I still think he should have his -1 to wound and extra sweep damage back. He still falls short when fighting the big, marquis monsters that he's supposed to be hunting. Heck, give him the DWK treatment with anti-monster/vehicle. Wouldn't bother me if his points went up to accommodate something like that; I just want him to be able to trade effectively with other marquis threats. Thanks for the video )
Old Man Johnson can also Deepstrike to represent his Forest Walk. I think it is intriuging to Rapid Ingress him in, but feels like a bad idea 9/10 of the times.
An issue with running any primarch, Imperium or Chaos, is that your opponent will tend to target them for exterminotus early and often. The inly one with a viable work around is Angron. The Lion is a walking "SHOOT ME!" sign. The Lion is awesome in melee but can be tied up with chaffe as you play the points and erase the rest of the army characters.
He was a bit dissapointing when the codex came out, but last patch really helped him out indirectly. His ability for FNP 4+ now working against devs wounds is realllllly big. You also have that Primarchs can walk through ruins, which allows him better mobility and ability to get more charges off. And on top of that heroic Intervention being only 1 CP makes him sooooo much better, since they cant avoid charging him. They can't charge a unit nearby to him otherwise he will charge them back and fight first most likely wiping them out.
@@damiencooper yes you do. You don't gain the fight first that comes with the usual charge bonus. But Lion has Fight first naturally. So he will indeed get to fight first
I would like him to either get the -1 to wound back or the +1 damage on sweep back. I don’t think he needs both and I’d prefer the -1 to wound more since it will lean identity of being the tough duelist over guiliman being the damage based primarch if he goes up in points that’s fine but he does kind of lack in that primarch niche super power that the other four primarchs have.
It doesn’t make sense from a lore perspective that gulliman would outdamage the lion in combat. Of all the primarchs, the lion is the one who is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with the others and come out on top. He is literally a demon slayer. He fights fresh returned chaos roided angron 1v1 and wins without many complications, and this is with him being aged severely out of his prime. The fact that the lion can’t rip thru a space marine profile like butter on the tabletop makes no sense. It also doesn’t make any sense that his strength profile is not enough to at least handle large monster/daemon models in an efficient manor. I would say that he should be wounding everything in the game at least on 3s. His aura abilities are still bad besides the mortal wound denial, but it is kinda boring. And all the emporers shield does is give him the ability to shove a mortal onto a unit when the lion saves on a six in melee. I would say while he is at least somewhat usable in casual play, I still don’t like him in either casual or competitive. His rules and stats are still underwhelming and not very thematic. I think he is solely carried by fights first. The fact of the matter is that when I see angron across the table, all I can think about is avoiding charging him and not wanting to fight him. Why? Because he will chew whatever u put into him up in one turn for the most part. I feel like the lion should have that same approach, while obviously being a bit less of an exaggerated idea than what angron is. The lion is very unique in that he is not only able to annihilate fodder and elite enemy variants, but he can even put the top dogs of the enemy 40K factions in the dirt on his worst performing days. I think the lion needs to be a combat powerhouse that has rules solely designed around minceinf enemy priority targets (tough, high wound, hard hitting lynchpins) or he should keep his mediocre combat profile and his rules need to be changed to fit a more commander/general oriented profile like gulliman. Cause right now, he feels like he doesn’t really do much to buff his army and he doesn’t really feel like he can dish out the pain that his points cost would be exemplify.
@@lupticyt5016 a lot of things in game doesn’t make sense from a lore perspective. In game you follow the lore if you can but also need to make decisions based on gameplay balance and when the lion does have fights first him being able to outright murder most things in a single round of combat becomes a problem. Gameplay wise Robute already out damaged the lion before the nerf, they made Robute the raw damage based primarch so then make the lion the tanky primarch that while still scary in a fight is more about sustained dueling. As of right now the lion with his current stat spread would be best functioning in a similar role to the C’Tan units of being durable enough to create that debate of whether I’m going to even try to delete him or if I’m just going to try and tie him up in combat. Tabletop should be supplemented by the lore and vice versa but you can’t have it be the driving factor behind your decisions otherwise you have to reevaluate more than half of the units in the game at the moment which just isn’t practical from a design perspective.
![[spoons rattling]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/kK0ImpnBMDmgB97euIZYZZYy1c-EOAMrjHYmNcT4Bkkyrhxril0cWgsMaGBXRF2cOLEqHT6Y=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
Jack-A-Dandy was a nice touch.
I still think he should have his -1 to wound and extra sweep damage back. He still falls short when fighting the big, marquis monsters that he's supposed to be hunting. Heck, give him the DWK treatment with anti-monster/vehicle. Wouldn't bother me if his points went up to accommodate something like that; I just want him to be able to trade effectively with other marquis threats. Thanks for the video )
Old Man Johnson can also Deepstrike to represent his Forest Walk. I think it is intriuging to Rapid Ingress him in, but feels like a bad idea 9/10 of the times.
Luckily his rapid ingress got alot scarier since he can move through ruins now
@@jordantrudel1502 Lion O'Yea'Johnson.
An issue with running any primarch, Imperium or Chaos, is that your opponent will tend to target them for exterminotus early and often. The inly one with a viable work around is Angron. The Lion is a walking "SHOOT ME!" sign. The Lion is awesome in melee but can be tied up with chaffe as you play the points and erase the rest of the army characters.
In the rock
The mighty rock
The Lion sleeps toniiiiiiiight
He was a bit dissapointing when the codex came out, but last patch really helped him out indirectly. His ability for FNP 4+ now working against devs wounds is realllllly big.
You also have that Primarchs can walk through ruins, which allows him better mobility and ability to get more charges off. And on top of that heroic Intervention being only 1 CP makes him sooooo much better, since they cant avoid charging him. They can't charge a unit nearby to him otherwise he will charge them back and fight first most likely wiping them out.
Dang I never realized that, Heroic Intervention will be very scary if Lion use that...
You don’t get to fight first with heroic intervention though
Don't have to, Lion already have Fight First ability.
@@damiencooper yes you do. You don't gain the fight first that comes with the usual charge bonus. But Lion has Fight first naturally. So he will indeed get to fight first
@@NBeaver-bx4yl oh. He does? The video didn’t mention it I believe. My bad
I would like him to either get the -1 to wound back or the +1 damage on sweep back. I don’t think he needs both and I’d prefer the -1 to wound more since it will lean identity of being the tough duelist over guiliman being the damage based primarch if he goes up in points that’s fine but he does kind of lack in that primarch niche super power that the other four primarchs have.
It doesn’t make sense from a lore perspective that gulliman would outdamage the lion in combat. Of all the primarchs, the lion is the one who is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with the others and come out on top. He is literally a demon slayer. He fights fresh returned chaos roided angron 1v1 and wins without many complications, and this is with him being aged severely out of his prime. The fact that the lion can’t rip thru a space marine profile like butter on the tabletop makes no sense. It also doesn’t make any sense that his strength profile is not enough to at least handle large monster/daemon models in an efficient manor. I would say that he should be wounding everything in the game at least on 3s. His aura abilities are still bad besides the mortal wound denial, but it is kinda boring. And all the emporers shield does is give him the ability to shove a mortal onto a unit when the lion saves on a six in melee. I would say while he is at least somewhat usable in casual play, I still don’t like him in either casual or competitive. His rules and stats are still underwhelming and not very thematic. I think he is solely carried by fights first. The fact of the matter is that when I see angron across the table, all I can think about is avoiding charging him and not wanting to fight him. Why? Because he will chew whatever u put into him up in one turn for the most part. I feel like the lion should have that same approach, while obviously being a bit less of an exaggerated idea than what angron is. The lion is very unique in that he is not only able to annihilate fodder and elite enemy variants, but he can even put the top dogs of the enemy 40K factions in the dirt on his worst performing days. I think the lion needs to be a combat powerhouse that has rules solely designed around minceinf enemy priority targets (tough, high wound, hard hitting lynchpins) or he should keep his mediocre combat profile and his rules need to be changed to fit a more commander/general oriented profile like gulliman. Cause right now, he feels like he doesn’t really do much to buff his army and he doesn’t really feel like he can dish out the pain that his points cost would be exemplify.
@@lupticyt5016 a lot of things in game doesn’t make sense from a lore perspective. In game you follow the lore if you can but also need to make decisions based on gameplay balance and when the lion does have fights first him being able to outright murder most things in a single round of combat becomes a problem. Gameplay wise Robute already out damaged the lion before the nerf, they made Robute the raw damage based primarch so then make the lion the tanky primarch that while still scary in a fight is more about sustained dueling. As of right now the lion with his current stat spread would be best functioning in a similar role to the C’Tan units of being durable enough to create that debate of whether I’m going to even try to delete him or if I’m just going to try and tie him up in combat. Tabletop should be supplemented by the lore and vice versa but you can’t have it be the driving factor behind your decisions otherwise you have to reevaluate more than half of the units in the game at the moment which just isn’t practical from a design perspective.