90% Metal Filament Review-Virtual Foundry
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Virtual Foundry offers 90% metal filament in copper, bronze and brass. They were kind enough to send a spool of their bronze and two samples of their copper for review.
Virtual Foundry Homepage:
www.thevirtualfoundry.com/
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I took another go at this filament and the sintering process in this video with much more success: th-cam.com/video/VJRd0zTegAU/w-d-xo.html
Hey, can u do another vid now that they have steel i want to see if they improve
Hey bud try heating the role up with a heat gun to make it flexible
A tip i have read is to disable retraction as well
4/14/19 More description/thorough Updated. I just got a 1kg copper roll a couple weeks ago. This is the 8th generation I believe. I changed some settings with the speed mainly and extrusion rate had to be turned up a bit. I am printing on glass heated bed at 60C and extruder is at 225C. I also am using a .6mm stainless steel nozzle. I am also using the Filamet (proprietary name for Virtual Foundry's filament) FilaWarmer that Virtual Foundry sells. I am printing copper medallions for a greek festival, for our school, coming up. The metal shine comes out with wire brush and sandpaper or the right bristle/grinding attachments for a rotary tool. It hasn't broke on me once yet. I had an earlier generation, what Virtual Foundry called their 2nd generation. I had that for a couple years before I tried using it. It was brittle and behaved like yours in the video. The new product is great! I have it printing as smoothly and successfully as PLA. I am and have only printed medallions though that are about 55mm in diameter and 6.5mm tall.
RIG UP A HAIRDRYER DIRECTLY TO THE REEL JUST BEFORE THE FILAMENT COMES OFF THE ROLL. PERHAPS IT NEEDS TO WARM THE BINDER A LITTLE TO ALLOW IT TO FLEX MORE.
A good point: the temp and/or relative humidity may be something that requires tight control...
By engineering book reference, strength on part comes from sintering where molecules of microscopic metal balls fuse under heat. The 10% space between balls is where gaseous conversion of the binding material leaves the printing.
By observation, the cross-section on can o' beans is 3X part size. Guessing it should probably be 1.5X or less in horizontal and vertical directions. Try again, like Colonel Sanders...No i have not personally used these products.
Thank you for the review. I am sure that with your review of the product the manufacturer will likely do some more research and work on the problems that you faced.
I have a3d printer and a programmable kiln. I'd love to get a sample to try it out.
Personally, I would be weary of breathing in the fumes if your printer is in a room in your house.
I found your review and I can definitely say they have reformulated it for sure I had no breaks and other then the one fail that was more my fault it printed very nice now the polish and sintering process I've yet to tackle but now that the weather is getting nice I'll be finishing my kiln project and maybe give it a go then but good video and thanks for checking out mine :0 Happy printing and be safe pouring
Thank you for this review!!! I'll stay away from this filament unless I have access to a kiln and they improve their filament strength :)
Did you try heating the roll of filament to soften it?
This manufacturer was at Milwaukee Maker Faire last fall, and every 3D Printer in the place was trying their samples, and I did not see one successful print from any of these very experienced 3d printers.
Nice video. This would be soooo good - if it worked.
I know I'm late to the party but you could try aiming a hair dryer at the roll to warm it up a bit so it's more flexible and less prone to breaking.
I'd expect the magic black powder to be mostly charcoal powder (with a bit of calcium sulphate (rotten egg smell) to act as a binder) to prevent oxidation of the metal - on the outside it would turn to ash. This is used in PMC sintering which is very similar to this, except using a sculptable clay like material (i've managed to sinter bronze and copper PMC with a creme brulee blow torch, pile of crushed barbeque charcoal and empty tuna fish can - more kitchen than foundry :) )
can you anneal the finished model? that may help with the brittleness a little bit
tbh i think a bowden extruder is the best idea for this type of material, because it supports it as it goes though the tube to the hotend
Tried it, filament broke in the tube.
Can you do lost was printi g of a desk top printer. If so which printer do you have
How is the filament brittleness affected by humididititties? Maybe this will be a case where you *don't* want to keep your roll in a dessicator?
Hey! I have every filament from them and am setting up to print them now!
Good Luck!
I would seriously suggest printing a custom filament reel to load samples or leftovers into for easier use
is it winter there?
this wouldnt have helped the filament travel as the cold would make it more brittle. try printing it in a warm room or near a heater to warm the filament to a good consistency before unrolling
The black powder is probably calcium sulfide.
That's why it leaves a white crusty exterior when it cures correctly in the oven, and why there's not as much change in it's physical dimensions.
The PLA evaporates out, and some amount of sulfur migrates into the bronze or copper.
That's also why we don't see more of this product used with other metals; this technique doesn't work with really anything other copper and copper rich alloys.
This does tell me something interesting though: PLA burns off in a reducing manner.
At 90% metal, the copper is still probably good for printing circuit boards, especially since the PLA is effectively acting as a type of flux, but lost PLa seems more worth while. It has wider applications, broader materials, and doesn't rely on 'magic powder'.
"I'm not sure what this black magic powder is". Gloves then maybe, na I'm sure you'll be fine.
I am printing 2 foot size objects for a brass chandelier...this sintering process would probably not work. I am using elbow grease and sand paper which works well. Also the stone grinding attachment for a dremel works well for a distressed look, but you can follow up with sanding as well.
Cute cutter.
u tried printing 3d models?
thanks
I'd prefer to 3D print in high detail then mould and cold cast. You get the same weight and looks better
This brings weapon printing on a new level... knuckels, guns, knifes
Might help to warm up the filament rolls.
It probably would, I'll have to try that. That would make the filament at least usable.
Sounds like wisdom.
So... Any luck with light-medium duty parts? EG, An AR-15 lower receiver? Probably not due to brittleness...
Cody Wilson, years ago, was trying to find a way to properly print one with the materials available at the time, but the results were lackluster and the gun usually fell apart after a handful of shots.
I've printed an AR-10 lower out of PLA before just for fun, not functional. Thought about casting it out of aluminum but it would of required a lot of machining. I suppose its possible to print one out of this filament and sintering it. But unless you get the sintering just right the strength just isn't there.
What temperature/humidity was the room at? Do you think that might impact the brittleness of the filament?
Geoff Henry let's see, it was probably about 75F and low humidity. I think that is you preheated the filament that would help. But it has to arrive unbroken to be any good.
You the bean can has a plastic layer inside?
Thanks for the review. I had high hopes for this but I can see there's no point in it for me with a CR-10s and I sold my kiln a few years back anyway. The cost isn't effective.
GhoolerHunter I'm actually doing a follow up video on it right now. had a bit better results with my cr10 but still a lot of broken filament. we will see how the sintering goes with a legit kiln.
What about the mechanical properties of the non-sintered filament? How does it compare to real cast brass/copper?
Almighty11 no, not even close. it has near the weight of cast metal but breaks about as easily as PLA, it might be a bit tougher but close enough to not matter.
would warming up the filament make it less brittle coming off the reel?
I did try this and it helped to a point, however I noticed over heating or heating several times made it more brittle.
I can't see how it would even work without huge shrinkage anyway? Shame to see such a poor result though. I think your lost PLA casting is way more value for money!
Hey Angus! I was thinking the same thing as far as shrinkage. Really enjoying the Fusion 360 tutorials by the way 😀
is it 90 percent by weight or by volume?
Just a rough guess, bit if the model shrinks by the 10% PLA volume, it would make sense if the magic black powder expands through a similar temperature range so that constrained in a can it shrinks the void by 10% or a little more to be sure, and possibly wicks the binder. Basically 'complimentary function to what the model is doing during the process'..
Is it ironic that it smells like rotten egg when he broke the egg?
project tube can you send me your marlin firmware? i tried upgradeing to the lead screws but could not get it right they would go slow or fast even with the right settings so send me your firmware i have the same printer
the density of brass or bronze is around 8.5? meaning 750g are less then 100ml. But it doesnt look like 100ml. There is something very wrong.
I wonder if you annealed the filament in the oven first if it wouldn't break so easily
Kevin Halbert, I think if you annealed the filament first it would likely sinter it and turn the filament into wire and thereby making it impossible to print with it. This is still a great idea but they need to figure out how to put a flexible binder in the mixture that keeps the filament from becoming so brittle.
Kevin Halbert heatgun
gotta try microwaving it
jacker372 really?
@@mikek4610 Hey, some of us really enjoy homemade fireworks, m'kay? 😆
@@nunyabidniz2868 yea...me too....thought i was alone😍
Thanks for the review, did they ever improve it?
They supposedly did and came out with a filament heater. I don't think they want to send me any for a 3rd review though...
@@RealProjectTube Thanx for the update, I was wondering after watching your video if boxing in the still and printer and running a heater would resolve the issue. Would not have thought of just heating the spool out filament en route to head. Hope they send you another sample and this filament heater to test out.
can you polish the items post-print?
N Olesen yes, although it takes a lot of polishing to make it look like solid metal.
By the time you're done if you want a metal finish it would probably be easier to electroplate it.
pre heat the roll helps.
do you know how conductive the filament is?
+Ang Li I think I remeber reading on the virtual foundry FAQ that is it not conductive unless sintered. Too much pla in it to make a consistent electrical path.
The "Magic Black Powder" is Calcium Sulfate, which would be what you're saying smelled like rotten eggs, and carbon dust. Simple, but definitely needed to get it to sinter properly.
If you still have some, I might be able to tell you the composition, roughly, if you can give me the density of the powder.
how strong is the printed bronze stuff? like compared to plastic?
Thedeaconoftrade id say it's just as strong as a pla printed part.
So no strength bennefit from the added metal? It would be neat to see a breaking strength comparison
Thedeaconoftrade I can't see any added strength. I recently got a kiln so I'll be revisiting this filament I'll try to do a strength comparison when I do.
i need specially designed metal tools made at work and there's no way they would go for a 150k+ metal printer when its not used for production.
its only to support the assemblers.
i was hoping you would review the 17-4 filament as the bronze & copper is practically useless for absolutely everything.
also they sell inline filament heaters now that's suppose to help with the breakage.
what is the best 3d printing forum to get help? element 14?
Justin Baker I like the 3d printing group on facebook. I suppose it depends on what excatly you need help with.
Thanks, are you recommending this one? I am trying to make marlin firmware work on ramps 1.4. It doesn't home right. facebook.com/groups/222511188240241/?ref=br_rs
Justin Baker had also issues with ramps and marlin, if st homing all axis just go like a centimeter inverese the end stop logic. After that the axis should drive continues in one direction. If so, change the end stop position to the right configuration (min, max)
is it conductive?
Check out my second video on this, I believe it was conductive.
How brittle is the final product? Can you polish it?
Not that brittle...I haven't done destructive testing on it but seems solid. Supposedly you can buff it up so it looks like solid metal.
Is it suitable for PCB layout?
Has anyone check it's electrical resistance?
alfagulf in my second video on this filament I check the conductivity of it after sintering and the results were not consistent. I doubt it would be useful for electrical circuits.
CONTRARY to normal care for filaments!
Normally keeping humidity from filament is an almost religious effort. But I would note that the breakage issues and makeup of the filament suggest a different problem.
Already 90% of the filament is "moisture free". You are asking the remaining 10% of plastic(?) to do the work of holding the metal together.
I have noted that "weed trimmer" users in desert environments complain bitterly about brittle trimming lines. On the other hand I soak a trimmer spool overnight for use on heavy weeds on the mountain, using the same product, with great longevity.
Drying out the filament that is already brittle is contraindicated. A good soak or even exposure to a humid environment is the next best trial I think.
Using a hot air blower or heater on already dried out filament - probably not so good!
Give it a try. If it makes a huge difference and you post it - you'll be a HERO!!
I would like to see this
Roger Heath isn't wrong. brittle PLA is something people note as a problem in places like Utah.
If you use a sponge rub to remove dust and bits from your filament before going into a hot end, you can easily modify it to apply a thin coating of Glycerin: just soak the felt/sponge in glycerin.
The coating removes alot of the brittleness, but you might trade brittleness for moisture problems.
Humidity in plastic is a problem when melting it, every engineer responsible for an injection molding machine will tell you this. Not only does it form voids because of the steam, but for many the plastic gets broken down chemically. Once the damage has been done, drying it will not help anymore...
Thanks for testing this. I hate to say it, but this can't work. For powdered metal to work, and have any strength at all, you have to reach a temperature where the metal will melt together. At that temperature, the metal won't hold it's own shape. Or in other words, it can't flow together unless it can flow... The solution is to cast metal parts instead. There are guys doing that using 3d printed parts as master for the mold.
200$ for some stainless steel and plastic filiment? Forget that I can make my own, sure it won't be as high quality at first but that's to be expected.
Woo! you could possibly print brass shells? wow!. .l.o.l..
maybe you have to feed it trough a hose. was the egg hollow? something flat like a coin would have propably turned out better
I tried that...broke as soon as I pushed it down the tube.
My wife is an artist and we actually managed to get something printed. It took lots of trying and filament. You must print at about 250 C celcius and half speed and a 0.8 nozzle. We printed before rolling, so you had to lay the filament on the floor and then turn it on continuously. A bit strenuous when the print takes 26 hours to print and the roll should be rotated every half hour. But it worked. Sometimes the nozzle stopped: / and once the nozzle stopped because the filament was over 3 mm thick; (But they have got control. We have not tried to put it in an oven yet.
You can see the result here (No, it's not meant to be an advertisement, but as a consumer information from a 3D -printer user to another). Each part is printed for itself and glued together afterwards
buxbomsart.com/shop/sculptures.html
No More Artist ?
man I can make pipe brass for my home plumbing.
Cw Sayre it's a joke dude.
The 'magic powder' looks like a copper oxide.
3d printed guns?
don't know why but i'm drown to this stuff
Someone gave Bigfoot a 3d printer
too expensive, no any sense, we need a completely new technology for metal printing - i can think only about something combined with induction way to make metals soft, maybe completely new type of extruder made from ceramics or etc.
alex ale we already have different technology that actually works. No need to invent something like that.
It turned white cause you were using a can with an inside coating.
Not their fault it broke during shipping? Of course it is. They should be able to pack it so it isn't damaged during shipping. Lol
nambinhvu I think it's not the shipping...
For the price of that shit and they couldn't put it on a spool? lol
what's the point to posting a video of you didn't follow the instruction and it turns out didn't work? this is wast of my time
Andre ding good I'm glad I wasted your time.
You got a bad batch, hate it when that happens!
BOF !
Huh - I wonder if Virtual Foundry ever sent their product to someone that actually had the equipment to do a proper review...
thom1218 I'm sure a quick search could answer that question. I stated very clearly that the sintering could likely work with a kiln. However that assumes you can get their filament to print without breaking.
Print an AR-15
glue stick or hairspray stop using tape
Now we can print real guns
Buy some gloves for Pete sake.
Steve Laminack quit being a pussy
Buahahahaha. I'm so sorry to anyone who bought this product. Superb idea, but total huge FAIIIIIL of a product. Bad batch or not, there's zero excuse for a bad batch.
They claim it will run in a standard desktop 3d printer, with the same settings as normal PLA. From the company's website:
Filamet™ is the only product on the market today that produces a 90+% metal print on a normal desktop 3D printer. It's that simple. Filamet™ prints with the same print settings as standard PLA filament. If your printer will run PLA, it will run Filamet™.
I'm sure their business model requires that this works in $200 printers. If they need to say "pre-warm this in an 80degC oven, and hit the reel with a hair dryer every 15 minutes" to get reliable prints, then they need to say that. It's really foolish to turn over samples for review, with little chance of success. I'm sure the folks at Virtual Foundry have figured out how to make it work; they just need to lead people by the hand until it just becomes part of the craft.
I don't think "Normal Desktop 3D Printer" includes $160 models... I also think that their definition of "it will run" is not as loose as most hobby 3D operators are used to... Think back to the very first time you ever did a 3D print... was it perfect in every way? Not likely, there were things you had to learn to make it work better, how to tweak settings, and so on... trying to do the same thing with a very temperamental filament right out of the box is liable to be the same... Kudos to Project Tube for identifying and being able to correct for some of those problems so quickly, but loss of "attaboys... In that respect I have to somewhat agree with Jedi Pauly as well, there are several extra steps that would likely make things a bit easier to work with the material and understanding the filament is a part of that, I also think a bit more emphasized cautionary information from the manufacturer might have helped... I think his attitude was less than stellar, but it was a damn sight better than Royce Barber... now THAT turd is an entire waste of good skin... blatantly rude and no clue what the frack he is spouting off about other than his vague premise of "zero excuse for a bad batch"... I *might* lend his monkey mutterings credence when he starts manufacturing filament himself, especially when he ventures into the range of "exotic" filaments... Learn the tools and the tech before you venture into criticism... Overall decent job ProjectTube... Likely you will know better how to handle it if you were to ever try again...
Royce Barber we have now changed it to an even better product
So it's a waste of time and money. Sounds like a scam. Thanks for the warning.
90% my ass
Why did you leave the rubber liner in the can? maybe that was the cause, plus it contains BPA ( it leaches into the food), a carcinogen that causes cancer.
Looks pretty worthless for the $.
Great review, pathetic product. Good job.
Could be good info, but it takes far too long: long-winded explanations, repetitions, irrelevant details, and eventually it fails.
Sorry not everyone is a genius like you.
@@RealProjectTube You don 't have to treat people like they are stupid or toddlers.
@@KarlLambrechts Oh is that what I was doing? I thought I was taking time out of my day to provide a free and honest review of a product for the benefit of my viewers. If you don't like it, don't watch it. In fact, instead of reviewing other peoples review videos why don't you make one of your own.
Fuck bro looks like this company is a flop
please normalize your audio, damn
I hope people don't start printing firearms
People already do lol But I didn't find this filament is any stronger then PLA. I suppose you could print and sinter it but I think when sintering it the model shrinks significantly which wouldn't be that good for precision metal parts like firearms.
Very informative. Getting a foundry suddenly doesn't sound that much of a hassle anymore.
mill and lathe ftw
it's simple to make a firearm with traditional tools. files, drills, lathes etc. 3d printing as is, is more hassle then it's worth. A friend of mine who is a gun smiths apprentice started with a couple diamond files and a drill press.
Can your friend make me a Barret 50?