Shooting the 1883 Reichsrevolver
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
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The 1883 Reichsrevolver is not the weapon most people would expect to see in German service - it was a decidely obsolete weapon from the moment of its adoption. The initial 1879 model was actually even worse, with an awkward grip and longer barrel, but the 1883 update retained all the same mechanical features of the first version. Specifically, it is a single-action-only revolver with a remarkably heavy hammer spring, a really pointless manual safety (you can only engage it when the hammer is down), a non-rebounding hammer, and no ejector. To remove the empty cases, you actually have to use a separate ejector rod stored in your holster - or a stick off the ground.
The cartridge is the 10.6mm German Ordnance round, used in basically nothing else, which is for all practical purposes equivalent to the .455 Webley. It fire a 250-260 grain lead bullet at about 650 feet per second (black powder only!). That doesn't translate into an impressive number of foot-pounds, but it was definitely a round that packed some wallop.
I went out to the range expecting the Reichsrevolver to a pretty atrocious gun, like it is on paper. Much to my happy surprise, though, I found it a lot of fun to shoot. The sight weren't regulated well to my ammunition (it shot substantially high), but the deep boom of the back powder, the cloud of smoke, and the nice kick (enough to convey some ballistic effectiveness, but not so much as to be uncomfortable) made for a great shooting experience. It may be an 1860s design 20 years past its time, but seeing as we are now 120+ years past when these were being actually manufactured (and we're not actually depending on these to fight colonial campaigns anymore) the Reichsrevolvers are a fun piece of antiquity.
as a wise man once said "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it"
Robbie Dickson ah but recall that the gun that wiseman sold didn’t actually work.....
@@rooseveltbrentwood9654 and so the wise man got hit...
kaptunkordan actually in this case when the irate customer returned the wiseman crushed his balls. ah Uzbeks.......
No, Tommy, I’m not sayin’ the gun don’t work. I’m sayin’ it’d do more damage if ya fed it to him.
😄
Love the look of the smoke clinging inside the cylinder after it revolves.
Shira Assel Agreed!
Yea thats sexy af
The fact that this revolver has no manual ejector is unforgivable. I could totally get used to everything else.
Joe Cool Yes, a very silly omission.
yep! the only deal killer for me to!!!
I'd rather have a Webley. Reloading is piss-easy and the casings eject themselves, double/single action with a surprisingly smooth double-action trigger pull, nice big sights for easy target acquisition; just generally seemed to be a more thought-out design, it would seem. As mentioned in the vid, even the M1873 Colt Single Action Army would be better. Smoother action, GREAT ejector rod (probably second best for fixed-cylinder revolvers; there's one Swiss revolver that I think was better because opening the loading gate made the trigger automatically index the casings for you which sped things up), better ergonomics, no useless safety, and so on.
I'd even rather have an M1895 Nagant, and the one I owned left a TREMENDOUSLY bad taste in my mouth. The double-action feature worked only when it wanted to, casings occasionally got stuck in the chambers, couldn't hit dick with it (I'm no marksman, but I was getting something like 10" groups at 10m), and while the Military loading was probably more potent I found the commercial stuff I got from Fiocchi felt utterly anemic. Like I was shooting .22lr or something like that, no 'oomph' or 'heft' at all. In the end, I happily rid myself of it. The date of manufacture was, surprisingly, almost as recent as you can get for the M1895; 1944. Production stopped 1945 as I recall.
Externally it looked great, but the double-action trigger just could NOT be trusted so was basically single action only. I broke an M1911 mag by using the 'toe' of it to try and pry out a casing from the revolver. The baseplate loosened, weakened, and eventually snapped off.
It's amazing a major power like Germany had a weapon without a basic feature common in cartridge revolvers by 1870 in 1879. That thing is like a scaled up Smith and Weapon No.2 from 1862. I can see why they didn't want the overly complex Mauser Zig-Zag but other than pure national chauvinism why take this over superior foreign designs?
how dare they produce something before the idea was invented... spoiled white man
for accuracy remember the barrel was 120 years old......
And probably wasn't that good in the first place
akduckwithm16 gaming and outdoors naw. German quality was best of breed and pride of production
KuK137 , yeah, of course. But your implied point is irrelevant here. I own an 1883 reichsrevolver, and I own an 1884 (71/84) tube fed mauser rifle. Having inspected both very closely I can confirm that manufacturing was outstanding on both for the Spandau arsenal. And materials were the best available steels, heat treating, wood, and fitment. Despite the design and engineering opportunities they missed, production was in fact, outstanding and tolerances excellent and beyond most of the day, excepting perhaps the contemporary efforts of the Swiss.
test invalid not European mud
@@RabbitusMaximus that doesn't change the reality of precision at the time.
It actually looks nice in the brown, in that old decaying sorta way.
reminds me of bioshock
Fritz Kühne your a strange one
it's pretty bad, but it's kinda charming in its own way. I like the rugged simplicity of it.
It will probably still work in another 134 years, and that has to count for something...
"Herr Kommadant, the Soldiers are rebelling and refusing to advance!"
"GET THE REICHSREVOLVER"
*Fires off the gun into crowd, before taking 5 hours to reload, and in that time the soldiers have joined the Spartakus revolt*
Slowest reload is video game history
oh yeah you VERDUN players know what im talking about
Ah, but it is a headhunter's dream!
I came to the Comments to See this :D
Thank you!
At least this thing's simple unlike a certain russian pistol that's nearly as much of a pain in the ass...
GREIF IHRE POSITION AN!!!!
That thing is awful
still more effective than a stick
Only if you're facing 6 or fewer opponents. :P
Are you talking about Ian's plastic punch?
Eks calybur: How quickly can you kill 6 men with a stick?
Give me a stout enough stick, about as quickly as I can swing it.
Bitwise break stick just get two stick, stick win every time
4:13 , this reload animation sucks, dev's fix it!
Yeah i would prefer a butler handling me a loaded gun.
if im getting a butler to reload i might as well use that fancy 20 round pinfire in another video
"Seperate Manual Ejector™©, which is basically technical speak for a stick" oh, how I love you Ian
"The Toyota Hilux of revolvers" -brilliant...
I use that thing in Verdun. It’s outdated and slow but I would like one. It’s a really simple, nice looking gun in my opinion.
It's very fun in verdun. U have to hit ur shots because it take 3 years to reload
As a German I must tell you, you are using it totally wrong. It’s not designed as a revolver. It’s actually the first club with long range capabilities. It was way ahead of its time.
Is this only revolver that you germans manufactured ?
I am surprised Ian didn't use his universal forgotten weapons tool - a plastic pen - to knock out the empties.
So was I. It would have served better than what he had, and was closer to the original size of what was issued with these.
I'd hate to have to try to load that in the middle of a battle.
I believe the philosophy of the German military at the time was that you're not supposed to reload it in combat. It's a backup weapon, if you still need it after six shots you'd be in some serious trouble.
Of course, I'd still like to have an ejector rod, even if I weren't supposed to have to use it.
I guess you were supposed to shoot six rounds, then take your saber and fight with that
I recognize that from Verdun (the game) speaking of which, you should try that game out Mr Ian
Ryan Wiles Right? It makes Battlefield look like a science fiction action movie...I will say I find Battlefield 1 to be a lot more fun though.
Fucking cod iw is more primitive than automatic-field 1
but seriousy bf1 is fun tho
When my dad was younger He got this revolver from some russian guys for 2 boxes of vodka. Many years later some bastards stole it. When I was a kid I was using it as a toy and running around the garden. I remember it was damn heavy and trigger was super hard.
Although it was different model. Year 1894 was stamped on it.
Got my model 1883 up and firing with my black powder hand loads. It fired pretty good really. 3” groups at 10 yards. I’m going to load up some more ammo and see if I can improve on that. Cheers.
I like Ian's history and mechanics videos, but I also appreciate his shooting videos with impressions and operation explanations. That actually looks like an entertaining gun to shoot. Not sure why so many of the guns at this time don't have good sights.
Despite all the flaws and disadvantages of it, I really wouldn't mind having one.
Harkshir yep. mine shoots wonderfully. .44 russian is inherently very accurate.
It makes sense that you'd be able to fashion the brass for the cases out of .44 Remington Magnum cases. .44 Remington Magnum to my knowledge was a further development of the .44 Russian cartridge, and 10.6x25mmR German Ordinance was itself based off of the .44 Russian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is the case.
Boy, Your 2020 presentations have certainly become substantially more polished since this was filmed. Still, informative and interesting.
"There is no reason" - there is one: money. This Revolver was designed to be mass produced cheaply. There hasn't been any war in europe yet where pistols played a major role. On top of that, the prussian military had a weird philosophy: provide their infantrist with cheap weapons and rely on the soldiers themselves and middle class civilians in the militia to purchase weapons of higher quality, and in case of a war bring them on the battlefield.
For example, before the introduction of the Dreyse rifle the prussian ordenance weapons was still a smooth bore flintlock musket. Rifles with&without percussion ignition were only used by specialized Jäger-units and the militia. The reason was: money. The prussian king would rather spend money on castles then on supplying his foot soldiers.
Then, as in most european armed forces, you had a bunch of narrow minded traditionalists in charge. They just didn't like the "newfangled", experimental stuff, especially when it was from a foreign country.
The last case of traditionalists hampering the development of modern weapons was the german OKW in WW2. Only after they realized that they were about to lose the war (in 43), they gave the engineers carte blanche to try all these "crazy new ideas" they pitched years or even decades before - like the assault rifle, the revolver cannon, a semi automatic rifle with a well working gas system, new airplane designs, and so forth.
But coming back to this revolver: it was cheap and obsolete by the time it was issued. But if you got shot with it - you were dead. You won't end up deader if you were shot by a double action revolver.
all true but the one thing you miss is all military's are slow to pick up new ideas! and all governments would rather waste money on foolishness rather thn on something that needs money spent on it!!!
Using money on sidearms is foolishness x)
Gun Nutty Your assessment of OKW is completely, demonstrably false.
Your description of the Prussian system is an oversimplification that physically hurts.
How about you do some research before writing on these topics?
The pistol did actually play a major role in World War 1 for trench raids, a role that this gun failed miserably
Europe wouldn't be nearly so interesting if you guys didn't have a bunch of castles everywhere.
If there ever was a gun I'd genuinly feel bad for, this is the one.
I have the Italian Bodeo revolver. 1886. M mine was manufactured in 1923. It's basically the same, except the Italians did put on a simple little device to push the cartridges out and it is double action.
But dont have trigger guard so safety was little worse but better than glisentti
I'd like to see a review of the Waffenfabrik Bern 1882.
It posts on Tuesday.
Gun Jesus had spoken!
Forgotten Weapons
Incredible :) Thanks.
This revolver kinda reminds me of a Charter Arms Bulldog that I had for years (and got stolen). Nothing fancy, just meat & taters, but reliable, hard hitting & tough as a $2 steak. Miss the old Bulldog and am now looking to replace it.
Since it was presumably so cheap and easy to manufacture I wonder why they didn't maybe attempt to issue these to every soldier along with their standard rifle, you know as a backup or something.
"Toyota Hilux of revolvers"
Pre 2005 hilux I'm sure he means.
I bet that if this is gonna be in Battlefield 1, it's slow reload will be balanced with a high amount of damage. Battlefield 1 recently got an update that allows a custom server to have a weapons setting called "Standard Issue Rifles", which forces all of the classes to use their country's standard Issue, iron-sights only, bolt-action rifle as their primary weapon. The only attachment that players can put on their rifle is a bayonet.
Its a beautiful morning for some forgotten weapons, I should be studying for my last final exam, but hey...
this is the voice of your parents and college loans. QUIT EFFING AROUND AND STUDY !!!!!!!
Will you do a video about the Bodeo 1889?
at least the game has brought up some added interest in old firearms from a younger crowd. Can't complain about that!
azriel deathweave He is in the credits of BF1....
I'd love to see this perform in a two gun match against a comparable era revolver with a similar loading method.
You gotta admit, this was a BIG improvement from percussion revolvers!!
At least it is possible to make casings from modern ones. Not sure how custom the bullets are, or if a typical .429-.430" cast bullet will work. Let's hear it for Pyrodex P. Glad you could shoot it. Vintage guns are always fun and interesting. Great video as always. Thank you
7am, you uploaded right on time Ian. :) love your videos and upload time. keep up the great work.
Recommended CCW or home defense for the eccentric gentleman? But seriously, where do you get this ancient ammo from?
Brendan N .44 Remington cases, cut down and fitted with a custom handforged bullet.
in fact in France, we've got a few of those and we shoot regular .44 Russian in them or shortened .44 magnum.
Fear the man who defends his home with a black powder revolver. He is crazy and will stop you dead.
hand loading I your only source Ian said it was 44mag. brass!!! and frankly, I wouldn't trust ammo over 20yrs.old unless I stored it myself!!!!!
This isn't a gun for a gentleman. This is a cheap mass-produced side-arm for the lowly infantryman who likely won't need it much so that doesn't matter.
Germany and Europe in general has a tradition of very finely crafted firearms for the real gentleman.
Very interesting, it would be nice to see what it can do on paper at, say, 10 - 15 yards and a rough penetration test on wood. As a sidenote, still working after almost a century and a half looks like a good quality to me. An updated reproduction could just be an effective outdoorsman gun.
That makes the webblys look modern.
I thought the reichsrevolver was originally meant for cavalry? Then cav was obsolete so infantry used them sometimes. I thought the idea was that you wouldn't really need more than six shots at a time on horseback, so they were never meant to reload right away. just to fire six shots if you need them and then charge with the sabre. Am I wrong? Thought I heard this somewhere.
Watching smoke billowing from a newly emptied chamber is quite the opening.
I think it is perfect for the kind of shooting you were doing. The bullets did hit the desert after all. Now shooting a more specific target may have been far more difficult. Perhaps it redefines Horse Pistol, " A pistol which, can hit a horse within range. "
Mae's opinions on the 1879 on C&Rsenal are magnificent.
The sight is designed to be shot single handed,hence it shooting high when you are over powering it with a double grip,sights of that time are based on them being shot single handed.
Death grip should make it hit low, you got it backwards.
The Model 1879 Reichsrevolver was designed mainly for cavalry.
So the safety catch was probably so that carry the revolver would be safe, with all six chambers loaded, when riding fast cross-country.
And yet, to be contextual, the Soviets were still issuing an even worse revolver half a century later that shot a stupid cartridge and for all intents and purposes was also single action. But when the nagant revolver is mostly being put to kneeling civilians and POWs, what difference does it make?
Thank you Ian, love the channel. I recommend it to all my friends, and at least 4 of us now watch on the everyday regular.
That first person firing sequence was nice
5:37 - I was wondering about the ammunition. Is this something so rare that even Fiocchi won't touch it? Supposedly Starline will custom-headstamp your brass for you if you have a large enough order, so maybe that's a way to get some "genuine" Reichsrevolver brass out there.
I suspect this pistol was something along the lines of _pour encourager les autres_ and for desperation at point blank range. Reloading under combat conditions would be difficult to say the least, and I'd rather have a Webley, thank you very much.
IIRC Erich Maria Remarque's character in "All Quiet on the Western Front" is issued with an old revolver at one point. I suspect this was probably it.
IIRC, you need to order at least 10,000 rounds to get your own headstamp.
Mine chambers 44 Russian and cut down 44 Specials. I need to find a source of the bullets since they are about 0.420.
Universal disassembly tool could also work for casing removal.
HiLux? That truck name was phased out in by 1975 and from brochures in 1973. Only a feriner would be familiar with that name, or someone with a really good memory. Remember the Chevy LUV? That was based on the Isuzu Faster. Datsun sold a pick up called the Little Hustler.
Would you rather have to use this or an 1895 nagant revolver?
That Kaco shirt gave me nightmares. horrible failure rate about 45% of them failed of the 1500 inverters we have installed.
The sights may be regulated to 100 yards (meters?). This was not unheard of in 19th century military pistols.
Saw your Instagram post. Looking forward to seeing how you perform at the match!
The holster has an ammunition pouch and it has a belt buckle with a pin similar to a waist belt, it takes forever to get it loose, I don’t know who thought that was a good idea.
General rule: Mainland European service revolvers suck. The bodeo and reichsrevolver were comically obsolete. The Nagant is the nagant. Everyone else was using something that fired a really wimpy cartridge. The only exceptions I've seen have been Gasser revolvers (which were at best on par with the colt saa) and Russian Model 3s (which I guess aren't even European)
andyrihn1 you got it right.
hell Europe has really never had much of a pistol history as far as being world beaters!!! although I guess the Germans and Brits could be considered an exception to that!!! to tell you the truth I think most of Europe had gone metro-sexual long before that term was coined, say at least a 125yrs. before!!!
did you forget the webley .455?
wrong, .45 acp (standard US army load) has a taylors formula of 12, while millitary load .455 has a taylors formula of 13
and thats forgetting loads like the mk3 manstopper which was a wad-cutter hollow-point or the mk4 load which was a plain wad-cutter
+Robbie Dickson Other then how shockingly incorrect this is, let me lay some knowledge onto you.
455 Webly has a MAXIMUM pressure rating of 13,000 PSI, 45 ACP has nearly twice that, at 21,000 PSI
the MK3 was droped in 1900 due to hauge convention issues, bringing back the MK2, 265 Grains at roughly 700 ish feet per second, so significantly below that of 45ACP.
and in the 1939 update to the 455 as the MKVI bought it up a little bit higher then that......still well below that 230 Grain 45 ACP.
Notice how Weblys converted to 45ACP tend to not survive long for a reason, they are flatout dangerous to fire as 45 ACP is in the MAJORITY of cases significantly higher pressure.
To put this into even better perspective, the hottest 45ACP hand load will cause a cylinder failure in a webly revolver thats converted to 45ACP.
It is typically German in its design for how it would probably be used. It's likely to be carried for decades without any attention. Then in an emergency it absolutely needs to work even after years of neglect. If you need more than five cartridges your screwed anyway. Or you may very well still have a sword back then.
Loved that you fired it. I’m reloading black powder cartridges for mine. Cheers.
Funny that you mention the 1873 SAA. A decade older and far more superior. Better grips, good ejection system, decent sights - etc. You should try and get your hands on a 7th cavalry SAA and talk about it!
I love this gun so much! Just sheer simplicity and reliability!
There! I have found my new CCW handgun.
Probably the Italian 10.4mm Bodeo and the Swiss 1878 revolver also in 10.4mm would have been in the same league as the American, British and German guns.
same bore but different loads!! you'd need the specs. side by side to determine that!!!
The .45 Long Colt probably has an edge over the rest.
The whole Reich revolved around it..
its cool to see guns 6x older then me still run, amazing
This revolver definitely represents the darkest hour of Imperial German Military Firearms adoption.
When I was in Cowboy Action Shooting, one of the people who shot where I did used one of these as his second revolver.
Just because it is so ugly and plain, I really sort of want one of those to hang on the wall of my RV. Only problem, I occasionally hit California and, well I just don't want the grief of having to lock her away for my movement through that State. Usually if I must enter California, I park my RV in Arizona and unhitch my Ford Edge to drive into that State, leaving my M1911A1 locked away in the RV. This is really stupid though since California has twice the crime rate as Arizona, and that's where you really NEED a firearm, but I ramble on. Thanks for the great video. Perhaps some day you can get into forming the brass for such a conversion from .44 Mag to the German round.
We get used to seeing German technology that is cutting edge...Was it a Friday afternoon when they thought this one up? :D
Nice to see you out in the field shooting again. :-)
My thought on this is: This is mainly a Rank Insignia/Decorative Uniform Piece and it's only practical purpose is to shoot deserters. Well for that you only need one round and accuracy is meaningless at sub 20 feet. Nobody was ever expected to actually fight anybody with this. If you are someone carrying one those and it has come down to you fighting yourself, there will be enough rifles lying around for you to pick up. And if you think about it like that then reload speed, accuracy, firing speed, double action, etc. they are all meaningless. The only things that matter are Ruggedness, Safety and one (headshot) kill ability. And it has all that.
So awesome that you can show us this, thank you!!!
German Ordinance procurement in the 1800's "We need a rock, if it shoots out some pointy bits, so much the better"
Lost it at "u have to use a seperate manual ejector which is basically, thechnical speech for, a stick." lmfao
It doesn't ever break and it goes bang
That was great to see. I have the same one and am thinking about firing it. Buffalo Arms sells blackpowder .44 Russian ammo. Do you have any experience firing .44 Russian from a reichrevolver?
That is a cool old relic. Yes certainly not a favourite weapon but definitely a unique piece to anyone's collection
Wow, that sucks. Was it made for the Marines or the Rangers? They're probably drooling ar the mouth over how much that sucks.
why make something new and fancy?
The talks prob. went like this:
'we need a revolver'
'yes, but make it cheap and durable, so it can bridge the time when we adapt the Luger in 30years'.
Clairvoyance at its finest!
Ian often talks about the bad sight pictures on old guns. As someone who doesn't shoot but likes guns because of this channel, I'm curious if anyone would be willing to explain what makes a good sight picture vs a bad one, and why older guns seemed to universally have bad ones?
Well, they should be visible - the old guns almost all have small notches.
The First Person point of view is a nice touch to this video!
But with that poor sight alignment its obvious that he wasnt hitting anything
I’ve held a resin cast copy of one. The grip is pretty unusual and the sights are beady.
Man you should make some and sell them
I'd like to see a ordnance soap comparison on this gun vs the Webly and the Colt 45 .
Never heard Ian say 'sucks' so many times in one video. :)
It may suck but I want one!
-Jen
After watching your Dryse pistol video, I'd take this over the Dryse.
It was cool seeing the black powder smoke coming out the barrel.
Would like to see you do an episode on pre 1900 American and European revolvers. From the man stoppers to the truly anemic.
I've seen original holsters around, but most are converted to accept P08s. I'm sure you could still get a Reichsrevolver in there
One of the few revolvers worse than the Nagant.
Not at all. It has every problem the nagant does almist identically EXCEPT that the nagant uses a really weak shitty 32 caliber cartridge with less stopping power than a black powder cap and ball 36 caliber or FMJ target 9mm. This on the other hand is using a round that is identical to the 44 russian which was the black powder version of 44 special and is an extremely accurate round (in a good gun) and has the same knockdown power as 45 acp/BP 45 LC ammo. Simply put this is overall what would happen if the nagant actually killed people when you shot them with it lol.
The only good virtue of the Nagant is it's supressable
Very nice nostalgic design slow to reload and actually quite a safe design ..and pretty good stopping power considering its age and many of the similar sidearms of the era .. You used a finer black powder granulation than it prefers . hence the shooting high
there's something oddly beautiful about guns like this, so simple and basic.
Hey Ian, enjoyed your magasine videos you uploaded the past week. Would you consider maybe doing some videos on ammunition history and evolution(Highly enjoy your history bits of your videos)? Started following a while back, Great videos, keep up the awesome work!
Ph Ol I know I would personally like to see what flèchette ammunition actually looks like in a larger calibre. All those obscure tests would be very interesting.
we should do one on experimental guns that were never really used.
Of course by fanning the hammer it will shoot as fast as a machine gun. An advantage of a single action. I saw a man who could fire accurately in this manner. I'm sure the video is on TH-cam.
Thanks for the cool video! Obviously an obsolete pistol, but still really cool. I'll add it to my "when I win the lottery" list!
That is certainly a unique revolver. Definitely reliable, but I'd rather carry a Nagant than that. If I had to choose though it would be a .45 Schofield I carry over this. The webleys are really nice revolvers. I'd like to get my hands on the family of them.
I know it sucks, but I want one so bad.
Best "lane" in the Red Rocks shooting area.
Reason this had no ejector rod and single action only was the German theory that the pistol was last ditch weapon
as only cavalry, officers and a few senior NCO were given handgun , these also were armed with swords which were
considered their primary side arms, Figured that if had to resort to pistol things were out of hand and if could not resolve situation with 6 shots probably not going to survive anyways