Great videos, I've been doing lost P LA for 3 years now on cast aluminum robotic parts. I think everyone is missing the point on PLA burn out. The Secret is not to burn out but to let the P LA slowly dripped out . This is accomplished At a 180 C depending on your fillment over a longer period of time. I typically run my electric kiln for 12 to 19 hours. After this time the shell is extremely clean with only small residue . And when you go to bisque temp it ends up extremely clean. Also this is less toxic for the environment because the P LA comes out still and it's plastic state.
I agree that if parts can be sprued directly so the pla has a straight path to flow out that a great first approach although more complicated patterns will need micro vents (drain holes). Still trying out PVB, needs a higher temp but turns to a gas faster (less dependent on flowing out.
I've been mulling this over for a while. It seems to me two things are clear: Lost wax is the best material to cast with, as it has a low melting point and little residue. The other thing is that a lot of PLA-based 3D prints are not good, with horrible "staircasing" etc. However, resin-based printers are a lot better, but the material is not good for casting. So how about an intermediate stage using a 2-part silicone mix to cast a resin print into wax? I am pretty sure silicone would withstand the temperature of melted wax, but if not, a plaster intermediary would. What are your thoughts?
You are correct, wax is still your best choice for creating patterns that can be burned out. The waxes are also easier to produce. The stair-casing is an aesthetic concern, not a functional one. Printing on a resin printer for better resolution is a good choice and there are a number of silicon mold rubbers on the market both tin and platinum cure, that are great at capturing all the detail and handling the temps needed for casting wax. But making silicon molds is an extra expense. For me, there are a number of times when I only need one casting (not multiples) or the object i print is too complicated to make a rubber mold of. Its At these times that I find it more efficient to burnout out my prints.
@@LunarburnStudio I agree that polycast works really good, PLA seams to get some pieces stuck in the mold after the burnout. I use SRS Classic investment and I use the burnout cycle that they have on their website. 730 degrees celsius at the max.
@@LunarburnStudio using a homemade recipe, since i cant get hands on commercially grade investment. my burnout is: 1hr 100deg, 1hr 200deg, 2hrs 500deg, 5hrs 700deg. the polycast leaves nothing behind, my regular PLA leaves alot of ash behind
I have been fixated on the temp of the burnout, but from your results and others using standard investment it would seem the length of the burn is also critical. Ill add that variable to trails.
Hi Eric, So excited to see you pop-up while searching for lost PLA. Just starting to experiment with it and look forward to viewing your videos. Binged watched last night, nice Burn out Kiln BTW. Happy to see your channel doing so well. I'll reach out and maybe have a beer and catchup. Good to see you friend(at least on video) Cheers, Bob
Another thought...hybrid approach: You can make a re-usable silicone mold off of PLA (or whatever other filament or even resin you choose) patterns. Then use the silicone mold to cast multiple wax patterns. The 3D printed pattern can be as many pieces as you need to create and print the geometry and remove it from the silicone pour without an excessive number of cuts. You get the 3D printer to create the complex geometry and digitally store your work for future use. You only have to clean up (sandpaper etc.) one print. Then you get wax patterns to leverage all your experience with wax when dipping shells, burnouts, casting, etc. So maybe just think of the 3D-printer as an easier path to making complex molds for things you don't have a physical object to pull a mold from. Not my original idea....this is how they make turbocharger wheels these days.
Hi Eric, just thought I'd pass on some info that may be of help - R&R recommends not firing a fused silica based shell to over 1750F for 3d printed patterns as the silica turns to cristobalite and weakens the shell. Had not seen that info before so thought it might interest you. Looking forward to seeing you progress with this! Cheers
Thanks for mentioning that. Yes I am aware of that limitation and try to keep my burnout temps below 1700F regardless of what im burning out (wax, 3d prints, other organics)
The cast-able resin works with standard investment with in a steel cage like in jewelry casting. The ceramic shell does not hold up to the expansion of the resin during burnout.
Thanks for video .. which is better for fine engraving or making stamping die in stainless steel .. actually I am trying to make stamping die with lost wax casting ..
@@LunarburnStudio I will put it in other way , I have a stainless steel coin die , I will make its wax model, and I will again cast it into stainless steel .. is it possible ?? Will it take all details ??, Sorry it's bit out of track question .. but use of CNC is very expensive here .. so I am finding cheap way to make die ..
@@anandbafna1511 If you are talking about printing it will depend on the printer. But if you asking will the shell pick up all the detail then the answer is Yes. And the Ceramic works with stainless steel.
Hi! I have 3D printed some items in castable wax and gray V1 from formlabs and they give no ash, but they expand and burst the shell during the burnout. Is that something you will get into in your next video?
I get most on my materials from Remet and Ransom & Randolph, I know both sell internationally. But unfortunately I am not knowledgable about distributers in you part of the world. Sorry
It’s my understanding that 90% of 3D printed patterns in an industrial setting are castable resins/wax’s. The challenge for smaller foundry’s is partly the access to equipment and a volume of resin but also the price. I just bought my first resin printer and realizing that castable resins are crazy expensive. $100-$300 per liter.
I have been wanting to try resin wax prints, but the printers i can afford are on the smaller side and too small at this time to make effective at my foundry other than just play with.
@@LunarburnStudio the original anycubic photon or elegoo mars are both sub $200 (well below £200 here in UK anyway lol) printers of very high quality, with 115x65x165 build volume available (which you can print mostly hollow in to save on resin used) and a 42 micrometer resolution on the xy axis, and a 10 micron on the Z. so I think you'd get some good sized pieces to build a bunch into a big sprue to cast at once from a small bottle :)
I was waiting so bad for the next PLA video when you said in the previous one that you will discuss the burnout process....ehhh....need to wait longer tho :(
What you're doing is so incredible and valuable. Just wanted to say a very heartfelt thankyou!!
This channel is getting more interesting every day!! Thank you!!!! :D
Glad you think so! let me know if you have any questions.
Great videos, I've been doing lost P LA for 3 years now on cast aluminum robotic parts. I think everyone is missing the point on PLA burn out. The Secret is not to burn out but to let the P LA slowly dripped out . This is accomplished At a 180 C depending on your fillment over a longer period of time. I typically run my electric kiln for 12 to 19 hours. After this time the shell is extremely clean with only small residue . And when you go to bisque temp it ends up extremely clean. Also this is less toxic for the environment because the P LA comes out still and it's plastic state.
I agree that if parts can be sprued directly so the pla has a straight path to flow out that a great first approach although more complicated patterns will need micro vents (drain holes). Still trying out PVB, needs a higher temp but turns to a gas faster (less dependent on flowing out.
Those experiments ought to be interesting. Looking forward.
I've been mulling this over for a while.
It seems to me two things are clear: Lost wax is the best material to cast with, as it has a low melting point and little residue.
The other thing is that a lot of PLA-based 3D prints are not good, with horrible "staircasing" etc.
However, resin-based printers are a lot better, but the material is not good for casting.
So how about an intermediate stage using a 2-part silicone mix to cast a resin print into wax?
I am pretty sure silicone would withstand the temperature of melted wax, but if not, a plaster intermediary would.
What are your thoughts?
You are correct, wax is still your best choice for creating patterns that can be burned out. The waxes are also easier to produce.
The stair-casing is an aesthetic concern, not a functional one. Printing on a resin printer for better resolution is a good choice and there are a number of silicon mold rubbers on the market both tin and platinum cure, that are great at capturing all the detail and handling the temps needed for casting wax.
But making silicon molds is an extra expense. For me, there are a number of times when I only need one casting (not multiples) or the object i print is too complicated to make a rubber mold of. Its At these times that I find it more efficient to burnout out my prints.
Looking forward towards that series. I've done a small comparison between PLA and Polycast. The Polycast burns so much cleaner...
What type of investment do you use and what are your burnout temps?
@@LunarburnStudio
I agree that polycast works really good, PLA seams to get some pieces stuck in the mold after the burnout.
I use SRS Classic investment and I use the burnout cycle that they have on their website.
730 degrees celsius at the max.
@@LunarburnStudio using a homemade recipe, since i cant get hands on commercially grade investment.
my burnout is: 1hr 100deg, 1hr 200deg, 2hrs 500deg, 5hrs 700deg.
the polycast leaves nothing behind, my regular PLA leaves alot of ash behind
I have been fixated on the temp of the burnout, but from your results and others using standard investment it would seem the length of the burn is also critical. Ill add that variable to trails.
Lots for us to think about.
Hi Eric, So excited to see you pop-up while searching for lost PLA. Just starting to experiment with it and look forward to viewing your videos. Binged watched last night, nice Burn out Kiln BTW. Happy to see your channel doing so well. I'll reach out and maybe have a beer and catchup.
Good to see you friend(at least on video)
Cheers,
Bob
Thanks for the call and look forward to you visiting my studio. The PLA vs PVB is an interesting challenge but opens the door to complex patterning.
Another thought...hybrid approach: You can make a re-usable silicone mold off of PLA (or whatever other filament or even resin you choose) patterns. Then use the silicone mold to cast multiple wax patterns. The 3D printed pattern can be as many pieces as you need to create and print the geometry and remove it from the silicone pour without an excessive number of cuts. You get the 3D printer to create the complex geometry and digitally store your work for future use. You only have to clean up (sandpaper etc.) one print. Then you get wax patterns to leverage all your experience with wax when dipping shells, burnouts, casting, etc.
So maybe just think of the 3D-printer as an easier path to making complex molds for things you don't have a physical object to pull a mold from.
Not my original idea....this is how they make turbocharger wheels these days.
I totally agree, if I have to cast more than just a few copies it is more efficient to make a proper mold.
Hi Eric, just thought I'd pass on some info that may be of help - R&R recommends not firing a fused silica based shell to over 1750F for 3d printed patterns as the silica turns to cristobalite and weakens the shell. Had not seen that info before so thought it might interest you. Looking forward to seeing you progress with this! Cheers
Thanks for mentioning that. Yes I am aware of that limitation and try to keep my burnout temps below 1700F regardless of what im burning out (wax, 3d prints, other organics)
would love to see the followup to this
Working on it, sorry for the delay.
Have you ever used resin printers/ burnout casting resin?
The cast-able resin works with standard investment with in a steel cage like in jewelry casting. The ceramic shell does not hold up to the expansion of the resin during burnout.
Thanks for video .. which is better for fine engraving or making stamping die in stainless steel .. actually I am trying to make stamping die with lost wax casting ..
Sorry I am not sure I understand the question.
@@LunarburnStudio I will put it in other way , I have a stainless steel coin die , I will make its wax model, and I will again cast it into stainless steel .. is it possible ?? Will it take all details ??, Sorry it's bit out of track question .. but use of CNC is very expensive here .. so I am finding cheap way to make die ..
@@anandbafna1511 If you are talking about printing it will depend on the printer. But if you asking will the shell pick up all the detail then the answer is Yes. And the Ceramic works with stainless steel.
Hi!
I have 3D printed some items in castable wax and gray V1 from formlabs and they give no ash,
but they expand and burst the shell during the burnout. Is that something you will get into in your next video?
I will totally explain some the reasons and some solutions from cracking shell due to the expansion of 3d printed patterns. Stay tuned!
Looking forward to see a real lost material for easy 3d printing.
Still testing and putting the videos a together. Stay tuned.
Where can I buy ceramic coatings
I get most on my materials from Remet and Ransom & Randolph, I know both sell internationally. But unfortunately I am not knowledgable about distributers in you part of the world. Sorry
I think wax castable resins and resin 3d printers are the future because of resolution.
It’s my understanding that 90% of 3D printed patterns in an industrial setting are castable resins/wax’s. The challenge for smaller foundry’s is partly the access to equipment and a volume of resin but also the price. I just bought my first resin printer and realizing that castable resins are crazy expensive. $100-$300 per liter.
This art channel is also a science channel, with a little linguistic exploration on the side. Full STEAM ahead.
Thxs man for the encouragement!
Why about wax based resins for ceramic shell casting, they apparently expand similar to wax ;)
I have been wanting to try resin wax prints, but the printers i can afford are on the smaller side and too small at this time to make effective at my foundry other than just play with.
@@LunarburnStudio the original anycubic photon or elegoo mars are both sub $200 (well below £200 here in UK anyway lol) printers of very high quality, with 115x65x165 build volume available (which you can print mostly hollow in to save on resin used) and a 42 micrometer resolution on the xy axis, and a 10 micron on the Z. so I think you'd get some good sized pieces to build a bunch into a big sprue to cast at once from a small bottle :)
I ask, because I'm going to experiment with this concept shortly for smallish jewellery and mechanical parts :)
@@noviceartisan ill look into them.
Those printers are a little small for i normally work on, but maybe a good place to start playing with.
I was waiting so bad for the next PLA video when you said in the previous one that you will discuss the burnout process....ehhh....need to wait longer tho :(
Working on the burn out videos now. they will be upload next. Sorry for the delay.
@@LunarburnStudio Im just too impatient 😉
have these been uploaded yet? i.e. lost pla to ceramic shell burnout and casting? @@LunarburnStudio
Cera isso
yes thats an option