Reasons why it was important that Arthas was saved besides finding Yogg-Saron: - Without Arthas the Forsaken wouldn't exist - Without Arthas telling Illidan about the skull of Guldan, Illidan wouldn't have become more powerful and the demons would have destroyed the forest. - Without Arthas defeating Illidan, the events of the tBC wouldn't have played out as they did. Outland would still be under demonic control and from there the Burning Legion could attack Azeroth yet again. -Without Arthas the Blood Elves would not exist (High Elves and Blood Elves are now seperate races), so they wouldn't join the Horde. - Without Arthas the Scourge would still have been under the control of the Burning Legion. -Without Arthas the Draenei likely wouldn't be part of the Alliance as it took a chain of specific events for them to come to Azeroth. All in all though terrible, Arthas' influence was important in causing several important events in our current timeline.
>Without Arthas the Blood Elves would not exist (High Elves and Blood Elves are now seperate races) I think they would've preferred to not lose 90% of their fellow high elves to some edgy rɘtard on a horse just to then reluctantly join the horde. (Which still doesn't make any sense and never will, especially when the horde tried to literally genocide them) inb4 but that wasn't da reel horde
Actually, while the "small events can be changed" theory works, there's another; Timechanges being part of the one true timeline. In this timeline, the changes to the timeline happen as they are meant to happen and those who know how the timeline was changed are meant to know it as such. Past events(before change) need to happen so that the timetravellers get to the point at which they go back and change things. Or, alternatively, timeywimeywibblywobbly works too.
The real mindfuck is when you realzie that the purity of time doesnt mean NO time travel, it means some things are meant to be changed and some not. For example Krasus going back in time and garrosh going back in time might be how time is supposed to go. When you say one true time line that doesnt mean time chant be changed it only means what must happened has already happened and must continue to happen, and cannot be allowed to happen any other way. For example, traffic or a river must flow a certain direction, that doesnt mean you cannot cross it or swim up stream, or even change its course. it is the quintessential element that defines time itself that the titan was speaking to, he didnt just make nozdormu a crossing guard.
Bella Da Unicorn Well it doesnt always have to be, from what i understand there are 3 major ideas of time travel theories that most scifi and fantasy writers adhere to unless they are trying to come up with a new theory, the one i THOUGHT blizzard lore was adhering to is the one where if you change something in the past, you are actually entering a parallel dimension and altering similarities that you know from your own time. But that doesnt seem to be the case with guldan coming back in time to free illidan, who only has such an insane power becuase absorbed the power from guldans skull. Some kind of paradox usually occurs here but not if the timelines are not the same and this time travel is actually parallel realities.
+Cheezeblade Well... Time travel is actually (in my opinion) a very ludicrous thing to even contemplate. It's just hard for us recognize how impossible it is. Sure we can say, "Well what IF time travel was a thing?" but that's really like asking, "Well what if something could both exist and not exist?" It's just not something to think about... I could of course be wrong, but the reason I'm saying this is because I'm a believer of a theory that disproves time travel for a completely unthinkable concept. See, if it were a thing, that would violate the Conservation of Mass law because "copies" of the universe would be stored for every single quanta of time. Not only that, but time travel would be saying that atoms altered in a moment already passed would somehow affect the ones already here. Our perception of time is really just the tendency of our minds to store bits of information so as to make them relative to each other.... There are a lot more technicalities to the theory. You can check out the website that gives the whole story. (My granddad wrote it!) timespaceandgravity.com/
Always loved time travel stuff.. interesting movie to check out: Predestination. Despite loving the concept, i only believe you can go forward in time, if time travel was even possible. (Based off being stoned, watching 12 Monkeys and other films 😋)
Hey Nobbel, first off, great video. Time and time travel has always been my favorite subject for any games or movies. I think the best way to explain the tyrande and the war of the ancients paradox is that Nozdormu erased anything that can drastically alter the time line but kept things that can influence a future that was already there. Tyrande knowing about the orcs can lead to drastic changes but Malfurion was already going to be a druid so some influence there wasnt going to change.
I love these lore videos of yours! As a former WoW player, these videos help me keep up with the story since I really don't have time to play anymore. Keep it up!
We are still playing on the original/prime timeline, only it has been altered. That's why I said that you would expecttheir involvement to have more of an effect, perhaps even create a new timeline...but it didn't. Them going back in time is part of our history now. This is proven in Stormrage and our overal history.
I don't work for Blizzard so I can't say for sure. They've left a couple of doors and windows open when it comes to the scourge story. Kel'thuzad is part of that so if they want, they got plenty of stories left to tell.
I play a D&D campaign with a bunch of my friends in which Nozdormu has been an incredible tool to allow my players to play through various events in Azeroth's history. In my game I go by the Dragonlance (a delightful fantasy series created by Margret Weis and Tracy Hickman) theory that time is a raging river and going back to the past is like trying to change the river's course with a handful of pebbles. There are key moments that are destined to happen.
Hey there Nobbel! In regards to the caverns of time battle for Mount Hyjal, I heard that the original concept was to have us disguised as undead/scourge and actually aid Archimonde reach the world tree. We would fight through waves of infinite dragons and eventually fight a massive dragon at the end, allowing Archimonde to start absorbing the tree and eventually die to the wisps. The idea was eventually scrapped and we were given what we have today.
I wish that was true, but WotA novel did take place in our timeline and affected it. Our Furbolgs aided the war, our blue dragonflight survived, our Malfurion escaped the nightmare with the aid of Thura and Axe of Cenarius.
Time is...wilbbly wobbly, whether in Doctor Who or World of Warcraft. But I'm glad you made it a little bit easier to understand for the WoW universe, thanks!
In my opinion it makes me alot easier to understand these lores when you tell us, rather than read it myself... So damn interesting! Keep up the good work Nobbel!
I loved the time travel stuff. Back in Classic WoW I always tried to glitch my way into the Caverns of Time. One time I made it and it was amazing to see such a warped world. Little houses built into the rocks, boats, skelettons, stuff you wouldn't expect in a cave :D and above all the glittering ceiling. Great times.
Medivh said it best when describing how the location for the placement of Karazahn came about. That sometimes events happen out of order for them to happen, like the site where his tower being built happening so that the tower could be built there. Also we know that Nozdormu swore both Malfurion and Tyrande to keep the secrets of what they saw as he and the others left.
Well as I said in the video: Original timeline = NE won the WotA without the aid of Krasus/Rhonin/Brox. Brox wasn't there so Axe of Cenarius was never made for him. They also didn't have the aid of Furbolgs/Tauren/Earthen. Group is send back in time, save the day, Noz sends them back home. New timeline: Axe of Cenarius is created, Earthen, Furbolgs, Tauren aided the war. Krasus, Rhonin, Brox aided the Night Elves in their battle.
The idea that events change after someone travels through time, like tyrande remebering orcs, is what i like to call the back to the future effect- marty went back in time and nearly made it so his parents didnt end up together and he wouldnt exist but he later fixed it.
Disclaimer: I don't know as much about the lore as I should, so there could be some errors in the history. Be kind you internet monsters. I feel the most overlooked possibility of any time travel timeline is the possibility that those who go into the past are meant to go into the past, where the outcome of the event in the past isn’t changed. I am not as knowledgeable about this as most, but the idea that Boxigar and rhonin did go back and alter the world is the true timeline as the event was destined to have them intervene. The argument is that then time isn’t linear, which is difficult to not only understand but then implement into a “linear” story line. The idea of non-linear time isn’t difficult in theory as long as we acknowledge that the beings that experience linear time can not experience non-linear time because of their sensory tools. Much as Vampire Bats can see in infrared, their sensory of the world has been changed that is completely different to what we understand. To further prove that linear time is a physical imitation of understanding look at the limits of all other bats. Bats have known of sonar for as long as they have been on earth, we as humans learned of sonar within the last 100 years, after developing tools to harness and read the sonar, thus making bats in general perceive life in a different light than we do. I know that sonar and infrared is a stretch to understanding linear and non-linear time limited to physical constraints here on Earth. But to my understanding there are entities in the WoW universe that are capable of understating non-linear time. To my understanding Prince Malchezaar sought after the tower of Karazhan and while there he claimed that is knew beyond time. And perhaps cenarius himself understood non-linear time and when he was saved he wasn’t exactly saved as much as he knew that he would be receiving help, because that is the true timeline. But again, I am not sure about the lore, so this is just a thought. I think the most interesting evidence is that Broxigar actually exists in the time”line” that we are lead to believe is true. The story of Broxigar states that the portal would have been successful is Broxigar didn’t sacrifice himself to close it, thus sargeras would have been on Azeroth and burned it to the ground, which we all know he didn’t. Therefor something to someone had to give in order to keep sargeras out of the world, step in time traveled Broxigar. He saves the world, sargeras doesn’t exist, the world continues and Broxigar is born and becomes a hero and is asked by Nozdormu to step into the past to help out keeping sargeras out of Azeroth. For those who didn’t go back in time, the world continues with the Burning Legion that hasn’t taken over yet in our “true timeline”. The paradox of the chicken or the egg is the basis to understanding non-linear time travel and perhaps a solution to physical limitations interpreting and understanding time. Remember, humans are the smartest animal because humans made all the experiments to measure intelligence.
They never explained what he has seen in that moment, but I think it was. Especially with that little speech he gives at the end about closing loops. Although...Moruzond with his last breath does say "You know not what you have done. Aman'thul...What... I... have... seen... Did we mess up the original timeline by killing him at the wrong moment? Who knows :D
It's possible, but it doesn't have to be. One conclusion you could draw is that we are riding on a different timeline and that Moruzond was on the original one, but that doesn't have to be the case. The future death of Nozdormu could have happened on an alternative timeline which is already further into the future than ours. I believe this is the case, otherwise our Nozdormu has been telling us lies and putting us on jobs to preserve the timeline, which isn't even the right timeline to preserve.
00:15 Just that Aman'Thul told Nozdormu he had one Timeline to Manage doesn't mean only one Time Line exists! Eventually by going through many timelines he manages them for being Largely consistent, one of them is ourselves. But then Azeroth might have many many Timelines,
Hate to answer a question with a question, but ...If a timeline is meant to change, why place a guardian to prevent it from changing? That would imply that no matter what happens, time will always stay in the original timeline, no matter what changes are made which means that the task of the Bronze Dragonflight is useless.
Geweldige videos nobbel, je hebt wel een beetje me kijk op wow veranderd er zit zoveel meer in kwa lore dan ik dacht. Ga zo door ! Greetings from Ravencrest
just a small thing to add, the Dragon blight quest where chromie send you to help "future you" find out who the leader of the infinite Dragon flight are, it shows nozdormu. just an interesting preconception we didn't realize at the time
I think what the titan was referring to was that you must make the big events happen, the only things you can change are the small things around the edges. They could not prevent the sundering but they could help against the demons.
Well tbh at that point in time neither one of them really stood up against Garrosh. Baine told him that there must never be another Theramore if Garrosh ever wants the aid of the Tauren again... Oeeeee you go Baine! Vol'jin was the one who openly spoke out against Garrosh even before Theramore and he was the one who got the Horde rebellion together.
Your fricken awesome Nobbel and thanks for all the explanations of the lore. I have been enjoying all of them and if its not to much to ask could you do one on the Troll race, please...
Possible, but that would make the mission of the Bronze Dragonflight kinda silly. Protect the timewaves from changing, unless they're supposed to change...then it's oke.
Maybe, now that the aspects are mortal, Nozdormu is faced with his own mortality, and (probably influenced by the old gods) tries to regain his power, to once again be inmortal , and that's when he becomes Moruzand.
The bronze dragonflight was tasked with preventing that someone tries to travel in time and significatly alter past events because that could destroy the fabric of space and time. That's why they are fighting the infinite dragon flight. Now that they have prevented the infinite dragon flight from interfering, nozdormu can lose his powers and trust the task of protecting time and space to someone else
about the changing the timeline, tbf it could easily be thought that the people going back in time and intervening is part of the timeline (see time splitters 3 when future you gives you the key to the door upstairs, for you to then give the key to your past self again)
"It should be noted that Metzen and his writing team support the information put forward in the novels as actual events, and the events in other Warcraft novels are proven to be the true lore. Since there is no difference in the timelines of Azeroth following the conclusion of the War, the point of which version is correct is not vital to a general understanding of the history. It is only in terms of a few specifics that it becomes problematic."
Hey nobbel! In answering your question of how Tyranda doesn't recognize orcs, considering she's seen Brox, Blizz kind of answered that in the Escape from Durnhold. They make it sound like if the true timeline was ever tampered with, then they would send in a Bronze dragon to fix the anomaly, or to wipe the minds of everyone involved of the events that transpired, and replace those missing memories with the events that should have happened.
I think the Timeless Isle holds more significance than just being a mere sandbox for level 90 alts. I think it's a message from Blizzard telling us that the powers Nozdormu lost will soon return, because they have not fulfilled their duty. That was the reasoning we got in Cata, so when the Old Gods return wholly and fully with another puppet (Azshara), the Dragon Aspects will get their powers back through deus ex machina.
It actually makes sense that Murozond in the timeline we kill him, was equal in power to Nozdormu the aspect. The Murozond we kill comes from a timeline where Deathwing wins, meaning we failed to get the Demon Soul from the past, thus the Aspects didn't loose their powers. If Nozdormu becomes corrupted, we'll fight our own version of Murozond, different from the one we already defeated.
remember what was said after we killed Deathwing, now is the time of mortals, this means that the dragon aspects have given up their powers over Azeroth, the timelines are no longer sealed etc... Nozdorumu can no longer see the far future as it has ultimately changed and the end time has been stopped with the death of Deathwing, at least that particular end time anyway.
Nozdormu says after killing murozond that what he had been shown- his own death had now come to pass. He had always been shown his death through murozond so...its confusing. He also says that he would one day become murozond only to be killed by the heroes before him and for him to see it happen again "and so the cycle continues..." is how he puts it. Time travel is way to complicated nobbel but i like that u decided to look into this stuff.
The oldgods temptations. Nozdurmu said he would become Murozond and he knew his future would be him turning to the infinite dragon master. Nozdurmu foresaw this part of his future and has accept it as true timeline. This might be his final chapter and he knows it, this is where he awaits the inevitable temptations of the oldgods to get his power back to create this real "Infinite timeline" by the orders of the oldgods. Love your show, Teraness, Frostmane - EU
If Murozond fell victim to the whispers of the old gods, he was also empowered by the old gods, and those are more powerful than the Titans, so Murozond would be more powerful than Nozdormu... That's it.
+klonvomhaus I was about to comment with a similar idea. I like the idea that Murozond could be empowered by some other way after losing his dragon aspect powers. The cycle can still repeat :D.
Hodge Smith If you ask Blizzard, it is part of the Nether. Nether connects all times and places. So it is a timey-wimey wobely-dobely thingywingy... (and yes, I am somewhat quoting The Doctor here.)
I can't see how you believe that the old gods are stronger than the titans when small being the titans made with a miniscule amount of their power defeated them and imprisoned them.
Nobbel, what do you think of this theory? Maybe Nozdormu told the other aspects about his future self and wanted to change the future by removing their powers (or locking it inside a vessel, possibly a new, combined dragonflight leader which could make total sence if it was Thrall's child) to weaken themselves, so that they will not become a great threat to azeroth.
geez, reminds me of how Nozdormu sent adventurers to retrieve Dragon Soul from 10000 years ago. that would mean that it was no longer present after it in time...and it was really influantial in the possession of Deathwing during orc wars. he killed dragons with it, orcs trapped Alexstrasza using it's power. removing that powerful artifact from that whole timeline =/ I wish there was no timetraveling at all
Hey Nobbel, if you consider that this "one and true timeline" is the time focusing around a single person instead of the whole world. As we allow Medivh, Arthas and Thralls stories happen, it is all about one person.
I thought of something, he saw the loss of his powers. Events unfold and he is now being ordered around by the old gods. The old gods could grant him his time powers back with (maybe) the sacrifice of a powerful being, maybe even another old god. Or even the old gods are that powerful that they can just give him the power with no sacrifice.
@Nobbel87 Nozdormu is suppose to make sure the one TRUE timeline is in motion, there are other timelines but Nozdormus job is to make sure those other timelines dont happen and only the ONE that the titans have charged him with comes into light, so technically things from the other timelines can travel to the timeline Nozdormu protects(the infinite dragonflight) and try to fuck with it so that there timeline comes true and not the others
Hey Nobbel, I love watching your videos and I think that you should make lore podcasts, or make your current videos downloadable. If there is a way to do this, please let me know. I love listening to your lore, and it would be great to listen to it wherever I can go.
Can you please make a video explaining all the kingdoms and where they are and include the leaders and key characters! You're videos are great and easy to follow except that part! If it is too much work don't bother, but i think im not the only one who is confused with this stuff! LOVE YOUR VIDS! :D
They've changed some things around to make one "Official timeline". I'm waiting for the moment when they reverse this, but for now...this is the official timeline. Despite what other sources say.
As Nozdorumu said, we heroes are the ones who kill him, so maybe in order to stay alive he teams with the old gods to kill the heroes. Maybe the hour of twilight isn't total destruction for those the old gods like, maybe its some sort of post-apocolyptic haven for crazies.
(pt2) Not to save himself but save Azorth a worse fate the even the Hour of Twilight. But again this not set in stone, this is a possible version of Norzdmu, and we could have quest/patch content where we help prevent this Timeline from happening. Gifting Norzdmu with now being able to see all time, but his death is no longer fixed, his fate is his own for good or ill (which the Titan of Time may appear to tell him).
Nozdormu is as stated currently mortal, but he still retains all of his knowledge of the time ways! A possibility, especially with his statement that he would 'fall into darkness', is that with the corruption of the Old Gods, they much as the Titans, gives him powers that although not exactly like he had from the Titans, would perhaps be almost equal! The Old Gods have been known to 'bestow' great powers upon their most promising minions!
I think your right, he accepts the Old Gods help or an unnamed Old God of Time (they seem to be chaotic counterparts of the titans) out of desperation. He pleads with us during the fight that the Hour of Twilight is blessing compared with what is coming. Which falls into how he was tricked, with out power of time sight Norzdormu can't tell if the future he see's real or not and out of desperation becomes Mudorzon,
It should also be mentioned that in the Dungeon Journal for Murozond it states that the titans showed him his own death and it drove him insane. The old gods tricked him into believing that bringing them to power would allow him to survive.
The thing is, the forces of nature that the Aspects represent will always be there. Life, Earth, Dream, Magic, and Time. Which, since these things have and will exist until they are destroyed, my theory is that the Aspects powers regenerate over time like mana. Over time... sound like something that Nozdormu's flight would control? So that could be the purpose of the Infinite flight, either they are trying to make sure that the Aspects never lose their power, or to give it back to them.
This is the way I interpret it: From warcraft 1 to Vanilla WoW time flowed smoothly, and everything fell into place as it was supposed to (we witness the original experience), however the infinite dragonflight possibly caused the time anomaly (haven't read the novels, but it sounds like something that they would cause :P) that threw Norzdormu back in time, causing small changes to the war of the ancients, but the outcome was largely the same and so reality was held together. And thus time was then changed. ever so slightly from then on.
Your video answers how Moruzond can exist... @8:54 "Now living outside of time". Because he stopped being apart of a timeline, you cannot simply prevent Nozdormu from being corrupted and cause Moruzond to cease to exist; you must wait for Moruzond to "enter" a timeline so that he becomes vulnerable to the passage of time, and kill-able.
I think about the true timeline thing was more of a warning to Noz when he received his power as the Aspect of Time, like "Don't forget which timeline you are supposed to be in." In the book Thrall: Hour of Twilight, Thrall has to go through the timelines to find Noz who has been missing because he lost himself in the timelines. I don't think there is an actual 'true timeline' as it keeps getting altered, but for us this is the true timeline, if that makes any sense.
Being able to* Also for the WoE-trilogy, I find it likely for the Bronze to just go back to correct certain details after recovering Nozdormu, making sure that the orcs can still invade in WC3, but not change it entirely back to the original timeline. Mind you, they are still in their prime, and now have their Aspect back on track, after him being lost in the timeways. We have seen them "fix" Thrall and Taretha, and likely Medivh and Arthas offscreen, as neither mentions the encounter after that
Hey Nobbel, speaking of time, did you notice that one of Lorewalker Cho's ancestors wears a Keepers of Time tabard? You can see it when he discusses the history of player's race in early Jade Forest quests.
Nozdormu hears the whispers of the old gods, knowing that they are bad he cautiously and knowingly takes the power. Seeing both the chaotic end and the peaceful end he pushes his last effort to push Azeroth to the final silence for peace. But since we've taken him out we unknowingly get pushed into the true end time. Murozond was trying to save us!
Nobbel, what i would like to say is that you are right. Warcraft 3 happens before the novel War of the Ancients and the actions that take place within it. The game Warcraft 3 was released before the book and therefore the events in the book didn't happen when Warcraft 3 was released. It wouldn't be until the books release that the timeline would change and Tyrande would remember the orcs. If this makes sense let me know
It would actually be an amazing plot twist if we finally fail to stop them from screwing around at a specific time event and then BAM, we are being sent back to our timeline and see everything changed. The Lich King probably alive, Leaders personalities completely different, Thrall is still a warchief with Garrosh at his side, zones look different, some alliances broken while enemies befriended. And we see how some events are repeating, yet are different. I'd pay any amount to see that :P
Also how he gets back his aspect power my guess would be that it is not completely lost but sealed so to say. The old gods might be able to give him back his powers. They are not able to make an aspect them self but if they corrupt one then they might be able to awaken the sleeping power within.
This is how I see Nozdormu becoming Murozond: In the vision of time wee see Soridomi being killed, and next to her we see a blurry figure that looks like the person that gave you the quest (learned this from DD). So he could possibly be the one to make Nozdormu able to become Murozond.
4:06 the main reson could be that if arthas would not have betrayed the human kingdoms they would not flee to kalimdor and illidan would not know of the skull of gul dan(illidan took the skull and sealed the fate of the legion on azeroth)
I think I have explanation for Murozondu. Old gods, simply as that, he still has some powers, they simply ignited the spark within him, if u know what I mean. :D We know they know about time traveling and stuff. Their influence could easily explain a lot of stuff, especially war of the ancients and time traveling.
Murizond's vision of something worse than "everyone dead" could probably be the titans coming back, being disappointing with Azeroth, and destroying it to remake it. He probably wanted the old gods to escape so they could fight the titans and keep azeroth alive. These events of the titans trying to "purify" Azeroth is probably what Murizond meant when he said the "true" End Time. This "true end time" could probably be project titan that blizz is currently working on? Just my 2 cents. :P
If they want to introduce any time travel expansion in wow it should be in the form of revamps of outlands and northrend and maybe even cata. So at lvl 60 youd get a quest to go back in time and help stop illidan, and at 70 you'd get a quest to go and help stop arthus. and at 80 youd go back and stop deathwing and so on. All time travel would take place in the caverns of time and the revamps of outlands and northrend would just be updated for future content for whatever the devs come up with.
My theory is that they're preventing their loss of power. Durnholde - Thrall escapes. Thrall uses Nozdormus last powers to destroy Deathwing. That's why they want him gone. Black Morass - No Thrall, Nekros or Zuluhed. Hyjal - Murozond is trying to reclaim the powers he bestowed upon the tree, and is using the chaos from the events that transpired that day to prevent mortals from intervening. Quite succesfully too. Now Stratholme and End Time. I don't have an obvious solution to those
Not being stand loose ends and paradoxes I try to make sense of it as I progress. In CoT-HJ I believe the Infinite mess up stuff at an earlier point, and we come and clean up after them, instead of preventing the mess. As for the Murozond, I have always understood it as Nozdormu having lost most of his powers in DS (which makes sense, since we are able to 5-man Muro) seeking refuge in this alternate timeline (if it isn't his own timeline) and then meddling with the past from here. Just guessing.
what i want to add: time travel stories only (kinda) work if the whole story is planned out and thought through very well from the beginning (like the legacy of kain series maybe, although that's flawed too). in warcraft they just add stuff consecutively which inevitably creates logic errors or corrupts already existing lore. i don't want to see time travel in wow.
The way we've altered the timelines by taking the Dragon Soul may prevent Nozdormu from becoming Murozond. If you think about it, we took a key historical element away from its natural time and transplanted it into the future - something that creates paradoxes and anomolies - with Deathwings defeat by Thrall being outside of what the Bronze dragonflight could see. I think Nozdormu losing his power saves his life, and the muddled timelines are fodder for possible expansions
Nobble, one thing I think your getting confused on is when you keep the impression that if a Titan sayes it, than it can't be any other way. But the simple fact that the titans needed someone to guard time means that it can be tampered with. Another thing is that your also under the impression that Norzdomu is perfect, both the Titans, and Dragons plans have failed or faltered in some way, so I think we just need to accept that time travel will always screw with everything, wecanonly do ourbest
Maybe that's why Nozdormu fell to the whispers of the Old Gods and became Murozond. Since he lost his powers, maybe the Old Gods promised him greater power and immortality and so he became Murozord. Maybe that's also why he is darkened. When Garosh absorbed the heart of Y'shaarj he did look like an abomination (maybe because his body was weaker then the one of a former aspect and he couldn't hold the power) but his color did partially change.
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Reasons why it was important that Arthas was saved besides finding Yogg-Saron:
- Without Arthas the Forsaken wouldn't exist
- Without Arthas telling Illidan about the skull of Guldan, Illidan wouldn't have become more powerful and the demons would have destroyed the forest.
- Without Arthas defeating Illidan, the events of the tBC wouldn't have played out as they did. Outland would still be under demonic control and from there the Burning Legion could attack Azeroth yet again.
-Without Arthas the Blood Elves would not exist (High Elves and Blood Elves are now seperate races), so they wouldn't join the Horde.
- Without Arthas the Scourge would still have been under the control of the Burning Legion.
-Without Arthas the Draenei likely wouldn't be part of the Alliance as it took a chain of specific events for them to come to Azeroth.
All in all though terrible, Arthas' influence was important in causing several important events in our current timeline.
>Without Arthas the Blood Elves would not exist (High Elves and Blood Elves are now seperate races)
I think they would've preferred to not lose 90% of their fellow high elves to some edgy rɘtard on a horse just to then reluctantly join the horde. (Which still doesn't make any sense and never will, especially when the horde tried to literally genocide them)
inb4 but that wasn't da reel horde
Without arthas there would be no ebon blade
Actually, while the "small events can be changed" theory works, there's another;
Timechanges being part of the one true timeline.
In this timeline, the changes to the timeline happen as they are meant to happen and those who know how the timeline was changed are meant to know it as such. Past events(before change) need to happen so that the timetravellers get to the point at which they go back and change things.
Or, alternatively, timeywimeywibblywobbly works too.
Time travel is so confusing
This
The real mindfuck is when you realzie that the purity of time doesnt mean NO time travel, it means some things are meant to be changed and some not. For example Krasus going back in time and garrosh going back in time might be how time is supposed to go. When you say one true time line that doesnt mean time chant be changed it only means what must happened has already happened and must continue to happen, and cannot be allowed to happen any other way. For example, traffic or a river must flow a certain direction, that doesnt mean you cannot cross it or swim up stream, or even change its course. it is the quintessential element that defines time itself that the titan was speaking to, he didnt just make nozdormu a crossing guard.
Time travel is so freakin' weird. Like it's mindfuck on a new level
Bella Da Unicorn Well it doesnt always have to be, from what i understand there are 3 major ideas of time travel theories that most scifi and fantasy writers adhere to unless they are trying to come up with a new theory, the one i THOUGHT blizzard lore was adhering to is the one where if you change something in the past, you are actually entering a parallel dimension and altering similarities that you know from your own time. But that doesnt seem to be the case with guldan coming back in time to free illidan, who only has such an insane power becuase absorbed the power from guldans skull. Some kind of paradox usually occurs here but not if the timelines are not the same and this time travel is actually parallel realities.
+Cheezeblade Well... Time travel is actually (in my opinion) a very ludicrous thing to even contemplate. It's just hard for us recognize how impossible it is. Sure we can say, "Well what IF time travel was a thing?" but that's really like asking, "Well what if something could both exist and not exist?" It's just not something to think about... I could of course be wrong, but the reason I'm saying this is because I'm a believer of a theory that disproves time travel for a completely unthinkable concept. See, if it were a thing, that would violate the Conservation of Mass law because "copies" of the universe would be stored for every single quanta of time. Not only that, but time travel would be saying that atoms altered in a moment already passed would somehow affect the ones already here. Our perception of time is really just the tendency of our minds to store bits of information so as to make them relative to each other.... There are a lot more technicalities to the theory. You can check out the website that gives the whole story. (My granddad wrote it!) timespaceandgravity.com/
Always loved time travel stuff.. interesting movie to check out: Predestination.
Despite loving the concept, i only believe you can go forward in time, if time travel was even possible. (Based off being stoned, watching 12 Monkeys and other films 😋)
Yep, he's an old god. I talk about him in my "The Lore of Titans & Old Gods [Part 2/3]" video.
I'll put it on the list, part of the story for Alcatraz I've coverd in my "Story of Varian Wrynn"video.
Hey Nobbel, first off, great video. Time and time travel has always been my favorite subject for any games or movies. I think the best way to explain the tyrande and the war of the ancients paradox is that Nozdormu erased anything that can drastically alter the time line but kept things that can influence a future that was already there. Tyrande knowing about the orcs can lead to drastic changes but Malfurion was already going to be a druid so some influence there wasnt going to change.
For those who haven't figured it out, Murozond is an anagram of Nozdormu
I love these lore videos of yours! As a former WoW player, these videos help me keep up with the story since I really don't have time to play anymore. Keep it up!
We are still playing on the original/prime timeline, only it has been altered.
That's why I said that you would expecttheir involvement to have more of an effect, perhaps even create a new timeline...but it didn't. Them going back in time is part of our history now. This is proven in Stormrage and our overal history.
I don't work for Blizzard so I can't say for sure. They've left a couple of doors and windows open when it comes to the scourge story. Kel'thuzad is part of that so if they want, they got plenty of stories left to tell.
I play a D&D campaign with a bunch of my friends in which Nozdormu has been an incredible tool to allow my players to play through various events in Azeroth's history. In my game I go by the Dragonlance (a delightful fantasy series created by Margret Weis and Tracy Hickman) theory that time is a raging river and going back to the past is like trying to change the river's course with a handful of pebbles. There are key moments that are destined to happen.
Hey there Nobbel! In regards to the caverns of time battle for Mount Hyjal, I heard that the original concept was to have us disguised as undead/scourge and actually aid Archimonde reach the world tree. We would fight through waves of infinite dragons and eventually fight a massive dragon at the end, allowing Archimonde to start absorbing the tree and eventually die to the wisps. The idea was eventually scrapped and we were given what we have today.
I love these lore videos so so much, makes me appreciate Warcraft a lot more.
I haven't played WoW in quite a while, but I still like to watch these videos. Good job!
I wish that was true, but WotA novel did take place in our timeline and affected it. Our Furbolgs aided the war, our blue dragonflight survived, our Malfurion escaped the nightmare with the aid of Thura and Axe of Cenarius.
This is becoming my favorite TH-cam channel! Keep up the awesome work nobble
Maybe Nozdormu seeing his corrupted self die was the death the titans intended to show him, and you were their device of showing it to him.
Time is...wilbbly wobbly, whether in Doctor Who or World of Warcraft. But I'm glad you made it a little bit easier to understand for the WoW universe, thanks!
In my opinion it makes me alot easier to understand these lores when you tell us, rather than read it myself... So damn interesting! Keep up the good work Nobbel!
I loved the time travel stuff. Back in Classic WoW I always tried to glitch my way into the Caverns of Time. One time I made it and it was amazing to see such a warped world. Little houses built into the rocks, boats, skelettons, stuff you wouldn't expect in a cave :D and above all the glittering ceiling. Great times.
Medivh said it best when describing how the location for the placement of Karazahn came about. That sometimes events happen out of order for them to happen, like the site where his tower being built happening so that the tower could be built there. Also we know that Nozdormu swore both Malfurion and Tyrande to keep the secrets of what they saw as he and the others left.
Congrats on 400 videos! loved every lore video has gotten me back into the game. keep up the awesome work love all the videos I've seen so far!
Well as I said in the video:
Original timeline = NE won the WotA without the aid of Krasus/Rhonin/Brox. Brox wasn't there so Axe of Cenarius was never made for him. They also didn't have the aid of Furbolgs/Tauren/Earthen.
Group is send back in time, save the day, Noz sends them back home.
New timeline: Axe of Cenarius is created, Earthen, Furbolgs, Tauren aided the war. Krasus, Rhonin, Brox aided the Night Elves in their battle.
The idea that events change after someone travels through time, like tyrande remebering orcs, is what i like to call the back to the future effect- marty went back in time and nearly made it so his parents didnt end up together and he wouldnt exist but he later fixed it.
Disclaimer: I don't know as much about the lore as I should, so there could be some errors in the history. Be kind you internet monsters.
I feel the most overlooked possibility of any time travel timeline is the possibility that those who go into the past are meant to go into the past, where the outcome of the event in the past isn’t changed. I am not as knowledgeable about this as most, but the idea that Boxigar and rhonin did go back and alter the world is the true timeline as the event was destined to have them intervene. The argument is that then time isn’t linear, which is difficult to not only understand but then implement into a “linear” story line.
The idea of non-linear time isn’t difficult in theory as long as we acknowledge that the beings that experience linear time can not experience non-linear time because of their sensory tools. Much as Vampire Bats can see in infrared, their sensory of the world has been changed that is completely different to what we understand. To further prove that linear time is a physical imitation of understanding look at the limits of all other bats. Bats have known of sonar for as long as they have been on earth, we as humans learned of sonar within the last 100 years, after developing tools to harness and read the sonar, thus making bats in general perceive life in a different light than we do.
I know that sonar and infrared is a stretch to understanding linear and non-linear time limited to physical constraints here on Earth. But to my understanding there are entities in the WoW universe that are capable of understating non-linear time. To my understanding Prince Malchezaar sought after the tower of Karazhan and while there he claimed that is knew beyond time. And perhaps cenarius himself understood non-linear time and when he was saved he wasn’t exactly saved as much as he knew that he would be receiving help, because that is the true timeline. But again, I am not sure about the lore, so this is just a thought.
I think the most interesting evidence is that Broxigar actually exists in the time”line” that we are lead to believe is true. The story of Broxigar states that the portal would have been successful is Broxigar didn’t sacrifice himself to close it, thus sargeras would have been on Azeroth and burned it to the ground, which we all know he didn’t. Therefor something to someone had to give in order to keep sargeras out of the world, step in time traveled Broxigar. He saves the world, sargeras doesn’t exist, the world continues and Broxigar is born and becomes a hero and is asked by Nozdormu to step into the past to help out keeping sargeras out of Azeroth. For those who didn’t go back in time, the world continues with the Burning Legion that hasn’t taken over yet in our “true timeline”. The paradox of the chicken or the egg is the basis to understanding non-linear time travel and perhaps a solution to physical limitations interpreting and understanding time.
Remember, humans are the smartest animal because humans made all the experiments to measure intelligence.
Can't wait till next monday! :D
Great video, and happy 400th video! Keep it up, bro! It's amazing! :)
They never explained what he has seen in that moment, but I think it was. Especially with that little speech he gives at the end about closing loops. Although...Moruzond with his last breath does say "You know not what you have done. Aman'thul...What... I... have... seen... Did we mess up the original timeline by killing him at the wrong moment? Who knows :D
Just found your videos man! I love WoW lore and you explain it so clearly and nicely. Thanks!
It's possible, but it doesn't have to be. One conclusion you could draw is that we are riding on a different timeline and that Moruzond was on the original one, but that doesn't have to be the case. The future death of Nozdormu could have happened on an alternative timeline which is already further into the future than ours. I believe this is the case, otherwise our Nozdormu has been telling us lies and putting us on jobs to preserve the timeline, which isn't even the right timeline to preserve.
00:15
Just that Aman'Thul told Nozdormu he had one Timeline to Manage doesn't mean only one Time Line exists!
Eventually by going through many timelines he manages them for being Largely consistent, one of them is ourselves.
But then Azeroth might have many many Timelines,
Hate to answer a question with a question, but ...If a timeline is meant to change, why place a guardian to prevent it from changing? That would imply that no matter what happens, time will always stay in the original timeline, no matter what changes are made which means that the task of the Bronze Dragonflight is useless.
awesome video! can't wait for next week's part 2 (presumably) :)
Geweldige videos nobbel, je hebt wel een beetje me kijk op wow veranderd er zit zoveel meer in kwa lore dan ik dacht. Ga zo door !
Greetings from Ravencrest
just a small thing to add, the Dragon blight quest where chromie send you to help "future you" find out who the leader of the infinite Dragon flight are, it shows nozdormu. just an interesting preconception we didn't realize at the time
I think what the titan was referring to was that you must make the big events happen, the only things you can change are the small things around the edges. They could not prevent the sundering but they could help against the demons.
My favorite part of a Sunday the Nobbel lore video
Well tbh at that point in time neither one of them really stood up against Garrosh. Baine told him that there must never be another Theramore if Garrosh ever wants the aid of the Tauren again... Oeeeee you go Baine! Vol'jin was the one who openly spoke out against Garrosh even before Theramore and he was the one who got the Horde rebellion together.
Your fricken awesome Nobbel and thanks for all the explanations of the lore. I have been enjoying all of them and if its not to much to ask could you do one on the Troll race, please...
my favorite part about your videos is the fun little tune at the start
Possible, but that would make the mission of the Bronze Dragonflight kinda silly. Protect the timewaves from changing, unless they're supposed to change...then it's oke.
Maybe, now that the aspects are mortal, Nozdormu is faced with his own mortality, and (probably influenced by the old gods) tries to regain his power, to once again be inmortal , and that's when he becomes Moruzand.
The bronze dragonflight was tasked with preventing that someone tries to travel in time and significatly alter past events because that could destroy the fabric of space and time. That's why they are fighting the infinite dragon flight. Now that they have prevented the infinite dragon flight from interfering, nozdormu can lose his powers and trust the task of protecting time and space to someone else
about the changing the timeline, tbf it could easily be thought that the people going back in time and intervening is part of the timeline (see time splitters 3 when future you gives you the key to the door upstairs, for you to then give the key to your past self again)
"It should be noted that Metzen and his writing team support the information put forward in the novels as actual events, and the events in other Warcraft novels are proven to be the true lore. Since there is no difference in the timelines of Azeroth following the conclusion of the War, the point of which version is correct is not vital to a general understanding of the history. It is only in terms of a few specifics that it becomes problematic."
maybe its part of the true timeline to change the old one
Hey nobbel! In answering your question of how Tyranda doesn't recognize orcs, considering she's seen Brox, Blizz kind of answered that in the Escape from Durnhold. They make it sound like if the true timeline was ever tampered with, then they would send in a Bronze dragon to fix the anomaly, or to wipe the minds of everyone involved of the events that transpired, and replace those missing memories with the events that should have happened.
I think the Timeless Isle holds more significance than just being a mere sandbox for level 90 alts. I think it's a message from Blizzard telling us that the powers Nozdormu lost will soon return, because they have not fulfilled their duty. That was the reasoning we got in Cata, so when the Old Gods return wholly and fully with another puppet (Azshara), the Dragon Aspects will get their powers back through deus ex machina.
gz for 400 videos nobbel i hope you reach till 1000 vids keep up the good work
I really enjoy your story telling! You have such a great voice and behavior-ism for fantasy!
It actually makes sense that Murozond in the timeline we kill him, was equal in power to Nozdormu the aspect. The Murozond we kill comes from a timeline where Deathwing wins, meaning we failed to get the Demon Soul from the past, thus the Aspects didn't loose their powers. If Nozdormu becomes corrupted, we'll fight our own version of Murozond, different from the one we already defeated.
remember what was said after we killed Deathwing, now is the time of mortals, this means that the dragon aspects have given up their powers over Azeroth, the timelines are no longer sealed etc... Nozdorumu can no longer see the far future as it has ultimately changed and the end time has been stopped with the death of Deathwing, at least that particular end time anyway.
Nozdormu says after killing murozond that what he had been shown- his own death had now come to pass. He had always been shown his death through murozond so...its confusing. He also says that he would one day become murozond only to be killed by the heroes before him and for him to see it happen again "and so the cycle continues..." is how he puts it. Time travel is way to complicated nobbel but i like that u decided to look into this stuff.
The oldgods temptations.
Nozdurmu said he would become Murozond and he knew his future would be him turning to the infinite dragon master.
Nozdurmu foresaw this part of his future and has accept it as true timeline.
This might be his final chapter and he knows it, this is where he awaits the inevitable temptations of the oldgods to get his power back to create this real "Infinite timeline" by the orders of the oldgods.
Love your show, Teraness, Frostmane - EU
If Murozond fell victim to the whispers of the old gods, he was also empowered by the old gods, and those are more powerful than the Titans, so Murozond would be more powerful than Nozdormu... That's it.
+klonvomhaus I was about to comment with a similar idea. I like the idea that Murozond could be empowered by some other way after losing his dragon aspect powers. The cycle can still repeat :D.
Hodge Smith
If you ask Blizzard, it is part of the Nether. Nether connects all times and places. So it is a timey-wimey wobely-dobely thingywingy... (and yes, I am somewhat quoting The Doctor here.)
the twisting nether connects all the timelines? jeez..poor legion..invading the wrong azeroth here
I can't see how you believe that the old gods are stronger than the titans when small being the titans made with a miniscule amount of their power defeated them and imprisoned them.
That's Fordragon Blades, drops from Anub'arak in Trial of the Crusader. Had to find a new one for my polearm ;)
Is it weird that i watch you'r videos like a good night story to fall asleep ?
I get so happy every time I see a new video posted by Nobbel = D.
Nobbel, what do you think of this theory?
Maybe Nozdormu told the other aspects about his future self and wanted to change the future by removing their powers (or locking it inside a vessel, possibly a new, combined dragonflight leader which could make total sence if it was Thrall's child) to weaken themselves, so that they will not become a great threat to azeroth.
geez, reminds me of how Nozdormu sent adventurers to retrieve Dragon Soul from 10000 years ago. that would mean that it was no longer present after it in time...and it was really influantial in the possession of Deathwing during orc wars. he killed dragons with it, orcs trapped Alexstrasza using it's power. removing that powerful artifact from that whole timeline =/ I wish there was no timetraveling at all
When a story touches timetravel it surely fucks something up.
Hey Nobbel, if you consider that this "one and true timeline" is the time focusing around a single person instead of the whole world. As we allow Medivh, Arthas and Thralls stories happen, it is all about one person.
I thought of something, he saw the loss of his powers. Events unfold and he is now being ordered around by the old gods. The old gods could grant him his time powers back with (maybe) the sacrifice of a powerful being, maybe even another old god. Or even the old gods are that powerful that they can just give him the power with no sacrifice.
@Nobbel87 Nozdormu is suppose to make sure the one TRUE timeline is in motion, there are other timelines but Nozdormus job is to make sure those other timelines dont happen and only the ONE that the titans have charged him with comes into light, so technically things from the other timelines can travel to the timeline Nozdormu protects(the infinite dragonflight) and try to fuck with it so that there timeline comes true and not the others
Hey Nobbel, I love watching your videos and I think that you should make lore podcasts, or make your current videos downloadable. If there is a way to do this, please let me know. I love listening to your lore, and it would be great to listen to it wherever I can go.
Nice videos, man! Really enjoyable.
Can you please make a video explaining all the kingdoms and where they are and include the leaders and key characters! You're videos are great and easy to follow except that part! If it is too much work don't bother, but i think im not the only one who is confused with this stuff! LOVE YOUR VIDS! :D
They've changed some things around to make one "Official timeline". I'm waiting for the moment when they reverse this, but for now...this is the official timeline. Despite what other sources say.
As Nozdorumu said, we heroes are the ones who kill him, so maybe in order to stay alive he teams with the old gods to kill the heroes. Maybe the hour of twilight isn't total destruction for those the old gods like, maybe its some sort of post-apocolyptic haven for crazies.
You should team up with TheDDGuides and make a amazing lore video sometime. You both are like the kings of lore
Congrats on 400 videos Nobbel :)
(pt2) Not to save himself but save Azorth a worse fate the even the Hour of Twilight. But again this not set in stone, this is a possible version of Norzdmu, and we could have quest/patch content where we help prevent this Timeline from happening. Gifting Norzdmu with now being able to see all time, but his death is no longer fixed, his fate is his own for good or ill (which the Titan of Time may appear to tell him).
Nozdormu is as stated currently mortal, but he still retains all of his knowledge of the time ways! A possibility, especially with his statement that he would 'fall into darkness', is that with the corruption of the Old Gods, they much as the Titans, gives him powers that although not exactly like he had from the Titans, would perhaps be almost equal! The Old Gods have been known to 'bestow' great powers upon their most promising minions!
I think your right, he accepts the Old Gods help or an unnamed Old God of Time (they seem to be chaotic counterparts of the titans) out of desperation. He pleads with us during the fight that the Hour of Twilight is blessing compared with what is coming. Which falls into how he was tricked, with out power of time sight Norzdormu can't tell if the future he see's real or not and out of desperation becomes Mudorzon,
It should also be mentioned that in the Dungeon Journal for Murozond it states that the titans showed him his own death and it drove him insane. The old gods tricked him into believing that bringing them to power would allow him to survive.
The thing is, the forces of nature that the Aspects represent will always be there. Life, Earth, Dream, Magic, and Time. Which, since these things have and will exist until they are destroyed, my theory is that the Aspects powers regenerate over time like mana. Over time... sound like something that Nozdormu's flight would control? So that could be the purpose of the Infinite flight, either they are trying to make sure that the Aspects never lose their power, or to give it back to them.
This is the way I interpret it: From warcraft 1 to Vanilla WoW time flowed smoothly, and everything fell into place as it was supposed to (we witness the original experience), however the infinite dragonflight possibly caused the time anomaly (haven't read the novels, but it sounds like something that they would cause :P) that threw Norzdormu back in time, causing small changes to the war of the ancients, but the outcome was largely the same and so reality was held together. And thus time was then changed. ever so slightly from then on.
Your video answers how Moruzond can exist... @8:54 "Now living outside of time". Because he stopped being apart of a timeline, you cannot simply prevent Nozdormu from being corrupted and cause Moruzond to cease to exist; you must wait for Moruzond to "enter" a timeline so that he becomes vulnerable to the passage of time, and kill-able.
I think about the true timeline thing was more of a warning to Noz when he received his power as the Aspect of Time, like "Don't forget which timeline you are supposed to be in." In the book Thrall: Hour of Twilight, Thrall has to go through the timelines to find Noz who has been missing because he lost himself in the timelines. I don't think there is an actual 'true timeline' as it keeps getting altered, but for us this is the true timeline, if that makes any sense.
Being able to* Also for the WoE-trilogy, I find it likely for the Bronze to just go back to correct certain details after recovering Nozdormu, making sure that the orcs can still invade in WC3, but not change it entirely back to the original timeline. Mind you, they are still in their prime, and now have their Aspect back on track, after him being lost in the timeways. We have seen them "fix" Thrall and Taretha, and likely Medivh and Arthas offscreen, as neither mentions the encounter after that
Hey Nobbel, speaking of time, did you notice that one of Lorewalker Cho's ancestors wears a Keepers of Time tabard? You can see it when he discusses the history of player's race in early Jade Forest quests.
Nozdormu hears the whispers of the old gods, knowing that they are bad he cautiously and knowingly takes the power. Seeing both the chaotic end and the peaceful end he pushes his last effort to push Azeroth to the final silence for peace. But since we've taken him out we unknowingly get pushed into the true end time. Murozond was trying to save us!
Nobbel, what i would like to say is that you are right. Warcraft 3 happens before the novel War of the Ancients and the actions that take place within it. The game Warcraft 3 was released before the book and therefore the events in the book didn't happen when Warcraft 3 was released. It wouldn't be until the books release that the timeline would change and Tyrande would remember the orcs. If this makes sense let me know
It would actually be an amazing plot twist if we finally fail to stop them from screwing around at a specific time event and then BAM, we are being sent back to our timeline and see everything changed. The Lich King probably alive, Leaders personalities completely different, Thrall is still a warchief with Garrosh at his side, zones look different, some alliances broken while enemies befriended. And we see how some events are repeating, yet are different. I'd pay any amount to see that :P
congrats on your 400th video !
one of my fave places in wow, caverns of time and the mysteries behind it :)
Also how he gets back his aspect power my guess would be that it is not completely lost but sealed so to say. The old gods might be able to give him back his powers. They are not able to make an aspect them self but if they corrupt one then they might be able to awaken the sleeping power within.
This is how I see Nozdormu becoming Murozond:
In the vision of time wee see Soridomi being killed, and next to her we see a blurry figure that looks like the person that gave you the quest (learned this from DD). So he could possibly be the one to make Nozdormu able to become Murozond.
4:06 the main reson could be that if arthas would not have betrayed the human kingdoms they would not flee to kalimdor and illidan would not know of the skull of gul dan(illidan took the skull and sealed the fate of the legion on azeroth)
I think I have explanation for Murozondu.
Old gods, simply as that, he still has some powers, they simply ignited the spark within him, if u know what I mean. :D
We know they know about time traveling and stuff. Their influence could easily explain a lot of stuff, especially war of the ancients and time traveling.
Murizond's vision of something worse than "everyone dead" could probably be the titans coming back, being disappointing with Azeroth, and destroying it to remake it. He probably wanted the old gods to escape so they could fight the titans and keep azeroth alive. These events of the titans trying to "purify" Azeroth is probably what Murizond meant when he said the "true" End Time.
This "true end time" could probably be project titan that blizz is currently working on?
Just my 2 cents. :P
If they want to introduce any time travel expansion in wow it should be in the form of revamps of outlands and northrend and maybe even cata. So at lvl 60 youd get a quest to go back in time and help stop illidan, and at 70 you'd get a quest to go and help stop arthus. and at 80 youd go back and stop deathwing and so on. All time travel would take place in the caverns of time and the revamps of outlands and northrend would just be updated for future content for whatever the devs come up with.
My theory is that they're preventing their loss of power.
Durnholde - Thrall escapes. Thrall uses Nozdormus last powers to destroy Deathwing. That's why they want him gone.
Black Morass - No Thrall, Nekros or Zuluhed.
Hyjal - Murozond is trying to reclaim the powers he bestowed upon the tree, and is using the chaos from the events that transpired that day to prevent mortals from intervening. Quite succesfully too.
Now Stratholme and End Time. I don't have an obvious solution to those
Not being stand loose ends and paradoxes I try to make sense of it as I progress. In CoT-HJ I believe the Infinite mess up stuff at an earlier point, and we come and clean up after them, instead of preventing the mess. As for the Murozond, I have always understood it as Nozdormu having lost most of his powers in DS (which makes sense, since we are able to 5-man Muro) seeking refuge in this alternate timeline (if it isn't his own timeline) and then meddling with the past from here. Just guessing.
what i want to add: time travel stories only (kinda) work if the whole story is planned out and thought through very well from the beginning (like the legacy of kain series maybe, although that's flawed too). in warcraft they just add stuff consecutively which inevitably creates logic errors or corrupts already existing lore. i don't want to see time travel in wow.
The way we've altered the timelines by taking the Dragon Soul may prevent Nozdormu from becoming Murozond.
If you think about it, we took a key historical element away from its natural time and transplanted it into the future - something that creates paradoxes and anomolies - with Deathwings defeat by Thrall being outside of what the Bronze dragonflight could see.
I think Nozdormu losing his power saves his life, and the muddled timelines are fodder for possible expansions
Nobble, one thing I think your getting confused on is when you keep the impression that if a Titan sayes it, than it can't be any other way. But the simple fact that the titans needed someone to guard time means that it can be tampered with. Another thing is that your also under the impression that Norzdomu is perfect, both the Titans, and Dragons plans have failed or faltered in some way, so I think we just need to accept that time travel will always screw with everything, wecanonly do ourbest
It can be hard to say for sure. What I can say is that if I were the Doctor then I would spend all of my time in TBC. That version of WoW was awesome.
Maybe that's why Nozdormu fell to the whispers of the Old Gods and became Murozond. Since he lost his powers, maybe the Old Gods promised him greater power and immortality and so he became Murozord. Maybe that's also why he is darkened. When Garosh absorbed the heart of Y'shaarj he did look like an abomination (maybe because his body was weaker then the one of a former aspect and he couldn't hold the power) but his color did partially change.
LOL, I cant resist to laugh everytime I see the pics from Back to the Future and the TARDIS in the time travel diagram xD
Don't forget your other video of the aspects fighting the darkness with Anduin leading the charge. The aspects must reform!