FF7 Remake & The Complicated Nature of Remakes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2020
- Remaking games is complicated.
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"MGS2 did the same thing over a decade ago"
MGS2 is almost 20 years old, that's quite an understatement
Noooo i refuse to accept the PS2 is 20 years old i refuse!!!!!!
I first played it 8 years ago. It definitely stood the test of time.
That was a really retarded comparison. It's not like MGS2 was called Metal Gear Solid 2, RETURN OF SOLID SNAKE AS THE MAIN CHARACTER.
Then turn out not to be. FF7 is a reboot and a reimagining. Not a remake.
@@LionofDawn Like RE2, which the devs and CAPCOM said was a reimagining (See CAPCOM confidential episode 15: th-cam.com/video/VSLJFaE5i4g/w-d-xo.html) and in turn RE3 and RE4. They explicitly say it's not a replacement. FFVIIR is a sequel combined with the largest case of false advertising in gaming. The MGS2 comparison really is stupid...
@@Garry_Combine i see it more on the new Yoshi island of video games
Imagine looking at FFVII’s original convoluted plot and thinking, “you know what this needs? Time travel and alternate realities!”
Hahahaha if only they just smoothed things out or gone into more details right?
Strokes of genius
Just like XIII lol. They were like: "hey, people didn't understand wtf was going on, let's add gods, apocalipse, alternate dimensions and time travel"
@Grima the Fell Dragon XIII-2 is the best of the trilogy imo. If you haven't played the first, a lot will ride on what you think of the combat. I personally like it, but a lot of people don't. But yeah, if you don't take the story seriously, there's fun to be had.
fuck yes
Remounting Romeo & Juliet is a task undertaken knowing that the audience already knows what’s going to happen. It doesn’t compel the director to change the ending for novelty’s sake. The story is not less interesting because we already know what happens.
Egg. Zactly. Well said 👏🏻
Ff7 remake: collective meltdown
Re3 remake: collective letdown
Press F for re3
Eu jogo video game F
OG RE3 is why I hobbled myself a bit deliberately when playing Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Nemesis / Wesker / Virgil was not top tier, but it was fun / fan service as hell
Oh come on. The negativity surrounding REmake 3 is sensationalized. The game’s fine. It just needed more content or a reduced price. There are way worse games out there.
Tbh I'd rather it be this way, rather than the other way around
I would at least say that Final Fantasy 7 remake did a whole lot better than Resident Evil 3 remake Dear God it was bad.
I think we can all agree they should have called this game:
"Final Fantasy 7.77 You Can [not] Remake"
TRUTH!!!
if my rammed my head into my desk any more after playing this game.... franky...
id need a new desk..
Cyber Console wolf um they actually took over and redid the models all over so, it’s why it got delayed in the 1st place, so it’s not that they were slow it’s more like they decided a couple of years into production to take it in house and restart the code.
Cyber Console wolf they reworked it as their choice I think to be closer to a certain ascetic they announced it themselves years ago
Cyber Console wolf also Um correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t a certain director wait til after a certain 3 part of a series was done to get serious about the remake.....
The game is essentially a direct sequel to FF7 which simply happens to have the subtitle "Remake"
genius kojumbo
I think the idea of Remake being the subtitle is genius, Nomura is on crack but it’s working. I am hoping that each part would have a different “re” subtitle, with the conclusion ending on “Final Fantasy VII: Reunion” and it would hopefully be released in 2027 on the 30th anniversary of the original release. FFVII is my favorite game of all time, and remake is an amazing set up with plenty of potential
@@parcival3016 nah, what a waste of a remake this was, nonsensical tima travel and parallel dimension garbage is not interesting in the slightest, it's all shiny graphics and nothing else, if this didn't have the FF7 name it would be dismissed as the trite that it is.
@@Gigamokin It’s because it’s FFVII that it’s able to build on the prestablished world and rules set within it. On top of that, i think if it’s just all shiny graphics i don’t think it would have had the commercial success that it had, and have sparked as many conversations and debates as it has. At the end of the day, idk you’re relationship with FFVII but it’s my favorite game of all time and i think an expansion to the world and the characters so many people grew to love with the opportunity of seeing so many of the what ifs fans had growing up playing the game sparks a lot of excitement for a lot of people. If you’re not the biggest fan of FFVII and you don’t like the story then i have to respect that bc it’s your opinion, but i don’t think it’s right to just try to write the remake off as “garbage” when so many people have been very accepting and infatuated with the characters, the world, and the overarching story that’s being presented on a grander scale. But to each there own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@parcival3016 Rules? Waht rules? there are no rules anymore, characters revive for no reason, time travel and dimension plot lines that were never even stablished to be possbile, if anything is a complete rewrite of the rules.
It's in my top 3 favorite games ever, it's because of that that I care, and it's becasue I care that I see how they butchered the orginal story with fanfiction tier writing, it's those who are blinded by shiny graphics and "surprise and subversion" that I question if they ever even cared about the orginal story in the first place.
Nostalgia can only account for so much, being exceited is undertandable, being dissapointed should be too, some people want to pretend it was worth it to keep the illusion, it wasn't.
@@Gigamokin There are definitely some questionable things, but to me that’s okay because the way it’s going, you can still enjoy the original in a self contained story in its original form. FFVIIR is cool because it’s not changing anything about the original, nothing is retconned, nothing is changed, the story of FFVIIR is completely separate from the story of the original, Nomura and his team are just building on top of the original instead of tearing it down and trying to build over it. Which i think a lot of people were nervous about going into the release
I hope the end part is not gonna be everyone teaming up from different timelines to fight 13 Sephirots
I've been saying that's EXACTLY what's going to happen. Probably on the surface of METEOR.
Nomura has absolutley no self-control.
Toasty Danny oh no.
*kingdom hearts intensifies*
Holy shit, I can actually see this happening
13 seekers of JENOVA
8:18 "FF7 Remake has become the gaming industry's The Last Jedi"
Neil Druckmann: "Are you sure about that?"
Oh wow, was it really that badly received?
@@allmensland2106 by most older fans yes. It's not even the same story and it's childish. It felt like I'm playing a childish FF7 version with KH elements.
They also censored the gore from the original and made the characters sounds like gringe anime.
The gameplay is fun but I got bored with the game after the plate fallout. The pace is so slow just to justify a separate release plus long corridors hidden loadings.
( Cloud is forced to either walk slowly or crawl under something).
@@RIELTURO you don't know how they sounded in the original. It wasn't voiced... as for the violence sure I guess but I meen it's ff not manhunt it's not like the violence is the selling point. And I don't get how it is childish. As for the ending I can get why people don't like it but hey I love it but I'm a huge kingdom hearts fan so by now I knew that with Nomura as director there was no way it was just gonna be the same game. All the titles to his games are the way they are for a very specific reason.
@@toad1863 it's not the violence the issue. But the censorship of a major scene of the scenario. You wake up to find a massacre made by Sephiroth. Until now you only heard his name in the original game and the first thing you see done by him is a massacre of the Shinra employees.
And how it sounds childish well by the end you know all the group is always cheering themselves up with thumps up and things they say just sound childish. The original didn't had this feel.
@@RIELTURO feel is subjective, and it is unfortunate that it didn't land for you in the same way as before. For me personally nothing they could do would make it work a second time around. I can't remember if there was specific dialog in the original game that transitions the mood of the party gradually from one scene to the next, but with modern design it's commonplace to have small talk in-between scenes so if anything for me the new dialog in-between scenes create a better sence of continuity. In the original it was kinda up to your interpretation. But hey atleast the original is still there if you prefer it which is more than you can say for some companies.
While I do not like how they pulled a meta commentary/subversion BS with the remake, I really like the point you make that because the remake did that, it made the original more relevant than ever. If you want to experience FF7 the same way people did in the last 23 years, they have to play the original. The remake cannot be used as a substitute for the original
Its a sequel, not a remake.
I think that is cool, but they sold the game as a remake, not a sequel.
Now wait until someone remakes ALL FF7 PS1 CUTSCENES AND STORY MOMENTS IN A HD 3D MOVIE
THEN EVERYONE IS HAPPY
I'm sorry, but that's honestly a very silly take. It was marketed as a remake and bought as a remake. People wanted a remake. Now you're saying "Wow, Squenix so clever for not giving us a remake. Let me interpret their deception as an intentional pseudo-intellectual subversion to make a meta-commentary about remakes." That's just confirmation bias, you seeing what you want to see. Even if you were right, it'd still not change the fundamental facts I mentioned above. If they wanted to "make that statement", they could've just said it and told people "we're not doing a remake". This just comes across as mental gymnastics to praise a company you're a fan of.
@@Rafael-rn6hn Lol... think thru what you're saying coz it's honestly very silly
"If they wanted to subvert our expectations they should've just said so in the beginning!!" lolol
If your issue is one of potential misleading advertising, then sure let's talk about that, but you'll need very specific examples because even from early dev interviews to the description on the box itself, it seems they delivered what they promised. A retelling of the Midgar section of the original nearly beat-for-beat (reactor bombings > Aerith > wall market > shinra building > highway escape), and not only fleshed and expanded on that main story but added something at the end
Here's the 'fundamentals'. If someone bought the game under the pretense that this would be a 1-to-1 remake of the original's plot, and then saw the new direction the game is taking at the end, and was pleasantly surprised and excited by the prospect of something new (gasp) and not rehashing the same old shit like all other nostalgia-farming, no-risk, cash grab remakes - then yes, OP's take is not a silly one at all, but an open-minded one that reflects the characteristics of someone who is open to fresh ideas
@@Jose-se9pu That's because it's not a sequel since it clearly takes place in a different timeline from the original.
And before you say it no, there's zero confirmation that Sephiroth in this game is from Advent Children or that time traveling is even a thing in this games story.
As someone who didnt play the old FF7, this is my first FF game iv owned and the 3rd I played. I didnt need anything explained.I just used context clues to figure out what i needed too in game.Never even needing a video or anything.
But this is a sequel to FF7 definitely.
They introduced time lines and/or alt dimensions. Even if they hold off on meta stuff in the future, they've established very wild ideas that well, jump the shark so to speak. It's no longer grounded story of a rag tag group trying to save the planet from an evil corporation and lunatic wanting to become a god. I don't think the next installments can go anywhere but be crazier, more bombastic.
They have basically wrote a blank check to re do anything they want with the IP and make up a whole new compilation. I have a feeling we will not see any new FF stuff for a couple of years. They are going to try and milk FF7, but indo not think they will be as successful as I do not thin the remake will make any new fans of the series.
“He’s this game’s satan” ... Nah, that’s Jenova
Basically, it's "Remake" the verb, not "remake" the noun.
So the title still stands....albeit in a trollish manner :P
If it is the verb, it would have to be FFVII Remade. As you're suggesting it is just a grammatical error.
@@louisvictor3473 separate from the "final fantasy vii " part as the logo suggests. Same as "the lord of the rings: the two towers" .....separate the sub title and you can write anything, noun, verb, etc.
In any case, the action of "remaking" FFVii comes down to the ending events. The game is basically "remake" the noun until the destruction of fate.
Louis Victor nah, if you’re getting into details, “remake” still stands as the infinitive version of the verb.
Also the imperative.
So should we by many of this insane arguments change the names of the new Resident Evil games from remake too because the gameplay is sorta the same but not shot for shot like most seem to be expecting, if you want that go play the remasters......
Love the note you end this on, pointing out how lovingly recreated most of midgar is in mood and tone and theme and how the developers understand there's a balance to strike between old and new. I understand people's trepidation about future instalments, but I honestly feel they've earned my faith here. I cannot believe for a moment that the people who wrote these characters and their world, as they are expanded upon in remake, with such love and reverance are going to throw that away for 'Nomura Kingdom Hearts Bullshit'. This game had its finger on the still beating pulse of FF7's themes and characters, and that's why I'm happy to stick around.
I'd have to echo this sentiment. The video accurately covered both sides of the fan reaction and wasn't itself a knee-jerk reactionary take on the game. I think the points that ended up swaying me were when he mentioned the fans going through the five stages of grief before arriving at a state of cautious optimism and the end stating, in effect, that the developers are aware of the pressure and the stakes.
Because in the last chapter you LITERALLY fight a Heartless, characters talk in riddles like in the KH franchise, you have time travel involved, and you have action sequences taken straight from Advent Children (and Zack's sequence being a literal remake of Crisis Core's ending).
While we should give them a chance considering 80% of the game is great...there is the other 20%, and the fact that this very team ruined the themes of characters of FFVII in the past with the compilation.
@@Jose-se9pu Fairly confident both WarMom and myself are aware of how the events of the Remake are being interpreted.
You're of the opinion that the characters are ruined. While I can't say the same for WarMom, I do not share said opinion.
I dont know, i think midgar should be depressing and dark( since the poor regions were supposed to actually be underground without daylight), fitting better the cyberpunk nature of ffvii.
And also they shouldnt call this a remake, thats misleading.
I disagree the remake still has the themes of the original. One of the main themes was Life and Death and we see literally no one other than President Shinra dead. The plate falls and everyone actually important survives, somehow the slums aren't completely crushed, and there are no corpses. The game also has no blood for some reason so the scene where Shinra is killed loses impact. Codex Entry brings up the plate falling in his video which I highly recommend.
I think the thing that bothers so many people about the FF7 remake isn't the fact that they did new things, it's just that they are seemingly not willing to follow the original timeline while doing so. That and then the fact that the game actually did introduce new story elements to the game while managing to completely keep the original story intact.
The entire section with Jessie going to steal a weaker blasting agent is PERFECT in my opinion. It was a completely new story section in the remake and did a lot to impact the overall feeling of the story. The plate falling and Jessie dying is now WAY more impactful because you get to spend more time with the character. Not only that, but (if you paid attention) Jessie's parents LIVE ON TOP OF THE SECTOR 7 PLATE. I didn't catch that little tidbit until the second playthrough. Knowing that Jessie's entire family was most likely wiped out in a single night is heartbreaking.
Fans are upset because those are the story changes we were expecting. The sector 7 plate might have been a sad moment in the original, but it's STILL just as sad even if you know it will happen because of the additional time we got to spend with Jessie and her family. It made just as much of an impact seeing it happen in the remake as it did for me playing through the original.
And then... you go through 17 chapters of gameplay just like this only to have the last chapter rip EVERYTHING into shreds. I understand not wanting to be confined to the original story, but... I dunno.
spoiler warning i myself had to think one the ending and what i thought of the fates and in the end i decided that i like the direction they are going. i agree they kept alot of the core elements in tact and if fans had bean paying attention square enix even said that their would be changes and i was expecting part one to be midgar only as i saw it in an interview before the game was released. i am waiting for part 2.
A perfect remake should add , improve , and preserve. Nothing more nothing less. Re 1 remake is the best example of add, improve , preserve.
This^
Spongebob battle for bikini bottom rehydrated seems to take the advice of add , improve , preserve.
So far, the vii remake preserved the story and added stuff, so...
@@Rihcterwilker for now. It's only the first part. Who knows how much will be changed in the second part so on so forth. Ff7 "remake" is a combination of a remake , reimagining and a sequel...... So yeah my boy.....
@@Scott-M1 ☝
I can’t wait to see Cloud take on field monsters in part two after fighting of the ghosts of his future and Time and Space God Sephiroth from Advent Children at the end of part one.
Its Okay that: "wasnt even his final form" im sure the dead Migardsormr scene near the chocobo ranch will send our characters reeling and second guessing like it did in OG. Because im sure theyre going to lose to a giant snake, and have to get chocobos to get around that obstacle....
Their power level was an anomaly only occuring inside the "portal" ...... ?
@@MrDezokokotar and here's the problem with this vs Kingdom Hearts. Unless that was confirmed in the Ultimania it's just an idea made from fans and most likely wont be addressed by square. It works in KH because the idea of power scaling isnt important since characters can one up each other with vague ideas of light/dark. FFVII and it's ''power scaling'' is an important part of the stories. The Weapons are a huge problem because there isnt anything the cast faces in the game before that. Now at the end of part 1, before the cast has even properly started the important changes in their character arcs, they kill destiny and fight Sephiroth. Even if killing destiny was just a Sephiroth master plan, it still affects how most players view the things that follow.
Right lmao
@@Jiyodan153 power scaling defintley exists in the Kingdom Hearts series. writing off combatants using light/dark as some plot device to powerup or one up each other (which almost never happens) is just wrong.
Great video dude! They definitely would've got hate for titling it Re:Make though 😂
Resident Evil Remake (2002) basically ended the discussion of "what makes a perfect remake." Unfortunately, game developers, including Capcom themselves, never took note.
You must be fun at parties
And even then that game didn't manage to fully improve on the original. It didn't manage to make cohesive stories out of the two campaigns but added. But man, when it worked right, damn did it do well :")
Re 3 remake kinda sucked but re 2 remake was amazing
15:30 If they want to explore new territory, make a new game, with a new story and new characters.
If you want to do remake, DO A REMAKE
So we should have worded it differently when we asked for a “remake”?
We should have asked for a remaster ;)
But we already have the remaster
@@Source1987 no play the original
@@Source1987 remaster means upscaling the graphics. it is not a remake. if you look for a perfect remake, look REmake
@@GeekTheGecko If it doesn't have time traveling Wesker opening portals to parallel dimensions is not a good remake.
"With some Advent Children Fanservice..."
Hmmmmm...
Idk bro...
I'm pretty sure that Sephiroth in Remake is literally just the one from Advent Children...
Remember when he fades away?
"I will... NEVER be a memory..."
Couple that with the fact that he is practically egging you on to break the lore and cannon throughout the whole of Remake...
Yeah I think this is the same Sephiroth.
Plus didn't the makers of the series say this was supposed to be a spiritual sequel and ending for the Final Fantasy VII saga as a whole?
no, it the true sephiroth, the other ones is all cloud's memory of what he thought he looked like. it all in his head til the final fight that the sephiroth that is in the life stream. no the did not say it was a sequel at all that was wild theories about them saying remake had double meaning but was never right out said it was a sequel, but what the did say was this game is a expanded version of the story with all ff7 lore in it.
donald curry just because they didn't say it doesn't mean it Isn't true
I say it's AC seph. The wing is a giant give away. Not only that but during the final fight, when cloud "attempts' to omnislash him. He block's every single blow as if he knew it already.
Honestly, even a 1:1 story remake would still feel different, even if we know what's going to happen.
Like you said, gameplay and presentation have an effect, and seeing VII in this way, even when knowing what will happen, is still exciting.
I was giddy as hell playing the Crash and Spyro remakes, because just seeing and hearing them in this modern way was so damn cool, and they didn't need to change.
The original VII's quality speaks for itself, it's already a damn fine game (unless you just hate turn based combat), and seeing it in this modern presentation with voice acting and deeper characters is a new experience in itself.
I think a lot of the problems with the changes FF7 Remake has is that the themes of changing destiny and the plot ghosts don't blend with some of the themes of the original FF7. Accepting loss and not letting fear rule over you. The things that have been added drastically change how we will view future things.
I agree with that. I hope that they still put that in there by giving us the hope of saving Aerith, but then her dying anyway or something. I think resurrecting every character ends up cheapening the message.
@@adognamedsally I'm 100% sure they will still kill Aerith off (albeit in a different manner). Otherwise there is no Holy to stop Meteor and Sephiroth will win.
That first scene with Sephiroth in the alley definitely raised some eyebrows for me the first time around but when seeing Aerith already at the meeting point spilled everything for me especially after finding out what the whispers really were
What beans?
Kels Oha pinto I’m sure of it
I don't think comparing it to MGS2 is really fair either because MGS2 was marketed as a sequel not a remake of the original. The expectations were different there so I didn't have any issues getting my expectations subverted while with the FF7 Remake I expected at least the main plot to stay the same. I honestly would've been fine with major changes if they were done well. The meta commentary with the whispers was just horribly done. The generic designs of them and the concept of Destiny and Fate don't fit well with the FF7 Universe in my opinion. The ending bosses in general ruined my enjoyment of the game because of how over the top they were. Why should I be afraid or care about Sephiroth in the next game when we already had an epic boss fight with him? Why should I be afraid of the Midgar Zolom that Sephiroth was able to easily defeat while the party couldn't? They should've had either Jenova or another Roche fight be the final battle on the highway, you could still have an epic boss fight without it being so over the top that it ruins the any concern for the characters you have in the next game.
Personally, i was hoping for a suped up Motorball on par or surpassing in epicness with Airbuster for a final boss. I wouldnt have cared if it had like 4 forms and was some crazy Machine that went out of its way to kill cloud and friends..
Agree 100%.
Another thing - these characters are literally not THE characters.
They're alternate universe doppelgangers and I don't care about what happens to them.
I think maybe the three Whispers you fought at the end was Nomura being passive aggressive and having you kill off the OG Cloud, Barrett and Tifa, too
I want nothing to do with Part 2 and FF7 is my favorite game of all time.
Robot Co-Op Except the whispers aren’t the OG gang at all. The one with guns has two guns, the one with fists only has one gauntlet. They’re actually the remnants of Sephiroth from Advent Children, Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, the ultimania even confirms this. Tbh, I disagree completely about the characters in this game, they’re the best they’ve ever really been represented, 100x better than compilation, and Nomura and Kitase said the rest of the remake will still follow the path of the original 7, the only things that will change is how they get to these events, plus the Ultimania also outright says the ghosts are gone and will never appear again.
@@charlestonobryant807 Why on earth would remnants of Sephiroth be HELPING the force that's trying to keep fate on track when that's the exact opposite of his goal?
Furthermore, I could care less about cash grab supplemental books and what they have to say with how contradictory and incohesive the entire FF7 universe has become.
Regardless of who they're meant to me, it doesn't change the fact that at the end of the game, you're still sucked inside a ridiculous alternate Midgar to face a FATE TITAN inside a destiny tornado. It's Michael Bay levels of obnoxious, adolescent writing.
Never mind that now the party has slain what might as well be GOD before even leaving Midgar. They've kicked both Jenova and Sephiroth's ass as well. Nothing should be a challenge for them after that.
As for the charatizarion, I agree. It's phenomenal. It's why it's so disappointing to feel nothing looking at them after the ending confirmed they're alternate timeline doppelgangers. There is no fixing the damage the ending did to my connection to them.
Lastly, if they do stick to the script in Part 2 then what was the bloody point of the Whispers and defeating fate?
*cough* padding *cough*
@@charlestonobryant807 I almost feel bad for you people clutching at anything you can to tell yourself that ending wasn't ruinous garbage.
I'll be ignoring the hell out of Part 2 whether they get back on track or not. They lied and there is no debating that. They don't get another $60 from me.
I think one of the major things that is often overlooked in the argument of people like me who are against this new direction for FF7R (other than the obvious reductionist argument of "You're just against changing anything") is that we care not only about preserving what made the original special, but that many of us wanted a version of Final Fantasy VII that we could eventually pass down to our children that they'd be at least somewhat willing to accept in terms of visual/audio/gameplay fidelity.
Unlike when movies/TV shows are remade, or when artists produce new covers of famous songs, videogames (ESPECIALLY the 1st generation of 3D gaming) were incredibly ambitious in their day but incredibly held back by technology. It makes it hard for someone like me to pass on the stories and themes of Final Fantasy VII to the people who were not even born at the time of its original release, because while the original Final Fantasy VII was a product of its time, many of its themes and conflicts have very much stood the test of time, or as Jeremy Parish recently put it "feel pulled from the headlines of 2020". For me, the themes of ultra capitalism, lost identity, the loss of loved ones, as presented in Final Fantasy VII is something I want to show to the generation after me, but if I were to simply put a PS1 in front of them and boot up OG FFVII they'd just look at me and think "You got emotionally attached to these fucking legos? What a joke your generation was!" This isn't just about fans being uptight about changes to their precious game, it's about the sadness that comes from knowing that the original Final Fantasy VII is now confined to being a product of its time and will no longer achieve the dream of transcending it.
The mindset that we should just be open to a meta-commentary on remakes via FFVIIr to me operates under the assumption that only the generation that loved the original Final Fantasy VII is allowed to experience and enjoy a (not) remake of it, which to me is a very self-serving mental construct. For example when I heard you say "Well, you're a different person now," my response is "This isn't just about me, it's about those who will succeed me," It turns both the original and the new into a temporary construct for us to talk about and spark discussion, but once we're all dead and gone that conversation will be nothing but air that has faded, and only the art will remain. And if that art is created only to spark a temporary discussion rather than stand on its own, I can't wholeheartedly support it.
generations after us will enjoy the game i guarantee it. just like i still enjoy dragon quest games that are older so will the newer generation enjoy what is new today.
"You don't see anyone die from the plate falling." Er... WAY less people die in the remake. Hell, BUILDINGS ARE STILL STANDING. It's insane how small of an impact the plate falling had in the remake. It was more like an inconvenience than a world ending event, for sector 7.
The only real problem I have with the way these twists are handled is that it makes a game that wasn't about Fate, a very common Nomura trope and common in more recent FF games, about Fate. I think it does detract from some of the uniqueness of the game in comparison with the series. Me, I'm not an FF7 guy, but I really do think that does affect my opinion a bit because XV, XIII, etc. all take 'fate' as a common plot point.
First, it appears to me that Final Fantasy VII Remake is not a Remake, it's a sequel.
Second, I start the video and see Anno, and I literally said "YES, HE GET'S IT!" I am getting close to being done with my playthrough (Chapter 15) but I have been saying on my streams that the game is literally Final Fantasy VII Rebuild and then explaining the NGE Rebuild movies to people, how it hits the original story beats and then in 2.0 takes a big fork in the story telling.
Pretty much, the next part might be Rebuild 3...I mean, this game is already Rebuild 2, the same story with just a few changes until the ending, when they changed EVERYTHING.
Definitely not a sequel
It absolutely is a sequel - technically. But practically it can easily be considered a remake.
Thank you Ken. I've been screaming this at the top of my lungs for weeks now. Game's still a barrel of bullshit but hey.
Okay, I just beat the game and yes, it's a sequel. Also every single crazy theory I had turned out right so I have no idea where they are going to go with the new one when it comes out in 3-4 yrs because Square is run by morons. Title of the game should have been Final Fantasy 7 Rebuild 2.0
23:40 I would have to disagree, while it's true he inherently wouldn't be as mysterious anymore. I feel like if they did what you suggested, re-framing him to not really showing his face for example would still work in its own way. After all, a fair amount of say, hype was still generated for when everyone was waiting for what they did to Tifa before finally revealing her in a trailer. I feel as though they could've easily done the same thing for him, but instead reserved for future games. Also maybe like not model his actual face, in case someone just tries to data-mine and see what he looks like.
The difference between Metal Gear Solid 2 and all other popular examples of a story "subverting expectations" is that MGS2 doesn't end immediately after revealing Raiden. There is nothing less engaging than a story ending with, "Next time we'll do something interesting," like how FF7R and The Last Jedi ended. If a writer wants to tell a different story they should just do it, don't waste my time by pulling the rug out from under me so slowly that it becomes painful to endure, just start off with that.
if it can help you, in interwiews they already confirmed that they won't change much of the iconic moments
@@neobahumuth6 Too late. Everything is changed. They can have a literal 1 to 1 remake from here on out, and it's still completely different.
It's like going to a classical piano concert, hearing the beautiful music. And then for 10 minutes in the middle, the Pianist just wham on the keys, making a racket. After the 10 minutes, they go back to playing beautiful music for the rest of the 2 hour show. That 10 minutes would completely overshadow the rest of the 2 hours.
@@shorewall cept that didn't happen, ppl are just trying to find fault and tbh they never believed in the project at all so once they saw a small difference they cry foul, just like when they saw the scene were shinra was behind the bombing all along and turned out it was all connected to the dialogue you had in the original with Jesse about the power of the bomb which went nowhere, here they used it to greater effect, but ppl want to believe the story that the plot of FF7 was about the grey morality of it all (hint it never was)
@@neobahumuth6 zack is alive now
@@SlavoidUkr it's not exactly clear if he's alive or not because the stamp is different on the potato chips
Great video Foxcade! I'm really happy that a lot of videos are coming out now examining the different perspectives on Remake without inherently declaring one viewpoint better. Personally, I feel pretty closely to Clemps in your video regarding some of the changes lol. One thing that bums me out though is the fan fighting you brought up. I think both stances regarding the changes are extremely valid & it's honestly upsetting seeing people on both sides being rude to each other. Like, even though the twist on FF7R has me feeling bummed out, I've seen others who are excited about the artistic expression behind this and genuine bravery in pulling this move. So for someone who hates the changes to turn around and call those fans "Idiots, Square/Nomura shills, assholes, etc." is honestly a dick move. Inversely, there are thousands of people who wanted to experience something that recreated the OG game more closely out of genuine love and the concept of sharing a same experience in a somewhat new way, including the fact that for many people FF7 helped them through hardships in life & means something profound to them. Throwing "idiots, dumb purists, coward, etc.".... I mean you see where I'm going with this.
It sucks that the go to for media discourse has become vitriol, especially when launched at people without being incited outside of someone just saying "hey I like/dislike this." We don't have to be so toxic towards each other.
All I can say is Amen to that. ♥️
Can’t wait for the videos and comments when The Last of Us 2 comes out
Indeed
Keep it vague. It will be entertaining.
It will be kino
Oh my God, I felt your pain, because I live in the future when we have already suffer with this deception
Maybe it's cause I didn't play the first FF7, but I absolutely loved this. Including the ghost train yard.
"The reunion at hand may bring joy. It may bring fear. But let us embrace whatever it brings. For they are coming back.
"
They Knew.
Finally someone GETS IT. I've been saying this all along
i thought they were talking about gameplay, not this bullshit
@@eftultima Lol... taxes also fund the roads you're using *gasp*!!
They wrote it, of course they knew
@@tarutso ??? What are you talking about
Everyone can have their own opinion guys! But I do wanna say that the structure of a game developing team in Japan does differ to many other studios. The Director, Producer, And Designer roles are not what you initially may think they are in terms of hierarchy. The producer is the head honcho here, hence why there is only one producer of FF7R: Kitase. There are THREE directors: Hamaguchi, Toriyama, Nomura. The two lead designers are Hamaguchi and Endo (Endo primarily on combat design). There were FOUR credited writers for the scenario, script, dialogue and story. Nomura is NOT a credited writer. The four writers are Nojima, Toriyama, Iwaki and Hirano. I am not a Nomura fan by any means. I do not like Kingdom Hearts at all. But please credit the right people when you dish out both negative and positive commentary!
EXACTLY THIS. This is ALL I want ppl to realize.
This. But dude, it's wishful thinking for us to think people would spend 2 seconds to look up some actual facts before spouting nonsense
Yes that's why everything had to go through Sakaguchi in the original. But I still believe that all these new idea's come from Nomura and that Kitase keeps nodding his head in agreement. I refuse to believe that Toriyama, Nojima or Kitase are the true culprits.
@@ShineSpark88 On the Way to A Smile. Lifestream chapter. Look it up. It literally explains how Aerith and Sephiroth knows things of their future self. They used ideas from that book in FF7R. Nojima wrote it himself in 2009. Stop blindly following the hate mob cuz it's "cool" to trash on Nomura. Especially without any proof.
@@KingKien95 1. You are one of only 5 people that read that goddamn book.
2. Why would I believe your stupid bullshit? Post me a link to the exact page of where this happens. Unlike what you said, I don't believe everything that a random person tells me on the internet. I actually don't think that you've read this book and just tell me what someone on the internet said.
3. In no company, can a writer force his ideas on a Director, doesn't matter in which country this company is settled. In the FFVIIR ultimania, this is what Nojima said (you can paste it in Google to check the sources and see the full context):
"These were all ideas I had, so in the beginning I would initially show it to Nomura-san, and I tried my best to explain them clearly to make sure he didn’t reject them (laughs)."
If Nomura doesn't want this shit in his game, then this shit won't be in his game.
Not only didn't he reject ideas, but I believe he actually came up with this Re:make, whisper, changing destiny bullcrap.
Ghost that needed to be put to rest are Aerith's friends from childhood who were killed by Eligor while they were playing. Just so that you know. I LOVED what they did with train graveyard. This video is awesome though! I love the remake and that it's a sequel.
The ghost children stuff in the train graveyard isn't necessarily bad on its own, but it was frustrating for a lot of players because it grinds the pacing of the main story to a complete halt at a very tense, time-sensitive moment in the game. This is why it may have been better suited as an optional quest or at least taking place in a less distracting moment of the story. I think I would have enjoyed it if that were the case.
The autistic nerds can't comprehend
@@isopropyl.24 That's why I dislike that and Hojo's lab, it messes with the pacing, which the game already had a bit of a problem with
@@isopropyl.24 I think it would have been better if they put the Ghost, during Aerith showing the way for Cloud to Sector 7
This game is 70% story, 30% combat and that’s my main problem with it
When I was younger I would always wish that games I loved would get the "modern" treatment. I understand now that what I wanted wasn't a remake but a remaster. When the Gamecube version of the original Resident Evil came out it showed me the potential a remake had. However, these new games such as Resident Evil 2 & 3 or Final Fantasy VII are not remakes. They're too focused on trying to have their own identity without realizing that remakes can never be their own thing since they're beholden to the original. Without the original they wouldn't have much, if any, marketability. The remake of RE1 understood this and changed very little of the core game while adding just enough to stand out compared to the original.
I think the word for those new "remakes" should be "adaptation" instead. They use the concept and many elements of the original, but took on a different approach (in FFVIIR case, drastically to the point of going against the original).
@@JackBlack-jv2wg
That's a much better term for them. Though they probably knew that they couldn't market the games as adaptations because that would imply changes where "remake" sounds faithful.
@Grima the Fell Dragon
That's what I mean. A good remake adheres to the original while changing just enough to keep it fresh. All they really had to do for both FFVII and Resident Evil 2 & 3 was to update the graphics and expand upon certain areas and event. Maybe mix up some of the puzzles, not rewrite everything or change the gameplay.
@Forgetme000 I kinda see your point, I loved Crash 2 and 3, and the Spyro trilogy was my childhood, once I found out they were released on the the ps3 psn store I 100% the Spyro trilogy at least once a year for a few years until they announced the remake but after playing it I didn't feel like replying it not because it was bad, it was a fantastic and pretty faithful (to an extent) remake, the graphics where amazing and it makes the playable for people who didn't want to play the original because it might've been too old and they couldn't get into the graphics so it did it job perfectly as a remake, as for me because of a few nitpicks with the controls, glitches and line deliveries just makes the originals a better version to replay imo, but that's just me.
As for you I think what you want is plain sequels instead of remakes but I don't think that's the point of this conversation, I mean I don't think everyone wanted 1:1 remake, people just wanted the game to be modernized. I'm didn't like the gameplay of FF7R at all but they could've just kept it and kept the extra personality and flair they added to the characters with the same story of the original and the game would've been fine, but instead they made it episodic, they padded the heck out of it with long corridors and walk and talk sections, same with battles since even random monsters have really high hp, and that terrible ending just makes this game a sequel rather than remake it was advertised as.
@@jovenc4508 I agree, especially since I didn't grew up with the original and I couldn't get into it because of the graphics. What I wanted was a faithful remake with changes here and there yes but with the overarching story and gameplay to stay somewhat the same, I would've been ok with a gameplay change if it was good but I dislike the fusion gameplay they decided on for many reasons, like how long the battles last, how you're forced to constantly switch between characters, and how the characters you're not controlling don't do much on their own. And another thing, while this is not the games fault, I hate how people use this game to hate on turn based rpgs and how "outdated" they're according to them. As for the story they dropped the ball really hard imo, this game isn't even a remake at this point.
Still more respectful then The Last of Us Part 2 spoilers. Thats all I'll say.
I like it
Agreed
They didn't learn from DisneyWars, HUH?!
@@Ramsey276one nobody will till about 10 companies minium shut down because that bs causes them to go bankrupt
*USED TO PLAY COLLEGE GOLF*
I just don’t care about FF7 anymore. I loved playing it as a kid and I’ve had fun going back to it through the years but the future installment has me less than thrilled. This first part was OK (I’m in the group that didn’t like the ending) but it just didn’t hit the same notes the original had, and I’m ok with that. While it was a fun play through it left me feeling empty. Not sure if I’ll bother with the next installment, but to the people that are excited to see where this ends up, I’m happy for you
I felt that way initially, but I sat with it for a while and realized that there was a lot to be excited for, since we now don't know exactly what's going to come next. It's odd to be excited to find out what's going to happen to a game that I played 23 years ago inside and out, and I really want other people, like yourself, to be able to be in the same position of optimism that I am. I think it is a shame that people are feeling burned by the ending, when it opens up a lot of possibilities for being genuinely and positively surprised later on. I think that you need to detach yourself from the original to some extent and be open to new things in order to feel that way though.
I'm still waiting on the DMC 3 Remake Capcom.
Great point man, I love your take on this and just affirms why I love what I got with this remake that's not a remake
Thats darkness darkness light darkness time travel paradox 13 Seekers of fate changing Zippers and belts Nomura to you pal.
To me, as far as all the info i've gathered, I remember Nomura convinced Kitase to NOT kill so many characters as originally intended, Nomura being more light hearted (childish in a way), they agreed to a middle ground killing several characters but not as many.
Now with the remake it seems that Nomura is doing things his way (in an extremely selfish way), keeping EVERYONE alive, which you can tell by the different story beats and how they seem to want to change the story for the "better" as a good ending.
In my opinion, if anything wanted to be changed i would have preferred the original idea of everyone but three characters dying, as the original story was going to be told before Nomura intervened (Nomura says artistic integrity is important, but only when it's about his story, not the others).
That's the reality of what made the original impactful, if nobody died, mostly a main character (you know who), nobody would have cared nearly as much.
In my honest opinion, Nomura should be let go and not involved at all with RE7R, he doesn't understand the game, he constantly pushes and changes thing so they can be done HIS way, he's selfish and arrogant at the expense of his team.
Totally agree. And when I found out he's the ass clown who headed Kingdom Hearts, the convoluted bullshit in FF7R became even more apparent. A 1:1 to remake would've been way better imo. That's what we were all expecting and wanting. Now, I wouldn't have minded the changes and the idea behind rewriting history, but it's just such a whitewashed version of it that instead of surprising us and expanding on the story in a new interesting way, it just annoys and confuses us by making it go nowhere.
Great vid! Thoughtful, well informed and wholesome. Thank you!
I appreciate the artistic message they put into this game but man I just wanna play the original with fancy graphics.
I think we’re all scared Nomura is going to Nomura this remake. The Whispers make me so nervous. And even though I was crying tears of joy seeing Zack walk away from the fight, but the seemingly diverging time lines and the Whispers and Sephiroth and Aerith knowing more then they’re letting on, I’m just sweating bullets. And yeah subtlety was thrown out of the window with Sephiroth. I feel a bit conflicted about it. I was both happy to see the start and finish of his appearances and mostly rolling my eyes in between going “oh hey Seph how you doing?”. Also I unironically love Dirge of Cerberus with all its stupid campy story, boring gameplay and drawn out melodrama. I love it to bits
Something I think a lot of the people who are intimately familiar with FF7 underestimate is how easy this game is to get into as a newcomer. I had a general knowledge of it, but had only played it once, and didn't finish disc one. My 21 Year Old Cousin played it as his first Final Fantasy, with some basic cultural osmosis knowledge like Aerith's fate. My 12 year old cousin played it with no knowledge of Final Fantasy AT ALL. All 3 of us loved it to pieces.
It can be really hard to look at the game in any other way than how you see it, but I can speak from personal experience that the wealth of easter eggs and callbacks can go right over your head and not affect your experience at all, only to be noticed on a 2nd playthrough as you look into the game. Once you know what the significance of the whispers are, you gain a new understanding of previous scenes.
Lets face it, Final Fantasy is known for its confusing/wacky endings. I think that this one is far more confusing with intimate knowledge of FF7 than without, I've seen both the reactions of both sides and sit somewhere in the middle myself.
As someone who didn't play the original and only had knowledge of FF7 via cultural osmosis, I am really struggling to figure out who the meta commentary is for. Seems like it was frustrating to a lot of old fans, and confusing to people like me who didn't have the context to appreciate it. [Edit: now I got to the end of the video and I have sort of changed my mind, in that I think they did it for themselves, and that's not necessarily the worst thing ever... but I'm not sure it's great]
But I really enjoyed the rest of the game, characters, story. I mean, it's absolutely gorgeous looking, sounding, feeling. And I especially fell in love with the fighting system. It feels so smooth and so satisfying. It's just weird that after thirty+ hours of play time, I'm pretty sure I still don't actually "get it."
Thank you for your work dude, this video was really great, and as someone who's most special game of all time to me is FF VII, I am both extremely excited and scared.
But based on the quality of this first game? I'm extremely optimistic at this unknown journey we'll be going on. I love these characters so dearly, being able to experience something with them recreated so faithfully for what it feels like the first time since the original game, I can't wait to see what the future has in store.
Honestly, most of my frustration comes from the whole "but they also led players to assume we were getting a traditional remake, only to hoodwink us" thing.
It almost always makes me feel like the devs are going "HA got you" at best, and it being false advertising at worse.
Yes, I find the whole Time Whispers and changing destiny thing interesting, but frankly I do not trust Nomura and Nojima to do the idea justice.
There's also the fact that the remake is episodic, and Square is *notoriously* slow at developing Final Fantasy games, and we'll be waiting for and seeing FF7R brought up over and over again for the next decade at least.
Kojima did the exact same thing with MGS2 and the Raiden fakeout, and while people love that game now, it was reviled for "lying" to its players at launch.
We've seen this before- once we have the finished product, we'll see how people think of it.
13-2 and 3 didnt take that long. A sequel is always much faster to make than a completely new game.
They didnt lead players to assume anything. They didnt say or promise it would be a 1:1 retelling. The fans ASSUMED/put those words in their mouths.also if they had revealed what it was that would be spoiled it *shrug*
@@guilegale8942 Very good point, I played MGS2 lastly in the entire mainline series and imo it is the best in the series, it upgraded MGS1's gameplay and had a very competent story. But to this day, people don't like it because there's no playable snake in the real story even though he's heavily involved in the story.
@@OblitusAquila they probably never played subsistences snake tales it was basically their wet dream
This game and ending was amazing, I love the fact that it's actually Sephiroth trying to remake the timeline to suit his needs so that he wins.
replaying the game you realize that during chapter 2 he's delaying cloud so that he doesnt meet Aerith and the whispers have to hold her in place to ensure they meet, then when cloud is left out the bombing mission they have to intervene an dinjur jessie to make sure he goes so that he can fall through the roof of the church and meet Aerith a second time.
This game is phenomenal and the fact it is technically a sequal is awesome.
Red and the Ultimania basically confirm that although we save the planet in the original game humanity is wiped out. the planet is using the whispers to ensure the original story plays out and thus ensure its survival at the cost of humans.
I think the 7s econds to defy destiny mean sthat the only way for Holy to destroy meteor at the end of the game is for Aerith to live, maybe we'll be forced to choose another charcter to sacrifice their lives or something.
Square should be applauded for trying something new and daring with this cause so far part 1 was amazing and if they can pull this off in part 2 and 3 and so on this could be a real masterpiece.
This also leaves the original as a timeless classic and allows it to keep its relevance and importance and will ensure it is always replayed and never forgotton. lets face it who's going back to the crash or spyro trilogy these days now? no one but the original FF7 is still just as relevant and adds so much more importance to this new series.
The impression I had was that the remake team tried to go a different route with Seph's intimidation because he sees Cloud as a *threat* in this game (he didn't before)- he seems to be around every corner, gets into Cloud's face multiple times, and seems to be a hallucination. I also don't get why Seph (this weird human enhanced by JENOVA) gets called 'this game's Satan'. JENOVA is 'this game's Satan'. Sephiroth is her tank.
Because everyone expects that he's the villain, too... There might be a surprise.
17:34
... oh my god
Dark Lord Yoko is already insane
he probably already had some crazy shit planned
then he saw what nomura did...
no one can know what level of insanity the dark lord will spring on us now.
Yoko Taro: IT's TIME FOR MULTIPLE ENDINGS
We: NO, YOKO, NOOOOOOO!!!!
Imagine that they actually change Aerith's death scene in the next part just for the sake of making that moment shocking again after 25 years of memes
They probably will change it...
@@glogy714 Better be Tifa this time, that way the scene would actually be impactful
@@DeepWeeb That would be a terrible idea. It's the literal definition of narrative fridging. Tifa dying serves no purpoae for the story and cuts her characterization arc short. Aerith dying was in tune with her arc AND had a narrative purpose (Aerith using the lifestream to prtect the planet). They can change the circumstances or the time (which would probably be better as you get to spend more time with her) but Aerith should still die and you should also have enough game time left without her to feel the difference
@@flailingdragoon1072 I.have a feeling they are going to remove where she dies and move it to a later part. I have heard people talking about having a Mass Effect like thing but I do not think that will happen as that would be to.much work to create separate scenarios.
@@flailingdragoon1072 You hypocrites do know that Aerith's death was written to make sense? That means if they kill Tifa it can make sense. Depends on how it is executed.
I wouldn't call FFVIIR "The Last Jedi" of video games. Not because I hate the film (which I do), but because of the reasons for why it was made and who was behind it.
With TLJ, it was obvious that director and writer Rian Johnson did not know or care about the ongoing story or canon of the franchise, either new or old. He has even pretty much admitted to this and made it clear that he didn't care about continuing the story of The Force Awakens as much as he did subverting the expectations of the franchise, while also putting his own spin on it in the hopes of enhancing his career. That and his behavior pre- and post-release was far more antagonistic to fans than necessarily. Yes, I am talking about the infamous "Your Snoke Theory Sucks" cue card. It's the image that comes to mind when I think of TLJ more than Luke drinking freshly squeezed alien milk, because it's the clear mindset of someone who doesn't care about the fans or the franchise they are working on.
Contrast that with FFVIIR and it's clear that, despite some issues with the new content and the question of accessibility, it was clear this was a labor of love from the developers of the game who also wanted to give fans the best possible game they could while also doing something new. Cloud wasn't completely changed from either his classic or Advent Children personality just to try and fit a role that he wouldn't normally fill. That's why I don't mind the ending, because it could very well be that the plot of the game will still follow the original while doing new things, but at the very least it is interesting I think. And if you look at the developers, you can see that none of them are interested in dicking around with the fans just to dick around with them. They aren't going to pop up with their own cue cards like "Your Zack Theory Sucks" just to needless stir the pot.
That's all I really had to say on the subject, I can't really fully disagree with a lot of the points you made and I can totally feel for you, I find it almost impossible to talk about this Remake with other people because no one I've met wants to have a nuanced discussion on it and it's sad, since I feel like that would be much more productive in the long run.
I feel very similar about it. It's not the same kind of mixed opinion that splits the audience, and the developers are not being arrogant bastards about it. And... as I keep insisting "When I heard about 'Tetsuya Nomura's FF7', I imagined Hell on Earth, so this is still much better than I feared"
In "The Force awakens" J.J. Abrams implemented his famous "Mystery box" method to create a mediocre Star Wars movie that y'all ate up. It consists of creating a stupid mysteries that you don't get answers to it because there is no answers to it yet, you have to pay another ticket to know it, and that is enough for people that don't enjoy good movies.
In Final Fantasy VII Remake they add stupid plot points that are "mysterious", and everybody's enjoyment of this story is now dependent of what the sequels will be like.
You can like or dislike TLJ, but acting like it's an "insult to fans" because... it "didn't follow TFA story"? What wasn't followed? Oh by story you mean the Mystery Box™ Questions? I would like a nuanced opinion on that.
People should expect sequels to be different and remakes to be the same but we live in bizzarro timeline now.
Foxcade wasn't addressing developer intent when saying FF7R had become gaming's TLJ. He was addressing fans' split reaction to change/expectations.
That said, I still agree with your comment in contrasting the creators' general attitudes toward their projects. It's just not what Foxcade was addressing.
@@kingofthesharks I do understand that, but I did feel it needed to be said since I feel part of why fans are divided *is* because of his needless antagonism towards them. I've actually seen a lot of people make this comment and act like Nomura and the others are doing this just to troll fans or spite them and that just isn't the case. So I just needed to get that out there.
He did kind of address the point I was making about the intent behind the work, though, even if he didn't say anything about Rian Johnson.
@@sena167 I'm going to get this out here right now, I hate The Force Awakens. It has all the problems of Abrams other work, of bad fanfiction and its treatment of characters like Luke, Han and Leia is insulting.
It's not about Johnson following just The Force Awakens story and answering the questions presented (Which he didn't, he just tossed them aside or wrapped them up early), it's about how and why he did.
By Johnson's own words, he did not care about contributing to the larger story of the series. Cuz TLJ wasn't *just* a sequel to TFA, it was also a sequel to the first six films as well, part of an ongoing story and he didn't care about making sure it was consistent with those films in terms of characterization and themes. And no, it's not a matter of Luke now being old and different and things change, the Luke we see in TLJ is absolutely nothing like the Luke of the old trilogy. It doesn't matter if it was a moment of weakness, Luke would never think to kill anyone in their sleep nor run away in shame. Rian Johnson did not familiarize himself with either the old or new continuities in order to create something that felt like Star Wars and depended entirely on the story group to see if he was being consistent, yet they also didn't care. Not just that, but as I said, he needlessly antagonized audiences before
they'd even seen the film, (again, the Cue Card), thus making sure there was bad blood and he's continued to attack fans and use blanket and strawman arguments to defend his film.
If Johnson had wanted to explore his story with other characters that weren't part of an ongoing story, but in one of the anthology films, I highly doubt that we'd be talking about this.
In FFVIIR, it's not them adding things to "be mysterious" and definitely not just for the sake of it. And they also aren't just doing it, like I said, to dick with fans. That's the major difference between this and TLJ or the Sequel Trilogy in general.
The idea that fans are only upset that TLJ didn't follow the story of TFA is ludicrous, because as I said, TLJ is not just a sequel to TFA. It is also attempting to add on to a story that ended with ROJ even though that story ended with Anakin redeemed, dying and restoring balance to the Force like he was supposed to. There's no reason to have used the Episode titles at that point because the story was done, but they wanted to use them for marketing purposes and then decided they weren't going to respect what came before. That's why so many fans don't like Johnson or the sequel trilogy. They did not have respect for what came before and then attacked all fans and claimed them all toxic. And there no doubt are toxic fans, but not all of them are sending death threats or are racist, sexist individuals, that's ridiculous.
Foxcade actually put it best, as did Kitase himself. A completely shot for shot remake wouldn't have satisfied anyone, both because of the context of when it was made but also because there's little ability to further explore things you couldn't before if it was just a shot for shot remake with prettier graphics. As a side note, they actually did just that with Secret of Mana's remake and people thought it was overpriced garbage (sort of hyperbole), thus proving Kitase' point.
What's the website the Aeris death scene in the beginning of the video from? I'd like to see a bigger version of it.
“-we don’t think anything is untouchable.” I would love to see this as passion, but it just comes across as arrogance.
they should remake DMC 2 and make it good
This.... is actually a really good idea!
WickedAnimeTroll i know it’s almost like remaking bad games into good ones is actually a viable option for game devs
I'd rather get DMC6, nothing in DMC2 is worth re-exploring, let's jut move on.
Sam Bougloudou that’s why they remake it they can do whatever the hell they want because literally no one would care so imagine how amazing they could make it
Sam Bougloudou i want a sparda prequel before we get to 6
Two main things for me here:
1 - I don't enjoy deceptive marketing, specially in something that's both expensive and time consuming. (side note: thank you TLOU2 leaker)
2 - I have 0 faith in modern Square storytelling. XIII trilogy was a convoluted mess, XV was split to be milked the hardest, and Nomura's Kingdom hearts is notoriously nonsensical. So there's a high chance the more "freedom" they take with the changes, the worse the story will become.
It's literally all the same people working on the remake though aside from Sakaguchi
I get the cynical feeling to asume the worst, but considering how faithful this was until about chapter 17, and considering Kitase said we should expect the same FF7 events we know and love, I think we gotta have a bit of faith.
@@KisekiFox While people 100% give too much credit to Sakaguchi, there is something to be said of his leadership of the franchise. I'm only speculating, but imagine the difference between Sakaguchi being top dog and Nomura. Nomura comes up with a wacky idea (arbiter of fates), Sakaguchi says "that seems a little over the top, my vision is different. Let's not do it." If Nomura is the head, then he gets the final say, and the final product differs drastically.
Just some food for thought
The potential of XV was there. It sucked that the 3 DLCs werent in the game and the other 3 after ardyn were cancelled. 15 had suhc potential to be one of the best games ever.....but they can learn from that and the mess of the 13 trilogy
@@KisekiFox Sakaguchi to keep Nomura in check is already a big difference, but even if it wasn't, those are the same people 23 years apart. A lot can change on a developers perspective over that time.
The thumbnail for this video is pure art 👌
Fantastic video as always Foxcade.
Oof...Comparing FF7 Story to RE3 outfit changes doesn't correlate like at all. Altering the story drastically is whats getting people undies in a bunch about its more like that imagine if RE3 had Jill die at the end and just through 5 out the window. I also don't understand how making a remake beat for beat is bad? i mean thats why people want a Remake.
It's like they ignore how good RE1 remake is for being nearly 100% perfect. The extra monsters and liza trevor stuff is just icing in the cake and doesn't change anything. But no, this isn't a remake it's a sequel.
I think people want that experience they had with the original game. The Spyro remake is a good example for me. I liked the OG games as a kid played them over and over. I bought the remake, played it once, and that was it. Picking up the same gems, in the same places didn't really satisfy that same sense of discovery and magic that I got from the games when I played them originally. I think this is really what people are after when they ask for a remake, whether they realize it or not.
His point is to demonstrate the risk of changing things in a remake by showing how crazy people go if developers even change even the slightest of things.
@@adognamedsally Please don't compare Spyro with FF fucking seven. I played Spyro 2 Ripto's Rage like 8 times in my youth (was one of my favorite games and had not much else to play) and FFVII for the first time in 2005. FFVII is a piece of art, Spyro is just mild entertainment. The FFVIIR made me so fcking happy and I liked Midgar even more than the OG, until they fcked up everything that made the original so great. The game can absolutely capture the feeling of the original easily. Spyro remastered can too for 1 playthrough (like you said), and then you're done with it. Spyro Reignited butchered the physics and floating mechanic of the original, but I didn't care that much, because it's Spyro. Who cares what they do with those games.
@@ShineSpark88
Whether you consider the game art or entertainment doesn't affect what purpose a remake serves. My contention is that people ask for a remake because they want to relive that experience, not necessarily because they want to repeat the exact same game.
Sure, Spyro wasn't a life-changing game, but still, the impact of that game when it came out is very different than the reignited trilogy.
When it came out originally, it was innovative and offered something new. Now, it is much less so. So, as someone who remembers how I felt playing the original, part of me wanted to feel that way playing the reignited games, but I did not get that, simply because they didn't provide a novel experience, but just a pretty coat of paint. I will say that the coat of paint and remastered music did capture a little bit of that experience, but overall, I think I was really looking for something different rather than a straight-up remake.
Regarding FF7R, you say they 'fucked up everything that made the original great'. Hard disagree. The whispers and alternate time dimension thing were clumsy, but they opened the way for surprise and new story beats. I'm into it. It makes me excited to see what happens next, instead of just being like 'well I know what's going to happen next, but now I just have to wait for 2 years to see it.'
My problem with its "meta" commentary here is that it feels like it simply exists in the game for the sake of having it, and not for the betterment of the game itself, the characters, or the storytelling. Majority of this game feels like it is as if they're attempting to forcefully solve issues that Final Fantasy doesn't even have.
Dude, most gamers would never play the original. This game is actually marketable to non nerds
@@cordelllongstreath741 Yeah, they have deformed final fantasy for normies who like braindead action games... dont get me wrong, there are good action games with insightful combats.
I wont expect final fantasy to ever go back to be what made me fall in love with... I will just move to other games like octopath traveler.
@@jonnymario771 dude I was like 9 and beat ff7 barely knowing how materia works. I think it's great if traditionalists/conservatives move away. Gives room for the culture to grow
@@jonnymario771 I'm literally ashamed of ever calling myself a gamer. U guys are toxic
@@cordelllongstreath741 Except I played vii in my nineteens like in 2017 or some shit and expected an actual remake. Like I said, if square wants that public i wont care... i will just move to other franchises. If saying facts is being toxic, yeah Im toxic. Theres no such collective entity called "gamers", there are individuals btw.
For anyone watching this, a mini novella in ff 7 ultimania omega focusing on Aerith in the lifestream for the events leading to the movie and beyond, introduces Sephiroth Jenova tainted 'dark lifestream' (the "Stigma"). It also brings up Sephiroth's obsessions with Cloud. Toward the end, Sephiroth takes an opportunity between the Goddess Minerva (Crisis Core, not outright mentioned but implied as Minerva is tied to life stream movements and stopping Meteor with the life stream), concentration of lifestream', etc. in Midgar with Vincent and Red meeting there for the 499th time (500 years after ff7). A black rift is open by lifestream Sephiroth, the planet's "screams" react and try to close it but are having great difficulty.
Furthermore Aerith cannot enter the black portal, nor can she change it to be safe for her. Following Sephiroth is some of the tainted dark lifestream which do so by attaching to the "voices of the planet". Unable to go through herself, she tries to do what they are doing, and finds herself only able to attach to the tainted voices, melding a purple hue. It ends following the first piece of Aerith's message which finds itself in a familiar alleyway across from a flower girl crouched before a mako power conduit that is leaking. Aerith tries to call out from within the voice but it is distorted, tainted. The flower girl looks to the right, turns, and hurries to the safety of the street. 2005 that book was released. Now watch the ff7 opening of the original, PS3 tech demo, crisis core's version, and remake together. This shit was planned.
After fighting with "Enigmatic" whispers which will never attack you, Cloud being near Aerith triggers visions of the future. Ones that she seems vaguely aware of. After she fights them alongside Cloud, she is finishing sentences before hearing them and aware of names she shouldn't know, as she has received the last ditch effort of future Aerith in that novella.
The changes to the train graveyard help to emphasize this as well as force a change in time. You may notice things keep happening earlier than they are supposed to. Then the whispers delay you. Despite the longer trek through the graveyard, you are STILL too early. When you climb the fallen plate it's broad daylight. The building is in high alert outside because Reno and Rude got beaten up by and the search teams encountered Cloud so they are aware that the party is alive. Yet, you are still there earlier than expected. Early enough that Jenova/past Sephiroth is interrupted and flings Shinra off the ledge. The whispers saved him, and jenova-sephiroth came back to finish the job. Meanwhile the clone that Future Sephiroth (Cloud-Sephiroth) infected and took over, who is responsible for the show at the holo-tour, comes in to get what he needs for a true manifestation/body... Jenova itself (the second revealed body when Marco clone 49 disappears in black/purple lifestream). From there future Sephiroth now has his own body, brings them to the future when the arbiter is defeated, sucks the rest of his essence out of meteor before Minerva destroys it, and toys with Cloud before releasing them. We may or may not have preset Sephiroth to deal with.
But important to note, is future Sephiroth knows Cloud all too well. Present Sephiroth's immediate reaction to the presence of Jenova cells beyond his control is to attack, to kill, to merge, to reunion. (Marco's reaction to Cloud).
Also:. Ff7 remake ultimania has Kitase saying that ff7R was "planned during the development of Crisis Core", and that ff7R (project) is "the fifth and and final entry into the compilation." Welcome to the sequel.
I'm one of those who wanted a 1:1 remake but with expanded things like fleshing out characters more where Avalanche moments in this game is the perfect example of what I wanted expanded upon, but I didn't want it for me the most (I love the OG SO MUCH that I'll be fine either way, what people fail to even consider is remakes are often for the NEW GENERATION who won't be able to connecto to the OG and it's story and characters.
Why? Look at the graphics, I find them charming but the thing that holds back 80% of people who want to experience this story they heard SO MUCH about can't get into it because of the awkward in-between age of graphics it whas made. Most people I've heard who wanted this game never played ANY of the FF7 games and said/thought " FINALLY I can experience and aprreciate this great story. Finally I can get what all those others felt in the 90's. And most people know what happens to Aeris, they know Cloud and Sephiroth exist... but that is usually it. Most people have no idea what Sephiroths actual deal is, or the GIANT plot twist that hides behind Clouds facade.
I love this game but shed a tear for so many who most likely will never be able to actually be INVOLVED in the story. they can play it but most people now can get emotionally involved with puppet looking mfers
Rebuild of Evangelion is the perfect piece of media to compare this game with.
Because it did the same, and it has the same problems.
When you hear fans who complain about the last chapter of this game, is not that they are hating the chapter per se (although it has a lot of problems), but the direction the whole thing is taking.
We know Square, we know how much they have been milking this brand for the last 20 years, we know the quality of what they released, we know what Nomura and Nojima did with this story and characters without Sakaguchi controlling them, and yeah, we are afraid of what might happen.
We are already seeing how cynical Square is by releasing the story in 5 or maybe 7 games, just like how cynical they were with the use of Sephiroth in this game, or how cynical they are claiming only people involved in this game were responsable for the original (completely disrespecting Sakaguchi, among others).
The last chapter of the game is LITERALLY Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts, the over the top action, characters talking in riddles, the whole story being reduced to "fate, destiny, light, and darkness", etc.
They saying "this is perfect for newcomers" is yet another sign of how cynical Square has become, this game is
incomprehensible for people who didnt play the original, Crisis Core, and Advent Children...heck, there are some references to Before Crisis and Dirge of Cerberus!
Also, is not wise to insult your fans, fans who made your career, fans that just paid $60 dollars to experience this game.
Anno pretty much does that with his Rebuild movies, but trolling audiences was always the point of Evangelion, not FFVII.
You could compare what they did here with Metal Gear Solid 2, but Metal Gear Solid 2 wasnt divided in 5 or 7 parts, you cant try to "subvert expectations" at the same time you are trying to milk your brand dry, reason why I think your comparision with The Last Jedi was perfect, that was a movie that if it were a stand alone story, it would have been great, but it was a part of a franchise, and it ended up ruining the brand...trying to experiment with your art, to "subvert expectations", will always crash with the cynical idea of keep pumping sequels, and when you add to that directly insulting your fans...the result is what happened with Star Wars.
For all intents and purposes, this is Final Fantasy VII-3, but they deliberately called it "Final Fantasy VII REMAKE" to sell copies, because they know people didnt like Advent Children (VII-2), so they had to hide the fact this was a sequel.
I'm open to changes, but Nomura, Nojima, and the Square of the last 20 decades have a reputation...and a bad one at that.
The already ruined Final Fantasy VII once with the compilation.
Exactly, it's like everytime I kinda warm up to the idea that remake proposes I remember that mainline Final Fantasy hasn't delivered a good story since 12. And I just can't trust em. These creators have an aesthetic vision that so unique, and they can come up with good IDEAS but they're not goog storytellers (execution wise) imo
As someone who really likes Nomura’s work (and didn’t really care for OG FF7) it’s interesting to see everyone’s reaction to the ending, while i personally loved it and the idea of having a alt world story I do think they should have put brackets on Remake or made it clear this would be a different interpretation because it is very clearly NOT designed for newcomers and saying otherwise feels like a marketing decision
It's an pretty old video premise which was done years ago by other popular youtubers. So reserve your praise.
Y'all are real mad about a piece of media you didn't have to consume. I understand being frustrated about wasting 60 dollars but if you were so attached to the idea of the original and actually convinced yourself that after 20 years they wouldn't make a game more in line with modern Square Enix games, it's on you bro.
@@marciamakesmusic I wouldn't say I wasted my money. There's plenty of great content in the game. I'm just not really fond of the writing, and even then we'll have to wait and see because right now everything is just a promise. If you loved it, your positive about the outcome, we're not. Precisely because a lot of the reasons the main coment mentioned. And if you like Square Enix's writing then that's fine, too, but that does not make it perfect or without room to be criticized , nor does the excuse of "don't consume it"
And personally I don't mind changes so long they're good and serve a thematic purpose. This story didn't need time travel, alternate realities or infinite loops that need to be broken. Looks like they're on a crusade to make every FF the same. Timelines like in XIII-2 and VIII, loops like in type-0 and X, and enternal conflicts between forces of light and Darkness like in Dissidia. But then again, it's too early to tell.
29:57
Remake is the thing that actually made play the original more that years and years of fans screaming in my hear that it was the greatest game ever made and that it will never be surpassed by anything ever. I played it, I really liked it and then I watched the side stuff. Shot me with your best gun Nomura, I'm fucking ready for this shit now.
If it was a 1 to 1 remake I would be like "that was cool, I'll wait for the next one now" instead of being "Oh shit, this a lot more interesting now that I know this is a fucking sequel, I need to play the original right now!"
I have two issue that make the game a 9.5 for me.
First the wispers and fate stuff to not fit and you can feel that it was shoved in. They do not even fallow their own logic stoping little things while allowing whole chapters to go by with no problems. They are poorly executed. Does Shinra just randomly place explosives on highway overpasses or did the Developers need a scene to show the wispers saving the. Nothing they do makes sense and is a poorly executed narrative device
Second was that we are not given any reason to be fighting Sephiroth either than Aerith saying he is a bad man.
I loved the game and I enjoyed the ending and I do not mind changes but do not change or add things that just do not fit or your not willing to give a reason.
People say things will be explained in the sequl, but that is bad story telling. Everything should be explained and set by the first part. And all this does not excuse the poor dialogue in the final parts of the game
18:17 Oh christ, I never even considered that and now I'm convinced it's going to happen.
I've been calling it a parallelquel since finishing the story.
Square Enix literally playing 8-D chess. It's a remake, but it's also a Re:Make.
EXACTLY!
Re:make is literally what I called it after I beat it lmao
I've seen Requel thrown around and I really like how it sounds.
"Square Enix literally playing 8-D chess"
*looks at square-enix track record* uh.. pal you may wanna reel in those expectations and feelings.
@@TKUltra971 as a Kingdom Hearts fan, disappoint is something I'm used to
As I have gotten older I actually don’t mind when a game tricks me. Not in terms of quality! But more so when it comes to plot and themes. Maybe it’s because I played “MGS2 The Sons of Liberty” as a kid.
Best video on the topic I have seen so far. Thanks for that! I am still split on whether or not I like the way they ended the remake... But my biggest issue with it is still that they overused the Sephiroth character so much to render him completely without mystery.
I'm in the camp of ignoring everything else related to ff7 besides the main game as a fanfiction cash grab garbage after.
They are forever in the shadow of the success of ff7 and it shows, thank god for Yoshi P and the Drakengard director keeping the company creatively relevant.
Nomura should have got the boot a long time ago just from looking at the kingdom hearts franchise, he's a hack writer imo.
I didn't like the ending because I don't like the marvel-esque time line shenaningans story beats that they appear to be exploring, and i also felt that it was not subtle and pretty transparent and silly, as well as jumping the shark, etc. But, I will say this, I respect a dev more for having a vision and doing what they think is best for their art, rather than making that art completely malleable to the fans. I've seen a lot of games fail to produce quality, due to the devs bowing down to the community reaction. Usually, we see that in crippling accessibility design to make it have as much mass appeal as possible, in a way that hurts the depth of the game, which is why games like Dark Souls are so refreshing. So, while I'm not huge on it, I respect the devs for trying something. I guess we'll see if it winds up being any good.
Did you have some examples in mind where the art was completely malleable to the fans and resulted in worse work?
I agree that the ending seemed pretty awkward and a bit too bombastic, but having thought through it and replaying thru the game on Hard Mode - there was actually a shit tonne of explicit and subtle clues littered throughout that builds up to the finale
This 100%. They could have just made a HD version of the original, like they kinda did for most of it, and left it at that, but they created something out there and ambitious and if they didn't we'd probably not be talking about the ending right now. I like when artists just go all in on their ideas way more than when Fans are directly appeased, it's much more interesting.
@@daniellaniganohara2456 Dude they took a huge risk on the direction but for me I am so glad they did this. Think about it. Like you said, if it was just a simple 1-to-1 remake of the original plot, we'd be here twiddling our thumbs waiting for a very straightforward part 2. The hype from the anticipation of this first remake would have died down too as the characters and the world and the gameplay had finally been revealed and we'd be wayyyy less excited for this second game
@@tarutso Guild wars 2 is an example, but that ones complicated because it depends on where you look throughout the life cycle of the game and the examples are incredibly specific. An example, though, would be after GW2's first expansion, which represented a massive spike in difficulty and a huge quality improvement of the game over all. They had a vision for the game, and it was great. But there was a huge backlash at how difficult and time consuming it was so the devs did a total reversal for the next 2 years and we saw a dramatic decrease in compelling gameplay and it was directly because the artists forsook their vision to make it more accessible.
_
I am also aware of the clues and all the set up and all the analysis of the ending. I predicted what was happening on my first playthrough of the game, when I realized the plot ghosts were forcing events in the church to play out like they did in the original. Once I saw that (second time you met aerith) I had figured out was going on and was not happy. I, at no point, liked anything regarding the stupid plot ghosts, the ending of the game, or the timeline shenanigans. I get that it's planned out, but that does not mean I think it's good. I think it's trite and dumb, personally. That said, the devs can take this in any direction they want and I encourage them to follow their vision. I don't expect anything out of it though. If it sucks, I will not be surprised. But it could be good! They have me interested enough to buy at least the second one
@@StarlightDragon Thanks for the good example re GW2. Interesting. In that vein perhaps WoW might be an example too... making it perhaps overly accessible and casual and losing that gritty difficulty that vanilla had, hence the success of Classic
Re the plot. What exactly did you figure out and that you think Remake is about...? Not to be coy here, but honestly, I don't think anyone apart from the devs truly know what the fk is going on
As someone who didn't play FF7 before and finished FF7R the only thing I didn't get was the ending, it was confusing. Not to say it was bad it was just too vague but I can only assume was much clearer for someone who played the original.
In fact I loved FF7R so much that I bought and started playing the original as I wanted to see the rest of the story and spend more time with the characters. I can't wait for the next parts of FF7R.
“Some other Nomura subtitle like, ‘Reborn’”
The next part of the remake series is named Rebirth, he called it ladies and gentlemen.
You know what's weird, is everyone talks about rebuild like it was always intended to be a remake. But I remember GOING into the movies, with the notion that it was supposed to be a "reboot" or even sequel of some kind, with the implication being that it was going to take the original story in a new, unknown direction. My only disappointment was, after finishing the first one, that it appeared to be the exact same story we had already seen, with only hints at possible changes. With the end of 2, I was SUPER ecstatic about the prospect of the new direction they were taking the story, especially since I was never super happy with the original endings (especially the ending of the anime). The third one kinda lost me, as it went a _really_ weird direction and I'm not sure what exactly they are planning with it. They did this whole sea fairing thing, and all the characters are supposed to be adults now... but they still have the physicality of their kids selves... despite the fact that I thought those anime "kids" always looked like adults to begin with... I don't know, it just felt a little skeezy and creepy to me, the whole thing.
Just to be clear, I was hoping for a new direction for the story from the very beginning, but I guess I was hoping for something more optimistic than what the sea story was and more optimistic than the original story for sure. Maybe I should go back and give it another chance.
Somebody in a video essay they did about the movies said it best and it went something along the lines of anno not really making the movies to please any fan expectations or give them the ending or closure that they wanted but instead introducing more things to mull over and subversions to seemingly "good" changes they made to the plot. Evangelions original ending was supposed to be the de facto ending of the series for all intents and purposes but no one was happy with that one which is why every thing afterwards only seems to serve to make it more and more messed up.
@@megasoniczxx you got a link to the video essay? I would like to watch it
@@StarlightDragon It's been a while but I think this was the one th-cam.com/video/rHIvs0Q-uKI/w-d-xo.html
@@megasoniczxx thanks!
To be continue in FF7 Dream Drop Distance 2....
Joking aside, i really hope we don't have to fight 7 septhiroth.
At the absolute most there’s 3, but that’s highly unlikely.
At this point who care as Cloud had already over come him
Honestly, if they made this a 1 to 1 remake I think ppl would just get bored of waiting and just play the original. The only thing people could say about it is “Oh man, the graphics/Voice work really made this scene stand out.” Where now, with this sequelish game people have a lot to talk about good and bad. But everyone is waiting for the sequel. (Unless you just ditched the series, in that case more power to you). Personally, I fell in love with ff7 twice now
I'm shocked you don't have more views man. Really solid work.
This whole discussion is moot. There's no point in talking about the boundaries or the lack there of of remakes as a whole. The problem with FF7 Remake is that it cheapens the story of the original. For no freaking reason. Remove the ghosts and the whole last section and you have a good game. With it though, this is yet another Tetsuya Nomura BS Kingdom Hearts level plot.
Honestly the best part of all of this is that people are acknowledging Ehrgeiz once again.
Oh, one more thing....
If it weren't for Nomura, everyone in FF7 aside from Cloud and the other two members in your party would've died.
I need a PlayStation that can play my Final Fantasies... and Ehrgeiz!
WAIT IS THAT LAST LINE FOR REAL?!
@@Ramsey276one The devs originally were going to let you pick 2 party members and kill off everyone else in the return to Midgar. Nomura objected and it was changed to just Aerith.
J L he did so because he felt it would have much more impact and feel much more surprising out of any death if I remember correctly
I love seeing people talk out of their ass and criticize him and Kingdom Hearts when Kingdom Hearts is a mishmash of Final Fantasy tropes and FF7 wouldn't be what it is today without Nomura
@@JL-tr7wq WHOA...
O_o
DARK SOULS RUN!
I can totally understand the problems with the marketing, but in retrospect, i’ve looked at “Remake” being more of a subtitle implying that a certain character is remaking the timeline, as an effect of the ending of AC, I’m hoping that in the future, in retrospect, it will have been a good thing and a great story
You don't seem pretentious or arrogant or snobbish at all. I personally find you the more levelheaded and moderate of the fanbase. Part of why I like you as a reviewer.
Strange as it may be my number one issue with story changes in FF7R actually isnt in how it ends, but how it begins.
In FF7, you blow up a reactor. That has consequences, people are hurt, scared, and many die, and the game constantly has characters who say its for the greater good but it becomes apparent immediately when you get to Corel and in the desert prison that Barret is just settling a grudge and pretending its about the planet, and even is called out for it later by Cait Sith. There's a serious nuance to it about sacrificing lives for the greater good, about motivations behind actions and the right thing for wrong reasons or wrong thing for right reasons, and makes it clear from the getgo that you aren't just the hero in all this mess, and while this isn't a consistently discussed theme, its a big part of Barret's character arc.
In 7R however, Shinra just does it themselves with your explosion being used as a setup for them to blow it up themselves and scapegoat you for a bigger, more nefarious plan. Now Shinra is just big evil megacorp and your party the side of justice, and I hate that. It feels oddly regressive considering 7 was ahead of its time on presenting story like that.
FINALLY
I've been thinking that since the beginning, I was like "you just made the "good" guys good"
I thought the original started with cloud blowing up the reactor to get some pussy and barret was his wing man
I personally don't like what he did to Kindgom Hearts and thought he ruined the narrative after the first game. I don't think Nomura is malicious, I think he's capable a great work, but he needs to be controlled and restricted otherwise he'll do a bunch of stupid shit because he thinks it's cool or smart.
Edit: I know Nomura is not the only driving force of the games he takes part in. From Disney's meddling with KH3, Square's mismanagement with FF15, and other writers and co-directors in general.
@Grima the Fell Dragon Yes. Nomura is an adorable cat that everyone loves, but constantly scratches the couch the longer he stays on it until it's completely ruined.
There were two other directors on the game. I hardly think it's fair to pin all the blame/praise depending on how you feel, entirely on him. But people are still butt hurt over Kingdom Hearts, so they just take it out on him.
Agree, but I have read somewhere that Kitase is actually the main writer of FF7R.
Still, knowing how bullcrap KH story became, I have 0 faith in FF7R, and will definitely not buy them at launch.
(This, and also because of too much tedious filler).
What happens in FF7R is not a just Nomura. Hell, after learning about On the way to a smile. A book Nojima wrote in 2009 that FF7R uses some ideas/themes from. I think this was always the direction they wanted to do of they remade. If you look up On the way to a smile lifestream. That chapter literally explains how Sephiroth and Arieth know the events of the future in FF7R. And it's not necessarily time travel at all. So I believe this was always the plan. Not just Nomura.
@Grima the Fell Dragon ok fine that's alright. Literally my ONLY goal now when talking about this game is to let ppl know its NOT just Nomura's fault. If ppl gonna hate on it. Share the blame.
Imagine wiping your arse with your flagship product to make a "statement"
, Just admit you messed up and apologize to the original fan base
Nintendo: *makes Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask Remakes but only adds new minor details*
Square Enix with FF7R: *”So anyway I started changing!”*
Nintendo completely botched the Majora remake
Nintendo completely botched the Majora remake
FF VII RE:MAKE Fragments of Unions Children 4/1/4 Final complete mix.
This will be the name of the final product.
Hilarious and original joke
Also Starring Knuckles
You seem to sidestepping the reason why many people wanted a remake in the first place. Because they found Final Fantasy VII og difficult to go back to because graphics. Also the translation wasn't the best. A good story can stand on its own two feet regardless of the time and context. That's why classic films and books are still relevant. The reasons they give are just stupid focusing on surprise and subversion as if they are the most important things about a story. A classic is never out of date. They should have focused on conserving the good and best parts of the original but they didn't entirely do that, did they? As a result they are splitting the audience. The original has a better story but the remake has better graphics, voice acting, characterization, and an action combat system.
wrong
I'm craving a new video from you right now Mr. Foxcade
I have something coming in a few days and a bunch of videos in the work :)
@@Foxcade thank you for making my week and more :)
I think the word you're searching for is "reboot" to describe FF7R, it's essentially setting up a brand new series of events in an alternate universe version of FF7.
I love how you tried to be diplomatic about this, it's a really great video. BUT there's ONE thing everyone ignores: WHY we wanted an FF7 Remake.
Demands for an FF7 remake date back to the PS2 and with a very specific reason: It is the *ONLY* game in the entire series which does not hold up visually and this was preventing newcomers from playing it. FF6 still looks good today, FF8 still looks good today. FF7? It has a charm to it but it's hard to take the little Lego people seriously. All the time fans would try to get others to play FF7 and they'd go "Eh...but it looks so BAD though..." and so they really wished it would get remade on PS2 and that demand grew louder with that PS3 tech demo.
You can say "Well who cares about people who can't get over the original's graphics, it's their loss" except no, it's the fan's loss. They can't share the game they love with others because the poor visuals get in the way. FF7 came out in a time of rapid technological evolution and its graphics were outdated 2 years after it came out. Now some would say "Just play the PC version with mods" but not only is that a NEW thing that few people know about but the mods are difficult to use and buggy. I...firmly believe Square Enix now more than ever thanks to the Remake NEEDS to do an official version of FF7 with mods.
Because the remake is indeed having a negative effect on the original too. Many people bought this expecting it to be the best way to experience FF7 only to...not experience FF7 and get the game spoiled for them. The writing for the Final Fantasy series has been in the trash for years now so when they get to the writing COMPLETELY crapping the bed in the final hour they don't go "Oh that's the weird new stuff", they just assume this was what happened in the original and have no clue why people are FURIOUS...and then we get a bunch of pundits saying that the fans are whiny babies and the newcomes just assume the change must have been super minor when it is in fact NOT.
ALSO we need to take into account the fact that the remake's meta narrative can be interpreted as telling the fans to go kill themselves and forcing them to do it and kill their favorite game along with it. This may not have been how YOU interpreted it and it's not how *I* interpreted it, but I've seen some people interpret it this way and I can't really argue with it. It's an unfortunately valid interpretation.
And...for the record...it did NOT help that they called Easy Mode with Auto Battle "Classic Mode". That...that STUNG to the poor turn-based fans. I feel REALLY bad for them.
One of my biggest issues with this whole thing is they absolutely stretched out a 5 hour section of the original Into a 40 hour slow endever. If they wanted to do this meta commentary thing they could have fleshed it out over the game (one whisper here and there doesn’t count). So most of the game feels like filler then the final hour or so feels like a total acid trip.
Also since the wispers are never consistent about when they intervene like stoping Aerith from falling from one story but allowing Cloud to attack an armory depo with Jessie only to then show up the next day ravaging sector 7 just to injure Jesdie.
Many of the scenes could have been left out or explained with out the ghosts. One of the silliest things is that they invent situations for the wispers to show up.
Like why does shinr have remote explosives set on a random highway overpass. That little scene make zero sense
they focused more on Medgar and i think that was a good decision we got to see more of the city.
12:46 He is the chosen one
This video helped me confront my grief over the remake’s direction. Thank you.
For real though, I think the OG FF7 is so important to so many people, this remake thing was always going to be an emotional and tricky thing to handle, regardless of how it went. I went through confusion, then anger regarding what they added in to the game, then I accepted it, and then gradually got used to the idea of Whispers and changing destiny, and now I'm actually really excited and also happy that I got to play this game. I feel that it actually does respect the source material, without trying to replace it. Aside from the forced walking sections and loading squeeze corridors, it did what I wanted and more.