A Brief 2 1/2 Hour Discussion about Final Fantasy 7 Remake
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 เม.ย. 2020
- Grabbed some friends to scream and shout about the new "Remake" of one of the most important video games of all time.
Codex Entry:
/ codexentry
/ codexentry
Super Butter Buns:
/ superbutterbuns
/ superbutterbuns
Mr. Clemps:
/ mrclemps
/ mrclemps - เกม
I thought Barret’s constant struggle with heights was a great touch when you consider his backstory
His buds do have a habit of falling from great heights xD. Though they do have a decent survival rate. I'd still think twice before mountain climbing with the guy though lol
I didn't even think about that! Great connection there.
By backstory do you mean what happened in corel ?
YuzukiEba yes, when he was holding Dyne atop the ravine. It almost assuredly gave him major vertigo for years to come
@@Arcadio_Castellanoz yea i see. Its weird since he didnt actually fall down himself but its fine at least theres a kind of explanation
I feel like Tifa was always kinda supposed to be a bit meek. It was kinda an on going thing that the traits you would usually associate with Tifa and Aerith based on their appearances/first impressions were actually for the other.
Like Tifa looks like a badass (and still kinda is) but is actually kinda timid and shy. While Aerith looks like a Disney princess but is constantly sassy/sarcastic and forceful.
Pretty interesting contrast honestly
What sold me on this Tifa was when Cloud was fully ready to just off Johnny cause he was a snitch and Tifa’s reaction was actual fear and uncertainty.
@@TheShadowslayer1000 Well yeah. I mean Cloud was without hesitation about to murder a dude he didn't know for possibly snitching on a group he didn't even really care about.
It is supposed to be this way
she was rather meek in the first game, though its a lot more apparent in the remake.
Tifa is supposed to be meek but strong... but people seem to forget the meek part.
@@Maioly Looking back, Tifa's first impressions as a martial artist and Cloud's contact in Avalanche didn't do her justice all throughout. Her very theme when she's introduced reflects her personality under her kung fu fighting: wistful, cozy, soft. She can and will fight, but she's a deeper person than just a brawler with ki-fueled Limit Breaks.
I agree with the OP about Aerith too; she's the messianic corner of Cloud's love triangle but like... she criticizes him if he messes up the barrel usage rescuing her, joins in threatening Don Corneo's loins, and more. It's just her duty to the Lifestream and her first impression as this mystically pure woman beneath a rotting pizza of a city.
"I hate how Wedge is just used as a fat joke"
"he bounces off other people well"
"But, he does get more well-rounded near the end."
Wedge can take it. He's got some thick skin.
Magic Warrior if he did, he wouldn’t have got his ass bitten.
I feel they fleshed him out, added some meat to his narrative.
I thought there was a lot to him. More than most people in the game.
My dude was remembering Tifa so wrong. She has always been meek and lacking conviction until a certain point
Do you ever have issues wiping the saliva off your own chin?
I agree. Tifa was not this bonfide badass everyone seems to remember her as. Tifa jumped off the train first because cloud didn't know what was happening yet and barret was arrogant and said "leader always stays until the end" he was never scared to jump.
There's a lot of head canon from ff7 original that the remake had to combat I think
Robert what?
Tifa, while a competent fighter, was VERY meek...she didn't share much and was quite reserved about her feelings....Aerith picked up on this quickly, but knew that she (Aerith) wasn't a long-term threat....she made sure to be Tifa's friend more than anything...and after Aerith departs from the party, THAT is when Tifa starts to have a backbone and more conviction.
@@karthisplays "Tifa jumped off the train first because cloud didn't know what was happening yet and barret was arrogant and said "leader always stays until the end" he was never scared to jump."
That doesn't change the point that Tifa still jumped off the train without needing someone else's assurance. I think a lot of people here are conflating a reserved personality trait with meekness, which is causing a lot of confusion about the criticism regarding certain decisions concerning TIfa's character in the remake.
I really loved how Aerith was portrayed on screen. Later media had her being this pure soul, but I appreciated how she was a goofball and cursed!
Do you ever imagine yourself making love to her?
I think her being "pure" is perfectly fine, but the goofiness really does supplement her character.
@@Robert-tl2vg ... You okay, man?
Honestly, people don't even think about where she came from:
She lives in a shitty part of town, a short walk away from a literal red-light district, with a single mother.
She's a street kid!
There wasn’t cursing for her in the original game but she was nowhere near as pure as ppl made her to be in the the original. Those guys haven’t actually played it or just don’t remember at all.
Normies: Who would discuss FF7 for 2 and 1/2 hours at 3am?
Foxcade: Oh boy, 3 am!
I feel you, 4 am here
"Boys seem to have podcasts nowadays"
The Sephiroth in this remake is Advent Children one. He knows what will happen and he is changing the timeline to make it how he wants. Also Aerith later knows this as well. She gives hints though out the game about the future.
They made that clear in the intro of the game. Even the first key art of the game gave it away. Look closely at the first cutscene when one winged angel kicks in when the camera is zoomed on aerith. She’s running away because she feel sephiroth’s presence. That why the ghosts bring her to cloud. Sephiroth is already fucking with things.
Also: The first time you encounter sephiroth as cloud, what music is playing right after the cutscene? A track from advent children, that’s deliberate 😉
I love this way of story telling.
@@awesomegenome6883 It's not just that. he deliberately pulls you aside because you're supposed to meet Aerith, who by the time we get to her is getting harrassed by the Whispers. Because Sephiroth delayed Cloud enough that Aerith was going to leave without meeting him. When she tries to stay they force her to run. Sephiroth even starts his manipulation here telling Cloud that he can't save her, messing with his mental state and likely being the reason he tries to kill Reno after his fight at the church when he meets her again. He knows how to fuck with cloud and he knows how events are supposed to play out.
I think the complaints about Tifa's timidness are overblown. She's supposed to be to a large extent. Case in point, did we all forget that she spends the majority of the original game's narrative feeling too scared and timid just to call Cloud out on his BS false memories? And it's not as if that was the sort of issue that potentially results in taking innocent lives. So if she couldn't even do that, her timidness and hesitation towards other events and situations in this game seems like a natural, perfectly reasonable, & logical extension to what was already confirmed about her personality many years ago.
I agree 100%. Tifa, as someone who fights with her fists, being afraid of intangible ghosts makes perfect sense. And in FF7's world, where the lifestream exists, it makes sense that ghosts exist. Souls that have not rejoined the lifestream can easily be what ghosts are.
Heavily disagree. There’s a difference between her not confronting cloud the only other survivor over his trauma a background element until the end and her constantly wavering resolve that’s in the remake. Like Clemps I’m not up and arms over it but I did enjoy her less here. And saying things like she’s ascared cause she can’t punch ghost is just ridiculous
@@PunishedPrince I always found that a really poor explanation for why Tifa would stay silent on something so important to the games plot. And it wasn't just Tifa who was nervous about the ghosts, even Cloud was on edge.
But this is ultimately just a difference of opinion. To me it fits how I viewed Tifa from the original. So we just have different views on her personality.
They went overboard on alot in terms of character traits. They amplified Jessie's thrist levels, Tifa's inconsistent timid shyness, and Aerith's quirkiness so now she feels like an Anime girl. "Did you miss me:))".. like NO I'm fighting Sephiroth.. leave me alone you're ruining the tension. I will agree it's really dumb that she's afraid to punch a ghost yet she had no problem fighting a disgusting looking hentai monster in the sewers lol.
@@AquilaGuard Not for nothing, but this is apparently how the creators themselves viewed Tifa from the original as well. But this speaks to a broader issue of something this remake was inevitably going to do. OG FFVII for better or for worse, leaves a lot open to interpretation and the imagination due to the hardware limitations of it's time. So now that the original creators of the game can depict their own original vision much more clearly and accurately, the end results leads to fans getting upset when the blanks they were free to fill in for themselves years ago end up conflicting with the creators own intended interpretations. It works out great when your own personal beliefs and interpretations end up falling in line with the creators intent, but when it doesn't, it can sting. Especially if after so many years, these interpretations end up transforming into stone cold objective facts and beliefs. It's not easy to just cast your beliefs aside and accept someone else's truth--even if that truth is from the creators themselves.
I would love Clamps and Maximillian Dood need to have a discussion, I think they would take a lot away from that conversation.
yes I completely agree.
Third. Also in reference to the dissidia seph idea. He is sorta right since if you side by side both final CvS fights Seph blocks omnislash in FF7R
I could argue that Tifa’s new apprehension is justified given what happened in Nibelheim. Clemps said himself how motherly a character Tifa is. I don’t think it’s a stretch by any means to show her worry about collateral damage in the course of their mission when she knows firsthand how much ruin Shinra can wreck on personal lives through the razing of Nibelheim and the murder of her father.
Her attitude changes after the plate collapses because she’s finally realized that Shinra’s never gonna stop their corruption and gaslighting, and I think it had to be done that way in a Midgar-only story to make her a more three dimensional character. I wouldn’t have wanted her to act the same way the whole time with what was going on
@@Arcadio_Castellanoz agreed; but I think they could have preserved that intent without making her come off as meek. Tifa is a reserved and conscientious person; that doesn't necessarily translate to meekness you know what I'm saying? The original understood that a bit better
@@sonicsenryaku6205 i think it needs to be said that, tifa is "playing" a cheerfull character, she wants to belive things will be hopeful if she help keep the morale... but that's all fake, and you can see the cracks when cloud almost kill johnny. and then again when cloud almost kill marco. she never really loses her high spirit, but she does become less "fluffy" as the remake progress.
@@sonicsenryaku6205 I wouldn't call her meek. She is far from it. Even on the first one she is very reserved and not very outgoing personality wise it's why she can never express Cloud how she feels about him openly, even during the we bang ok? Scene under the Highwind
@@Plasmacat1 I'm not calling Tifa as a whole a meek person; I'm saying that some of her presentation in ff7r makes her come off as more timid and meek in certain situations rather than being the daring and courageous spirit that she is. As clemps pointed out, in the original, Tifa is first to jump out of the train while in the remake, she's extremely hesitant to do so. There's no reason to make this change just because the writers want her ambivalence regarding their terrorist actions to be more apparent. They could keep still keep those character moments of the original while still writing in these newer ones. Trust me, I know a big part of Tifa's character is the very duality of her tough nature in contrast to her more softer side. I just think the remake could have done a better job portraying that sometimes. The remake does a commendable job with Tifa and I'm proud of the handling of her characterization overall, but there are areas where I think they stumbled a bit is all
"This shouldn't be your first jump into the series"
welp, that was me. now im playing the original and things are beginning to make a lot more sense lol.
See, I disagree. I see where they're coming from, as knowing the OG will contextualize it more, but this does stand alone as it's own story.
Yeah no idea why you wouldn’t want to make this your first of the series. I mean if it is, cool, you have an awesome game that expands on the characters so much more than the original.
It just stops that at what would be the first 6 hours of the original. Also don’t worry, even “vets” of the series are confused about the ending. If you didn’t get what was going on prior to being introduced to a black haired cloud lookalike, I don’t know what to say.
Enjoy your first play through
@@fy4b230 I'll have to disagree, i have a friend who is playing FF7 remake at the moment and is having a hard time following several details because of how messy square-enix is presenting plot and characters this time around.
Yes play the original first
Interesting conversation about the game. I personally don't agree with some of the hot takes you guys had, but to each their own. I think there should have been more monsters in the dungeons instead making them shorter. I also do agree some of the side quest is like boring busy work, but I think it does help with some world building.
Disagree about clouds parry. The tutorial for it says it can’t do long range and can’t do magic only physical then puts you up against the elites fast physical guys basically telling you to block and wait for the parry and then with chapter 2 with the riot shield guys.i have seen most people not use the parry right and I think it just comes down to forgetting the small details in everything going on. And the que for attack in a lot of cases are the names of the attacks showing up on screen which admittedly can def be done better
I think they were talking about parry that happens right after you change the stance, not the one which happens when you use a block =)
Михаил Давтян If they’re talking about that ability, you can legit throw it in the middle of combos so that an enemy doesn’t interrupt you. It’s worked wonders for me.
Thanks for letting me on, man! Had so much fun talking to you all about this.
I feel like by the end we were all weary adventurers. Lemme know if you ever need me again!
Clemps, on your point about the "softening" of Tifa; I fully agree with you. Now granted, i don't think it's the worse thing that could happen to her characterization in this remake, but it's still a huge bummer. I'm actually surprised when you guys were discussing how the narrative could have portrayed Tifa's ambivalence with the bombings (while simultaneously communicating her strength and resolve as a person), that you yourself didn't bring up the fact that those conditions were already satisfied in the scene where she displayed concern for all those citizens on the train.
There was no need to make her character feel so outwardly meek and timid afterwards throughout the rest of the game for the sake of having her be the moral compass of the group, as all the narrative had to do if it wanted to make Tifa the moral center of avalanche was do what it had done up until the jumping out the train scene: illustrate Tifa's reservations and nervousness about killing people outright as well as her saving people whenever she could; but, when it was time to get shit done, she would put her game face on and show her proactive, professional, and most of all, outwardly fearless side. Presenting such a duality in Tifa's persona would have made for compelling characterization (kinda how the original FF7 used her motherly nature to contrast with her indomitable exterior as a fighter). Taking this approach would have easily satisfied the conditions of using Tifa's apprehension to establish a moral compass for the group's actions while simultaneously preserving her gung-ho courageousness in the face of adversity by having her jump of the train first and kick plenty of ass. This would have also maintained the contrast between Tifa and Barrett's attitudes as avalanche member in that while the latter is hotheaded and thinks less about the casualties due to his thirst for vengeance against Shinra, Tifa's level-headness (despite all her trauma) prompts her to reduce as many casualties as she can.
Yea, we get that the whole point of Tifa's character is that on the outside she's strong, level-headed and assertive, but that deep down she's a wounded, shy, and reserved person; but 1. we as the players are not supposed to know all that just yet and 2. she doesn't have to be portrayed as being meek and waifu-y just to get that across. We all know that she's the ultimate waifu, but that doesn't mean she should be presented as such, feel me? I really think that fudged that part of her characterization, and while i agree with the general sentiment that making character changes for the benefit of the improving the cast's dynamic is a noble one, this wasn't a change that HAD to happen to just to get that across (as i just clearly explained). I guess this is just my long-winded way of saying that i think you had a compelling argument and you really could have sold your point further had you mentioned Tifa's scenes on the train before the jump; how she could have been portrayed as still being the first to jump while keeping in line with the ambivalence the remake's narrative wants Tifa to explicitly display. The thing is, Tifa was always ambivalent, even the original, that's why she ran the bar most of the time; she just didn't show it much when she was missions, and that was part of the complexity in her characterization in the original. We would see visible hints of Tifa's reserved and contemplative demeanor. but she wouldn't outwardly wear it on her selves unless she was around Cloud
Clemps I agreed with you about Tifa. I liked how Tifa and Aerith were both very sweet, but Tifa was more direct and had an edge. 👍🏽
Damnit, Clemps! I just wrote a long response to your issues on the Hollywood like changes to certain characters fates and how that removes the major theme of loss. I don't want to copy/paste it here, but I'll just sum it up as:
I think Nomura has been on a thing about death and sleep being very closely related. And there are times when you have a perfect dream that makes you feel like everything is right, only to wake up in the middle of it before it's finished and realize none of it was real. There's suddenly a hole of emotions that maybe you were avoiding acknowledging but now exist in stark contrast to what you had moments before. We already have that on a meta-level of waking up from the many dreams of a faithful remake and this game is going very loud on meta.
(That actually expanded on my original comment because I'm remembering Chirithy's very explicit dialogue.)
I cannot wait for you to make a video on this Clemps. Love your videos
Clemps I completely disagree with you and the people who replied about Tifa, but it's fine
Well I heavily disagree with some of your points. But oh well. Characters are finally portrayed like in the original. I hated how other media portrayed Aerith like a saint and how Cloud like an emo. Barret in this game is honestly one of my favorite characters ever. He's so relatable. Also, ending is already explained in the Easy Allies spoilercast and Ultimania that was released today.
Agreed. I disagreed with most of everything they said. They are going out of their way to nit-pick at things.
Whilst the bit of new players saying "Who was that cat?" was funny, I'm surprised none of you thought Cait-Sith ruined the scene he showed up in. Sector 7 Plate is collapsing, people are screaming, we see Wedge clutching his cats unable to move as rubble falls towards him - and then it cuts to a little sonic-OC-doll who drops to his knees and punches the ground.
It really is a bizarre addition to the scene, and a complete failure to inform new players that Reeve is upset about this. Why they didn't just show Reeve himself doing this from inside the Shinra HQ is beyond me.
yeah as a newcomer to the game that one fucking bitchslapped me into oblivion. it's a shame because overall the aftermath of the plate collapse is extremely emotional, but cait sith there wasn't great
Also about Tifa, I think that maybe Clemp's Interpretation may be a localization original thing, since in Japanese, they always do portray her with more silk than steel from what I've heard.
Top tier lineup there. Having my favourite TH-camrs actually saves me time. Watching one 2h30 video instead of many 45mn ones
I didn’t get the impression that Tifa was too timid at all. There are even some new scenes that show she is confident she can take care of herself (“You’ve seen how much ass I can kick!”).
She served as an important voice of compassion and reality check on the consequences of AVALANCHE’s actions, and I think her characterization was perfect. She manifests her strength by not only kicking Shinra ass, but caring for the impact on innocent bystanders.
finally someone who gets it! the way she’s written in the remake is the way she was intended to be in the original, same with aerith and cloud and all the other characters.
Stardust9898 Yeah, she’s strong and courageous when it comes to fighting and physical danger, but also second-guesses herself a lot. Overcoming this tendency is a critical part of her character arc.
I can't even imagine how nuts the Gold Saucer will look whenever we get there.
I know they said no serious DLC but FUCK Gold Saucer DLC would make the time between games pass a lot quicker.
when Aerith "Shit!". so cool and unexpected
It felt super canon when she said it
Regarding Tifa's fear of ghosts, did you guys have the same reaction when Barrett was hesitant to traverse the pipe near the ventilation fans? There are plenty of moments where tough characters show a sense of weakness. Even Cloud says he doesn't like ghosts. I think it's an unfair assessment in my opinion. Every character has a moment where they act out of character. Think of it as not being 1 dimensional.
Edit: I get that the train yard slowed the narrative down. At that point, Tifa was still skeptical about what Corneo said about the pillar, so perhaps a sense of urgency wasn't as high as if Corneo didn't have a reputation of lying and manipulating people. Cause and effect.
It isnt so much about Tifa being scared of ghosts as much as this was another thing that softened Tifa's character, like how Cloud had to help her jump out of the train where in the OG she was the one who jump first. If she didnt have moments that made her frequently hesitant, the ghost thing would not be a concern.
@@Foxcade I get what you're saying, I personally didn't feel like her characterization took a hit as a result. There's moments where Tifa and Aerith took down Corneo's goons and Aerith was pretty much in awe with how badass Tifa was, or how Tifa went to retrieve the security card at the Shinra HQ lobby. I think her tough moments balanced well with her more vulnerable moments, but that's just me.
Yeah, I hear you. Like Clemps said, not a major problem, just a tiny bother. Some in the comments are treating it like he was shitting on the game when it was a tiny personal gripe.
Gotta disagree with the gambit system thing you all seemed to be hyped on. I do not like that idea. It would make switching less necessary which was part of the fun imo. I’d be so pissed if Aerith spends an ATB on a magic spell when I need her to heal me Etc etc. that being said, sometimes the non active members move towards an enemy when I position them far away and that gets annoying.
Yeah there are a lot of big fixes they need to make in Part 2 (e.g. character positioning, especially Aerith running to Nebraska after I drop Arcane Ward) but Gambits are NOT the solution. I almost gagged when they said that. The game would play itself at that point. It kind of worked for XII, would not work at all for VII R.
1:32:00 I get what you guys are saying here, but when it comes to Wedge, Biggs and Jessie I don't think them living or dying really changes anything. For one, literally the only thing I remember about Jessie was that she was the one who kept getting her foot stuck. That was it. Not ever her name, didn't even realize she was a girl because of the sprites and how little anyone talks about any of them. Biggs and Wedge were the other two guys who die. They had basically no characterization in the original and left little to no impact on the actual story. Second, Tiffa and Baret's major losses happen way before the game starts and neither of them even bring up the other members of Avalanche who died after you leave Midgar. Functionally, nothing really changes if the three of them managed to survive.
I'm actually really excited to potentially see more of these characters. Even if they're mainly there to fly the Highwind once you get the airship. Honestly, I think the reason this seems to annoy people so much is because 1. It's a deviation from the original story, but more importantly, 2. we had been braced for it for the whole game. Even as you're getting know them better and (presumably) like them more in the back of our minds we knew they were going to die by the end of the game. It even looks like they totally died just like we expected them to... until they didn't.
Also, speaking to the themes of death in this, the unexpectedness of the death doesn't really hit home anymore because we all knew it was gonna happen. Same with the Sephiroth in this game there was no point in doing the slow burn because everyone already knows he's the big bad of the series. It was executed flawlessly in the original and does a tremendous job of setting up his menace, but even if the remake did the same thing, beat for beat we can all see it coming now so it doesn't have the same "Who the hell is this guy!?" vibe anymore. With the way they did this he essentially has that back. We had the moment. The moment where cloud is supposed to kill Sephiroth and he just said "No." and blocked it. Cloud was at his Advent Children best in that moment and Sephiroth still batted away what should have been the killing blow. Like, as someone who has played the game, made him WAY more threatening than he ever could have been otherwise. We're clearly changing the fundamental themes that this story is going to be dealing with and that is going to fundamental change how certain events play out.
Base PS4: The game runs incredible, not a single frame drop ever. So yeah, way too optmized. The game prioritizes some graphics here and not so many there to keep the FPS consistent.
only frame drop I had was the ULTRA DETAIL cutscene toards the end where the individual hairs were blowing in the breeze
“Started out with Final Fantasy IX when I was a little boy”.
...Jesus I’m old. I was a little boy when Final Fantasy II (IV) on the SNES came out lol
I love your avatar man!
Just the perfect length of a video I needed during the quarantine :)
Haha. Please take my spare time, anyone! My ps4 has broke at the worst time :( so I'm going insane
It's honestly funny as much as this game divides the community, the love that square put in this game compared to the last couple of ff games is night and day
They still put love into the games the problem with 13 and 15 was that there were a lot of Development issues them people were taken off 15 to help with 13 then by the time they went back to 15 the PS4 was ready for being developed on so they switched., by this point 15 was a decade old and they were told just force it out as it was costing to to much.
15 was doomed on release because it was forced out as they lost so much trying to develop it.
I don't think a lot of people realize that in the ending zack was an alternate timeline zack
Many people noticed that and that's the exact reason they are mad. Multiverse = nothing matters, simple as it is. How many Zacks out there, how many Gaias out there? If the meteor destroys the Gaia from FF7 remake, why should I care? If Aeris died in FF7, why should I care? That was Aeris 1, who knows about Aeris 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6?
probably because there was almost 0 reason to assume that and the game literally didn't bother to communicate that unless you've already read into the entire extended universe of 7.
I have to disagree here. Everything happens the exact same way as the OG and Crisis Core with Zack. He defeats the first wave and goes on to carry Cloud. He doesn't get shot until he's carry Cloud in the rain........which it leads right up to. There's still no reason to believe he's alive or its an alternate timeline.
R It’s probably not a multiverse. It’s probably A future Sephiroths conscience melding with his present day self. When Og game Sephiroth dies his body went back to the planet and some how he gained knowledge on how to manipulate time. Same goes for Aerith. That’s why they both know the future.
I don’t think there is multiple versions like the Marvel Universe.
It probably works like back to the future but instead of seeing your older self in the past you are your older self in the past with your same conscience
@@erikinhd13 There's two kinds of time-travel in mainstream media, the "static" type (Terminator): time line remains untouched even if you go back and forward (the hardest to work with). And the "moving" type (back to the future): time line is constantly changing and branching around. And lastly, the most boring kind, the current scientific theory that time-travel can only works forwards, you can only travel to the future, it's impossible to travel to the past. Not all mainstream products uses it, but there's a very famous manga who recently performed a time-forward (and I believe more stories will start to adapt this pseudo "realistic" theory).
Saying that, it's pretty much clear how the FF7 time line is about the "moving" type, because the events of this remake are connected/conflicting with the original. And when Cloud and his anime gang destroys the plot ghosts, the ripple-effect is seeing in the alternative time-line were Zack is alive. So, there's at least 3 branched verses in this multiverse: FF7, FF7R and Zack's past. If Nomura tries to unite all the time-lines, he will fail spectacularly because this is extremely hard to do even for the most talented writers (rick and morty for example, their writers don't dare to use time travel). And if Nomura doesn't try to unite the timelines, then nothing will matter anymore (like I mentioned in my first comment). Do you see why writers usually avoids this gimmick? Because it creates a dead end.
Just my two cents, this was my first exposure to FF7, and finishing it this weekend I am so stupid hyped to explore more of this universe. I started the original on Switch yesterday and am already figuring out which game to tackle after that.
Edit: Wow people are angry about this game.
Go finish the original and youll be disgusted with the remake
Or they might have a greater appreciation for it. Not everyone needs to hate the game.
@@Foxcade Not everyone likes being teased about a remake since the PS2 era and then totally lied to about what the game was supposed to be either.
@@AmorFati777X Except they never did. Not only is it *literally* a remake, not a remaster, but in every single interview, they told us it wasn't a remaster. It was it's own continuity. Shit, even on the PS store, it says 'reimagining.'
Just because you fear change doesn't mean everyone has to.
@@TheDapperDragon spare me your pretentious weeabo fanboy patronism. "Fear change?" Fuck off. Youll lap up whatever dirty bathwater SE pours our because you have no standards. Have you even played the original? Were you even alive in '97 when the game released? Oh yeah so "very faithful" to the original. They should have marketed this as FFVII-2 or .5 chain of memories and not led us on with the remake people have begged for for years.
www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-7-remake-is-a-very-faithful-recreati/1100-6475164/
59:00
You should be using items to quickly heal, and magic to fully recover.
Cast times are a real thing, items are immediate use.
Tifa is a badass but wasn’t supposed to be portrayed that way. People thinking the OG writers are portraying her wrong is infuriating.
No; the point was to portray her as being level-headed and in control (with subtle hints of cracks in the armor) but then slowly revealing that this wasn't always entirely the case, BUT THEN showing the player that regardless of that not being the case, Tifa would always find a way to muster strength within herself to overcome adversity. That's how Tifa was portrayed in the original and that's what some people are arguing is the change up. Having her be meek in situations where she wouldn't have been in the original or playing up her vulnerability too early at times takes away from the big, gradual reveal of the extent of her trauma and the affect it had on her. That's not to say the remake still can't capture that in its own way, but the differences are worth pointing out
Couldnt have said it better
Moises Cabasquini This has been my biggest issue with the remake in general. It seems that they’re taking the approach of “the players already know how the whole story pans out so there’s no point in holding back,” and that sentiment really bothers me. They explicitly stated this was the reason why they decided to show Sephiroth off so early from the beginning. They said that he’s been in media so much that there was no point in keeping him hidden but... I don’t see why you wouldn’t. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t keep Aerith’s death hidden (they don’t explicitly show it but the flower scene is OBVIOUS plus they flash to it a few times) or why you would just flat out show Tifa’s personal struggle with her trauma instead of it being a silent build up. There are also moments in the game where new story elements have been added that just... don’t make sense. Am I seriously supposed to believe that President Shinra gets thrown through a window by presumably Sephiroth and NOBODY mentions it? It was a good scene and all, but nobody from Cloud’s team is going to ask why there’s a hole in the window and he’s dangling? The president isn’t going to ask them where that crazy maniac went after being tossed? He’s not even going to MENTION it? Cmon
@@m0002856 The questions i typically ask myself when evaluating the legitimacy of a change made between adaptations of source material, remakes, etc.are: what do the changes enhance? What do they detract from? I get the thought process of thinking it was pointless to try and recreate the Sephiroth reveal at the Shinra tower, but i find that the direction they took with handling Sephiroth did more to detract from his awe and menace rather than enhancing it. 1. There are still people who haven't played FF7, so it's still worth keeping Sephy shrouded in mystery for those players; and 2. you shouldn't be willing to sacrifice effective, palpable storytelling just because of a character's strong presence in media; just find a different, yet interesting way to recreate that mystery. There's a way to go about acknowledging outside media in storytelling without it having to compromise the narrative; but here, it's like they just gave up on trying to think of a way to capture that lightning again.
While the remake goes in a pleasant direction a good amount of the time, as some people in other comment threads have already pointed out, there are times where the game lets the meta of FF7 influence its direction in a negative ways, resulting in the storytelling feeling like it's mainly about subverting our expectations about FF7 rather than being its own thing. I think subverting expectations can be awesome when done right: at times FF7 remake feels like it's subverting our expectations with narrative purpose, but then there are also quite a handful of moments where it feels like it's just doing it because the creators are conscious of the fact that the fans know how the story will play out; that's the kind of subversion I don't like as it comes of being gimmicky. There's quite a bit i liked about the remake and still believe it can pull it all together, but i also see the areas where they dropped the ball when a little bit of careful thought, conviction and less presumptuous writing could have avoided that; oh well.
@@Supernerd471 Does it? I don't think i am. First off, let's address the fact that comparisons between these two games are inevitable; me pointing out certain things or commenting on which version i think did something better doesn't translate to me not judging the game on its own merits. If i were to compare two different games and note what i found to be strengths and weaknesses between the two, would that automatically translate to me not judging the games on their own merits? I wouldn't say it is. Besides, this remake constantly reminds you that there is an original; by consequence of that reality, you HAVE to make comparisons.
To be fair, my comments so far haven't even really about me bring up qualms about the remake because it's not like the original nor have I berated the remake for not being the original. All I've simply done is point out differences worth highlighting and explaining what why those changes matter to people or should have been reimagined in a more compelling way. Whether the original existed or not, I don't find the way the remake handles Sephiroth to be engaging. This is less about how he was handled in the original and more so about creating a compelling villain; or at least attributing a genuine sense of dread or adversarial tension to your central villain
I've listened to various ff7 podcast from Kinda funny games, Gamespot, Gamexplain, and now your channel.
I cannot get enough of people discussing this game.
This game running on the PS4’s hardware, would you rather have zones separated by stale load screens or “walk and talk” to keep the immersion experience consistent. I personally didn’t mind having more opportunity for character dialogue and less staring at load screens. You can see that the dev team was faced with this choice and personally, I believe they made the right choice. If your critique is that you want neither load screens or walk and talk, well that’s a criticism of the hardware limitations and not the game itself lol. Love the discussion btw guys!
Yeah, some critique is there for a sake of it. Like, if you enjoy these characters, then slow walk sections and walking through cracks would not feel that mundane. Especially if they are followed by good conversations.
Im sorry but a large majority of those cracks and what not dont have any conversations involved with them though. And if you like the the conversations, how does a slow drag through a crack add to that that a regular walking pace through an open stretch wouldnt be better? I accept these are contrivances for the hardware and immersion, but these are things that have long been criticized forever in game for being tedious, but for some reason it gets a pass with FF7R?
@@Foxcade It has been criticized forever because critics don't understand these loading sequences can't be made better without significant trade-offs. Do you have some technical solution none of these developers have been able to discover? It isn't just this game that should be a pass, it just isn't a valid criticism. Period.
Everyone understands why it's there. No one is critiquing it because "oh there is so many better ways to handle it". I even stated in the comment you are responding to it's a contrivance for the hardware and immersion. Its a issue we have learned to live with but it's still a tedious thing to regularly deal with, especially if it frequently disrupts the flow of the game. Stop being obtuse for the sake of an argument.
I definetly see where Clemps is coming from when it comes to the themes of death and how the original games aim may seem to have gotten lost in the remake. BUT, the way we saw Biggs and Jessie die in the remake were Hollywood as fuck, they got to say their last words to Cloud and all, it was only missing the "screaming the characters name to the heavens" trope, so I think that they are saving big character deaths for the sequel, it may be extremely cliche to say this but I think they are setting things up for a Star Wars-esque structure where "Remake 2" will end on a dark and dour note like how The Empire Strikes Back did, as the protagonists are in their darkest place and then have the third game be a journey to get ontop again, Idk just my two cents on the matter.
I didn't like the ending and how it changed Biggs' and Wedge's deaths but from this perspective that does sound like a very good idea. Without spoilering for anybody reading there are two very good places I can think of for this to happen (people who have played the OG will know which two I mean). The first one chronologically sounds like really good idea and could open up the possibility of having them thrust even further into despair if the third game starts with the big reveal and what follows.
I agree on the last words and all, it's also why Crisis Core bothered me. Like he had enough time lying down to call Cloud his "living legacy" and say his piece and all I could think of was that it was way too anime for me, real life isn't like that. Call it personal preference, but I preferred how the original had it as a silent flashback - it was cruel, it hit that Cloud never got to say a final goodbye, it added so much more to how messed up he was after. The Biggs/Jessie thing really reminded me of that and pulled me out of the immersion
@@FahrenheitEX Jesse is also alive. Noone died. Somehow not even Zack.
@@Zangelin Actually Jessie is confirmed dead if you look at the chapter 12 objective descriptions. Wedge also got tossed out of a window over 60 floors high, so he's most likely dead too. If Zack is alive, it would only be in an alternate timeline. The Zack our characters know and love still died like he was supposed to. It looks the only character alive in Remake's timeline that shouldn't be is Biggs.
Some friends? I wonder who Foxcade kno-
WHAT.
I feel like putting in a Gambit system in the game undermines what the battle system is meant to be encouraging, which is constant character switching all the time. ATB charges nowhere near as fast when a character isn't under player control and enemies aggro to who you're using, so you're encouraged to constantly change so that one character isn't being rushed down the entire fight and you're managing every characters charges more often.
I feel like a better fix would be an "auto" materia that would cause the ai to use the linked materia on their own.
@@tigerfestivals5137 they kinda have that where they have auto cure and a link materia where if one character does an action, they'll use one that's connected to the link.
Agreed, not sure why more people don’t understand this
Also Steadfast Materia is incredibly underused.
@@Cai_Behr yeah i know that but i mean an auto link materia that could be paired with any spell and wouldn't require player input. You'd have to use 2 materia slots but it would add more ai control and still be balanced with how the current system encourages you to constantly switch characters.
next time "brief 23 hour discussion"
1:57:50 ".....for Part 2 where we've got to fight a big snake in a swamp and I'm like we've just beaten Satan" lol
To be fair, strong chracters beeing afraid of ghosts is a japanese thing. You can see it a lot when you watch anime.
I see it almost every anime/jrpg I've ever seen. Even characters who should be afraid of ghost like the megaman from the NT Warrior series.
Nomura is directing this, there's no director in this industry who is more "weeaboo" than him (not even Kojima). There's anime nonsense all over this game
@@RRRRRRRRR33 wow, if you think Nomura and Kojima are two of the biggest "weaboo" in the WHOLE industry, than you have not played a lot of japanese games. Even Takayuki Kusano is a bigger "Weaboo" by your definition.
Also, you probabely should read again what a "weaboo" is, because I don´t think you really know what that means.
I get it, you are not a fon of Anime, I´m on the other hand not a fan of Comics, but please, at least try to use the right terms.
@@Lethos1000 No, I did not played a lot of japanese games. Had my overdose of their nonsense in the early 00's. When you grow up with shit like naruto and the PS1 final fantasy games (hell, legend of dragoon with literal magical power rangers lol) it's hard to look back and think "ok, those were such great times!". I understand the appeal, when the japanese game is really well written like Persona 4 and 5, I can still be invested into it. But, we have tbh, most of their rpgs went to shit ever since those early 00's days. The western public got sick of their exaggerated bullshit. Considering this FF7 remake have at least 10 hours of cutscenes, I've never experienced a game with so many grunts, moans, kawai poses, characters giving thumbs-up, Cloud acting like a asshole but the obligatory harem flocks to him anyway, etc.. A random advent children SOLDIER doing backflips and wheeling his bike like a lunatic lol So much anime crap, at least they work well in Wall Market... hell, even the generic housekeeper have spiky anime hair ffs And you just said there's other directors that are even more over the top than Nomura?? Count me in, the unbearable cringe is hilarious lol
@@RRRRRRRRR33 Well, I find the mainstream Comic Book Industry these days way more cringe than Anime to be honest. Most of those are uninteresting and boring.
Hell the "best" coming next is All the Superheroes, but with swords!!
Than you have Snoqflake and Savespace, two new superheroes so dumb, that even the people they should represent find them over the top offensive and Anime overall has a lot more variety these days.
Of course it´s like coffee, not everybody likes coffee. There are people who don´t like Lord of the Rings or the Godfather etc.
The thing for me is, if you don´t like something that´s fine, just don´t be a dick about it and try to trow it in everybodys face how much you don´t like something. If you don´t like something, don´t buy it and vote with you wallet.
I stopped playing FF 13 at some point and never played the other games, but I never shouted at someone who liked it "OMG what a shitshow that game is".
Also, a lot of those movies and series Hollywood shits out these days are far worse in my opinion and Disney is out of Ideas anyway.
But hey, if someone likes the new Picard show, good for them. If someone liked female Thor, good for them. Even if someone liked Batwomen, good for them. It´s just not for me so I don´t watch it.
Yea, the death of Zack kick started the game and is very crucial to Cloud's character development and so was Aerith's death as well. I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic because I really did enjoy the game because the combat system was exceptional, character dialogue/extra development for side characters was superb, and the soundtrack was awesome (especially the airbuster boss theme). Even if the ending was questionable, I'm looking forward to what they do in the future.
"I don't need to hear that things are going to be changed when I've heard that in an interview." Guess we don't need to play the game to find that out. We'll just read all the interviews.
Sakaguchi's big contribution to the story was actually the concept of the lifestream. Nomura is the one who came up with the Aerith death. Heck, Kitase wanted to kill everyone and Nomura stopped it because he thought it would undermine the purpose of her death.
Agreed Nomura and Nojima are sometimes too scared to kill off characters but they understand the theme of loss in FF7 as they were a big contributor to aspects of it.
Also, while I was also annoyed that they kept Biggs alive, it's worth noting that all 3 of the AVALANCHE crew were just NPCs with no real personality so their deaths didn't necessarily hit that hard. Additionally, Chapter 13&14 were very much dedicated to the characters dealing with loss. I know it kinda renders it pointless seeing Biggs and possibly Jessie alive, but the journey is important too.
About the complains about pacing, dungeons being too long or sidequest being stupid. I never felt that way. For example dungeons were for me more time for character building, more time for banter. sidequest more worldbuilding and character building. I just enjoyed being in that world no matter how meaningless that may be, I eat that shit up like candy. I enjoyed tifa softer side, makes her a lot more human and relateable
You can have character building and good levels and pacing.
The in-battle banter is a huge thing I'm looking forward to when I get the game, among others. :p
yea people forget they are side quests you dont have to do them
Exactly I enjoyed every second of the game, the long dungeon are an opportunity for me to actually play the game since I felt like the battle system so fun and fights ended really fast so I would intentionally go back a few screens for enemies to respawn, and what people are complaining about regarding pacing the story/character talks were long and the dungeons were long enough, plus in almost every single jrpg I have ever played the final dungeon was always the very long it's basically a standard for any jrpg.
The one that actually got me interested in ff7 was Clemps with his crisis core video
He streamed the cutscenes compilation of CC in preparation for the video, and I legit started crying at the end of the stream, not knowing shit about FF7 story. THAT'S where I got interested.
For anyone worried, hard spoilers start at 1:13:36. Everything before that is general response toward the game.
Also, even if you disagree with a guest's take, please be respectful. This is a divisive ending for a reason.
What was the voice acting spoiler thing at 48:00??
Gamers make 3 hour long videos about mediocre games and wonder why woman won’t fuck them
Sorry you've never had lengthy talks with friends about things you care about. I'm sure it seems very foreign. Maybe one day!
Foxcade cope posting lol
I learned it from watching you
thought about the sephiroth fight: maybe the devs wanted to do a humanoid sephiroth fight but realized that there isn't actually a point in the plot where you actually seriously fight humanoid sephiroth (since the final fight of FF7 is essentially scripted)
Wouldn’t Shinra Mansion be a good spot?
I mean I got my regular form Sephiroth fight plus his one winged form so I thought it was fun. The context was... strange, but the fight was really fun.
@@Comkill117 Strange, lol no reason to sugar coat that, it was just batshit crazy and cringy
Wouldn't it be better to just take that scripted final fight and have it not be scripted? That's certainly what I assumed they were going to do.
He's fighting Advant Children Sephiroth, who is a humanoid. Cloud tries to omni slash him and he parries it and says, "not enough." seph here is waaaay stronger than cloud.
The current Sephiroth is still in the crator trying to get the black materia.
Maybe by the end of this trilogy we have 2 sephs to fight.
I promise to watch all of this when I play and finish the game. P5R is currently taking priority over anything else
P5R is only the greatest jrpg ever made
Ironically, the themes of death coming out of nowhere have been set up again, not taken away. They’ve given us the opportunity to experience unknown deaths at any point.
That is a very valid point and I hope that's where the direction is going. My only counter point would be Nojima and Nomura have a history of retconning deaths repeatedly throughout Kingdom Hearts to the point that it never matters in the long run, plus we dont know if those deaths will be as well executed with the change. Still really uncertain and up in the air but I hope they stick the landing.
@@Foxcade Pretty much my feelings as well. Even this game has a bunch of fake out deaths with the Avalanche members. I just don't trust that Square will make an artistic choice over a monetary one. Like in a comic book where a character is brought back to life because it's more profitable for them to be alive then dead. Would love for them to prove me wrong.
The Tifa deathflags made me cry.
@@Cyross64 Wouldn't you agree that it's not as simple as choosing monetary over artistic? The two go together. It may be the more monetary path for comic companies to permanently kill off their characters. Maybe they would sell more because their stories had more impact on their customers.
@@rctolentino3262 What moments are you referring to?
My friend has never played any Final Fantasy game period and played this one first, and he absolutely LOVED it. He genuinely can't wait for the future installments, yea he agreed some things didn't make much sense to him, be he knew there would be future parts.
great overview, can't wait for the in depth discussion!
Spolier* - the timeline is out of sync because Sephiroth keeps trying to change them. Spehiroth lures cloud into the alley in the beginning. Sephiroth was trying to keep Cloud and Aerith from meeting each other. That's why the whispers were around Aerith to keep her there until Cloud shows up.
I know a lot of people hate the anti retcon ghosts, and I think they're a bit weird...
But the notion that Sephiroth is trying to change the timeline, with reality literally pushing back against him is pretty cool as a story concept.
Sometimes they're used reasonably, but they are inconsistant. Sepheroth wasn't around before the plate drop, the whispers have no excuse for whatever they were doing/not doing there. Nor was he around when the Whispers hurt Jessie and stopped her going on the mission to reactor 5, directly changing the timeline themselves.
@@Sheechiibii New visions of Sephiroth did happen though. These visions changed events and so the ghosts had to correct them.
@@Cameron-qe7il What were they correcting when they stopped Cloud and co from climbing the sector 7 pillar? What were they doing when they hovered around Biggs, Jessie, and then Wedge even though 2 out of those three we know survived the plate drop even though in the original timeline they didn't?
@@Sheechiibii I mean i could go into some level theory stuff but might as well just watch the spoiler mode video.
I was really enjoying the first 90% of the game. The changes that were expansions of what was in the original worked for me. But everything with the whispers and timelines, destiny and undoing character deaths was everything that I grew to hate about the KH series. If they wanted to show that they were changing the story, there had to be something better than Nomura’s crap way of doing it.
The game was perfect...WHY? Because they did the unexpected while doing the expected...and considering how they're painting a picture of Midgar for like 50 hours...I cant wait to see how they do with The Chocobo breeding and the Knights of the Round summon...and I cant wait to see Vincent's Limit Breaks
Gotta say, im so happy to see your four here discussing this game, that i love, while i follow your channels for years, and i mean all four of you. Im just happy, what a team up
This was practically my first experience in series and I loved it. It made me want to know more, which is why I'm listing to a bunch of podcast.
Clemps, Foxcade, Codex Entry and Super butter buns talking for 2:30hrs about my favorite game. Sign me up!!
Ill come bacl to this when i beat the game. Im at chapter 14. See you in a few days.
Have fun! Would recommend taking at least a day to process the final chapter before opening up to other opinions about it.
@@cfighter95 Thanks a lot fam! Im now getting the trophies before tackling hard mode. The ppl were right about the final 3 chapters being WTF IS GOING ON level of mindblowing. Imo MY 2020 GOTY!
Loved every part of it including dungeons and side quests , the judgement on the final part depend on where they take it from here .
One thing I want to pick up on about the Whispers, as a creative professional myself I get why they did what they did and want to pick up on something you said.
"The whispers were invasive and when they are around you just want them to piss off". That's kind of the whole point and illustrates the problem with remaking a known story and the demands of the fans. As a creator they will have new ideas, but the fans can, at times, be a force that the creative mind might want to just... piss off... so you can create. Also, as a fan, the constraints of the original can at times be something you just want to piss off.
Note how many times they stopped you from getting new things, that as a player you totally want. Like that Materia in the church, or some new information that might be juicy, or a character moment that as a fan you might want to continue. But no, that nice, shiny new thing, you can't have because we aren't allowed. And the consistency, fans are like that too. They get hellbent when change is made, unless you like it. Imagine for a second they hooked Cloud and Tifa up (literally) or Cloud and Aerith. Certain fans would go from "no change" to OMG my wishes are fulfilled. What constitutes acceptable change and what passes is really subjective and the terms in which fans will resist will be inconsistent. But yeah, the moment you want them to piss off, you're asking for change.
I think it was entirely intentional that the dodge didn't have I-frames, it's not a full action game and they don't want you to play it like it is!
Yup, if you time it right you can dodge it, and if you don't, you use block. It'a a rpg thing. I see a lot of people not understanding in and it's jarring seeing people constantly dodge around the battlefield like it's an action game.
And the counter mechanic of Operator Mode, also “Counter-Stance”, which for those who don’t know what that is, wait until you get clouds final weapon, Twin Stinger
@@CrimRui Yeah this is not a game you are meant to no damage, getting hit is actually pretty necessary for some of the fights
Then why have a dodge at all, this reeks of excusing bad game design because muh nostalgia look at the pretty animations bing bing wahoo.
Because if you have the skill and know how long you have to dodge the incoming attack, then you can, especially with characters like Aeirith and Barret, the slower of the party members, where as Tifa is really damn fast, and cloud has two counter options
This was a phenomenal discussion!
You gotta think of Sephiroth as Darth Vader. All that really matters is that he’s evil and his backstory will come in the sequel.
Ironically, they’re also both characters whose power levels have been blown way out of proportion since the original. All Vader did is choke one guy and Sephiroth just taunted Cloud a bunch, but now they both throw buildings around like DBZ characters.
The end could totally mean that by defeating the guardians of fate Aerith was trying to save Zack too. That is why she sees (or hopes) him surviving in a different version of the timeline. I think that the lifestream is shared between different timelines. I don't know if timeline is the appropriate word, it seems that there are different cicles connected by the lifestream and that is why Sephirot can sense what happened before. I'm pretty hyped to see where the story will go from here, it was such an incredible game.
You guys watched the Easy Allies (similar to this) video with Maximillian Dood? He said it's AC Sephiroth who went back to mess with the OG timeline. I believe FF Ultimania confirms this (alhough I have not read it so maybe I'm wrong on that one). I think that makes perfect sense
there's so much references from Advent Children. Sephiroth never had the one-winged human form until AC but it was shown in the Remake.
Soooo much this!!! I really think they missed the point and are operating on "level one" as max states it. I'm sad they didn't get the new themes and didn't like the ending because it wasn't spoon fed to them.
@@rctolentino3262 Yep true I also noticed the same thing(s). But about him having a wing, you could also connect it to KH Sephiroth (different wing though, so not likely). But there's a lot of stuff thrown at you at the end, so I had to let it all sink in. I then came to the conclusion that it made perfect sense that it was indeed AC Sephiroth. But then we could be wrong :P untill we play the next episodes. I didn't notice though that the 3 future whispers were those 3 from AC, kinda forgot about them haha
@@MrNajie Yeah but I get why people miss it, I almost did too. Especially new players cannot know that this "is" the case. I guess Nomura/Nojima really likes to fuck with people's minds like Sephiroth does in the remake (also in the OG btw hahah), coincidence? lol. People got different opinions about the ending and that's all fine by me. But I thought the ending was epic as shit!
@@verussadap they were annoying in the movie, so I imagine a lot of people doesn't remember them. The Tifa death flag from advent Children carried over in the FF7 remake.
Whenever after watching scene Barret interact with Marlene, I had to punch wall to feel manly again.
Cannot wait for the long form version of this discussion.
The fact that they preserved Zack (Aerith's love interest) clues me in to the possibility that they want Aerith to live in this remake. One interesting idea I've heard is how Aerith's death and return to the lifestream of the planet was how the team was able to defeat Sephiroth and his meteor in the end. It would be interesting her living creates a new dooming outcome for the planet. It will be interesting to see how they handle it from here on out.
What I am worried about is that they are going to pull a Kingdom Hearts here and give every character a happy ending. It cheapens the emotional weight I've developed for the character and the impact of their store. I agree that I will be mad if all they change here is Zack and Aerith's deaths.
I agree. I think there's room for the writers to bring back Aerith without undermining the themes.
Say the whole remake timeline exists because post-AC Seph has had enough of failing to return and has found a way to go back and correct things. So obviously leaving Aerith alive, stripping Cloud of that important growth he goes through after her death, stripping the fear of death from anyone etc. would be a part of his sinister plan.
I think that's an interesting way to frame it. We get Aerith back but have to face and confront the fact that her dying saved the world and what it means for the villain to plot to ensure she lives.
The sakaguchi thing with his mother's death influencing the game and aerith is false, it was actually Nomura's idea for those events due to him being frustrated with how the series had handled death up to that point, sakaguchi's mother had died in 1988 and people thinking it had a hand in VII's story was due to a misinterpreted interview that has since been clarified
Is that so! Damn I've been clinging onto that for years, can you link me to the clarification?
Never knew that!
I’m sorry but that is less believable than Sakaguchi dedicating the game to his mom. FFVII is Nomura’s first game with that franchise, he would have absolutely no influence on the game’s direction other than character design for that game’s development. Especially since he’s the youngest member of that team.
Nomura has been with the franchise since 4, and it's not that unreasonable for a lead character designer, someone that works closely with the director in making characters, to make a suggestion that ends up in the game. The director even credits him for it if you look it up.
Interesting if true. You got a source for this?
continuitynod.com/2018/07/31/aeriths-death/
Here’s an article that backs that up from 2018.
www.ff7citadel.com/press/int_sakaguchi.shtml
This is an interview that supports that Sakaguchi’s mother died during the development of FF 3 and not 7.
www.polygon.com/a/final-fantasy-7
(Specifically the section “Square kills one of the game’s main characters”)
This seems to support that it was Nomura’s idea to kill Aerith in the original game.
Whether all this gives you more faith in the next part or not is up to you.
Final Fantasy VII Remake, known in Japan as Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition
Final Fantasy VII: You Can (Not) Remake
@@EternalReplicant you can (not) save her
Not even remotely close.
FF7 Remake, FF7 Rebirth and it will end with FF7 Reunion. God save the great writers of the holly land called Japan! Who is Dostoevsky compared to Nomura and Kojima?
I love that the characters store atop. It's a blast to switch to other characters and issues commands from the slow menu while staying on a certain character.
I’m 2 years late so if anybody sees this, they can take it or leave it.
I played OGFF7 many, many times growing up and it’s my favorite in the series. I’ve played through remake 6 times now, reaching 100% twice (my file got lost when I switched to PS5 for intergrade), and I’m now playing through intergrade on hard mode and going for 100% there as well. I played Crisis Core to completion twice, once on PSP when it came out, and just recently with CC: Reunion. I played DoC many times as well to 100%, and have seen both versions of Advent Children several times. I also played all the Kingdom Hearts games so I’m familiar with how Square has kinda blurred the image of their own characters a few times.
With all that said, I’m a huge fan of this universe and it’s story and characters. I have no problems at all with remake. Some combat and camera issues sure, and the slow walking bits, whatever. Didn’t ruin anything for me.
I’ve been binging TH-cam videos of people like these guys for weeks now. MaximilianDood, Easy Allies, Dropped Frames, and a few others, and I feel like between my own conclusions and things I’ve heard in their videos, I’ve got a pretty good idea what’s going on. It makes a lot of sense to me, and everything I’ve seen so far has tied the compilation stuff together in a very effective way that doesn’t feel forced, and even makes some of the dumber comp stuff a lot better imo.
It’s easy to pick apart time travel and be mad about it. But it’s what we got so I won’t spend time whining about it. This is a sequel to OG7. We all know that by now. Sephiroth has seen his lifespan from beginning to end with the end being Advent Children. His last line is that he will never be a memory. Knowing he will inevitably fail, he attempts to travel back through time in order to change things that will allow him to succeed. Sephiroth showing up in sector 5 didn’t happen in OG7, sure. The reason he’s here this time is because he knows Cloud meeting Aerith is bad news. So he attempts to delay him long enough so that they will never meet. This is supported by the fact that the ghosts are surrounding Aerith when Cloud finally does meet her. Because if they never meet, the timeline is compromised. Sephiroth wins in that scenario. I won’t break down everything because nobody cares, especially not FF7 purists. But the concept lasts throughout the whole game. The ghosts need to make sure the main story beats happen. Small alterations are fine, as long as the end result is the same. Sephiroth realizes this, and at the end of remake lures you and the party into the ghost dimension or whatever to trick you into destroying them. He does this so that he can further his plan to alter the parties destiny, hopefully to an ending that doesn’t result in his death. Sephiroth wants to stay alive, so he tricks you into killing fate. Basically. Sure they dump it all on you at the last second, and it’s kinda out of left field, but it’s not at all hard to understand.
Part 2 and 3 will be largely the same as the original. Killing fate doesn’t mean that we’re gonna end up playing Sephiroth in fort condor for all the marbles instead of killing him with omnislash. It means that they can take some liberties to incorporate some of the compilation stuff without it feeling totally out of place. Aerith will still die. But it will hurt even more because we think that since we killed fate there’s a chance we can save her. We all know what her death means for the story and the characters so we know there’s no way she survives. Vincent and Yuffie will not be missable, which at this point is obvious after playing intergrade. We’ll 100% get expanded stories for and play as all of these characters in all their glory.
We had to fight Sephiroth at the end of the game because we all know everyone would be upset if there wasn’t a confrontation with him at the end. The party fights him in a realm where time doesn’t matter, that’s why we see everything from Advent Children stuff to the final confrontation at the edge of creation from OG7. Also I thought the harbinger of fate boss was a little weird and Kingdom Hearts-y, until I saw someone compare it to a whisper weapon. Which goes hand in hand with the planet’s other defenses against this kind of stuff (the classic weapons, the plot ghosts) and makes it a lot more bearable for me.
Sorry for the novel but if it’s too long to read, basically FF7 is square’s golden goose, and part one and intergrade were fucking phenomenal retellings/expansions of the original story and tied in the compilation stuff very well. They know what they’re doing by touching this classic after all these years and there’s no way they’re dropping the ball. I loved the game and I can’t wait to play the rest of it when the story really takes off. Cheers
Agree with this. The important point to understand is that this is a sequel, not a straight remake. Remake refers to Sephiroth remaking the timeline to his vision. I have no issue with this. It was never going to be a straight remake, instead they're putting a novel twist on it and drawing on the wider FF7-lore, not just the OG.
The Max Dood/Easy Allies analysis videos are superb, and will likely end up being pretty accurate in terms of where the games end up going. This is a good vid too, and I appreciate that it was recorded in the immediate aftermath of the guys completing the original version of "Remake".
Personally, I thought "Remake/Integrade" was a phenomenal game. Not without flaws, but it was far better than I had any real expectation of it being, especially given Square's more recent track record.
I feel the same way.
Loved your break down:)
I was surprised with how many People from Teen Wolf starred in the Remake, especially Cody, who was voicing Cloud and the other Guy who was voicing Sephiroth. Both of them nailed it
Sephiroth was voiced by the guy who did Superman in Supergirl CW too.
Glad they kept the dub joke going given his previous VA was DCAU Supes.
Cloud VA was ok, Sephiroth not so much. The character itself looks ridiculous already, to create a fake sense of "threat" and "danger", that's why Uematsu went overboard with his music. Later, in Advent Children they hired a english VA who had a more menacing voice. You need these artifices to raise the threat, but the menacing voice is not here anymore.
The current design of sephiroth is personally one of my favorites and I think his voice is really good fitting, since it has this calmness to it
The CW took over VA casting. They fired all VA. Most of the choices were ok. Zack and Sephiroth were meh.
@@Lionheart683 zack i fully agree it is just bad
I think if they introduced Sephiroth like they did in the original, blood, gore and all. The rating of the game would be Mature. Which they might have wanted to avoid. So they had to downplay it a bit.
I'd love to see ye talk about the ending again, delving into all the fan theory that's been put together since this was recorded. Maximillian Doode blew my mind on the Spoiler Mode podcast laying out all the things fans have been discovering recently. So many potential layers as to what's going to happen going ahead.
Max Dood is already covered theories. I love the Dood but I honestly dont see much value added to the discussion by making wild theories about what MIGHT come outside of getting people hyped for the next game. Ive been on enough of Nomura's wild train to know that theory crafting isnt going to save anyone since he does whatever the fuck he wants with his stories. We are focusing on the now and how well it did that in this talk.
@@Foxcade Ye mentioned ye're concern that they might have just done this and not known wtf to do next and honestly, I find that terrifying. Reading more into these strings of potential shows me they might actually have a plan. That, combined with the love and detail already shown in this game (they even included novel characters of all things) makes me more optimistic about the games future direction.
I understand a lot of fellow fans feel burned right now as there is a lot of doom and gloom going around. I just want to give them a little hope that not everything is ruined quite yet. Also speculating where things can go next is a fun pastime until the next part comes out. I don't want them to miss out!
I did love this discussion BTW, don't think otherwise. I partially suggested a follow up as I just didn't want this video to end :)
That's fair and I do appreciate the support. Guess I've had so many people telling me to go watch Max that it's getting exhausting which is why that might have come off as snarky. I do trust that Nomura and co know where they are going considering the love put in, but as an OG Kingdom Hearts fan, I also know that they have a habit of seemingly writing by the seat of their pants, with varying results, so I'm still apprehensive in signing off on everything without seeing where it's going. That said, as I mentioned at the end, I am excited to see where they go whatever it is, whether its masterfully put together or straight schlock.
@@Foxcade No worries man. I get it can be frustrating having folks all spamming you the same thing, sorry if I added to that. As for the Nomura-nonsense-train it seems we've all got a lifetime ticket haha! I hope the more grounded setting of 7makes them hold back on a lot of their more recent shark-jumping. My hope is that any timeline or multi verse stuff is confined to this one incident and going forward everything is just the original story sprinkled with fallout from this event.
Most my friends are yet to finish the game and with the lockdown I can't really call over and duct tape their hands to a ps4 controller until they finish so I really appreciated being able to listen in on ye're thoughts. Hopefully Nomura will use some of his many belt buckles and tie himself to reality long enough to finish this sensibly! Keep up the great stuff buddy :)
- Nah, they said the word "episodic" and people jumped to conclusions based on what we think episodic means based on Life is Strange and other games even though the context at the time was that they would be longer parts. Even after they clarified soon after, the damage was done and people had already categorized it.
- I understand the padding opinions, and would agree to a point - that padding and long pathways made for really interesting moments of dialogue and such. So it was worth it in a big way because there isn't "time" for
- Tifa's always been soft and emotionally vulnerable, a big hearted character who has been beaten down and experienced great loss. She has her own trauma to deal with and I think they did a good job planting the seeds for future character development and linking her story to Cloud's. She shows a lot of moments of weakness and timidness in the original, and in the Remake, despite how strong she is because the things she's seeing are... huge. Crazy. Yall are right, she's awesome and tough, but it's also worth keeping in mind that she has character development later. One moment that shows her strength as a character is in Chapter 14, where she stops Barret from making a scene. She stops him in alarm, then listens sadly as he explains to her what the player already knows is true - a reminder of their mission and they need to keep going. However, Tifa speaks up in return. She says "I know" and tells Barret to look around, people are terrified, now is not the time. Barret likewise *listens* to her and backs down because she's *also* right. (The Tifa-Barret friendship in the Remake is wonderful.)
- I would like to say considering someone just brought up the Promise a moment ago:
I do like how they gave Cloud agency in the Promise situation. A problem I had with the original game was the way the Promise played out as a motif through the game. Tifa bringing it up at the bar 7 years later made it seem to younger me like Cloud was manipulated (though I'm sure Tifa didn't mean it that way at all given her characterization) and being held to a promise made by children. lol
Hot Take: It always came off as strange to me and might have been a translation thing. It's also typically thought of as like "awww how romantic, the Promiiiise" by the fandom and??? I never saw it that way because to me it's like EXCUSE me? It's been 7 years of hard times, traumatic firey awfulness, (torture, though neither of them know it atm) and growing up. Is dragging Cloud into life threatening danger and painting a criminal bullseye target on his back in a city as oppressive and dangerous as Midgar something to do to an old friend because of childhood feelings? I was unsure how I felt about Tifa for years because of the Promise. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that was odd or unintentionally skeevy - example: watch the Machinabridge by TeamFourStar and they extrapolate big parody character traits (in Tifa, who as a parody of herself asks frequently "will you do me a solid?") and plot (Cloud being threatened/blackmailed into joining Avalanche) from exactly that scene in the OG. It's a joke there that's brought up as problematic even later in the show, but it's based on similar observations to my own.
To put it differently, Cloud had many many choices robbed from him in those 7 years. Narratively, someone who loves him shouldn't seemingly remove choices too. If Cloud was a female character and Tifa a male, I think I'd see more people sharing a similar opinion. Agency isn't always possible for plot reasons, but when setting up your characters as heroes and a romance, agency is important.
However. In Remake they switch it up to where Cloud remembers it himself and feels beholden to the Promise on his own. I loved it. He made the choice and Tifa's characterization remains intact. It also translates as romantic better, in my opinion, that he remembered and not something he needed to be held to.
My comment's long enough and this is 5 months old. I'll just leave this here. xD
I'm impressed that Nomura didn't call this game Re:Make
I'm surprised it isn't called Final Fanfiction 7 (VII): Advent Children 2: Chapter 1: Prologue: Origins 3/8 sectors.
@@bartandaelus359 Final Mix.
FF7 multiple alternate endings
2:33:35 THIS! I've been hoping that Part 2 would cold open into the Nibelheim flashback ever since they announced Part 1 was all Midgar.
Let's make new fans even more confused
@@RRRRRRRRR33 Only for a moment? And it's not like plenty of TV shows and movies don't use that technique. I also think it'd make for a more exciting intro than taking a leisurely stroll across the field lol
@@MattitudeAdjustment sure, I don't disagree lol it's that... The original plot was already messy... And here it comes square wanting to $plit the whole thing + they even add fucking time travel. I feel sorry for new fans, really, this is a goddamn mess. The original game is almost unplayable, imagine all the younger fans who will have their first experience ever with this lol i know some people who never played a final fantasy game and they are starting with this madness
Y'all are forgetting that FF7 Original was made BEFORE 9/11 and 2011 Earthquake. Both Events ESSENTIALLY prevents most writers from not looking for the consequences of terrorism or disaster without some insight.
31:54 Weakening Tifa?? How was Tifa weakened at all? No, she was humanized. She had emotion and vulnerability. Yes she was determined to get back to Sector 7 to stop them from destroying the plate, but if someone has a fear of ghosts, that determination is not going to stop when you are literally surrounded by ghosts in the Ghost Train section! She is humanized in that regard.
Besides the fluffy Nomura destiny stuff at the end, this is legitimately the best written Square Enix game in a decade, if not longer. The character writing especially is just a massive step up from the company's recent output. Really hope they stay at this level of writing quality for the foreseeable future.
Nomura didn't write this the original writer of ffvii wrote this.
@@miltonfigueroa3111 Something people keep forgetting, and I get the feeling some people hate the changes and ending just because they think nomura wrote it... actually, its more than a feeling because I've actually seen people downright admit that they hate the ending just because ''its from nomura''.
or "Its nomura kingdom hearts all over again"
(also some people claiming only kingdom hearts fans like the ending and true fans of the series hate it)
@@miltonfigueroa3111 Yup Nojima wrote this game
@@Maioly so Nomura didn't have anything to do with the story? Well if that's the case then I feel better for future installments, I kinda hate Nomura and the thought of him turning this game into another kh with over the top apstract nonsense is horrifying.
@@alenezi989a3 As far as I know he only directed the game; The writing was all from the original writer of ff7
Well this is my first ff game.
One of the few disagreements I have with the commentary is that FF7R isn't a good place to start. This might be the best, most accessible game in the franchise to date, and you'll want to play the other titles afterward.
@@12ealDealOfficial ok. So I've been hearing this by other fans who played the remake. A lot of them have said that they're mad that they were lied to and are willing to sue Square Enix.
@@carterh914 It's because there's a twist in the ending that reframes the game. I donno if you've finished this video or the game, so I won't spoil.
The vocal minority is terrified of change, and is just throwing a fit.
@@TheDapperDragon I played through the entire game. I don't know what to say they want to do something new with these characters and they thought this was the only good way to do it.
@@carterh914 I agree. I adore what they've changed, and can't wait.
For newbies, it shouldn't matter, as they don't have a huge attachment to the OG's storyline, though they miss out on some little details.
For vets, it puts us back in the 90's excitedly talking about what's coming next. It also opens up the ability to fix some major problems with the OG, tell a totally new story, or just go hog wild and turn part 2 or 3 into a love-letter to the series.
I found this in my recommendeds, and suddenly SuperButterBuns shows up! Nice :D
This will be fun to listen to at work im looking forward to it
The ghost train yard was my favorite part!!!
The theme for the Ghoul boss is godlike.
The atmosphere for the train yard is amazing and the subtle backstory implications for it is interesting.
Overall, it does break the pacing a bit and would've been a perfect fit as a side mission for post game.
You guys are odd. It was easily the weakest part of the whole game apart from the ending.
In defense of the ghost train yard.( From the perspective of a new player.
The stretched out feel of this part of the game is an intentional way to marry gameplay and narrative. I did not get the impression that this was filler whatsoever. This is why: you get a glimpse of what's going on at the pillar. Everything before that is to get back to sector seven and save tifa. To get back home. Then you're interupted by Wall Market. Then Don Corneo tell you what's going on and you need to slog through the sewers. And the graveyard all that to get back home. Tifa doesn't want to lose her home again and is freaking out. We get cuts to see what's going on at the pillar. Then the team can see it in the distance. I got a real sense of urgency and annoyance here that culminated into a feeling in the end that if were just a little bit sooner we could've stopped this. If we were just a bit faster this wouldn't have happened. If the ghosts hadn't fucked with us we could've saved the plate. Which they make very obvious when you actually beat Reno and Rude. Almost stop it and then the whispers correct things. This also leads into another point that the whispers are inconsistent because they are not all powerful. They can try to fix things but they can also be beaten and over powered which is proven by the ending. The whispers can do a lot but if Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith got there before the majority of avalanche and the militia protecting the plate were defeated I think that would've been too much for the whispers to correct. Shinra and the Turks would've been overpowered and the plate would've been saved. But because it took so long to get there. They weren't in time.
My least fav dungeon was the AWFUL hojo lab where the team was split up. It felt like it would never end it took SO LONG to swap between the groups, it couldnt just auto do it with one team shouting down to the other, nope you have to find the specific console, use it, they talk, then the other group chats back before you can even move.
Funny, I loved that dungeon. Party switching reminds me of FFVI, my favorite FF. :)
I didn’t mind the dungeon, I minded the fact that they didn’t give us a freaking materia load out, so we’d constantly move around materia every single team swap.
Regarding how many parts it should be: 4 parts would allow the game to be nicely split up.
Part 2 could end around "the end of disc 1" for the original.
Part 3 could end around the point where Cloud returns to the group.
Part 4 would be the rest of the story, final battles against Shinra & Sephiroth/JENOVA.
Would work nicely since Yuffie and Vincent won't be optional, and they're expanding content with new recurring characters introduced in this game.
If you liked to be robbed, paying full price for chunks of content... well, be my guest. I think a trilogy is already offensive enough, but some people wants even more lol Also, Cloud and his anime gang already defeats a godlike being at the end of this "part", so what kind of character development is that? In part 2 they will defeat a stronger and bigger god? And so on and on? Amazing, Nomura sharing his amazing talent with the world!
After the cat cameo, i really hoped that the employee on the space division (during the elevator) was Cid
I got a paper on Aircraft Carriers I need to do, so I'll be back later.
Was about to run on the treadmill so I was legit about to search, ff7 remake review, so that I can gush about the game more. Then I see this video lol. Nice timing
these super fans that are mad about the story are in the minority. i am new to ff7 and i loved every min of the game can't wait for the next one
@@davids2cents594 I *am* a superfan. I say FF7 has shaped my life, but unlike Clemps, I can point to how: It literally introduced me to my wife.
It's amazing. As much as they want to try to nitpick and find non-issues, it's easilly the best non-port the PS4 has had. And the ending? Fucking amazing. Yes, it's a stretch, but it opens up so much story-telling potential, and pulls off the fucking impossible: Giving OG fans the ability to speculate and get excited about where the story goes.
But it's a change, so "IT'S A SCAM, THEY LIED, NOMURA RUINED EVERYTHING!"
Also, anyone notice what Barret says after the Cetra/Meteor movie in the shinra building? Had me Rolling. XD
This was my first final fantasy game and I absolutely loved it... Made me really get into the series as a whole, bought FFXV straight after and want to play the original
i loved it thought it was a fantastic twist. by the way i am surprised you guys were so mad at the dungeons there was tons of character building the entire time you were in one.did you guys have it on mute?. i could under stand it on a 2nd play through. but all that banter was really good
Fun dialogue doesnt make a dungeon that drags on suddenly fun itself, especially since the one we critiqued the most was right in the middle of the cast racing to save their friend and ruined the pacing.
@@Foxcade i honestly liked how long some of the dungeons were...but then again I enjoy the long, grueling and esoteric dungeons of the Star Ocean series so the Ff7r were honestly pretty simple. The only thing that really drugged on was the shinra building final few chapters, but even that makes sense because its a huge final dungeon essentially.
Thats frankly a real weak defense. Both versions are vague about when its going to happen. The Don Corneo scene plays out verbatim the same. Plus the Trainyard sequence STARTS with a cutscene of Reno and Rude head off to the pillar, so we know they are going to do it now. And even if it didnt, that doesnt mean that the story isnt abruptly halted for a sequence that adds very little to the overall narrative. If you liked the trainyard, that's cool. I just dont get why people are bending over backwards for a sequence that is clearly there to pad out the length. If it was half as long or a side quest as I said in the discussion, I'd be cool with it, but as it is, it kills the sense of urgency to save Sector 7 with a bunch of cutscenes related to putting ghosts to rest.
Nearly all those details came up in the first half, and then went on another hour. Even the life stream moment at the very end could have been worked into the first boss. It really didnt need to be that long for how little it was adding going forward. Plus the characters not knowing if its factually happening (which they do know since Corneo told them it's happening so they should be going there as fast as possible to stop it. If I told you your house was going to explode you wouldnt stop at the store for a snack.), we the audience know and so us being told to wait for another hour to get to the next story beat is still a pacing killer for the story being told to us.
Im sorry, but there really is not a lot of people defending the Trainyard that hard. It definitely seems to be the minority dying on that hill that it was necessary by any means. I'm not sure who you are talking to that are actively fighting for it. Best I've seen are comments that someone enjoyed it despite the issues of length, (which I've said is fine. I have with games I love that have problems that I've accepted) or saying it would have served best as a side quest over being plot essential. I dig the atmosphere but as I've said, it doesnt add nearly as much as it length does.
With the whole meta aspect they did with this remake, I feel like playing the original first will certainly enhance the experience of the remake. Also, if someone only plays the remake and not the original, I dont think they actually played FF7. Looking like they're going to be totally different experiences going forward. Beyond minor remake changes. If that sounds elitist or something, I dunno. Not meant to.
Honestly, dont think what they added fits FF7...If they did this with FF8, with Time Compression and the party members having grown up together and finding their way back to each other, it could've added more there and fit the story better, and help expand on the intricacies of concepts in 8 that some people say was only touched on. But yknow, 8 is criminally underrated and nowhere near as popular as 7 so they'd never remake it.
They've actually talked about moving onto 8 after 7R is done.
Also, let's be fair, there were elements of time and destiny in the OG too, most people have just forgotten them.
@@TheDapperDragon which parts of the original were about time and destiny?
@@tigerfestivals5137 The entirety of Reunion theory is about destiny. It's handwaved by 'cells', but cells don't work that way. Hojo even directly tells Cloud that no matter what he says or wants, he's *going* to end up at North Crater.
As for time, the entirety of Temple of the Ancients throws in time shennanigans, and features a being literally called 'the guardian of time.'
@@TheDapperDragon hmm its been years since i played ff7 so ill have to look up some cutscenes but that sounds interesting.
@@TheDapperDragon rewriting the original to justify the reboot, this is your brain on nomura crack.
The ghost trainyard sequence was my favorite part...
Im glad you liked it. Personally, as we said, if it would have been a side quest where it had the chance to breathe, it could have been rad. But in the main story where its squished between two incredibly important chapters, it grinds the pacing to a halt and doesnt add anything to the story in return for it.
Foxcade I think you guys make a great point that having experienced the original makes the filler more obvious. While I’m familiar with the original’s story and characters, I never played it. As such, I didn’t really *feel* the filler in a lot of places that you guys did. The ghost section to me felt kind of thematic as opposed to plot related. Though it’s placement is weird.
This was my first experience with FF7, while I was mildly confused, I certainly don't regret it
Super butter buns is friends with foxcade! Called it
Im very passioned about everything FF7 related and when i saw the remake ending, i got so emotional that i cried for about 2 hours. For me Zack is dead and has to be because of Clouds development. So here is my Idea: There is a Timeline where Zack lives, there is another Timeline from where this new Sephiroth is coming and there is the True Timeline old FF7. So FF7 Remake plays in a 4th Timeline where Biggs is alive and eventually Jessy. At the moment I hate it, because i think this is going to be a Happy End game and there will be people out there which want that to happen, im probably one of the minority who realy just wanted the same Core Story to be told with the capabilities of modern technology.
So at this moment im scared of what they are doing to this Franchise.
A theory I have about Zack is that he just dropped Cloud off in Midgar, had to get away in a hurry so that he wouldn’t be noticed, then went back home to Gongaga with his mom and turned his back on Shinra, letting them think he was killed in action. I have no damn clue what they could do with that but I just like the idea of Zack’s mom getting her son back. Maybe the Turks show up in the village because they’re still trying to find him?
Just a quick correction: The only other alternate time line variants that appeared in Endgame were Gamora, Thanos and his army, and Nebula. The rest of the heroes who appeared from the portals and their army were those snapped away in Infinity War.