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Wary interesting, I am so glad that I found your channel!! :-)
I hope that you please will answer this question:
I am about to buy a Siglent scope and is trying to decide on a scope like yours but with 2 X probes OR about 2 X bandwidth and sample rate, what would you choose?
Are you trying to decide between 200 MHz an 2 channels or 100 MHz and 4 channels? If so, I went with the 200 MHz and 2 channels because I thought I’d go with the best option to capture clean signals and if I found myself needing wanting 4 channels - I’d just upgrade. That said, 100 MHz is probably plenty fast and 4 channels would keep me from wanting... They say to have a bandwidth 5x the frequency that you may want to capture. Actually, I think this topic deserves a short video!
In regards to sample rate - you only need 2.5x the bandwidth. So, 2.5 x 100 MHz = 250 million samples per second. Nyquist Theorem calls for 2x but the 2.5 assures good sampling. I think they all cover this now. Deep memory is the game changer.
@@KissAnalog I am trying to decide between the SDS1204X-E or the SDS2352X-E if that helps? :-)
The SDS2102x is on a 30% sale so that brings it to that price range that your looking at. Deep memory and big screen.
I think any one of them is a great deal.
@@KissAnalog Thanks for answering! Sorry I do not understand?
Fried Mule sorry it sent before I was finished;)
Found this interesting even now, 5 years later. These are a great entry level scope. Comparing to siglent, well yeah this will show a big difference as even siglent is in a different price range for the same marketed specs.
Thanks so much! I'm going to do a new updated 'TOP Oscilloscope under $500' video:)
I bought a Owon XDS3204AE 4 channel 200 MHz scope. It was delivered with Firmware 1.6 and now the FFT cursors are fine. With the 12 bit ADC I have full bandwith with 5mV/Div. up to 200 MHz. I have measured the signals from my FM antenna from 88 - 108 MHz. It works fine and I can measure 10 µV small signals with the great 12 bit ADC. With a sample rate of 250 MSamples / s you get 125 MHz maximum frequency, wihich is enough for the FM broadcast band. The FFT does 8192 points, so the resolution is 250Meg/8192= 30 kHz. This is a good value to separate the different FM stations from each other.
That is fantastic Frank!! I really wanted that 12 bits;) Thank you for this update! Does the FFT window show a scale now - both vertical and horizontal?
BTW, did they enable taht multifunction knob to control placement of cursors or do you find the touch screen works for you?
@@KissAnalog no, unfortunately there is no scale in the FFT. I will try the multifunction knob in the next days. Where do I have to watch your video showing poor multifunction behaviour?
I C wish I could give them feedback but their agents here don’t seem to care. Instead of trying to work with me they just asked me to return the scope. And it took forever to get in the first place.
@@KissAnalog The position of the cursors is controlable with the MF knob. The big cursor readout field is not moveable. You can only switch it on or off. For the FM spectrum of my antenna I used 10 dB/Div instead of 20 dB/div to get better use of the big screen. But there is a bug. Sometimes you can not select 10 dB... And of course there are some other bugs. You cant save the FFT setting in memory. Automatic peak measurement detects the 0 Hz DC line, if other FM stations are weaker than your DC offset. And so on. So in my opinion the FFT is more or less a toy.
What a great review with a very challenging square wave signal almost in the noise floor. The Owon with a fft update sure looks good.
Thank you Clive! I actually have a new Owen scope review coming out very soon! ;)
Appreciate the time and thoughts. Take care!
Thanks do much! I appreciate you!
Hi Eddie,
I bought my first Siglent scope about 8 years ago, never had any problems it, Sds1072cml.
I was so impressed with the brand, I've bought a 20Mhz signal gen, updated to Sds1102x scope and bought a bench 5.5 digit multimeter.
I tried a Rigol scope, ended up returning it with in a couple of weeks, just over complicated user interface.
Siglent offers new firmware on a regular basis, I feel they actually care about the people that own their products.
I looked at various scopes from other manufacturers, just too expensive for the equivalent specifications of the siglent.
Its a shame the Owon sounds good on paper, but in reality, it should have been tested for operational specifications before it left the factory, rather than the customer being disappointed. My personal preference is not to buy multifunction test equipment, buy individual items, scope, signal gen, multimeter, less to go wrong😉😉
I enjoy your video's, cheers
Adam
Thank you for the great review. It really helps people to hear the product experience of others. I agree with your comments about Siglent, and I think Rigol needs an update. Owon has promise, but we’ll have to see. I appreciate your comments-thank you.
Great information! Thank you for your high opinion of the Siglent! I just ordered one the other day! Keep the videos going!!
Cassi Lemon That’s great - which one did you get?
I’m glad to hear from you!
It's been my limited experience with my garbage hantek that if you're going to buy a scope then do your research and buy the best you can afford because there's certain options you don't need now but who knows what you'll be needing next week. I was told by an engineer that mine could decode ttl, i2c, canbus, ntsc, etc. Live and learn, it's why I've been replacing alot of my gear and buying stuff I need. I've got an isolated transformer and variac, good awg sig gen. High quality consumables when it comes to soldering and different stations for smd and tht. New pc for for compiling code, running render stuff for printing, got an ok multimeter. The oscilloscope will be last being the one I want is 2k cad and the wife wants a new kitchen I have to build soon. I was gonna upgrade my multimeter but in Canada high digit certified dmms are pricey as hell. The brymen bm786 costs more than a fluke 87. I'm tempted to buy a logic analyzer but I'd rather pay for a scope with one. I'm selling my 3d printers and consumables and a few vintage collectibles to raise 1500 for a new printer that's 3 times as fast as the 5 printers I've had over the years and I can make money off it printing engineering materials to make custom car parts and such and also marvel helmets in one print instead of having 2 printers go for 3 days I can have 1 go for 20 hours and use abs instead of soft plastic. Haha. I meant to say as well that I was told my 150 dollar owon dmm was good but has zero input protection. I'd never check amps with it. Even my new dmm I wouldn't check amps with, I want a certified meter for that haha7
Thanks for your feedback!
gee i would like to buy a used car from you... you seem to be very honest and fair on sizing up the test equipment... thanks...:)
LOL Thank you! I appreciate you!
Looks like the Owon's firmware needs work. I was glad to learn that touch screen is a gimmick I do not need.
I hope they have fixed that since. It did have a really nice screen to look at it - even though I couldn't stop accidentally touching it - when I didn't mean to;)
For normal tests of these devices, you must plug a pair of routers, a heater, a power supply, a computer, a pair of laptops, a radio station, a refrigerator .... And then take measurements))
Awesome;)
You've probably figured this out by now, but... at around 24:00 note that when you press noise button toggles the trigger coupling changes from "DC" to "HF". I believe that enables HF rejection coupling which rejects high frequency components above 1.2 MHz. That would explain why your 10 MHz signal looks weird.
Another great video... Good info..
I appreciate you!
Ive got an Owon TAO3104A tablet scope. The secrets lie in the touch screen not the knobs. You will see M (time base) V ( volts division) P (horizontal and vertical waveform position). There are others. I reckon the bench scopes are similar. For mine, a full op. manual download was easy..maybe try that . I mean, has ANYONE....EVER...Read a manual before using something ????😮😢
LOL - who reads manuals;) Actually I do - when all else fails;)
The owon has a "magnifier" function to take advantage of the higher resolution of the 14bit vertical.. But the downside of running 14bit is that you only get 100Msa/s max
Thanks for pointing this out. The 14 bits is very useful for audio work as the lower sample rate is not a problem. Actually if you follow the Nyquist sampling theorem, it drops the scope to a bandwidth of 50 Mhz - so still very useful.
20:00 There is solution, you can setup sampling to 4,16,128, so on.. on OWON. To see exactly same image as on Siglet "not bouncing" / There is even button for that called "Aquire" then you change from simple to 4.16 you also have to set trigger at good level and voila. Will look the same - smooth and stable.
Thank you for the great feedback!! I will do another Owon review. They have corrected some issues and I have a new video that I release on the Owon, but I'll have more to come: th-cam.com/video/_bYCnCIAVKI/w-d-xo.html
@@KissAnalog Hi. Thanks for noticing mine comment. I saw OWON to be also trademarked as Hanmatek. Their model DOS1102 looks exactly like DSO1102. Check this new "brand" out. Hope to see review of OWON 1104 or something like that. And Hantek USB with 8 bit digital input analyser. And with generator. Not just basic models. To see do they kept 5mV sensitivity in more advanced model or it was wiped out as tradeof.. What Hantek and FRNISI offers at this price range is unaccceptable 50mV basically like a toy. But there is catch. What i saw annoying on OWON *new owner previously had Hantek USB + HP TC1100 Tablet PC. Is FFT analisys. I mean X axis of it (frequency). You can change band range, kinda, but instead / in addition it moves across the X axis. Witch is understandable to some extend, but it doesnt work as should, there is no control over "offset" so basically there is no way to see clearly certain range of band. Same with amplitude Y axis. It's more like a toy than FFT in real life. Nevertheless i chosen this one knowing reviews of Hantek more expensive scopes, knowin it has almost everything as more expensive scopes.including what i mentioned in previous comment. So far so good. FY6800 enerator plus OWOn instead Hantek. Would get this one blindly again. The only thing i haven't been able to test - square wave over 20MHz. Is't FY6800 limitation or is't scope limitation? I mean - no matter what you choose everything is sinewave. Even with 20MHz limitation turned off.
What i saw also annoying during usage is that: even for entry level scope should have 3 or 4 input oscilocope. It's minimum. For trigger. I owned FY6800 generator plus Owon instead of Hantek with generator combined. Better ADC - 5mV sensitivity instead of 50mV of Hantek. But now i see that lack of 3rd input it's very limiting. Not so sure are their more expensive models that attractive without decent FFT. It's really that bad. It's pretty usefull thing even for a beginner. Only reason i upgraded to see 27Mhz band radio, what is going on with ESP32 so on so forth. PAL, decoding - pretty handy for any retro computing guy. If i could choose again i no question about it. Would get it again. But if i had to spend more money would preffer to spend more over some real thing Siglent thing.
It would be great if they notice your review, and they added X, Y offsets, to their firmware on FFT screen. So far it's the only thing i saw to be broken then it would be perfect sope for everyone. It have to be someone that powerfull, some youtuber to "force them" to release update :D
@@KissAnalog Since you like the Micsig table scopes so much.. I wish you would try the Owon TAO3104a (which is 14bit also- similar specs to this one). There are no videos about it, and it's driving me crazy. :) ..
Not knowing that much about scopes, i know Owons have a " holdoff" Maybe that might clean up refreshing of signal ?
Thanks! I need to do a video on Holdoff - it can be very useful;) I have a new OWON - and the firmware is much better;)
It seems to me that you don't know what you are doing. As far as I can see you have a square wave, therefore a fundamental and a large number of harmonics either sides of the fundamental. Now, the Siglent is showing 12 harmonics after the fundamental and then only noise, the Owon more than 20 (cannot really see how many). Seems that the Siglent is not able to detect more than 12 harmonics, on top of that the signal is very noisy and is difficult to determine if it has an effect on the peak of the signal, furthermore it seems that you have set the 'zero' cursor in different places between the Siglent and the Owon. Anyway, thought both representations are wrong, I believe that is the Owon the most accurate, and not the Siglent, because of the more faithful representation of the square wave, and of the noise pattern, in the spectrum. If you want to run a reliable test, then you shouldn't use a square wave because it contains infinite harmonics (and the FFT algorithm can detect only a certain number), you should generate a clean (not noisy) semi-sine waveform with a known amount of harmonics (say-7-8) and then run the comparison.
Mark Thanks for the feedback. You are right about the display of the OWON, and at first I was excited. But, on closer inspection the amplitude of the fundamental was simply no where near correct on the OWON - let alone the harmonics. Lower noise level is great as well as frequency resolution, it was just the amplitude and lack of vertical scale In the FFT that was off. The square wave is a great way to see all those other points that you brought out. I actually spent a lot of time trying different signals and signal levels - as well as different combinations of time scale, voltage scale, and with sample rate and memory depth. Nothing worked. This video is very long as I wanted to be as fair as possible to OWON. I have more recorded that is no more flattering. But i didn’t want to bash them. I’m hoping that they correct this. Also I was ver sick and only did this video when I was sick because I was running out of time to return it. I spent so much time trying to work with OWON and waiting for them while they looked into it. I’ve been doing this for a long time and know how to use FFT and spectrum analyzers. But if you catch me doing something wrong I’m always trying to learn. I really wanted this scope to work because of the hardware specs and was willing to wait for software updates. I tried to work with OWON and they were very responsive, but didn’t know how to correct the problem. At first they thought that they had a software update but then realized I had the latest software that was just released. So, they asked me to return it but I was willing to take a replacement if it was just a problem with my scope. BTW, the Siglent is less than half the cost, and the E version is even lower cost and has much better FFT than mine. Paul at learnelectronics just picked up an OWON and he is going to look at the FFT of his so maybe we will see that it has been corrected. I hope to hear from you again, I like your attention to detail.
A square wave down in the noise floor is a fantastic challenge test for these scopes.
Owan!! FFT!! ok! very helpful!! thank U Ed..
I wish I had not been sick when this came up. Maybe I could have done a better job... But I gave it a go;)
Thanks.I really wanted a high res Oscilloscope by Owon .this was in 2019. It is 2022 now and i hope the price has gone down and bug free.Thinking 100mhz 1Gs with deep memory and better low amplitude signal capability and lower noise floor.I just have wait and see if they can make better use of the 14bit adc and way better fft function.
Nice job
Mark Greco thank you - I appreciate you!
you need to buy a spectrum analyzer if you want to look at ffts. what i like about the owon scope is that i can run it off a battery but i really love the siglent scope for many reasons.
Pratwurscht Gulasch Great feedback. Check out this scope:) Best MDO Oscilloscope - for the money th-cam.com/video/g-p6POqWmno/w-d-xo.html
Hey hope your feeling better, but I’m afraid I have to agree with a lot of the other guys this wasn’t a good comparison I was shouting at my tv screen sort the triggering out, I’m interested in the sigilent because I’ve heard it can decode serial data, hope you get a chance to try the comparison again when your feeling better and have familiarised yourself more with the operation of each :-)
keefebaby Thank you! I was in a time pinch and had to return the Owon, that’s why I pushed ahead in my sickly state to do this;). But I do have the GW Instek so I can use the two scopes to demonstrate the data decode features.
I just ordered the Siglent SDS1104X-E after watching your video. Thanks for helping me decide.
One question - I always use a keyboard and mouse on the Tek scopes at my work. Can I do that with the Siglent?
That’s great! With the 4 channel version, it supports web control and virtual panel. My Siglent is a 2 channel, so I haven’t been able to try that. Let us know how you like it. Thanks for the feedback!
Any chance of getting a practical use demo on the siglent. I have the 1202X-E and am, trying to learn what I can use it with. I'm like you and buy things before I actually have a use for them. Thought of connecting it to my PCs audio output but don't want to blow it up with common ground!
Thanks for asking! I have a number of videos showing this scope. You can search (kissanalog Siglent) and you should be able to find them. Here is one example: th-cam.com/video/VSCoAX2aJ2M/w-d-xo.html
Man. It can do 14bits, but it slows it down quite a bit. A 8bit vs 8bit comparison would have been more fair. I would have loved to see how the Owon compares when it is in its 8 bit mode. Then see what 14bits adds to it.
I agree the 24 bits sound amazing, and that’s why I purchased this scope. At 34:12 I have a slow 10 Hz signal and I try the different bit levels.
I was so excited, but I just did not see this advantage in the low level signals where it should have shined, but it just didn’t. The bandwidth limits were not the issue. I have rarely returned an item so it was only because I was so disappointed. To be fair I was battling pneumonia and time to return. I might try product again after they have time to fix things. I really believe Owon will be a new king of the block!
You are right! I did actually do this comparison and I just didn’t see a big difference. I also changed the deep memory to see if that helped. I really wanted the 14 bit to make me smile. What I show in the video is the best case scenarios I think. The Owon did do great and offers a lot, but I am not sold on the 14 bits.
At 14 bits, it is limited to 100 MSa/s which should still be good to 50 MHz. My generator is only good to 25 MHz, so it should still have been fast enough to capture the waveforms that I used.
I was sick and had to return the scope, but I wanted to give the Owon a good review. So, I made this video pretty long to try to be fair.
But it wasn’t because of the lack of impressive 14 bit operation, I returned it because I didn’t think the FFT was working correctly.
@@KissAnalog ahhh mate... I've been watching scope reviews for hours upon hours now. I don't need more than 8 bits but looking for 100MHz/4ch. I can get an Owon for £324 (UK) and a Siglent for $440, but judged by all the reviews there is absolutely no contest. The Siglent just works and the Owon is a piece of crap. It can't even see it doing any intensity grading for the best part of your review. I think 8+ bits only benefits when you zoom into captured signals anyway. I am leaning hard towards the Siglent in spite of the extra cost.
I think the Siglent is tough to beat. I’m also becoming a big fan of the GW Instek.
what would you select as a good 4 channel scope without serial connection just 4 channels and have a web based to accsess from the PC ?
Been looking at scope for monster by now almost made my decision can you put the nail in the coffin I’ll buy my original option Singlet
I think Siglent is a great choice. I also really like my GW Instek;)
any info on accuracy? measurement display? I saw the display all, but how is a selected vpp displayed? or did I miss it?
Thanks - that's a great idea. I'll do some measurements comparing it to other scopes that I have.
@@KissAnalog I had bought a cheapo hantek to simply use as a volt meter in roll mode, but it was so far off I sent it back same day. not talking about mV but over 1-2 volts as 12v - but I do admit, I like the volt display on it, thought i was getting away with a 2ch graphical voltmeter vs a bench meter lol
Owon win,
Even in the price ...
Owon has made improvements. Here's a more recent video with Owon being updated. th-cam.com/video/_bYCnCIAVKI/w-d-xo.html
@@KissAnalog Ohh Yeahh , thank you for the video .I see that owon is making further progress. That can only be good for the customers .
Yes for sure!
It's pretty obvious that you are not familiar enough with either scope to do a fair comparison.
My Owon scope boots from power off into Oscilloscope mode (time domain) in less than 15 seconds.
It's not a fair comparison to have one scope booting into time domain mode and the other scope booting into frequency domain (FFT). The Owon was looking to try to analyze data that was not in memory yet. after a time out for trying to analyze no data or random data, it reverted to the default FFT mode.
.
The Owon can do evrything that Siglent did and more.
.
I would rather have a 10 millivolt resolution with very high count adc( 32 to 64 bits for 5mv on a 10 v scale) conversion precision. than a 5 mv or even a 1 mv resolution with a adc than can only capture 8 levels in 5 mv.
That's why you had clean looking sinewaves on the Owon (and thought it was averaging), when thr signal on the Siglent looked all choppy without averaging.....
.
Learn how to use both scopes and do the comparison again to make your comparison more fair...
Hi Dennis, thank you for the great information! There are not too many people out there to share Owen experiences, so it really helps. You are right about my lack of time with the OWON, but I did have more time with the SIGLENT. It turned out that I had pneumonia, but I was on a time clock to return the OWON, so I wanted to give people a look at it. I was very happy with it except for the FFT wasn’t working, and OWON people wanted me to return it as they had nothing to correct the issues in the way of software updates. My firmware version was V2.9.0.0, what version do you have? Paul at learn electronics just got one and the FFT seems to be measuring correctly now. Although the vertical scale is still a bit dubious. I wanted the OWON because of the 14 bit A/D. The OWON is double the price as the Siglent, so I didn’t mean to compare them as which was better, but I was just attempting to show how the looked and performed. The OWON has a very nice and large display. BTW, I also have a new Instek and both the Instek and Siglent power up no differently regarding time in either FFT mode or time domain, but I don’t really care how fast they come up - I’m not that big in a rush to take a measurement. ;) I don’t know why some reviewers make that such a big deal. I’ll probably buy another Owon so that I can show it’s A/D off. I’d like to hear your thoughts on the FFT now that it seems to be working. BTW, which model do you have? Nice to hear from you, thanks for taking the time to share.
I have an Owon vds1022i dual channel USB scope, and the same problem: the scope functions work beautifully, measurements are accurate, but...... there's the FFT. For sine waves the FFT is accurate frequency wise, but the amplitude measurements are way off. For instance, I tested it with a 60 hz 1 volt rms sine wave from my signal generator. It got the frequency correct, but the rms value was measured at a little over 400mv. Owon should fire whoever is developing the FFT module for their 'scopes, and hire better more talented mathematicians and programmers.
That’s too bad. Nice specs, but doesn’t help when the FFT is so bad. When I asked about it, I hoped they would have said that they are having it fixed with a future firmware update, but instead just offered to let me return it . Thanks for this feedback. It shows how many people don’t use FFT cause they say that no one complains.
SDS2204X is good choice for home use? I want buy it
Thanks for asking! I think it’s a great scope, but I’d suggest looking at the X-E model: amzn.to/2ZDkODt
Be funny to compare the owon to your GW Eddie lol
Thanks Joey! I will do that;)
@@KissAnalog I guess ya could being you have the footage ehh haha.
This video was better than sex. !
LMAO😂
top
Thank you!
Don't touch that god damn touch screen!
Klanfakus 🤣
Darn why can't you leave the touch screen alone, im tired watching you triggering it unnecessarily. You are not prepared for this test, I think because you do not have the faculties to operate the devices on how it shoud be but you keep referencing another device in your mind to refer to an entirely different device. I actually find the owon to be faster at acquiring signals. I feel tired... gosh!
Sorry about that. The main problem with the Owon is the FFT that was not functioning correctly, and that’s why I was under the gun to return it, but I wanted to try and share a review. So, I hope I get points for trying to share this when I was sick;)
talk like trunken
LOL I thought I was a little sick but turned out I had a case of walking pneumonia. But I had to return the scope and wanted to do a video on it before I did...
thats stupid. mercedes vs trabant.... get your pils dude
LOL which do you see as the trabant? The cost of those vehicles are opposite ends of the spectrum. These scopes are not that far apparat in price. Or are you comparing the quality ?? Well the Zoe on has a far superior display and vertical measurement accuracy while the Siglent firmware is more mature, so which is so far superior?? I guess I need the pills your on to see it your way - LOL dude!
not a fan of the cheap Chinese fisher price plastic crap
I get it. I have a GW Instek scope that’s really solid. ;)