What happened to the Real Time Strategy genre?- Part 3 Modern
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2024
- Hello Again! I know, it has been quite some time since the last video. I do apologize, but on top of day to day distractions, I want to ensure you enjoy the best quality of video that I can create possible. This is the final part of the RTS timeline. I do hope you enjoy the concluding chapter. And do not fret as I will still cover the RTS genre in the future. I am also open to suggestions for themes about new videos, so do let me know if you want to share in the comments. As always I appreciate your support! And if you did enjoy the video then CLS( comment, like and subscribe). Thank you!
Sources:
www.futureus-in...
www.gamepressu...
gamesensor.inf...
12ft.io/proxy?...
www.ign.com/ar...
• 6 Juin 44, la Lumière ...
aoe2techtree.n...
ageofempires.f...)
thegamepost.co...
I would have liked to see a more expansive list of honorable mentions. The two that I felt were noticeably absent were Age of Empires 3 and Dawn of War. All in all a good series that I really enjoyed.
I can agree with both of those games needing at least minimal portrayal. Looking back at all three videos in the RTS timeline, I wish I would have somehow given both the Warhammer and C&C series some more attention as they both had some really noteworthy games that developed the RTS picture. Its just really difficult as I have to try to keep video to reasonable lengths. But both of those series have been marked down on future RTS videos that I will for sure talk about. I am glad that you still enjoyed the series despite those games not being present. Thank you for your kind words!
@@AitsZ It's tragic that DoW 1 was never followed up. Just the resource system and squad-based movement/upgrade system is something that was never fully followed up elsewhere, even by CoH. If you have the original DoW, I would highly suggest trying out the Crucible mod, which is still being developed today.
I was thinking about this. But is really total war an RTS? 🤔 Macro economic management and recruitment are made in turns, and just the battles are real time (somewhat as in single player you can pause to issue orders, but same can be said about single player northgard). Dawn of war is one of my favourite, I didn't know about company of heroes but you can see the relation there I'll have to try it!
It was a really enjoyable series! I love that you mixed in some really specific information about each game and going in depth with relevant mechanics.
Warcraft 2 was the first PC game I ever played so it holds a a special place in my life. Tried to go pro with age of empires DE but failed miserably. Dawn of war is certainly a favourite both because of mechanics and setting. Will have to try company of heroes! Thank you for the time and quality
If I was to nominate an honorable mention, it would be the 1997 outpost 2 divided destiny. It was an overlooked rts, but I feel included many unique gameplay mechanics for its time, such as morale, a tech tree that allows for new buildings, units, bonuses, and a slow growing population. It also included 2 campaigns that allowed you to carry tech researched to the next missions and lore basically gushing out the wazoo. Though the most memorable thing about it to me was that it was very much a game that focuses on having the gameplay match the lore, even to its detriment
After seeing the whole series, I'm surprised that games like dawn of war, homeworld and stronghold werent mentioned despite alse being very influential to the RTS genre for example the wall mounted units mechanics are from stronghold and the many games that use the Z axis and ships formations introduced on homeworld
They will be shown in future RTS vids. I promise. Didn't wanna water down there moment with just a mention. But thanks for watching and bringing your concern!
Some of my favourite games are still Dawn of War, Homeworld and Forged Alliance. Homeworld and FA in particular have some unique mechanics.
Age of Darkness: Final Stand, and They are Billions, are two of my favorites. But I know a lot of folks like Frost Punk as well with a sequel coming soon I think. Goblin Commander is another honorable mention.
Yeah I'd say Dawn of War was the leading RTS to bring squad mechanics and rushing strategic areas on the map prior to Company of Heroes
Dawn of war is simple the best RTS ever created, is amazing and a technical Marvel, accuracy system, cover, melee/range system, territory system, morale, it was so deep and fun to play, coh1 is great but DOW was the first modern RTS
I grew up on TibSun (Westwood fan) and of course Starcraft. I've have always loved the RTS genre over others. However as I've gotten older, I definitely have mellowed out on the whole real-time aspect of the games. APM is taxing and the threat of developing a repetitive stress injury is starting to be a very real threat. So modern strategy games with time controls and slower gameplay have really become my new preference.
I never was a an elite RTS player but I can tell that it is very hard to keep APM high. It is much easier to lose your level of APM then to gain. And once you reach a certain age, it just dips entirely. But this is why I prefer to watch esports and play single player campaigns. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Exactly my experience.
@@AitsZ What's your opinion on games like "Men of War Assault Squad 2" and "Call to Arms / Gates of Hell"?
(Also, when playing Call to Arms, consider checking a mod called "Warfighter")
Missing Supreme Commander here, a game that introduced extreme zooming in/out in order to switch perspectives between tactical and startegic (it also was a spiritual successor to Total Annihilation, and it was generally a great game)
Yes!
Supreme commander is a great game. I will get to it in future RTS vids. Promise. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I never really got all the way into it, just dabbled. But it was especially cool that they made it so that you can zoom out your view to the point where the curvature of the planets (and indeed, travel between planets) becomes a factor.
It is nice to see this series completed.
I hope you enjoyed it! It was tough at first but it is nice to see that it all came together in the end. Thanks for your support!
@leadinggauction8440 I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
I I hope you respond
Red Alert is missing, that's one with completely different units building etc
Also it was released in 1996 which is 2 years earlier then Starcraft for pc (1998).
while Red alert (1) was pretty basic and simple it was a gateway into the genre for many people.
Red Alert 2 was absolutely awesome, yet it's not even being mentioned.
For sure. But wouldn't it be better to give the Red alert games a ln actual segment than just a mere mention? They will be shown on future RTs that are coming up very shortly. Promise! Thanks for the comment!
Very good content as someone who's played RTS their whole life, I thought this retrospective was solid.
Really appreciate the kind words and I am glad you enjoyed it!
Firstly thanks for uploading, I really enjoyed the three videos about the RTS genre.
19:32
About the happiness aspect, being in RTS games, Stronghold series done a good job at this point, which is considered as a game dropped in the RTS golden age..
Especially Stronghold 2 (not crusader ver.) It had different buildings and ways to deal with the happiness, positively or negatively,
Like: Jousting Field, Musician's Guild. Or Courthouse & Torturer's Guild. Both triggering ingame events, like people revolting on you, or people liking you and volunteering to arms.
That's just the thing I wanted to mention, have a nice day! :)
I am glad you enjoyed the series. Stronghold 2 sounds like an interesting game. I actually do not mind having the happiness meter and other events included in some RTS. I feel it adds to variety and would keep the genre interesting. Thank you for commenting and supporting! Have a good day also!
Stumbled upon your videos and I really enjoyed them! RTSs have always been one of my favorite genres. I will always remeber playing Age of empires 2, C&C red alert, and dawn of war. As mentioned before by numerous people I wish Dawn of War was mentioned. Everything Company of Heros (2006) had started with Dawn of War (2004). Squads of units, resource points, cover, etc etc. Heros that could be upgraded permanently and equipped to squads, camera zooming into combat, unquie kills of enemy units etc etc. I understand why you chose company of heros, with it being a more commercial success.
Loved the videos, keep up the great work!
I am glad you came across the vids and enjoyed them. DOW will have a full segment on future RTS vids. Thanks for the support!
I'm surprised you didn't mention "Z" before "Company of Heroes" because Z was the first game I've seen where it was an RTS game where you capture territory where each territory had some strategic advantage and it was also the only way to recruit units because you didn't build anything in the game. This is because most of the territories had a building on it that would generate new units passively over time depending on the type of building. That was the selling point lol where they claimed to be "better than warcraft" on the box because you didn't have to worry about building a base.
Tihs breakdown of the genre is thorough enough that I'm surprised by the complete omission of Dawn of War and Empire Earth. I also think Sudden Strike deserves a mention particularly for its lack of resource management, making it a very different style of game or its own sub-genre, also inspiring some of the features you showed in Company of Heroes.
Good job overall! I'm looking forward to more on the subject.
Agreed. It's just hard having to choose which ones to talk about and leave out. But I do promise I am going to cover the RTS again real soon. And the games you mentioned are already on my list to cover. Thanks for the support despite this!
You did an amazing job on these videos. My favorite RTS games are Stronghold Crusader, Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War, Starcraft, Starcraft 2, Warcraft 3, Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2, and Battle Realms.
Thanks! I really appreciate these kind comments. A few of the ones you mentioned that I have not shown are in the plan for future vids. Thanks for the support!
My favorite RTS games are StarCraft 2 (my favorite game of all time which I still play and watch) and Age of Mythology.
AoM is a really great game that was probably overshadowed by it's older brother AoE 2. It had a really fun campaign, cool multiplayer and a rich editor which created tons of custom games just like in Blizzard RTS.
I really need to give AoM more of a chance, and you are right it is partially due to the fact that I was so obsessed with playing AOE2 at the time. Thanks for commenting!
@@AitsZ
AoM had a remaster announced last year. I suggest giving it a try at least when it's released :)
@@AitsZ AoM hasn't aged as well as AoE2 - it was great back in the day, but feels very dated now. The early 2000s 3D graphics doesn't do it any favors. I hope the remaster captures the feel of the game back when it was released.
Age of mythology was hugely disappointing. Having only 4 civs was just pathetic, and one of them was a repeat of the Greeks.
Age of empires 2 DE has hopefully shown developers that more civs=better. So maybe the remaster will rectify this issue.
@@AitsZ I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
Yea I have heard of these games you mentioned. Ill be honest have not played them yet, kind waiting for some of them to go on sale on steam lol as they are quite pricey. Alien Marauder looks very interesting, I feel the visuals and UI look very similar to SC2, Hopefully they gameplay matches it level. Dune remake, you mean Dune Spice wars? If it plays similar to Northgard which it I believe there is, its definitely worth playing. I really have to give these games a thorough playthrough before I can make any judgements. But I Honestly will add them to my list to tryout and if they are worth it I will add them into future RTS vids. Also I noticed you commented multiple times on different vids for me to respond and I do appreciate your passion but you definitely woke me up with all the notifications lol. Thanks for watching and commenting your concerns!
Small addition - the longevity of Company of Heroes infantry was also helped significantly by a chance to miss.
Most CoH players would say this feature is as important as the cover system.
And I would say it is a "first" in RTS at least to such an extend. Not only can a unit miss, each individual small arms vartiant across the different unit types has his own modifier, which also can be different again depending on what unit type is engaged.
This is why a tank on average had a small chance to hit infantry with its main gun for example.
All in all it was a very important feature for making CoH play and feel as it does.
Very valid point that was missed. I just love COH for the unorthodox gameplay mechanics. At first it was frustrating but once I got used to it, I appreciated it's ingenuity. Thanks for comment and watching!
Great video series! Really enjoyed watching them. Did you ever play "Knights and merchants"? It's my favourite RTS game from the 90ies, which has a very complex economic system and multiple resources. The levels were quite hard as well! Would love to hear your opinion about it!!😁
Thanks for the kind words! No actually I have not.But it sounds fun, I would have to take a look into it and see if I could add it in to future RTS vids. Thanks for the support!
@@AitsZ Definitely go play it! It's great fun! Very different than other RTS because of the 'realistic' approach to the economic system. Also soldiers are very expensive to make because of the long production line for armor, so you have to make smart choices. It was played a lot in netherlands, germany and eastern europe, but for some reason it didn't hit UK and USA
I have good news Their are indie devs who do make new RTS of their own for example alien marauder, tempest rising, immortal gates of pyre, knights of honor and interstellar.
RTS is my favorite! Dune will always be my favorite. I played it on Sega Genesis years ago. The Command and Conquerer series (Tiberian Sun & Red Alert) are personal favorites.
Good choices! These games will be covered in future vids! Thanks for the comment!
great video series
i grew up on aoe2 and wc3 great games. recently the itch gets scratched with stellaris though!
look forward to your follow up videos. i saw people already mentioned other games i think are awesome so ill abstain and wait and see what you have coming up
Thanks for the kind words! Yes I am looking into more RTS, and part of the reason is that I really did not think It would attract this much attention and mostly picked the main RTS. But I will cover more.Promise! Thanks for watching and supporting.
hi, my favorite RTS games are starcraft (1-2) and age of empires 2.
I played a game called space clash: the last frontier, and i loved it. An unknown spanish rts game from 1999. It have a lot a flaws, but a lot of goodies too. The 90's metal music when the battle starts, units have 1 or 3 types of attacks and can use all at the same time(the most powerful have short range), missiles fly until run-out of fuel, an imperfect diplomacy management system but really fun, income control, help from your leaders(must pay credits), space and linear campaigns, mega-attacks(something like emperor: battle for dune) and more.
Interesting never heard about the Spanish RTS. It be worth checking out. Thanks for the comment!
Three rarely-mentioned RTS games but are absolute gems:
Homeworld - space combat that accounts for 3D maneuvers and the crippling of enemy capital ships by targeting their components, making for intense, seemingly-chaotic but actually highly tactical action. Leave your big, expensive capital ships unattended and enemy small units will rip them to shreds. This game is very personal to me, with its gorgeous background art, unique and atmospheric music/sound design.
Battle Realms - very detailed, unique unit models and animations, especially for the early 2000s, with each performing a different fighting style in combat instead of just swinging, even ranged units will also fight back if caught in melee (albeit dealing subpar damage, mostly to hold off the attackers for help to arrive). Your army is also restricted in number because most units are trained by sending a peasant into a specific structure, and you lose the peasant in the exchange/training - making for highly-demanding army composition to balance combat and economy. Also, again, the music is fantastic.
Universe at War - I've only played this one for a while before my old computer crashed and burned, but enough to know how good it is. Just like StarCraft, the game features 3 different, unique factions - but the most standout definitely is the Hierarchy, alien invaders, the evil faction - who brings their entire BASE into combat atop gigantic walkers that can easily crush other factions' units. The art direction of this game is god-tier (pun intended for the Masari faction), and the music is made by Frank Klepacki - who also scored for Command & Conquer series so...need I say more?
I would say that the concept of merging 4x with RTS in Nordgard wasn't new. It has been pioneered before since at least 2000 with Imperium Galactica 2. Where the process of exploration is slow because your space fleet cannot move too far away from your planets before they reached communication limit, which represents by said fleet having vision range reduced to zero and thus cannot see anything at all once they move too far away. Forcing you to slowly expand your empire by building an extremely expensive Colony Ships to colonize planets close to your home planets to expand your space fleet range.
Colony management also resemble most empire building game, where you have to mind your population happiness and needs, making your tax base and manpower grows so they can staff your military infrastructure. Spies also present with leveling aspect, but not quite fledged out.
The game also feature ground and space combat, like another RTS Star Wars: Empire at War which came out after Imperium Galactica 2 almost a decade later. Imperium Galactica 2 is also unique in that all unit are customizable and the player can have as many designs from the same base chassis as they want, such as fielding a Cruiser that armed with Death Ray alongside another Cruiser design that replace said Death Ray with rapid-fire regular cannons, or fielding a platoon of hover tanks with rocket launchers alongside another hover tank that has the same basic chassis but armed with EMP cannon, for example.
Additionally, another concept that your video series haven't touched upon is logistics in RTS game, which seems to be implemented in less-notable games with varying degree of success over the years, as early as the first Starcraft came out even! Example includes but not limited to:
Cossacks series: Each time any gunpowder unit attack will automatically consume coal and iron from your stockpile, if you have zero, they can't attack! All unit, gunpowder and melee, also constantly drain food that you gathered as upkeep, zero food and they slowly lose health and eventually drop dead. Mercenaries units also drains gold on top of that too in case you use them instead of regular army.
Earth 2150, 2160: All unit are fully customizable like Imperium Galactica 2 above. And all unit have ammunition supply limit, run out and they stop attacking. Ammo can only be resupplied by Air drop from each faction's supply helicopters/planes which take supplies from dedicated resupply buildings, and these can get shot down in-route if the enemy bothered to send AA units or fighters to intercept, and can only carry a limited amount per trip average at 2 - 3 units worth of ammo per supply helicopter. Making building forward resupply base as you advanced a necessity to reduce the downtime when you have to stop your offensive and wait for the resupply helicopters to rearm your army. Air units resupplied by returning to the closest resupply building.
Submarine Titans introduced munition factory, a dedicated building that automatically consume the gathered resources to produce ammunition for all unit. But it is not a universal ammo like in Earth 2150 and Cossacks. Each unit has their own ammunition type, and munition factory produced each type of ammo simultaneously but at a fixed rate. So if you spam only one unit type, the munition factory won't be able to keep up with the demand and then your units will eventually stall as they don't have ammo to fire. Which soft-keep the cheap tactic of spamming only one type of powerful unit in check.
It should also be noted that these three series (Cossacks, Earth 2150, and Submarine Titans) has no unit limit, you can build as many as you want, but the limit will be how much your logistics can keep up with the provision demand your units will generate instead. Too many for the logistics to handle, and you will find out that your army suddenly can't attack halfway through the enemy base, and then get picked apart by the counterattack.
All three series also have units with unlimited ammo. (Melee units for Cossacks, energy weapons for Earth 2150 and Submarine Titans) But they all have limitations; Melee units in Cossacks seems fine, except that this's a game set in Napoleonic era where cannons and musket is king. (When massed and properly supplied) And they can't damage building at all, making walls and towers an insurmountable obstacle for them. For Earth 2150 and SubTitan, Energy Weapons have limitation of either low dps, or high dps but the unit cannot recharge the capacitor quick enough when the initial stored energy runs out. So they will have high initial burst damage before their attack rate slow to a crawl in a prolonged battles.
14:59 Sorry to be a party pooper, but anyone who played Broodwar rejects the idea of Kerrigan becoming a space angel, whose all past sins got forgotten for plot convenience.
Haven't played it, but I've heard SpellForce 3 is a great modern RTS that integrates RPGs mechanics.
The thing about RTS is that it was a cradle for other strategy genres. Grand Strategy, MOBA, Tactical, Space strategy, they only evolved from base building RTS one way or another. We could see that RTS started to meld with other genres with Warcraft 3 and Age of Empires 3 as a form of innovation. Right now I see RTS fenre as CRPG and I believe it will remain that way in gaming history.
There are some new games I belive deserve mention for other people interested:
1. Cossacks 3
2. Iron Harvest 1920
3. Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak
4. Ancestores Legacy
5. Ancient Wars: Sparta (this one is ressuructed)
6. The Great War: Western Front
Thanks for the suggestions. I have these noted for future RTS vids. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I've noticed that I seem to have a big thing for the more classic RTS games, and I think this video kinda explains why
I think the big problem with modern RTS is that it feels like they're ashamed of what they are. Sc2 is a good example of this I think. The campaigns are just... not great. There's like 1 expansion per level, and every level is collect/destroy x amount of objectives, and there's not really any conflict that goes on between the factions. The enemies just feel like they're there just to have something in the way.
That's not fun, man! The original StarCraft wasn't like that at all! The enemies had a reason to be there, and there was a lot of intrigue going on both within and between all the factions, and the maps were BIG.
No game series better encompasses the RTS modern trends than DAWN OF WAR.
The first game was a traditional RTS with base building and army recruiting. The sequel ditched the base building, instead focusing on small squads that you could level up and customize to your preferred playstyle.
The third game returned the base building but leaned heavily on mechanics found in MOBA's. This resulted in serious balancing issues, made only worse by the special units introduced through microtransactions, which completely soured the community's enjoyment.
TLDR; the developers kept trying to change the classic RTS formula, till their product got so bad that they had to abandon it. And that's the modern trend with RTS'
You also have the spellforce series
Well for me you could have mention Battle for middle earth 2 where there is a success full rts based on books, Stronghold where you manage a caste and the game is focused on siege, a Shogun total war where the resources and battle are separated and age of empire online where you have a meta progression and mission like a mobile game
love to see Gladius in you selection of 4x games
Honestly never played any of these RTS. I have heard of them a few of them though. I know it seems that I finished the RTS timeline in 3 parts which I regret not making it 5 because there are a lot of RTS that need some recognition. But I will most certainly consider the RTS you mentioned in future vids. Again thanks for the recommendations and watching!
There are what? ^^ I mean no one can know all of the video games D: For example I think I play most of them but didn't play nordgard it didn't look appealing to me :)
No mention of Supreme Commander FA, Rise of Nations, Mech Commander, or any Euro RTS like Cossacks? If you did not play them I suggest giving them a try. Cossacks: Back to War had an insane units cap, 16,000 when similar games of the time maxed out at 200. Supreme Commander was a spiritual successor of Total Annihilation, honestly being one of the best RTSs in my opinion.
Most of the ones you mentioned have been noted for future RTS vids I will make. Promise. I know these series meant a lot but it would not do them justice by giving them a small mention. They would need a full segment. Thanks for the comment and watching!
Not bad vid series 6/10, but not a single mention of Stronghold is downright criminal!Also, Total WAR? I would also expect more C&C entries or atlast mentions its one of the big 3 afterall
All of those series are being looked into for future RTS vids. Just can only pick so many for 3 vids as the main timeline. I am glad you still somewhat enjoyed despite this.Thanks for expressing your concern!
I think "They are Billions" was a unique take on RTS. Needed abit more polish certainly but it was very different from your traditional RTS for sure.
Interesting never heard of it. I would have to do some research on it, but I will definitely consider it for future RTS vids! Thanks for the suggestion and watching!
@@AitsZ It's an RTS where your objective is to expand and survive , there isnt necessarily an "enemy base" that you need to outpace and destroy . Instead the entire map is filled with zombies and you have to slowly expand your colony and defend it from waves that attack you for set periods of time. Very slower paced game as a single map clear can take over 2 hours. A little niche and not the most expansive unit roster/tech tree but definitely deserves a look at for its uniqueness!
The "Empire Earth" series is interesting too.
except 3
Dawn of War had control points. Also developed by relic. Men of War also featured a cover system.
No mention of the Total War series?
Excellent videos. Brought back many fond memories. It really has been a while since I last played an RTS even though it used to be my favourite genre :(
I had to keep the vid to reasonable length as my thinking at the time. But the series will be covered in future RTS vids.Thanks for the comment.
I'd say if you're an RTS fan, you should at least have a look at Beyond All Reason.
It's a passion project that you can play for free and it's amazing what that team has done.
Z, from the Bitmap Brothers was a unique RTS, which, along with Baldies and Dungeon Keeper, I still love to this day.
Although I'm definitely a Command and Conquer super fan !
I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
I I hope you respond
good analysis.
One thing I have noticed is that more modern RTS go for micro play with low unit count and hard counter roles, something I suspect is made for E-sports.
Where I enjoyed classical RTS that focused on macro and campaigns/story.
Yea I have noticed that too. Single player campaigns are my main aspect I look for first in a RTS first. Thanks for the kind words and support!
I have always loved RTS and offshoot games (4x and moba's) but I never understood the "have to innovate critics" I sometimes see. When I play shooters despite not being a big FPS fan I don't complain "oh another game with a gun how typical, innovate please". I personally feel modern RTS games often shoot themselves in the foot trying to innovate more often then not.
1. CNC4 was a disaster and a big part of that is that it was innovating so much it became something anathema to cnc fans, no I don't like 50 unit cap and crawlers.
2. DOW2 is again a good example of trying to fix something that isn't broken and also has seen more negative reception as a result.
3. Even for overall successful RTS games it usually isn't the innovate parts that makes it popular. In COH2 for example the blizzard feature and vision blocking from destroyed tanks are simply annoying imo.
SC2 by contrast is one of the most successful RTS games even regaining a bit of popularity after coop mode was introduced and it simply stuck with and improved on the fundamentals, its custom games mode is a big part of it's popularity and it's coop mode are the real reason it's remained popular it's not just the e-sports side of things.
For a strong RTS a developer needs to think of what made RTS so popular back in the day.
1. A strong single player campaign (most RTS gamers are casual players so it simply makes sense, if anything this is where small innovations should come in).
Part 1.
2. Content creation (some of my favourite RTS games are ones that have lots of fan made content. It's a great way to improve a games longevity you mentioned SC2 already but CNC games also have fantastic fan made maps and mods).
3. Focus on making multiplayer FUN and accessible first. SC1 was never intentionally made as a e-sports game it become one naturally over time largely due to its popularity. SC2 proves that even with all the time and money you throw at a game people will still complain about balance. Make sure your game is fun first and competitiveness will come naturally. APM demands aren't really what makes a RTS fun to play or watch it's why I prefer SC2 to 1 for example which is improved but still too high.
I agree with you in that the RTS games should keep basic elements that they should almost never shy away from but conversely there are games that have almost introduced nothing new or have even turned out to be a worse game then there predecessors. Take AOE4 that I mentioned in this video, what features were added that AOE2 did not already have or could have had? And the fact that AOE4 was set in the same era has AOE2 only set it up for failure. Because now you have everyone thinking that it is going to be a game better than AOE2 which is a timeless, masterpiece( along with both SC's). Secondly if RTS do decide to go the route of lesser innovation, then they better be sure that the gameplay mechanics are polished, visuals such as cinematics are top notch, amazing single player story , a well built multiplayer, so on. Thank you very much for commenting! I did enjoy reading it and it has put a lot of perspective in my thinking about the RTS development.
I've been really enjoying this series! Ty!
I am glad you are! Thanks for the support!
All time favourite RTS is Stronghold 1
Where was Battle for Middleearth? :(
Future video ideas : The rise of Grand Strategy (think Hearts of Iron, Stellaris, Europa Universalis, Etc.) brings 4X scope to the RTS model. Also the RTS no-build or limited build games like Dawn of War, Myth, and the like show another side of the RTS that evolved by removing one of the features you specify as integral to the game type in your first video. Disappointed that Supreme commander and the spiritual successor Planetary Annihilation are missing. I have yet to encounter another RTS game that lets you crash a moon into your opponent's base... The complex story from TA to SC to PA would be a great one for an in-depth video.
Not to worry, the RTS you mentioned will be covered soon. Promise. Thanks for watching and expressing your concern!
I think it's worth mentioning the destruction EA did when they bought Westwood Studios and specifically what they did with C&C (e.g. C&C 4)
CnC peaked in the 2000s via RA2 to YR, Generals to Zero Hour, TibWars to Kane's Wrath and RA3 to the standalone Uprising expack.
The other half of Westwood became Petroglyph: Star Wars Empire at War, Universe at War published by SEGA of America, the 8-bit Armies games, Grey Goo, Forged Batallion published by Team17 (the Worms people), Conan Unconquered and the most recent The Great War: Western Front (though not a trad RTS) published by the Elite Dangerous people
“Cheesy ending but the one we wanted to see”. Hard disagree there my friend. One of my few gripes with the game is turning it into a love story. I found the story of SC and SCBW much more compelling.
Totally agree with that. Brood War is one of my fav stories. Just enjoyed every moment of Kerrigan's betrayal to the other races. Definitely softened up the story in SC2 a little too much. Thanks for the comment and watching!
I'm not sure if Populous: The Beginning would be classed as an RTS but it was such an awesome game Christmas 1998 for me (there are RTS elements to it as well as been a god game) as well as Battle Realms in 2001, was an awesome RTS title, played that for so many hours. just wanted to throw those titles out there as well. Loved the videos, takes me back.
I have not heard of either I'll be honest. But worth checking out. Thanks for the support!
@@AitsZ Just to second it, Populous in general - and The Beginning specifically - is well worth checking out
Starcraft II did not innovate different campaign mission types. Command & Conquer did that way earlier. The pathfinding improvement mentioned here of units not taking the long way was also done much earlier in Tiberian Sun as well I believe. On the subject of territorial control points, I believe C&C (in Tiberian Sun & Red Alert 2 if not earlier) did that earlier as well with neutral buildings you could capture.
I don't know the types of mission in Starcraft 2 were pretty different from your usual RTS ones. But again that is totally subjective. I will agree that C&C also had pathfinding that was ahead of it's time. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I really enjoyed this great series! It shows that there was a lot of time and thought put into it all. The RTS genre is one of my favorites and I have spent countless hours of my life playing the Starcraft series. I'm also a big fan of MMOs, which I think your style could make a cool history series on as well. Both genres seem to be in a stale place right now but at the same time I feel like there is a lot of potential in upcoming projects for them.
I am so glad you enjoyed it! MMO's would be a genre I would love to touch on. Never Really into them, aside from a short period of RuneScape, which had its moments. Thanks for suggestions and support!
Thank you for these 3 amazing videos about RTS evolution!
Why thank you! I am super glad you and a whole lot of others enjoyed. I had fun making them! Thanks for the support!
Good job making all three videos. As someone who grew up with the second generation of videogames I was pleasantly surprised to see you mention Utopia. I still have my Intellivision and fool around with the game. Special mention should have been given to Herzog Ziwe for the Genesis. It really is the grandfather of all RTS games and was unlike anything else back in 89'. It was so new that many reviews didn't even know what to make of it. Pretty intense two player for sure. I've actually played all my RTS games on console and have never used a PC as I was never a big PC gamer. Warcraft 2 and Command and Conquer on the Sega Saturn and even Starcraft on the N64. With enough practice you get really good at using a pad to select units and move around lol. Haven't really played an RTS for like 15 years or so,would rather play Civilization 6 now,and would completely suck now but I did enjoy them back in the day.
Thanks for the kind words! Yes Herzog Zwei did indeed need it's own segment. Glad you still enjoyed the vid!
Spellforce 3 has great graphics and throws in a good mix of rpg elements
The problem with RTSs today is that the old titans are still around. People might try a new one, but they'll be back to the old ones sooner or later. Making it difficult for newcomers to get a foothold.
You know what I am kind guilty for that. I played AOE4 and I could not stop judging it, and comparing it to AO2. But rightfully so, it has a lot of bugs from launch that still have not been fixed. And nothing really innovative and interesting about itz that AOE 2 definitive couldn't do already. Thanks for the comment!
@Goliath100 I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
I I hope you respond
@@AitsZ I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
I I hope you respond
Love Northgard since every faction covers a different playstyle. And there are A LOT of factions :)
Couldn't agree more! And that they add a new faction every few months just makes you enjoy the already different clan stacked RTS. Thanks for the comment and watching!
As an SC2 ladder player for don't know how many years, I still think SC2 is still the best RTS ever made
Won't argue you on that. It is amazing that the quality was still there even though it was more than a decade apart from the first instalment which was also an amazing RTS. Thanks for the comment!
@@AitsZ Yeah! I think it's the last piece to close the golden era.. Game lost popularity cuz of the match fixing scandal in 2015, but the game is still amazing.. Keep up the good work bro!
@@estebancantero4751 Thanks for the support!
I remembered another game called "World in Conflict".
I think it would be really neat if you did reviews of lesser known rts games, like War Breeds, Impossible Creatures, or Dominant Species. Just a thought...
That would be strongly considered.As I do want to show love to smaller names. Thanks for the suggestions!
I don't get the music comments tbh. SC1 has the most legendary music in the genre as far as I'm concerned. That stuff was not just innovate as far as gamemusic goes, but music overall. Mixing electronic music with jazz fusion and country/slide guitar like that, while being catchy as hell.
WC3 and SC2 also had good music that fit each faction. In WC3, the Human music is what you would expect for high fantasy Humans: Noble/grand/epic orchestral stuff. The Orcs have more aggressive music to reflect their nature, with loads of drums, but also a lot of tribal instruments to reflect their society. Night Elfs have very ethereal and ambient music to reflect their alien/ancient nature. The Undead have the most ambient music of the faction, but it's very creepy and sets the tone for the faction extremely well.
Same thing in SC: The Terran have this weird country/jazz fusion/slide guitar thing going on, very upbeat and driving. The Protoss have the same kind of ethereal/ambient style as the Night Elfs, just even more extreme. Loads of spacy synth chords and choir. The Zerg have again, like the Undead, very creepy music, and again, an even more extreme take than their WC3 counterpart. Loads of weird noises, sound effects, and super heavily distorted electric guitars.
Blizzard has always, at least up until around 2015, had some of the best music in the video game world. This also applied to Diablo, WC3 and WoW. The SC1 and D2 soundtracks were so ahead of their time that it's scary.
The SC1 soundtrack still sounds fresh and is listenable as stand alone music even to this day, while most of the competition from back then sounds like... well, 90s video game music.
SC1 music is fantastic don't have issues with it. SC2 is mediocre. I know you and other people are not going to like what I say but it's too ambient, soft and boring at times and does not add to the thrill of a battle. I find this is not just SC2, but a lot of the modern RTS like AOE4 if you compare that to AOE1 and AOE 2 it's far from being any where close to as awesome as those 2. Again this is my opinion, so it does not mean it's right. But thank you for watching and commenting.
Ability to rally workers was in Warcraft 3 IIRC.
Great catch! I realized this as soon as I read your comment. I have no idea why I added it to SC2 segment as looking back at my notes it's even marked down to show for WC3 on the last video lol. Might have to do with playing multiple RTS recently they all have blended together. I will see if I can edit this somehow. But thank you for the correction and watching!
The conclusion should've been a bit more elaborate, as it feels like it's just an afterthought to the whole experience, when it should be the main point of the video/series. I greatly enjoyed the overview of the genre as a whole, and although I expected more of the ending, it's still an interesting video series. Thanks for making it.
You have a point. I did want to make the conclusion short and sweet and wanted to answer the question throughout the series. Guess that did not catch on well enough. Thanks for the honesty and glad you did somewhat enjoy the series still. Thanks for watching and commenting!
you deserve more viewers!
Thank you. Comments like these really make my day! Thanks for watching and supporting!
I am not the only one to state this, but I think the first Dawn of War series was missing from this video. I found it more enjoyable and satisfying then Company of Heroes and did not like when DoW 2 was just a space clone of CoH.
Starcraft 2 is my favorite because of the sheer amount of content, gamemodes and the unique way it does its campaigns. It also feels the smoothest out of any other RTS and I think it's the prettiest aswell even if it's not the newest, but they just nailed that artstyle.
And after it there's Warcraft 3 which I like replaying just for its story alone, which is one of the greatest stories in games in general imo.
I also still like playing AOE 2 and some of the C&C games.
Besides these I've kinda moved on from the RTS genre myself. Any RTS in the last decade just felt like more of the same but not as exciting, and this time with microtransactions and hundreds of DLCs.
I have to agree SC2 just hits differently with the visuals, interface and gameplay overall. One of my top 5 RTS for that reason. WC3 in my opinion has the best story. I know that maybe an unpopular opinion to the few but you can't tell me it didn't surprise you at all. Of course of AOE2 is just timeless with the countless amazing updates and the amount of civs they kept expanding is just insane. And I do agree with you on the modern RTS being very stale, but am sure you are anticipating Stormgate? Very similar to SC2 visuals and UI and the one of the main developers was the lead developer for SC2. If you haven't I recommend checking it out. Thanks for the comment and watching!
@@AitsZ I didn't hear about Stormgate. As I said, I've moved on from RTS, I'm not really looking forward to new ones, I'm fine staying with the classics. My favorite RTS franchises are those I mentioned above and they're pretty much over now. I don't trust Blizzard to deliver a good Starcraft 3 anymore, Warcraft will most likely keep being an MMO, AOE 4 was just a letdown, C&C is probably dead for good. Pretty much all of the big names in RTS are either dead or turned bad.
lets go
you did a great job with these videos thank you
I am glad you enjoyed them! Thanks for the support!
I didn’t know there were so many RTS games… maybe it’s a good thing, cuz otherwise I’d have been addicted as a kid!😅
I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
Hey there,
Wanted to swing by and say good job. I know you are a new content creator, but creating quality content always pay off on the long run. I'm currently trying to convince 2 friends to watch the whole serie as like a lot of people in their 30's, I grew with all this. I even remember getting back from school in a rush to be the first of my brother to go on internet to play Star Craft 1. It was the best moment, because we could highjack the telephone line because my parents were working.
Anyway, I like the idea of talking in depth about a timeline. I think the fact that you were passionnate about this one may be hard to reproduct elsewhere. But 2 Genre that comes to my mind that would be interesting is ARPG and JRPG. Because, just like RTS, the good old turn based JRPG is kind of dying because of our boredom triggered so much faster.
Take care!
Well this comment made me feel really happy! Thank you for spreading the word about this series. Yea I miss the good ol days when all that I can think about is when school would finish so I can quickly get home and play Warcraft or C&C. I like the ideas you are bringing. JRPG was kind of already on my mind. As they too have a place in my childhood at some point. But thanks so much for the support!
You mention too much focus on Military side of RTS but I think you have your own Bias in that. Offworld Trading Company is a non-military focused RTS as you are building up your base while battling economically with your enemies and can even engage in some operations to "attack" your enemy. Some games that many call city builders I actually think are closer to RTS than City builders. Games like Frost Punk, Against the Storm, and so on.
The problem with the RTS has always been it's had a bit of an identity crisis due to people's fundamental misunderstanding of what Strategy is. The world of business has tons of articles on Strategy vs Tactics and how they are not the same thing, and confusing the two can undermine your business. Well the same thing has happen in the RTS field as games like Company of Heroes tends to focus more on the Tactics and is thus a Real Time Tactical(RTT) game. In Business focusing too much on the tactics isn't gonna grow your business. Or in the case of war the old saying of how someone won every battle but lost the war is a good example of focusing on tactics to much over the strategy.
The talk of RTS games requiring high APM I think actually indicates a further parting form the RTS side of things in favor of the RTT. The easy way to understand the difference is Micro-Management is Tactics while the Macro-management is Strategy. Much of this can be automated for the player to reduce the APM needed. Like having workers start gathering as soon as they are built. Better path finding. Units traveling in group or moving out of the way, basically a lot of the SC2 improvement you pointed out. Units auto targeting what they are strongest against, units automatically taking cover, and so on. Basically anything that helps reduce the need to micro manage the fight. The problem with a lot of that is the difficulty in programing good AI to do the micro well as even things like path finding can sometimes be subpar in modern games.
The focus should be on did they make the best plan? As in did they bring the correct counter units, did they expand but not over extend, did they scout/flank/etc to bring about their victory. Not a did they micro better with their units counting the enemy forces and such. Sure that can help at a high skill level in close matches but overall the focus you be on the strategy which doesn't require high reflexes.
This identity crisis is what I think has torn the RTS apart in the consumer's eyes as well as developers. Those interested in Real Time Tactical games migrated towards Company of Heroes, MOBAs, and other such fast paced combat games where micro management of their limited units/unit is the focus of the game. Thus weakening the market for traditional RTS games. Meanwhile other games are exploring the non-combat side of real time strategy with the challenge not being military in nature and instead simply having rival groups competing for some other goal, or having the environment itself be the threat as it's easier to understand why things don't just escalate into open combat.
The Traditional RTS rode the line between Strategy and Tactics with some games leaning into one or the other. As time marched on though I feel both sides went down the path they enjoyed the most and abandon the label of RTS in order to mark themselves as something new. It's kinda like in the early days how most FP games were seen as FPS because of their perspective even when shooting wasn't the main goal and eventually we got to point where just being FP doesn't automatically have people thinking FPS/Doom type game. But unlike FPS it didn't have a huge market to begin with so as people migrate to the newer sub genres the one most think of as RTS gets left behind.
Returned to the OG Starcraft not long ago. Always loved it. But played casually mostly. This time approaching it more seriously, trying to master its intricate demanding mechanics. Preferring Terran is not making it easy for myself. ;)
Golden age of RTS is gone. It no longer can be popular. Doesn't mean it's dead. There's nothing like RTS. It just means it's a niche genre now. And I don't think OG Starcraft will ever die. It's timeless.
I don't think StarCraft( 1 & 2) will ever die. It has become the staple of the RTS. If you want to learn how to play an RTS, StarCraft is the best because of it's simplicity. You are right, nothing will ever replace the RTS which is why I would prefer to play it over any other video game genre first. The idea of having to think fast and react is just unique compared to other genres. Its just difficult to process that the variety of games for the RTS in recent years is no longer there. Thanks for the comment!
I don't think it matters even if the "golden age" won't come back. I'll still be playing and favoring it since I dislike most modern additions like squads, 4X elements, cover, unit morale and many more.
Luckily for us, they are currently giving "golden age" fans a lot to do. Age of Empires 2 DE is a major success that gets new content all the time and lots of oldschool indie RTS in the works like Dorf, Tempest Rising and Stormgate.
No need to start accepting "modern elements" 😅
@@Chertograad I think those "modern" elements aren't that modern, it's just games turning into more Real-Time Tactics than RTS. RTT genre is about as as old as RTS (See "Close Combat"). I think RTT is generally more popular. And MOBAs are RTT games.
Saw all three! Did you personally play all games yourself and find the actual news coverage etc?
That is great! You bet! Thanks for the support!
Good RTS require good story and smooth control. And when I say "story" I mean SC2WoL as minimal level, and maybe even more close to rpg. Skirmish is good, but only 20% of players play pvp. And many big budget rts are poisoned by starcraft e-sport.
I miss a mention of Rise of Nations though. Thought it had a few new ideas.
Nice video series but "modern" lists is a bit limited. Big ones I'm personally missing are 3th gen cnc games (tiberian wars and red alert 3), Halo Wars (RTS on console was considered impossible before) and the amazing sins of a solar empire and its star trek mods
I never played starcraft, loved the historical RTS , like Age of empires
Really? StarCraft has to be one of the best RTS out there. But so is Age of Empires 2. Thanks for comment!
What about the most promising upcoming RTS eg Manor Lords? Not sure if there’re anything else on radar😅 just an idea for a 4th video
I will take it in consideration for future vids. Thanks for the suggestion!
Hi great video but i have to ask, do you work for EA? because there is definitely a lack of c&c on these videos which to many is the backbone of the genre
I probably would get fired with all the radical ideas I have. Not necessarily the best ones lol. I will definitely show CC on future upcoming RTS vids. Promise! Thanks for expressing your concerns!
Barrier of entry, to me, is what (or one of) makes the genre unpopular. Especially once more and more systems and gameplay loops are stacked onto the already current loop.
I'd have to state the mention of APM, it's not the be-and-all to be better but does help to have a decent amount.
The ability to memorize hotkeys(ypu don't need all of them just the useful ones), use camera controls, effective browsing through control groups is basically the 4-11 on just performing decently. And I know this all sounds like me saying "skill issue." (Though there's some truth in it. Not saying it to be mean.)
Execution of a strategy is the other bit to pair with that APM. It's not just "Rush-Rush-Rush" it's:
1.) Scouting your opponent,
2.) Drawing an inference on their build and what they're going for, and
3.) Mounting an appropriate response.
The response can be a rush if they can manage one or if they know from inference that they will have less effective response to your actions, all the while they do the same to you.
That said, there's a fair chunk of the community who's divided between casuals and those who are above average. And quite frankly I understand the frustrations on being matched up with someone who's just faster and more knowledgeable in mounting responses to your gameplan. But I also love the thrill of being able to pull off the skills necessary(and some of the APM) to play the game at an above average level.
Mounting a successful Tank Rush on RA2 is exhilerating because if I DID fail then, it's the eye-opening realization that I'm on the backfoot now and that I have to respond to their response, it becomes an nice back-and-forth. Than say, If I was successful then, cool, I caught them with their pants down-though it might feel unfair because I used the meta on them but, I feel like the moment I scout your base, you're more-or-less now aware that I'm keeping an eye on your build it'd just be appropriate for you to mount a response-I'd do the same too.
Worth mentioning js that Starcraft 2 has a nice compromise with its arcade mode, which brings unconvential twists from the meta and casuals thrive in the much more mellow/less serious nature of the game While Pros can go for the competitive ladder.
However, this divide must not be the reason to develop an RTS one way or another. We don't necessarily need innovation, just entertain us. Give us the fun and thrilling gameplay.
Never was really amazing at playing the RTS, but I do appreciate how quickly some of these pros can get their bases up and running fast! I am more into the single players, story and custom games. Thanks for the comment and watching!
I think starting with CoH (2006) was a bit of a leap considering how many of the features were translated from Dawn of War 1 (2004) (and Winter Assault), which Relic made before CoH.
I know basic gameplay in CoH is slightly different from regular RTS, and game boarders between Action RPG and RTS genres, to not be as "pure", which is why I think mentioning DoW1 is even more important, considering it's a regular RTS.
Squads weren't the new feature in CoH, as squads were already in DoW, and I believe in earlier Warhammer RTS games too (which I didn't play enough so I can't remember, I know it was in Dark Omen (1998), but that's not "pure" RTS either, more like RTTactics game).
Air Dropping units was also a main feature of Space Marines in DoW1, so parachuting units in CoH is nothing new.
Cover system was also implemented by DoW1 first, considering it's an important feature of tabletop Warhammer gaming.
9:50 Rallying workers directly onto resource and automatically making them work was present even back in Age of Mythology (2002) (or at least it is present in AoMEE, but even if not vanilla AoM, I've seen it in other RTS games which came a lot earlier than SC2), if not even in original AoE2 (can't vouch for that, since I've not played it in ages).
Additionally talking to your teammates outside of main mission briefing was also present in Dawn of War 2 (2009) if I remember correctly, it also gave personality and everything, just wasn't presented as good as in SC2.
Jumping elevation levels also wasn't anything new (unless you're comparing it to SC1).
Comparing graphics of CoH1 (2006)(essence engine 1) to SC2 (2010)... sure it's a leap, but not a massive leap, if a leap at all compared to DoW2 (2009)(essence engine 2).
I honestly can't think of a single new feature in SC2 (other than splitting campaigns of one game into 3 games), which wasn't present in some other RTS I've played before...
AoE4 ambushing, and high altitude aren't new features either, I've not really played an RTS which allowed climbing on the walls tho (other than LotR TBFM RTS games, which had such cities on some campaign maps, but that's a different thing).
I'm not even sure how unique faction characteristics are considering how different some factions are in certain games, or especially in Grand Strategies (like TWWarhammer Hordes don't function too differently from how Mongols function)
Don't really think that RTS genre is held by anything other than not being flashy enough, fast enough, or actually to contrast it all... casual and relaxing enough. Declining quality of major release is also a factor imo. Age of Empires 3 was already trash, and while AoE4 was a massive improvement, it certainly isn't "better AoE2", AoM or Rise of Nations (Rise of Legends had great campaign at least). Dawn of War 3 wasn't nearly as good as Dawn of War 1 or 2. C&C4 was also the worst C&C up to date. And so on...
Additionally RTS fans always try to bash games for not being competitive in multiplayer and not comparing to SC2. Even DoW1 was bashed for unbalanced multiplayer a lot (considering how different factions are, and how many of them are, sure it's a lot harder to balance but still...). But game was amazing in everything else that it still reviewed well. For me RTS games were never about Multiplayer, so I didn't care about balance. lol
But if you look at Iron Harvest, it did everything right, except it didn't reinvent stuff, and...
MOBAs took over RTS because they're fast, and flashy, and you can concentrate on battle, rather than base building and managing resources, which was gatekeeping players basically, and made things less accessible, while forcing players to master economy to even play the game. MOBAs just skip over economy. And base building aspect, which can be too slow and frustrating, like... you build for 15 minutes set up and everything, and then you lose in a minute. (made this comment before you've done MOBA part lol)
RTS games did decently well on consoles too, even without Keyboard and Mouse, it all depends on execution. Even KKND2 is still loved by many, and it was on PSX. (As were variety of C&C games, Dark Omen and so on...) Biggest issue would be lack crossplay, but even PS2 supported Keyboard and Mouse, so definitely not an issue for those that want to be more competitive, I think the biggest issue was actually converting the game mechanics to work properly on controller, for those that didn't want to buy Keyboard and Mouse.
I don't necessarily agree with visuals either, while sure RTS games try to keep it simple, because it's easier to grasp what's going on the map without too many intrusive details, games can still look good if approached properly. Good example of this was may be Endless Legend, where game's overworld map look a lot better than other 4x games. Or Disciples series, which just blows out everything else out of the water, with it's atmosphere and looks. And I think part of WCIII's success was that it was colorful and appealing to look at (which is also an aspect of all MOBA games basically). And many other RTS games just look drab in comparison. SC2 and DoW series have their more grim look which is also attractive, but yeah...
No argument there.These games were also picked out preference as well. But not to worry because I will be covering more RTS and these names you dropped will be shown a full segment. Really to harvest was a mistake on this video. It should have been put on the WC3 segment, not sure how that happened. But thanks for the comment and I really appreciate your passion for this genre!
It would be nice to see a Part 4 for this, mentioning a lot of the lesser RTS titles that had some contribution to the genre. This could be direct titles like Dark Reign and KKND, indirect titles like Battlezone or its sequel Battlezone: Combat Commander, or of course the rest of the Command & Conquer series because as silly as Red Alert 3 was it 'was' different.
You are partially reading my mind as something very similar is on the plan and works. Thanks for the suggestion and thanks for watching and commenting!
great series dude =]
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words and support!
I would've liked to see some coverage of Total War or Stronghold. Total War: Warhammer 3 is a fantastic mesh of turn-based and RTS. 4x while also still grand strategy.
Honestly Total War has been innovating quite a bit I think in the genre.
I agree. the coverage for dawn of war will be coming on future RTS vids. Promise. Thanks for watching and bringing up your concern!
Nice video series, man. I wasn't really aware of why the real time strategies faded away. I guess, I was so busy doing and playing other stuff, that I hardly noticed. This was a very good video series.
Whatever your next video series will be, I'm sure you will take a video game genre that you like very much. I'm already looking forward to it.
I still have some suggestions. Maybe one could do next: FPS games, since I think they kinda all seem the same noadays. Or more broad a AAA-game versus Indie game analysis. Or about the casualisation of games vs really hard souls like games. (Sometimes it seems to me, that there is hardly any mittle ground. LOL.) Or the death of the split screen. Or the death of the single player offline mode in many game genres. (That's my personal bane coming from the transition from Burnout 3 Takedown, which still had single player offline mode to Burnout (4?) Revenge, which did not have it.)
Wow those are some very impressive suggestions and worth taking a look at. FPS are definitely at the top of my mind, and were very influential in the 90's like that of the RTS but seem to have had better success in more recent years. I wont get into to much detail in case I do choose this to be the next video topic and would not want to spoil it for you. But really I can't thank you enough for being super supportive! I hope you equally enjoy the future videos!
@@AitsZ you're welcome.
Here is my tips for improving the channel: talk like you are talking, not like you are reading. Make it a bit more personal, say what you feel about the topic. Make a joke or two, but don't over saturate it. Subbed.
Honestly these are great tips! Now if I can figure out how to have a bit of a personality when I present, that would help. Instead of sounding like an AI voice that a lot people in the comments mistake my voice for. It will be a slow progress but hopefully we will get there. Thanks for the suggestions and supporting!
All in all a nice series. I've lived through the RTS timeline in it's entirety and it was nice so see a summary of sorts.
However, a few pointers:
- I got a tad confusing feeling from watching the entire series. You speak of the most influential RTS's, but I get the feeling that you are mostly talking about RTS:s you liked. True, it's your video, you can do as you like, but for me it made things feel disjointed.
- The last video had 2 glaring (well glaring to me :) ) shortcomings:
1) You talked of Company of Heroes, when in my opinion you should have talked about Dawn of War AND Company of heroes. DOW came out first and paved the way for COH. If you had examined DOW you would have, for example, found out that the vehicle movement issue you mentioned is from the engine and not a historical accuracy feature as the vehicles behave the same way in DOW
2) You really should have brought up the Total War series. They brought the 4x combo to the RTS genre wayyy before northgard (nice feature on that though, it was a new one to me) and are still going on strong despite the fact that the first TW came out 23 years ago.
But other than that, a nice series, good job!
I have mentioned it. Preference was involved. I also wanted to show some love for an indie developer that is having some success. We hardly see that with RTS now a days. But both the series you mentioned will be covered in future vids. Promise! Thanks for the kind words!
Ambushing has existed for decades (Red Alert 2) and High Altitude benefits (like manning the walls) has existed in AoE and Battle for Middle Earth respectively. These are not innovations.
Please, what about Sierra Entertainment games? 😔
Good content, keep it up. I just feel like RTS games usually take a long time and I don’t always have the time to invest in playing the game to learn and master the mechanics
Thanks for the support as always! True. On top of becoming an adult and having other responsibilities, life now seems to be much more fast-paced. Our aim is to have everything completed in a shorter time frame. Faster internet, faster service, and shorter videos to get to the point faster. With the RTS there is no way to shorten the investment unless you change the basic principles which means it becomes a different genre, like MOBA for example.
I take RTS as a sport.
@@AitsZ Coincidentally, in RTS you similarly to modern life have to go faster to do better: make fast decisions, assign commands, multitask. In a sense, I see RTS as a brain exercise.
If you're talking campaign, just save and come back later. If you're talking PvP, I don't know about the other RTSs, but SC2 games get shorter the higher on the latter you get, some people do 5 min all ins and if it doesn't work they quit and you win.
I don't understand this comment because I specifically switched to RTSs because I can easily stop and come back later.
@@cassiohenrique6815 I think the argument was that RTS games are not easy to pick up and play, they require quite a bit of learning and practice, i.e. time investment.
I have to nitpick about Company of Heroes. First, it's a reskinned derivative of Dawn of War (2004) which already has many of the features, including cover system. Cover system and entrance to the buildings are also in Close Combat series (starting from 1996).
True. Some of these picks were preference as well. But I will be covering dawn of war on future vids. So not to worry. Thanks for the comment!
You can't simply forget about W40k: DoW. People need to realize that Blizzard stole everything from Warhammer. Furthermore, all the CoH mechanics were taken from Dawn of War as well. Might want to do some more research next time. :)
Don't worry it's not forgotten it's coming up on the next RTS vid I do which will be real soon. Thanks for the comment!
I appreciate the analysis and presentation (I liked the all 3 parts and subscribed). I agree with your assessments in parts 1 & 2. However, I would provide 2 counterpoints conflicting with the assessment of general decline of the genre.
Creative Assembly's Total War games picked up the slack when Blizzard nose dived after StarCraft II. Granted, TW games are not pure RTS, in reality they hybrid Turn Based Strategy with Real Time Tactics, but neither of Blizzard's 'Craft titles were actually strategic in scope, they were tactical level engagements; battles not wars. Hence, I consider these games to be Real Time Tactics instead of Strategy, but many would consider this distinction to be academic or pedantic.
The real standard bearer now is Paradox. Stellaris and Hearts of Iron are both true RTS; with the conflicts occurring at a strategic level, tactical level details abstracted away, thus making these 2 series the only actual RTS games ever... and they're ridiculously fun.
Before Blizzard's implosion, they had no serious competition. Today, there are at least 2 large highly successful companies keeping the genre alive instead of just 1; that's a healthier market. I don't mean to be critical of your work with these observations; you did a great job with these episodes, and your depiction was accurate. I look forward to more material from you!
First of all. Thank you for the kind comments and supporting by watching and liking all three vids. It really means a lot to a new content creator. I will delve deeply into to Total War on future RTS vids as I understand it's strong force it had on the RTS picture. And I would agree that it has some aspects from other similar genres but I still would classify it as an RTS hybrid like you say. Stellaris is one that I have in mind to look into deeper as well and show in future vids. I have not really played hearts of Iron. But it really seems to deviate drastically from your typical RTS, and I am not saying that is a bad thing. I will check it out some more for sure. Also I do not mind when you express your feelings even if they are critical. This is how I learn with constructive criticism and opinions to better attract the consumers who are you guys. Thanks for joining!
you missed the entire console RTS genre. Halo Wars 1 and 2... ... and thats it. they literally revolutionize RTS and have the key to bring back the golden age of RTS, sadly, they were buried by their own corporations... we can make RTS great again...
For sure. The best console RTS in my opinion is Halo Wars. Easy to maneuver through the battlefield using a controller. But that is probably the only RTS I will play on console. I can' t think of any others that are nearly as good. Can you? Thanks for the comment and watching!
@@AitsZ i dont think there are any others xD
Am I missing something? I thought Dawn of War and Total War were RTS games? And you never mentioned any of the other dune games ( BIG Arakis fan here lol)
They are coming on future vids. Promise. I just kept the selection tight for these vids for video length. I think these RTS deserve more than a mention? Thanks for the comment.
New RTS is comming soon : have youbheard of StormGate ? Anyway, I'm still playing Aoe2De and I'm not a fan of StarCraft, but will definitely have a look at Company of Heroes
Yes I heard of it. It has one of the main devs from SC2 I believe. The gameplay looks fun. Can't wait to see what it brings to the RTS picture! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Warwind might be worth mentioning, blizzard sued SSI into oblivion because they claimed it was a warcraft clone but I disagree! It had a pretty interesting world with 4 memorable races it was rough around the edges but it was one of the earlier RTS titles
Speaking of SSI (Strategic Simulations Incorporated for long), Dark Colony was developed by GameTek Canada (later Alternative Reality Technologies, much later Rockstar Toronto). An RTS game developed with a shoestring budget for its time, despite featuring only two (cosmetically different) factions, a day-night cycle (Humans being more effective at daytime and Martians being more effective at night), a single-hub HQ (that adds more modules) for each and an instant unit and research production (no production time whatsoever as long as you have Credits)
Also, game-changing single-use Artifacts that your Harvester unit must be on top of specially marked sites to excavate like the OP Kaox to shred everything in its vicinity
@@royasturias1784 i played that also but couldn't remember the name thanks for reminding me.
I loves these videos ! great job! subscribed!
Way to go! Thanks for your support!
As others have mentioned, Dawn of War, a very notable omission from this video series, and Homeworld which was ground (space) breaking for the genre at the time
As I have told others, both of these series will have a full segment on future RTS vids coming soon. Thanks for the comment.
12:23 Look at these fools! They can't even start attacking! Wraith also recieved a downgrade in speed, vespene cost and production time. I feel like they intentionally made great Starcraft 1 units bad to promote new Vikings, Banshees, Hellions and Mauraders. I like them too but Wraiths and Firebats deserve to be better.
high altitude damage bonus exists in aoe1 and 2 as well
we basicly call it hill bonus
Hello. This is exactly what I said "Getting into the gameplay, a few new features have been introduced, one being the elevated terrain which increases the sight of ranged units and when they are mounted on walls they have better protection with increased armor and extra damage towards enemies." AOE4 does not have any elevated bonus aside from when they are mound on the wall which they also receive armor bonus. Thanks for the comment and watching.
What current movies would be a great RTS? I would love an Avatar based RTS, or a Terminator RTS.
Harry Potter RTS, but it would maybe rather be a mod/tc of another game.
Good question. I feel that it would have to be a movie that has different factions such as races or groups. I know they have done one for LOTR, that was semi decent, game of thrones has one but I don't think it was any good. Terminator does sound cool with all the different types of terminators. Thanks for the comment!
@@AitsZ I have good news the indie devs and double AA are making thousands of new RTS games for example:
- alien marauder
- knights of honor
- tempest rising
- Dune remake
- knights of honor 2
- immortal gates of pyre
- homeworld 3
- manor or lords
- stormgate
I I hope you respond
one thing i always have liked SC for is the cartoony but serious graphics, of exasmple i like RA3 but the units are too cartoony, if a little more serious the game would be amazing for me
Honorable mentions to American Conquest and Red Alert 3❤
First time hearing about American conquest. How is the gameplay?
@@AitsZ it´s hard to say, cuz it´s like an AOE 3 but with the graphics of the AOE 2. U use batallions and everey civ is different and unique being accurate historically in their design. U should try it
@@AitsZ you can have 20000 units on the field :D
Empire at war was a great hit by petrogliph