Anyone who follows GN on a regular basis will know that this was insanely high praise coming from them. Their attention to detail in reviews is unmatched and they are brutally honest. By GN standards, this was about as close to a glowing endorsement as you can get.
@@mateofantasma I do not think messing up the MB screws and forgot to peel off the thermal pad are details. You buy pre-build PC exactly for the reason you do not want to handle this kind of shit... and have it 100% correct.
For anyone not following GN news, Starforge apparently reached out to GN in a matter of hours after their review went live with plans to fix the mistakes GN found. Now obviously nobody knows if that actually ends up doing anything yet BUT it was a well worded and quick response and the overall judgement from Steve even with those mistakes was very good, especially considering other prebuilds.
Yeah, the last GN video confirm this and provide more details. It's great to see how these interactions have been very professional with the clear intention to make a better product to everyone. Now that the ball is in Starforge's side, let's hope everything goes well.
@@forestman111 and "some of these issues" like there's tens of them. It was a couple loose screws and a sticker not being removed, where exactly is the some of these you're talking about
Right! I've seen Steve review plenty of pre builds and other youtubers. Star forge knocked it out of the park all things said. And yes steve saying that was about the highest praise he would ever give a pre built pc.
@@Akadehmix pretty sure tech videos either 1. return a it or 2. sell it to their employees with a big discount (mostly probably try to do option 1 before 2)
@@AkadehmixI'm pretty sure they part it out to recoup some of the money, and sometimes yes they just scrap it because some of the pre builts are basically expensive trash and shit can't even be re sold.
I like Steve's straightforward honesty. If your system's got off generally lightly in a review by GN, you've done a good job. As for the packaging, I remember years ago when I had a small computer building business. I mailed one off via courier and the motherboard blew when the user turned it on. The package had been shaken so violently that the CPU heatsink/fan had shifted so that it was touching a capacitor. So he returned it and I rebuilt it with a new motherboard. He was then screaming on the phone at me because this time the case had a split down the front. I found out a few years later that these problems were caused by the courier. A larger company had been using them but getting damaged monitors returned. They investigated and found that the courier's conveyor belts had a 1 metre drop on the end and items were just being allowed to fall from it onto the floor. That courier was one of the UK's largest but is now no longer in business. Pretty sure I had some graphics cards stolen by them as well.
6 feet onto concrete sucks, but generally that's how automated shipping sorting works. Packages will fall from belt to belt and off to whatever. Packages can't stack up at the end if there isn't a drop, they would back up on the belt. And the falls aren't the worst of it, in high speed sorting lines they have diverter arms that thwack the packages off the belt onto other belts. Packages need to be packed properly and computers rarely are. If you repack it in the case's box, those usually aren't rated to protect the shipment with the additional weight of components. And if the box has already been shipped once before, it should be considered compromised. Boxes and hard foam are like used bike helmets, they may look fine but they may not be fine at all. Were the monitors you're talking about LCD or CRT? LCD monitors are easy enough to pack to ship and handle a 6 foot drop, but CRTs would make the boxes huge. All of the items I've received damaged from Amazon or eBay were not packed properly. Sometimes I think it's a miracle that certain sellers are in business at all with how lousy they pack things. I wouldn't want my purchases to fall 6 feet onto concrete, but they sure should be packed like that's a possibility.
If it's the one I'm thinking, they just rebranded themselves. It's those pricks from Hermes, right? They're now Evri and still the same crap, different name.
@@OfficialDJSoru No. It was Parceline. Remember their yellow and green vans? They were everywhere. It was only a little while ago that I realised I hadn't seen one for a while and discovered they'd gone under.
@@daviddavies3637Out of curiosity, I did a quick search and found Parceline is rebranded as dpd. My issue with dpd in previous residence is that they treated me as 'honorable' customer, that they allocated the delivery timeslot to be at 7 AM, i.e. the first delivery of the car that day. Ans being the first one means that the notification came by last minute - if I overslept even a bit, I will miss the delivery.
As a career IT field support guy, the screw situation doesn't need any complicated or expensive solution: it's literally just a workflow issue. You solve it by getting everyone together, and you say, "Hey guys, you're killing it, but I need you guys to stop and check your screws and peel-offs on each component before moving on to the next one." A checklist sheet of little things to look for between steps might help there. Very proud to see Starforge doing this well in just a year or two. This kind of work isn't easy; it's common for a lot of IT guys to forget a lot of little things that end up impacting overall performance over the life of a workstation, so seeing only a few loose screws and similar minor hiccups is a great sign. Doubt I'll ever buy a pre-built when I can do it myself, but if I had to recommend a pre-built to a friend, Starforge looks like they'll be on the short list of recommendations.
I think a more workable solution would be to designate a single person on the team to be the vibration QA guy and give him a responsibility to check all the screws before shipping. When they step up to a computer in order to assemble it, they have lots of different tasks on their mind and forget a screw or two per assembly. So no matter how often you tell them to check the screws, you won't have a 100% guarantee that every single screw will be tightened. The trick is to have one guy step up to every assembled computer with a single goal: to torque every screw up to spec. That way, he'll have a different mindset when he does it: one that is focused entirely on checking all the screws as thoroughly and as quickly as possible. He won't miss things - not when he's the only person responsible for this task.
All you saying doesn't need an expensive solution etc, really aren't fully thinking this out when taking the whole environment, size of company etc etc etc. It's not just a case "get a checklist" or "take more time". They are definitely valid and maybe should be utilised if not already but they 100% should have free floating auto torque systems in place in a company like that. I'd argue 80% of this would be fixed with an auto torque system, 20% labour checks such as additional time and checks. And yes I do know what I'm on about in this regard.
He's also an investor, he's not involved in the day to day operations of starforge. The streamers are just there for publicity for the brand. And its not just Asmon that is watching the video, obviously the executive team at Starforge are watching it and are making the actual changes needed.
@aimanuarpro That's what being an investor is. He and the other streamers invested in the company to be shareholders. Not MAJORITY shareholders, but a part of the company.
@@sjneow tbf.. linus wasn't very consistent in his ratings with that He hates e waste one time, but gives points for a company including e waste. He wants them to sell their deal on the phone, but is mad when they actually give you a deal they want to sell. And in the conclusion they went and did all updates, including BIOS, changed all the performance enhancing bios options like enabling XMP on the prebuilds before testing the performance that is absolutely the last thing a normal buyer will do and greatly changes the results the systems would produce
its actually a HUGE compliment, to have somebody like GamersNexus, TELL YOU TO YOUR FACE, your product is good enough for ME to gift it to another person. im not sure ive ever heard GN say something like that, in such a way. he was genuinely impressed, and i think he was even thinking about that double shipping with screw retention... great review, and a great video review sir! impressive, my next PC ill be buying from your company
I would say this is looking pretty good for Starforge. Some small details but otherwise looking very good! I would also say that I really like that Asmon is not afraid to watch this live on stream in front of thousands of people, really shows character of the company trying to do as good job as possible (also pretty cool you get feedback from big reviewer and you can improve on it).
I would argue that he does this to inspire a sense of trust in the product, "If the primary stakeholder is willing to watch a review live, they must have integrity." not to mention, anytime he watches a review of his own product, its free marketing. People don't think they are being shown an add, or that it is sponsored, they think he feels an obligation to watch his own products review. Perhaps his plan worked on you? If they were trying to do as good a job possible, they likely would have designed a panel with remotely optimized airflow. The company exists to make money, as it should. I wouldn't assign morals or ethical standards to a non-personifiable entity that exists to produce money for its owners, investors, or employees.
like you think they don't know that the front panel is cheap and somewhat ineffective? Of course they do, but like Asmon said, he doesn't know if its worth changing, or in other words, he doesn't know if his customer base cares, or knows enough about computers to find contention with it. People want to see the expensive hardware, the buzzwords. After all, they are selling personal computers to people of whom don't want to build it themselves.
Asmon keep your chin up, having a Steve review that doesn't end horrendous is a very good thing. Dude is not only probably the most respected PC hardware reviewer to date, he is also the most meticulous in the biz. The fact you all responded so fast as a company to his review with acknowledgement and commitment to work on it, and just your overall reaction and concern for tightening and improving processes shows you all are gonna be alright. I don't think I've ever seen a perfect Steve review tbh so yeah you guys are doing good for sure.
The youtube comment making a comparison between Steve saying the computer is "pretty good" and "would give it to someone he knows" is like LPL saying he'd use the lock himself is a great comparison.
Asmon, OTK and the Starforge team should honestly be _very_ thankful for such an objective, in-depth and high-tier critique of their product. Companies spend thousands to do this kind of QA testing in-house and they are getting it for free. GN truly are the realest of deals - massive respect to them for their dedication to excellence as well as their hardline consumer perspective. Oh and the PCs look pretty good too!
Asmon's attitude of "This isn't our fault, but we should still try to address it" is an extremely good attitude to have for a business. so many times Businesses will blame their suppliers without any self awareness that it's part of their business decisions. They can choose a different supplier, or work with their suppliers to improve the quality, or making sure the screws are tight enough after delivery.
Not just that, but Asmon also has good deductive reasoning skills. Soon as they came across the screw that was too tight, he said "this must be an issue with the process because it is inconsistent," which is exactly right given Starforge's alleged statement to GN. These are the types of leaders we need as a community and I hope that Starforge gets a boost in business thanks to GN and this video.
@@Maknorr-v8w even in shipping, screws don't get THAT loose, and not only a couple of them, if it was shipping, half of them would be in that state instead of just 3
@@NewsofPE Screws like that absolutely come loose during things like shipping. Whether or not that’s the sole reason or whatever isn’t up for debate. There are things that could be used like Loctite. I used to work for a medical/military electronic manufacturer. That’s what we used on any screws that we were putting on PCBs, because they would come loose during shipping all the time lol. It’s an issue that can be caused by multiple factors, and he’s pretty much saying well we got to do what we can do on our end to try to prevent that from happening is all.
Massive respect for how well you receive feedback. This is _exactly_ what I'd want from someone to whom I'd give $4-500 overhead to build a computer. Very happy to send you some business the next time I refresh my windows machine.
If this is anyone's first Asmongold video, they see a CEO of a company paying attention to an honest critique of their product and speaking with their community about it in a serious and respectful manner. That alone makes me deeply consider my next PC being a Starforge PC.
@@whiteshadow1189 zileas beeing peanutbrain himself, he just thinks the same of others. Also 50% of asmon content is reacting, ofc he will react to video reviewing his companys work. Like stop putting him on such a high horse, literal simps
@@Zileas01 What do you mean? He did literally say he's involved with the company. Multiple times throughout the video, he talks about the issues that Gamers Nexus brings up on how he needs to fix it. At 3:45, Gamers Nexus themselves literally say in their video that it's owned by OTK and says Asmongold's name, and then literally shows a clip of Asmon dinking around with a PC from his own company. Did you even watch the first 5 minutes of the video?
It's really not going to get better than that. I remember seeing a review he did on a computer case a few years ago, his verdict was "we don't have any particular problem with this case", and that was a pretty solid recommendation from him, lol.
Tbh most prebuilt PCs are just terrible, with shockingly low quality. I dont think Steve is overly critical or anything. But this definitely seems to be a step up compared to most pre builts, much more what they should be. Makes me happy to see, even tho Im not in the market for prebuilts.
I really appreciate the fact that Asmond is actually invested in the constructive criticism that's given and is fully taking it in as something that needs to be worked on, as opposed to "these people are trying to bring us down by finding our faults"
Asmon has always seemed to be one of the most in tune people on twitch. He knows there’s zero reason for these big tech TH-camrs to lie, they review dozens of shit computers yearly, and if they see something shit, they aren’t going to gloss over it. Asmon understands that as valuable criticism and not some throwaway comments like you mentioned. He actually understands that criticism is valuable, unlike a large majority of companies.
You could apply (Loctite) Purple 222 for small screws. What is the blue stuff on laptop screws? The blue coating on laptop screws is typically a thread-locking adhesive that helps to keep the screws in place and prevent them from loosening due to vibrations or other movements. It provides additional security for the components inside the laptop and helps to maintain the integrity of the device
Doesn't matter if during the assembly their screw guns are tuned for too low of a torque spec and are just driving them in to contact them onto the next. Loctite is not necessary in any case. They have locking teeth on the underside of these screw heads so they work by themselves IF YOU tighten them in correctly which they failed to.
That trolling by Steve with the streamer voice analysis was the hardest I've laughed on a TH-cam video in a while. That was absolute gold. Azz mon gold.
For the screws, typically companies will put a medium-hold thread-lock on the threads before assembly to prevent them from coming loose. Some screws can probably be held in place as-is by engineering design too, but that's not the standard screws that you'd see in most places.
As an engineer, thread forming screws are generally prevailing torque, but the fine threaded screws used on the MB and the cooler could definitely benefit from thread lock. A lot of screws can be purchased with pre-applied thread lock patch on the screw threads. I don't know if screws that small can be purchased that way, but it is common on larger hardware. This was a good comment @TheAceInfinity
@@AC273You'd think they'd be able to get pre-applied screws. Pretty sure laptops use pre-applied micro encapsulated threadlock and they're tiny. Can't imagine someone is blotting on a threadlock by hand. Standard Loctite also eats and destroys some plastics so would be terrible for laptops.
I love that, unlike others, you're not taking this personally and see it as a learning experience for future builds. This just shows how serious you are at making this a better experience for the customers.
@@73delgado SOME folks do not have a hole in their head or heart that they need to fill with $1,600 sneakers or a new car every time the season changes. If that "grinds your gears" then that is a "you" problem.
I've been doing this kind of work for 20 years, regarding a couple loose screws, its about building a consistent employee base, if youre constantly cycling through good assemblers, you'll consistently find missing or loose bolts and stuff. When you do something enough you get a routine and these little things dont happen
I have watched numerous secret prebuilt videos of GN and just getting "decent" remark from Steve is a good enough reason to be happy. Let alone a near perfect score. It's is the highest compliment that he has ever given to another SI.
Gamer's Nexus is the one of the very few channels I trust for unbiased hardware reviews, esp. after the recent controversy with Linus Tech Tips. That was a fair review, & a good response by the vendor. This is how you build trust with the customer - other companies please learn.
To be fair to linus, the controversy had little to do with impartiality and more to do with mistakes in bench marks and weird results in tests in most if not all cases it was during a single test for a single of the compared product and didn't really change the results. Also the issue with the auction prototype water cooler that was handle in every form poorly by linus even if he compensated the team that build it after and yes i know they originally "gave it" to them for keeps but linus sticking to the "we can ask for it back" bit felt really weird to me, whoever bought it would probably accepted a refound and maybe some additional compensation if needed, that was just linus sticking to his stubborn decision Personally even after linus said they were gonna work on fixing stuff i have found they really haven't so i have drifted from their content but given that a good chunck of asmond audience is probably not aware of the controversy i thought it fair to explain it
@@kuro_emiya I believe you because you because I automatically believe anonymous posters who attack people while providing zero evidence, context, sources or any actual information whatsoever on what they are claiming, I definitely don’t instantly think they are just idiots with absolutely nothing worthwhile to say.
@@UtterlyShagged Because he seems to not be posting anything and YT hates links with a burning passion, the only real critique I could find in a, albeit quick, search was a video titled "No one is talking about the REAL issue - Gamers Nexus and Linus Tech Tips". The video criticizes Steve for even reviewing products from sponsors. Not really a great argument and a good portion of the video is just kinda garbage, but it's what I could find on a search.
Steve not trashing this is actually decently high praise. Really, fixing some of the design things and a bit of process could make it a really high end product. Honestly, I'd recommend this to family and friends already. They just want to place the PC on the desk and plug things in and it works. Always keep your customer in mind, which seems like you are kind of your customer, so you should probably be trying all the products out. The tape on the ssd is likely the biggest issue.
Respect for airing this and taking an interest in what Starforge is delivering to the customer. FWIW everything I've heard about them is positive. You're never going to hit 100% perfect all the time, but getting a "it's pretty good" from Steve really means you're doing awesome.
A screw loose is far more dangerous then just a noise in the PC. If that screw happens to fall and touch 2 contacts on the board it could short circuit things on the board
Exactly. Starforge has a history of fuggery. Linus did a review on this a while ago "Linus Tech Tips Bought My Computer" and found detached, incorrectly plugged into port cables and licensing errors. Sticky tape left on the thermals now? are you effing kidding me??? Anyone who buys their stuff and or gives this a positive review needs to see a doctor.
Or hear me out... Tighten them down properly so they don't loosen. OEM manufacturers have been using Asians for decades and rarely if ever are there loose screws in a dell or gateway or Acer. Lazy Americans
Gotta say I'm genuinely impressed with your reaction and willingness to learn from GN's review. I'm a huge GN fan, and I already recommended a Starforge system to some coworkers after seeing their review. I was super impressed by Starforge's response to GN, and now watching this I'm even more impressed with Starforge's leadership.
@@JesusChristIsLord.PraiseGOD. Me and my dad actually looked at Starforge PCS and how much they would cost to make them yourself because i wanted a new PC and only had a budget of 1500€ and let me tell you this... you can totally build a better quality PC by yourself for 1500€ than 3000-4000€ starforge PCS They are not bad they are not EXTREMELY SCAMMY or smth like that but 300-4000 isn't really a good price here...
I went from watching all Linus and no GN, to the other way. I barely watch LTT and much prefer GN. I think I'd honestly be terrified of GN reviewing a product I've created lol, this went really well, though IMO. Linus had some good points about the Starforge PC they bought, but some were really fucking braindead. He complained that they left the peel-able protective plastic off some components... really... it's honestly an integral part of unboxing something BRAND new. I don't know about anyone else, but if I bought a brand new PC - or other product - and there were no bits of protective plastic, that'd instantly make me think 'cheap' or that they're cutting corners. Besides, *that peeling feeling* is almost unmatched.
@@JesusChristIsLord.PraiseGOD. I can cook the same food that I get from takeout by getting the ingredients and cooking it myself, can build a house cheaper than buying one, can fix my electronics cheaper than hiring someone to do it for me as always, outsourcing knowledge and inconvenience costs you money, absolutely nothing new there
@@gopnikolai7483 yes but on a pre built pc you shouldnt have protective plastic on the inside. Cause now you get a built pc and have to open up the case remove the plastic and then put the case back on, its a prebuilt pc there should be no plastic on the INSIDE. prebuilt pcs are for people that dont know or dont want to built pcs so there is no point in leaving the plastic inside, the customer should be able to turn their pc on as soon as they get it.
@@julose2678 oh no. God forbid you have to - AT MOST - undo a whole 2 thumbscrews (a truly terrifying concept). Opening a single side panel in 15 seconds doesn't just instantly void its 'pre-built' status or purpose. That's like complaining that your Ford or Honda is a kit car and you're not happy because you have to... OPEN THE BONNET TO FILL THE OIL! (Another truly terrifying concept, I know.) Not to mention a number of pre-built PCs from different companies come with sealed expanding foam packs inside to stop components from being damaged in transit. Don't wanna deal with anything related to desktops, get a console.
As someone who works in the manufacturing space. My first solution to the screw problem would be electric torque wrenches (super expensive but fast) or just regularly calibrated torque screw drivers (get 1 screw driver for each torque, do not let the line change torque values on the fly, color code multiple tools, calibrate on a schedule). Tighten screws in a pattern, go over the pattern at least twice. Since in a PC not all screws are needed and the danger is actually having one fall out more than having one that is not properly tightened. At my work we started using screws that have thread locker (Loctite) baked on to the threads, that way we don't have to mess with liquid thread locker and we throw away all included hardware. Again to clarify I work in manufacturing, we do not manufacture computers so some of my suggestions might not apply, just sharing what I know from what we do.
All of this except the thread locker seems like good advice here but no pc made with enthusiast upgradeable off the shelf parts should have threadlocker ANYWHERE lol
@@torunsmok5890Blue loctite isn't bad, though. It won't make the screws stuck permanently and is immensely useful in preventing screws from backing out due to vibrations and such that can happen in transportation. In what way would it be bad?
Yes that's all really good, I just don't agree with using electric (power) tools on delicate electronics. Hand tools with a torque that breaks away once the right pressure has been achieved along with the proper application of the loctite, is a great suggestion. Could maybe use a nylon thread anchor (nut) instead of the loctite.
@@PyroGam3s I understand the concern with power tools however they have come a long way in the past few years and can be programmed to be more precise than even hand torque wrenches. I would never recommend a standard, or amazon grade power tool be used. Something like the Atlas Microtorque series or similar goes down to 0.11 inch pounds, but costs a premium.
@@PyroGam3s There are assembly line screwdrivers that you can setup to the exact torque you want to get a near perfect fit for the screw each time, its very inneficient manually screw these on. My guess is they have a basic 20 dollar screwdriver they do all the jobs and since its not consistent the worker more likely leave it loose than overthighten it.
Reacting to a GN Video is ballsy. They are fair but BRUTAL with high standards and have ABSOLUTELY MURDERED some SIs in the past, tearing them and their builds apart to the point of turning them into Memes (see "better than Dell" award). I'd honestly like to see him react to the Dell G5 video to put the praise he got from GN in context. Anything beyond "not absolutely terrible" from them is already an achievement.
Hey - I've been thinking about an entirely new PC case design concept that could solve the shipping problem. Picture this: instead of separate cooling parts that can break in transit, what if the case frame itself contained liquid cooling channels? It would be a totally new approach - case structure that's both the protection AND the cooling system. Nobody's done this yet, but it could be worth exploring if you're looking to innovate in the custom PC space.
The front panel could be replaced with mesh for better airflow (This could also add some performance to the system and fix some of the acoustic issues by lowing the internal temps. Hence, the fans would spin slower by the fan curve configuration in the BIOS). The screws could be secured from shipping vibrations with loctite threadlocker. For the tape in the SSD thermal pad, you could create standardized processes (a checklist) for the builders.
Why Loctite? I use that only on Bikes and such, the Blue one to be precise. Oh there is a purple one that has weak strength, wile I am writing this I just remembered that I had blue flakes come of screws when disassembling electronics, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed as it seems.
@@F1rstp3rson LMAO just stay the fuck away from red cause that shit will FUSE your screws permanently. Any time I needed to remove a bolt from steel structures and I see the red drip from the nut, I just skip to cutting it off. Purple is for applications that may require frequent disassembly. Blue is designed to be semi-permanent but still removeable with moderate torque and hand tools.
The front panel seems like a custom decoration. They could maybe upsize the holes but probably if they want to stick with the pattern they should just make the gap bigger. This ain't a hard to cool system.
The case is a Deepcool CK560, which does have a mesh filter behind the decorative panel, just in front of the fans. You can remove the panel, but then the case looks a bit unfinished.
I work in auto industry, they have programs for each tool that will read anything to a 0 torque( completely missed screw) to over torque…your pc will never have any issues with this kind of tool…or have an assigned torque monitor ( person) to check & recheck before shipping
I'll be honest, if this was my first PC I'd be over the moon. Honestly, for the consumer and not folks already online, this is a great PC for a common household.
@@itsmenoname2247 you kinda want things to last as software and operating systems become more taxing on the hardware, and this pc is gonna last longer because it just has more performance.
Props to you for watching this and taking an interesting in what could be done better. A lot of this was little things, but I would say the loose screw inside and the m.2 cover tape are the 2 things that need to be sure to fix. Looks like you have a great product here, and I foresee it will get better with time.
The fact Gamers Nexus goes through so much work to test out rigs is amazing, and the positive attitude Asmon has towards feedback - good or bad - is exactly why he's successful. I wish I had known you guys had a PC company when I made my last big gaming PC purchase but rest assured, my next big splurge, I will check you guys out first.
20:15 And in fact, the screw can short and kill some components, costing you even more money. But even if you get they automated screwdriver with the precise torque, vibrations in shipping will forever loosen screws. That's what you need to address way more than the torque (and that's why I suggested shock-absorbent foam instead of bubble-wrap in my other comment. Anything shock-absorbent is also vibration-absorbent)
This is a great video and honestly, the humility and sheer relief that his work passed muster and willingly took the feedback with humility is a testament to character of a leader. It's about taking feedback in stride and making it better! I'm building a system for my son who has dreams of being a creator, so I'm teaching him how to build the systems.I'm going to consider this solution as a viable strategy for my son's next box. Nice work Team!
@@leeloodogI've seen some hardware on PC components with the yellow pre-applied threadlock on it, so it isn't an unknown in the industry but certainly not all mobo mfgs bother with that esp as I think a lot of the retail boards are not really intended to go to an SI who is then going to ship the machine, but to an end user who probably will install the hardware on a box that will likely not move very far at all, and will have at least the know-how to inspect and tune their machine if they do something like move or take the machine to a LAN. I would bet boards that are made as OEM private labels and shipped in bulk direct to SIs come without hardware and the SI would source appropriate screws and so-on to suit their needs. So StarForge might look into that.
I used to work in a PC-Shop. When we were shipping our PC's we put on some sort of stickers over the Screws to have them less being able to rotate. Of course the customer did have some more work, but I think it was worth it, since we neve had a complain about a lose or lost screw. The most common complains we had was that the big CPU Coolers did get bend or sometimes even almost broke off, since they were reall massive at this time (around 2010-20214 ithink i worked there).
this was a glowing endorsement and honestly the best advertisement for your company, if i had to recommend to a friend a prebuilt id consider star forge because of this review.
I work in the transportation industry. I can tell you that while in transit, the shipment will sacrum to bouncing and vibrations from the road while traveling. Depending on where the shipment is located at on the trailer, it could be more or less vibration. For instance. A shipment on a pup (28 ft box ) or ( 48ft 53ft ) van will ride differently over the axle. This also can be affected by weight of the shipment. The lighter the shipment. The more it tends to vibrate and bounce. A heavier shipment will vibrate and bounce less. This is probably the most likely cause on tiny screws loose and many things. Not just PCs. Dunnage ( Air bags, cardboard, bubble wrap, etc ) is another thing we use to cut down on this along with straps. But we can only do so much preparing a load for transit. Pot holes, uneven roads, etc add to this problem. Even driver error such as a hard hook or erratic driving. A possible solution. A tiny dab of liquid thread locker on the tip of the screw with ample drying time ( 24 hrs ) before transit. I think it should be common sense to check things such as these before use rather than blaming the builder. But it happens. We are all human after all. Hope this info helps to a glimpse into the transportation industry..... Old Dominion Freight Line Inc. Logistics.
Many ordinary users will not know to check screw tightness before using. Adding blue threadlocker should be standard practice for this sort of product IMO.
As uninterested as I am in going over this for your company, just get an industry-standard torq screwdriver and test it to find a torq setting you find works for you. So screw in ten screws with various settings and then vibrate the case somehow to see if any screws loosen up. Then implement a shop standard and train all employees on that standard.
Had loose screws on my alienware laptop when it arrived. Shipping process involves a lot of vibrations. You should include a "quick check" guide so the buyer knows to look over vital assembly areas for loose components. Maybe a little pack of bonus screws as a just in case supply. Cheap effective measures.
The quick check guide is a great idea, since there is nothing the company can do about issues during shipping, having an easy to do checklist to make sure there were no issue could be a solution.
a low strength locktite would fix that issue every time, they used to use it on prebuilds. Also felt washers or rubber washers would help with it too so it can absorb the vibrations.
sorry but loose screws and tape on the heatsink is a fail, if a grandma bought it how would she even fix it? it would be sent back. the main reason people buy pre-built is plug and play, no setup no need to open the thing. You might not see it as a big deal because you know about PC's.
Asmon, add a “locking washer” to prevent radiator bolts from backing out in shipping & paper washers to the motherboard for similar reasons (acts as a spring keeping the bolt tight & mitigating vibration). All PC screws can be purchased with locktight/nylon(which expands as the screw is screwed in) pre-applied but they also sell inserts that you put into the screw-hole before screwing in components that increase friction.
loctite applied in their shop would be more than enough. the blue loctite would be ideal, it's meant to stop screws from backing out unlike the red loctite which is meant to lock a screw in place until melted out.
That was probably the best prebuilt review from GN I’ve seen. And even though the screws have been loose, it hasn’t been thermal throttled to hell like many of the other pre builds. So I see why it was rated this good
Also the screws with those top fan mounts are sometimes very annoying to scew in because that metal is thin & wobbles, especially with a torque limiter.
Got really lucky with the peel screwup on ssd. If they were using a much faster ssd, it would have been problematic. But even though the result from these issues were not catastrophic, they definitely need to avoid those simple mistakes. People are paying the markup for a reason. Mistakes like these should not be happening.
13:52 "HOW TO FIX SCREWS FROM LOSENING" -> 1) Use correct tightening torque. There are tables that suggest the correct one for each screw type. 2) If there is vibration - for example transportation - screw can become lose. Often companies will use "locite" to prevent this.
Screws vibrating loose was solved decades ago it's called threadlocking compound. In this case the solid stick form in low strength (blue) would be appropriate. It's tube that looks like lipstick that you wipe the side of the screw on so that you have a little stripe of it one side of the threads then screw it in. It solidifies when exposed to metal and keeps the screw from backing out from vibration. Different colors indicate different strength ranged from "can be easily removed with a hand screwdriver" to "the screw will never come out ever" I have no idea why the PC industry hasn't learned about this stuff yet because it's been around forever.
You did well. For a young company one of the hard things to get is consistent attention to detail. It's all part of the maturity curve. You'll sort it out. And from Gamers Nexus that was high praise :)
Asmon has such a good serious eagerness to make corrections and improve that it's been one of the most enjoyable things I've seen of him. I don't watch often but this has me appreciating him as a person
I'm persistently amazed by Zach's business analysis, insights, instinct, and customer focus. I really enjoy business content too. I found this video truely entertaining and informative! Well done.
At 30:13 Reaction to the sound chamber.... You said it's insane, they spent $250,000 on it....AND they have somebody come out on a regular basis to test it and make sure that it's within certified specifications....
It's really refreshing to see your commitment to solving problems without thinking you personally know all the answers. Seems very sound from a company ownership perspective, and it gives me a new level of respect for you and for Starforged.
The fact that you watch your reviews and comment on them real time is admirable. I don't purchase prebuilt's but if I was to refer someone to a SI it would be you guys. Enjoy these videos a lot!
Metal screws into metal grooves will always move with rattling movements in shipping. Loctite Blue 242 I would maybe pre tip on the ends on the 8 screws going into the motherboard or stuff loose inside. I break and rebuild a lot of RC cars and you need to use blue 242 to keep the metal together.
So yeah get Skyforge to use torque setting screwdrivers if they aren't already, OEM doing it all by hand-feels-about-right is not good enough. ANOTHER thing I would do is get some low-grip loctite which creates a little bit of resistance (don't overuse it) on the threads so during shipping they don't wiggle undone!
Honestly this is one of the best reviews I've ever seen him give of a prebuilt in the past few years. Props for taking the constructive criticism well. Considering some of the massive issues he's seen with other companies, the few issues were super fixable both in the moment and process-wise.
My thing is that the mistakes were mistakes, not bloatware, cheaping out on components, or otherwise being malicious or unforgivably incompetent. Given how disappointing even seemingly the best system integrators are at times, I'm kinda relieved to actually see this work out so far! That and the detailed, actionable steps in the feedback is unprecedented. If only TH-camrs could learn a thing or two before making a response/apology.
Agreed, Pre-Built companies can't fix when they screw over the customer on purpose with bloatware, using cheap parts or downright incompetency, because screwing the customer is on purpose for a profit motive or beyond their capability. But lots of mistakes in details can be fixed when given the right feedback and fairly easily, adding/adjusting QA, setting up verification steps, using appropriate tool to mitigate a recurring issue or adding support to avoid transport damage. Adding verification steps, using Torque Screwdriver might help reduce the screw and unmoved sticker to a rare occurrence it's far from any of the really egregious errors I had witnessed with other PCs.
yeah the peal sticker and the floppy front was the two worst things for me, screws CAN happen in Shipping but it's usually like ONE, not that many... and the overtightened one definetly wasn't shipping.
13:50 When you screw a pannel, each screw you put will deform the plate and conform it to a certain way. Therefore, even when you screw each one tight at the moment, they may become lose after you screw the next ones. This phonomenon is documented on the internet and the problem isn't that hard to fix (screw all "on contact but lose" to get the right positon, add "a little" torque on every screw, check if no screw has become lose during the process and put back some torque if it has become lose, repeat process if needed.).
I love to see that Asmon takes these issues to heart. This is what we need from these SI. Keep up the work on making these better and better. I build my own but glad to see you are hopefully addressing these issues.
I've got a computer I built earlier last year, but I am looking into a prebuilt later this year as a backup for future streaming etc, and your honesty has made me a future customer (:
20:53 Screws come with the case, not with the motherboard. Only screws that attach to negative threads on the motherboard (e.g. M.2 screw) will come with the motherboard itself. I dimly recall this may have been different in the distant past, but by and large, you get the case mounting hardware with the case itself. At this point, I have a few hundred standard case screws (the ones that mount the motherboard, 5.25" drives, power supplies, etc.), so I can't possibly recall where they all came from.
As a pc builder myself, this is a fantastic pc and I appreciate another builder that puts this effort into the cable managament, he was trying to find very small things for content, besides the ssd peel there was nothing wrong at all.
they're still a new company going through growing pains, it wouldn't surprise me if it was overlooked. hell, in the military there is a special 8-in/LB torque wrench used for coax on antennas on helicopters that i didn't know about till i was 5 years in @@stevevaii1094
As a solution to your screw problem. The screw hole tolerance might not be good. The hole might be too big for the screw. And therefore the screw even though tight, can back out easily by hand. Seen it on many things before.
rubber/plastic spacers are nice too. not only will it help you get it tighter but it will also prevent the screws from sneaking through the holes wich IS a thing that can happen ( for the AIO)
Gamers Nexus has the best testing, the best equipment, and believes strongly in its ethics which has gained them such stature in the industry, their next level. Because Steve isn't in this for the money and he does everything so upfront and honestly I tend to ONLY listen to his reviews and opinions when deciding on a component purchase. Gamers Nexus is also the only channel that I've ever purchased merchandise from and disabled my AdBlock for.
as a millwright student and having a few classes on quality assurance, hearing what has to say about the screws and the little details is quite nice to hear. "i have to find what is causing the issues before I try to fix it." perfect, we call that Root Cause Analysis" a recommendation that I have is ship a PC to the Wearhouse without anyone knowing and seeing what problems a customer might see when they first open the box.
They could have an A3 template on a permanent whiteboard on the wall in the meeting room or at the workshop, so that all employees get engaged. It's a decent way for a company to take steps towards Lean manufacturing philosophy.
as a business analyst with 20 years experience I can say that you hit the nail right on the head. Observing the process will also help, and checking as many units as feasible to see if this is a process problem where every PC assembler is doing it or there's just one person who is responsible for the issues and needs taking off the line for refresher training. A sample size of 1 can tell you there's a problem but not what that problem is.
the build itself is really good, but like Steve said attenion to detail is key. your front fan cover can use very slight adjustments with size to help with fitment. one of the few pre-builds that actually is a solid build.
I personally have started using loctite on everything after building firearms. If you use the blue loctite you can easily take it apart later but they won't come out on their own from vibrations. Ppl saying consistent torque but when you're fitting parts you'll find the first screws will not be as tight as the part finds it home so unless you go back and torque the same screws multiple times that won't help
No joke if someone asked me advise on a prebuilt. I’d def recommend one. The support and them being a passionate group wanting to get it right being the biggest selling points
Linus has one of your PCs in his annual Secret Shopper - tech support and hardware review - segment as well. He also had nice words to say about it. You should be proud of what your company is doing. Keep it up!
Yeah, "Overall Pretty Good" is very high praise from GN. What is even more impressive is your response. Kudos and I WOULD recommend your systems for consideration over many others.
@20:50 I would hope someone mentioned it already, but FYI, all screws come with the CASE not the Motherboard. So if you elect to go with a different case to possibly resolve the air intake issue mentioned, you would get different screws. From my personal perspective, in MOST situations, I have not really seen a big difference in screw quality. That being said most of my builds are using either Corsair or Thermaltake cases. Hope this helps.
Throwing my 2 cents in, having been a mechanics apprentice at one point: all screws fitting well is highly dependent on technique. If you screw them in a certain order/way (do one, then do its opposite, then the rest, and recheck at the end) it's almost impossible for any to be loose. Best wishes to asmon, otk and starforge! Edit: microtaping screws helps for shipping, limiting vibration in transit (the type of tape that's on the inside, between the screw and its hole Kappa)
Decent build man. I've been doing this since the mid to late 80's. You guys are doing great! Learning and continuing to do better. Cable management is well done! 8 out of 10 for this build. Bravo!
25:14 yes it could damage the m.2, that plastic will thermally insulate the drive which could potentially cause it to overheat, and you don't wanna overheat a harddrive like an m.2
I never buy prebuilds as I just put them together myself, but I really love this honest and open breakdown of your choices. There's so many shitty SI's, I'm happy to see starforge take steps to become the best one.
I work in aviation and after every torque step we have a QC guy verify that all the screws have been tightened and it's DIRECTLY signed for for accountability reasons. I don't know if y'all do this but you may have to have a stepped out process for the build process. Real quick and easy fix honestly. Like you've probably noticed in the recent news that Alaskan plane that had the plug door come off in mid flight, who ever signed off that step is going to catch a huge amount of heat for that. Also they do make manual clicking torquing screw drivers. I personally have one but in aviation I CANNOT legally use it because everything has to be calibrated every 6 months which is also something you may have to look into after so many uses. I hope this little bit of insight helps you out if you do somehow read this comment.
@@Leon78536 I don't know what's funny about being serious. I mean you saw what happened with Alaskan airline. They had undocumented maintenance and that plug door came right off.
@@Leon78536 I agree to an extent but it's one way of many to hold employees accountable for the work they do, the service(s) and product(s) provided by the company they work for. Nothing is perfect but having something in place is better than nothing at all.
I watched the original video when it first dropped, and I was seriously impressed with where your company is at. Steve is famously unforgiving in his reviews, and while he pointed out areas needing more attention, this is the best review of a pre-built I can remember from GN. I personally would like to see what a process change in your build area. I think the screw torque issue is a matter of tooling and attention, and the SSD thermal pad is entirely a matter of attention to detail. I would also like to see a higher quality of fan and a more free-flowing front intake on your case. Those details aren't up to the same standard as the rest of the component selection and workmanship in the system. I really, really want to see Starforge hit the mark. You clearly have the passion, and you clearly have capable people. You also have an attitude towards customer service that makes me want to spend money with you, even though I can and do build my own systems. Take those criticisms on-board, and Starforge could be building 10 out of 10 systems.
14:00 about the screws not being tight.. the issue is the order in which the screws are screwed in. if u know how to tighten a wheel on a car its the same principle here. either find the best order by trial and error or double check the screws
Congrats! Having worked as a manufacturing and process engineer, just a teeny tiny bit of threadlocker is enough for screws to be set in place. Having torque screwdrivers will help assembly too, and having a checklist/control plan for each phase of assembly will hopefully prevent issues like the one with the SSD thermal pad.
14:24 look at laptop screws.. the systems are designed to be transported and nudged about so the screws all have that blue style glue on them to help stop them getting loose during transportation.. that’s how I’d approach this..
I think I’m going to buy one. No joke
i did. its great, just like anything else check over it and enjoy
Please don't :( Build your own PC.
Same tbh, just for the lols. My brother said I’m retarded because all I play is season of discovery, aoe2 and halo.
pinned lol
just build one yourself tho
Anyone who follows GN on a regular basis will know that this was insanely high praise coming from them. Their attention to detail in reviews is unmatched and they are brutally honest. By GN standards, this was about as close to a glowing endorsement as you can get.
Yup, this is a good review. Gamers Nexus are extremely detail oriented, good job!
very true
Tech Jesus (probably almost) died for our System integrator sins
steve is like the final boss of PC reviewers, if you succeed in one of his reviews, you've basically won
@@mateofantasma I do not think messing up the MB screws and forgot to peel off the thermal pad are details.
You buy pre-build PC exactly for the reason you do not want to handle this kind of shit... and have it 100% correct.
For anyone not following GN news, Starforge apparently reached out to GN in a matter of hours after their review went live with plans to fix the mistakes GN found. Now obviously nobody knows if that actually ends up doing anything yet BUT it was a well worded and quick response and the overall judgement from Steve even with those mistakes was very good, especially considering other prebuilds.
Yeah, the last GN video confirm this and provide more details. It's great to see how these interactions have been very professional with the clear intention to make a better product to everyone. Now that the ball is in Starforge's side, let's hope everything goes well.
People have been complaining about some of these issues for years and they've done nothing.
@@forestman111 For years huh, enlighten me how long do you think Starforge exists?
@@forestman111 Starforge wasn't even out 2 years... so can't be years plural lol. Bro plz
@@forestman111 and "some of these issues" like there's tens of them. It was a couple loose screws and a sticker not being removed, where exactly is the some of these you're talking about
Steve is known for being very critical, him saying "I gave it to someone" is basically his version of extremely high praise!
What else would he do with it? Throw it in the garbage?
@@Akadehmix he did that with a 5k alienware pc
Right! I've seen Steve review plenty of pre builds and other youtubers. Star forge knocked it out of the park all things said. And yes steve saying that was about the highest praise he would ever give a pre built pc.
@@Akadehmix pretty sure tech videos either 1. return a it or 2. sell it to their employees with a big discount (mostly probably try to do option 1 before 2)
@@AkadehmixI'm pretty sure they part it out to recoup some of the money, and sometimes yes they just scrap it because some of the pre builts are basically expensive trash and shit can't even be re sold.
I like Steve's straightforward honesty. If your system's got off generally lightly in a review by GN, you've done a good job. As for the packaging, I remember years ago when I had a small computer building business. I mailed one off via courier and the motherboard blew when the user turned it on. The package had been shaken so violently that the CPU heatsink/fan had shifted so that it was touching a capacitor. So he returned it and I rebuilt it with a new motherboard. He was then screaming on the phone at me because this time the case had a split down the front.
I found out a few years later that these problems were caused by the courier. A larger company had been using them but getting damaged monitors returned. They investigated and found that the courier's conveyor belts had a 1 metre drop on the end and items were just being allowed to fall from it onto the floor. That courier was one of the UK's largest but is now no longer in business. Pretty sure I had some graphics cards stolen by them as well.
6 feet onto concrete sucks, but generally that's how automated shipping sorting works. Packages will fall from belt to belt and off to whatever. Packages can't stack up at the end if there isn't a drop, they would back up on the belt.
And the falls aren't the worst of it, in high speed sorting lines they have diverter arms that thwack the packages off the belt onto other belts.
Packages need to be packed properly and computers rarely are. If you repack it in the case's box, those usually aren't rated to protect the shipment with the additional weight of components. And if the box has already been shipped once before, it should be considered compromised. Boxes and hard foam are like used bike helmets, they may look fine but they may not be fine at all.
Were the monitors you're talking about LCD or CRT?
LCD monitors are easy enough to pack to ship and handle a 6 foot drop, but CRTs would make the boxes huge.
All of the items I've received damaged from Amazon or eBay were not packed properly. Sometimes I think it's a miracle that certain sellers are in business at all with how lousy they pack things.
I wouldn't want my purchases to fall 6 feet onto concrete, but they sure should be packed like that's a possibility.
If it's the one I'm thinking, they just rebranded themselves. It's those pricks from Hermes, right? They're now Evri and still the same crap, different name.
@@OfficialDJSoru No. It was Parceline. Remember their yellow and green vans? They were everywhere. It was only a little while ago that I realised I hadn't seen one for a while and discovered they'd gone under.
@@daviddavies3637Out of curiosity, I did a quick search and found Parceline is rebranded as dpd.
My issue with dpd in previous residence is that they treated me as 'honorable' customer, that they allocated the delivery timeslot to be at 7 AM, i.e. the first delivery of the car that day. Ans being the first one means that the notification came by last minute - if I overslept even a bit, I will miss the delivery.
@@daviddavies3637 Parceline are now DPD mate
As a career IT field support guy, the screw situation doesn't need any complicated or expensive solution: it's literally just a workflow issue. You solve it by getting everyone together, and you say, "Hey guys, you're killing it, but I need you guys to stop and check your screws and peel-offs on each component before moving on to the next one." A checklist sheet of little things to look for between steps might help there.
Very proud to see Starforge doing this well in just a year or two. This kind of work isn't easy; it's common for a lot of IT guys to forget a lot of little things that end up impacting overall performance over the life of a workstation, so seeing only a few loose screws and similar minor hiccups is a great sign.
Doubt I'll ever buy a pre-built when I can do it myself, but if I had to recommend a pre-built to a friend, Starforge looks like they'll be on the short list of recommendations.
I think a more workable solution would be to designate a single person on the team to be the vibration QA guy and give him a responsibility to check all the screws before shipping.
When they step up to a computer in order to assemble it, they have lots of different tasks on their mind and forget a screw or two per assembly.
So no matter how often you tell them to check the screws, you won't have a 100% guarantee that every single screw will be tightened.
The trick is to have one guy step up to every assembled computer with a single goal: to torque every screw up to spec.
That way, he'll have a different mindset when he does it: one that is focused entirely on checking all the screws as thoroughly and as quickly as possible.
He won't miss things - not when he's the only person responsible for this task.
Yeah this seems like the solution is simple, just tell the people doing the assembly to be aware of it and that will probably do the trick
I just want one of the foot 🦶 rest PCs
Using a mesh like Fractal does for the front panel will solve the airflow front cover issue IMO
All you saying doesn't need an expensive solution etc, really aren't fully thinking this out when taking the whole environment, size of company etc etc etc. It's not just a case "get a checklist" or "take more time". They are definitely valid and maybe should be utilised if not already but they 100% should have free floating auto torque systems in place in a company like that. I'd argue 80% of this would be fixed with an auto torque system, 20% labour checks such as additional time and checks.
And yes I do know what I'm on about in this regard.
Asmon has an amazing attitude towards taking feedback and wanting the product to be better. Far better than many larger companies do.
He's also an investor, he's not involved in the day to day operations of starforge. The streamers are just there for publicity for the brand. And its not just Asmon that is watching the video, obviously the executive team at Starforge are watching it and are making the actual changes needed.
@@kenbobcornhe own the company
Maybe, but he didnt react the Linus’s secret shopper
@aimanuarpro That's what being an investor is. He and the other streamers invested in the company to be shareholders. Not MAJORITY shareholders, but a part of the company.
@@sjneow tbf.. linus wasn't very consistent in his ratings with that
He hates e waste one time, but gives points for a company including e waste. He wants them to sell their deal on the phone, but is mad when they actually give you a deal they want to sell.
And in the conclusion they went and did all updates, including BIOS, changed all the performance enhancing bios options like enabling XMP on the prebuilds before testing the performance
that is absolutely the last thing a normal buyer will do and greatly changes the results the systems would produce
its actually a HUGE compliment, to have somebody like GamersNexus, TELL YOU TO YOUR FACE, your product is good enough for ME to gift it to another person. im not sure ive ever heard GN say something like that, in such a way. he was genuinely impressed, and i think he was even thinking about that double shipping with screw retention... great review, and a great video review sir! impressive, my next PC ill be buying from your company
I would say this is looking pretty good for Starforge. Some small details but otherwise looking very good! I would also say that I really like that Asmon is not afraid to watch this live on stream in front of thousands of people, really shows character of the company trying to do as good job as possible (also pretty cool you get feedback from big reviewer and you can improve on it).
Implying all of the Starforge streamers haven't already seen it together as soon as it dropped.
I would argue that he does this to inspire a sense of trust in the product, "If the primary stakeholder is willing to watch a review live, they must have integrity." not to mention, anytime he watches a review of his own product, its free marketing. People don't think they are being shown an add, or that it is sponsored, they think he feels an obligation to watch his own products review. Perhaps his plan worked on you? If they were trying to do as good a job possible, they likely would have designed a panel with remotely optimized airflow. The company exists to make money, as it should. I wouldn't assign morals or ethical standards to a non-personifiable entity that exists to produce money for its owners, investors, or employees.
like you think they don't know that the front panel is cheap and somewhat ineffective? Of course they do, but like Asmon said, he doesn't know if its worth changing, or in other words, he doesn't know if his customer base cares, or knows enough about computers to find contention with it. People want to see the expensive hardware, the buzzwords. After all, they are selling personal computers to people of whom don't want to build it themselves.
Asmon keep your chin up, having a Steve review that doesn't end horrendous is a very good thing. Dude is not only probably the most respected PC hardware reviewer to date, he is also the most meticulous in the biz. The fact you all responded so fast as a company to his review with acknowledgement and commitment to work on it, and just your overall reaction and concern for tightening and improving processes shows you all are gonna be alright. I don't think I've ever seen a perfect Steve review tbh so yeah you guys are doing good for sure.
he also got pretty hair
@@method138He *is* Tech Jesus after all.
I think Steve could criticize a cinder block. And if I didn't think his standard was that absurd, I'd not watch him. Its what makes him the goat.
@@method138 pretty is an understatement for that beautiful mane.
The youtube comment making a comparison between Steve saying the computer is "pretty good" and "would give it to someone he knows" is like LPL saying he'd use the lock himself is a great comparison.
Asmon, OTK and the Starforge team should honestly be _very_ thankful for such an objective, in-depth and high-tier critique of their product. Companies spend thousands to do this kind of QA testing in-house and they are getting it for free. GN truly are the realest of deals - massive respect to them for their dedication to excellence as well as their hardline consumer perspective. Oh and the PCs look pretty good too!
Free? They got PAID to receive this criticism lol
@@StuPVthey paid for the system, they are referring to the free advice and review
loose screws on any part of a PC is totally unacceptable, no matter what you say.
apparently they immediately made a respond through email in 6 hours about the screws according to Steve in one the new vid
Asmon's attitude of "This isn't our fault, but we should still try to address it" is an extremely good attitude to have for a business. so many times Businesses will blame their suppliers without any self awareness that it's part of their business decisions. They can choose a different supplier, or work with their suppliers to improve the quality, or making sure the screws are tight enough after delivery.
Not just that, but Asmon also has good deductive reasoning skills. Soon as they came across the screw that was too tight, he said "this must be an issue with the process because it is inconsistent," which is exactly right given Starforge's alleged statement to GN. These are the types of leaders we need as a community and I hope that Starforge gets a boost in business thanks to GN and this video.
the screws are their fault though?
@@NewsofPEyeah screw don’t just loosen out of nowhere.
@@Maknorr-v8w even in shipping, screws don't get THAT loose, and not only a couple of them, if it was shipping, half of them would be in that state instead of just 3
@@NewsofPE Screws like that absolutely come loose during things like shipping. Whether or not that’s the sole reason or whatever isn’t up for debate. There are things that could be used like Loctite. I used to work for a medical/military electronic manufacturer. That’s what we used on any screws that we were putting on PCBs, because they would come loose during shipping all the time lol. It’s an issue that can be caused by multiple factors, and he’s pretty much saying well we got to do what we can do on our end to try to prevent that from happening is all.
Massive respect for how well you receive feedback. This is _exactly_ what I'd want from someone to whom I'd give $4-500 overhead to build a computer. Very happy to send you some business the next time I refresh my windows machine.
If this is anyone's first Asmongold video, they see a CEO of a company paying attention to an honest critique of their product and speaking with their community about it in a serious and respectful manner. That alone makes me deeply consider my next PC being a Starforge PC.
@@Zileas0100:14 literally says it’s his company 🤷
@@whiteshadow1189 zileas beeing peanutbrain himself, he just thinks the same of others. Also 50% of asmon content is reacting, ofc he will react to video reviewing his companys work. Like stop putting him on such a high horse, literal simps
@@Zileas01 What do you mean? He did literally say he's involved with the company. Multiple times throughout the video, he talks about the issues that Gamers Nexus brings up on how he needs to fix it. At 3:45, Gamers Nexus themselves literally say in their video that it's owned by OTK and says Asmongold's name, and then literally shows a clip of Asmon dinking around with a PC from his own company. Did you even watch the first 5 minutes of the video?
@@Zileas01 Never collabs with another member of OTK, but he literally has a whole podcast with two of them. Okay, man.
He is not the ceo, he is one if the owners
Given how critical and thorough Steve and his team are, a "pretty good" is absolutely glowing. Good job, you guys can get better from here.
"pretty good" after multiple reviews.... you're just a fan boy
@@NoEphingIdeaDo you even watch the video? Its like you got nothing from it. It was really thorough.
@@brainswag yeah I liked the part where a motherboard standoff was loose and could potentially fry compenents… are you just pretending to be stupid?
It's really not going to get better than that. I remember seeing a review he did on a computer case a few years ago, his verdict was "we don't have any particular problem with this case", and that was a pretty solid recommendation from him, lol.
Tbh most prebuilt PCs are just terrible, with shockingly low quality. I dont think Steve is overly critical or anything.
But this definitely seems to be a step up compared to most pre builts, much more what they should be. Makes me happy to see, even tho Im not in the market for prebuilts.
I really appreciate the fact that Asmond is actually invested in the constructive criticism that's given and is fully taking it in as something that needs to be worked on, as opposed to "these people are trying to bring us down by finding our faults"
Asmon has always seemed to be one of the most in tune people on twitch. He knows there’s zero reason for these big tech TH-camrs to lie, they review dozens of shit computers yearly, and if they see something shit, they aren’t going to gloss over it. Asmon understands that as valuable criticism and not some throwaway comments like you mentioned. He actually understands that criticism is valuable, unlike a large majority of companies.
@@gregoryent They also started out by selling comps that were well crap with garbage specs and so he addressed that too
You could apply (Loctite) Purple 222 for small screws. What is the blue stuff on laptop screws?
The blue coating on laptop screws is typically a thread-locking adhesive that helps to keep the screws in place and prevent them from loosening due to vibrations or other movements. It provides additional security for the components inside the laptop and helps to maintain the integrity of the device
Doesn't matter if during the assembly their screw guns are tuned for too low of a torque spec and are just driving them in to contact them onto the next. Loctite is not necessary in any case. They have locking teeth on the underside of these screw heads so they work by themselves IF YOU tighten them in correctly which they failed to.
That trolling by Steve with the streamer voice analysis was the hardest I've laughed on a TH-cam video in a while. That was absolute gold. Azz mon gold.
I thought Emis voice would be super low on their scale when they did it
For the screws, typically companies will put a medium-hold thread-lock on the threads before assembly to prevent them from coming loose. Some screws can probably be held in place as-is by engineering design too, but that's not the standard screws that you'd see in most places.
As an engineer, thread forming screws are generally prevailing torque, but the fine threaded screws used on the MB and the cooler could definitely benefit from thread lock. A lot of screws can be purchased with pre-applied thread lock patch on the screw threads. I don't know if screws that small can be purchased that way, but it is common on larger hardware.
This was a good comment @TheAceInfinity
@@AC273 It's good to have a real engineer comment on my suggestion!
@@AC273You'd think they'd be able to get pre-applied screws. Pretty sure laptops use pre-applied micro encapsulated threadlock and they're tiny. Can't imagine someone is blotting on a threadlock by hand. Standard Loctite also eats and destroys some plastics so would be terrible for laptops.
I love that, unlike others, you're not taking this personally and see it as a learning experience for future builds. This just shows how serious you are at making this a better experience for the customers.
yeah i totaly agree but Asmon talking about not wanting to buy a new car when he is a litteral millionaire grinds my geares lol hes a cheapskate
@@73delgado SOME folks do not have a hole in their head or heart that they need to fill with $1,600 sneakers or a new car every time the season changes. If that "grinds your gears" then that is a "you" problem.
@@73delgado I think it's hilarious. It wouldn't be Asmon if he wasn't a cheapskate 🤣
@@73delgado Someone already mentioned, that is your problem. High School mindset
Yeah, Asmon is definitely taking those critics the right way. As he mentioned, this is pretty much a free external audit for their company.
I've been doing this kind of work for 20 years, regarding a couple loose screws, its about building a consistent employee base, if youre constantly cycling through good assemblers, you'll consistently find missing or loose bolts and stuff. When you do something enough you get a routine and these little things dont happen
I have watched numerous secret prebuilt videos of GN and just getting "decent" remark from Steve is a good enough reason to be happy. Let alone a near perfect score. It's is the highest compliment that he has ever given to another SI.
I'd say "I gave it to someone" is the highest compliment Steve ever gave a prebuilt.
decent and I gave it to someone is a good rating considering they basically shitcanned a 6k PC and didnt even give it away to anyone
@@WayStedYou yeah "I would give it to someone" ranks a lot better than "Better than Dell" and "Better than Wallmart" badges for sure
Most SI would be happy to get the "better than a Dell" from GN.
Gamer's Nexus is the one of the very few channels I trust for unbiased hardware reviews, esp. after the recent controversy with Linus Tech Tips. That was a fair review, & a good response by the vendor. This is how you build trust with the customer - other companies please learn.
To be fair to linus, the controversy had little to do with impartiality and more to do with mistakes in bench marks and weird results in tests in most if not all cases it was during a single test for a single of the compared product and didn't really change the results.
Also the issue with the auction prototype water cooler that was handle in every form poorly by linus even if he compensated the team that build it after and yes i know they originally "gave it" to them for keeps but linus sticking to the "we can ask for it back" bit felt really weird to me, whoever bought it would probably accepted a refound and maybe some additional compensation if needed, that was just linus sticking to his stubborn decision
Personally even after linus said they were gonna work on fixing stuff i have found they really haven't so i have drifted from their content but given that a good chunck of asmond audience is probably not aware of the controversy i thought it fair to explain it
not really a good idea since people looked into GN after that whole drama and pretty much exposed he's a massive hypocrite and liar.
@@kuro_emiyaexamples and sources?
@@kuro_emiya
I believe you because you because I automatically believe anonymous posters who attack people while providing zero evidence, context, sources or any actual information whatsoever on what they are claiming, I definitely don’t instantly think they are just idiots with absolutely nothing worthwhile to say.
@@UtterlyShagged Because he seems to not be posting anything and YT hates links with a burning passion, the only real critique I could find in a, albeit quick, search was a video titled "No one is talking about the REAL issue - Gamers Nexus and Linus Tech Tips". The video criticizes Steve for even reviewing products from sponsors. Not really a great argument and a good portion of the video is just kinda garbage, but it's what I could find on a search.
I think this is the best review on a prebuilt system I’ve ever seen from gamers Nexus, he usually tears them to shreds.
Facts
14 minutes in and so far the rig has so many flaws & cheap design choices. GN is just phrasing it in a more cordial way.
@@Delirio2 So many flaws? like 2-3?
@@Delirio2it was pretty decent review compared to every other brand.
Of course prebuilt pcs are for morons but still.
@@Delirio2 Lol, some sticker not removed from a SSD and a few loose screws are not "so many flaws & cheap design choices". wtf.
Steve not trashing this is actually decently high praise. Really, fixing some of the design things and a bit of process could make it a really high end product. Honestly, I'd recommend this to family and friends already. They just want to place the PC on the desk and plug things in and it works. Always keep your customer in mind, which seems like you are kind of your customer, so you should probably be trying all the products out. The tape on the ssd is likely the biggest issue.
Respect for airing this and taking an interest in what Starforge is delivering to the customer. FWIW everything I've heard about them is positive. You're never going to hit 100% perfect all the time, but getting a "it's pretty good" from Steve really means you're doing awesome.
I won a starforge comp in a giveaway. it's so quiet my wife thought it was broken for like a week. it's the $1200 version
A screw loose is far more dangerous then just a noise in the PC. If that screw happens to fall and touch 2 contacts on the board it could short circuit things on the board
Exactly. Starforge has a history of fuggery. Linus did a review on this a while ago "Linus Tech Tips Bought My Computer" and found detached, incorrectly plugged into port cables and licensing errors. Sticky tape left on the thermals now? are you effing kidding me??? Anyone who buys their stuff and or gives this a positive review needs to see a doctor.
That part where GN shows Asmon unboxing his pc was priceless 😂
I love how much he actually cares about the quality and improving it anywhere possible, that's hard to find in any industry now a days.
for the screws: spring washers to put torque on the screws so they won't loosen to vibrations OR loctite threadlocker (the blue one)
Or hear me out... Tighten them down properly so they don't loosen. OEM manufacturers have been using Asians for decades and rarely if ever are there loose screws in a dell or gateway or Acer. Lazy Americans
Gotta say I'm genuinely impressed with your reaction and willingness to learn from GN's review. I'm a huge GN fan, and I already recommended a Starforge system to some coworkers after seeing their review. I was super impressed by Starforge's response to GN, and now watching this I'm even more impressed with Starforge's leadership.
@@JesusChristIsLord.PraiseGOD. Me and my dad actually looked at Starforge PCS and how much they would cost to make them yourself because i wanted a new PC and only had a budget of 1500€ and let me tell you this... you can totally build a better quality PC by yourself for 1500€ than 3000-4000€ starforge PCS
They are not bad they are not EXTREMELY SCAMMY or smth like that but 300-4000 isn't really a good price here...
I went from watching all Linus and no GN, to the other way. I barely watch LTT and much prefer GN. I think I'd honestly be terrified of GN reviewing a product I've created lol, this went really well, though IMO.
Linus had some good points about the Starforge PC they bought, but some were really fucking braindead. He complained that they left the peel-able protective plastic off some components... really... it's honestly an integral part of unboxing something BRAND new. I don't know about anyone else, but if I bought a brand new PC - or other product - and there were no bits of protective plastic, that'd instantly make me think 'cheap' or that they're cutting corners.
Besides, *that peeling feeling* is almost unmatched.
@@JesusChristIsLord.PraiseGOD. I can cook the same food that I get from takeout by getting the ingredients and cooking it myself, can build a house cheaper than buying one, can fix my electronics cheaper than hiring someone to do it for me
as always, outsourcing knowledge and inconvenience costs you money, absolutely nothing new there
@@gopnikolai7483 yes but on a pre built pc you shouldnt have protective plastic on the inside. Cause now you get a built pc and have to open up the case remove the plastic and then put the case back on, its a prebuilt pc there should be no plastic on the INSIDE. prebuilt pcs are for people that dont know or dont want to built pcs so there is no point in leaving the plastic inside, the customer should be able to turn their pc on as soon as they get it.
@@julose2678 oh no. God forbid you have to - AT MOST - undo a whole 2 thumbscrews (a truly terrifying concept).
Opening a single side panel in 15 seconds doesn't just instantly void its 'pre-built' status or purpose. That's like complaining that your Ford or Honda is a kit car and you're not happy because you have to... OPEN THE BONNET TO FILL THE OIL! (Another truly terrifying concept, I know.)
Not to mention a number of pre-built PCs from different companies come with sealed expanding foam packs inside to stop components from being damaged in transit.
Don't wanna deal with anything related to desktops, get a console.
As someone who works in the manufacturing space. My first solution to the screw problem would be electric torque wrenches (super expensive but fast) or just regularly calibrated torque screw drivers (get 1 screw driver for each torque, do not let the line change torque values on the fly, color code multiple tools, calibrate on a schedule). Tighten screws in a pattern, go over the pattern at least twice. Since in a PC not all screws are needed and the danger is actually having one fall out more than having one that is not properly tightened. At my work we started using screws that have thread locker (Loctite) baked on to the threads, that way we don't have to mess with liquid thread locker and we throw away all included hardware. Again to clarify I work in manufacturing, we do not manufacture computers so some of my suggestions might not apply, just sharing what I know from what we do.
All of this except the thread locker seems like good advice here but no pc made with enthusiast upgradeable off the shelf parts should have threadlocker ANYWHERE lol
@@torunsmok5890Blue loctite isn't bad, though. It won't make the screws stuck permanently and is immensely useful in preventing screws from backing out due to vibrations and such that can happen in transportation. In what way would it be bad?
Yes that's all really good, I just don't agree with using electric (power) tools on delicate electronics. Hand tools with a torque that breaks away once the right pressure has been achieved along with the proper application of the loctite, is a great suggestion. Could maybe use a nylon thread anchor (nut) instead of the loctite.
@@PyroGam3s I understand the concern with power tools however they have come a long way in the past few years and can be programmed to be more precise than even hand torque wrenches. I would never recommend a standard, or amazon grade power tool be used. Something like the Atlas Microtorque series or similar goes down to 0.11 inch pounds, but costs a premium.
@@PyroGam3s There are assembly line screwdrivers that you can setup to the exact torque you want to get a near perfect fit for the screw each time, its very inneficient manually screw these on. My guess is they have a basic 20 dollar screwdriver they do all the jobs and since its not consistent the worker more likely leave it loose than overthighten it.
Reacting to a GN Video is ballsy. They are fair but BRUTAL with high standards and have ABSOLUTELY MURDERED some SIs in the past, tearing them and their builds apart to the point of turning them into Memes (see "better than Dell" award). I'd honestly like to see him react to the Dell G5 video to put the praise he got from GN in context. Anything beyond "not absolutely terrible" from them is already an achievement.
Hey - I've been thinking about an entirely new PC case design concept that could solve the shipping problem. Picture this: instead of separate cooling parts that can break in transit, what if the case frame itself contained liquid cooling channels? It would be a totally new approach - case structure that's both the protection AND the cooling system. Nobody's done this yet, but it could be worth exploring if you're looking to innovate in the custom PC space.
The front panel could be replaced with mesh for better airflow (This could also add some performance to the system and fix some of the acoustic issues by lowing the internal temps. Hence, the fans would spin slower by the fan curve configuration in the BIOS).
The screws could be secured from shipping vibrations with loctite threadlocker.
For the tape in the SSD thermal pad, you could create standardized processes (a checklist) for the builders.
Why Loctite? I use that only on Bikes and such, the Blue one to be precise. Oh there is a purple one that has weak strength, wile I am writing this I just remembered that I had blue flakes come of screws when disassembling electronics, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed as it seems.
@@F1rstp3rson LMAO just stay the fuck away from red cause that shit will FUSE your screws permanently. Any time I needed to remove a bolt from steel structures and I see the red drip from the nut, I just skip to cutting it off.
Purple is for applications that may require frequent disassembly. Blue is designed to be semi-permanent but still removeable with moderate torque and hand tools.
The front panel seems like a custom decoration. They could maybe upsize the holes but probably if they want to stick with the pattern they should just make the gap bigger.
This ain't a hard to cool system.
The case is a Deepcool CK560, which does have a mesh filter behind the decorative panel, just in front of the fans. You can remove the panel, but then the case looks a bit unfinished.
@@F1rstp3rson I have seen the blue one in electronics, I think it would be a good solution for high vibrations. But, experimentation will set us free.
I work in auto industry, they have programs for each tool that will read anything to a 0 torque( completely missed screw) to over torque…your pc will never have any issues with this kind of tool…or have an assigned torque monitor ( person) to check & recheck before shipping
I'll be honest, if this was my first PC I'd be over the moon. Honestly, for the consumer and not folks already online, this is a great PC for a common household.
a little bit over powered for normal household use
@@itsmenoname2247 just a litle bit? That PC is overkill for household use. If household means gaming aswell then its okay.
@@F1rstp3rsonin this day and age, household definitly also means gaming
@@itsmenoname2247no dad, I definitely need this for online class, stop being such a boomer smh
@@itsmenoname2247 you kinda want things to last as software and operating systems become more taxing on the hardware, and this pc is gonna last longer because it just has more performance.
Props to you for watching this and taking an interesting in what could be done better. A lot of this was little things, but I would say the loose screw inside and the m.2 cover tape are the 2 things that need to be sure to fix. Looks like you have a great product here, and I foresee it will get better with time.
The fact Gamers Nexus goes through so much work to test out rigs is amazing, and the positive attitude Asmon has towards feedback - good or bad - is exactly why he's successful. I wish I had known you guys had a PC company when I made my last big gaming PC purchase but rest assured, my next big splurge, I will check you guys out first.
20:15 And in fact, the screw can short and kill some components, costing you even more money. But even if you get they automated screwdriver with the precise torque, vibrations in shipping will forever loosen screws. That's what you need to address way more than the torque (and that's why I suggested shock-absorbent foam instead of bubble-wrap in my other comment. Anything shock-absorbent is also vibration-absorbent)
You paste the screws so they don't loosen up. You can even buy screws with a paste pre-applied.
@@michalkozak6244 I wouldn't go that route. Paste dries up and breaks with vibrations, then you have a loose screw and a bunch of residue
Impressive to hear from Steve himself that the build is "almost perfect". That's the highest praise I've heard from him regarding any prebuilds
This is the perfect example of constructive criticism, or "a complaint is a gift". I'm glad Asmon is smart enough to see it the same way.
This is a great video and honestly, the humility and sheer relief that his work passed muster and willingly took the feedback with humility is a testament to character of a leader. It's about taking feedback in stride and making it better! I'm building a system for my son who has dreams of being a creator, so I'm teaching him how to build the systems.I'm going to consider this solution as a viable strategy for my son's next box. Nice work Team!
Loctite blue is a good option. It's the stuff they use on laptop cover screws to prevent them vibrating out but is light enough that it can be undone.
It's a minor issue, it's not like their only job was to screw things down or anything
@@leeloodogI've seen some hardware on PC components with the yellow pre-applied threadlock on it, so it isn't an unknown in the industry but certainly not all mobo mfgs bother with that esp as I think a lot of the retail boards are not really intended to go to an SI who is then going to ship the machine, but to an end user who probably will install the hardware on a box that will likely not move very far at all, and will have at least the know-how to inspect and tune their machine if they do something like move or take the machine to a LAN. I would bet boards that are made as OEM private labels and shipped in bulk direct to SIs come without hardware and the SI would source appropriate screws and so-on to suit their needs. So StarForge might look into that.
Dont mistake blue for red or youre never getting that screw out 😂😂
@@FullMetalXV unless it's your ex and you're working on it for her
Upvote this guy to the top
having your work rated as pretty good by basically the god of PC tech TH-cam, that's an excellent achievement
I used to work in a PC-Shop. When we were shipping our PC's we put on some sort of stickers over the Screws to have them less being able to rotate. Of course the customer did have some more work, but I think it was worth it, since we neve had a complain about a lose or lost screw.
The most common complains we had was that the big CPU Coolers did get bend or sometimes even almost broke off, since they were reall massive at this time (around 2010-20214 ithink i worked there).
this was a glowing endorsement and honestly the best advertisement for your company, if i had to recommend to a friend a prebuilt id consider star forge because of this review.
Asmon should go on a tour watching some of the other prebuilts GN reviewed, the Starforge one is like a godsend by comparison overall
it would be fun to see him when they saw the other companies in half for being incompetent :D
I work in the transportation industry. I can tell you that while in transit, the shipment will sacrum to bouncing and vibrations from the road while traveling. Depending on where the shipment is located at on the trailer, it could be more or less vibration. For instance. A shipment on a pup (28 ft box ) or ( 48ft 53ft ) van will ride differently over the axle. This also can be affected by weight of the shipment. The lighter the shipment. The more it tends to vibrate and bounce. A heavier shipment will vibrate and bounce less. This is probably the most likely cause on tiny screws loose and many things. Not just PCs. Dunnage ( Air bags, cardboard, bubble wrap, etc ) is another thing we use to cut down on this along with straps. But we can only do so much preparing a load for transit. Pot holes, uneven roads, etc add to this problem. Even driver error such as a hard hook or erratic driving. A possible solution. A tiny dab of liquid thread locker on the tip of the screw with ample drying time ( 24 hrs ) before transit. I think it should be common sense to check things such as these before use rather than blaming the builder. But it happens. We are all human after all. Hope this info helps to a glimpse into the transportation industry..... Old Dominion Freight Line Inc. Logistics.
Many ordinary users will not know to check screw tightness before using. Adding blue threadlocker should be standard practice for this sort of product IMO.
Gotta love fellow logistics peeps. Also, never heard of a box being called a pup. Is that a regional thing?
As uninterested as I am in going over this for your company, just get an industry-standard torq screwdriver and test it to find a torq setting you find works for you. So screw in ten screws with various settings and then vibrate the case somehow to see if any screws loosen up. Then implement a shop standard and train all employees on that standard.
Had loose screws on my alienware laptop when it arrived. Shipping process involves a lot of vibrations. You should include a "quick check" guide so the buyer knows to look over vital assembly areas for loose components. Maybe a little pack of bonus screws as a just in case supply. Cheap effective measures.
The quick check guide is a great idea, since there is nothing the company can do about issues during shipping, having an easy to do checklist to make sure there were no issue could be a solution.
a low strength locktite would fix that issue every time, they used to use it on prebuilds. Also felt washers or rubber washers would help with it too so it can absorb the vibrations.
sorry but loose screws and tape on the heatsink is a fail, if a grandma bought it how would she even fix it? it would be sent back. the main reason people buy pre-built is plug and play, no setup no need to open the thing. You might not see it as a big deal because you know about PC's.
'Not bad overall' is an absolutely shining review from Gamers Nexus. Well done! Keep it up :)
This is a overall impressive win for StarForge. Congrats!!
Asmon, add a “locking washer” to prevent radiator bolts from backing out in shipping & paper washers to the motherboard for similar reasons (acts as a spring keeping the bolt tight & mitigating vibration). All PC screws can be purchased with locktight/nylon(which expands as the screw is screwed in) pre-applied but they also sell inserts that you put into the screw-hole before screwing in components that increase friction.
loctite applied in their shop would be more than enough. the blue loctite would be ideal, it's meant to stop screws from backing out unlike the red loctite which is meant to lock a screw in place until melted out.
That was probably the best prebuilt review from GN I’ve seen. And even though the screws have been loose, it hasn’t been thermal throttled to hell like many of the other pre builds. So I see why it was rated this good
Also the screws with those top fan mounts are sometimes very annoying to scew in because that metal is thin & wobbles, especially with a torque limiter.
Got really lucky with the peel screwup on ssd. If they were using a much faster ssd, it would have been problematic. But even though the result from these issues were not catastrophic, they definitely need to avoid those simple mistakes. People are paying the markup for a reason. Mistakes like these should not be happening.
13:52 "HOW TO FIX SCREWS FROM LOSENING" -> 1) Use correct tightening torque. There are tables that suggest the correct one for each screw type.
2) If there is vibration - for example transportation - screw can become lose. Often companies will use "locite" to prevent this.
Screws vibrating loose was solved decades ago it's called threadlocking compound. In this case the solid stick form in low strength (blue) would be appropriate. It's tube that looks like lipstick that you wipe the side of the screw on so that you have a little stripe of it one side of the threads then screw it in. It solidifies when exposed to metal and keeps the screw from backing out from vibration. Different colors indicate different strength ranged from "can be easily removed with a hand screwdriver" to "the screw will never come out ever" I have no idea why the PC industry hasn't learned about this stuff yet because it's been around forever.
You did well. For a young company one of the hard things to get is consistent attention to detail. It's all part of the maturity curve. You'll sort it out. And from Gamers Nexus that was high praise :)
Asmon has such a good serious eagerness to make corrections and improve that it's been one of the most enjoyable things I've seen of him. I don't watch often but this has me appreciating him as a person
And they actually make those corrections, not just discuss them. That's why their build quality gets better and better with every review.
I'm persistently amazed by Zach's business analysis, insights, instinct, and customer focus. I really enjoy business content too. I found this video truely entertaining and informative! Well done.
At 30:13
Reaction to the sound chamber....
You said it's insane, they spent $250,000 on it....AND they have somebody come out on a regular basis to test it and make sure that it's within certified specifications....
It's really refreshing to see your commitment to solving problems without thinking you personally know all the answers. Seems very sound from a company ownership perspective, and it gives me a new level of respect for you and for Starforged.
The fact that you watch your reviews and comment on them real time is admirable. I don't purchase prebuilt's but if I was to refer someone to a SI it would be you guys. Enjoy these videos a lot!
Metal screws into metal grooves will always move with rattling movements in shipping. Loctite Blue 242 I would maybe pre tip on the ends on the 8 screws going into the motherboard or stuff loose inside. I break and rebuild a lot of RC cars and you need to use blue 242 to keep the metal together.
Of course most gamers don't know engineering
Emphasis on blue, which is the non-permanent variant.
Red loctite if you hate someone
Was going to say the same thing - it's about all you can do, add a dab of blue!
My Rollerblades came with blue loctite and it was still impossible to remove the wheels without an extra long Allen key lmao.
So yeah get Skyforge to use torque setting screwdrivers if they aren't already, OEM doing it all by hand-feels-about-right is not good enough. ANOTHER thing I would do is get some low-grip loctite which creates a little bit of resistance (don't overuse it) on the threads so during shipping they don't wiggle undone!
You can get MANUAL non-electric torque setting screwdrivers also. Hell Temu has one for $10, lol
But loctite will fix them unscrewing during shipping.
Honestly this is one of the best reviews I've ever seen him give of a prebuilt in the past few years. Props for taking the constructive criticism well. Considering some of the massive issues he's seen with other companies, the few issues were super fixable both in the moment and process-wise.
My thing is that the mistakes were mistakes, not bloatware, cheaping out on components, or otherwise being malicious or unforgivably incompetent. Given how disappointing even seemingly the best system integrators are at times, I'm kinda relieved to actually see this work out so far!
That and the detailed, actionable steps in the feedback is unprecedented. If only TH-camrs could learn a thing or two before making a response/apology.
Agreed, Pre-Built companies can't fix when they screw over the customer on purpose with bloatware, using cheap parts or downright incompetency, because screwing the customer is on purpose for a profit motive or beyond their capability.
But lots of mistakes in details can be fixed when given the right feedback and fairly easily, adding/adjusting QA, setting up verification steps, using appropriate tool to mitigate a recurring issue or adding support to avoid transport damage.
Adding verification steps, using Torque Screwdriver might help reduce the screw and unmoved sticker to a rare occurrence it's far from any of the really egregious errors I had witnessed with other PCs.
yeah the peal sticker and the floppy front was the two worst things for me, screws CAN happen in Shipping but it's usually like ONE, not that many... and the overtightened one definetly wasn't shipping.
Congratulations on such an overall positive review from Steve. He is the benchmark for a pc tech reviewer.
13:50 When you screw a pannel, each screw you put will deform the plate and conform it to a certain way. Therefore, even when you screw each one tight at the moment, they may become lose after you screw the next ones. This phonomenon is documented on the internet and the problem isn't that hard to fix (screw all "on contact but lose" to get the right positon, add "a little" torque on every screw, check if no screw has become lose during the process and put back some torque if it has become lose, repeat process if needed.).
I love to see that Asmon takes these issues to heart. This is what we need from these SI. Keep up the work on making these better and better. I build my own but glad to see you are hopefully addressing these issues.
I've got a computer I built earlier last year, but I am looking into a prebuilt later this year as a backup for future streaming etc, and your honesty has made me a future customer (:
"Ya boys, this PC can run Wrath of the Lich King Classic - so ya"
I laughed so hard I spit Whisky all over my monitor
tbf - Blizz's servers often can't.
20:53 Screws come with the case, not with the motherboard. Only screws that attach to negative threads on the motherboard (e.g. M.2 screw) will come with the motherboard itself. I dimly recall this may have been different in the distant past, but by and large, you get the case mounting hardware with the case itself.
At this point, I have a few hundred standard case screws (the ones that mount the motherboard, 5.25" drives, power supplies, etc.), so I can't possibly recall where they all came from.
As a pc builder myself, this is a fantastic pc and I appreciate another builder that puts this effort into the cable managament, he was trying to find very small things for content, besides the ssd peel there was nothing wrong at all.
There is no way Starforge does not use torque screwdrivers....
Even with that only way to solve screws completely would be with loctite threadlocker since shipping vibrates the box a ton@@stevevaii1094
they're still a new company going through growing pains, it wouldn't surprise me if it was overlooked. hell, in the military there is a special 8-in/LB torque wrench used for coax on antennas on helicopters that i didn't know about till i was 5 years in @@stevevaii1094
@@stevevaii1094 they do now. see latest GN update.
As a solution to your screw problem. The screw hole tolerance might not be good. The hole might be too big for the screw. And therefore the screw even though tight, can back out easily by hand. Seen it on many things before.
rubber/plastic spacers are nice too. not only will it help you get it tighter but it will also prevent the screws from sneaking through the holes wich IS a thing that can happen ( for the AIO)
Gamers Nexus has the best testing, the best equipment, and believes strongly in its ethics which has gained them such stature in the industry, their next level. Because Steve isn't in this for the money and he does everything so upfront and honestly I tend to ONLY listen to his reviews and opinions when deciding on a component purchase.
Gamers Nexus is also the only channel that I've ever purchased merchandise from and disabled my AdBlock for.
as a millwright student and having a few classes on quality assurance, hearing what has to say about the screws and the little details is quite nice to hear. "i have to find what is causing the issues before I try to fix it." perfect, we call that Root Cause Analysis" a recommendation that I have is ship a PC to the Wearhouse without anyone knowing and seeing what problems a customer might see when they first open the box.
They could have an A3 template on a permanent whiteboard on the wall in the meeting room or at the workshop, so that all employees get engaged. It's a decent way for a company to take steps towards Lean manufacturing philosophy.
as a business analyst with 20 years experience I can say that you hit the nail right on the head. Observing the process will also help, and checking as many units as feasible to see if this is a process problem where every PC assembler is doing it or there's just one person who is responsible for the issues and needs taking off the line for refresher training. A sample size of 1 can tell you there's a problem but not what that problem is.
Such a huge W for the team to listen to GN critiques and looking to fix the issues found.
Been a year since Linus's review and they still fucked up the assembly.
the build itself is really good, but like Steve said attenion to detail is key. your front fan cover can use very slight adjustments with size to help with fitment. one of the few pre-builds that actually is a solid build.
I personally have started using loctite on everything after building firearms. If you use the blue loctite you can easily take it apart later but they won't come out on their own from vibrations. Ppl saying consistent torque but when you're fitting parts you'll find the first screws will not be as tight as the part finds it home so unless you go back and torque the same screws multiple times that won't help
No joke if someone asked me advise on a prebuilt. I’d def recommend one. The support and them being a passionate group wanting to get it right being the biggest selling points
Linus has one of your PCs in his annual Secret Shopper - tech support and hardware review - segment as well. He also had nice words to say about it. You should be proud of what your company is doing. Keep it up!
I like Linus. I hope they slow down so they can actually improve what they are doing instead of trying to I guess.. cram through reviews and such.
@@ChaoticNeutralMattthey already have
@@firestar4430indeed they did. The quality and vibe bump after the drama was noticeable.
@@milkgxng Very well reasoned and informative opinion, thanks for your input.
Yeah, "Overall Pretty Good" is very high praise from GN. What is even more impressive is your response. Kudos and I WOULD recommend your systems for consideration over many others.
@20:50 I would hope someone mentioned it already, but FYI, all screws come with the CASE not the Motherboard. So if you elect to go with a different case to possibly resolve the air intake issue mentioned, you would get different screws. From my personal perspective, in MOST situations, I have not really seen a big difference in screw quality. That being said most of my builds are using either Corsair or Thermaltake cases. Hope this helps.
A "pretty good" from Steve at GN is high, high praise compared to most tech reviewers. His word carries a lot more technical weight than a Linus.
Throwing my 2 cents in, having been a mechanics apprentice at one point: all screws fitting well is highly dependent on technique. If you screw them in a certain order/way (do one, then do its opposite, then the rest, and recheck at the end) it's almost impossible for any to be loose. Best wishes to asmon, otk and starforge!
Edit: microtaping screws helps for shipping, limiting vibration in transit (the type of tape that's on the inside, between the screw and its hole Kappa)
Decent build man. I've been doing this since the mid to late 80's. You guys are doing great! Learning and continuing to do better. Cable management is well done! 8 out of 10 for this build. Bravo!
25:14 yes it could damage the m.2, that plastic will thermally insulate the drive which could potentially cause it to overheat, and you don't wanna overheat a harddrive like an m.2
I never buy prebuilds as I just put them together myself, but I really love this honest and open breakdown of your choices. There's so many shitty SI's, I'm happy to see starforge take steps to become the best one.
i used to build them but u dont save any money so i dont bother anymore
@@mysticalbeing8943 I have no clue what you're talking about. As mentioned in the GN review, this build is about $400-500 in surcharge.
I work in aviation and after every torque step we have a QC guy verify that all the screws have been tightened and it's DIRECTLY signed for for accountability reasons. I don't know if y'all do this but you may have to have a stepped out process for the build process. Real quick and easy fix honestly. Like you've probably noticed in the recent news that Alaskan plane that had the plug door come off in mid flight, who ever signed off that step is going to catch a huge amount of heat for that. Also they do make manual clicking torquing screw drivers. I personally have one but in aviation I CANNOT legally use it because everything has to be calibrated every 6 months which is also something you may have to look into after so many uses. I hope this little bit of insight helps you out if you do somehow read this comment.
'i Work in aviation' if only boeing took that as seriously as you do lol.
@@Leon78536 I don't know what's funny about being serious. I mean you saw what happened with Alaskan airline. They had undocumented maintenance and that plug door came right off.
@@banzan0 the fact that apparently working in aviation doesn't necessarily mean you take security serious.
@@Leon78536 I agree to an extent but it's one way of many to hold employees accountable for the work they do, the service(s) and product(s) provided by the company they work for. Nothing is perfect but having something in place is better than nothing at all.
@@Leon78536what do you mean by that? Security? Regarding quality control?
I watched the original video when it first dropped, and I was seriously impressed with where your company is at. Steve is famously unforgiving in his reviews, and while he pointed out areas needing more attention, this is the best review of a pre-built I can remember from GN.
I personally would like to see what a process change in your build area. I think the screw torque issue is a matter of tooling and attention, and the SSD thermal pad is entirely a matter of attention to detail.
I would also like to see a higher quality of fan and a more free-flowing front intake on your case. Those details aren't up to the same standard as the rest of the component selection and workmanship in the system.
I really, really want to see Starforge hit the mark. You clearly have the passion, and you clearly have capable people. You also have an attitude towards customer service that makes me want to spend money with you, even though I can and do build my own systems. Take those criticisms on-board, and Starforge could be building 10 out of 10 systems.
14:00 about the screws not being tight.. the issue is the order in which the screws are screwed in. if u know how to tighten a wheel on a car its the same principle here. either find the best order by trial and error or double check the screws
Congrats! Having worked as a manufacturing and process engineer, just a teeny tiny bit of threadlocker is enough for screws to be set in place. Having torque screwdrivers will help assembly too, and having a checklist/control plan for each phase of assembly will hopefully prevent issues like the one with the SSD thermal pad.
Giving production staff threadlocker is a dangerous act. /s
Bro that was a GLOWING review for Steve. you should reach out to Steve for Tips.
it sounds like he already went to visit their factory so they might have already talked to asmons staff without him knowing
Congrats on the businesses going well. You are a gifted dude. I appreciate your ideology and views on subjects.
14:24 look at laptop screws.. the systems are designed to be transported and nudged about so the screws all have that blue style glue on them to help stop them getting loose during transportation.. that’s how I’d approach this..
Steve and Asmon collab. What a start to the year 🫡