Here I am in 2023 looking at sub 250 builds and the Outlaw isn't even on Rotor Riot's website. The 2Fiddy is still available in both frame kit and BNF. At $60 the frame kit seems very reasonable.
2fiddy is still one of my favorite quads to fly daily. Purchased 1 BNF very early on, built a 2nd last month, and am waiting on the colored carbon frames to build 2 more with slightly bigger motors.
The caddx vista corner screws are actually spaced in a 25x25mm pattern. You can mount it on a 25mm stack if you take out the heat-sink retaining screws and mount the stack using M 1.6 screws. It's weird but iFlight does it in some of their whoops.
Right on. I tend to use a longer screw than needed, or a shorter screw than needed. Somehow, I manage to get something that Flys. Not very good, but I'm an old hillbilly Hippie, so I do everything by eye. Lol The dremel don't care about standards.☻️😎🤣
One’s heavily engineered lightness while the other is brute force lightness. I kinda think replaceable arms is worth it alone, specially for a free style frame, tho that price difference is large.
agree that interchangeable arms (or lack thereof) is a dealbreaker. Both frames are thin by necessity; both will break, 2fiddy will require a lot less work when an arm inevitably does break. Broke arms on my all-in-one frame too many times to convince me otherwise.
The Outlaw is a pretty ironic name for a frame built around regulation compliance....Great comparison between the two frames/builds. I really dig the look of the 2fiddy but still don't think I'd build a 250g 5" cause I just love my 5 inchers chunky.
Shocker! Can’t believe another frame is more sophisticated than a RR frame. lol. They may fly ok but all their frames seem rushed and uninspiring IMHO. I’d go 2fiddy without a thought over Outlaw.
Fantastic flying and review, Joshua! 😃 You know... I've been thinking about drawing some frames... (I just need a new computer and table 😬 - but soon!) And, I don't know, but I think I'm going to start with a sub 250 5". 😃 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I love my iflight Chimera4 Xframe kwads layout and 3d printed TPU parts for holding GPS, Rx and antennas, vtx antenna, camera and motor mount screws protectors. Haven't broke an arm yet and it flies great with the 3800Kv motors on 4S. Gonna try the deadcat frame next.
Just to clarify that's not the the Runcam Racer that's the the original Runcam HD Nano if I had to take a guess. The Runcam HDZero Micro is out of stock and they are working on a V2. The Runcam HDZero nano is in stock in various stores though.
I just built a Toothfairy. Alas, I didn't go light on the selected components and it came out just under 210g without battery. Careful selection of parts might knock 30g off without too much difficulty. I did select this frame to build an ultra-light 5" but not shooting for the 250 mark. It came out about the weight that I was shooting for. I only have a few packs through it and have only pushed P&D up a bit from Betaflight defaults but so far I think that it flies pretty damn good. It is very efficient and I get good long flights on a 4s850 pack. I would love to see a Bardwell build of this frame as I really do like the frame. A little fiddly to build but really sturdy for a light frame.
I fly the Outlaw for a view months and I can say it flyes amazing! Resonance charactaristics is suprisingly great. In my opinion the arm design is not the best looking but brilliant in function. It is narrow close to the motors and gets wider to the other end with clever bottom plate design. Probably that design is the reason for the good vibration characterristics. Very low filtering and high PIDs is no problem: I fly Low pass filters off, dynamic d-term filters off, only rpm filter and one biquad d-term filter. According to the recommondations form Chris Rosser I would recommend not to use wider motors than 2004 but higher shapes like 1606 motors and similar KV. They have more torque, are more responsive and all in all more powerful.
Oh yeah. I dont think I have ever told anyone my trick. For wire protection, I use a piece of water tubing, probably meant for a fish tank, and slice it in half longways with a box knife and zip tie that over the wires on the arm. Works awesome.
I have the outlaw lol I do love the thing didn't expect to. To me it actually help me fly my regular 5 inch better I can do moves with it instinctly that I had trouble doing with a regular 5 inch and afterward it started happening with my source one too I fly both back to back now
Hey Josh I happen to really like the Roto Riot quad, but for analog. I just like the thicker arms, but the 2fiddy for more protection. I don't care much for the 2004 motors, I have had bad luck with them. Thanks for the information on these two quads.
With all of the added flexibility of the 2-fiddy (20, 25, & 30mm stack support! & a big ass vTx/rx booty) - I’m thinking if you’re building, 2fiddy all the way but if BNFs your thing, RotorRiot outlaw all the way. Note there’s likely conformational bias here as I have 2 2-fiddles in a box I need to build up 🤷♂️
A thought about resonance: you could make the argument that with so many more parts, it's more likely that something on the Ummagawd might loosen up and start vibrating. But yeah, Tommy's frames are beautiful.
@@pgabrieli nailed it! I really was into so RR early on, but talking about shilling…those guys are more about money than they are about fpv. Lost a lot of respect for the entire crew.
21mm would be better for 4in, instead 23 for 5in. Heck, if you want a frame for it let me know I have a pretty sweet design I’m working on. The 2fiddy definitely feels like a current gen frame, vs the outlaw which feels like a 2018esq type of frame.
I think the 2fiddy is closer to worth it than not. To know that it was handbuilt by the guy that came up with it makes it special, given how busy he already is.
You should build two quads another 2fiddy and another RR. But build them with the HDzero cam and the bigger motors same FC/VTX. And then do side by side
Joshua, hearing you talk a lot about resonance problems in this episode has me wanting to share an idea I've had for a long time, but I don't really have the resources to test out. Let me know if you want to talk about it, you have the influence in the community to actually make something of it if it works :P
Crazy, did you build the frame wrong or did I? How do you change the arms when they break, you have the bolts going down to the x plate? Do you have to remove the motors and AIO? All my bolts come from the bottom, very easy to remove arms when they break. Now I wonder if I did it wrong🤔
I think part of the higher cost for the 2fiddy is all the thought that went into the design and development (Yes I was sold on his videos lol). Anyways to save some money, I bought his build kit and built it myself, and I love it!!! I'm running the 4s motors sometimes going with either a GNB 650 4s LiHV or GNB 720 4s LiHV lipos, annnd the weight is exactly.... 2FIDDY grams. Right on the money! (I have Caddx Polar + Crossfire too)
Being the 2fiddy needs a new motor. And is the better looking design.I would put the 21mm on the 2fiddy. Also please let us know the difference in moving up to the 21mm. Thanks ✌️😎
hey i just bought the halo rc archon v3, bit shocked at how much better it fly's than my old frame, i fly mostly cinematic and i think this might be the optimal frame for freestyle/cinematics. which is something i think a lot of people are looking for lately.
Josh I was wondering what do you think is the best RPM filtering ESC protocol for most of your all-in-one boards ? Jesc or Bluejay or Jazz Maverick.? Just wondering what your opinion is ?
Volume is totally dependent on propeller type, tho since resonance is theoretically lower on multi-piece quads, off of recommended setups the 2fiddy would be quietest of these two in video
Ummagawd 250 kawd may certainly be the stout of two and I like it over the Rotor Riot! But in all seriousness at that price or anywhere even near it, it requires an individual whos income is such where you don't worry about crashing. I know few persons today who will drop the money some manufacturers are currently commanding, let alone go out and then fly it like you stole it. It's clearly becoming a cost vs pleasure equation of fiscal responsibility and I sincerely see the handwriting on the wall. Other hobbies have tripped on their shoelaces in price the equation, I hope it turns around. AND YES, I would Motor UP the 250 first, but also re motor the Rotor Riot sled.
Didn't even know rotor riot made a sub 250g 5".. like.. what? Could rotor riot mount the Vista under the stack, allowing the 25 × 25 mounting screws to go over the Vista, although i assume there could be thermal difficulties that may come about.. now I wanna go look.. but ill wait, 2 help your analytics.. #JBanalytics1ST
I like the Outlaw. Not going to buy it unless I see the performance boost from those FPVCycle 21mm motors on it tho ;) Great shootout, Joshua. I always get happier when a JB notification pops up.
Awe.. im too late... Outlaw link: "404 Page Not Found." 😢 (October 2024) It blows living in a small town.. the entire town is a no fly zone, cuz, helipad on hospital... I have to pack up and drive at least ½hr for anywhere of even mild interest... 😅
unloaded 10mins ago on 20mins video already 23 likes.. JB da man I got rekon5 i built using ummagawd motors. i use it lightly as freestyle sometimes.. but afraid to break lol
Jeeze, the single plate will be lighter but is a giant bust when things go wrong... I give this one to Uma... The Uma design is about flying and the RR is about profit... our boy Tommy just wants you to have a good time... I've not flown either of these, just think Uma cares more about what's best for the pilot
Rotor riots version is a clear cash grab. The frame is basic as hell and really not that good looking. The Ummagawd 250 is beautiful and refined. I would gladly pay the extra bit to purchase it.
Here I am in 2023 looking at sub 250 builds and the Outlaw isn't even on Rotor Riot's website. The 2Fiddy is still available in both frame kit and BNF. At $60 the frame kit seems very reasonable.
2fiddy is still one of my favorite quads to fly daily. Purchased 1 BNF very early on, built a 2nd last month, and am waiting on the colored carbon frames to build 2 more with slightly bigger motors.
What motors are you straping in there?
The caddx vista corner screws are actually spaced in a 25x25mm pattern. You can mount it on a 25mm stack if you take out the heat-sink retaining screws and mount the stack using M 1.6 screws. It's weird but iFlight does it in some of their whoops.
Sure I place my vista above the AIOs using M1.6 screws with required height of gummies .I have no problem using the same .
Right on. I tend to use a longer screw than needed, or a shorter screw than needed. Somehow, I manage to get something that Flys. Not very good, but I'm an old hillbilly Hippie, so I do everything by eye. Lol
The dremel don't care about standards.☻️😎🤣
ありがとうございます！
Another great, impartial comparison review. Thank you, Joshua!
The rotor riot frame says 'rotor riot' on it and purchasing it helps support rotor riot so that's going to be a non-starter for alot of people
One’s heavily engineered lightness while the other is brute force lightness. I kinda think replaceable arms is worth it alone, specially for a free style frame, tho that price difference is large.
This is the most accurate description of the two. The outlaw doesn't hold a candle to the 2fiddy
agree that interchangeable arms (or lack thereof) is a dealbreaker. Both frames are thin by necessity; both will break, 2fiddy will require a lot less work when an arm inevitably does break. Broke arms on my all-in-one frame too many times to convince me otherwise.
The Outlaw is a pretty ironic name for a frame built around regulation compliance....Great comparison between the two frames/builds. I really dig the look of the 2fiddy but still don't think I'd build a 250g 5" cause I just love my 5 inchers chunky.
yeah thats why they named it that breh. issa joke
Shocker! Can’t believe another frame is more sophisticated than a RR frame. lol. They may fly ok but all their frames seem rushed and uninspiring IMHO. I’d go 2fiddy without a thought over Outlaw.
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Fuck me 550 dollars, No wonder I would never buy a pre built Quads allways build my own for less than half the price !
agreed! plus it only comes with DJI 👎👎 bought the parts, I’ll build it myself with hdzero or analog
Fantastic flying and review, Joshua! 😃
You know... I've been thinking about drawing some frames... (I just need a new computer and table 😬 - but soon!) And, I don't know, but I think I'm going to start with a sub 250 5". 😃
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I love my iflight Chimera4 Xframe kwads layout and 3d printed TPU parts for holding GPS, Rx and antennas, vtx antenna, camera and motor mount screws protectors. Haven't broke an arm yet and it flies great with the 3800Kv motors on 4S.
Gonna try the deadcat frame next.
Just to clarify that's not the the Runcam Racer that's the the original Runcam HD Nano if I had to take a guess. The Runcam HDZero Micro is out of stock and they are working on a V2. The Runcam HDZero nano is in stock in various stores though.
What about the FPVcycle toothfairy 2?
I just built a Toothfairy. Alas, I didn't go light on the selected components and it came out just under 210g without battery. Careful selection of parts might knock 30g off without too much difficulty. I did select this frame to build an ultra-light 5" but not shooting for the 250 mark. It came out about the weight that I was shooting for. I only have a few packs through it and have only pushed P&D up a bit from Betaflight defaults but so far I think that it flies pretty damn good. It is very efficient and I get good long flights on a 4s850 pack.
I would love to see a Bardwell build of this frame as I really do like the frame. A little fiddly to build but really sturdy for a light frame.
I usually stay to the end maybe because I like the content so most of the time I end up watching it to the very end. Lol 😆
I don't know for sure but I do know that the caddix Vista outside bolt holes the 1.6 mm are set up for a woop board mounting pattern
What kind of tape is that on the 2fiddy arms? I'm a little disappointed it isn't red electrical tape.
What about the HGLRC Rekon 4 or Sector4 ? Thats an amazing sub250 4 inch. Beats the crap out of the smart35. Not Sure how it compares to the 2fiddy
I fly the Outlaw for a view months and I can say it flyes amazing! Resonance charactaristics is suprisingly great.
In my opinion the arm design is not the best looking but brilliant in function. It is narrow close to the motors and gets wider to the other end with clever bottom plate design. Probably that design is the reason for the good vibration characterristics.
Very low filtering and high PIDs is no problem: I fly Low pass filters off, dynamic d-term filters off, only rpm filter and one biquad d-term filter.
According to the recommondations form Chris Rosser I would recommend not to use wider motors than 2004 but higher shapes like 1606 motors and similar KV. They have more torque, are more responsive and all in all more powerful.
how thick is the plate on the outlaw?
Oh yeah. I dont think I have ever told anyone my trick. For wire protection, I use a piece of water tubing, probably meant for a fish tank, and slice it in half longways with a box knife and zip tie that over the wires on the arm. Works awesome.
You can use Sleeve retainer for the shaft and bell, it's like thread locker but for bearing races and shafts
I have the outlaw lol I do love the thing didn't expect to. To me it actually help me fly my regular 5 inch better I can do moves with it instinctly that I had trouble doing with a regular 5 inch and afterward it started happening with my source one too I fly both back to back now
I find the same thing flying my 3"
@@ClintChapman oh good to know it's universal haha
I keep getting glimpses of the new construction. When is the big reveal?
Hey Josh I happen to really like the Roto Riot quad, but for analog. I just like the thicker arms, but the 2fiddy for more protection. I don't care much for the 2004 motors, I have had bad luck with them. Thanks for the information on these two quads.
Hey, you got a solar panels! We need an update in the Liftoff map! 😀
JB, put the 4" arms on the 2Fiddy, fly it with 3.5" props!!! best 3.5" ever! I used 1804 2450 kv motors and the same tune from Tommy. It's amazing!
Interesting. 4s or 6
@@BBSlats 6S ..... I have a video on it called The best 3.5" FPV Quad you cannot buy
@@BBSlats th-cam.com/video/IQaTHvruM1Q/w-d-xo.html
@@661FPV no, he out the 5” 2Fiddy vs GEPRC Smart35
With all of the added flexibility of the 2-fiddy (20, 25, & 30mm stack support! & a big ass vTx/rx booty) - I’m thinking if you’re building, 2fiddy all the way but if BNFs your thing, RotorRiot outlaw all the way. Note there’s likely conformational bias here as I have 2 2-fiddles in a box I need to build up 🤷♂️
2fiddy motors got 3 Bells off, miner branch crashs. Changed to 2004 Brotehrhoby, they are fine till now.
Why is it that the 2fiddy looked smoother? Is it the camera?
New building out in the pasture??
You think these are good?? Try out the Sub250gFPV quads.
A thought about resonance: you could make the argument that with so many more parts, it's more likely that something on the Ummagawd might loosen up and start vibrating.
But yeah, Tommy's frames are beautiful.
so true lol more time goes by more I like mono plate especially sub250
Just saw the first minute of the video and i already know that I like the rotor riot frame.
and that, ladies and gentleman, is the power of marketing :-D
@@pgabrieli nailed it! I really was into so RR early on, but talking about shilling…those guys are more about money than they are about fpv. Lost a lot of respect for the entire crew.
@@GrauFPV indeed
Awesome video as always.
From the flight footage it sure looks like you were a lot more confident flying the 2Fiddy.
21mm would be better for 4in, instead 23 for 5in. Heck, if you want a frame for it let me know I have a pretty sweet design I’m working on. The 2fiddy definitely feels like a current gen frame, vs the outlaw which feels like a 2018esq type of frame.
JB, are you still working for/with RR?
I think the 2fiddy is closer to worth it than not. To know that it was handbuilt by the guy that came up with it makes it special, given how busy he already is.
You should build two quads another 2fiddy and another RR. But build them with the HDzero cam and the bigger motors same FC/VTX. And then do side by side
Joshua, hearing you talk a lot about resonance problems in this episode has me wanting to share an idea I've had for a long time, but I don't really have the resources to test out.
Let me know if you want to talk about it, you have the influence in the community to actually make something of it if it works :P
Crazy, did you build the frame wrong or did I? How do you change the arms when they break, you have the bolts going down to the x plate? Do you have to remove the motors and AIO? All my bolts come from the bottom, very easy to remove arms when they break. Now I wonder if I did it wrong🤔
I did it the other way because I needed a 2 high stack.
I think part of the higher cost for the 2fiddy is all the thought that went into the design and development (Yes I was sold on his videos lol). Anyways to save some money, I bought his build kit and built it myself, and I love it!!! I'm running the 4s motors sometimes going with either a GNB 650 4s LiHV or GNB 720 4s LiHV lipos, annnd the weight is exactly.... 2FIDDY grams. Right on the money! (I have Caddx Polar + Crossfire too)
Being the 2fiddy needs a new motor. And is the better looking design.I would put the 21mm on the 2fiddy. Also please let us know the difference in moving up to the 21mm. Thanks ✌️😎
Yeah those wire protector things shatter. You can put tape over them but then that defeats the purpose. Though they do look nice
I've been waiting for this review to decide which is the "better" quad
hey i just bought the halo rc archon v3, bit shocked at how much better it fly's than my old frame, i fly mostly cinematic and i think this might be the optimal frame for freestyle/cinematics. which is something i think a lot of people are looking for lately.
Put the premium motors on the premium frame
wait who's grudging? Ummagawd or RotorRiot?
Put the FpvCycle 21mm motors on the 2fiddy! Definitely! Optimized frame with optimized motors, that rr frame doesn't deserve those motors!
Is that a motor wire hanging off already?
nice work being fair
Definitely put the 21mm motors on the 2fiddy
Josh I was wondering what do you think is the best RPM filtering ESC protocol for most of your all-in-one boards ? Jesc or Bluejay or Jazz Maverick.? Just wondering what your opinion is ?
BlueJay is what most people I know are choosing, although any can work.
Of the three sub 250 g quads you mentioned, which one is quieter?
Volume is totally dependent on propeller type, tho since resonance is theoretically lower on multi-piece quads, off of recommended setups the 2fiddy would be quietest of these two in video
Surely put the 21mm motor on the Ummagawd 250. That would be full on baller build with the Beast FC.
1100mah 4s and a insta360 go on my 5inch sub 250. Can you say that?
That's impressive. What frame did you use?
Ummagawd 250 kawd may certainly be the stout of two and I like it over the Rotor Riot! But in all seriousness at that price or anywhere even near it, it requires an individual whos income is such where you don't worry about crashing. I know few persons today who will drop the money some manufacturers are currently commanding, let alone go out and then fly it like you stole it. It's clearly becoming a cost vs pleasure equation of fiscal responsibility and I sincerely see the handwriting on the wall. Other hobbies have tripped on their shoelaces in price the equation, I hope it turns around. AND YES, I would Motor UP the 250 first, but also re motor the Rotor Riot sled.
I would looove to see the FPVCycle 21mm motors on the 2Fiddy! after all, you have a busted aerolite, whatcha gonna do? :-)
kinda thought the two fiddy flew sweeter.
Put it on the de-belled 2fiddy! 😁👍
I would be interested in the 21mm on the 2fiddy. It's the heavier build so by inference would work on the outlaw.
I got to meet tommy and ryan in person. they were really really cool.
I love my 2fiddy one of my fav kwads to fly
Didn't even know rotor riot made a sub 250g 5".. like.. what?
Could rotor riot mount the Vista under the stack, allowing the 25 × 25 mounting screws to go over the Vista, although i assume there could be thermal difficulties that may come about.. now I wanna go look.. but ill wait, 2 help your analytics.. #JBanalytics1ST
The cost of the Outlaw surprised me or at least with the discount right now it does. The single bottom plate kills it though.
Put them on the 2fiddy!
Also you should slap on some triblades, even on the 2004 motors it really likes the gemfan sl5130s
I say put the fpv cycle 21mm on the 2fiddy. But I think the audience on your next live stream should decide. 😉
that ending 🤣
I like the Outlaw. Not going to buy it unless I see the performance boost from those FPVCycle 21mm motors on it tho ;) Great shootout, Joshua. I always get happier when a JB notification pops up.
Tommy lives in CA. More expensive costs in CA.
wow, that RR seems like a good price point!
Hate to say it but I kind of like the washed out low contrast look of the runcam nano hd better.
Cycle motors on 2fiddy!!!
Awe.. im too late... Outlaw link: "404 Page Not Found." 😢
(October 2024)
It blows living in a small town.. the entire town is a no fly zone, cuz, helipad on hospital...
I have to pack up and drive at least ½hr for anywhere of even mild interest... 😅
Very good 👍
Why do a lot of people not like rotor riot?
Ask them. I'm sure they're eager to tell you.
unloaded 10mins ago on 20mins video already 23 likes.. JB da man
I got rekon5 i built using ummagawd motors. i use it lightly as freestyle sometimes.. but afraid to break lol
Put new motors on both
550??!!!??? Tomiiiiiii where is the hidden gold? :)))
Fpvcycle motors on the 2fiddy... Already needs motor replacement😜.... And its better🙊🤣🤣🤣👊👊😎💪💪💪
We need more 250's to bypass the FAA or the hobby will tend to dye.
Jhemcu 20x20 aio fc plus esc …
2fiddy all the way. Screw the RR guys
I always hear OMG 2-50 😅
Jeeze, the single plate will be lighter but is a giant bust when things go wrong... I give this one to Uma... The Uma design is about flying and the RR is about profit... our boy Tommy just wants you to have a good time... I've not flown either of these, just think Uma cares more about what's best for the pilot
yeah, the rotor riot quad smells a lot like "we gotta jump on this 250g 5" bandwagon, throw something together quickly"
Well,believe id have to go 23mm motor,450 6s n 250 grams be damned lol
Outlaw.
Nice
almost! :P
why are both so expensive you can buy a full fatboy 5 inch for the same price lol great video
2Fiddy has replaceable arms that should be all that needs to be said
A good comparison! 👌🍻
Rotor riots version is a clear cash grab. The frame is basic as hell and really not that good looking. The Ummagawd 250 is beautiful and refined. I would gladly pay the extra bit to purchase it.
Makes me laugh... Everytime I hear a grown man..... Say awmagaurd 2fiddy
I would say put the fpvcycle motors on ummagawd's frame
Love you JB but please ditch that "hey guys.....I don't know where I am...." outro........😎 Its awful LOL 😁
21mm on the outlaw.. big pass on the 2fiddy
You'd change your mind if you flew the 21mms on the 2fiddy. Outlaw is a dogshit frame.
@@HotboiEngineering lol okay, sure thing
Thanks air 2s army out
I don't care about either quad now.. They are always out of stock!
No comparison. UmmagawdFTW