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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2020
- Teardown of the new Siglent SDS2000X Plus $999 oscilloscope.
Can it be hacked to 500MHz?
Hires teardown photos: www.eevblog.com/2020/06/03/ee...
Hacking thread: www.eevblog.com/forum/testgea...
Siglent SDS5000X review: • EEVblog #1220 - Siglen...
Forum: www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/ee...
#Oscilloscope #Siglent #Teardown
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Someone on the EEVblog forum has posted internal photo of the 100MHz unit and the front end looks identical. So it seems to 100MHz model can be hacked to a genuine 500MHz!
But will this be the same situation as the SDS100x series where the sample memory of the 1104x-e wasn’t equivalent to the 1202x or 1204x, even though you could hack the bandwidth?
@@dwagner6 No, all models have 200Msamples
Xilinx winning again. Check out the Cypress PSoC too , if you haven't.
sorry to correct you but the caps aren't all one manufacturer, 31:07 you can see a lelon in there, not that it actualy matters but i felt like letting you know
now the only thing left for me to do is to sell one of my kidneys.
Thanks for another great tear down! I awaited this video for weeks but yesterday I couldn'd wait much longer and ordered my own 2104X+. It seems to become a great weekend!
2020 $1K scope shoot-out would be great!
Hey Dave, just wanted to say thank you for all you do. Even though I may not understand everything you show in your videos, it's still great when someone with so much experience is open to share what they know. Thank you and please keep making awesome videos for as long as you are happy to.
I've been eyeing one of these for a while, so this is well timed
i love videos like this one, thanx Dave.
My scope budget was about AUD$600 - SDS1202X-E - it seems fine to me but then I never owned a scope before so I am wowed by 200 MHz. Thanks for a great channel.
24:09 Looks like standard Linux boot output and then starts a web-server (lighttpd) and remote desktop (VNC)
Tim Savage yeah, you can spot a Linux boot from the time stamp in front of everything, even if you miss the kernel telling us its version.
Starting U-Boot 2014 and then a Linux image.
With a (rather old) kernel compiled on "david-virtual-machine" for "Zynq Zed Development Board". Is Dave trolling us? ;)
@@adlerweb More likely, Siglent CEO trolling Dave.
can confirm that is standard linux boot output. Just the time stamps starting from when the kernel was loaded.
14:40 the CIAA AAC board you reviewed in the bom consolidation video uses the same TPS65400 4 channel buck regulator. So maybe it came from a recommended power supply solution from Xilinx for Zynq SoC FPGAs.
Great review! I got the R&S RTB2004 instead and haven't looked back.
Plenty of bugs in that RTB2000
Great video Dave, Would love to see if FFT was any good.
More power to you Dave, great gift to Fran.....👍👍👍👍
I'm about to by some merchandise, will split between you and Fran.
Definitely worth buying this one over an iPhone LOL.
a 1k scope shootout would be awesome, because I am thinking of buying a scope in this budget
I'm a firm believer in function over form, but I also appreciate great design and with that in mind I have to say the new Siglent knobs with those silver elements on the front are hideous, especially when compared to the earlier style. I mean for real, my SDS1104X-E is a sexy piece of test gear.
And yes, just as I was about to press send, Dave also expressed his distaste in those silver knobs.
Yep, hideous. I sense an aftermarket mod kit opportunity!
3D print replacements. You can design them exactly how you want.
The rubberised silver front knobs are nothing new and first used on the predescessor SDS2000X and later on SDS5000X models before now on the new Plus model. They are much nicer to use than those on your SDS1104X-E actually.
Great scope. That's the $3k version so about $2.5k above my budget but very nice nevertheless. The boot log shows "Zynq Zed Development Board" which really shows it's roots. VNC on 5900/tcp looks well hackable. Thanks for the video.
You can get the exact same scope for $1399, hacked.
The Zedboards are nice dev boards - lots of I/O. Something like the Pynq boards could probably be converted to the task, though they lack the plurality of I/Os the Zedboards have.
What's more surprising, IMO, is they seem to have basically used the dev image as the basis of their product. Surely there is a production version of it, instead?
at 500 USD that you say are your limit, you likely need to set some variables for what you want and what you need and then use those as a guideline to sort thru the jungle..
My limit was around 400 USD all included.
and my noob guidelines were as crude as this for a cheap entry scope, some time back.
=
# Big sharp very bright screen, perhaps to be read outdoors when there is a sun or very well-lid environments, above 400nits brightness.
# Big capacitive color Touch screen, like fx min 8".
# Min. 256 intensity-grading levels.
# Color graded waveforms and where you can sense which part of the waveforms is most pronounced with different colors, waveform-heatmap...
# Minimum 100mhz and minimum 1ghz-sampling-rate
# Decent waveform-capture-rate like 80.000wfps or perhaps better in the 6 digits..
# Full-size HDMI-Digital video-out, so you can use it 4k or FHD 1080p' so you can put it up on a big 4K OLED screen and it still looks somewhat decent.
# FFT, numerous math abilities, advanced math, etc just to get an idea of the feature.
# Serial, SPI, UART, bus and all that jazz.
# minimum of 4 channels.
# Solid clickable knobs with clear indents and variable control (fast turn equals big step, slow turn minor step) , and knobs with padded materiel, like rubber for good finger grip and overall general feel.
# Video recording-abilities and video-editing software on the scope like some of the big ones, so you can trim and highlight certain things..
# Perhaps Big internal exchangeable battery pack and not be grounded, or at least DC-input so it can be used on the go' with my adj. DC power bank. (2v to 24v max 85watt) and you don't need to rely on the mains-socket.
# well-known OS on the scope' so you can have Office-like-programs with fx spreadsheets, excel on the scope-unit itself' so the scope perhaps can plug in the values it is reading to an office spreadsheet, CSV.
# A lot of UI-sockets like LAN, and numerous USB ports, so you can put in USB drives and computer-mouse to control it if yiu having it on a big screen, as you see on some huge scopes and a full-size HDMI for digital out, no micro or dongle, but a bonafide HDMI port.
# No annoying fan-noise, and silent incognito-fan, that only comes on at rare occations and when absolutely needed and not annoyingly noisy.
# Computersoftware PC and also iPad-app, and Android tablet app with good wireless connection with okay update rate.
# Wireless access to the scopes root-directory, fx FTP server on the scope itself so you can easily pick out files, data, video, pictures that you have on the scope from any third-party device or computer with any web-browser and no need for the hassle with wires or drives.
# Perhaps a big original bag from the same maker that is intended and to store and carry it in, and where you can have all your stuff, like probes in one unit, in lack of a big bench..
# Amp-setting for a current probe.
# decent memory depth around 30mbps.
# Good modern circuit-board with decent build-quality with good board components, no cheap china-caps, and all that risky business.
All in all Just a cheap new entry scope with these features, my budget is max around 400USD / 400 Euro and it needs to be incl. tax, as import without will get +25% VAT on top plus secondary tech-product-tax, my max-budget in total 400USD / 400Euro.
Yeah its all good, just a cheap entry scope.. :-P
@Jakob You forgot the free shipping! Wouldn't buy an entry scope without the company offering me free shipping and return in case I don't like the knob color...
Teardown AND hack? Those are my two favourite words!
I hope Siglent don't issue a patch to fix the 500MHz hack once they find out it's in the public domain. The vast majority of their customers will be commercial/institutional who will easily be able to afford the upgrade and wouldn't consider doing anything 'dodgy' in order to save $1,1000. Therefore the only people likely to use the hack will be worthy cases who are not in the market for the upgrade anyway unless it's free, so leaving it in there would be a kind of benevolent gesture that doesn't really cost them anything.
>Just like when Rigol said "F it, just include the hack at the fact'/ry"
I hoped Dave had spotted the serial interface and would connect up to it and see what messages were output. It said Linux kernel 3.19.0 SMP PREEMPT, ARMv7, and machine model of Zynq Zed Development Board. I have another machine I work on that uses Uboot and also gives that same CRC error at startup. The main(?) processor may be running at 383MHz with 1528.62 BogoMIPs. It also appears to have 2 additional Cortex A9 CPUs (restricted from 4??). The two PREEMPT RCU CPUs benchmarked at 3057.25 BogoMIPs. hehe... They have a warning about a setting in the configuration file for Fontconfig. It also said it was listening for a VNC connection on port 5900. Sounds like you could get a remote display for the scope using the Ethernet connection.
Hi Dave, greatings from Lithuania. Good review/ teardown as always, love your channel. I am searching for cheap „good enought” handheld, 2 channel oscilloscope for on field encoder and other sensor testing. I saw some of your handheld oscilloscope reviews, but they end as „thumbs down” or price is too high (as Micsig one). Is it possible to find low price, low frequency (about 10MHz), but decent product with price around 100~200 US$? It would be nice to watch your review on HANTEK 2C42 and MINI DS213 oscilloscopes. Are their specs and measurement readings to be trusted?
Know this is an old video. But i am really in for the Powe Analysis. Especially the PSRR function. I can not find any videoes, where people test this function on the Siglent.
Thank you for your videoes, the learned me a lot.
Kind Regards
Remember the old days when if you wanted to know what chips were being used you just pulled out the service manual? Oh, how times have changed :-(
now you can just search it on your phone.
Just a point about the 10 bit mode Dave got a little stumped by, these models also have up to 3 bit enhancement in ERES acquisition im 8 bit mode.
I don't understand these scope companies' fascination with pastel colors
Its because of colour blindness
@@19janiboy96 That's a big misunderstanding then. Pastel colors are worse with color vision deficiency. High contrast and intense colors are better.
Pastel colors have less color intensity => counterproductive.
But the colors on the screen are nice and intense, maybe more neon. Though, I haven't seen all the channels, yet.
I don't care about the colors, but the placement of the controls on the Rohde & Schwartz is just Weird, and I can't get used to it.
Exactly my thoughts.
Would love to see the power analysis functions in action! Come on Siglent...
Siglent don't do a PA test board and Dave is mistaken for thinking they do. Instead they sell a PA channel deskew fixture so that channel propagation delays can be nulled so the PA option can more accurately calculate the results. This: siglentna.com/product/power-analysis-deskew-fixture/
40:56 YES. That would be an awesome video!
Fantastic silastic!
Would you please do a quick test of the bode plot capabilities of this scope on your EEVBlog 2 channel? I.e. measure the resonance frequency of a transformer or something
19:27 Capacitor to left and up from RB16 marking (near 8370 chip on older model) is a bit How'dya Doing!
How to hook tech afficionados: Produce a decent device, put in software that uses only part of its potential, make it accessible.
Someone finds out how to break the artificial barrier, spreads the news, tech community goes bonkers over it and buys&hacks.
Nice trick, Siglent! ^^)
I dunno, I like my hacking projects to be my projects and my main tools to be super reliable. I always worry that I would screw it up, brick it or something. But you certainly seem correct, they could make it software upgradeable yet not easily hackable. It's not that hard.
I have an oscilloscope problem! And a big one... Well, it's actually a storage and bench size problem.
Damn, @23:50 I thought Dave's room as orbiting the Earth or something, and he forgot to shut the door into space XD
Great review, as usual. One question, I'm ready to upgrade from my hantek, and I'm considering between the SDS2000X Plus and the Rigol5000. Which one would you recomend? thanks
take siglent, it has more functions and bandwidth also its signal noise is lower
19:20 silkscreen has a smiley face
:{
@@reps c: its you
@@reps its the Reps Guy
I must be blind....
Steve Farkas top left next to 16 pin chip
That's definitely a Zynq - the memory on the left and clock on the top of the package, with the FPGA IO banks on the right and bottom.
Dave, it´s time to do a complete review on this puppy.
It becomes more and more popular, also a shoot out would be very welcome - Even the siglent suport says, that the rigol mso 5000 is a big opponent to them.
So check this out ^^
If the Keysight's high resolution mode may restrict the averaging in fast timebases, so you won't see any reduction in bandwidth but the resolution won't be improved
I wonder if the autorouter knows the signal integrity requirements of usb/display etc to do the wild distances between the connectors.
How does this compare to the rigol MSO5000?
Dave, could you recommend a good oscilloscope for hobbyists?
Dave, Siglent usually keeps the front end at max bandwidth (except for the 20 Mhz limitation ) but instead use FIR filters in the acquisition FPGA.
Far easier to just use the front end chip to do it.
Спасибо. Очень интересно. Прекрасное видео. Здоровья, Вам и Успехов!
Great scope with quite of a potential. Low noise, sensitive, decent sample rate, responsive UI, decent and mature UI and a lot of options (hopefully the LA-input-unit can be a DIY project 🙂). It is far from cheap (and at this point I am considering the much cheaper 1104x-e, as it could be just enough for the "home use"..... ), Not cheap, but we can not expect that from a unit like this. For the most serious EE it is still affordable I suppose. Some keep buying yet another cheap(er) unit, but I rather/maybe invest some more right away and buy something like this. Tough decision.
so how does this scope compare to RTB2000? looks really similar, especially interested in triggering and logic analysis details
I'm a little amazed how freely people talk about "hacking" scopes to get paid features for free.
Please compare this one with the Rohde & Schwartz RTB2004 in this video, because on the surface they seem to have the same rough specs my gut says there must be a reason it's 3x the price.
That pitch wasn't obvious at all 😉
But still ENJOYABLE 😁
"Unknown property hight".
Why in the past keysight/agilent and tektronix send you scope to review before they come out and now they did this anymore. There is the new 8 channel keysight scope but maybe is too high end? Or they change policies?
I've struggled with phy data lines, so maybe they decided it was easier to get the trace impedance to the mag/jack correct.
Correct. The phy interface is horrid for emc and also timing skew. The diff pairs on the jack side are easy by comparison and will tolerate all sorts of abuse.
I cannot see in the blog how to actually do the hack. where do I go? I have just purchased a Siglant 2204+
thank you M.r
The previous frontend design has a solid state relay across the AC coupling capacitor and mechanical relays selecting from a couple of trimmer compensated input attenuators. I am curious to know how they got rid of all of that in the new design.
Would be interesting to do a reverse engineer.
@@EEVblog I am waiting your video comparing both designs! It doesn't look too complicated, hahah. Cheers from Argentina!
I'm curious to see the opposite side of the board of the new front-end. The more beefy 49R9 resistor that you are referring to Dave, is indeed also in the old front-end just on the opposite side.
Plus models not available from Trio, Appvision don't offer the two channel model, and the 4 channel model starts at $2,150 ex (~$US1,500). In other words, no "sub-$1,000" models available locally, so nothing for us hobbyists to get excited about here. The only real sub-$AU1,500 options are the SDS1104X-E, SDS1202X-E, or SDS2202/2352X-E models, which are all previous generations, or Rigol. I was thinking about upgrading my old SDS1102X-E model to a 4 channel model, but at these prices I'm not sure it's worth it.
Yeah I hear you and sell these in NZ but the SDS2kX Plus is in another league compared to any of the X-E models. SDS1202X-E is a good little DSO and still a big seller but other than extra channels and a few other features the 4ch X-E's aren't leaps and bounds ahead of it whereas SDS2kX Plus is.
I just bought one of these on a whim.
Excellent vidéo. I have SDS2104X plus. Is it possible to increase the bandwidth? If yes, do you know how? Best regards.
Scope shootout wolud be great
Can you review the FFT feature on this scope?
I prefer the layout of the SIG to the Rode.
$1k 'scopes vid: yes please!
Thumbs up for a shoot out spread sheet!!!
+1 interested in a review!
Of course this will work. I have a 20k€ scope in my lab at work and could pump it up from 1Ghz to the full 6Ghz (40k€) if I would set the autostart link for the actual application running on the Windows CE from something like "scope.exe -BW1" to "scope.exe -BW6". One would just have to hack his way into the filesystem.... All the options which cost thousands of euros are handled like that .... If it only were mine ....
Please test the scpi commands ... See if you can reliably download full traces and how long it takes, etc 😀
Hi, My SDS2102X Plus 100mhz is possible to upgrade it to 500mhz?
good vibes
this will do, was just refreshing youtube to find something to watch because my head is killing me right now, hey dave any idea how much to send you a 5 pound package from chicago?
Usually a LOT, postage is expensive once you start talking kg.
Send it freight collect. :-)
I thought they would use DSP processing for the Bandwidth limiting.
The SDS2104X Plus can be upgraded to this SDS2354X Plus?
What are the specs on that modulated waveform you use for trigger testing?
1MHz carrier, 1KHz 100% AM modulation.
Considering the price of the scope, it's disapointing there is no hdmi out for external monitor
The LAN connection works very good (fast).
SDS2354X Plus has excellent cost performance!
We can buy it for about 1/3 the price of TL's T3D SO2354A. (^^)
Keyseight now have physical dark mode scope for a color change .LOL
ok ok very nice scope... on which projects do you use the higher end scopes and when are Flukes, etc. really needed? because my Siglent 4ch 100m does lots on the hobby level. 🥳🥰
Was this SDS2354X-Plus really $999 in June 2020? Because it appears to be $2999 now.
One day I will google what fpga is, I swear.
Now build one with an army of .03 cent micros!
Hi Dave , where is the best place to purchase the Siglent scopes at a fair price ?
Depends on your location obviously. Ask on the forum.
Based in Sydney Australia
Is the fan as noisy as in rigol?
How does this scope compares with the Rigol MSO5000 series? I'm kinda divided between the two and I can't really tell which one is better.
Has anyone compare them? I'd really appreciate that information!!
include spectrum analyzer function ?
Wondering. You ever do video on fan noise? More specifically if you be working on a radio, computer, amp, other test equipment, etc. These things add up in sound. I sometimes just use a handheld DMM and an old fashioned crow just so I can work I quiet.
24:14 normal Linux startup. If You have a root, then You can do everything. For example install pdf reader for datasheets or some games.
5:18 - Tesa tape!
Really interesting to see that the infrared light is constantly blinking on your phone right next to the selfie camera even though you weren't using the camera! Unless the government was using it for you? LoL... Look out Dave, they're onto you..
Hmmmm, I think we are getting robbed in the UK, these are over £2000, which is odd because 1000 aussie$ is about £540, seems like for some reason we are expected to pay four times as much, hence I will not be buying one. Serves Siglent right that people have worked out how to hack the cheaper units to avoid paying top price.
are there any scopes capable of speeds in the GHZ or THZ?
ofcourse, hence the first, the ladder, give it some time.. atm, they seem to top out just a fraction over the 3 digits. (GHz)
They top out around 110GHz or so.
I want one, but cant afford it yet. One day.
just buy a used oscilloscope ... it will be cheaper and better
Samyoung Caps? Korean made?
Or at least Koreanowned. You don't see them a lot in stuff that's not made in CHYNA...
You usually see them in Krean made equipment. Fun fact: They work with Nippon Chemicon and also manufacture Nippon Chemicon Caps.
31:26 important thing!
Oh hey, that's totally a Linux kernel!
Let's put something silly on it like Android!
Really pathetic with 1024x600 on a largish screen nowadays...
I'm definitely not buying it.
It won't tell me what the screen brightness level is. Lol.
Are you sure you aint a Kiwi Dave?
31:10 i can see a Lelon ;)
Weird how no one ever complains about looks when it's a keysight/tek/ anything else. Seems like all the major companies have some pretty ugly designs for their scopes, siglent is no different.
So My 1104XE can be 500MHz???
Nope, it only has a 200 MHz front end.
1000 bucks? But this is a 3000 dollar scope. Am I missing something?
With a screen that big it's gonna get looted.
To turn it into a home automation system?
It does run Linux, Wow
A lot of the scopes run Linux.
Some running Windows CE.
5:20 I was expecting to hear something like fan for the fan fanboys