When Nitro Engines go BANG!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มี.ค. 2017
- Nitromethane is a powerful fuel and when you run it in an engine, even a tiny engine like you find in RC Planes, then there's a huge potential for stuff to break. Here's a little look through my box of engines that have gone bang and a postmortem to find out why they failed.
The engines I"m looking at today are:
- The Russian MDS 61 FIRE
- The Thunder Tiger GP61
- The Chinese SK90
All these engines were flown in the same airframe, an AT40 balsa trainer originally designed for a .40-sized engine (oops!). - กีฬา
Glow engines are creeping back because of the cost and difficulty of shipping LiPos. Plus, many who began on electric are giving glow a try, just for fun.
Example: Me and i love glow
No one else smirked a little when Bruce spoke about a bronze bush. No? Just me. Damn my immaturity!
Sir, you are clearly a hard-flying, high-revving nitro man ... your box of dead engines demonstrates this clearly. You are a fine example to all of us Older Aeromodellers and I salute you. Thanks for your fabulous channel.
@Paul Spomer nice mate! How reliable are they? I had a nitro car and the engine kept breaking.
Heh, it's definitely more interesting looking at blown nitro engines than burnt out electric motors. ;¬)
They smell better, too.
Have to agree with the rest, another great video! I've got to where I really look forward to your videos during the week. One of my highlights. You're hard work is appreciated and injoyed by many I know.
Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.
The direction you've been taking the xjet channel is really cool Bruce. I'm always keen for more glow stuff, since I don't get to play with it myself anymore thanks to lack of an appropriate place to fly the noisy things.
BTW, why do people call glow engines "nitro"? It's not like they run on it as a major part of the fuel most of the time, surely they should be called alcohol engines! Plenty of engines run fine without any nitro at all, yet people seem to still call them nitro!
Chris, there's nitro in the fuel, thus they're called nitro motors.
just installed nitro engine on my furios 200
+Corey Back in the 70's we never referred to them as anything other than a glow engine. Mostly Dad bought OS is possible back then, but I do remember him having a Super Tiger 60 or 61, I forget which, as well as an HP61. To be honest those two pretty much sat in their boxes, as he never finished the models he bought them for. He had a part built Dave Boddington Hurricane fuse sitting around the house for nearly ten years. Most of what we flew was 40 sized sport or sport/scale models,
Very interesting and informative. There is something so artistically eloquent about catastrophic failures. Thanks Bruce.
I find this very interesting! I like that you put clips of the engine blowing up
This should be on your main channel! This was great and informative. And it is a review after all... reviewed for 50 years! Not many of those around!
The video is perhaps a little short for the amount of time involved though... ;-P
cheers Bruce. You have inspired me to get my collection of stinky noisey nitros back out this summer! . thanks from South East England.
Would love to see more IC and pulse jet stuff Bruce! Sooooo much more soul than an electric motor!
I loved this. Looking at details post-mortem is very interesting! I have mostly electric and Nitro birds. I even have that Thunder Tiger GP 61.
I went through quite few MDS marine ones (difference is only water cooled head) on FSR-V nitro boats and never had a broken shaft, but all of them had two same problems:
1. Carb was constantly jumping out due it's crappy mounting system.
2. Conrod's bronze bushing wasn't pressed in tight enough. After a while it started to spin inside the conrod leaving crankpin without lubrication. And combined with high RPM from tuned pipe, conrod shot straight through engine block at the bottom.
In late 80' in Soviet Russia if you wanted to do RC, DIYing was THE only way, no other way, so after putting some work, mods and tuning into them engines, they were the best ever!
Never owned anything that uses those engines but always had lots of interest about them. Good video Sir.
Brings back so many good memories of model aircraft, OS engines, castor oil exhaust and cut fingers!
thanks for the video bruce, always enjoy stuff like this
loved it, takes me back a few years, would love to see more pulse jet stuff and glow engine stuff
Nice video bud , happy flying dude 🖒🖒🖒🖒
Marvelous, I recall them from the 70 80's. Really neat to see them work.
Very interesting video Bruce, keep em coming.
Hy..we still like to fly nitro as much as we can ;)Hello from Slovenia....
Very neat and informative. Have very little experience with glow. Mainly electric here.
I'd watch another one of these! Quite an interesting video!
Vibration played the biggest role in this break
That was a great video. I'd love to see another if you decide to do it.
The man knows his stuff. Great video.
Thanks Bruce, great video. It would seem by your video, that your throttle was an on and off switch, go hard or go home, or turn it off and land......Love it....Nothing like the smell of nitro first thing in the mornin.
Great video. I like to see stuff that broke, I have a whole hobby room full.
Great video! I have a collection of 4 strokes, I believe Thunder Tiger. They even made a 26 size, but I didn't get one of those. They are so tiny and intricate, and can idle very slow with a pop pop pop. Very cool engines. Ahh the good ole days!
Great vid, love to see another one.
I am interested in seeing more like this .
As I like the sounds of a nitro engine
Nice to see engines going pop 😀. I still have 4 nitro engines ( 2 MDS 58's 1 SC52 FS and a OS 25) but all converted to petrol with spark ignition which sorts out all the rough running issues on the MDS. Happy days 😊
Yes please! Seeing how things work and break is a great teaching point. Thanks Bruce! Have a good one. :-) -Jamie
this was quite fascinating
love the videos Bruce please do more like this
Bruce I can see you screaming in to the funnel " MORE POWER SCOTTY", ans Scotty saying, "Thats all she's got Captian, it just an ABC sleeve engine!". Balls to the wall all the time!
cool stuff! i remember my super tiger .46 and 60 motors and the occasional wack on the fingers when they started
Amazing and helpful video. Great. 👏
I started in nitro with an OS .40. Love the smell and sound of nitro. Makes me want to dig it out and get them going on an airframe
Fantastic video. I have never had a major engine failure.
Nitro isn't dead, it just smells that way. ;)
Great video - thanks. I learned something today - i really dont know much about engines. My planks and helis are all electric.
Excellent knowledge.
Yes Bruce! Please do more nitro "post mortem" examinations 👍
I can remember those days like it was yesterday. It so much better now
Back here in the UK in the mid fifties the lads flew compression only engines. The fuel came in tins and produced a wonderful smell. What was it? Nitro is a new one to me.
Love your channels.
They were called diesel engines although, of course, they didn't have injectors like real diesel engines do.
They have a contra piston with a compression screw in place of the glowplug. Fuel is roughly equal parts of castor oil, paraffin (kerosene) and 'ether' (diethyl ether). A couple of percent of Amyl Nitrate or Nitrite in the fuel makes these motors a little easier to start and set. The ether is what gives the fuel its wonderful smell and what lowers the ignition temperature of the fuel sufficiently so that just compression ignites it. As the engine warms up you back off the compression screw.
Nice to see no broken diesels .. these engines that failed may also have been made from dodgy materials .. I read McVicar's (?) story when his Packard Merlin blew up on his way to Reno races just post-war. The Mosquito's journals were square-cut unlike R-R engines which were radiused. Just wondering whether Maynard Hill might have succeeded in less attempts with his (2003) transatlantic flight of 'Spirit of Butts Farm' . was it no.6? A pity he didn't use a compression ignition engine instead of something with a glow plug that can fail to keep glowing after a few hours. Better mileage, too and will turn a bigger prop.. See Washington Post, etc for story. Still uncomfortable with all the techy/paraphenalia associated with electric motors. All you need to run a diesel is a can of fuel and very thick skin on your starting finger .. If someone would make a silencer that actually worked they may make a come back .. it's not rocket science.
ceptimus Why didn't they have injectors?
Injectors are complicated mechanisms involving high pressure pumps of some kind: it's probably still impossible to miniaturise a diesel injector down to the size of one of these engines - certainly it was impossible back in these engine's heyday. These 'model diesels' are more correctly called 'compression ignition' engines - they mix the fuel with air in a simple carburettor and the resulting mixture passes through the engine to the combustion chamber in exactly the same way as with a glow plug engine.
The engine only has three moving parts in normal operation, plus another three that only move when the operator is adjusting the compression or fuel mixture ratio.
ceptimus I was expecting these to be a Cummins or Detroit Diesel. A mini Commercial Knocker even. I think you can get fuel injection for model aircraft engines now.
I love nitro rc
Grew up with nitro in the 60's and 70's. Love it, more please. Special request, can I build a tricopter with nitro engines? My favorite plane was the Midwest Hots II, still have the plans for it, plan on building another when I retire!!! Love the videos Bruce...
sbodi4d no you couldn't build a tricopter in the traditional sense. Nitro engines have to slow throttle response. But you could do something that used variable pitch props like a heli and a single motor powering them with belts. Can't remember the name but a guy can out with a variable pitch quadcopter using a single electric motor powering all 4 rotors. Something like that could be adapted probably
Dig out some more stuff. I love seeing how and why motors blow up. Thank you. "I got a find out how tight motors wind" " I can't help it". hehe
G'day,
Yay Team !
Excellent topic Bruce, well done.
I have a Rotax 377 which stopped because it's Cooling-Fan ingested the Throttle-Cable, & winched it out of the Carburettor at 2:1 x Crankshaft-Speed...; sadly, it all occurred at 300 ft while turning Finals, motoring down the Glideslope at 40% power, and the resulting Stall-Spin killed the Pilot who'd failed to secure his Throttle-Cable to the Airframe...
Getting the Rotax going again is one of my many "one day..." projects.
Have a good one,
;-p
Ciao !
Thank you for keeping Nitro engines alive and flying them! :) Proper olschool technology. I loved the Castor oil part. All my own RC planes have been Nitro powered. I did use Methanol and Castor oil mixture, which I had to mix myself. It seems that more and more people are switching to electric motors in RC hobby.
I have used ASP and OS Nitro motors.
The plain bushed engine with the cracked crankcase is asking for a jubilee clip around the front bearing to hold it together... and then be run to destruction
Thank you for the video, your time,Knowledge.
Thank you, Xjet. I am school and still love my glow fuel motors more than the new gas engines. Your video gave all of us (glow fuel engine lovers)...some great schooling on these engines. :0)
You have forgotten more than I will ever know about RC stuff - I just want to comment that "nitro" seems to be the recent "designer" name for these engines, but glow is more appropriate because newbies get the idea that nitro is the source of power, when it is the source of ignition only. Nitro results in lower power, and actually cooler - please check me if I am wrong. In fact, I like to emphasize what the fuel actually is to those interested enough to ask about fuel engines - alcohol (well, methanol).
Your post morten was educational - thanks for all the time you put into sharing your knowledge.
Lastly, don't we all love to run equipment up to, and sometimes through, their performance limits? Yeah! I never cry when things go BANG! Soak up the experience of power going plasma-level and getting out of its constraints. Ok, maybe that's just me - ha...
I miss nitro motors had many over the years...enjoyed your vid
Awesome video. ✔
Thanks heaps for the info. 😎👍
I think you are point on.Great video.bring more.
great video, i love the nitro engines but struggled at first getting an irvine 30 to run properly but after years of using os and mds i went back to the irvine and tuned the screw to alter the fuel at tick over,and this was the cure for it all them years of thinking it was a pile of junk,ive also seen some bloke at a club fit a new engine i asked what was up with the other one,he said it dies when i he removed the glow starter,i told him the plugs go cold on the end and a new plug would fix it,do more stuff on the nitro :-)
G'day mate, enjoyed your video. Cheers
great video !
I run nitro and in my eyes it is not dead. Love the sound and the simplicity of the engines and the power and speed on instant demand. Great to see your box of mishaps but have you had this problem with any of the European engines or even American's like K&B? Show us more Bruce, very entertaining.
I use to fly a lot not sure really why i dont much any more, mainly because I am way to busy building and being pit mechanic for my son on his nitro cars and large scale gas rc cars and trucks, Depending on the motor and the part that broke many are definitely worth the time to rebuild and for not as much as most people think it costs, Another reason I dont fly at our rc flying club is due to the older folks, always complaining about there stuff broken wont start falling apart and so forth, Dont get me wrong i am not speaking ill of the older generation, I think they are a great asset to the flying clubs, just up here in Northern Canada i found that they are just set in there ways and stuck with still using motors and such from the 70,s and are not open to all the new innovations to new motors plane design new fuels etc; The radio control sport and industry has advanced so much whether you are into nitro or gas or planes or cars, The things you can buy and build are endless it all really depends on the amount of money you want to invest into such a great competitive sport , Thank you xjet for doing videos that you do,
Bear.
I did find this video interesting. Thank you
Phenomenal video! Well done!!! Nitro may be a dying breed do to brushless lipo, but us diehards will never let go simply because the glorious sound! 👌👌✌️
I don't know much about nitro engines. But I owned 2 Traxxas T-Maxx's and drove probably most of 10 other maxx's in races.
But I remember the life expectancy was 4 gallons of nitro. And I never made it beyond 3 gallons because of dirty carb issues or worn out carb. And those carbs at the time were like $35-$80 (edited). After replacing a few, I just decided to just get the better racing spec motor for like $180-$250. I remember my buddies were surprised of my t-maxx doing wheelies when it hit 2nd gear. And these are like the old days before the traxxas 1.3 motor was invented. Or 1.5? The 2.5 came out years later.... But the stock 1.1 or so motor ran like 30k rpm, I had a racing motor in my t-maxx that hit more than 40k rpm. And another motor hitting 48k.. You can really feel those extra rpm power in the high end as you ditch a stock t-maxx.
Thank ya Bruce, I remember the days with nitro, I had the OS engines, bought them from Ryders Hobby Shop in Flint Michigan,where I lived in my teen years. Yeah, they will go POP on ya after a bit.
Great info sir, see ya in the air.
Wayne.
A coffee chat and some nitro, life is good :P Matt
The only thing I remember fondly about my glow fuel and diesel ether days was how (With a few spare AA RX packs and a tin of fuel) you could stay out flying as long as you wanted (Rather than having to quit when you run out of charged Li-Po's)..... I'll pass on the fuss getting a cold IC engine to start, The greasy fur that would build up in all the airframes crevices, and the noise that would tell everyone for a mile's radius that you were out flying.
With the mainstream adoption of Li-Po batteries came a much more user friendly branch to the RC hobby.
How's the water?
Ryders! Small world. I grew up in that area. Do you remember Dean? Tower Hobbies as well.
Pa RC Hobby Videos
Wow really small world. My mother owned the grooming shop across the street. I miss a good hobby shop now
I still have few nitro's in my fleet. Nice to see something on nitro once in a while.
Howdy Bruce, I really enjoyed the insight. Maybe an idea for the next video would be the running in & tuning of the new engine? Knowing how rich to set it and so on.... Matt
Good video Bruce I love nitro engines I must have about 30 around here including a YS120nc still in the box nothing like the smell of nitro in the morning
my MVVS 49 (Green head) is still runing nice on my Flying machine, 18 000 rpm and still shows no sign of giving up!
Would you sell the piston and sleav and conetingrod, from the sk 90??? Lmk please and thank you
Got a similar box of F2D (CL Combat) Fora engines.
In my club, we even got a trophy cup full of dead F2D engines, collected over time - sometimes you hit each other in F2D, and hitting engine to engine equals two dead engines in most cases.
About 1 in 10 of these things worked with some sizes being a bit better than others. We knew them as Metal Door Stops.
great info Thank you. I need help please. I just started this nitro hobby and. I have inherited some really nice cars. my question is. what keeps the glow plug hot ? is there a plug wire and if there is a plug wire. what does it plug into ? also I don't understand the concept of no valves. how does these engines work with no valves or gear oil in the crank ? I need someone to show me any and all info is appreciated.
Interesting video, I didn't know failure rates could be so high! My best failure so far was an evo 40 that came stock on a GP Arrow. The motor ate its ball bearing races, not sure why but there was only part of a worn thin race left and the rest scuffed up the cylinder. Only other failure was an Enya 45 that cracked a ring because the gap in the ring was to small to allow for expansion, The ring scuffed the cylinder but I put it back together without any machine work except some filing on the new ring gap. That motor still runs strong after 30 years, which was really about ten seasons worth of weekend flying. Yes this motor had a cast iron ring!
I've been into nitro R/C for several decades myself, and although I do have several planes and can fly well enough, I'm more of a land lubber and am into 1/8 scale off-road buggies. I've blown up more than my share of nitro engines over the years. Not from poor tuning skills, but rather HARD running. I like high RPM horsepower way more than low RPM torque, and my preferred engines all tended to display this trait.
I've seen all kinds of failures, usually the common ones shown in this video, but the strangest failure I've seen was with an engine that suddenly stopped. It didn't "wind down" like when one typically blows up, but rather just stopped instantly. It sounded very different than usual when it let go. When I got it home and started tearing it down, I removed the cooling head and button, and the piston was missing, nowhere to be found. There was just a rod and piston pin in there. WTH?? 🤔 I got the back-plate off, and there was the piston..
No piece of it larger than a grain of sand, just piston dust. The piston somehow just crumbled off the rod, right into dust. The rod or crank wasn't harmed, the crank bearings were fine, just a piston failure I guess... Strangest thing I've ever seen. 🤷🏻
I've seen some pretty strange stuff myself. We had an engine that stoped abruptly and on inspection, one of the balls from the rear crankshaft bearing had made its way into the cylinder. The ball was far too big to have passed through a transfer port so I have absolutely no idea how it got there but it certainly was and the piston was trying to push it through the head. Nobody could explain exactly how that happened.
@@xjet 😂 That's DEFINITELY and odd one.
love nitro
Agreed - I have hours and hours of swearing material tuning my old nitro cars hahaha
Thanks for the video Bruce! Electrics are nice and easy and clean, but nitro has a place in this hobby. They have great power at a better price than electrics for the larger models.
Interesting stuff, small powerful engines are fascinating! Looks like it might be possible to make a single franken-engine from the box-full, if there's any good cranks in there, that's the kind of thing I'd try on a lark!
we still fly nitros in colombia and south america lots of them actually. great video. my webra 50 hit the ground on sunday with the prop on low pass and lost power it runs good while taking off and then after a circle it starts to loose power any ideas? why? regards
david
Bring it on! love to see something on Nitro,most channels on You -Tube are electric only. Please bring out more of your collection of stuff that went bang. I recently aquired a few niteo engines. My question would be,should I replace the bearings. They seem to be ok,some old gummy crud in them,I did soak them in break away to soften and remove the old oils,cleaned and regreased the bearings,they seem to be ok,one has stiff bearings however. I have no idea how many hours they have on them. My goal is to invest in at least one nitro plane. I have 8 electric planes,one is an Extra 300 in pieces,it didnt do well in the take off on its first maiden. Shame because its my only balsa. The wing and Epinage are fine,just needs a new middle secttion. I have the materials to fix it,just need to get it going.
Castor oil eventually gums the engines up causing all sorts of mechanical gremlins, I prefer synthetic in my engines.
Only if it sits......if you run caster regularly it wont gum. Caster gives superior protection. Mind you, for larger engines synthetic if fine. 1/2 A engines need castor oil for heat dissipation. Small engines create extreme heat.....caster still lubes as it breaks down.
Had the MDS 45 black head and that was a screamer. Also 2 of the 148s. One was converted to diesel and was a blast to run. Had it in my CMpro P47 . Would still be running it today if the fuel was easy to get. I would run diesel over electric or glo any day.
I need help with settings on Foxeer Nightwolf to fly at night. I have problems with the moonlite sky looking very bright but the ground is just black and I can't make out any obstacles or judge altitude. Also when the camera is pointed at a street light or even the moon, my whole image gets washed out with light saturation and I am blinded for few seconds. I don't understand AGC or DDWR settings, when and how to use them. Can you shed some light on this topic (no pun intended)
yep very interesting to see some old school
Nice Flying Skills 😎😀👍🏼 Of Course This Video is Interesting
Not needing high performance I used the tiny "diesels" rather than glow. Usually the tiny Quickstarts (a misnomer for the most part) They too had a tendency to eat themselves in mid -air. I just sold my last one to a collector.
yes pleas more videos on the engines a would like to see sum video on your new MDS 61
just interested , but are there no spare part dealers for these motors in New Zealand, if there was would love to see you do a video of repairing them.. also why use castor in your fuel when synthetic is so much better?
money is afactor in this hobby
Interesting, I've flown glow for 40 years and 'never' had an engine go 'bang'. The fact I buy OS may have something to do with it, still fly my old 1982 OS 40 FSR ABC most weeks. 20% caster and good quality engines they do last 'forever' :)
And your absolutely right Stephen. OS Max are the best on the market,without doubt.
All my nitro engines went bang .That was the noise they made as they hit the bottom of the dust bin .. Only fly either Electric or two stroke spark ignition gassers these days.. Nitro is too much of a pain in the ASS , biggest problem is the cost of glow plugs now and their unreliablity .
Nice to see something that isn't bloody boring drones, jesus! Nitro still is popular at aeroclubs!! How about some DLE petrol engines in 3D or other planes?
one of my favorite vids that wasn't just making fun of steave.
I've flown .45 and .60 sized "nitro" engines for years. The only failure I had was once when I was flying in Las Vegas. It was well over 100 degrees F that day and everyone else had gone home. I think, if I remember correctly, it was 109 degrees to be exact. I was trying to run an old K&B .61 pretty rich but it got so hot it seized!
I hate to see nitro go. Gasoline is cheaper but everybody has gone to such large airplanes. I still like the .60 sized aircraft.
Nitro engines are awesome!
got a mate who's into this, but I'm trying to convince him to get into glow fuel engines, they have so much character ! Electric may be more convenient, but these nitro's are just awesome !
Great video Bruce. I've got a bunch of 4 strokes and can't for the life of me find tutorials on how to get one going again. Any chance you could help out with a how to vid? thanks
I've scattered plenty of nitro motors running in boats. Specially running a 65 Rossi at 36,000rpm. Only real problems were the bearings failing most of the time.
Pretty neat! It went caboomski! Screaming its butt off! Lol!
Rear inlet engines should be pretty immune to the crankshaft fault? That rotary valve is a huge weakness.