copy pasta...
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Nidoking and Nidoqueen being unable to breed. Unless, the Nidoqueen is young enough.
@@DissedRedEngie That one just feels like a glitch that they decided to stick to for two decades instead of fixing it, lol
Really cool to see someone try to take a more naturalistic viewpoint of Digimon considering how unnatural they are. If there ever is a follow up to this video I'd really hope to see you come back to Digimon to discuss some of the other aspects that incorporate themselves into the canon over time, such as the various Digimon subspecies, or even the story of Program X and how it mirrors an extinction event/genetic bottleneck.
Oh yea that is a good idea.
X program and x antibody would make a really good topic.
I'll keep that in mind.
@@OutofPlaceZoologistyeah but 26:17 calling that unrealistic when we have 7 different ways, different animals that endet up as some sort of crab?
@@OutofPlaceZoologistI’d say also look more into the lore especially with the whole DigiCore stuff and how Digimon die and reincarnate with their lack of sexual reproduction
@@MrDoreius honestly, given digimon are entirely *made* out of their attributes and classifications, being data and not "real", evolutionary covergence resulting in *literal* species covergence makes sense since, it's not an animal that has crab characteristics, it's "the data for crab characteristics" itself
In regards to pokemon, it seems like the "evolution" they undergo is actually a metamorphosis and rapid adaptation. There are evolved forms that simply went extinct due to the conditions they were suited for not being present anymore like some of the Hisuian forms, modern Stantler cannot evolve into Wyrdeer even if they meet the evolution pre-requisites since they lost that ability. It's worth noting that it's also implied in many cases that unevolved forms of certain pokemon can live out their entire lives in that form if they never have the need to evolve - they're kind of like axolotls in that they can be neotenous their entire lives.
There is also "normal" evolution in pokemon, with pokemon changing their type and evolutionary pathways depending on the region they live in, and there being prehistoric pokemon that are ancestors to modern forms.
The problem with the Monsterverse is that while it has many writers that are talented , they are also somehow lazy on detail and worldbuilding,also has many interventions from the studio so it can't even star to be consistent .
If you want world building, then read the comic, or watch the tv show, which is connected with the movie. Godzilla genre in general doesn’t have world building anyway.
Also toho wont let them make godzilla (and probably the other toho monsters) into actual animals and not just monsters. While they could classify their originals and kong properly it could be that they dont want them to stand out from the others.
Digimon "family" is also called "field" and, based on the nature report style descriptions for the Pendulum Z, is supposed to refer to their habitat; so the same Digimon can be in more than one because they live in more than one place.
If I recall correctly, the flavor text for kirin explains that while at first glance they look like herbivores, their bodies being covered in scales and their having feet with claws is what makes them an elder dragon.
The thing about Digimon moving from one classification to another is because they are very volatile. The way they "feed on their prey" is not by eating in the regular sense, but by literally absorbing the prey data into their own. So if a bird absorb too much fish data, it will evolve into an aquatic species. Think of it as completely rewriting their DNA on the fly.
one great way to see digimon evolution is like a linguistic evolution every digimon is basically digital representation of a concept the more information are aggregated to that concept end up changing its meaning and evolve into a new concept
Great video! As someone who share with you the interest in all 4 of those franchises and in zoology I really appreciated it.
For Pokemon, in the newest games they removed the requirement to use incenses to get baby pokemon. So breeding two Sudowoodo will always make a Bonsly, not a Sudowoodo anymore.
"The Goddamn lightning horse"
I felt that
Also on Gore Magala, in some recent book it is said that gore magala is born from the corpses of monsters that died infected with the frenzied virus, wich is probably why traps work on him
A resposta para Gore Magala cair em armadilhas e ainda ser um dragão ancião é que além de ser um "bebê" ele não seus olhos totalmente desenvolvidos por isso pode cair em armadilhas. Sobre o Xeno J'iiva não cair em armadilhas e também ser um "bebê" é o seu tamanho gigante.
because frenzied virus is like parasite
So the Gores are actualy more like a virus than a Monster?
Some monsters have sub-classifications. For instance, nargacuga, tigrex, and barioth are all flying wvyerns, but are in a sub-grouping called pseudo wyverns due to thier wings being used for ground locomotion where as true flying wyverns like rathalos, astalos, and paolumu use thier wings solely for flying.
Pseudo flying wyvern is a fanon term. Please be mindful that Monster Hunter community is choke full of outright lies such as "Fatalis regenerating from the sword." or "Deviljho will eat its own tail."
@@EarthWingedDragonno. Let the cooler term triumph
@@EarthWingedDragon tbh the Jho tail thing started by Capcom themselves when they advertised Jho back in gen 3, then it snowballed from there. Also despite the gameplay not showing it, it's not something out of the realm of possibility in-universe.
@@raydhen8840 Deviljho tail thing is a mass hallucination. I am sure the rumour exists before that video. The fact that small monster isn't synched to all player in old gen might be the true reason why this misinformation started.
"You can't milk a bull"
Well... You techhhhhnically can.....?
Not for the same porpouse xd
You can, just ask your mom
😀
Yeah those aren't farmers tho, those are called sick fucks
Canonically you only do each hunt once, so there's indeed a single one of every deviant, even across their entire quest lines
Wait, really? Is this confirmed anywhere? That would make a lot of sense then.
Does this only applies to deviant or does it applies to rise / sunbreak apexes too?
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Applies to everything, i just don't know where it's confirmed. But the lore of Deviants/Two Named Monsters states that they are unique among their species. Also it wouldn't make sense to hunt multiple Dire Miralises, Zorah Magdaroses, Xeno'Jiivas and Safi'Jiivas, etc. Safi is also not the same individual as the Xeno we defeat in base game World.
Monster Hunter Frontier even has a category of monsters called "extreme individuals", which are, as the title implies, individuals, but you still can hunt them an unlimited amount of times each
Why wouldn't it make sense to hunt multiple of those monsters you specified? Aren't there skulls of zorah magdaros in the map? (forgot where it is, guiding land i think?)
And for me personally, the safi we hunted being a different individual just implies that there are indeed multiple of those, so why wouldn't it make sense?
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Because each encounter with those specific species of monsters happens under extremely specific circumstances that simply would't happen multiple times consecutively. World's Xeno'Jiiva is born in the Everstream as soon as we step into his nest. You take the quest again, go to the same location, find the same previously unknown species in the exact same stage of development, hunt it again, repeat. When they wanted to make an actual second Jiiva in a more advanced growth stage (Safi), they set up a whole different arena for it, and made a different egg leftover that you can see from the accessible zone, to communicate that it's indeed a different individual born right there, far away from where the first Xeno was brought forth. Repelling Zorah Magdaros demanded a huge taskforce, and the entire game up to that point revolved around setting up that one time big event. The Commander says that's the only chance they have of repelling Zorah Magdaros, and that if they fail it will all be lost. You succeed. Then you go on the hunt again, and boom, another Zorah Magdaros spawns at the exact same place under the exact same circumstances and with the same NPC dialogues emphasizing that such an event is unique, unprecedented, an one time thing. The Zorah skull in the Frost Islands has a different size and anatomy compared to that of the one we fight in World, so it's probably a weaker relative. Also, the battle against it is fully documented in the secret texts scattered across the map.
@@athos9293 Ah ok, i get your logic. Thanks for taking the time to explain
I'm a biology nerd and I love Monster Hunter for that reason. I only got into it a few years ago because I'm bad at video games and I was so intimidated, but I wish I'd known how worth it it would be to delve into. Also I think the Elder Dragon classification is very useful even if artificial. It signifies just how powerful and dangerous a species is, even if a lot of them aren't actually dragons. Perhaps a natural classification of just "Dragon" would apply to the Elder Dragons which are dragons, like Fatalis, Kushala Daora, Shagaru Magala, and Malzeno. Perhaps the wider family would include the likes of Amatsu, Narwa/Ibushi, and Gaismagorm.
In the main dragon family itself, Fatalis (and its variants), Dire Miralis, Alatreon, and Disufiroa could be their own subgroup. Though it's possible that Alatreon and Disufiroa are completely unrelated to Fatalis and Dire Miralis.
Dire Miralis actually sounds like a binomial name lmao. Actually this makes me want to come up with binomial names for monsters... (and this led to a few hours of research and I had this whole giant thing typed up and then I realized I was being infodumpy, sorry about that)
Glad that you enjoy the franchise. I'm sure some people enjoy reading others' excitement about the franchise they also love, so no need to apologize really. As long as it's harmless, enjoy doing what you like to do and have fun
1:35 MMMOOONNNSSSTTTEEERRR HHHUUUNNNTTTEEERRR WWWIIILLLDDDSSS!!! !!! !!! WOO! YOU HYPED BRO! IM HYPED! I AM SO HYPED!
Would be cool a video classifying the monsters of the Monsterverse
To be honest, i like the idea of doing so if we got more detail.
Unfortunately, i'm so catered to academic practice that my brain wouldn't let me do so without enough evidence.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Well, there's a few details You forgot to mention when talking about the monsterverse.
- Superspecies are lifeforms that are endemic and adapted to hollow earth ecosystems and require radiation to subsist. Titans are Superspecies that can cause environmental disruptions because of their natures. It doesn't have to do with size.
- The Titans and superespecies DO have scientific names and belong to discovered taxonomic groups, and I don't only mean in Skull Island. For example: Godzilla is an Archosaur, and it's scientific name is Deinocanthus serizawii, And Ghidorah's scientific name is Mandandare Aquenomba.
- Since Even by kotm (when the dumb "titanus" classification was invented) Monarch put a proper scientific name to Ghidorah, it's heavily implied that the "Titanus (codename)" only refers to the individual rather than the species (maybe because they're the last of their kind) and we just don't know the other titans scientific name. That or the actual scientific names got retconned with the Titanus thingy.
- The Titans also have an artificial classification based on behaviour, Those who are passive and mean no intentional harm are labeled as "protectors", and the territorial ones are "destroyers"
There's still a Lot of gaps to fill, but hopefully this is enough info for you to try and do an speculative video. Good video!
I'm super happy to see someone else gets that digimon don't follow the conventional evolution route due to their uniquely digital origins! But I do feel like you could have gone into a smidge more detail on the attributes. I'm not sure if you're fully aware, but attributes serve both the purpose of being a rock-paper-scissors type match up like with pokemon types, while also giving additional context to how the digimon behaves, almost like an alignment system, though it has nothing to do with morality.
If we're treating it like data rather than animals, the way we probably should, attributes are like this:
Virus is self explanatory. They corrupt existing data. Some can also interpret this as a creature that simply alters its environment to suit its needs.
Data are like the default, pre-installed files when you boot up a new OS. You can also interpret this as being a creature that's already adapted to their environment. They're like native species, as opposed to the other two, which can be considered invasive.
Vaccine are like antivirus protection. They restore corrupt data to its original state. They repair and heal their environment from damage caused by virus digimon.
Variable is for a digimon whose attribute can change. They're like a swiss army knife, they can do a little bit of everything.
Free is a grey area. They are sort of like the wastebin taxon. They're the files labeled as "misc", y'know?
Virus beats Data, because it corrupts.
Data beats Vaccine, because ultimately the antivirus bows to the OS. Vaccine doesn't alter the Data, just fixes it when it's broken.
Vaccine beats Virus, because of course it does.
Variable is like a weird tiebreaker for all 3 base attributes, and doubles up as a classification for hybrid digimon. If you mix a vaccine type with a virus type, you'd have a variable digimon, which can fulfill either niche as it pleases.
Free is pretty rare and is basically considered outside the binary in this case.
Honestly a big part of what has always kept me engaged with Monster Hunter is the attention to detail. Particularly as the series has progressed, and they've put more effort into each individual model and environment, the various monsters, endemic life, and the world in general tends to feel more "alive" than the vast majority of games and series. Sure, it's a fantastical world that has things that couldn't feasibly exist in our world, but you can see how things fit together within its own ecosystem.
If you see a random monster or creature in a MH game, you can usually tell that either it's meant to be there or it's an invasive species entering the area in the search for prey. Meanwhile half the time in games set in real world based locations, like Far Cry, the arbitrary placements of animals or the lack of animals often makes it feel more artificial even if it arguably should make sense. They're often simply standing around waiting to be found, with no presence within the environment aside from things like fish being in the water or birds flying in the sky.
I think in the series "monarch legacy of monsters" they explain that "titanus" refers to a creature that has the ability to cause massive environmental disruptions while smaller kaiju are just labelled as "superspecies" I think
doesn't help that they use species all the time to refer to them and use those terms
Also, no mention to Regional Forms, a better example of REAL evolution in Pokémon.
According to their habitat some species had to change to adapt. They aren't considered different species, unless they branch into a new species.
Like Johtovian Sneasel evolve into Weavile, so being their older version. And Hisuian Sneasel evolve into Sneasler.
Essentially they're all the same species just change their features to adapt to their environment.
Like Sneaslers did hunt alone but weren't successful, other Sneasel prefered to evolve into Weavile who did hunt in packs, increasing their success rates.
Didn't talk about that because this video is about species concept and classification.
It'll be way out of topic then if i do.
Regarding Akantor, you can also see that one of its claws is facing backwards at an odd angle, bringing to mind the single limb that is used to support the wings of the Flying Wyverns like with the Tigrex, suggesting that it is vestigial.
Digimon evolution is very interesting in that it merges the idea of life stages and real-world evolution in a way that only makes sense in its own world-building. Going from Rookie stage to Champion stage is an aging process. Any Digimon that survives long enough and gains enough life experience will reach its next stage, but it is what factors into that time and effort that determines what they will become.
In Digimon Adventure, this is why Gatomon stays in her Champion stage. She aged up to it naturally, while the other Digimon use the Digivice's connection to their partners to skip to higher stages. These evolutions never last and they cost a lot of energy that must be replenished with food and rest.
first vid I've seen on your channel! stuff like the ecosystem of monster hunter worlds intrigues me so much! will be sharing this with friends!
It makes sense that monster hunter gets by far the largest section. The devs have spent a lot of time thinking about the zoological nature of their creatures, their environments, and how they could make sense with real life creatures.
Despite using the term, Pokémon evolution is more like life stages or metamorphosis than evolution as it's understood scientifically in the real world.
About the Monster Hunter bit.
Deviants/Variants are actually rare, it appears over and over again because of gameplay reasons.
Also I don't see people talk about it much, Gore Magala actually doesn't contain "Elder Dragon Blood", a kind of blood that every Elder Dragon has.
As a bit of a deeper examination of digimon, as stated they are digital creatures, they have a sort of "soul" (core) which takes on data to form a body. in the wild, their transformations are based on the data they recieve from either their enviornment or outside influences, which is why they vary so much. but this changes a bit when they have a tamer where their forms now rely on their bond with that trainer which is why theyll generally stick to one line with them, but have seen instances of them getting corrupt forms when their tamers are in distress
I think Pokémon has some kind of optional metamorphosis. Because stage 1 Pokémon could grow to be old and reproduce as still stage 1 Pokémon, they don’t need to evolve for that (at least not some of them? Maybe those with like baby stages do need to evolve to reproduce it’d be weird if they didnt)
It’s like paetomorphism
Game theory did do a video on Pokémon evolution that might be interesting
For the Pokemon stuff as someone else said, think of it more as metamorphosis than evolution as even some of the evolution requirements are not really evolving but just enhancing their previous body.
Think of pokemon like Onix or Scizor, what's really happening is they are just putting on the item Metal Coat like a coat, it's just covering their body and in the process they chance to fit that coat. Onix gets... bigger? and Scyther's blades turn into pincers. A lot of item trade evolutions are like this, Electabuzz plugs itself in to get more electricity so it gets bigger, same with Magmar with fire or Rhydon putting the Protector on it's body to become Rhyperior.
The only Pokemon that specifically talks about it's genetic makeup when evolving, as far as I know, is Eevee and how different elements react with it's cells to force it to evolve into something else entirely, ranging from basic elements, too much sunlight/moonlight and... love from it's trainer? Sylveon is the only weird one really lol
Egg groups are a mess mainly due to breeding being a mechanic from gen 2 and Gamefreak never changing egg groups of older pokemon while also adding new ones over time, so some pokemon that are should clearly be related like Feraligatr and Krookidile cannot breed due to this while Feraligatr and breed with Turtonator (a fire turtle dragon). Silly stuff.
I love this. Also about gammoth and its relation to popo, yeah. Gammoth is a herbivore technically (so is diablos actually) but because they’re “large monsters” they have to be put in a different group. I think Oceaniz is doing videos on taxonomy and phylogenetic trees for all of the monsters.
I also have no idea about the underleveled Salamance, but I remember another case of this is wild encounter Gengar (which interestingly also comes in the same mechanic as Salamance, being S.O.S. call). Gengar and Slowking are both trade evolutions with Slowking having an additional requirement of holding King's Rock. There's a theory that while not impossible, trade evolution mons can evolve in the wild through experience. I think it goes the other way, the limitations come from being domesticated. Through care and comfort, the pokemon's potential is dulled when under care of a single trainer. Being traded (and thus leaving the comfort of their original trainer) triggers a survival instinct that allow certain species to reach their true potential. Of course this theory falls apart when we consider not every trainer provides care and comfort for their mons, and trading mons away are not inherently malicious. It's fun to theorize though
Thanks for make justice about digimon evo system. I wish more people engage digimon universe as it deserves love and recognition❤
These real world applications to see what franchises follow biology are some of my favorite!
A little thing they added to the newer Pokemon games is regional forms and convergent evolution Pokemon. For example, they made versions of Vulpix and Ninetails that evolved to be ice types due to living in a certain environment. As for the convergent evolutions, they made Pokemon called Wugtrio and Toedscruel, that look like Dugtrio and Tentacruel, but aren't actually related to them at all; they just fill the same ecological niches as them in a different region in the world (kinda like carcinisation but also not lol)
Waaaaaayyyyyy back in the first season, we saw Ash's Charmeleon force itself to evolve to become stronger to fight Blaine's Magmar, so we know it's possible for Pokemon evolve before they're leveled up enough. Conversely, we've also seen the opposite with Ash's Bulbasaur, who resists its evolution triggers.
Why am I only now seeing this channel? This is some quality biology content right here
28:30 "ancient aquatic beast man type"
Damn, and I thought e621 tags were hyper specific XD
MLP futa
@@Oinker-Sploinker That's not a single tag though. And not really specific either.
That's just Digi-jank. There's been so many different localizations by so many different people with so many different visions and ideas that the franchise can come off as disoriented and hyper-specific at the same time. The stage called "Super-Ultimate" was changed to "Ultra" a few years back, and the Digimon named "Lilithmon" bounces back and forth between being called Lilithmon and Laylamon, the same way Omni Shoutmon is called Omega Shoutmon from time to time.
@@mariofan1ish I see. Still funny though.
@@mariofan1ish English localization really likes to avert biblical terms in their names, which is kinda silly when the digimon in question is based on literal biblical demon or angel.
Elder Dragons can probably be given natural classifications, but the term Elder Dragon, while a wastebin taxon, actually has specific criteria in order to be given which are more informative to the hunters and researchers, and that's likely why Gore Magala hasn't been given it yet. If i'm not mistaken, they need to have a substantial impact on the local ecosystem (no matter where they go). Like a permanently invasive species. Gore Magala isn't quite the same because while it does carry the Frenzy virus, it isn't the one technically responsible for the disruption of the ecosystem. So it's likely only ??? because of a technicality. But it's also too disruptive to be given any other classification, as it doesn't fit naturally into any ecosystem. Otherwise it would likely end up, in my opinion, as a fanged wyvern. This is all being pulled from memory and conjecture so I could be wrong.
outro critério para a classificação "dragão ancião" é que os dragões anciões compartilham de um sangue, tem até o item desse sangue nos jogos "sangue de dragão ancião" por isso que um Akantor mesmo causando um desequilíbrio ecológico não é um dragão ancião, por esse e outros motivos claro.
I'm not a Monster Hunter Lore expert, but the common trait of all the various Elder Dragons is not only that they can't be classified, but also the attribute of their body parts, their bones and blood. For the same reason Gore Magala is not an Elder Dragon because traps work on it, it's also not cause it's bones and blood don't have the same mysterious attributes as those of Elder Dragons. Also, it's another head-cannon of mine, but I take sub-species like half-way point of divergence from a species to another, like if Yian Garuga and Yian Kutku had a common ancestor that had evolved two distinct subspecies at some point.
I believe it is mentioned that godzilla's scientific name is Deinocanthus Serizawii
Great video! I just wanna give a lil justification to Kirin being classified as an Elder Dragon. It's more of a cultural/myth thing in East Asian countries. Essentially, a Kirin/Qilin is an eastern dragon with the body of a horse (although there are some that have deer-like or similar bodies). This is why you can see some depictions of Kirin have scales on them; they're an eastern dragon. Since Capcom is a japanese company, it kinda makes sense that they'd put Kirin as an Elder Dragon
Fun fact!: There's a japanese brand of beer called "Kirin" and you can see a more faithful depiction of a Kirin as their logo
The Monsterverse would've been a *true* marvel if it stuck to the grounded/naturalistic feel, remember when Goji reacted to the military shooting at him, especially at his vulnerable gills, and the building that fell on him? (not to mention that the male MUTO got killed via tail-slammed and impaled on rebar) Good times...
The early movie was a true marvel, meanwhile the recent one truly feels like a marvel movie
(Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation to make that foolish pun)
He reacts to the military in every movie my guy. Did you not see how he freaked out on the drones they were bombing him with in the new movie? He was so pissed off he exploded
@@GoGoBean34 Eh still tho, in the new movie and the previous one he bloody *sprinted* jumped even, and that wasn't when he was in the Hollow Earth, which should've been the only scene to pull off such moves cuz of the whole differing gravity.
@@jennyfeare1702 why though? It's awesome when he leaps into action, sure it's a little silly but that's part of the fun of the movies. If you want something more grounded and slower paced we still have minus one and shin movies to fall back on
@@GoGoBean34 B R U H.... did... did you *not* read the op comment, of the feel the 2014 film had?
One of the things to keep in mind for Digimon evolutions is that one of the things that affects their ability to evolve is psychology and emotion, in a way that is a lot more universal than the handful of Pokemon where that's a mechanic. In that context, it makes a lot more sense that their evolutionary trees are all weird and full of dramatic changes, especially with how often they're bonded with kids and teenagers, whose emotions and personality profiles are still actively developing.
On top of the gills, another weird detail about Mosterverse Godzilla is its skeleton, in the credits of the 2014 movie, a godzilla skeleton is show, and the skull has a synapsid condition, only one temporal fenestra on the side. It also has a separation between a ribcage and lumbar vertebrae, another trait found in mammals and their close cynodont relatives. Despite the scene being made in a way that implies it to be a giant Mesozoic reptile, it's a mammal it seems. Maybe a giant radioactive firebreathing pangolin, those have scales and bipedalism too.
Kid me immediately thought that godzilla is a pangolin even though people keep saying its a lizard. Thanks for bringing this up and justifying kid me lmao. Though kid me also Wanted godzilla to be an armadillo and curl up into a ball, maybe roll around in that state
Correct me if I’m wrong, but they could just be analogous structures, no?
That can explain the bear-shaped face
While not monsterverse related. Godzilla: Singularity Point(Anime) shows him going through his three stages and also explains why it has gills. It's rather slow paced but the payoff was worth it imo. That first Atomic breath scene was so well done(visuals, music, etc.)
For Monster Hunter; Black Diablos is weird, because subspecies monsters in the original Japanese are just called " Subspecies". So, fixing the issue with Black Diablos being a variant and not a subspecies would mean renaming the monster. This is also why the Rare Species group exists. Without it, Azure and Silver Rathalos would both be called "Rathalos Subspecies".
For Akantor and Ukanlos being flying wyverns; they really seem to fit the fanged wyvern category, being wingless quadrupeds. They just predate that category, that is all. The lore about them having lose their wings is more a coping mechanism to justify the category, rather than reclassifying it. From memory, the only things that ever got reclassified are small monsters, like the Bullfango from herbivore to fanged beast, or gajau from piscine wyvern to fish. I imagine the same would happen with Laviente, a giant snake that predates the snake wyvern classification.
For Pokemon, Baby Pokemon is actually a slightly different term. It refers to those that cannot breed, but their evolutions can. For example, pichu. It is freely available via breeding without an insence. The insences just exist because Game Freak seems to be allergic to some kinda of retconning. They don't want to add new evolutions or prevolutions that you would mechanically be able to collect in older games. So, the insences exist because that means there is a reason you couldn't get those Pokemon before. Piloswine evolves while knowing ancient power because it couldn't learn that move in the games its evolution didn't exist in. This also gives the funny implication that in the first generation, our Pokemon never had a sense of friendship with us.
It's also worth noting that some evolutions really have a difference in their mechanical and lore-wise depiction. A single magnetite evolves into a single magneton in the games. In the lore however, it is noted as 3 magnemites coming together and sticking to one another.
You can actually still see the remnants of Akantors wing membrane on its forelimbs, it is small and very spike like but still present and notably comparable to Tigrex so its classification makes sense. Also Elder Dragon was not a classification in the first game, Lao and Fatalis were just considered Wyverns and Kirin a “Beast”.
Personally, I’ve got beef with Pokémon egg groups. This led me to reclassify half of all the Pokémon into renamed and subdivided egg groups; the highlights are rodents going into the “Mouse” group, ungulates going into the “Hoofed” group, and ghosts and invertebrates being separated from Amorphous into “Spectre.” No longer shall Gardevoir breed with Gastrodon, nor Wailord with Skitty. It was a really fun exercise, if you’re reading this and are interested, I can post the Google doc link.
Wow, i just started watching your videos for the zoology content, i wasnt expecting to see zetton suddenly staring back at me! Related to monsterverse, there's an entire ecosystem in hollow earth yet to be explored. Lots of interesting animals down there, i think. Might give clues as to the origins of some of the larger monsters
a little detaill about the deviants of mh its that in the "lore" of the games, each quest can be completed only 1 time, you can go and kill the monster 1000 times but in your own lore the monster was killed only 1 time, because of this we can say that the deviants are less common that you said in the video
Digimon evolution fascinates me bc of the concept of a DNA equivalent - their data - being freely changeable within an individual to an extent unseen in real animals. It's really like if the rules for evolution itself followed different scientific laws and I love that.
Man, Kirin was a trip the first time I fought it. I got into world after Icerborne was released, and the Kirin quest in the base game is optional, so I didn't fight one until into the dlc, so I had seen the behavior where certain traps don't work properly on certain monsters. What I mean by that, is that some non-Elder Dragons don't get affected by certain traps i.e. rajang and furious rajang will break pitfall traps sometimes, and a shock trap will charge furious rajang into his higher level state, as well as doing the same thing to zinogre. SOOOOOOO, I fought Kirin for the first time after seeing these funny little guys being nuisances with my traps, and when I finally got Kirin to sleep, not knowing what it was yet, I tried to trap the unicorn. The shock trap did nothing, so I thought that maybe it was because it was a lightning monster, and a lightning trap, you know, like zinogre. Then I tried a pitfall trap, which also didn't work.
It's not a dragon, it's a unicorn, why can't I trap the unicorn and keep it as a pet (only kind of a joke). I did figure out after a minute or two that it was considered an "elder dragon", in that it is completely unaffected by man-made traps, but those few minutes were an interesting experience where I went through a lot of the same realizations as you talked about here, albeit, without knowing the proper terms on what to call things. It's always something I've found interesting in the games, and the whole reason I watched this video.
Also, TECHNICALLY, Nergigante is not an elder dragon, it is some form of other asexually reproducing abberant species that hunts elder dragons for their bio-energy stuff to regenerate and reproduce. But PRACTICALLY, because you can't use traps on it, it is also considered an elder dragon. Schrodinger's Elder Dragon if you will (I know that's not exactly true, but still). All the little things like that in the games make it feel more alive and interesting while you're playing, and they make me appreciate the games even more.
As a fellow zoologist, I loved this. Congrats, mate! you made a fantastic video!
Even though I got to play all of those franchises when I was younger, I never saw them this way, it was so fun and fascinating.
for monster hunter, also absolute rules apply to elder dragons like you cant trap them. if you cant trap something and its ??? -> elder dragon until mechanic changed or explained by special traits like "monkey dont fall into pittrap" (just as an exmaple for a currently non existent monster). there are quite a few mentions of something special about monsters. also for subspecies there are a few other interesting ones. Diablos with black diablo + the monoblos or the yian kutku with the yian garuga which seems more like a mutation than just a sub species :D found the video randomly and has me thinking. very good video o7
This is really cool, good job! I would love to see you expand this to even more fictional universes. I would recommend the How to Train Your Dragon Franchise. It really well applys the artificial classification of the dragons by class, but doesnt really explore the natural classification, however despite that, there are some very clear phylogenetic links between many of the species, and I think it would be really cool to explore
On Monsterverse classifications: it would have been better to swap the "genus" and "species" names. So "Gojira Titanus". Thus establishing each monster as belonging to a different genus. Of course, it still says nothing of the rest of the species/genus.
Personally, I would label them Gojira gojira titanus, or G. gojira titanus. Leaving open the idea and possibility that there are non-titanic gojira out there.
Yep that definitely works
I assume they gave that up because realistically this naming convention denotes a specific shared class and maybe niche of organism not a taxonomical family.
Godzilla is a reptile and heavily hinted to be an archosaur, Kong is a mammal and a primate, Scylla is likely a crustacean or cephalopod, and Mothra is an insect or at least a type of arthropod.
But they are all a sort of super megafauna that evolved to feed on radiation convergently.
The creatures in the monsterverse actually do have scientific names, with literally every creature native to skull island having a scientific name, some creatures in the Hollow Earth having names, as well as, very surprisingly Monster Zero, aka King Ghidorah, having a scientific name: Mandandare Aqenomba, although you could say that is due to him being extra terrestrial in origin.
Where did you find that data?
Just adding a comment on the MH series: It tends to be relatively consistent partially because the classification is tied to the skeleton the developers use to animate the monster. Having common skeletons help creating new monsters faster as they can reuse the skeleton. As a consequence, monsters from a same group (except elder dragons) will share similar biological structure. Here is the explanation for Ukanlos and Akantor: They aren't flying and aren't looking like other flying wyverns at first, but both of them are using the flying wyvern skeleton as base.
Of course, there are exceptions. Kulve Taroth for example is an elder dragon, but uses the same skeleton as Great Jagras, which is a fanged wyvern.
as for the pokemon that evolve in the wild at lower levels, i personally think of the stated ways a pokemon evolve in game as what is needed for them when in captivity, similar to how many wild animals have different life expectancies when in a zoo vs the wild. Perhaps a wild pokemon living under harsher conditions would need to evolve at a lower level in order to survive, sometimes under certain conditions you can find pokemon like espeon that evolve via friendship in the wild, which shouldnt happen since they would need a trainer for those friendship levels. So I like to think the friendship level requirement for some pokemon is needing them to trust their trainer to properly evolve under captive conditions, similar to how some irl animals like cheetahs can become stressed in captivity and wont reproduce unless they’re comfortable in their environment
Thank you for actually understanding Digimon's evolution system. Subbed.
If this video never made, I don’t think I’ll ever know and understand Artificial classification and natural classification.
It is fun!
another interesting fact about Digimon is that their evolution line is more about psychological growth, which is why different creatures may evolve in to the same one, you can see it also in the way they act and talk. in canon the evolution also depends on the kind of data the digimon was able to find across the web and the experiences they had. Digimon lore is kind of weird about how it works exactly but the gist of it should be that, whenever a digimon undergo a slight change in its body the system registered it as an alternate form (agumon > black agumon; botamon > nyokimon) while if its a big one it registers it as a new evolution. examples: the first metal greymon was a greymon that partially mechanised its body, the moment this happened the system recognized and registered it as a new evolution, which allowed the other greymons to digievolve in to metal greymon without having to undergo the same treatment.
Black variants of Digimon actually occur following the ingestion of a substance called Black Digitron. It causes the Digimon to become much more aggressive, and heightens their core physical attributes, two factors that a majority of Digimon media seems to overlook when utilizing them in their stories. Knowing what we know now about how they come about, WarGreymon and BlackWarGreymon should not have been so evenly matched as they were.
There is no competition with Monster Hunter, the game's design is unbeatable, the creatures are iconic, elegant, beautiful and their look communicates something important about the monster. I've never seen any game bring together so many wonderful and functional designs, and I'll never see in another game, any RPG dreams of having a cast of monsters like that. I mean, what ideas would be better than a Ceratopside Wyvern, panther-owl-wyvern, armored dinosaur with a smoking blade in its tail, literal super Saiyan monkey, and a dragon with propeller jets in its wings? very fine.
Another game series with an interesting ecosystem to discuss would be lost planet. Lost planet was such a good franchise and in my opinion underrated definitely recommend checking it out for anyone that likes monster hunter especially it’s not really like monster hunter, but it has giant monsters, you more or less hunt and with Mechs.
In my own Gojiverse project I named Godzilla Xinophotitanus imperator
Translation?
Google it? Doing your OWN research time to time is a GOOD thing, friend. @koopapoopypanya9485
@@koopapoopypanya9485
Xino: Blue
Pho: Light
Titanus: Of great size, to call giant or large.
Imperator: Emperor
So giant emperor of blue light, or giant blue light emperor, something along those lines.
@@gojitsar7505
“Emperor Titan of Blue Light”
Sick!
Someone cooked here
28:00 They call it "families" because of a translation error.
They are actually called "fields". Because they refer to a real geographical location within the digital world. (google translate)
Finally someone who gets Digimon evolution! Because they're _digital,_ of course they don't develop based on our rules of biology. It's all about assimilating data and even then they tend to evolve along family or elemental lines; like, a fire lizard is likely to evolve into a dinosaur or a dragon or a fire elemental
Imo the explanation for fighting deviants multiple times is simply that only the first fight is canon.
Much in the same way that only the first time you fight Fatalis in World is. You’re not fighting multiple Fatalis’.
I can tell you really love all the franchises in this video, i think it's a very good place for discussion.
Honestly more on digivolution is that there is a myriad of types (Digivolution, sustained digivolution, dark digivolution, armor, dna, bio merg, there are just so many types), like for example we see sustained digivolution in episode one when the in training digimon move up to their rookie stages and stay there for and indefinite period of time unless they are knocked down to in training do to loosing code from significant damage. Normal digivolution on the other hand is temporary and converts human emotion into code to push the digimon into a higher stage, a drawback of the system being that the digimon can't do it while hungry, and iirc we do see one de-evolution based on food when they go back to in training because food is scarce. Though this raises a interesting evolutionary issue, gatomon, the only other sustained digivolution we see in adventures 1, has a digipedia entry stating that it's signature gloves are "Made of data stolen from a saberleomon" meaning for gatomon to sustained digivolve she had to somehow aquire that code on her own as a salamon, her rookie stage. And in certain digital worlds sustained digivolution doesn't mean a digimon can't go down a stage and then evolve into another assuming the meet the criteria if their iteration of earth and the digital world allow it.
Also something neat name wise about digimon is their names can put them into families, like greymon, anytime grey appears in a dragons name, except dorugreymon because that was miss localized, it means that digimon is tracebly related to tge ancient greymon. Or dorumon being a shortened name that fully reads "Digital-or-unknown-monster" which every digimon in its canon line except alphamon share... Also dex digivolution is basically dorumon dying until it becomes a digital nidhogg hellbent of felling yggdrasil known as dexmon, "Death-X-Evolution-monster" and every stage of that downward digicoreless spiral gets both the dex and doru suffixes until the inevitable mega that wishes to destroy the very entity that birthed it's world and it and created the conditions for it to exist because the dumb super computer wanted to preserve it's own life... If I had a nickel for Everytime that dumb tree nearly merced itself, I'd probably be rich.
Anyways if you read all this, congratulations, welcome to the downward spiral that is digimon lore. Have fun researching the x-virus, bantos, the sovereign, the 7 demon lords, the 13 royal knights, and every digital world in this vast chaotic multiverse where we have two butterflymon and two bearmon, where there is only two of them because linguistic quirks because kuma in kumamon means bear and hudie in hudiemon means butterfly, btw kumamon and bearmon swapped there names during localization... Welcome to the agony that is bandai.
Kinda funny that almost all the groups you mentioned in your third paragraph are actually the thing that made me love the digimon franchise since i was young as my top 5 favorite digimons are examon, lucemon SM, azulongmon, dex dorugoramon, and gigaseadramon (unrelated but saying top 4 feels kinda weird)
25:00 DIGIMON WORLD DUSK/DAWN MENTIONED WOOOOOOO
very interesting dive into the monster hunter break down especially. awesome work. (still watching for the other games lol)
Digimon evolution can be tricky as there are several factors involved.
There's natural Digivolution where the Digimon will reach their next stage through simple aging as well as the data of the environment and psychological state, they'll remain at that stage (Adventures Kuwagamon, the dark masters and so on).
There's psychological Digivolution where the emotional state of the digimon (natural or tamed) will determine their next stage regardless of the environmental data, Lopmon is a good example of this.
There's bond Digivolution for the tamed digimon, their Digivolution lines can change depending on their own psychological state and their tamers along with the bond between them. They'll have a natural bond line, divergent bond line and dark/corrupted bond line. Tai forcing Greymon to Digivolve causes a dark Digivolution to Skullgreymon, later he went to his natural bond line of Metalgreymon. Takato filled with grief and rage caused Guilmon to dark Digivolve to Megidramon, when Takato and Guilmon calmed down they went back to their natural line of Gallantmon(Dukemon).
Adventure 02 is an example of Divergent lines. Veemon to Ex-veemon (natural), Veemon Armour Digivolution (Divergent). I would class Jogress Digivolution in this catalogue too.
There's probably a lot more about Digivolution and I may also be wrong about some information I've wrote but this is my understanding of Digivolution.
fellow digimon lovers, cant do much beside giving you a subs and like, wishing you the best for this channel growth
This was awesome. I loved your breakdown of Monster Hunter. I’ve always loved their detailed taxonomy.
Holy shit. Imagine if you were to hunt a Zinogre but there was a chance for it to be a Deviant Zinogre. That would make the game even more fun and enjoyable. It shouldn't be a super low chance because, obviously, you need his parts for equipments, but it would still be so much more interesting.
SUPER NICE
I would recommend the Unnatrual History Channel for more scientific view of Monster Hunter.
I'm also a fan for all 4 different series too!
Elder Dragon is a fine classification. It's used to categorize things that aren't natural, like monster is in our world (but for branding reasons monster applies to natural and unnatural creatures in Monster Hunter). If we took it to the extreme that I'd want to then they would belong to an entirely different Tree of Life.
Digimon evolutions are so convoluted. They can evolve using "Digi-Eggs" which are like armor sets, multiple Digimon can combine into one, there's also DNA Digivolution with 2 Digimon combining into one, there's Hybrid evolutions where the kids themselves transform into Digimon by merging with one or more of the "Spirits of a Legendary Warriors", there's Warp Digivolutions where they just skip to their Mega form from Rookie, there's Biomerge Digivolutions where the kids and their Digimon become one, slide evolutions where they just go back and forth between two species as needed, and so so much more.
Digimon are heavily tied to the tamers emotions and thoughts. They are a vessel to show character and character growth, which gets a bid muddied in some of the games, where they become more of stats to look out for. But given their nature as tamagochi-like digital pets, the carers emotional state and responsibility had a direct influence over their course of evolution, which laid the basics for the later games (Digimon World 2 up until Cyber Sleuth, with the exceptopn of Digimon World and it's PS4 follow-up) and for the Anime as well. The anime then depitcs the use of digimon as allegoric aspects of the tamers really great (as long as you forget that X-Wars and Adventure 2020 exist, those are garbage and just made to show off). So in the case of Digimon it would be better to talk about it's concept as a magic system than a natural, scientific one, I guess.
Pokemon Evolution is based on the metamorphosis process of caterpillars and butterflies. Therefore Pokemon in the same line have different names, but are the same species, just like Caterpillars and Butterflies are the same species and have different names.
in the cartoons Pokemon evolve not based on level but sometimes necessity while in the game some evolve based on friendship. In my headcanon what triggers an evolution is a strong emotional reaction, be it happyness or stress so a healthy pokemon consistently forms an emotinal conection with its trainer up to the point of evolution (and you can calm that emotion pressing B) while in the wild more stressfull events can trigger early evolutions and explain the lvl 9 Salamancer
12:30 the explanation for hunting deviants in monster hunter over and over again is that they are actually the ‘same’ monster, and every hunt is technically the same hunt. Like a snap shot in time. That’s also why you can repeat your fights against fatalis is many games, or repeat notable fights like that.
for Pok'e Mon, a lot of them have different species classifications despite being in the same evolutionary line. and some even have overlapping species classifications even when they aren't closely related.
Fore Example, Blastoise is a Shellfish Pok'e mon despite being a turtle, which Kabuto and Kabutops share with it, despite being trilobites.
Even more weird, is that pok'e mon that are clearly subspecies of each other like the regional forms will often have different species names, like Ponyta being the Fire Horse and Galarian Ponyta being the Unique Horn.
And Finally, there are nolonger real world animals in pok'e mon. Those have been retconned out, and even then, it was only ever shown in the first season of the anime.
Wow, I've never seen the word Pokémon that misspelled before X)
@@nabuchodonosormcgalapatram6941 It's a force of habit from when I was little because I couldn't figure out how to type this é thingy (still don't know how without googling it first lol), and because originally Pokémon was stylized as Poké Mon (because it's derived from Pocket Monsters)
Old habits die hard I'm Afraid.
@@oucyan Well, it was always "Pokémon", written like this, the "é" being here to show that it's not pronounced "Pokeemon" by English speakers because it's indeed "Pocket Monsters" in Japanese. But I totally get why it became a habit for you, as a French guy, I never had this problem, but that's just because the "é" is a lot more common in French and therefore, easier to type...
@@nabuchodonosormcgalapatram6941 makes sense.
I personally could see the relative abundance of deviant monsters with the same kinda of bizarre changed traits as extreme examples of phenotypic plasticity, where the ability for it to happen is always in the monsters genetic code, but it just rarely ever happens except for in very specific conditions
I always figured what really classifies elder as such is their extreme control over the elements outside of their body.
Just a little something to note about deviants. The thing with them is that they're usually a result of something repeatable yes, same situation with variants and how a Furious Rajang is what you get when a Rajang looses its tail and survives or a Scarred Garuga is just a battle scarred veteran of its species, and as a result deviants themselves are considered a sub-category of variants. The difference with deviants is that, while the conditions that create one can indeed be repeated, usually said conditions are either more of a rarity, or the monster in question is less likely to survive the process.
Thunderlord Zinogre are the result of a genetic defect that overcharges their normally latent thunder organ.
Soulseer Mizutsune are blinded individuals who start feeding on bomb arowana since they can no longer catch the smaller and faster fish they would normally predate upon.
Elderfrost Gammoth and Silverwind Nargacuga are both just older representatives of their species that learned some new tricks along the way.
Rustrazor is simply a Shogun Ceanataur that wears Glavenus skulls, the metallic material of the fangs coating the Ceanataur's claws whenever it sharpens them.
Most of the deviants are like this, with some exceptions (Bloodbath IIRC is supposed to just be a specific individual). And admittedly, there's some that probably should just be reclassified as variants, like Crystalbeard which is just a male Uragaan decorating itself with rare gemstones to attract a mate. But for a good chunk of the deviants, them being in their own classification makes a fair bit of sense from the artificial categorization side of things I'd say.
For monster hunter and its subspecies/deviants. Sub species are essentially the same monster. However, they utilize different elements and tools in their movesets. So, like how barrioth uses ice, Sand Barrioth uses sand. They both both fight almost the exact same way. The only differences are that they grew and how they utilize that