Why the Surface Laptop Studio 2 fails as a Gaming Laptop - Response Time Issues
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2023
- I hate that this is the case, but there are major drawbacks to the Surface Laptop Studio 2's screen for gaming use cases. The response times are quite frankly.... atrocious.
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I would like to share my solution that fix the SLS2 display response time issues and I noticed a big improvement in fixing ghosting images. Since SLS2 comes with the NVIDIA graphic card, I installed NVIDIA GeForce Experience (to install and update NVIDIA driver) and NVIDIA Control Panel (to fix ghosting issues).
Open NVIDIA Control Panel
'Adjust image settings with preview' -> Select 'Use the advanced 3D image settings'.
Set PhysX Configuration -> Select 'NVIDIA GeForce' instead of Auto-Select.
(I think this is the option that fixes ghosting problems) Manage 3D settings -> in Global-Setting tab -> Select Preferred graphics processor to 'High-performance NVIDIA processor' instead of Auto-Select.
Optionally set Low Latency Mode to Ultra and Max Frame Rate to the amount you prefer (I chose 60FPS),
And after all tweaking click Apply at the bottom right.
I hope this helps.
I see what you're saying. I love my SLS2 and while I primarily use it for productivity and video editing, I do play some games on it from time to time but it's not my main use case for it so for me, the ghosting isn't a deal breaker. You are correct though that if your primary intent in purchasing one is as a gaming laptop, there are other alternatives out there that are better suited for that purpose.
Holy cow... another nail in the coffin...
Thank you, so so much! ❤
Is ghosting/ response time something that only effects video games or would you probably notice it while watching movies, creating 2d art, 3d modeling, etc? someone said they noticed it while programming 💀 loll
- and does this just cancel out the refresh rate? lolll
I love the SLS2. I primarily bought this laptop to apply to school and do some work, but for my free time I plan on gaming. So far everything has been pretty good. The problem I had was the fps. I was averaging 80 frames on Valorant, which for a 4050 on low settings is pretty bad, although I ended up fixing the problem and now average 200ish frames, I haven’t had any other problem. It doesn’t heat up as much as I would expect it too and to me it feels super smooth coming from a ps5 user with a 10 year old TV. Overall I’m pretty satisfied, but I can understand your dissatisfaction.
Yeah, it does almost everything right other than this issue; which is bigger for some people than others.
@@cbutters no its a very very humongous issue when playing even like E-football . the players and ball seems to have a spirit . especially E-football is locked at 60fps , it looks even worse . the 120hz does not help anymore .
@@davidwong7283 For the price, there is zero excuse on this issue. Most laptops progress and fix their errors in version 2 of the model. Microsoft just said to heck with it and gave it a worse screen than the last time.
Go into settings and change power to best performance, have a look at Nvidia panel too and see what that’s on
Would you mind telling me how you fixed your issue? I don't own a SLS2 as of right now, but it would be nice to know what the solution to the issue is when I eventually do get my hands on it.
That really seems like a major downfall for me. I was going to order mine with the 4060 configuration on Monday.. now I don't even know anymore.. do I want to be bound to having to use a second monitor for gaming? I sort of want to do everything anywhere (as long as there is an outlet of course..)I'll probably get It anyways and just look for my self how bad it feels to me. Luckily I am not that spoiled yet as I have ever only played on 60fps monitors anyways. Sometimes even with 30fps as some games like Starfield only run at 30fps on the Xbox Series X and it wasn't an issue for me..
Last time I checked this wasn't a gaming laptop tho so complaining that it doesn't run games the best is weird
Although it runs games pretty good for me but 😂
Have you buyed it with rtx4060?
Do you think that it could be a bug? I feel like a firmware update could solve the issue, some TV screens these days get firmware updates which reduce those issues significantly
It sure could be. There is hope they could update the display firmware to improve things.
FW updates won't fix the type of panel they used
That's true, but there are a lot of ways to drive the panel differently to calibrate for different operating characteristics, overdrive settings, etc. I'm not saying it would fundamentally change, but it isn't impossible it could be improved slightly.
CBUTTERS Tech , you are one of the most honest tech reviewers on this . i own the SSL1 and i 1000000000% agree with you .
Hmm I never noticed this stuff while gaming on my SLS1 😅
Exactly . This tech reviewer did mention that the SLS 2 response time / ghosting is 42% worse than the SLS1 . When I play E-football on sls1 you do see slight ghosting on the players . But acceptable . Also Becos E-football game is locked at 60fps the , 120hz is useless Here to help out .
what do you suggest as a substitute to this laptop? I want to buy a new laptop and I want it to be convertible, with good battery life, and suitable for web browsing and programming.
LG GRAM PRO 360
I own the surface studio laptop 1 ....i agree with u on the ghosting and response time .The SSL2 is a step back overall ....Bulkier , Heavier , Costlier , Screen ghosting is horrible !!!! lucky i bought the SSL1 ...damn i was lucky .
Hi, CB. Microsoft just rolled out some updates for sls2 for yesterday including so called "calibrated panel" and "display hardware". I immediately noticed a shift in color tone of the screen, it's now less warmer than before which I think is an improvement. Sadly the screen responsive time is still terrible as far as I perceive.
BTW I also noticed that gaming with a bluetooth mouse instead of the track pad feels even worse than it already is, does this has to do with the pulling rate of the mouse? I'm using the microsoft precision mouse.
Do not use a bluetooth mouse for gaming
The blurring of the bushes in the part around 7:12 is pretty dramatic. I'm wondering if this is even going to be annoying when just scrolling a document, with the text only becoming sharp when you stop scrolling.
Followup showing some of this: th-cam.com/video/mCwfva3xk2g/w-d-xo.html
The ghosting is the exact same issue I have on my Framework Laptop 13, it's a 2256x1504 3:2 60hz IPS display with close to 100% sRGB (slightly on the warmer color side on mine but good balance overall). If that resolution and aspect ratio looks familiar, it is, being also on the MS Surface lineup albeit a different panel. Its big weakness is the ~30 ms (EDIT: NotebookCheck measured 31.5 BW and 50.4 gtg) response time. Even dragging windows and scrolling through text is a blurry mess.
I really wish Framework would release a quicker response display for their 13", or using OLED or Mini LED, given the laptop's modularity allows for such easy swapping, instead of returning my 13 and splurging for their 16 which has a far superior display in every measurable way.
A shame, considering the AMD Ryzen Framework 13 is a performant and efficient little everyday machine in many ways. The Radeon 780M iGPU in the 7840U can't do modern AAA well, but handles older AAA, most modern indies, and retro emulation up to and including 6th gen consoles like a champ.
What spec did you buy been looking at the 64 gb ram model myself sold out though 🤔
I have 4060 1TB 64GB version.
@cbutters appreciate your reply, that's exactly the same spec I've been thinking of buying 🤔 appreciate your video as not sure now, already have a new macbook I use for editing but wanted something for gaming too. Look forward to seeing any other videos you do on the surface. Cheers
The ghosting was always quite noticeable on the Surface Pros, especially the 5.
It's better on the 8, but it's just sad that their screens are still not good enough, regardless of what pixelsense branding they're claiming. Sad.
Yeah i was so surprised about the 120hz on my SLS1 but playing a rythm game i noticed the huge amount of ghosting
So... built-in motion-blur that can't be disabled.
Nice! /s
What does lowering the screen's refresh-rate do?
I bought it thinking it'd be like the SLS1, and when I saw people showing recordings of that gaming and web browsing etc, it didn't look bad. after receiving mine, it feels terrible and I have serious remorse purchasing this thing. Why would they put such a slow reponse screen on such an expensive laptop? especially one that runs at 120hz? Sure, it'll feel snappy when you move stuff, but it will also be blurry and have trails behind it all...
Yep, I can't believe they've done this. I want this machine so badly, but the screen is completely unacceptable and I can't justify the purchase even if I like almost everything else about it.
Have you found any fixes or know of anything to try? I'm about to send it back, got my shipping labels, but I want to make one last effort to see if there's a way to fix it. I really don't want to return it, but I don't want to put up with the ghosting during web browsing.
The only thing I could think of is to set it to 60Hz instead of 120Hz to reduce the amount of "apparent" blur. but it isn't really doing much.@@KjKase
Nail in the coffin for me. The price was intense for this laptop, but I was willing to buy it. I wanted a single device that would make note taking enjoyable, that I could program on, and that I could game on.
At this price point, that screen is unacceptable. I literally noticed the ghosting in VSCode the other day. It is that bad.
Big bummer. I was eyeing an iPad/Macbook combo, but I really wanted to be able to game and run Linux for other tasks. I think now I'll return this and get an iPad for note taking, and get a lenovo legion I guess for my main laptop (I had a legion from like 5 years ago, but it finally died on me so I bought the SLS2)
For the price, this thing should make coffee and answer your homework. I have read online from others, the response time is 77ms. I cannot even process that.
I checked today. The response time is offiicially 46ms, I my memory serves. I was on a Microsoft chat and could not believe the tech would actually be honest and tell me. What makes this so funny is the Samsung GalaxyBook3 Ultra, has a 1ms response time. I know where I will be spending my money.
I notice the ghosting just scrolling youtube in darkmode, VS code would be the same. I am NOT going to just get used to this and "dealwithit" for the next 3-4 years for almost $5000... No way in hell.
@@KjKase I went ahead and bought a Lenovo Legion Pro 7i. I added a few upgrades, like having 32gb ram, 1TB drive, and went with the 4070. It cost 1200 less than this monstrosity.
What other producitivity focus laptop with at least good or better hardware than surface pro studios? That screen response time is a dealbreaker
Zenbook Pro 14 OLED is very much close to the same spec, and has pen and touch capabilities... it just doesn't transform into a tablet.
Is this something that can be fixed with an update?
So it's hardware issue and not possible patch FW?
honestly at 3K + they should have bumped the total watts upto 190 at least- I'm not asking for anything crazy like 330 watts and at least a 165hz screen
The Ghosting and response times were already average on my SSL1 ....How dare Microsoft do this ??? you are right to describe them as ATROCIOUS
Bro chill fr don't write 20 independent comments please 😂 reply to your own first comment or tap on editing and add the you next comment at the bottom, looks more professional and less like a mad child. No offense, best regards:)
@@toruisalive5499 20 ? i think you are the one who is mad or failed mathematics ...i only wrote 4 . No offense , best regards .
Got myself a Asus z13 4060 edition for 1700 usd on sale and its a beast, pen isn't the best though and I do recommend the latest bios update as it improved battery by alot
What's your battery life like with that update? I'm looking for a laptop that can game good when I want it to but not main priority. I'm trying to decide between these 2 and battery life is a factor too.
@@noblefonz if you put it in battery saver and have Asus centre set to optimised it get actually pre good , but if using the 4060 it empties insanely quick
At 60fps?
Yeah I love the laptop's design and form factor. Everything about it seems like it's not a terrible purchase for the price albeit not the best. While I definitely see myself buying a 3rd Gen model if the display is sharper and possibly oled (or mini-LED because that's fine for my eyes too), I don't think this should be the first thing on people's minds when it comes to gaming. So many better dedicated laptops built for that type of consumer and I don't see the price tag helping that much either, with that being said, you could definitely do worse! Hopefully this helps you decide.
The Ghosting and etc ....has been existent even in the surface studio laptop 1 .
Target market for the SLS is not for gaming, It's for digital art/content creation. Plenty of way more powerful options for less money for gaming. New Legion Slim 5 14in has a 4060, better CPU and is almost $2K cheaper!
I agree, but that still doesn't justify that SLS2's screen worsened from its predecessor 😢
The screens response time is so bad that you notice it just browsing the web in dark mode... I'm so disappointed right now, this thing cost more than all my other tech, yet looks terrible when just scrolling around webpages.
I've had mine since the start, and never noticed this. I don't play games though, so why do I care?
@@live2walk Yep that's what I'm saying. The target market for the SLS is not for gaming anyway. It's for digital art, you shouldn't care.
So, let me ask the obvious question. Based on what you found, should ANYONE purchase this product. I am in need of a quality laptop. Was looking at this machine and the Samsung Galaxy Book3 Ultra (w/32gb ram). Thoughts?
I was just on a call with Microsoft Support. Get this. Microsoft told me the original studio should have around a 4ms response time. I was then told that Studio 2 has a....23ms response time. The person from Microsoft then tried to put forth their best car salesman speech and tech-splain why this was....LOL. I now know which machine I will NOT be purchasing....LOL
Do you plan to game on the built-in screen? Then I likely would be an issue. If not, I suspect it's not a problem. If you do, and they're fast-paced games, things won't look as they could have. For working with text it seems fine. The review that started this all states "Thanks to the higher frequency of 120 Hz, movements are very smooth and there are no major issues with ghosting, even though the response times are pretty slow."
@@joewr I returned the machine today. I will be moving on from this antiquated machine. For the money, this machine should have top of the line specs. I will probably go with either a Lenovo or a Samsung.
Is this something that a driver update can correct?
I doubt it, it's probably limited by the screen hardware. I have an old monitor that has ghosting with heavily saturated colours, it's not that bad though when you're actually playing, as you rarely see such heavily saturated colours in games (or it's only really noticeable on heavily saturated colours). However, the shades that are ghosting in butters' demonstration you see everywhere, which is terrible. I just got my SLS2 and am going to test it out myself... if it's really as bad as the demo, it will blow my mind how bad it is for the price of this thing. I would notice stuff like that just browsing the web. If it's that noticeable, I'll be seriously thinking about returning it.
Technically it is possible, but unlikely.
@@cbutters yeah this is crazy... Just browsing the web I can see heavy ghosting behind my cursor... It's way worse than my 10 year old monitor on my desktop that was known for having 'bad' ghosting when I bought it. I am so disappointed right now. I can't believe it's so bad with such an expensive laptop.
@cbutters Any chance they would issue a recall and/or produce an upgraded panel with better performance and give owners the option to upgrade if they wish?
@@KjKase Hi and what decision have you made now? Did you send it back?
Not acceptable having no overdrive on laptop panels above 60hz.
Link to your skin please
how does this compare to a galaxy ultra book3
Unless the person at Samsung was pulling my leg, I was told the Ultra has 1MS.
Even the macbook pro 2019 had better performance/ghosting issues than this. Apple was focusing on productivity but at least its suitable for gaming, as for the M series... thats another story but if you can get games to work via crossover, etc they are still good looking compare to this. What the hell MS
It's not a gaming laptop whatsoever but for that expensive price it's definitely not worth it
Not buying one last month was the greatest decision ever
Building a PC with RTX 4070 is way better and cheaper
Sounds like apples mini led screen
Even though Apple's mini-LED is bad in terms of display response time, SLS2 somehow is way worse + it's just a regular LCD, not mini-LED. I cannot believe Microsoft is putting this into a 2K$+ device.
Don't understand why microsoft just doesn't switch to oled and continues to use this old ass panel
It would have been one thing if they even used the panel from the SLS1, because the SLS2 is 42% worse than the previous model.
@@cbutters wow ...thanks for the info man . we need smart dudes like you . i own the SLS1 , another reason to treasure my ssl1 . mine is 18 months old and battery capacity at 96% . jus wanna share that i use battery limiter when plugged in . it really is helpful to care for your battery . i also only game or kick in the DGPU when plugged in . nowadays i still get 10hrs + when surfing internet . but youtube videos are a killer ....and will lower this time .
Sls maybe crap but the colours on it were much more realistic than the Asuus
True, although I haven't tuned a color profile for it; like microsoft has done with their panel at the factory. The oled panel could probably get there as that Zenbook Panel is actually 100% DCI-P3
The SLS2 is only 67% DCI-P3
Satechi 165W USB-C 4-Port PD Charger
solution : get an external monitor if ur gonna game
That defeats the purpose of buying it
Surface Studio 2 Is for creators not gaming 🤷🏾♂️ Yes u can play some but its a Studio
Exactly
Use a egpu
Why can't it be both? That's what the concept d7 ezel was
As always with this company : over promising and under performing
Sls was just a chick magnet like iphones nuthin else
If you gotta slow down the video this much to notice anything, you don't buy a surface for gaming....
Play plenty of games on mine without any hiccups or noticing anything like this.
I didn't slow down the video in order to notice it. It is slowed down because it is very hard / technically challenging to represent what your eye is seeing in real life over a compressed 30fps youtube video.
@@cbutters for majority of people that are more of a casual gamer, this wouldn’t be an issue (such as myself) I think making a blanket statement as “fails as a gaming laptop” is a bit of a stretch.
@@ttrotary7 I'm sure that the screen is "not an issue" but you're paying $600+ versus the Asus Z13 shown in the video. Having experienced the latter's screen firsthand it's not something I'd ever want to give up, and the idea of paying not just a little more, but much more, for a worse screen is a deal-breaker.
You notice the slow response time just scrolling around a web page. it's terrible looking compared to all the other tech I own, and it costs by far the most.