MinisForum V3 vs. Surface Pro 10 - Which Tablet is Better? Comprehensive.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- I pitted the New MinisForum V3 against the King of Windows PC Tablets. Which one comes out ahead?
Just to be clear:
FFXV BENCHMARK on V3:
15W: 3093, 22W: 3613, 28W: 3770
I do not mean this as a knock at all, I genuinely love this 2014-era tech review video production level. Just a person giving opinions. No splashy animations and transitions purchased from an animation pack everyone uses, you're not trying to very clearly cop any particular creator's style. Just straight tech in long cuts from your own voice. I love it.
Thanks. That's definitely my vibe. I'm no "professional" youtuber, I just record the things I'd be doing anyways and I don't have the time or willpower to make everything "shiny", I just like sharing my thoughts and hopefully those thoughts are also useful to others. Thanks for the comment, I really appreciate it.
Thank you, from Hong Kong
I actually watched the whole thing because it was just our information throughout no overt marketing or propaganda
Great review - I owned a surface pro 7 and I loved that device. I've preordered the minisforum v3 though as the negatives you outlined were very minor, and the better performance, lower power consumption, and the much cheaper price made it a no brainer. Will be bringing my microsoft surface mouse over to use with the V3 though, not a fan of trackpads (only use them if i'm away from a flat surface to work on)
Awesome. please do share your experience
Thanks bro! I just ordered the V3 thanks to your video. 👋👍
The V3 was a very easy computer purchase for me. I work on the road, and portability is very important. Lower power consumption means I don't need to pack a giant power bank to enjoy a couple hours of gaming each night.
How has it been so far a month in? Considering buying one want to know what to expect
@@jayevans7737 impressed with the included accessories and screen protector. The tablet itself has a quality feel, in both the metal and weight. Runs RD2 with med / high settings, Hogwarts at native with low sets, Wukong at 800p low med settings. All of it above 30 to 60 fps.
Nice video--I think I made the right choice. Mine came today😊 I have a lot to learn and you are getting info I can use. The stuff that came along in the box is all good and useful--nice sleeve, nice screen protector, Pen and keyboard. All in the base price. Free and fast shipping to the door was nice too. Only wish I could have gotten a bigger or faster SSD. This would have been a great option and I guess it really can't be swapped out. I'll just have to break out the usb 4 enclosure ssd drive. Probably next gen will offer choices. Overall, nice upgrade over my old surface pro. Keep putting these vids out--saving me from having to learn on my own.
If it survives, I would love to get the 2nd or 3rd gen of the V3.
Yes, I agree. If next gen they did: OLED Display / Integrated Kickstand / Stronger magnets for keyboard / More refined edges / Better camera, it would be almost the perfect device.
I agree! But I'm afraid that if they improve that much, they'll loose their most outstanding "feature" against other Windows tablets: price
Your reviews have improved a lot! Great work, keep it up.
As per kickstand, nothing, I mean nothing, beats Surface Pro’s built-in strong kickstand. The only thing that is the closest is the Legion Go built-in kickstand. The only thing I would prefer this Minisforum one is just because of the APU it uses is 50x better than the Surface Pro 10 Iris iGPU, otherwise Surface Pro x86 series are very solid ( I have a SP8 ).
Thanks for the video. I came across the v3 while looking to get a new surface pro, but hadnt found any comparison outside of straight benchmarks. I appreciate the real world tests, like the lapability, and the audio/video comparison. I could always hope a new version of the keyboard comes out for the v3. Am curious how it will compare to the 11, and also battery (which knocked out the flow z13 for me), and heat dissipation. Subscribing!
I was interested when you brought up that the pen and screen texture makes it feel more like pen on paper on the V3 than on the Surface Pro 10. I would love to learn more about how useful the V3 is for artists, and for that matter, video editing and maybe even 3D modeling.
Drawing is shown on one of the other Youttube video's ( th-cam.com/video/qqTYaRl6yVE/w-d-xo.html ) starts around 7':20" from line drawing through to some Manga'esq picture drawing. Ditto a few other video's show the V3 using video editing and rendering.
@@everalm1 looks like it has significant lag in the stylus
@@jayarmstrong haha, oh well it's still very pretty
We need a bluetooth connected keyboard and a better stand on the miniforum v3, then most people would get it instead of any other windows tablet! Great review!
You go above and beyond thanks! Really looking forward to the eGPU experience.
My V3 just arrived yesterday. Super niche use case, I also own a Lenovo Tab Extreme, and both have display port in. The Tab Extreme makes a perfect second monitor for this lol. And oddly enough while I don't really need to dual screen my android tablet, the V3 works as a second display for the Tab Extreme.
You hit the nail on the head. Handling the Surface Pro 9 is a pleasure. The rounded edges and attention to other physical details makes for a comfortable experience. The Forum device is rough but will probably improve in future iterations. It's biggest feature is performance. For me though, performance is secondary as I use my Surface for office productivity and programming exclusively.
Agreed, This is a super valid position to have represented. Thanks for the comment!
Thanks again for another great vid cbutters! You always touch on the info that I want to know wrt power, perf, thermals.
Great comparison, thanks! Glad I pre-ordered the v3 over the surface pro 10.
I don't really know, I'm confused between the battery performance of the V3 and the power and harmony of the Surface. Thank you and I want to try more.
You're right, there's not a clear winner here. V3 for performance, but Surface Pro for refinement and comfort.
I really like the minisforum v3. Do you plan on doing any egpu benchmarks? I'm curious on how well it integrates with those in comparisons to the surface.
yes, i will be. for early look; I expect it will be fairly close to the legion go scores in this video: th-cam.com/video/6GyZQpgtm9M/w-d-xo.html
@@cbuttersJust watched it. Right on!
So destroys it on performance, performance per watt and price but doesn’t have the same fit and finish or polish.
Personally I don’t think you could bet better value or performance out of a tablet than that minisforum. The did a really good job of making a powerful portable tablet.
I'm really hoping that Minisforum iterates well on this design with a second version with AMD Strix Point. I really think if they just shaved about a half inch off the width of this device, include a much better camera and mic with an integrated kickstand (even if they have to make it a little thicker), and include an Oculink port, they could have a real winner on their hands! Oled would be a nice addition too - it would make it a solid $1399 device...
I'm so glad you showed me this! Amazing device!!
Finally! A really good comprehensive comparison between these two devices.
Cameron, I'm curious... Does the Surface Signature Keyboard from the Surface Pro 8 and 9 also work on the Surface Pro 10?
Yes, it should work. There is a new keyboard that has the copilot button, but its backwards compatible.
Im super intrigued by these tablets. I wanted to get a tablet for sheet music scores, portable gradebooks and wireless casting to classroom smartboards, general tablet and laptop usage, and being able to run some apps for video/audio/photo editing, maybe even running OBS to use it as a smaller hub for streaming events. I tried the iPad M4 because I havent had a tablet since the iPad 2, but the limits as a light use laptop and file management was awful, so I was turning towards Surface Pro 11. For about half the price of a similarly specced Surface this might be a good choice overall.
Screw the comfort we need to see functionality … writing, drawing , multitasking, game play
The V3 is an excellent device in terms of both performance and price, but I'm more concerned about its repairability. Laptop coolers can quickly get clogged with dust, and with the V3, there's no information on how feasible it would be to clean it, either on your own or at service centers, unlike Surface devices. It's the cleaning aspect that worries me the most; if it weren't such a big issue, I would have ordered the V3 without hesitation.
So it seems like this device is meant for one or two years of use, and afterward, it's either risking disassembly (in case of screen damage, it's practically impossible to replace it, although Surface devices also have exorbitant screen replacement prices, making replacement almost pointless), or simply disposing of the device.
yea minisform products are usually super repairable and modable.
Surface pros also use fans to cool down the CPU, they exhaust are just hidden on the sides of the device.
Any repair shop can have access to the internals, they use a special tool to melt the glue that seals the screen, they do whatever they need to reapply the glue, heat again and is sealed.
This is pretty easy stuff.
The V3 design would actually be much easier to clean. I would use a small pin or Sim card removal tool to insert into one of the vent holes in the back and place in Inbetween the fan blades, then use compressed air to blow out the fans. The pin is to prevent the fan from spinning the which could generate current and thus possibly damage internals.
You might like the Thinkpad X12 as it's repairable. It's screwed together.
Yeah I'm pretty sure both devices are held together with glue, making user serviceability a daunting proposition. I wouldn't even want to try tbh. I really wish they could have just had user accessible screws. I guess in reality only the battery and SSD would be changeable anyway though; imagine if it had screws and user upgradeable RAM. I really wish Framework would make a device like this.
Would love to see you do this same comparison but with the new Surface Pro 11 instead. I am currently debating on which hybrid laptop to get and am stuck between Surface Pro 11, MinisForum V3 and the Asus proart pz13
As it sits, the value proposition of the MinisForum sounds great, but with a rumored Surface Snapdragon event coming in less than three weeks, I'll have to decide on May 20th. Thank you for the detailed review. The MinisForum was not even on my radar, but is now a contender.
😂 good look with the fake performance of the Elite X, all manufacturers have been complaining that they perform much worse than what snapdragon is claiming.
Wow, what an amazing detailed comparison of these devices... I was very tempted by the V3, but the main reason I decided to give up, other that the fact that the EU launch price is more like $1450, is that the device is sealed, with storage non upgradable (contrary to the Surface) and above all battery not repleaceble... And the battery life is apparently under 6 hours (notebook check) for web browsing and is only going to go down over time... I think this was a missed opportunity for Minisforum, an upgradable device, easy to open and service, would have been so much better...
It's comparable to the 12" ipad pro or even MacBook Air, which is 0 upgradability and repairability. V3 by comparison is quite a bargain too.
@@TiggerLyOne A Macbook Air is not upgradable but is lighter, has 3 times the battery life as this and is fanless. Not that I'd buy that anyway given the extortionary Apple prices on upgrades. And sure let's also compare this to a mobile device while we are at it...
Why don't we compare this to my thinkpad, which is much lighter, has better battery life and cellular and at least has replaceable storage and battery. When the battery becomes poor after a few years this will become a glorified desktop that cannot be upgraded and cost way more (my Ryzen mini pc cost me a fraction of the price and has 32GB RAM, and even with the 12.5TB of SSD I put inside it was still under $1000).
A Little question.. I also have the V3 and am dissatisfied with the colors of the display. The default color setting V3-TEST does not appear well calibrated. Did you have that too?
Do you happen to have the .ini calibration file if you managed to calibrate the display? Thanks!
Very thorough and objective review. Thank you. I agree with you, I don't understand why Microsoft etc have not put AMD APUs in their Windows tablets, other than the business community that often purchased such products are quite conservative and may fill safer with big blue. I was going to buy a Lenovo Legion Go to play the games I couldn't play on my Steam Deck, I then saw the Minisforum V3 announcement, decided it would be ideal even if a little more expensive, plus it supports some of my other needs, such as coding. So, I've ordered one under the early bird offer, which includes Windows 11 Pro, keyboard, stand, stylus, laptop sleeve, and screen protector. And as you say, the pricing is compelling, especially compared to Surface Pro 10 pricing, plus all V3 reviews to date have been extremely positive, even if some did complain about the stand when they weren't using it properly! The V3 has a magnesium alloy die cast chassis, like the Surface Pro 10, but there is one other advantage the Surface Pro 10 has over the V3, as you can simply upgrade its SSD via a service door under the kickstand. It's a pity Minisforum didn't offer a similar solution. I am also interested in seeing this comparison rerun when Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite / Plus processors are added to the Surface Pro 10 model range in H2 24. I am a huge fan of Windows 11 arm, as I use a Windows Dev Kit 2023 daily, so looking forward to seeing it running on a tablet / 2 in 1 with the new Snapdragon arm64 processor that has double the SQ3 / Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 performance.
The SSD technically is upgradeable and it's a full m.2 2280 form factor which means there are way more options available than the little 2230 in the Surface Pro. You would just have to remove the screen which is not recommended. On the plus side, it's 1 TB which is way better than the base model Surface Pro. My SP8 only came with 128 GB and I had to upgrade it to a 1TB to make it useful.
I use the surface pro like it was meant to be used. Half writing/reading tablet and half laptop. And the 13" 3:2 screen is just too big. The 12.4 of the part was the perfect size. Those older surface were so easy and fun to handle. It felt like a 11" ipad. But I cannot switch back to SP7 due to the 60hz screen since refresh rate is most important to me. I was 100% sure I would get the Minis V3 ever since they announced it, it was like a dream come true. But I hate matt screen and its too big and heavy for a tablet.
I have a surface pro 9 i5... Though the processing power of the V3 is tempting the surface pro 9 is just enough power for my needs and I think the refinements surrounding the build materials is not quiet enough to justify the switch. It's great to see an AMD tablet, but I think I'll wait for either the 2nd or 3rd generation to iron out some of these.
Didn't hear mention price ms tablet but I assuming it's at least $600 more would pick V3 performance and price
Thanks for doing this, I am trying to decided between the two! I won't be gaming, looking for 32gb for productivity.
So glad I went for the Flow Z13 over the Minisforum. Great specs, but it’s obviously their first tablet.
Double the price. And Intel again, no thank you.
Very nice review/comparison!
Thanks for the fair and informative review.
do u have anything in your experience close to be able to have simcard , czn making calls and operates as window computer , all in one?
I'm really interested how the Minisforum V3 compares to the new surface with the snapdragon
The cost differential is a big part of why the v3 likely makes the most sense, especially for anyone who needs the extra RAM. Too bad they don't offer a 64gb model, there is a spec like that for surface but the price is insane. The main downside is taking the gamble on not needing support, since the surface is likely better supported. I still remember when I dropped my SP3 and cracked the screen and called MS and admitted my mistake, and they said "Oh that sounds like a defect! We'll send you a replacement". I doubt that would necessarily still happen today but that blew me away and I couldn't believe it.
Minisforum are bringing out a 64GB 2TB model after the initial launch.
@@irnchriz Oh! Well then. a 64gb/2tb model is very intriguing indeed.
@@irnchriz Haven't seen that announcement anywhere. Do you have a link to it?
Thank you for doing this video!🎉
ty for this super helpful review! was most curious how this stand will hold up if you are working with the stand on your lap. the missing integrated stand has been keeping me from buying the minisforum device but looks like it gets the job done.
Is it fair to assume that the bigger size and lower rigidity of the v3 keyboard also make it slightly worse off than the surface in laptopability?
I loved the surface despite the price gouging because I contort myself in weird positions when I'm in the flow, working. The surface doesn't interrupt that sweet flow which I value the most. If you're a normal person the minisforum is likely the better choice, but if you have bad habits like I do, the 5% is more like "30% of the time" usecase.
Regarding "Laptopability" The less strong magnets and less variable kickstand make it slightly worse off than the surface as a laptop, but only if you use angles the V3 cannot reach, so its only slightly worse. The keyboard magnet thing isn't a big deal, once it is in position it doesn't flop out or anything, My bigest issue with it is that its leaning back too much and you can't get the kickstand any tighter to make the screen more vertical; however I usually just grab a book or some papers or even the stylus works to prop the kickstand angle up a bit more and then it is good.
Ty for this big Information i will buy the v3 now piece😊🎉
Are there third party stands on the market for minisforum v3 already ? I was wondering if I could use ergo split keyboard with this and still have it stable. Will you compare the new surface x plus and/or x elite with minisforum v3 ?
Yes! For a first Gen, it is quite well done
For anyone wanting to do high performance tasks, the v3 hands down. The surface is only for writing and browsing.. not really for anything demanding.
I don't see any reasons other than "Trust in Microsoft" to choose the Surface.
The Minisforum V3 crushes in both performance and price while its downside is nothing major.
Great comparison. Mine is stuck at customs pending import permit
I really appreciate your work. Well done!
Just left a question on one of your vids about VR.
I think on a track pad it's just not necessary to have a click anymore in 2024, I think tap has become just more mainstream.
which small tablet do you recommend? I'm a doctor and want a small format (like iPad mini) to put into my coat pocket
windows tablet or android tablet? You could try the Surface Go, if android the samsung tab series with S pen would work.
Hey sir can you please give a tutorial on how to remove write protect on Acer Chromebook 511 C734 hardware?
Any news about Asus Z13 2024 model ? Or may be there will be Z14 with 14 inch screen like V3?
My 2 cents, forget the Z13. It carries hidden issues and will ignite itself one by one along the time. Z13 is also very expensive
Give it a time for alternative like Snapdragon X Elite to show itself. We'll have more things to compare.
Btw, I own Z13 (Core i9) and X16 (Ryzen 9). Both have issue of its own.
Can I know does the Microsoft Surface Pen works on this device since they're using the same protocol?
I tried it and it does.
Microsoft's hate boner for AMD is the only reason I've never bought any of their devices. They tried once, but all the options were Windows 11 which I'm boycotting. And there weren't any sources confirming 100% validation for Win 10 LTSE. Edit: The RAM was another dealbreaker, they never had the appropriate memory for the generation, it was always half the RAM needed for a minimum spec.
How do you charge the V3? Do you have to use one of the USB4 ports, or can you use the one at the left?
Only the USB4 ports on the right side seem to charge it.
@@cbutters Thank you so much for the information. This may be a deal breaker for me since it basically cuts the available ports to one, since unlike the Surface it does not have a connect charging port.
@@steve_yu Not really, hub with pass through charging would add pretty much all the functionality/connectivity you need as well as power and still leave a port free
@@steve_yu Yep, you'll have only 1 USB-C port when charging, unless you wanna get a dock or live the dongle life.
What makes me angry is in US it’s $1200 but in the UK it’s £1200 which works out at $1500 we get ripped off over here
I can only wish to have one of them to get a better and high paying job. I just can't afford either of them. I also dont think they're available here in the Philippines😊
Good lapability comparison. I’m frustrated with your performance review that only compares a game. I never do games, just productivity apps. Also I’m more interested in battery life taking this thing on the road. Thus I’m not sure your review is very helpful.
Battery life is always such a Complicated Question especially with all the power configurable modes on this device.
Minisforum gets more frames using less watts, and has a slightly larger battery 50Wh vs. 48Wh. (in 15W power mode) Minisforum V3 will last much longer and have higher performance than SP10.
However you could tune it to get even more frames and use close to 50 watts from the wall (using the V3's 28W mode), the Surface Pro 10 in sustained usage will only ever use 39W. In this case the Surface Pro 10 would last longer, but would be much less performant graphically.
In the V3's 22W mode, pretty equal in terms of battery life between the two, but V3 is more performant at this power level.
Of course all this talk is when doing something fairly intensive like playing a game or rendering.
Idling along, on battery saver mode / light usage, they both use close to the same amount of power, but the edge is with the AMD system. The Minisforum V3 lasts longer in my couch surfing sessions due to slightly better power consumption at idle and the slightly larger battery.
Good job around 16:00 in comparing the tablet experience, including portrait mode. MS appears to have major advantages in size, weight, aspect ratio, glare, etc. Honestly, who wants a weirdly long, heavier, bigger aspect ratio tablet with more glare? You pointed out, literally, the only Minisforum advantage, the texture on the screen. But it also has the less firm, non-built-in kickstand too. Good try Minisforum, but you are not there yet.
You left out the fact that the Microsoft is almost double the price.
@@mattbosley3531 Double the price and less performance too. I'm a Surface Pro Fan, I've had 3 of them, but I've only been able to afford the base model Surface Pros and for the same price the V3 is specced beyond what the Surface Pros can offer at the top of the line. I'm stoked for my V3 whenever it arrives.
Yeah, products that are worse in almost every capacity ought to be cheaper, a lot cheaper. My guess is that Intel-based SP 10s will drop in price not long after ARM-based SP10s come out. I'd wait until after that and get the best Windows tablet at steep but fair price. Also, consider the SP9s, if cost is your biggest issue. They will be much cheaper by then.
Let's see genshin! Nice comparison 🎉
can the keyboard be swapped between the two ?
What size is the screen
Which one has better battery life?
Complicated Question.
Minisforum gets more frames using less watts, and has a slightly larger battery 50Wh vs. 48Wh. (in 15W power mode) Minisforum V3 will last much longer and have higher performance than SP10.
However you could tune it to get even more frames and use close to 50 watts from the wall (28W mode), the Surface Pro 10 in sustained usage will only ever use 39W. In this case the Surface Pro 10 would last longer, but would be much less performant graphically.
In 22W mode, pretty equal in terms of battery life between the two, but V3 is more performant at this power level.
idling along, on battery saver mode / light usage, they both use close to the same amount of power. Minisforum V3 lasts longer though.
As a Portable device the v3 won't do with that specs and mediocre battery
I get you. No idea why they hamstring surface pro with that idiotic igpu of Intel plus battery life. I actually think Intel is selling its chips at a loss to keep them in surface devices.
Surface Pro 8
Pros:
+ light, travel friendly
+ beautiful, professional look
+ luxurious sturdy material
+ kick stand
+ battery life
+ upgradable SSD
Cons:
- price
- everything related to price in terms of hardware (low memory, CPU, storage)
- Windows OS (this device had serious issues running Microsoft's own OS. When I've sent my SPro back to Microsoft they've returned to me refurbished piece with downgraded version of Win 11 and blocked updates to higher version, that's how badly it was performing)
- Linux unfriendly (Microsoft is Linux friendly only when implementing Linux features to their own OS. Unofficial Surface kernel does work quite nice, but the experience is not great for such an expensive device and few features doesn't work at all)
Minisforum V3
Pros:
+ price
+ everything related to price in terms of hardware (V3 has technically 'same' configuration as the highest version of SPro but for the price of lowest version)
+ Linux friendly (but literally almost best friends, there's not much what does not work or cannot be fixed)
+ SD Card reader
+ works as external monitor (but sadly seems not to be working with raspberry pi)
Cons:
- heavy
- bulky with back cover and keyboard
- back cover and keyboard look and feel cheap
- keyboard experience isn't good at start due to those extra keys at right, you need to change your muscle memory
- magnetic kick stand (the worst thing on this tablet, however if you ignore the fact it is covering the fans, you can use the kick stand both ways, which then allows you to lower down the angle and be able to use the pen comfortably as you would do on SPro)
- battery life (first experience was horrible, but this probably changed, I will have an opportunity to test it more excessively next week when I start to travel with this device)
Neutral:
/ Touch layer seems to be a cheap sticker, you can actually see the grid across the screen under specific angle
Man .mini forum keyboard is too difficult to seem letter ans surface pro 10 is much better keyboard because i see big letter because for low vision thank for review 😀
I'm not going back to Surface Pro as long as Microsoft is using Intel CPU made by Intel fab. Let's see what happens with Intel 15th gen, which is made by TSMC. However, that loses the Hyperthreading.
The V3 is not refined enough to win me away from the ROG X13 2022, which is a decent tablet. The weak magnets are going to be the bane of existence for users trying to prod up the device using their lap or knee. And I really dislike keyboards with PgUp/Dn at the right edge of the keyboard.
That said, the V3 is a great attempt by Minisforum but you're right that warranty claims will be an issue.
Minisforum is reasonably good at supporting their products with BIOS updates though. My Venus UM790 Pro gets regular BIOS update to enable CPU features and game performance has improved by a lot since I first got it almost a year ago. They don't have any fancy software that controls power & performance, so it's fully handled by Radeon software and Windows Power settings, which works very well actually if you know where to look.
Looking forward to devices with Lunar Lake MX and Strix Point Halo towards the end of this year, each with very different CPU design philosophies. Should be very interesting for the laptop market in 2025.
Better Kickstand and 1 USB A , please
YES!
Yeah I don't get why Microsoft is hellbent on using Intel chips...
Durability you drop it at least a iPad can withstand it really is a shame that the product life is gone fast . Your buying a laptop.
Should've been at least 15"
maybe if it was 2:3 aspect ratio, but the 14" @ 16:10 makes it a big-boy tablet already.
@cbutters
Not big enough. I have the 16" samsung book pro with wacom pen and it's barely enough.
Worst computer I have ever had was minisforum would not get anything from this company EVER.
surface pro is almost 1k more...
Too bad the surface pro 10 is extremely overpriced! 💯
Wierd
V3 is just a crudely made product from a Chinese company. How can it be compared with Surface Pro 10?😂
Which is exactly the opposite view of this review? Did you actually watch it? The device is seen as a well made device, no issues whatsoever around build quality. The kickstand is a kludge but the build quality is not questioned. Issue identified are around the hand feel, legitimate, the magnetic connections needing to be stronger, legitimate and the kickstand being lesser in use case and manoeuvring than the Surface range. All legitimate calls. Your statement is simply nonsensical
Minisforum Atom is coming out soon. They are killing the game. And they've had booths at the big tech shows. I trust them a bit, too.