Core Ultra: Intel Under Performs ... Again
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
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► Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:06 What is Meteor Lake
02:17 Intel's Failed Marketing Rebrand
05:39 Performance
08:24 Power Draw
09:21 Heat & Fan Noise
10:12 Battery Life
10:30 Integrated Graphics
11:26 Conclusion
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In response to AMD and Apple, we at intel are proud to announce that our 10nm process will now be renamed to Intel 1 nm. This is a 10x improvement on paper and marketing material!
Intel FNN1++
All process names are marketing terms, intel is still competitive
And here we at AMD got greedy and launched 8000 series with no improvement from 7000 series
@@sovietunion9131 i think its just iGPU upgrade but not the CPU.
@@syarifairlangga4608 Nope, the first digit in AMD's laptop CPUs literally just ticks up one digit every year. It has no bearing on the architecture. 7840 = 8840. Literally just a model year designation.
They over promised and slowly walked back when they realized it wouldn't be an M1 or Zen moment. That's why OEMs were mad at Intel. OEMs did work hard finding a spot on the market for this thing though.
the elephant in the room is ARM, sitting there looking at x86 trying to act and look like it is still in its 20s.
@@landspide Yeah, which is why Intel is trying to do some freaky stuff with Meteor and soon Arrow lake in an attempt to evolve X86 to keep up. Too bad it seems like they failed this time again. Maybe AMD could dictate what the future of X86 would be like.
@@John.Philip.Tan876 I don't think it is possible, it carries way too much baggage, the weight of legacy is just too much. It might spell the end of windows over the next decade or so (you can only put so much lipstick on a pig). Linux is in a much better position to switch over to ARM, it is just that it is such a small market that the hardware vendors are not interested in going all in for. Basically Apple won this eon for the workstation, just like they did with their phones, everyone and their dogs that I know are buying macbooks now.
@@landspide Windows on ARM has been out for a long time now. I bet Microsoft will focus much more on it now that we get that nice new snapdragon chip.
@@Pyrioldtrue, but so much if Microsoft's mojo comes from x86, they have been trying to make arm a thing since wince days.
The problem with modern day mass computing for consumers is this: You are stuck having to choose between a miserable user experience with fan noise, heat, and short battery life with windows laptops, or a miserable user experience with macOS but having no fan noise, no heat, and great battery life.
Haha, yup. I left that walled garden because it was rotting. But great hardware isn't enough for me to dismiss bad software. Not that MacOS is inefficient, it's just so "stiff" compared to Windows, and God I've hated the design language since Johnny Ive puked all over the software.
i all use all Windows, Mac and Linux OS. MacOs is not that bad. It might actually better than windows for user that do not want to tinker with their laptop much. The issue for me iis gaming on mac is just such a bad thing haha
Lol, windows is massive bloatware, actively contributing to planned obsolescence to sell more licenses. I don't know why people torture themselves with windows when the major linux distros currently work OOB on most hardware, including stuff that's 10 years old. Even gaming on linux is pretty much on par with Windows these days. MacOS is a fine alternative for anyone who doesn't like gaming or tinkering.
@@oatbear8243 was waiting for the Linux guy. They can’t seem to see the word mainstream.
@@oatbear8243 dont game but can't run my apps on linux, so zero interest to me, Windows still better than MacOS
I appreciate you for putting your conclusions upfront! And I watched it all the way through anyway.
Thanks!
i like how Josh just says things straight to point and doesnt shill, he just speaks it as it is
Meteor lake looks like a step in the right direction, while it only closes the gap a bit, it paves the way for future generations to built on an actually viable architecture and be a match for Apple and AMD once again.
Honestly it looks like from the beginning they were going to focus on this AI aspect of the chips. Then Very early in the process apple rocked their world and all the influencers caught on to how people want battery life and efficiency. The ability to perform ONLY on demand is insanely useful for a laptop. Intel was very much all or nothing and basically assumed you were going to be plugged into the wall. The reason this isn't the giant leap ppl hoped for is they already saw the leap from M processors and intel has to work inside windows with more problems around compatibility concerns. The benefits of a company that controls the entire ecosystem is they can well, control everything. The next iteration of this chip will be THE one to get I'm expecting.
@@oneupper666Bruh, AMD’s Strix Point Halo with 12 cores, 40 CU RDNA4, & 50 TOPs NPU comes out summer 2024. Intel’s ARL won’t launch until 2025!
go buy the X elite laptops and get stuck in an endless pain of not having supported apps @LocoMated
x86 will never be competitive in mobile due to all of its legacy CISC instructions. But it's still king in any place where power draw is not a priority. ARM (or similar RISC) is the king in mobile, and Apple wants it to be the king everywhere
Hold on, they've introduced multi-tile expensive architecture and it's not delivering even the expected energy & performance benefit of the node shrink?
The samples they sent out even had faster expensive LPDDR than used on production models, probably to boost iGPU performance in benchmarks.
The limited sampling reminds me of Nvidia's play with 4060 to gain favourable buzz from shill reviewers.
This doesn't bode well.
Either the Foveros works and delivers measurable benefits vs Phoenix/Hawk Point, or Intel are left with a complex, expensive architecture that is hard to produce because it mixes n matches nodes, but fails to better the competitions 2023 chip.
It seems that showing 110°C CPU temps is not a software fault. Looking at Intel ARK site, T junction max for Core Ultra processors has been bumped from 100°C to 110°C so it can actually touch those temps.
This is super helpful. Thank you, and wow
@@JustJoshTech Yeah. I do wonder how heat generation is not reduced in the new design since it uses smaller transistor size(7nm), discrete chiplet design, lower boost clocks than Raptor Lake counterparts and lower TDP. In all likelihood, I expected thermals to improve further while they look worse or at par with RPL for same performance level in initial designs. May be some gaming systems with ample cooling can shed more light on this.
@Just Josh, those graphics results are a tad suspect. Do you know what ram MSI and Asus supplied with those laptops and what speed were the modules clocked to?
Hi, love your videos. Two things I’ve noticed though. First one is the battery graphs show remaining battery instead of consumed battery, which, despite being better for visualization, don’t linearize well for comparison (For example, a computer with 30% remaining battery didn’t spend double the energy as one with 60% remaining, despite one value being double of the other, which affects comparison).
Another thing I’ve noticed is you don’t show processor efficiency while doing lightweight tasks such as media consumption or browsing, which, for most people, is what 90% of their time using the computer’s going to look like. I’d say efficiency while doing lightweight tasks is WAY more important than at full load, so it would be nice to have those numbers.
Check the prices. These laptops are priced decently, and are specced with sufficient ram and disk space. The MSI is 1400 usd for a 32GB, 1TB config, that is nearly half of similar specced MacBook m3, if it had same performance as M3 it would be a massive steal. The concerning part is they are not able to get to the same perf even if they wanted to. But for a lot of people 1400 usd for a laptop is a lot more in reach.
1400 i'd get a macbook and enjoy 15hrs of batt life untethered to a wall. Besides, 99% of the people do not need 32GB and 1TB, majority is fine with half of that
@@delta0307 i honestly don't understand why super long battery life is even necessary. You only need that much battery life if you have a very long layover (and even this, many airports already have the wall sockets, where you can just charge your laptop. And when you want to take out your laptop to coffeeshops (again), most of them already have wall sockets, and you won't be there for over 3-4 hours anyway
@@donnieamz2938 in coffee shops, people cram areas with wall sockets so you won't be guaranteed a wall socket all the time. Even in airports, people hog areas where there are wall sockets. In my case where I move a lot and I'm at the mercy of clients where they want to meet and where they sit, it's nice that I do not have to worry about these things. Back then on my windows, I would find my running out of batt mid day and I have to force myself to look for a socket somewhere just to juice up wasting a lot of time
@@donnieamz2938 Nah battery life is always something you can't get enough of. Saying 3-4 hours is enough because "you won't really be there anyway" is just dishonest.
That 15 hours of the MacBook is while watching Netflix, while on load it can last 2-4 hours. A laptop that lasts 3-4 hours on idle, might last 20-40 minutes on load, which makes it basically a laptop for grandmas.
That's why more battery life is important.
For the iGPU bench, what is the memory configuration/timing on the Meteor Lake ? for iGPU the memory differences are a huge change, f.e. a Radeon 780M on 5600 DDR5 vs a 6000 DDR5 is quite a bit different ... so comparing the results without the information being present is misleading ...
Cope harder 😂
CPU IPC is practically indistinguishable apparently, from Raptor Lake. No wonder OEMs are upset
Great video, thanks for attempting to explain the naming convention!!
Good Video, very in depth, thanks. I don't think you stated anywhere that these chips are made by TSMC for Intel?
What an excellent video! I learned all I needed to keep up with Intel's latest without any confusion or waste of time. Thank you!!
I was out for a new laptop for software development and you have no idea how stressful Intel and AMD confusing models were. Add to this the availability in the markets around the world and combining other configurations like RAM size. I could never find the configuration I wanted no matter the compromises I made and I couldn't get to an i7 32GB surface laptop. Finally, I got myself a mac and paid the extra price although I love Windows so much :'(
if you want a decent laptop that runs linux/windows give up on battery life, at least until qualcomm produce something that linux users will adopt. I just upgraded from an XPS15 after 8 years to a Lenovo Slim/Yoga 9i, it is a big improvement all around, with the exception of battery life, it is horrendous. I dual boot linux and the only major issue is the audio support (which is apparently getting fixed in upcoming kernel release). Just expect to carry a charger with you everywhere, at least until Intel give in and realise the mistake they made selling xscale to marvell. I do use a Lenovo Duet 5 (Chromebook) for light work which has great battery life but poor performance (a glimmer of hope is there for the future)
I'm so confused. You couldn't find the configuration you wanted so you paid more money for an inferior product? Why even buy a surface laptop instead of a regular Windows laptop on top of that you can literally go out and get a i7 32gb surface pro right now it's definitely available 🤔
@@lunawense6288 no one can call it an inferior product at all. The only surfaces available are in the 12th gen and produces lots of heat and fan noside compared to the M3. Still they are amazing devices, but I just wanted a laptop which can serve me for the next 10 years like my old one did. I just wanted something to buy and forget.
@@lunawense6288Mac isn't an inferior product in literally any way except that he prefers in windows. At this point macs beat every single windows laptop with their eyes closed, no competition. Just look at the benchmarks.
@Josh, great analsysis and you actually considered a lot of factors in a scientific way and combined them to provide a better understanding. Just a complain, the comparison between Radeon 780M (in Pavilion Plus 14) and the Arc igPU in ZenBook 14, I think is a bit unfair. Pavilion Plus is pretty conservative in Power curve and only provides around 25W sustained and 28W Max whereas as per your review, ZenBook was pulling over 50W for shorter time and then keeping it over 30W during long run. Can you please do a comparison, restricting both at same Wattage, may be using the Legion Slim 7 and limiting both to 30W?
I just noticed the in Josh's geekbench multicore the legion's 7840HS performed worse than the 7840u in the pavilion. Is that a typo or is the legion messed up?
it was a bios bug. now it's normal.
I have Intel CPU laptop that's 5 years old and still does everything I need. TH-camrs think everyone need a Ferrari performance. Battery life, on the other hand, was never good so that could use improvements.
It's not about performance, it's about intel failing to compete against Apple and AMD
I feel from the results that the 7840U is still the winner here. Longer battery life even with a smaller battery, more performance per watt... iGPU is truly a big step up, but I worry that in games the 780M will still be beating it despite its Timespy score being lower...
When reviewers actually try gaming with Intel’s MTL vs AMD’s Hawk point, MTL will get slaughtered.
@@tringuyen7519 I watched other reviews and honestly it didn't look too bad for Intel but yes, I am excited to see more data and honestly, I WILL indeed be positively surprised if MTL ties or wins :D but I remain hopeful. More competition in iGPU performance is very good for AMD
Exactly my thoughts, If I'm buying a non apple laptop for daily productivity tasks I'd consider AMD U series chip as it has vastly better battery life compared to Intel ones.
What sucks is laptop manufacturers don't recognize AMDs performance per wattage. Top of the line premium laptops all feature Intel, from Dell to ThinkPad. It's so backwards, I suspect it's a contract thing
@@reviewchan9806 The reason why it's this way is because Intel designs the laptops for the ODMs, so they might pay the same for the chip as with AMD (or more, since AMD is usually cheaper) but save a ton of money in R&D by not having to design the laptop. While Intel earns less money this way, I guess in the end it pays off for them due to volume? AMD also does this, I am sure, just in a much lower quantity, and I am pretty sure they know better than us how much or little would they earn if they were more or less aggressive... Or I hope they know lol
Great review, thanks!
Great points about power usage!!! intel should have shown meteor lake running silently. That would have been better then trying to push it ftw
I'm allergic to laptop fan noise. Completely unacceptable unless the computer is running under sustained load. Biggest weakness of my 9500 xps is the fan is always running, my 5520 latitude under full load has a barely perceptible fan noise.
You and me both
We need videos of DJ Josh.
Hopefully next year we can do one :)
Yes. Please. I want to see after hours Josh. :)
For the battery, wouldnt it make sense to test it for normal usage scenario rather than a fully loaded test ?
Would you recommend this new zenbook 14 with meteor lake for photo editing?
Thanks for the coverage! Really appreciate this review as I'm interested to see where intel's going.
Side note, weirdly enough I had to resubscribe to your cool channel for some reason. YT might be doing some weird stuff again.
Was the fan noise measured on performance mode? If it’s on that mode I would want it working as hard as possible to cool it so I wouldn’t mind the noise on that mode
Hi Josh nice video.
I have a question:
is legion slim 7 8gen (AMD) a good laptop for computer science ?
if not any suggestions. Thanks
Yesssss
Un maquinón!
The Arc GPU is a great upgrade, and I am curious what other software (especially creative photo/music/video) takes advantage of the A.I features. I knew the battery life and stuff wouldn't be too much an improvement, but I think it's impressive given that Intel 4 is still on a 7nm node (I believe). For that, it's actually quite impressive.
On the desktop Intel is definitely still leading the X86 market, mostly because they can blast power efficiency out the window for raw performance lol. On laptop, I'm looking forward to them continuing to catch up in manufacturing process, but as a creative person I think the neural chip will actually be used a lot by the likes of Adobe, Black Magic, Affinity etc.
I don't know why people keep saying Intel 4 node is actually 7nm while they are ok with other manufacturers like TSMC or Samsung to use 4nm naming for the same level of performance.
The moment FinFET became a thing "nm" stopped meaning anything. intel 7nm = tsmc, samsung 4nm which is why they rebranded to intel 4.
@@lightninghell4 that's what I'm saying. but people still keep saying.
"yeah~ TSMC 4nm, Samsung 4nm~"
"nonono! Intel 4 is actually 7nm!" even they are same level.
Lolol, that's a ridiculous take. Arc is good on Timespy not games which is the mainstay consumer market.
The AI unit only matches Phoenix, the Hawk Point one has a large boost over it.
As for Quicksync benefitting creative, that's there in Raptor, so you're being asked to buy an expensive multi-tile chip that's not delivering on Intel 7 -> 4 expected process improvements.
This new arch, turns out not to be desktop worthy, missed its iGPU performance target and on CPU matches 2023 range, not the coming 2024 processor launches.
@@RobBCactivethis iGPU also good in games, read any other article/review and it's basically on par with 780M
There's at least one change to the P-core architecture compared to Raptor Lake if Wikipedia is accurate -- they doubled the L1 cache per core to 64KB. L2 cache remains the same, except that apparently each cluster of four E-cores now only gets 2MB, not 4MB. Very odd if true.
According to some Intel slides, the E-cores have improved branch prediction and IPC. They also claim the P and E cores give "improved feedback" to Intel Thread Director. I don't have an Intel PC with P and E cores, so haven't run into any situations where tasks are running on the wrong type of core. But I know others have, so hopefully there's some noticeable improvement here. Though part of the problem seems to be Windows not really explaining to users what different performance profiles mean.
Cant wait to see how proud userbenchmark is of these processors.
I watched 3 different reviews of meteor lake all use the same laptop with the same cpu core ultra 155H but each have different battery life. The poorest battery life I saw is in this channel while hardware Canucks got the highest battery (20hours). Which battery mode was used when running battery life test here ?
Hey, check what they ran on battery. We tested performance tasks on battery. My buddies over there probably tested something like movie playback
Wow Josh, an exclusive, great!
I've seen tests for M3 chips reaching 108 Celsius under load, comparable to the chips you tested. No wonder you forgot to include them alongside Core Ultra in the test. I can agree it's not revolutionary, but still an impressive upgrade over last generation of Intel chips.
Even though your comment was said rather rudly. It's a valid point. I will run that test for future comparisons
@@JustJoshTechI didn't mean to be rude. Sorry for that. I also think you should include GPU performance on M3 into the chart. Otherwise the test is skewed Apple way. Don't get me wrong here - I believe from pure daily driver performance M3 is the best chip out there right now. Still as a casual gamer I would consider it twice, despite recent improvements in Mac gaming.
5:25 I am a fan of computer tech since the amiga 500 and I never ever heard anyone saying he wants his device be better/ more performant for AI. But till the apple m-series I never heard anyone not complaining about battery
Could you do another evaluation? There have been a lot of updates since the launch of the Core Ultra. I suppose that many updates were significant since the Ultra is a first-gen product, and I'm interested in knowing the impact.
If I get time. I would watch my Yoga Pro 9i review. It has a bit of an update in it
@@JustJoshTech Thank you. I will check that review.
in terms of naming i think no one can beat SONY, yes i'm looking at the 1000xm4 and the xperia 1 ii 😅
Adding to that, there are two 1000xm4's, and they are two completely different products! one is a headphone the other are earphones... like seriously?
When I look at my Bluetooth settings and see the Sony device names I get nauseous. 🤢
The absolute worst naming has to be from monitor manufacturers... Like what the hell is a 27GP850-B or a G274QPF-QD or a 24G2SPAE/BK
completely agree with you. If big business would swallow their pride and clean out their ears and actually start listening to the little people......
The fact that you get to the point is why i love this channel . My best wishes for you sir
Thank you
2024 is a computing fun. But I'm more excited for Qualcomm Snapdragon X elite laptops than AMD/Intel's - underdog contender.
From the gaming comparisons I've seen despite doing much better in timespy, the 780m either performs better or is inky slightly behind. I'd assume it does handily win in productivity since Intel has a track record of being great, in that category.
I dont think comparing the H series CPU to other U series cpu isnt the full picture. Could you also include the ultra 7 155U?
Happy New Year, Josh! While everyone is partying, I am getting intoxicated on tech videos, which sounds quite pathetic as I am typing these words (young kid at home; don't judge me :). I was wondering, did you happen to catch Matt Moniz' recent video about a substantive performance increase of these Meteor Lake chips after some bios update? I understand that obviously a bios update is specific to the laptop OEM, rather than Intel, and so Moniz' bios update would not affect laptops other than the sku he was testing (not sure how well explained that was...or maybe I'm just missing the point); but still, if there is some performance increase after an update, perhaps it might be worth revisiting your conclusions posted here? Anyway, hope all is well. I enjoyed your recent live stream and appreciate your answering my question there. I'm excited for the future of your channels.
Very small differences between generations from Intel Apple and amd. Everyone's just making space on the chip for ai processors. Same cores same igpu etc.
2:27 : I don't know why, I feel like the rebrand isn't as confuse as I think. Well... maybe I'm too smart or already well adapted, I don't know. I only watching or seeing that repeatedly, I feel familiar
Thinking of getting this one for my wifey, with 155H/32GB/1TB, 2.8K OLED being the key here as she is into photography and some video editing. Myself I got the EliteBook 835 G10 7840U/32GB/2TB Samsung 990 Pro with FHD which is sufficient for me, but business class matters more, running Opensuse Tumbleweed (linux).
I'm really excited to get a MTL laptop.
the balance mode some time out perform the performance mode.
I hoped for more from Meteor Lake, but still, this seems like a decent upgrade from Intel which hopefully sets the foundation for future improvements.
I do wish that TH-cam contributors would stop with the constant MacBook comparisons. The MacBook Pro 14 (M3 Pro 11C) is $2599 if upgraded with comparable RAM and storage. The MacBook Pro 16 (M3 Max 16C) is $3999. Should they really be compared to $1299 (Zenbook 14) and $1449 (Prestige 16) laptops? Beyond that point, many users must have x86-64 compatibility (drivers for devices, etc.), or must have Windows and would find running Windows on Arm as their primary OS via virtualization on a Mac to be an unnecessary inconvenience.
Yes I understand that Shane. Thats why we included alot of PC laptop comparisons for you as well. I feel its important to be comprehensive here. Please also note that by showing you the MacBook Pro M3 Pro, which btw is Apple's mid range processor similar to the Meteor Lake H series, it allows you to see part of the reasons why MacBooks are so much more expensive. Then you can decide if its worth it to you to spend more
@@JustJoshTech Thanks for the explanation! Perhaps in these situations you could link to a disclaimer video with the "Apple tax and technical reasons why macOS and/or Apple Silicon may not be suitable for your use cases" information. I'm a computer nerd and programmer myself, so I don't really need this information, but I worry that a less tech-savvy shopper might watch your videos and decide to go all out on a MacBook Pro 16 only to find that it is completely unsuitable for their use cases.
Anyway, thanks for the quality content on your channel!
Never had any issues with the previous naming convention
Can you please do an update with benchmarks when new drivers become available? thanks
I didn't see the M3 between Graphics score?!
Btw Arc has been known to be much better at Timespy than it is at gaming.
I just bought a new Asus Zenbook with Core Ultra 7. I have to say I have been very impressed with the laptop and the CPU inside. Battery life is actually very good. the iGPU is quite good on paper and with some significant driver improvements gaming has gotten a lot better since this review was done. 4K video playback from TH-cam while streaming over WiFi was about 13 hours. My Geekbench 6 scores were easily better than an Apple M3. Finally doing some light Python programming and fooling around with the NPU, I was able to run a Llama LLM model with very little heat and fan noise since the software was taking advantage of the NPU on die.
I think the main problem was that Intel's and their OEM partners didn't have the software ecosystem fleshed out at launch. That seems to be a recurrent problem. But the fact is with BIOS, OS and driver updates the platform has improved a lot in 5 months.
For a civil engineer, what laptop do you recommend? I look for a long battery life and it does not need to be connected to use its potential. I would like a MacBook but many programs are not compatible with IOS. please help
AMD ThinkPad z13 and z16 are pretty good for this particular use case. The highee core count and efficiency works well with heavily threaded workloads.
The thing is that porting the P-core aquitecture to a new process node, that is Intel 4, we should expect increased performance, at least from increased clock speeds. That it didn’t happens, is sign that Intel 4 is botched (not surprised).
I was surprised
Thanks for the straight talk, directly to the bottom line.
Yes yes, but the question i have is what genres did you DJ at Arc?
Trance
Wish the video playback goot the same nigh macbook levels of idle performance that browsers did from what ive seen in other reviews (one i saw had 21hrs of battery life with meteor lake with a 75whr battery). High usage loads i typically do when plugged in anyway on laptops so if those idle battery life improvements were as dramatic with video playback too as they were for browser surfing i could very much live with that to not have to use mac os. Anyways it does seem like intel is tightening their requirements for laptoop manufactuers to not gouge you on important specs like battery size , number of ram channels or screens because not only are macbooks way more efficient, they typically have significantly larger batteries than windows laptops do until ofc u get to the masive windows laptops that almost always max out the 100whr travel limit that the 16 inch macbook pro also does anyway while typically being way smaller than most besides the premium laptops that actually finally stop gouging you on battery size and do the exact same things apple does to get a 100whr battery in that form factor. If u want an atrciously bad example of this my mums near $1500 17 inch laptop thats like 2.5mm thich has a 40whr battery while ive seen multiple 14 inch laptops at like 1.5mm thin with 75whr batteries on windows and my mums laptop is literally 12th gen so its like 2 years old, battery density does not improve very fast for that to almost even matter at all lemme tell you. Just pathetic key hardware gouging that i hope intel is cracking down on more this time around.
An excellent presentation on the new Meteor Lake chips. I would buy a Meteor Lake laptop with exceptional battery life in a heartbeat. I use Windows devices for business purposes and do not understand why Intel cannot make chips which rival Apple Silicon.
im still learning in the field of laptops so i apologize for asking, but can its performance be improved with updates for optimization?
It can yes. But i would expect it to be more incremental improvements if any at all. I.e. not a massive improvement
@@JustJoshTech i was considering purchasing this laptop which is why i asked. thank you so much for answering 👍🏽
@@avoltaz72 Its hard to beat the Build quality, Speed and efficiency of a Mac.
So, for the ultrabook chips, the CPU is a nominal increase in performance, but hopefully improved efficiency for increased battery life (TBC).
The new ARC GPU significantly improves the ancient 13-Gen, but it only catches up on 3-4 years of woeful iGPU performance. My best take is better late than never.
AI marketing is the strategy to sell when the rest is underwhelming, and only time will tell if that adds up to more than background blur on your webcam.
This closes the gap on the M3 chips, but they remain chasing Apple's shadow on this gen, at least as far as the ultrabook chips are concerned.
That's what I call a comprehensive summary. Thank you!
Can we get a review on Maingear ML laptops
which one i must choose between.. MacBook Pro 14 m3 16 GB 512ssd or MacBook Pro 16 m1 max 32gb 1to ????
Go for the 16 M1 Max. It's basically just as fast, has a way bigger screen (can't go wrong), has more memory and more storage.
Abysmal integrated graphics have been a thing with Intel processors since time immemorial so it's really nice to see them taking a major step forward in this area.
utterly meaningless performance way below rtx 3050 which is as weak as it gets for dedicated gpus
@@NeverSettleForMediocrity Its integrated graphics, so of course it will be lower
You should wait for AMD’s Strix Point halo with 12 cores, 40 CU RDNA4, & 50 TOPs NPU coming out in summer 2024.
Intel beating Amd.
Meanwhile Amd fanboy : Lets pretend we don't see it, let's keep coping while also downplay it.
Amd fanboy is still happier to see grandma Lisa milking them with the same cpu and gpu like Strix point aka Amd 8000 series 🤣
Any info on intel 15th Gen for Desktops?
Ah, i don't and if any reviewer does it would be under embargo
Thx for comparing AMD and Apple chips as well, good move there!👍Intel has made a right step forward but it's clear it can't match latest Apple chips.
Is this new zenbook 14 worth getting over the old one?
no
Be aware intel’s existing ARC GPU’s perform better in 3D mark than they do in most games.
Noted
It's a higt time Intel spent more time improving its GPU. In my company, I had to buy 40+ portable models and decided to go with AMD version. Our software did not work with Intel GPU (!), was too laggy and throttling caused our apps to display motion...sometimes slower, sometimes faster, depending on how much power was assigned to GPU/CPU. In AMD version - we never had similar issues.
Cannot wait until Josh gets hold of Snapdragon X elite is going to eat ML for breakfast
Put this baby into a thinkpad X1E, high refresh, touchscreen, miniled, no dgpu, and youll have yourself the best M1 mac competitor
Oh bro.... I just bought the 13700h zenbook 14x.
is it still worth it or I should get the new one instead??
(I use it for coding)
My 2 cents... if they cost the same slight lean to the new one... but for coding the larger 14.5 inch display of the 14x is very nice. But... they don't cost anywhere near the same. The new one is much more. So it's really whether you want to pay alot more
Can NPU be used to discover if computer is being hacked? or be used to help a student solve math homework?
Meteor Lake P cores are essentially the same IP as Raptor Lake. None of your tests would show off the benefits of the LPe cores, all you did was run the laptops at full load which is not where the power improvements on this chip are suppose to occur.
They may improve with time as W11 optimises and apps are updated.
Agree, "battery test" but run it full load. I rather watch other reviewers like jarrod or dave2d with a more realistic load
I wish we had a socketed desktop part, since the chassis and firmware of these laptops is making it so hard to tell if the chip can be good or if the laptop complete package is messing with things. And hopefully some firmware/driver/software updates will sort out some of the weirder or inconsistent results some reviewers are seeing.
I would love to see intel be more competitive, I'm not totally sure this does that, but they've put all their chips into this disaggregated design, so honestly I feel like we have to wait until Arrow Lake, or maybe some mini-PC desktops of Meteor Lake to see how far this disaggregated design scheme can go. I don't really trust Windows laptop makers to make strong firmware, or adequate cooling with sensible fan curves, which is sad. So I wait to see it in a desktop form factor of some kind before truly passing judgment on the whole Foveros thing.
This release could have been more amazing, but the most charitable thing I can say is they've invested in architecture this time around, setting up for the next one to be more impressive, whereas this one had too much change to also manage a crazy performance win vs AMD/Apple. Less charitable is to say they had to reinvent their whole tech stack just to keep up/tread water near where AMD/Apple are... I'm glad to see them take a slow/measured approach if it sets them up for success in the future, but "the future" can't always be years away. I do hope there is some dividends paid for all this when Arrow Lake and beyond come out.
Also, if they refresh Alder Lake/Raptor Lake an additional time, I think I'm going to cry. Please, Intel stop refreshing that gen beyond this point! No more! I know it's silly, but with how much they're promising to "revolutionize" all their stuff, seeing them put out kind of the same thing three times between then and now before finally launching Meteor Lake is a bit maddening.
Thanks. Josh. Simplify product stack = Customer is not confused = Profits lost. No going to happen soon with intel. Apple is selling end product laptop = different circumstances
Great test and summary
1:05 lol where are you looking at in this frame
josh please which one i must choose between.. MacBook Pro 14 m3 16 GB 512ssd or MacBook Pro 16 m1 max 32gb 1to ????
They are totally different laptops and I don't know your use case. One is portable, the other large. You need to decide
@@JustJoshTech longevity ?
Great reality check with specifics - thx
It's pretty telling when the 7840u, is beating the latest "Ultra" chip by quite a large margin in performance per watt.. Meteor Lake isn't realistically Phoenix's competition. It's going to be competing with Hawk Point, soon to be shipping. A bit worrying.
The Intel Ultra 7 165H outperforms the Ryzen 7 7840u according to Geekbench 6 test scores. The Intel Ultra 7 165U underperforms the Ryzen 7 7840U, especially on the multi-core scores. 9511 vs 11509.
The ARC GPU doesn't have the GPU power of the Radeon 780M (6 vs 8 TFLOPS). Thus, gaming and video/photo editing should be done on an AMD CPU if the laptops doesn't include a Nvidia dedicated GPU.
@@akin242002But this video states Intel ARC Meteor Lake is faster than a 780
@dbod4866 Well they got it confused or flat out wrong. Radeon 780M > Any iGPU from Intel.
Intel's external GPUs are better, but for the price, might as well get an older Nvidia 3000s series GPU.
@@akin242002yes in this video it shows the ARC almost twice as fast as 780.
Are these benchmarks done on battery or plugged?
stability is the key here for business. lots of headaches with amd platform.
Which bios for the Asus zenbook. Apparently Intel fucked up with the release firmware. 10% uplift on the new bios according to other sources
Would be interested in a similar review for the Qualcomm X Elite which seems to move the Windows platform in the direction of the Apple M Series processors. I think when they launch later this year, they will bring M1 (maybe M2) level devices to Windows which could start to bring better battery life / performance to fanless designs that stay cool. I expect AMD will still be best in 2024, but hope Qualcomm starts to bring the experience benefits they have to phones to the laptop market.
Yea I generally agree but man amd availability is their weakness. They cant get the needed volume to OEMs which sucks for us interested in amd options
“AI” is the new 3D.
the chip wil build on 2 nm prosesor there the geting the perfomance winst in
I think it looks great. Almost a best of all worlds at least in Windows world. Best IGP in Windows, lower substrate idle power than AMD, almost the same single core performance as Intel last gen but at much better efficiency, better multicore and efficiency, the LP-E cores for idle parking, and this is before the new AI features. Not matching Apple performance per watt yet, but that's what Royal Core is for.
I think it will truly be a best of all world in Linux world. Windows is just so messed up nowadays, a complete mess, full of bloatware, spyware and a constantly lagging outdated scheduler. Intel wouldn't have had to create Thread Director for Linux. Neither AMD have the normal chiplet + 3Dcache chiplet problems.
Hold Ur horses it's the very first iteration
so was M1
Why you compare mtl vs m3 pro and max and not M3 ? Max and pro are comparable to HX intel and not MTL
Thats not true. Sorry. The Meteor Lake processor we have is a replacement to the 13700H. That is around M3 Pro. M3 base is more of a U series competitor as its Apple's lowest model.
WTH, Josh I just got an Asus Zenbook 14X (Q420) the one with the i7-13700H but only integrated graphics card 4 days ago because of your recommendation. I had been making the decision to get this for 2 months and now there's a new Asus Zenbook 14 with the new Intel ultra chip just few days after I got this one. When is this new laptop gonna be available for the consumers? I think I made the wrong timing especially I also want to do medium gaming on a laptop but I don't want to compromise the display, portability, and the design. The display is my most favorite part in this Asus Zenbook 14 lineup becuase it is just so good AAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHH I'm feeling the regrets :
You did not. If you followed my suggestion you bought your 14x for $700 on sale. This new one is about $1200.
@@JustJoshTech ooohhhhh I guess I really did not. I actually got it for $899 but I think it's still very very worth it. My best purchase so far. really thank you for helping me, Josh!
@@jsteve_15 The difference is generations are not substantive, and in your case, the cost saving was a good choice.
The Zenbook should have been compared to the Air, which is closer in price. A M3 Pro or Max is not a fair comparison. The person in the market for the Zenbook in this video will not cross shop a MacBook Pro. They might cross shop an Air though. The price difference is too great. It really isn't fair to compare a $1,300 laptop vs twice as expensive or more MacBook Pro (price will depend on the type of Pro or Max chip used)?
We will conpare with both in our full review of it. This was more about the H series meteor lake chip. The U series would be a competitor to the Air.
As a feedback, you should test actual games to conclude the performance of the new iGPU. Running 3D Mark is a poor representation of actual performance.
I agree. We were a little short of time due to a trip we had to do. Not trying to excuse it. We will improve in the future
Intel is going for efficiency as AI eats power, it's a play to get enterprise market share back. The big gains should be in their server line I suspect.
I honestly don't know what's going on with their marketing and management team. Instead of confusing the naming of the lineup and using 13th Gen still, they should've:
1) Made the entire lineup 14th Gen architecture wise
2) Branded the U series as the Intel "Core" series, and the H series as Intel "Core Ultra", simplifying the lineup immensely
3) Should've released the H series later on in January to let it improve even more, basically opposite of what they did
I want Intel to really bring the fight to Apple since AMD powered laptops are unfortunately not as easily available for most
Meteor lake are only rebranded Raptor lake and 155h have 2 threads more
why does most last year laptops use intel if it sucks in power and efficiency?