Ultimate Arrow Tinkering: No Stone Unturned..
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2022
- Ultimate Arrow Tinkering: No Stone Unturned.. Arrow building and tinkering.. We go through it all in this video. This is our Ultimate Arrow Tinkering video. We wanted to really geek out on all things arrows and hope to clear up some of the fog when it comes to shooting and building high quality arrows. Elk Shape Dan and MFJJ really dig in and go through some arrow details. #ElkShape #mfjj #arrowtinks
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I love how the guys heckle Josh relentlessly. He just laughs them off like dude I’ve done this already lol
I love these type of vids. The fellowship and knowledge bombs are always on point. Keep it going guys 🙏🏼💪🏼
Awesome seeing you guys be yourselves and have a laugh. Great stuff as always 🤘
I appreciate the one F-bomb that wasn’t bleeped at 20:32
More of those, please!
Great video boys!! I really enjoy building my own arrows and this video is full of great pro tips. Thanks again for taking the time to make this and share it for free!!
Glad you enjoyed it
You guys have have best archery related information of any channel I've seen on TH-cam..
Anybody building their own arrows should save this video so many golden nuggets also shows the integrity of victory arrows
I've come to the point on my life where arrows are like bullets. Match them to your specific "platform". One thing I'm going to take away from this is cutting from the nock end. I shoot Victory VAP TKO Elites (hunting) and Victory Elites (target/3d) Silver sharpies are your friend. Great content, brothers. Edit. I to shoot left helical as arrows clock L out of both my rigs.
ABT!
It’s easy shoo the same arrows always
I too started a left helical fletch several years ago after realizing the arrows were rotating left off the string with no fletching.
@@nycredneck did you notice a difference in accuracy ?
This answered all questions I had about rip tko’s and spine alignment marker and where to face it. Jj and Dan your videos are so helpful and informative. Thanks!
Been looking forward to this video since I got the email alert. Great video, I am building hunting and TAC arrows now and this is awesome.
thanks Steven!
Awesome info! Thanks for putting this together.
When I spin my shafts, I set a piece of paper with a parallel line on each end of the arrow so I can tell exactly where the bend is. I cut out the bend best I can whether that means all from 1 end, equal from both ends, or 75/25 if both ends move but one is worse than the other. I also square both ends regardless of cut and I square the insert after it is installed. I also clock my inserts so my broadhead and spine/tune are in line and then fletch in alignment with that as well. I weight sort everything beforehand and match components to zero out the final build, consistently .5 grain or less. Several of my buddies run the same build as me and we can swap arrows or bows with consistent groupings and single digit ES/SD on the LabRadar. Do all you want with spine, but if they aren't consistently running the same speed (same speed=same weight=same KE) your groups will open up and show it. What drives me nuts is when they start swapping heads and assume when the package says 125 it's really 125...I've weight sorted, shot, and chronoed enough to know that's BS.
Great tip imo
One of my favorite vids you have done. Keep up the amazing content gentlemen!
Thanks! Will do!
Depending on how long ago you got that spine tester. There is a good shot I machined that, assembled it and shipped it. Kinda cool to see it in a video.
Another great video guys! You always have us learning 👍🏻
Great to hear!
These videos are what set you guys apart from the rest. It’s not just the knowledge from MFJJ, it’s the questions that are asked along the way.
The week I’m starting my arrow buy and build. Timing is impeccable.
Loving all the videos!
Good stuff as always! Love this sort of video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
this is why I started watching your guy's channel. I am always tinkering with my setup and never happy lol. because of the info and tips I've gotten from the channel, last year I was having a hard time grouping at 20 yards, now I practice at 70! keep up the awesome work!!!
Glad to hear it dude !
Hell ya guys, sweet video dig all the info and the build, don't mind the longer videos at all 👌
This was a GREAT video, applicable information and knowledge!
thank you G!
Awesome awesome video! I do not build my own arrows but I will now! Thanks for putting out the best archery videos on TH-cam!
Wow, thanks!
Awesome separation is in the preparation!!!
Great video! I do agree 100% with making sure you don't spin an arrow on its logo. Respectively, I somewhat disagree with not cutting from both sides. I have a long draw length so I don't have a lot of room to play with when building/cutting my shafts. I am currently building a heavy-ish micro diameter Element Storm arrow for hunting that will come out to 520 gr TAW with right at 17% foc. After spinning them, I found 3 out of the 12 had more wobble on the nock end but also some on the front. I split the difference and cut both ends. Maybe it was luck but I ended up with a straight arrow. I decided to be super OCD with this build just to see if I can find any variation to the pros and cons of going the extra mile when building arrows. I weighed every fletch, nock, outsert, shaft, and broadhead. I then separated each peice and placed in their own pile by weight. Like I said, super OCD build. I want to know if I can do everything in my power to build the most consistent match grade hunting arrow as well as the best tune possible for my bow. It has taken a lot of time but it's also very relaxing. Just my opinion, upgrade your spinner to a Sirius. It's adjustable, better built, and more accurate imo. I don't think you will regret it. One question, do you nock arrows stiff side up or stiff side facing the brace?
This was very useful!!!
Great video! Thanks ! Now I’m going to have to rewatch it to pick up what I missed the first time.👍
Glad it was helpful!
You guys are clearly at the top of your game…..
and ya, you gotta watch these videos at least twice to get all the finer points. Thanks
we try hard!
Dan's Hoodie is bad ass! I Love it.
Awesome video as always! I have the same arrow squaring tool, great tip on using the silver sharpie when squaring, I should have thought of that...LOL :), always learn something new from your vids! I just ordered an Elite Bow and Hamskea rest from you guys @ Podium Archery! Keep the great content coming, much appreciated!
Glad it was helpful!
Tim, another great video 👍
Dan deserves a lot of the credit for this one! Appreciate it G
Good stuff fellas!
Appreciate it!
Great video.
I’m a big fan of Victory arrows.
I just built some doing most of what you guys just did and now I'm thinking of doing some inserts in the last 6 I have left and maybe might be getting some rip tkos soon
Great video. I use the victory RIP 300. I do all my arrows also and I have done all those steps. I have too say it is a all day prosses to do all that. I only do victory because of the spine aline. So much quicker to build the victory.
Thank you
Great information.
Glad it was helpful!
Love the video. Would love a vid on using the Ram arrow spine tester. I use mine but I know there's so much more that it can be used for. Please
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this many bleeps in a elk shape video… I bleeping love it !! awesome video guy's solid info 👍, I love me some victory’s
BLEEP!
and then the completely uncensored F-Bomb at 20:33
That paper tuning footy is MONEY! gah damn!
thanks G!
MFJJ your head should be the size of a 5 gal bucket. Most of the knowledge your dropping I’ve never heard of. Can’t wait to go thru a total bow and arrow build at SVA!
Gosh I love this video!!!! It’s literally my 5th time watching it in 24 hours. I’m so HOOKED, I killed my first ever Archery mule deer with a compound bow and this. Omg this video. I’m currently ordering stuff to build my arrows for next season. Thank you guys so much!!
Well Done.
I just finished building out 12 of the TKO elite’s. 11/12 were bullet holes when nock tuning off the spine align mark
I found with my tko”s with bare shaft shooting and nock tuning through paper I found that even though “spine aligned” that didn’t mean that arrow reacted the same out of the bow. So that test was all personal but I found some aarow my cock vane was on the marked spine and some weren’t. Takeaway from this is the more you dive deep into arrows the better performance and confidence you’ll have down the road.
super duper tips in this one. I’m starting to get a bit geeked out on arrows and all this FOC discussions. What’s your take on brass inserts?
I just had some 5mm brass hit Easton inserts ordered 🍻
Great videos as always…this Answered one of my questions.
Would have been a great comparison to see how the field point vs broad head shot at further distances …
You guys are awesome I like the longer videos great 👍 job
Thanks G
Josh put the Goldtip inserts on my arrows while I was there and I love them! No turning back now.
You betcha
Out of 5 years of searching for the ultimate arrow build guide go figure my favourite crew of MFJJ and Elkshape have ended my search
thanks G!
Switched to Black Engle carnivore. Affordable, and in stock .
And are doing the Aron Syder methods minus the spine alignment tool. Doing the nock tuning for the first time .
I’m inspired, I ordered some tools to build my own arrows
Could you do a video explaining straightness vs unity of stiffness and broad heads vs field tips would be amazing. Love how you explain things
Great suggestion!
“IT TURNED TO THE LEFT, SUM BUTCH!!!!”😂😂😂😂 damn it I love these guys!!!!
I don’t know about anyone else but i had to watch this a couple of times to abstain all the knowledge in this video.
I'm going to have to give the RIP TKO a shot. I've never shot Victory arrows, but this was a good testimonial for the quality of the product.
I've searched for Ram Spine Tester videos, this is the best one yet.
I love the VF TKOs. I cut mine to 27" carbon to carbon and use the Gamers. I haven't seen a reason to use Elites cut down that short.
Great videos. Spoke with them on the phone very helpful guys. One question is how y'all index the fletching vs spine alignment marks? Thanks for all the videos can't wait for the next one.
I'm going to say since they said they were shooting with the spine mark straight up that they fletch the cock vane with the spine align mark.
I learn something new on every one of your videos. I'm gonna invest the money to start building my own arrows. I'm kind of on a limited budget, but don't want below mid grade equipment either. Any recommendations? I definitely appreciate everything you do.
I’ll have to try some gold tip inserts for .204 I’ve always been a fan of putting the hit inserts on my broadheads and hot melting the whole thing in as one piece. Almost like a synder core. Have felt that then that way the broadhead is inside the arrow a bit and might be stronger with a collar.
give em a shot, they've been good - tc
I loved the video. Very informative. How do I find the weak part of the arrow if I’m at home and don’t shoot Victory arrows?
Great video watched every second of it.. I need to go back and watch it again because I'm not sure what outsert that was he used
I think he said gold tip. I got away from outserts because how easy they bend. Maybe these are different.
He is using what I like to call a "half-out" insert. Meaning part of it is in the shaft, part is in front of the shaft and the part that is in front of the shaft is the same or very close diameter to the arrow itself. This differs in an "Outsert" that goes completely on the outside of the shaft and nothing is inside the shaft. And yes, these are Gold Tip stainless inserts made for the Traditional series of arrows (or Airstrikes as they have a stainless version available for that shaft as well that might fit the OD of whatever arrow you are trying to put these in). Just as a side note, most of these GT stainless halfouts are around 72-78 grains. And you can add weight to them by using the Victory screw in weights which come in 10, 20, and 50 grains. Very, very tough system when you put all this together. I was building these type of arrows years ago and they are the toughest I've ever used bar none.
Building same arrows this week. Any recommendations for favorite field points?
not to mention the added difficulty getting collared arrows out of a bag target.
When you’re trying to calculate your FOC, do you measure the length of the arrow carbon to carbon and subtract the length of the insert and nock that goes into it?
I wouldn't mind seeing one last step before fletching, and that is verifying all bare shafts hit in the same group @ 30 yards, if you have a flyer or 2, turn nock incrementally to see if it will group with others. May be a waste of time but this is something I'm going to soon be testing with my current arrow build.
Good content yet again, you guys ever done any long range testing between the sports .006 and elites .001, with and without broadheads, im in Australia, sports are $150 a doz and the elites are $220 this is for the rip tko 250s
OMG this is going to become a rabbit hole. 😳
Great video, I do have a question, which GT inserts do you use? The .204 Traditionals or the .204 Kinnetics? They come in different widths. Thanks.
He's talking about the 204 Trad series halfout since they are stainless. The Kinetic series is aluminum. Gold Tip also has stainless halfouts for their Airstrike lineup so you may find an OD that will work for you there in that series.
What glue was that y’all was using on the inserts?
I’ve been fletching my arrows to the left since Ive started fletching my own arrows. Every bow I’ve owned have always spun left. What I don’t get is how many people fletch to the right and even arrows that come fletched are to the right. Ive yet to see a bow shoot to the right even with custom strings.
If using the outsert that makes arrow 1” longer, why not cut an extra 1” off? And the longer insert going further into arrow does that also alter stiffness since now the first 2-3” is now solid vs hollow?
I've shot the rip xv 300s for 3 seasons in the gamers and I've never measured one yet that was over 2.5 thousands so for the money I'm sticking with them and the ethics components been an awesome combo thus far with the qud exodus on the end it comes out at 440 grains at 20.4foc
I’m rocking almost the same setup! I love the XVs! I’m yet to have a durability issue with the lighter shaft.
Wow. I didn't understand half of that. They are so smart.
When you guys are matching spine to bow weight and length do you generally just round up on spine if intend to run heavy tips? I often see charts for example 28" shaft, 70 bow, above 315 showing 350 but then right in middle of 300. Also when adding weight obviously it will reduce FPS so do you determine spine by expectations on reduced speed? Thanks so much guys
It would be interesting to see how the worst measured arrow paper tuned against the best, and how they hit the target differently.
Or, did the .014" arrow make its way in and I didn't notice?
Thank for yours videos ; what is the best arrows for 2D&3D shoot , whit Hoyt RX7 Ultra 60 lbs and 29 " ? tube , spikes ?? Thank you from Belgium
another question elk shape says that arrow collars like the iron will ones add length but they go right to the tip of the insert (Easton axis Hit insert) but for example, the gold tip TRAD inserts stick out further. Am I not understanding something, for it seems my arrows with the GT insert would be longer than my arrows, Easton axis 5mm hit insert with iron will collars are now or am I doing something wrong on my current arrows?
Love your guys content! You guys should come out here to Molokai, ill take u guys to sling some arrows at some Axis deer🤙🏽
Send an email elkshape@gmail.com
Do you ever use the GT ballistic collars that go with those inserts? Or is it just unnecessary weight to add to the front?
good question?
So with Victory spine aligned arrows, a good starting point would be with the spine alignment mark facing up?
I disagree with mfjj about the collar vs half-sert system. The collar does require more carbon but the carbon under the collar is stiffened. Essentially the carbon begins at the rear of the insert, since everything forward of that is stiffened by steel.
Wouldn’t that be the same for the half-sert too? Stiffness from the insert would also increase, and would make total equivalent arrow still shorter
I have a 26" draw. When I take the time to spin each shaft and cut off the wobbly ends I am blown away how straight my arrows are! Then I weight sort every component, nock tune them, and fletch them myself. Most of the time there's a 1.5 grain difference between the lightest and heaviest arrow.
word up!
Loved watching those BOMBS at the end of the vid! You guys should do that in every video. Post vid bombs
many more SENDS coming your way yet - tc
I spin several times over several different areas on the arrow. If one end is worse than other I’ll cut that end. If both are bad I’ll cut both sides.
What's your opinion on the VAP TKO 300 elites vs the RIP TKO 300 elites?
Can there be a problem with broadheads, when you use left helical. I meen can you turn the broadhead from the arrow if the arrow turns left and the broadhead stops turning at impact (because of friction/contact/etc.)
What are MFJJ’s backstops made out of?
Excellent video. My brother has a great mind and would love to have all this equipment to make his arrows essentially without flaw. Can a person buy arrows without the company's logo on them? Just blank shafts? Thanks again
Don't think so, but laquer will take it off
@@afidbhawkins3173..
Not lacquer, but a acetone (ketone) based solvent. I know what you meant to say though. Cheers.
So you guys have a video on fletches?
Hey. What spine goldtip trad insert would you need to use for a 250spine TKO?
For my drawlength and poundage I think I need a 250 spine.
28.5”draw
V3 31 75# mods( probably hotter as Mathews are)
Any feedback would be awesome!
Keep the videos coming.
I know this is an older video. For hunting we always trying to increase foc and mantain a fairly low arrow weight. The best arrow to have a high foc and low GPI is the victory rip xv extreme velocity. With my measurements and a 300 spine my foc is right at 20%. It's a victory arrow that I dont hear people talk about, the vap and the tko get all the attention but that rip xv is legit
I probably go overboard and I weigh every piece of my components so when I am done with my build they are +/- a few grains apart is that necessary or am I just doing to much work ?
How do we know how much weight we want in our arrow? I’m new to this I’ve been shooting for several years but I always just had my local pro shop do everything
If you clock left and fletch left, does this keep you from using a right single bevel broadhead? Opposite spin tendencies.
yes, we'd use left single bevel..
Put a finger dial indicator on the shaft it will tell you where the high spot is
Any issues with insert/outserts coming loose with the Bob Smith Maxi-cure?
no it's been solid - tc
What is the brand of arrow squaring tool?
Is clocking due to the arrow itself or the spin direction of the bow string?