The only part missing to make this concrete would be if Sabin had hinted that Bannon was Duncan. Like when they first meet having Sabin say something like, "Duncan?!" and go through the explanation of, "Oh, you have me confused with someone else..." It is fun to think about!
That would a fantastic nod to it all being true, but alas that’s the nature of theorizing! I plan on doing a lot of these deeper dives into the series but they just take so long to make! Thank you so much for commenting!
Banon and the Returners are in Vector following the Esper attack and peace conference. I think that's the last time you see him, implying that Gestahl had him killed while you're running around Thamasa.
This sounds likely but your entire team escaped (not including locke celes and terra) when Edgar (can't recall his new name basically the king of figaro) told all your guys to GTFO of Vector cause the empire was traitorous and he learned this from a random girl he seduced. I can't imagine him just ignoring Banon and the returners or maybe he used them as cover to run away more effictively? Or he just did not have the time?
The problem I have with the theory that Duncan is Banon is that it raises a lot more questions than it answers. For one, why doesn't Sabin recognize him or at least point out that there's an uncanny resemblance between Banon and Duncan? Why would Duncan even need to conceal his identity in the first place and why didn't he recruit Sabin and Vargas into the Returners? Strangely, everyone seems to overlook the most (and in my opinion only) compelling piece of evidence that Banon and Duncan are one and the same, that being that Sabin knew the Returners' hideout was located in the Sabil mountains.
This is interesting, and I’ve definitely seen a few people point to Sabin not recognizing him. I mean it’s all only speculation really, especially considering this: if Edgar was in the Returners, and Banon knew Edgar had a ‘bear’ of a brother, then would Banon figure that the best way to recruit Sabin would have his brother ultimately ask, which more or less ends up happening in Mt. Koltz. And as far as Vargas goes, eh.. a one Pummel death? Kinda has Siegfried Syndrome. A weak link - he clearly was power hungry and attempted to kill an entire group of people because his dad snubbed him.
@@TheReturnersHideout We don't know what Duncan's appearance was prior to his disappearance. It's entirely possible Sabin might not recognize him because of that effect that is similar to people not recognizing that Clark Kent is Superman.
Unfortunately if this was the case Sabin would have recognised him immediately and he never does. He always refers to both of them as 2 different people. Banon died in Vector while the crew was escaping. Cyan tells Locke "We Barely escaped" if it wasn't for Edgar flirting with the bard maid. So I want to assume that everyone was trying to escape and Banon ends up dying with Arvis and the rest of The Returners.
See while your logic is strong through out, it has thrown my crazy theory in the bin lol. I always thought Bannon was gogo in the world of ruin. Bannon goes missing after the world turns to ruin when the heros fail, blaming himself for being fooled and tricked when victory was so close at hand with the returners and heroes working together. If Bannon has stopped kefkas and the emperor from moving after the heros were distracted it would have went differently. So now in hiding from the rest of the world he trains in secret to be the perfect ally for the heros he once fought beside. Only to found later as Gogo the mimic who stays silent as to remain hidden to the world traveling heros. Oh and I would like to point out that while the spell mimic is basically the same, Gogo's does this naturally and efficient to mimic everyone's moves day one. Which to me says he already knew them in the world of balance.
Except that Sabin doesn't recognize him, le biggest problem for me is that Banon has no particular fighting abilities except healing... I don't imagine Banon teaching Blitz technics to Sabin with is lack of strenght and stamina...
Awesome video, I'm convinced! I never made those connections, but makes sense with the Gerard and Edgar palate swap. This game was an integral part of my childhood, would not be the same person without this game, thank you for taking the time to make this content.
Banon, Gestahl and Duncan= Brothers. Banon and Duncan were ousted when Gestahl started the push towards magitek. They didn't agree with the pursuit of magic, and the ramping of the war machine. They fled and trained soldiers to eventually fight the incoming war.
@@TheReturnersHideout I mean think about it. Two outcast brothers seeking to protect the world against the third. One a healer that organizes the resistance, one a warrior that trains elite fighters. Could it be, just by happenstance both end up training/recruiting royal brothers? I'm guessing they both went with the envoy to Figaro castle, and then abandoned their positions after the deplorable poisoning of King Figaro. I wonder how Duncan would have to responded when the team kills Dadaluma, who was also Duncan trained, and sent to protect the espers that escaped the facility.
At the very least, I believe Banon and Duncan are brothers. Banon took on the more intellectual path, being more a leader than a fighter and coming up with the plans for the rebellion against the empire. Duncan took the more physical strength path, training himself and his pupils to be able to fight against the empire. The two being brothers would also parallel Edgar and Sabin too well - Edgar the quick-witted mechanically inclined brother mentored by Banon and Sabin the muscle-bound bear trained by Duncan.
For whatever reason in the middle of a workout I came to a pretty firm conclusion that: When Sabin initially ran away, Edgar sent Banon to watch over Sabin, disguising himself as the alter-ego Duncan because Sabin wouldn't want anything to do with him if he was linked to his brother. Potentially living a double-life as the head of the Returners and as a monk, and the fact that Banon and Sabin have healing powers that don't use MP. I'm also kind of toying around with the idea that Relm and Gau are related somehow considering that both of their powers involves imitating enemies and attacking them with their own moves in some fashion and similar hair color/age. (I'm aware his hair is green in the art, but not in the sprite form at least on the SNES version)
@@TheReturnersHideout I know it pretty much echoes things you already mentioned, but it at least answers the "why" aspect of the situation. Also I don't recall if the Returners were properly defeated or not before the World of Ruin. I'm guessing there's a lot that was left open-ended that they could have intended to elaborate on if they had more development time. One question I can't answer is why Banon isn't much stronger as a party member but maybe that's because he isn't proficient at using a staff vs. monk abilities. Sorry I'm just excited to finally connect dots that I can't immediately dismiss for once lol.
@@TheReturnersHideout hold up. Both Relm and Gau's mothers are deceased, and you find Shadow outside the house of the crazy old man connected to Gau. Relm isn't really Strago's granddaughter. Aaaaand lastly there's 3 momento rings in the game, one of which Wrexsoul has, and is a being formed out of souls from the War of the Magi. While I get that it was 1000 years ago, but why wouldn't it seek out other souls? Doma is relatively close to the old man's house. Do we know how Relm's mother passed away? Ok maybe I'm going a little too far out there on this. It's just interesting that they both have deceased mothers that we have very little info on, and Shadow can join the party outside the old man's house. Maybe the old man is telling the truth that Gau isn't his son and his "wife" was pregnant by Shadow. Perhaps before he had Interceptor, 3 years before Relm was born. I know the old man throws Gau into the Veldt but I can't imagine he did that with him as an infant, how could an infant exhibit the undesired behavior the old man described? Let alone survive outside.
Another point you could use. Someone might argue if Bannon is actually Duncan wouldn't have sabin recognized him? But in the world of ruin, Sabin doesn't even recognize his own brother with a pallet swap. It just goes to show Sabine is really bad with remembering faces and voices and other mannerisms.
That argument has been made to me! And my response is usually "he didn't even recognize Edgar until after the Vargas fight, so I don't know if I trust that guy anyway" lol, but yes that's a solid point too!
In Sabin's defense, the palate swap is for the viewer; the disguise I'm sure was a lot more elaborate if you were in the game? in addition, I dont think Sabin was very intelligent to begin with, Edgar was the smarts in the fam, he was an Engineer. Sabin was the brawn, physically gifted but maybe not so bright. Duncan would have kept his identity secret to protect those he cared about.
Duncan is like Batman. By day he is the glorious leader of the returner, a great healer who leads the people to liberty. By night he is the crusher of skulls the actual chuck norris of the universe. He could afford to play around when he trained a bunch of losers in world of light but in world of ruins batman had to come out and now he is Duncan full time.
Isn't mount colts mount zozo? Also I don't think the theory works cuz banon is super weak, and he even dies when he is downed. Wouldn't someone who trains martial arts not be dead when downed? And why would he hide this from sabin?
@@orlandoalessandrini2505 It's definitely hard to top those two for sure! Maybe one day I'll talk about my actual top 5 and my own story with the games!
Does this mean that the "Health" move is technically a Blitz? Like "Mantra" ?? I mean... it does not cost any MP to use, and it does not deplete your potion and tonic supplies like Edward's "Medicine" in FFII/IV !!
@@TheReturnersHideout great video, thanks for posting! The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I remember if you go back to Duncan's house and speak to him again after learning Bum-rush, he "hacks and wheezes," insinuating he might be battling an illness... Banon as a playable character is weak and frail! This might indicate the reason why he lost all of his Blitzes of his younger years and could only retain the one mysterious and elusive "Health" to keep himself alive.
I always saw it as duncsn was dead, and after the world ended bannon was mistaken for duncan. With no where else to go he took on the persona of duncan, he impersonates the dead man, taking up his life and training. He even keeps up the act when the party comes knocking. And yes, sabin would never tell lol
He was left alone In vector....alone. He got one shot by anything bigger than 1 pixel and hasnt saved since lete river ;)so my guess. He spawned at the save point before ultros alone at the same level he was when we left em in narshe. Cause of death....took one look at that raft turned his SNES never to return...ers
Gogo is Baram, he floated to Triangle Island and lived there with the Intangir until the world of Ruin. Baram: I'm gonna be Gogo, shhhhh don't tell anyone. Intangir: Yes master.
He didn't die, since the world was changed, there is no need for The Returners, so Banon assumed the role of Duncan, and taught Sabin the Bum Rush to smash Kefka.
"Bum rush it'll forever be..."
Me: "You damn right!"
Bum Rush sounds WAY more aggressive, and frankly cooler, than Phantom Rush!
Also, you SUPLEX trains, not "meteor strike"....
The only part missing to make this concrete would be if Sabin had hinted that Bannon was Duncan. Like when they first meet having Sabin say something like, "Duncan?!" and go through the explanation of, "Oh, you have me confused with someone else..." It is fun to think about!
That would a fantastic nod to it all being true, but alas that’s the nature of theorizing! I plan on doing a lot of these deeper dives into the series but they just take so long to make! Thank you so much for commenting!
Plot Twist: Sabin knows.
He claimed ultimate power and became Banondorf
HAHA, dude I love this - A+ comment! Well done!
Banon and the Returners are in Vector following the Esper attack and peace conference. I think that's the last time you see him, implying that Gestahl had him killed while you're running around Thamasa.
This is exactly what happened
This sounds likely but your entire team escaped (not including locke celes and terra) when Edgar (can't recall his new name basically the king of figaro) told all your guys to GTFO of Vector cause the empire was traitorous and he learned this from a random girl he seduced.
I can't imagine him just ignoring Banon and the returners or maybe he used them as cover to run away more effictively? Or he just did not have the time?
The South Figaro newspaper clipping is a nice touch. I paused the video to read it, and then I did subscribe. Well played.
I've never even thought about this topic. Great video man! I am watching your entire catalog currently. You rock!
Oh my gosh thank you so much! That means a ton, I’m going to do another livestream Sunday at 2pm Central if you wanna pop in and say hello!
@@TheReturnersHideout If i remember I'll jump on, bro. Busy this time of year preparing for the Spring rush! Cheers man!
No pressure my friend! More content coming soon! Thank you so much
The problem I have with the theory that Duncan is Banon is that it raises a lot more questions than it answers. For one, why doesn't Sabin recognize him or at least point out that there's an uncanny resemblance between Banon and Duncan? Why would Duncan even need to conceal his identity in the first place and why didn't he recruit Sabin and Vargas into the Returners?
Strangely, everyone seems to overlook the most (and in my opinion only) compelling piece of evidence that Banon and Duncan are one and the same, that being that Sabin knew the Returners' hideout was located in the Sabil mountains.
This is interesting, and I’ve definitely seen a few people point to Sabin not recognizing him. I mean it’s all only speculation really, especially considering this: if Edgar was in the Returners, and Banon knew Edgar had a ‘bear’ of a brother, then would Banon figure that the best way to recruit Sabin would have his brother ultimately ask, which more or less ends up happening in Mt. Koltz.
And as far as Vargas goes, eh.. a one Pummel death? Kinda has Siegfried Syndrome. A weak link - he clearly was power hungry and attempted to kill an entire group of people because his dad snubbed him.
@@TheReturnersHideout We don't know what Duncan's appearance was prior to his disappearance. It's entirely possible Sabin might not recognize him because of that effect that is similar to people not recognizing that Clark Kent is Superman.
I always just assumed that Bannon was among the survivors that Cid ate on the island while Celes had her long coma.
Excellent content! Super stoked to check out the rest of your videos - subscribed!
Thank you so much!
Unfortunately if this was the case Sabin would have recognised him immediately and he never does. He always refers to both of them as 2 different people. Banon died in Vector while the crew was escaping. Cyan tells Locke "We Barely escaped" if it wasn't for Edgar flirting with the bard maid. So I want to assume that everyone was trying to escape and Banon ends up dying with Arvis and the rest of The Returners.
See while your logic is strong through out, it has thrown my crazy theory in the bin lol.
I always thought Bannon was gogo in the world of ruin. Bannon goes missing after the world turns to ruin when the heros fail, blaming himself for being fooled and tricked when victory was so close at hand with the returners and heroes working together. If Bannon has stopped kefkas and the emperor from moving after the heros were distracted it would have went differently. So now in hiding from the rest of the world he trains in secret to be the perfect ally for the heros he once fought beside. Only to found later as Gogo the mimic who stays silent as to remain hidden to the world traveling heros. Oh and I would like to point out that while the spell mimic is basically the same, Gogo's does this naturally and efficient to mimic everyone's moves day one. Which to me says he already knew them in the world of balance.
Except that Sabin doesn't recognize him, le biggest problem for me is that Banon has no particular fighting abilities except healing... I don't imagine Banon teaching Blitz technics to Sabin with is lack of strenght and stamina...
Awesome video, I'm convinced! I never made those connections, but makes sense with the Gerard and Edgar palate swap. This game was an integral part of my childhood, would not be the same person without this game, thank you for taking the time to make this content.
Hey thanks so much Chozen! I’ve got more stuff coming (it’s taking a lot longer than I thought but it’s on the way lol)
@@TheReturnersHideout keep it comin brother fun stuff!
Banon, Gestahl and Duncan= Brothers. Banon and Duncan were ousted when Gestahl started the push towards magitek.
They didn't agree with the pursuit of magic, and the ramping of the war machine. They fled and trained soldiers to eventually fight the incoming war.
Well, my whole weekend will be researching this idea. Thank you?
@@TheReturnersHideout
I mean think about it. Two outcast brothers seeking to protect the world against the third.
One a healer that organizes the resistance, one a warrior that trains elite fighters.
Could it be, just by happenstance both end up training/recruiting royal brothers?
I'm guessing they both went with the envoy to Figaro castle, and then abandoned their positions after the deplorable poisoning of King Figaro.
I wonder how Duncan would have to responded when the team kills Dadaluma, who was also Duncan trained, and sent to protect the espers that escaped the facility.
At the very least, I believe Banon and Duncan are brothers. Banon took on the more intellectual path, being more a leader than a fighter and coming up with the plans for the rebellion against the empire. Duncan took the more physical strength path, training himself and his pupils to be able to fight against the empire. The two being brothers would also parallel Edgar and Sabin too well - Edgar the quick-witted mechanically inclined brother mentored by Banon and Sabin the muscle-bound bear trained by Duncan.
For whatever reason in the middle of a workout I came to a pretty firm conclusion that:
When Sabin initially ran away, Edgar sent Banon to watch over Sabin, disguising himself as the alter-ego Duncan because Sabin wouldn't want anything to do with him if he was linked to his brother. Potentially living a double-life as the head of the Returners and as a monk, and the fact that Banon and Sabin have healing powers that don't use MP.
I'm also kind of toying around with the idea that Relm and Gau are related somehow considering that both of their powers involves imitating enemies and attacking them with their own moves in some fashion and similar hair color/age. (I'm aware his hair is green in the art, but not in the sprite form at least on the SNES version)
I love this! I might have to make another follow up!!
@@TheReturnersHideout I know it pretty much echoes things you already mentioned, but it at least answers the "why" aspect of the situation.
Also I don't recall if the Returners were properly defeated or not before the World of Ruin.
I'm guessing there's a lot that was left open-ended that they could have intended to elaborate on if they had more development time.
One question I can't answer is why Banon isn't much stronger as a party member but maybe that's because he isn't proficient at using a staff vs. monk abilities.
Sorry I'm just excited to finally connect dots that I can't immediately dismiss for once lol.
@@TheReturnersHideout hold up. Both Relm and Gau's mothers are deceased, and you find Shadow outside the house of the crazy old man connected to Gau. Relm isn't really Strago's granddaughter. Aaaaand lastly there's 3 momento rings in the game, one of which Wrexsoul has, and is a being formed out of souls from the War of the Magi. While I get that it was 1000 years ago, but why wouldn't it seek out other souls? Doma is relatively close to the old man's house. Do we know how Relm's mother passed away?
Ok maybe I'm going a little too far out there on this. It's just interesting that they both have deceased mothers that we have very little info on, and Shadow can join the party outside the old man's house. Maybe the old man is telling the truth that Gau isn't his son and his "wife" was pregnant by Shadow. Perhaps before he had Interceptor, 3 years before Relm was born. I know the old man throws Gau into the Veldt but I can't imagine he did that with him as an infant, how could an infant exhibit the undesired behavior the old man described? Let alone survive outside.
Weird, I was just asking this question on stream last night and this video pops up.
I hope the video at least helped with that question! I’d like to dive into it a bit more and offer up more possibilities!
Another point you could use. Someone might argue if Bannon is actually Duncan wouldn't have sabin recognized him? But in the world of ruin, Sabin doesn't even recognize his own brother with a pallet swap. It just goes to show Sabine is really bad with remembering faces and voices and other mannerisms.
That argument has been made to me! And my response is usually "he didn't even recognize Edgar until after the Vargas fight, so I don't know if I trust that guy anyway" lol, but yes that's a solid point too!
In Sabin's defense, the palate swap is for the viewer; the disguise I'm sure was a lot more elaborate if you were in the game? in addition, I dont think Sabin was very intelligent to begin with, Edgar was the smarts in the fam, he was an Engineer. Sabin was the brawn, physically gifted but maybe not so bright. Duncan would have kept his identity secret to protect those he cared about.
Duncan is like Batman. By day he is the glorious leader of the returner, a great healer who leads the people to liberty.
By night he is the crusher of skulls the actual chuck norris of the universe.
He could afford to play around when he trained a bunch of losers in world of light but in world of ruins batman had to come out and now he is Duncan full time.
All these decades I unconsciously thought they were the same person.
I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that Banon was killed after the events of the esper cave. Also Duncan may be Banon's brother
I never thought this and I'm so mad I never noticed. I'm convinced, Duncan is Banon!!! :O
Isn't mount colts mount zozo?
Also I don't think the theory works cuz banon is super weak, and he even dies when he is downed.
Wouldn't someone who trains martial arts not be dead when downed?
And why would he hide this from sabin?
I always thought duncan and Banon were the same person somehow
Bum Rush 4EVAR 😂❤🎉
**edit: liked and subscribed - I see you are a man of culture and a fellow gentleman. Huzzah!! 🧐👏 😏
Damn, that actually makes sense dude.
I thought so too! I’m really wanting to get into more things like this but they just take time to make!
@@TheReturnersHideout I hear you. I actually wrote a script for the game and ff4. These games will never be surpassed.
@@orlandoalessandrini2505 It's definitely hard to top those two for sure! Maybe one day I'll talk about my actual top 5 and my own story with the games!
Does this mean that the "Health" move is technically a Blitz? Like "Mantra" ?? I mean... it does not cost any MP to use, and it does not deplete your potion and tonic supplies like Edward's "Medicine" in FFII/IV !!
I mean, I really think you’re onto something there! That’s a really solid point! Thank you so much for commenting!
@@TheReturnersHideout great video, thanks for posting! The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I remember if you go back to Duncan's house and speak to him again after learning Bum-rush, he "hacks and wheezes," insinuating he might be battling an illness... Banon as a playable character is weak and frail! This might indicate the reason why he lost all of his Blitzes of his younger years and could only retain the one mysterious and elusive "Health" to keep himself alive.
@@barkingtree88 So you are saying he is like a worse off Toki from FOTNS?
He's Gogo. I said this on a different video.
Nice edit, well explain. instance subscribe!
Thank you so much!
I always saw it as duncsn was dead, and after the world ended bannon was mistaken for duncan. With no where else to go he took on the persona of duncan, he impersonates the dead man, taking up his life and training. He even keeps up the act when the party comes knocking. And yes, sabin would never tell lol
maybe gogo is banon or that duncan and banon are twins?
THIS is interesting. I'm revisiting Gogo in the very near future! Thank you so much!
Is there a way to get a working kefka code for snes and ps1 without freezing the games please and thank you
He was left alone In vector....alone.
He got one shot by anything bigger than 1 pixel and hasnt saved since lete river ;)so my guess. He spawned at the save point before ultros alone at the same level he was when we left em in narshe. Cause of death....took one look at that raft turned his SNES never to return...ers
Of Course!
Bannon is Duncan!
Gogo is Daryl!
Mi casa is su casa!
I’ve got a Gogo theory in mind actually!
Gogo is Baram, he floated to Triangle Island and lived there with the Intangir until the world of Ruin.
Baram: I'm gonna be Gogo, shhhhh don't tell anyone.
Intangir: Yes master.
I think you are Banon and Duncan 😎
you said duncan so many times that i misinterpret it as dunkin donuts
s u b l i m i n a l
Bum Rush Forever
bum rush forever
he died during world ending
He didn't die, since the world was changed, there is no need for The Returners, so Banon assumed the role of Duncan, and taught Sabin the Bum Rush to smash Kefka.
+
=
Haven't you ever noticed that FF6 Banon looks like Donald Trump's goon Steve Bannon?
WITH AN EXTRA N TO CONCEAL IDENTITY!?
He was killed shortly before the floating continent