Its not just bad intelligence decisions. I think the AMD 9000 chips indicates we are at the limit of current technologies. I think chip makers have known this for a couple years and they are just making up new products, hoping that we don't notice.
This is definitely possible. I was surprised to see the benchmarks for Zen 5. I would have liked to see a boost similar to Zen 2 and Zen 3. I agree that it does seem like some of the hardware coming out is being phoned in by the companies.
@@KenHarrisio You overlook that the 9700X is limited to 65W out of the box. I believe what AMD are trying to do properly this time is a market segmentation, with 9600-9700-9800-9900 (or whatever naming scheme, with a 9*00X3D thrown in) segmenting price and performance simultaneously.
Yeah. I feel like we are quickly running into the limits of x86 advancement. I feel like that's part of the reason why AI is a big focus now, with AMD and Intel. Arm and other Risc architectures may be the future of computing.
Its not, this is an AMD move for the server. Look at Phoronix Linux benchmarks, they are great. They want to take that market from Intel. Remember: Servers run Linux mostly.
My issue with Zen 5 is what many others have with it - the price points they chose for the new CPUs. Cutting power usage is great, but many people don't care about it, especially when a 7900X is $360 and a 9900X is $500. The performance doesn't reflect the price increase. If they released at the same price as Zen 4, I doubt most people would have had an issue with them.
FUCK! I went w/ an i9 in a Dell AlienWare M18 💻 almost a year ago! Dell sent me an email warning my 100% RMA warranty was gonna be up soon -Guess I BETTER re-up just in case the CPU Blows-The-Fuck-Up!🤬
That one time a video should have been titled "How Intel Rested On Their Laurels" But in all seriousness (and not that I wasn't serious).. awesome breakdown, Ken. Love all the historics.
Thanks to this disaster, my dad just called me this morning to inform me he's being forced to retire in the middle of several projects he was leading. I'm severely pissed off at them. I have no intention of ever buying another one of their bullshit chips. He also said AMD is just a more stable product. He's worked at Intel for almost 3 decades. He's never said a bad thing about an old employer no matter how much they've screwed him in the past so I know he's furious Fuck Intel I hope they fold. I cannot believe they're cutting 15k jobs. They disgust me.
Holy shit, that's unfortunate to hear. The layoffs are going to affect a lot of families. If your dad isn't ready to retire for good yet and wants to keep working in tech and needs some help finding a new position, I've got some connections that would be highly interested in his skillset.
He's overdue for a long break. I'm trying to push him back to doing contract work he enjoys it more and just moved across the country so it would help him get better integrated in his new community. Guess Apple's got my wallet a bit longer after all of this. I haven't been this angry in years and it's a huge shock. I will definitely reach out of he wants more tech work. It's a generous offer. I want him yo take a nap and focus on being a retired grandpa for now.
@@2rx_bni It sounds like it would be good for him to go enjoy more of life, so maybe this will be the thing that helps spur it. There will always be an infinite amount of work - not life. If he wants to go back to tech in the future, feel free to reach out to me.
Fumbled.. the... bag? They went on a 6 year bender, fell into a ditch, and are now rambling at the billboards at the main intersection in town. They laid off their mobile chip division nearly ten years ago. They just entered the GPU market two years ago. They are still using process node machinery that's "last gen" and are still another 2 years away from making anything that's proper EUV.
" Why is Apple failing? When Apple started, we were 10 years ahead of the competition. What happened in 10 years? Apple stood still and the competition caught up. Apple's solution is not to slash and burn but to innovate out of the problem." Steve Jobs, 1997
Watched this video an hour after this new "Sinkclose" flaw in AMD chips was HINTED at in Wired magazine. Tomorrow (10 August) the Defcon folks are gonna have an in-depth talk about this "bootkit" that may render certain families of AMD chip "virtually unfixable. " The drama continues...
I had looked into that and it sounds like AMD has got quite an issue on their hands with this one. It looks like the vulnerability goes back more than a decade. I looked at AMD's site and they don't plan to fix the issue for the Ryzen 3000 series. That's going to be a bad look if they don't change their course on that. The issues with Intel is a chance for AMD to look good, and they could fumble that if they don't help their customers.
@@KenHarrisio My only (working...) AMD machine has an AMD A4 which is one step above an abacus. Didn't see it in the preliminary list...yet. Intel and AMD trade blows in the marketplace...and trade screw-ups there, too. At this moment, it appears as though they're arguing about which company can step on their own d*cks better than the other...
@@jimcabezola3051 Yeah, it's unfortunate this is happening. It's always the customers who have to pay the price when companies act like this. Maybe more competition in the CPU market might get them to tighten up their game.
@@KenHarrisio Absolutely right! Maybe NVIDIA, QualComm, MediaTek, Raspberry Pi, and even RISC-V machines can take up the slack left behind by Intel and AMD. If nothing else, we will have plenty to see and do.
Intel got to cheap trying to release the market topping MSRP. Got caught in a monkey trap. Corporate tunnel vision of dollars before products. "It is a zero sum game" G. Gekko.
Even if Intel's next generation launches perfectly the damage is done. They've lost consumer trust, they've lost trust on the buisness side of things. Shareholders are pissed, and add to that $40 billion of debt it's not looking good. Unless they can pull a magical rabbit out of their ass and turn this around somehow I don't think they'll last as long as the extended warrenty they just added to 13th and 14th gen cpu's
13th and 14th-generation Intel desktop CPUs are pretty much the same thing due to Meteor Lake not clocking well on the desktop. The crashing issue does land on Intel, they should have locked all the cores and not done this silly single-core boost bs. That being said, AMD CPUs that boost single-core will have the same issues and do. Frame Chasers probably has the best breakdown on this, while I like Steve over at GN, he's not the best resource on this issue. Pat took over as CEO at Intel after it had already hit the iceberg, Arrow Lake / Lunar Lake, Intel Arc, IDM 2.0, etc, are what he has been working on, and these things take time, lots of time. Over the next couple of years, we will see how well or badly Pat has done. Regarding layoffs, Cisco laid off 4000 people, Meta, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft have all had layoffs, this isn't just an Intel thing. Also, you can't have a strong AMD with Intel taking up 90% of the market. Intel needs to stabilize and make up for the lost market share that AMD now has by taking market share from TSMC, not taking it back from AMD. That's the worst case here, we want AMD to do well. We should all want Intel's IDM 2.0 to work. I thought this might be a well-thought-out video starting with AMD pre-Lisa Sue, but it is just another Intel hit piece by someone who has no idea what is happening.
I appreciated listening to this video. A lot of the thought I've had. I appreciate Zen 5, I can see it from the perspective of the average consumers price to performance concerns. This will be a great generation for the server market, but non-24/7 gamers will not benefit from this much. You've got my sub I appreciate the story, the thoughts, analysis, and a good little ramble or musing with a balanced take. I'll listen to another video of yours. You got 10k subs but I think your videos deserve more views. I only wish I kept at it and started producing more videos myself. Maybe I will again in the future.
I think Zen 5 would have had good reception if they released it at the current prices of Zen 4. I was disappointed to see them release at the prices they chose. Most of the benchmarks I've looked at show the performance is about the same between the two. As it stands right now, the 7800X3D/5800X3D are the best value gaming CPUs depending on the budget available. Thanks for supporting the channel! It seems to be at a pretty good spot now with 10K. I've got enough time to respond to most comments still and I like talking about niche topics. It gets a lot more fun once you find a groove that works for you. Even now, I still constantly experiment with topics and future videos I'm planning. TBH, I actually like working on my website more at this point and am working on a lot more content for it right now than YT.
every single stock world wide has taken a dump ... Intel had the same issue as Ryzen 7000x3d upon release with motherboard bios over voltage and Overclock out of box thats bad ... they released a fix and stock intel voltages .. the problems over ,m now we have a waste of sand amd 9000 series !!!
I will never buy intel again and iv had 6 intel cpus the last 10 years, well maybe not never but the amount iv waster the last 2 years from them its gonna be a really long time
In general I think all chip manufacturers forgot that slow and reliable is better. They got too focused on stock prices and thought themselves Gods. Not enough lessons learned from Enron, I guess.
Its not just bad intelligence decisions. I think the AMD 9000 chips indicates we are at the limit of current technologies. I think chip makers have known this for a couple years and they are just making up new products, hoping that we don't notice.
This is definitely possible. I was surprised to see the benchmarks for Zen 5. I would have liked to see a boost similar to Zen 2 and Zen 3. I agree that it does seem like some of the hardware coming out is being phoned in by the companies.
@@KenHarrisio You overlook that the 9700X is limited to 65W out of the box. I believe what AMD are trying to do properly this time is a market segmentation, with 9600-9700-9800-9900 (or whatever naming scheme, with a 9*00X3D thrown in) segmenting price and performance simultaneously.
Yeah. I feel like we are quickly running into the limits of x86 advancement. I feel like that's part of the reason why AI is a big focus now, with AMD and Intel. Arm and other Risc architectures may be the future of computing.
Its not, this is an AMD move for the server. Look at Phoronix Linux benchmarks, they are great. They want to take that market from Intel. Remember: Servers run Linux mostly.
My issue with Zen 5 is what many others have with it - the price points they chose for the new CPUs. Cutting power usage is great, but many people don't care about it, especially when a 7900X is $360 and a 9900X is $500. The performance doesn't reflect the price increase. If they released at the same price as Zen 4, I doubt most people would have had an issue with them.
FUCK! I went w/ an i9 in a Dell AlienWare M18 💻 almost a year ago! Dell sent me an email warning my 100% RMA warranty was gonna be up soon -Guess I BETTER re-up just in case the CPU Blows-The-Fuck-Up!🤬
Damn, that sucks ass. That might be a good idea to do, as I've seen articles talking about mobile chips having issues as well.
That one time a video should have been titled "How Intel Rested On Their Laurels"
But in all seriousness (and not that I wasn't serious).. awesome breakdown, Ken. Love all the historics.
Lol I noticed when I was editing that I used that phrase about 6 times.
Thanks for supporting the channel!
Thanks to this disaster, my dad just called me this morning to inform me he's being forced to retire in the middle of several projects he was leading. I'm severely pissed off at them. I have no intention of ever buying another one of their bullshit chips.
He also said AMD is just a more stable product. He's worked at Intel for almost 3 decades. He's never said a bad thing about an old employer no matter how much they've screwed him in the past so I know he's furious
Fuck Intel I hope they fold. I cannot believe they're cutting 15k jobs. They disgust me.
Holy shit, that's unfortunate to hear. The layoffs are going to affect a lot of families.
If your dad isn't ready to retire for good yet and wants to keep working in tech and needs some help finding a new position, I've got some connections that would be highly interested in his skillset.
He's overdue for a long break. I'm trying to push him back to doing contract work he enjoys it more and just moved across the country so it would help him get better integrated in his new community.
Guess Apple's got my wallet a bit longer after all of this. I haven't been this angry in years and it's a huge shock.
I will definitely reach out of he wants more tech work. It's a generous offer. I want him yo take a nap and focus on being a retired grandpa for now.
@@2rx_bni It sounds like it would be good for him to go enjoy more of life, so maybe this will be the thing that helps spur it. There will always be an infinite amount of work - not life.
If he wants to go back to tech in the future, feel free to reach out to me.
Fumbled.. the... bag? They went on a 6 year bender, fell into a ditch, and are now rambling at the billboards at the main intersection in town.
They laid off their mobile chip division nearly ten years ago. They just entered the GPU market two years ago. They are still using process node machinery that's "last gen" and are still another 2 years away from making anything that's proper EUV.
" Why is Apple failing? When Apple started, we were 10 years ahead of the competition. What happened in 10 years? Apple stood still and the competition caught up. Apple's solution is not to slash and burn but to innovate out of the problem." Steve Jobs, 1997
Who would knew, that keep pushing higher and higher power targets would eventually turn into a problem? (looking at you NVIDIA)
Watched this video an hour after this new "Sinkclose" flaw in AMD chips was HINTED at in Wired magazine. Tomorrow (10 August) the Defcon folks are gonna have an in-depth talk about this "bootkit" that may render certain families of AMD chip "virtually unfixable. "
The drama continues...
I had looked into that and it sounds like AMD has got quite an issue on their hands with this one. It looks like the vulnerability goes back more than a decade. I looked at AMD's site and they don't plan to fix the issue for the Ryzen 3000 series. That's going to be a bad look if they don't change their course on that. The issues with Intel is a chance for AMD to look good, and they could fumble that if they don't help their customers.
@@KenHarrisio My only (working...) AMD machine has an AMD A4 which is one step above an abacus. Didn't see it in the preliminary list...yet.
Intel and AMD trade blows in the marketplace...and trade screw-ups there, too.
At this moment, it appears as though they're arguing about which company can step on their own d*cks better than the other...
Oh man them too? Sheesh...
@@jimcabezola3051 Yeah, it's unfortunate this is happening. It's always the customers who have to pay the price when companies act like this. Maybe more competition in the CPU market might get them to tighten up their game.
@@KenHarrisio Absolutely right! Maybe NVIDIA, QualComm, MediaTek, Raspberry Pi, and even RISC-V machines can take up the slack left behind by Intel and AMD. If nothing else, we will have plenty to see and do.
Intel got to cheap trying to release the market topping MSRP. Got caught in a monkey trap. Corporate tunnel vision of dollars before products. "It is a zero sum game" G. Gekko.
Even if Intel's next generation launches perfectly the damage is done. They've lost consumer trust, they've lost trust on the buisness side of things. Shareholders are pissed, and add to that $40 billion of debt it's not looking good. Unless they can pull a magical rabbit out of their ass and turn this around somehow I don't think they'll last as long as the extended warrenty they just added to 13th and 14th gen cpu's
Normie here. When was the Gen 13 designed and tested? Roughly the year. Wondering if it could have been during the peak of COVID.
The US patent office has that information under lock and key. Intel is a federal contractor. We're never getting that information.
13th and 14th-generation Intel desktop CPUs are pretty much the same thing due to Meteor Lake not clocking well on the desktop. The crashing issue does land on Intel, they should have locked all the cores and not done this silly single-core boost bs. That being said, AMD CPUs that boost single-core will have the same issues and do. Frame Chasers probably has the best breakdown on this, while I like Steve over at GN, he's not the best resource on this issue. Pat took over as CEO at Intel after it had already hit the iceberg, Arrow Lake / Lunar Lake, Intel Arc, IDM 2.0, etc, are what he has been working on, and these things take time, lots of time. Over the next couple of years, we will see how well or badly Pat has done. Regarding layoffs, Cisco laid off 4000 people, Meta, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft have all had layoffs, this isn't just an Intel thing. Also, you can't have a strong AMD with Intel taking up 90% of the market. Intel needs to stabilize and make up for the lost market share that AMD now has by taking market share from TSMC, not taking it back from AMD. That's the worst case here, we want AMD to do well. We should all want Intel's IDM 2.0 to work. I thought this might be a well-thought-out video starting with AMD pre-Lisa Sue, but it is just another Intel hit piece by someone who has no idea what is happening.
I appreciated listening to this video. A lot of the thought I've had. I appreciate Zen 5, I can see it from the perspective of the average consumers price to performance concerns. This will be a great generation for the server market, but non-24/7 gamers will not benefit from this much.
You've got my sub I appreciate the story, the thoughts, analysis, and a good little ramble or musing with a balanced take. I'll listen to another video of yours. You got 10k subs but I think your videos deserve more views. I only wish I kept at it and started producing more videos myself. Maybe I will again in the future.
I think Zen 5 would have had good reception if they released it at the current prices of Zen 4. I was disappointed to see them release at the prices they chose. Most of the benchmarks I've looked at show the performance is about the same between the two. As it stands right now, the 7800X3D/5800X3D are the best value gaming CPUs depending on the budget available.
Thanks for supporting the channel! It seems to be at a pretty good spot now with 10K. I've got enough time to respond to most comments still and I like talking about niche topics. It gets a lot more fun once you find a groove that works for you. Even now, I still constantly experiment with topics and future videos I'm planning. TBH, I actually like working on my website more at this point and am working on a lot more content for it right now than YT.
womp womp
every single stock world wide has taken a dump ... Intel had the same issue as Ryzen 7000x3d upon release with motherboard bios over voltage and Overclock out of box thats bad ... they released a fix and stock intel voltages .. the problems over ,m now we have a waste of sand amd 9000 series !!!
Dead 💀 Inside
Bring back the Pentium!
- Al Yankovic
Hell yeah brother! I haven't heard anyone mention Weird Al's name in a long time. I just looked him up and saw he has a YT channel.
@@KenHarrisio "Intel you think your chip is really neato? What are you running? A burrito?"
I will never buy intel again and iv had 6 intel cpus the last 10 years, well maybe not never but the amount iv waster the last 2 years from them its gonna be a really long time
I think you mean "Fumbled the ball" ; )
The Bag is money so no, he was correct.
why making such a problem with raptor lakes, AMD was not better they still have memory issues
In general I think all chip manufacturers forgot that slow and reliable is better. They got too focused on stock prices and thought themselves Gods. Not enough lessons learned from Enron, I guess.
intel would still comeback with Arrow lake and AMd would not be able to compete with crapy zen5 cpus