I've been breaking my engines in like this for years now. I don't have the "Competition Heat" engine heater, but I use thick tin foil wrapped around the head, and a 1500 watt heat gun with 2 heat settings. It's sort of a juggle between holding the radio wide open, handling the heat gun, and the temp guage, but I'm used to it. For me, this method has produced nothing short of reliable, long lasting, and easy to tune engines. After 5-7 tankfulls of doing this, my engines are rid of the "pinch" and have great compression. Like was mentioned in the video, key break in points are keeping the engine up to temp, and I firmly believe all the extra oil going through the motor does help to flush out the unavoidable metal trash that comes with breaking in every engine. Just make surw you've richened the needle enough to keep the RPMs in check, especially near the end of the tank, because it WILL lean out some and the RPMs will increase. Great video! I highly recommend trying this method when you become more familiar with the nitro hobby.
@@mattphilip4595ive done this break in technique on two engines, one LRP and a Picco. Make sure you pre heat the engine and keep the thing hot, I just kept my hair dryer on it at all times. There obviously will be additional stress on the rod but the heat helps to keep it in check. I highly recommend this technique
This is definitely the fastest and most effective break in there is. It works very good and the seal you get in the pinch zone is really really good. I’m gonna use this on an engine that I repinched pretty tight to get the mechanical pinch out as fast possible
I had just used this method to break a new novarossi keep-off 4 port. I have tried multiple methods to run in the engine, and I believe this type of break in is giving the engine exactly what it needs to remove the mechanical pinch. As much lubrication as possible while maintaining the optimal temperature. Other methods can be difficult to maintain that 200 to 230 degree range, since it always has air moving around the engine cooling it off. In order to keep these temps high while running the engine in on the ground, you would lean it out to get your temps up. Leaning it out is reducing lubrication, which we don't want to do, we want as much lube as possible. So after I ran 7 tanks with this method, I pulled the head off to discover the sleeve has a good amount of polished surface that has matted with the piston. I was very pleased with the results. Not only has this been the simplest break in I have done, it also consumed the least amount of time. Time will tell how great this method actually is, I'm hoping to get at least 8 gallons on this engine. I will definitely recommend this method to anybody who would ask how I run my engines it. This man should be given an award for bringing this to peoples attention. Thanks a lot for the vid, I think it is the best way to break in a new nitro engine.
Id like to see 2 identical motors, pre-break in disassembled and inspected. Use this method vs the 10 tank method like the top pros demonstrate. Once both engines are broken in, taken back apart for inspection. I raced two stroke motorcycles, Dave Ellis of ERE always preheated our enigines on first fire, doubled the oil in the gas and told us to do 15 minutes of race speeds before shutting off the engine or idling. I did notice my rings and piston lasted twice as long before needing replaced due to compression loss.
Michael Drum I would like to do this but lack the proper measuring equipment. What I would really like to do is submerge the engines in a heated oil bath and rotate the crank until the wear pattern develops on the sleeve. I heard someone was doing this but haven't looked it up.
mrwassman how about cryogenic treatments ? I've got two motors I'm doing this with. One will be the control, other brought to -350 for 12 hrs in a vapor bath. I'm dealing with 10f weather as of now, so I can't keep a preheated motor at 200f, Temps keep dropping too fast.
Michael Drum Interesting. Which components do you expect to respond to the treatment? Have you tried cutting the cooling head down? The airplane engines have much smaller heads for similar reasons.
Level Earth The method only works well if you can keep the engine warm enough. I'm pumping 1200 watts of heat into the engine. Another contributing factor is that we always preheat. I'll agree that the engine MAY only last 2-3 gallons when broken-in cold at WOT IF it's an 1/8 scale on road engine; but the guy who I saw do this got far more gallons out of his off road engines (he also replaced the connecting rod after break-in). I've also tried using high oil content, low nitro content airplane fuel and couldn't really tell a difference. For some reason I prefer running whatever blend I race on. You must be doing this differently than me. What type of engine did you break-in with this method? I don't even replace the original glow plug for 2-3 gallons and I changed the connecting rod out around 10 gallons just to be safe (I have bad experience with the fatigue life of aluminum). Shit, the dam silicone ramp rotted out of the crank of our world's OS before the piston and sleeve went out. I don't know about you, but I'm reluctant to take tips from pros who get motors thrown at them for free😐. Just because they drive well doesn't mean they know everything about the hobby. I use this method because it works well and produces consistent running engines. I don't expect anyone to be able to perform this method as well as me but I was getting tired of people asking why our motors always worked and if I could help them with theirs. I don't mind puzzling non-believers with my fleet of bitchen motors; especially the wanna be pros who are always pinching their motors and flaming out in main events. 😀
mrwassman I just did a Team engine using your wot method. Ran 2 liters through it before it seemed to loosen up. Used 1 liter of VP 30% nitro 11% oil, designed for road racing. Then went to what I'll use normally, 30% nitro 9.25% VP pro race blend. Kept the Temps above 210 with a heat gun and engine wrap. Now I'm tuning it, getting it dialed in. I've taken the engine apart, the piston is chocolate colored on top, then about 7-9mm down before it gets clean. Not even race tuned this thing rips !! I've got a 2nd motor I'm cryogenic treating the sleeve, piston and conrod. That too will be broken in with wot, only time will tell how things worked out.
+Allan McHenry (I'm not sure why I can't directly reply to your comment) Target RPM seems to be right where the clutch starts to engage. I don't know what RPM it is but it is similar to a high idle. The object is to break in the motor as rich as possible while keeping it at operating temperature so you have the most oil available. For a little while I ran a 10% airplane fuel with like ~18% oil for break-in but it didn't make much of a difference. As others have said, they get a fairly large polished ring on the sleeve which is the piston sealing area. This area is also where the piston and sleeve transfer heat between each other and I have a theory that it helps regulate the temperature of the motor, making it more consistent. Go ahead and do the tanks back-to-back; I'm not the biggest believer in heat cycling.
+mrwassman Great video! You said you're not a big believer in heat cycling, so we could do all 6 tanks of bench break in back to back, no rest? I would assume after the 6th tank, that could in theory be a heat cycle period. Then, after ample cooling time, use a heat gun, drive on the road for a few more tanks, slowly leaning out the top end needle with a sock on it (To maintain a decent temp.). Once I get to a near perfect tune after 3 tanks (Back to back), heat cycle a second time. Then for the 4th tank warm it up with a heat gun, run it without a sock and see if your in the 210-230ish ball park with good power. Then, the 11th tank or so, can be on the track for final tuning. Does this sound like a decent plan?
It's temp and proper oil content during break in. I have never never run in a engine like you just did. I do it the other way but I keep my engine temp up. Every engine I have owned (mostly ofna hyper .21s and p3-28) have all had atleast 10 to 12 gallons thru them including racing every weekend before I even change a connecting rod. It the high spped break in works for you . Keep doing it.
I've broken-in a couple engines in a similar way, this technique (pre-heat/cooling fin block off/very rich needle setting) produces the longest lasting taper bore engines I've seen (ABC TYPE). I'd only add one step: always return the piston to BDC in between engine runs (cool down phase).
Very interesting technique! A lot of good methods out there and this one seems to make sense. It looks like a pain to perform but what I've noticed is that just about any of these small nitro engines running at a correct setting for break in (very wet oily break in) are very difficult to keep going. Great job! Thanks for sharing this!
makes a lot of sence, Im in SB to off Turnpike. Im going to be breaking in a .12 Picco in a Nuova Faor SF701 soon, this process is going to be alittle harder, maybe I can hang the bike up by the front wheel. will see how goes, again thanks for the proper info
"I didn't get good at nitro til like 6 years ago. Sorta messed up stuff a lot" That is the definition of the nitro hobby. ;-) Great video, Spencer! Very informative. Are you still active now? If so, more videos please!
Hey nerd I heard you been looking for me..... sorry I was practicing with my buggy, yea it’s running a modded trx pro 15. This engine makes me hot; YOU make me tick 😘😘😘😘😘😘
So I can't get a heat gun right now but I did get a buggy and I didn't know about the heat Imran it the first day I got it like a day ago should I wait until I get one to run it again
so do you need the heat? i saw on your blog you dont have it listed on the required items. This looks very interesting and id love to try it out but i dont have the heat. I have used my heat gun for breaking in before would that be enough? thans
Great vid I have a LRP ZR32spec2 to brake in I like the theory lots of oil and the sleeve expanded etc sounds like a win win for ease on the components ;O)
Two questions if you will, kind sir: 1) Which.21 engines are your current favorites (stock or modded)? 2) In your expert opinion, would a poor break-in cause decreased power, decreased lifespan, or both? In other words, has anyone been able to explicitly matrix a poor-break in with engine performance and/or longevity. Thanks again...I think I might try this method on my next engine. I'm looking at that Samurai...I don't currently have a 3-port.
1) I'm not too up to date on all the engines, but the OS race engines have been rock solid for me. But I wouldn't be surprised if my next engine is one I am always impressed with at the track: the Werks engines; they seem unbeatable for the price. One thing to look out for: It doesn't matter what brand the engine is, or how much it cost, take the engine apart and inspect for metal shavings before you break it in. ezrc.blogspot.com/p/engines.html 2) I'll try to answer this the best I can. Decreased power it a hard one to prove because you can just lean it out. What I have noticed is that engines that were properly broke-in will run at a lower temperature while producing the same power. Think of it this way: An engine with a lot of "pinch" will have to be run at a higher temperature for the parts to expand enough to produce the same power and reach the same peak RPM as the properly broke-in engine. Here is some simplified VooDoo math (The → indicates conversion of energy): First you have your source of energy: Energy of Fuel → Mechanical Power + Heat of Combustion + Sound Energy Mechanical Power gets robbed by friction: Friction Losses = Piston/Sleeve + Pumping Losses + Crankcase Bearings + Fluid damping between crank and crankcase + Connecting Rod Bushings So your total power output is pretty much: Power Output @ Crank = Mechanical Power - Friction Losses The lifespan of the engine is even harder to prove. It's all about keeping those tight tolerances tight. Poor air filter/oil quality, over revving, cold starts, tuning, and air leaks all contribute to lifespan. Engines that retain the mechanical pinch stretch out the BOTTOM of the connecting rods. Well, how does this happen? If there is an explosion in the cylinder and the piston pushes the connecting rod down, wouldn't you expect the connecting rod to bend somewhere in the middle? The answer, and maybe I should make a video about this, must come from when the crankshaft is trying to pull the piston out of the pinched part of the sleeve... which really only occurs during cold starts on an engine with too much pinch.
mrwassman Good stuff, man. This helps. I'm a computer software guy, so mechanical engineering is foreign to me...but you do a great job or articulating this information. Regarding Werks...I'm glad to hear you say that. I have the B5 and B6, and they are without doubt the best 'bang-for the buck' stock engine that I've ever seen. I personally like the B6 better for the sole purpose I enjoy a linear powerband. Pair that up with a 2058....that's smooth, man. Real smooth. Of course the B5 can rock-and-roll too. So it's a matter of preference. Snappy or smooth. I might get a B2 just as a 'parking lot' engine....those look like a lot of fun. I wish they'd come out with a .25 engine. Anyway, thanks again for the response.
mrwassman By the way, I'd love to see you do more nitro videos. Do you plan on it? Additionally, if you ever want to talk nitro rc, we just started a new forum www.nitrorcnerds.com....it;s just getting started so member ship is small, but there are a lot of nitro heads on it. Thanks
How much voltage were u using for the heat? I use a car batt and it sees 425f at times..I never had to use a heat gun..after a half hour the head is at 260 and sides of block r 185f.. I just cycle the heat to maintain
Great vid, I'm new to nitro cars, but not nitro (helis). I'm sold on this method and will use it for my first engine. Still a little confused on target RPMs? Is the object to run as rich as possible on WOT? What do you think about doing consecutive tanks to speed up the process? Thanks for the informative video!
if you want to test your theory get two new selves and pistons do one this way and the other running normal carb settings but with instead of 8-9% oil run 15%
i know you said it´s not a begginers video but, if it´s not too much to ask logistics involved, would you please do another video showing wheels on the pevement, sometimes it´s hard to tell without seeing it on the ground...I´ve seen a ton of videos and to me, you seem to explain the fine tunning process a little better than others i´ve seen...did you graduate?
+Marek Sumguy in a nutshell you want to run the motor rich to break in to see that everything is properly lubed... but as a result it cools the engine, sooo he heats the engine and gets the results that is good for the engine....
+Lanchoooo Im not convinced. He also says that you need to take the pinch out of the sleeve. Does he mean no pinch when its cold?... or no pinch when its actually running at full temp?
+Marek Sumguy The pinch has to be there. its all about a "smooth pinch" (which is not the case from the factory) and one that is as near concentric as possible. also the excess fuel brings oil that washes away metal particulate among other things
How long do these engines last that are broken in this way? Some people say this is the quickest break in method, but it kills the longevity of the motor to where they only last 2-3 gallons. The criticism is that there's too much oil in the cylinder which increases compression and puts stress on the bearings, plus a lot of added fluid friction. Just curious, I'm going to breaking in .21 as soon as it warms up outside.
What you have heard is probably correct but they probably weren't keeping the engine above 200°F. Seriously, without the heaters, the engines would go 2-4 gallons and start flaming out... mid air. It was really frustrating.
Trying to master this technique which I really like. While holding the heatgun and transmitter, are you holding the TX at full throttle once the car is started then adjusting the rpms via the needles? Is this correct?
How many gallons are you getting out of a piston and sleeve with this technique? i am intrigued. I got 15 gallons on mt traxxas 2.5 on their technique.
James West That's really good life from a Traxxas engine. Their break-in is pretty well thought out. It's simple and they keep the motor warm using the body, right? The other half of engine life is the tuning. How did your engine end up failing? I've got 15 gallons thru my engine right now and I'm still waiting to use the engine I broke-in in this video to replace it.
My engine did not fail prematurely, it wore out to the point when it warmed up it would no stay running. Your break in technique is brilliant. The science behind it is perfect thinking. I also use extra castor oil in my fuel. I run on the rich side of peak.
James West Thanks man, just want people's engines to last as long as possible. I learned most of this process from a James Weston. He replaced the connecting rod right after break-in because he didn't heat the engines up.
hello ran into ur video while trying to learn about break in process, thinking about buying an RC buggy, forgive my ignorance but could overheating of the nitro tank" while performing this task cause it to ignite? thank you, and yes I noticed this is for advanced people
Same process for each tank, even the first. If you take the glow plug out after each tank and turn the motor over, you will notice the harsh pinch at TDC will go away but the engine will still be really hard to turn over with the glow plug in because the piston is seating into the sleeve creating an air tight seal. The harsh pinch should go away after ~6-10 tanks and then you will know it is ready to rip.
It really creates a good polish at the top of the cylinder. I tested out the process on a few motors using 10% nitro/18% non-synthetic oil airplane fuel and it didn't seem to make a difference.
+mrwassman Bones break in fuel leaves a beautiful polished area at the top of the sleeve. I basically just idle a few tanks of it, then drop it on the ground for a few more at a rich setting. I'd highly recommend it
Sure. If you want to break stuff. Don't do this. It puts a HUGE load on all the internals as compression goes through the roof as the engine is almost hydrolocking. It's nuts.
This is my way to break in my engines, so i think i have a friend now for using this way of breaking in. I think i am the only one breaking in engines like this. Glad to say im not. 🤓
Yeah I've heard of hydro-locking, you should check out the video I uploaded of my friends Jeep breaking a connecting rod. I rocked auto shop in high school and graduated UTI. I also had to take fluid dynamics courses to become a mechanical engineer and half the calculations relied on the assumption that liquids were incompressible. I should point out though, that the connecting rods usually STRETCH out. You know when the piston gets stuck at TDC and you have to take a screwdriver to the flywheel and it makes that HORRIBLE screetching sound as the piston is forced down the sleeve? I think that is what causes the rod to stretch... just a hunch though. Thankfully, keeping the motors warm during break-in means that shit NEVER happens to me.
So is your conrod now shaped like a U? That is one surefire way of destryong wrist pins, cno rods, bearings, and of course the rod journal. Don't, really, just don't.
A little insight for you: We were buying fuel by the pallet and I had the budget to experiment with different break in processes. The mechanical pinch is pretty much gone so there is nothing to load the connecting rod in tension. You can run a dozen gallons thru this engine before seeing signs of wear on the connecting rod. The engines run so well we really didn't need to change glow plugs; in fact, if a glow plug fowled it was usually because of an air leak or contamination from dirt/debris. Think about it, the connecting rod is extremely strong when loaded in compression but only has a little loop of aluminum and babbit to keep it from STRETCHING in tension (i.e. the flywheel pulling the piston down from the pinched area). Your starter box is never going to be able to transfer enough power to bend the connecting rod and the inertia of the crank/flywheel doesn't seem to be able to either (I've never seen a bent rod in a nitro motor).
For sure you will run six tanks in a short amount of time! But why such a tedious process? My track dont have outlets! And how many times have you put your engine though hydrolock? Man i would really hate to do this process with a pullstart engine! BTW your brand new engine looks to have low compression when you turned it to BDC! .....................(8:13-8:17)........................🤔👌🏽🧗🏻♀️
So unnecessary and a waste of fuel. It's so impractical. Sorry, but I don't agree. Thanks for your opinion & and your methods of breaking in a nitro engine. Keeping it properly tuned & maintained is the key. Thanks for the video. We all have our methods and many years of experience of working on combustion type of engines, whether big or small. Don't be offended by my comment. It's only my opinion. Have a good one. By the way, have you done this method with just a pull start?
Pull start, rotostart, box start... All good. The fact it's heated only makes it easier. How is it a waste of fuel? If you believe in breaking motors in than you know it requires fuel either way 🤔.
@@mrwassman It's my opinion and yes, it is waste of fuel. I've been in the field longer than you are old. I have a lot of experience under my belt. Because you think that your method is right, doesn't mean that it is so. Show me a video with you doing this method with just a pull start and not a box or rotostart. Impress me.
A pull start engine is not used in racing applications normally. You can use this method with any type RC engine and works very well. If the engine is a pull start, basher or Ready to Run engine, there really is no need to spend hours on break in and fuel. For fast race engines, heat treating the engine and soaking ith with fuel this way helps maintain all the internal parts. You cannot compare you race or tune big block car engines to this model engines.
So the engineering student didn’t think to put a rubber band on the carb slide instead of working back handed with a radio and heat gun in one hand!?. I understand your philosophy though. All this 3 or tanks at idle is bullshit . You need to let the engine get really hot and then cold about 10 or 12 times at least . I’d say.
How much voltage were u using for the heat? I use a car batt and it sees 425f at times..I never had to use a heat gun..after a half hour the head is at 260 and sides of block r 185f.. I just cycle the heat to maintain
Woah! Video comments? On the engine, without it running, "The Heat" keeps the engine around 200F (160-260, we have two and it can be fairly random). With this break-in procedure, and the fact nitromethane/methanol have significant cooling properties during combustion, the engine runs too cool (as you can see). Our engines had some serious issues after as little as 3 gallons without the heat. They would randomly cut-out... mid-straight, mid-air, on the face of a jump! It was really frustrating.
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I've been breaking my engines in like this for years now. I don't have the "Competition Heat" engine heater, but I use thick tin foil wrapped around the head, and a 1500 watt heat gun with 2 heat settings. It's sort of a juggle between holding the radio wide open, handling the heat gun, and the temp guage, but I'm used to it. For me, this method has produced nothing short of reliable, long lasting, and easy to tune engines. After 5-7 tankfulls of doing this, my engines are rid of the "pinch" and have great compression. Like was mentioned in the video, key break in points are keeping the engine up to temp, and I firmly believe all the extra oil going through the motor does help to flush out the unavoidable metal trash that comes with breaking in every engine. Just make surw you've richened the needle enough to keep the RPMs in check, especially near the end of the tank, because it WILL lean out some and the RPMs will increase. Great video! I highly recommend trying this method when you become more familiar with the nitro hobby.
What about all that extra liquid putting extra pressure on the rod and crank shaft connections.
@@mattphilip4595ive done this break in technique on two engines, one LRP and a Picco. Make sure you pre heat the engine and keep the thing hot, I just kept my hair dryer on it at all times.
There obviously will be additional stress on the rod but the heat helps to keep it in check. I highly recommend this technique
Finally someone who knows wtf he is doing
This is definitely the fastest and most effective break in there is. It works very good and the seal you get in the pinch zone is really really good. I’m gonna use this on an engine that I repinched pretty tight to get the mechanical pinch out as fast possible
awesome dude, finally someone showing the long used technique all the top lvl pro's use to run an engine in quickly and perfectly.
I had just used this method to break a new novarossi keep-off 4 port. I have tried multiple methods to run in the engine, and I believe this type of break in is giving the engine exactly what it needs to remove the mechanical pinch. As much lubrication as possible while maintaining the optimal temperature.
Other methods can be difficult to maintain that 200 to 230 degree range, since it always has air moving around the engine cooling it off. In order to keep these temps high while running the engine in on the ground, you would lean it out to get your temps up. Leaning it out is reducing lubrication, which we don't want to do, we want as much lube as possible.
So after I ran 7 tanks with this method, I pulled the head off to discover the sleeve has a good amount of polished surface that has matted with the piston. I was very pleased with the results.
Not only has this been the simplest break in I have done, it also consumed the least amount of time. Time will tell how great this method actually is, I'm hoping to get at least 8 gallons on this engine. I will definitely recommend this method to anybody who would ask how I run my engines it.
This man should be given an award for bringing this to peoples attention. Thanks a lot for the vid, I think it is the best way to break in a new nitro engine.
I appreciate the reply and that polished area is a damn good sign.
Id like to see 2 identical motors, pre-break in disassembled and inspected. Use this method vs the 10 tank method like the top pros demonstrate. Once both engines are broken in, taken back apart for inspection.
I raced two stroke motorcycles, Dave Ellis of ERE always preheated our enigines on first fire, doubled the oil in the gas and told us to do 15 minutes of race speeds before shutting off the engine or idling. I did notice my rings and piston lasted twice as long before needing replaced due to compression loss.
Michael Drum I would like to do this but lack the proper measuring equipment. What I would really like to do is submerge the engines in a heated oil bath and rotate the crank until the wear pattern develops on the sleeve. I heard someone was doing this but haven't looked it up.
mrwassman how about cryogenic treatments ? I've got two motors I'm doing this with. One will be the control, other brought to -350 for 12 hrs in a vapor bath. I'm dealing with 10f weather as of now, so I can't keep a preheated motor at 200f, Temps keep dropping too fast.
Michael Drum Interesting. Which components do you expect to respond to the treatment? Have you tried cutting the cooling head down? The airplane engines have much smaller heads for similar reasons.
Level Earth
The method only works well if you can keep the engine warm enough. I'm pumping 1200 watts of heat into the engine. Another contributing factor is that we always preheat.
I'll agree that the engine MAY only last 2-3 gallons when broken-in cold at WOT IF it's an 1/8 scale on road engine; but the guy who I saw do this got far more gallons out of his off road engines (he also replaced the connecting rod after break-in).
I've also tried using high oil content, low nitro content airplane fuel and couldn't really tell a difference. For some reason I prefer running whatever blend I race on.
You must be doing this differently than me. What type of engine did you break-in with this method? I don't even replace the original glow plug for 2-3 gallons and I changed the connecting rod out around 10 gallons just to be safe (I have bad experience with the fatigue life of aluminum). Shit, the dam silicone ramp rotted out of the crank of our world's OS before the piston and sleeve went out.
I don't know about you, but I'm reluctant to take tips from pros who get motors thrown at them for free😐. Just because they drive well doesn't mean they know everything about the hobby. I use this method because it works well and produces consistent running engines. I don't expect anyone to be able to perform this method as well as me but I was getting tired of people asking why our motors always worked and if I could help them with theirs.
I don't mind puzzling non-believers with my fleet of bitchen motors; especially the wanna be pros who are always pinching their motors and flaming out in main events. 😀
mrwassman I just did a Team engine using your wot method. Ran 2 liters through it before it seemed to loosen up. Used 1 liter of VP 30% nitro 11% oil, designed for road racing. Then went to what I'll use normally, 30% nitro 9.25% VP pro race blend. Kept the Temps above 210 with a heat gun and engine wrap. Now I'm tuning it, getting it dialed in. I've taken the engine apart, the piston is chocolate colored on top, then about 7-9mm down before it gets clean. Not even race tuned this thing rips !! I've got a 2nd motor I'm cryogenic treating the sleeve, piston and conrod. That too will be broken in with wot, only time will tell how things worked out.
+Allan McHenry (I'm not sure why I can't directly reply to your comment)
Target RPM seems to be right where the clutch starts to engage. I don't know what RPM it is but it is similar to a high idle.
The object is to break in the motor as rich as possible while keeping it at operating temperature so you have the most oil available. For a little while I ran a 10% airplane fuel with like ~18% oil for break-in but it didn't make much of a difference. As others have said, they get a fairly large polished ring on the sleeve which is the piston sealing area. This area is also where the piston and sleeve transfer heat between each other and I have a theory that it helps regulate the temperature of the motor, making it more consistent.
Go ahead and do the tanks back-to-back; I'm not the biggest believer in heat cycling.
+mrwassman Great video! You said you're not a big believer in heat cycling, so we could do all 6 tanks of bench break in back to back, no rest? I would assume after the 6th tank, that could in theory be a heat cycle period. Then, after ample cooling time, use a heat gun, drive on the road for a few more tanks, slowly leaning out the top end needle with a sock on it (To maintain a decent temp.). Once I get to a near perfect tune after 3 tanks (Back to back), heat cycle a second time. Then for the 4th tank warm it up with a heat gun, run it without a sock and see if your in the 210-230ish ball park with good power. Then, the 11th tank or so, can be on the track for final tuning. Does this sound like a decent plan?
+Brizzad sorry I never responded. As long as you keep it warm, it should be fine. What did you end up doing?
It's temp and proper oil content during break in. I have never never run in a engine like you just did. I do it the other way but I keep my engine temp up. Every engine I have owned (mostly ofna hyper .21s and p3-28) have all had atleast 10 to 12 gallons thru them including racing every weekend before I even change a connecting rod. It the high spped break in works for you
. Keep doing it.
This method is for race engines. I break in my engines this way.
I've broken-in a couple engines in a similar way, this technique (pre-heat/cooling fin block off/very rich needle setting) produces the longest lasting taper bore engines I've seen (ABC TYPE). I'd only add one step: always return the piston to BDC in between engine runs (cool down phase).
+highnitro707 The pistons are ceramic aren't they?.... ceramic has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than the metal bore and cylinder.
+Marek Sumguy most nitro engines are aluminum piston with chrome plated brass sleeve (ABC type)
highnitro707 I always return them to BDC as well.
Oh did I not mention that? Most definitely.
Very interesting technique! A lot of good methods out there and this one seems to make sense. It looks like a pain to perform but what I've noticed is that just about any of these small nitro engines running at a correct setting for break in (very wet oily break in) are very difficult to keep going. Great job! Thanks for sharing this!
You should have more views, that is probably the gentlest engine break in you could ever do for sure.
Dude awesome awesome awesome. i am strictly a nitro guy have been and always will be thanks for the vid. Its people like you that keep nitro alive.
makes a lot of sence, Im in SB to off Turnpike.
Im going to be breaking in a .12 Picco in a Nuova Faor SF701 soon, this process is going to be alittle harder, maybe I can hang the bike up by the front wheel. will see how goes, again thanks for the proper info
Let me know if you need a hand. We can make a custom stand for it if you want. Shoot me an email if you want, it's my youtube username @gmail.com
"I didn't get good at nitro til like 6 years ago. Sorta messed up stuff a lot" That is the definition of the nitro hobby. ;-) Great video, Spencer! Very informative. Are you still active now? If so, more videos please!
Thanks man. I am done with school in a few weeks and will be making more videos.
Hey nerd I heard you been looking for me..... sorry I was practicing with my buggy, yea it’s running a modded trx pro 15. This engine makes me hot; YOU make me tick 😘😘😘😘😘😘
So I can't get a heat gun right now but I did get a buggy and I didn't know about the heat Imran it the first day I got it like a day ago should I wait until I get one to run it again
so do you need the heat? i saw on your blog you dont have it listed on the required items. This looks very interesting and id love to try it out but i dont have the heat. I have used my heat gun for breaking in before would that be enough? thans
man i miss racing with Jake and the guys....Team Momentum was fun
Dude, I know. I wish Malkin would get back into it. We are still using tires that he included with the Kyosho MP9's he sold us.
Thanks for the video really a great piece. Best breakin vid on the webs!!
Great vid I have a LRP ZR32spec2 to brake in I like the theory lots of oil and the sleeve expanded etc sounds like a win win for ease on the components ;O)
Two questions if you will, kind sir: 1) Which.21 engines are your current favorites (stock or modded)? 2) In your expert opinion, would a poor break-in cause decreased power, decreased lifespan, or both? In other words, has anyone been able to explicitly matrix a poor-break in with engine performance and/or longevity. Thanks again...I think I might try this method on my next engine. I'm looking at that Samurai...I don't currently have a 3-port.
1) I'm not too up to date on all the engines, but the OS race engines have been rock solid for me. But I wouldn't be surprised if my next engine is one I am always impressed with at the track: the Werks engines; they seem unbeatable for the price.
One thing to look out for: It doesn't matter what brand the engine is, or how much it cost, take the engine apart and inspect for metal shavings before you break it in. ezrc.blogspot.com/p/engines.html
2) I'll try to answer this the best I can. Decreased power it a hard one to prove because you can just lean it out. What I have noticed is that engines that were properly broke-in will run at a lower temperature while producing the same power. Think of it this way: An engine with a lot of "pinch" will have to be run at a higher temperature for the parts to expand enough to produce the same power and reach the same peak RPM as the properly broke-in engine. Here is some simplified VooDoo math (The → indicates conversion of energy):
First you have your source of energy:
Energy of Fuel → Mechanical Power + Heat of Combustion + Sound Energy
Mechanical Power gets robbed by friction:
Friction Losses = Piston/Sleeve + Pumping Losses + Crankcase Bearings + Fluid damping between crank and crankcase + Connecting Rod Bushings
So your total power output is pretty much:
Power Output @ Crank = Mechanical Power - Friction Losses
The lifespan of the engine is even harder to prove. It's all about keeping those tight tolerances tight. Poor air filter/oil quality, over revving, cold starts, tuning, and air leaks all contribute to lifespan. Engines that retain the mechanical pinch stretch out the BOTTOM of the connecting rods. Well, how does this happen? If there is an explosion in the cylinder and the piston pushes the connecting rod down, wouldn't you expect the connecting rod to bend somewhere in the middle? The answer, and maybe I should make a video about this, must come from when the crankshaft is trying to pull the piston out of the pinched part of the sleeve... which really only occurs during cold starts on an engine with too much pinch.
mrwassman Good stuff, man. This helps. I'm a computer software guy, so mechanical engineering is foreign to me...but you do a great job or articulating this information. Regarding Werks...I'm glad to hear you say that. I have the B5 and B6, and they are without doubt the best 'bang-for the buck' stock engine that I've ever seen. I personally like the B6 better for the sole purpose I enjoy a linear powerband. Pair that up with a 2058....that's smooth, man. Real smooth. Of course the B5 can rock-and-roll too. So it's a matter of preference. Snappy or smooth. I might get a B2 just as a 'parking lot' engine....those look like a lot of fun. I wish they'd come out with a .25 engine. Anyway, thanks again for the response.
mrwassman By the way, I'd love to see you do more nitro videos. Do you plan on it? Additionally, if you ever want to talk nitro rc, we just started a new forum www.nitrorcnerds.com....it;s just getting started so member ship is small, but there are a lot of nitro heads on it. Thanks
Nitro RCNerds More videos as soon as I get my business and personal life together!
How much voltage were u using for the heat? I use a car batt and it sees 425f at times..I never had to use a heat gun..after a half hour the head is at 260 and sides of block r 185f.. I just cycle the heat to maintain
Great vid, I'm new to nitro cars, but not nitro (helis). I'm sold on this method and will use it for my first engine. Still a little confused on target RPMs? Is the object to run as rich as possible on WOT? What do you think about doing consecutive tanks to speed up the process? Thanks for the informative video!
What's good Spencer? Still rocking those thangs. :-)
It's been a while. Moved away from my hometown last year and need to return to the hobby soon.
Nowadays ?
is that heat wrapper home-made, if so, maybe you could make a vid show us how to make one?
It's called "the heat".
if you want to test your theory get two new selves and pistons do one this way and the other running normal carb settings but with instead of 8-9% oil run 15%
i know you said it´s not a begginers video but, if it´s not too much to ask logistics involved, would you please do another video showing wheels on the pevement, sometimes it´s hard to tell without seeing it on the ground...I´ve seen a ton of videos and to me, you seem to explain the fine tunning process a little better than others i´ve seen...did you graduate?
Yes, in 2014. Now I'm too busy to have fun with R/C :\
Can you explain in greater detail why this method is better than conventional break in method?
+Marek Sumguy in a nutshell you want to run the motor rich to break in to see that everything is properly lubed... but as a result it cools the engine, sooo he heats the engine and gets the results that is good for the engine....
+Lanchoooo Too much lube, no?
break in you want an excess of lube... you want it running out the muffler... which cools the engine thus heating it...
+Lanchoooo Im not convinced. He also says that you need to take the pinch out of the sleeve. Does he mean no pinch when its cold?... or no pinch when its actually running at full temp?
+Marek Sumguy The pinch has to be there. its all about a "smooth pinch" (which is not the case from the factory) and one that is as near concentric as possible. also the excess fuel brings oil that washes away metal particulate among other things
So you just do this for 4-6 tanks plz help
How long do these engines last that are broken in this way? Some people say this is the quickest break in method, but it kills the longevity of the motor to where they only last 2-3 gallons. The criticism is that there's too much oil in the cylinder which increases compression and puts stress on the bearings, plus a lot of added fluid friction. Just curious, I'm going to breaking in .21 as soon as it warms up outside.
What you have heard is probably correct but they probably weren't keeping the engine above 200°F. Seriously, without the heaters, the engines would go 2-4 gallons and start flaming out... mid air. It was really frustrating.
Trying to master this technique which I really like. While holding the heatgun and transmitter, are you holding the TX at full throttle once the car is started then adjusting the rpms via the needles? Is this correct?
That is correct.
mrwassman Thank you sir! Wish you'd post more tech tips, tricks, and information. You seem to have a lot to offer! Good day!
How many gallons are you getting out of a piston and sleeve with this technique? i am intrigued. I got 15 gallons on mt traxxas 2.5 on their technique.
James West That's really good life from a Traxxas engine. Their break-in is pretty well thought out. It's simple and they keep the motor warm using the body, right? The other half of engine life is the tuning. How did your engine end up failing? I've got 15 gallons thru my engine right now and I'm still waiting to use the engine I broke-in in this video to replace it.
My engine did not fail prematurely, it wore out to the point when it warmed up it would no stay running. Your break in technique is brilliant. The science behind it is perfect thinking. I also use extra castor oil in my fuel. I run on the rich side of peak.
James West Thanks man, just want people's engines to last as long as possible. I learned most of this process from a James Weston. He replaced the connecting rod right after break-in because he didn't heat the engines up.
Hay can I break in my engine without running it on the group but just on stand
Yes? This process is almost all done on the stand.
hello ran into ur video while trying to learn about break in process, thinking about buying an RC buggy, forgive my ignorance but could overheating of the nitro tank" while performing this task cause it to ignite?
thank you, and yes I noticed this is for advanced people
It is pretty stable unless you introduce direct flames to it
what engine is that
Which tank is this? And what would I do for the first second and third tank?
Same process for each tank, even the first.
If you take the glow plug out after each tank and turn the motor over, you will notice the harsh pinch at TDC will go away but the engine will still be really hard to turn over with the glow plug in because the piston is seating into the sleeve creating an air tight seal. The harsh pinch should go away after ~6-10 tanks and then you will know it is ready to rip.
hi you have the same buggy as me
Do you think the motor has enough friction to actually break in with that much oil?
It really creates a good polish at the top of the cylinder. I tested out the process on a few motors using 10% nitro/18% non-synthetic oil airplane fuel and it didn't seem to make a difference.
+mrwassman
Bones break in fuel leaves a beautiful polished area at the top of the sleeve. I basically just idle a few tanks of it, then drop it on the ground for a few more at a rich setting. I'd highly recommend it
Can your break in methods apply to a rc plane engine of the abc type?
Sure. If you want to break stuff. Don't do this. It puts a HUGE load on all the internals as compression goes through the roof as the engine is almost hydrolocking. It's nuts.
@@AB-80X I break all my car engines in this way. It produces incredible, long lasting engines every time. I DO replace the rod right after break in.
i like this guy he knows his shit!
Are you first tank ? What do 2rd tank ?
This was the 3rd tank but the engine runs like this for all of them. You will get to a point where the flywheel is easier to turn (the pinch reduces).
Where can I buy a car like yours???
a corner store
he Spencer,top car.
This is my way to break in my engines, so i think i have a friend now for using this way of breaking in. I think i am the only one breaking in engines like this. Glad to say im not. 🤓
Your worried about stressing the con rod but overloading it with fuel did you ever hear of hydrolocking not maybe completely but in a sense you are .
Yeah I've heard of hydro-locking, you should check out the video I uploaded of my friends Jeep breaking a connecting rod. I rocked auto shop in high school and graduated UTI. I also had to take fluid dynamics courses to become a mechanical engineer and half the calculations relied on the assumption that liquids were incompressible.
I should point out though, that the connecting rods usually STRETCH out. You know when the piston gets stuck at TDC and you have to take a screwdriver to the flywheel and it makes that HORRIBLE screetching sound as the piston is forced down the sleeve? I think that is what causes the rod to stretch... just a hunch though. Thankfully, keeping the motors warm during break-in means that shit NEVER happens to me.
What tires are those slicks?
They are super worn out AKA Gridiron's
Interesting.
So is your conrod now shaped like a U? That is one surefire way of destryong wrist pins, cno rods, bearings, and of course the rod journal. Don't, really, just don't.
A little insight for you: We were buying fuel by the pallet and I had the budget to experiment with different break in processes. The mechanical pinch is pretty much gone so there is nothing to load the connecting rod in tension. You can run a dozen gallons thru this engine before seeing signs of wear on the connecting rod. The engines run so well we really didn't need to change glow plugs; in fact, if a glow plug fowled it was usually because of an air leak or contamination from dirt/debris.
Think about it, the connecting rod is extremely strong when loaded in compression but only has a little loop of aluminum and babbit to keep it from STRETCHING in tension (i.e. the flywheel pulling the piston down from the pinched area). Your starter box is never going to be able to transfer enough power to bend the connecting rod and the inertia of the crank/flywheel doesn't seem to be able to either (I've never seen a bent rod in a nitro motor).
i built a test stand and put a airplane prop on for cooling
great video
For sure you will run six tanks in a short amount of time! But why such a tedious process? My track dont have outlets! And how many times have you put your engine though hydrolock?
Man i would really hate to do this process with a pullstart engine!
BTW your brand new engine looks to have low compression when you turned it to BDC!
.....................(8:13-8:17)........................🤔👌🏽🧗🏻♀️
Buy that heater for the engine
00:46 holy fuck your throttle servo is fast! which one is it?
Futaba brushless servo (BLS451)
So unnecessary and a waste of fuel. It's so impractical. Sorry, but I don't agree. Thanks for your opinion & and your methods of breaking in a nitro engine. Keeping it properly tuned & maintained is the key. Thanks for the video. We all have our methods and many years of experience of working on combustion type of engines, whether big or small. Don't be offended by my comment. It's only my opinion. Have a good one. By the way, have you done this method with just a pull start?
Pull start, rotostart, box start... All good. The fact it's heated only makes it easier. How is it a waste of fuel? If you believe in breaking motors in than you know it requires fuel either way 🤔.
@@mrwassman It's my opinion and yes, it is waste of fuel. I've been in the field longer than you are old. I have a lot of experience under my belt. Because you think that your method is right, doesn't mean that it is so. Show me a video with you doing this method with just a pull start and not a box or rotostart. Impress me.
A pull start engine is not used in racing applications normally. You can use this method with any type RC engine and works very well. If the engine is a pull start, basher or Ready to Run engine, there really is no need to spend hours on break in and fuel. For fast race engines, heat treating the engine and soaking ith with fuel this way helps maintain all the internal parts. You cannot compare you race or tune big block car engines to this model engines.
Hey spencer contact me I’d like to ask you a question
Can I just use heat gun vs both? Ty
Rodney Akima should be able to
So the engineering student didn’t think to put a rubber band on the carb slide instead of working back handed with a radio and heat gun in one hand!?.
I understand your philosophy though. All this 3 or tanks at idle is bullshit . You need to let the engine get really hot and then cold about 10 or 12 times at least . I’d say.
👍👍👍👍👍👍🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔
much easier ways of doing this
ρε φιλε διαφωνω
+valantis christodoulou Μάλλον δεν ξέρει ελληνικά.
I do not agree with this break in procedure in any way just a stupid way to mess up your engine
how come bud?
How much voltage were u using for the heat? I use a car batt and it sees 425f at times..I never had to use a heat gun..after a half hour the head is at 260 and sides of block r 185f.. I just cycle the heat to maintain
Woah! Video comments?
On the engine, without it running, "The Heat" keeps the engine around 200F (160-260, we have two and it can be fairly random). With this break-in procedure, and the fact nitromethane/methanol have significant cooling properties during combustion, the engine runs too cool (as you can see).
Our engines had some serious issues after as little as 3 gallons without the heat. They would randomly cut-out... mid-straight, mid-air, on the face of a jump! It was really frustrating.