Perhaps I am a clown. I, however, choose not to stoop to calling other people names simply because they have a difference in opinions to my own. I ask you kindly to do better 😀
Being rude doesn't add weight to your opinion. If anything, it undermines any valid point you may have wished to make, or opinion you wished to express. I would argue that Opera takes years of training and discipline, combined with talent. This is not the case for rap music. ( just talent for rap)
@@Javic167 JLC and Omega make some of the coolest old gold dress watches I've ever seen.... the kind that look like a gold bracelet with a watch built in.... theres several on ebay and chrono 24... usually around $4-8k
Yeah, i don't get why is he repeatedly referenced in this channel. He's loud and impulsive, just the opposite of this channel. Maybe that's exactly why.
Just my personal opinion, but I think the Speedmaster's history with space exploration and NASA is richer than the history of diving, racing, and (debatable) Mt. Everest climbing history of Rolex.
There is No climbing history with Rolex, the watches both climbers were wearing were Smiths, a Rolex may have been taken by some of the team, but it was never an official thing Rolex even admitted lying about it and apologised at the time, Rolex have tried to attach themselves to any significant event, as they are a marketing company who make watches not the other way around
Concur with all, yet I think you were a smidge too tough on Grand Seiko. On styling, bracelets, etc., I agree, but on value for money I think they excel. If you like the styling, I just don’t see anything Swiss that comes close for the price. Just my $.02. Nice video on a useful question.
Yes I agree. The analogy about Grand Seiko being similar to classical music or opera is off as well. Those would be Patek or Vacheron Constantin. Grand Seiko is more like aficionados of Prog.
I find this channel of utmost importance for five reasons : - First, it is completely independent and unbiased. - It reviews particular watches and general particularities of the watches and the brands that many of us don't know of. - It provides useful technicalities to amateur enthusiasts like me without presumptuous views, which is appropriate to most of the viewers which aren't watchmakers. - It gives very realistic views of the Market and its evolution with very frequent upgrades. - Last but not least all of this info is wrapped with excellent sense of humor, rationality and leaving space for the watchers to jump into their own conclusions. Congratulations Mike for this breath of fresh air you give us in a hobby full of certainties in which regards to the claims of many of your counterparts. Cheers
I have a Rolex submariner (no date) and I just can’t stop staring at the dial. The simplicity mesmerizes me. I don’t care what anyone thinks about it, I just absolutely love having it on my wrist, even at home alone.
I am a dial lover, and to me the dial is what draws you into the watch like an attractive woman across the room. From this perspective I absolutely love my Grand Seiko Shunbun/Spring Equinox model with its cherry blossom dial. On the surface, if you have not seen the handiwork that goes into each Grand Seiko watch and its dials, then you cannot begin to appreciate the artisanship that goes into each Grand Seiko. The good news is that Hodinkee recently toured the Grand Seiko factory and wrote an in-depth article with many pictures that will amaze you. You may then ask yourself how does GS put this much handiwork into each model and not charge Patek Philippe prices? Each brand makes about 50-60,000 watches per year.
I sold my Submariner and got a SeaQ and an Omega Seamaster 300 Trilogy 60th anniversary for the money and the two bring me way more joy. Good vid, Mike.
To me the only watches you talked about that are overrated are the Nautilus (boring and insanely expensive with no justification), the Tudor Black Bay 41 (as boring as a third coat of paint and massively unsubtle) and the IWC Pilot (far too expensive for its simplistic design). I do marginally prefer the Aquanaut to the Nautilus, but still ... meh. TOO MUCH MONEY. Personally I always thought the Submariner was kinda blah until I tried one on. Now I own one. The Sub has to be the most perfect watch in terms of design, subtlety and dimensions (not to mention the astounding Rolex oyster bracelet). I put it on and it feels like it melts into my wrist. Plus it absolutely shimmers in the light, and mine is a 1996 model. I think if anything it is an underrated masterpiece. The classic 42mm Speedmaster is beautiful to me, except when I put it on my wrist. Then it looks and feels "wrong". I can't explain why I have this reaction to it, but I have yet to find a 42mm Speedy model that feels right on me. Tag Heuer watches are a little too expensive, though somewhat underrated in general. For me the real problem with Tag is finding a model that meets all my requirements among the BILLIONS of different styles and models they carry. But if you're persistent you will find one eventually. And it will make you happy. Except for the inexplicably terrible bracelets, Grand Seikos are astounding watches. I've got my three GS watches on leather straps, and they all look stunning. LOVE Grand Seiko ... especially the Spring Drive models with the power reserve on the dial. I don't know why, but that looks magical to me. The PRX is awesome for the price. It's hard to find anything comparable and with Tissot's history at a similar price level. Likewise, the Khaki Field Mechanical is a beautiful, astounding watch for the price. Just like the Tissot, you'll be hard pressed to find a similar field watch at the price with Hamilton's history and reputation. Anything made by JLC is, to me, faultless. The Reverso, the Master Control, the Polaris and the Ultra-thin models are almost too perfect for words. Don't get me wrong, they are expensive, but what you get is the horological equivalent of a perfect 5-course Italian meal or a German automobile. Workmanship, design, style and refinement. Amazing!
I can explain by Grand Seiko has those bad bracelets. I guess that contrary to ALL of the Swiss, they refuse to buy them in China, who are the real silent masters of that.
Having lived in Japan, I understand how significant Grand Seiko is. It is a true reflection of Japanese culture and understated elegamce. I adore their watches.
I really like where Tag Heuer is going with their new watches. More COSC certified or in-house movements, higher finishing. They know what direction they have to take.
Even their entry level Carrera's are very well finished. I have a Date 36mm, and I've received more compliments on it than any of my more expensive watches.
I cannot afford the VAST majority of the watches that you speak about, but somehow, you have still garnered an out-sized impact on my opinions on watches.
The whole industry is based on 80-100Y old artifacts - spitfire theme, divers = 98% of people don't know anything about it and don't practice it, flight to the moon or 007, Genta with a integrated bracelet, military field etc. Intended to go for a speedmaster than discovered its not atomatic one, rather 100Y technology?! Are there really no designers these days who can offer a new perspective? Waiting for a really new flash 🙏
Because decades ago we used to dare, all we do from a fresh perspective is seating in front of the desk.... :/ That's why we dream of those adventures.
For me, the Submariner is a big yawn. Also, I doubt that I will ever choose to own any Rolex. It is the aspirational brand of the big-hat-no-cattle crowd, which is why so many are counterfeit, like their owners. For all the supposed excellence in execution by GS, my Snowflake required a repair early in its life.
@@speedracer2please now it takes several guys with broken cuban english to stare at it rub it with thumb and then open the back. tell me when you see a luxery watch in the wild your dont auto think its a fake? always a Dbag in an undersized tshirt and a chain on his neck
(3:51) That Moon watch Grandpa story made me laugh. I salute you Sir. Imagine every Speedy owner hearing that. OH I'd get a kick out the reaction. Especially the young kids who's only knowledge is probably Googling and Tom Hank's Apollo 13 . ( More than likely..)
Or it could be a Gen X'er like me who was unimpressed by anything NASA because I saw the original Star Wars on release date and found real space exploration boring in comparison to the film.
Yeah maybe in Beverly Hills everyone does not own a Rolex Submariner. Not everyone is walking around with a watch that cost 10k this comment is so inaccurate its not even funny
Black Submariners specifically. I saw dozens of them when I worked in the finance industry for a few years. I stopped paying attention after a while and would remember less common watches instead, like Tag Heuer Aquaracer.
@@lonewolfemcquade8133He's not wrong though - Rolex Submariner is the most faked watch in the world. By that token a lot of people have got one. On the flip side most of the genuine watch enthusiasts who would like to get the Submariner at the retail price can't seem to get one.
I bought and wear a sub because I think it’s basically a perfect sports watch. It’s not the most interesting watch I’ve ever had, but it is one I find myself wearing the most. I’ve also never fell in love with the reverso, especially as a monoface, but I really like the master ultra thin moonphase.
At last, a respected voice making the point that "balancing a watch face onto a surface which is inherently round is hard". Maybe it's my newness to watches that means I've not heard others say this before. But this is exactly why I have always personally felt that most Cartiers are extremely poorly designed. Roman numerals are far too "blocky", but also due to their differing lengths they leave some parts of the dial overly busy, whilst leaving others full of gaps, in an unsymmetrical way. Cram all of that into a rectangular shape and it's just a total mess. Each to their own, but I've never understood how people can think the Tank or the Santos etc elegant or well designed. Funnily enough, the one Cartier reference on which I think the roman numerals work as a spectacular piece of design is the Crash - precisely because the imbalance is the whole point of that design.
I didn't know their original movements were as good as Metas-certified ones and genuinely thought they invested in their movements and released it through Metas-approved ones.
The MT5602-U in the new black bay is the exact same as the one in the previous black bays. The way you tell the difference is only in the naming convention. The old ones are called MT5602 (No "U". Which refers to the magnetism piece). Nothing is changed in the movement. That means - Same architecture. - Same materials. - Same specs. - Same shock absorption - Same antimagnetism - Same power reserve The key difference for METAS is fundamentally two things. 1. The movement is tested in the case vs as the movement in isolation (It might be tested more than once - can't be bothered to double check) 2. The accuracy tolerances are more strict. Basically as Tudor get better at mass producing their movements, they'll have increasing confidence that their movements will pass the METAS tests and as they do they'll roll out metas to more and more models. Basically it's a function of "practice makes perfect".
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch A great explanation, really helpful. Myth busting movement marketing might be a good title for a video... not sure what the content would be though. I find it all a bit daunting... I just decide if I like the watch or not... that seems to be the core of your advice and I agree with it... it's a good philosophy.
Love your videos Mike. I think the Grand Seiko Spring Drive is amazing technology and that to me makes it very desirable. I'm to the point in my watch collecting that I'm looking for something different. That's also why I like the Rado ceramic. It's different. Just my humble opinion.
@@TheLute70 GS spring drive and Rado ceramic are two of my life goals, I wonder why I don't hear more about Rado. They're probably the two biggest advancements in watches right now
@@speedracer2please Rado are big in Asia and the Middle East. They have a unique design language, but the movements are off the shelf, which doesn't appeal to watch nerds.
The Cartier hot take is simple: Santos is superior to Tank. The Santos isnt perfect (that scratch magnet bezel) but it looks gorgeous, flowing lines, works in several sizes and takes precious metal options easily. Meanwhile all the "Design Icon" epithets will never cover the fact that the Tank is a rather plain rectangle that cannot take a bracelet to save its life.
Tosh 😂 Tank is THE Cartier watch, but no one has the balls to wear a “ girly “ sized watch….so they buy the Santos…but buy the biggest size they can when the proper size is the medium
I saw the first ten seconds: felt the fire and got myself popcorn to enjoy this. Banger choice of topic and video Mike. Loved the audacity and the respectful restraint. Need a part two 💯🥳
Very interesting video. I recently bought a Seiko presage GMT used for 1/2 retail price. Comparing it other watches around the £5-600. You can see a difference in quality of finishing. What it has made me realise is my taste in watches has changed. About half of my collection I'm happy to sell. The PRX isn't one of them. I think it's well finished wears really well due to a thin case and the automatic movement keeps very good time. There aren't many watches in my collection that can easily be dressed up with a suit or down to smart casual wear. I don't think it's over-rated, just over-exposed.
My friend bought a Rolex and regretting it, no one commenting on him owning it and he has since 3 other watches he likes and could have bought for what he paid for it.
The thing about Rolex is watch geeks are like, well, yes, it's certainly reliable and iconic, and if that's what you love, go for it, but for the money... and normies are like, Huh, you put 5 figures on your wrist. That's nice, i suppose. I mean, it's expensive, but it's not like you have to be a Getty to own one. Good news for him is he can get most of his money back, they have great resale value.
@@TheTejanoJose majority of Rolex owners buy them for the attention and recognition, if people were buying for accuracy and quality Rolex wouldn’t be the company that they are. There are countless very well built accurate watches for significantly less money.
Great video as always Mike - excellent comment re £4,000 and diminishing returns - I know all about personal wealth but I think an interesting and wide collection is between £500 - £7,000 for most bang for your buck and choice. I do include the secondhand market in this to get hands on Glashutte etc
I'm told that the Aquanaut used to be an entry-level cheaper Patek that was hard to sell. The case construction is much simpler than the Nautilus, and until recently the Aquanaut has been an undesirable model
Watches are just like food, GS is like high end Japanese food, simple yet refined, while Rolex is like French cuisine, luxury and famous. There’s better or worse, just choose what you like
@@silkytp789citizen understands what they are you want crazy pretty watch Camponela. You want “The Best” citizen then get “The Citizen” a perpetual calendar until 2100 for 2k titanium solar powered 100m water resistant
It's all in the name. The Citizen brand screams cheap mall watch no matter what they do. Even their higher end designs are let down the second their name is spotted on the dial. I have the same issue with my Casio Oceanus S100. It's a thin light-weight titanium-cased solar-powered atomic clock world timer perpetual calendar. A huge amount of technology under the hood, and an understated elegant design. If the dial simply said Oceanus, it would be amazing. But the dial says Casio Oceanus, and that one word Casio is a real detriment in my mind and the minds of others, because it conjures images of Walmart and ugly plastic watches. It's all down to psychology of a brand and our monkey brains.
@_____nope_____ Yes, but I enjoy how the indices flash in the light...and try to convince myself others are sharing the beautiful moment ( oh, dear - sounding like a hippy.!..).
@@stevens1041 one problem with the spring drive. If you're gonna have quartz at all. Just get a solar casio and enjoy 30 years of not having to adjust your time.. I have a Casio ten years.. haven't adjusted the time in ten years . Still perfect... It's a solar gps that sets it's own time and since it's a gshock it's rated level 3 armor.. stops small to midsized hand gun rounds
@@theyhateme8763 Casio is a great brand, simply because they have their own identity and don't attempt to be anything else. For me, I'm all about the g-shock squares.
I would buy the Tag. I love the dial, color options, the octagon, the price. But I can't get over the cyclops date. Never on my many scuba dives have I wondered what date it was
I still love Seiko. I do not care if people think I am crazy paying $3,000 on multiple models. I do love Glaschutte Original too. With Omega, I love so many models, and I have owned so many, but their prices are getting kind of silly. I would totally buy a reasonably priced sedan gold Aqua Terra, if I can find one.
3:22 "The Rolex Explorer 2 has personality simply because it's the less picked choice" - for better or worse, this reasoning governs not only watches but a vast majority of consumer goods in general. Something reaching a certain level of popularity in the mainstream means other options appear more interesting simply due to being comparatively niche. On topic, I think this maybe relates a bit to the PRX discussed later. I've found while watch spotting outside, it's so common as to have become a bit bland.
Design changes to the movement aside, you still need more tuning and way more stringent QA for a movement to pass METAS. Even for the movements from the same batch, they may as well sell the best ones as METAS certified and those that failed the METAS test in other non-certified watches. In that sense, METAS is worth it. It's like buying an Intel K CPU. You can say it's pretty much the same thing with cheaper CPUs, but it passes more QA than cheaper counterparts.
Your rare woman here….. Love the video. Great information. So I will continue saving for my white speedy pro…. To scratch the itch I just buy the occasional strap. Just got back from the Toronto Timepiece Show and only bought a $35 digital watch. But got to try lots!! Almost bought a Laco for an excellent price but didn’t because the 39mm had an 18mm lug space. So put it down. If it’s not exactly what I want I don’t buy it and get another strap for the ones I have. Maybe a Stowa later. What do I think is over hyped! Cartier - scratch magnets with unimpressive, lazy dials, boring movements for a lot of money. The only one I like, the Roadmaster, they discontinued. Thanks for a great video again.
Thanks Mike! For me the IWC Flieger are clearly overrated. But even more so the Breitling Navitimer. Nobody uses its function. And just for the record: I love my tribute monoface cuz as a Reverso it's got to be super slim.
I do think the spring drive and the dials of GS are both amazing. But the watches in general, just something boring about the overall design. To me, if I want something restrained, I can get a cheap Seiko or CASIO. Actually, if anything they both excite me more than GS. If I'm going luxury, I want something exciting to me. GS needs to do something that isn't restrained.
Excellent take on these watches. I was always a big fan of JLC. I have a Reverso and a moon phase calendar but I find their price increases to be unrealistic.
Opera isn't inherently more cultured or refined than rap music? The only time I have "EVER" disagreed with Mike, save for the Squale purchase of course 😂
i audibly said BRUH... i get it, i get why he has to say something like that but that comment is pure nonsense - and i love both. in fact, i love rap *because* it's not refined.
The Speedmaster moon story doesn't resonate because it isn't actually a 'story.' All 'stories' require three things: a character who has a need/desire, but must overcome an obstacle to fulfill that need. There is no 'obstacle' that could only be overcome because of the Speedmaster in 'first watch on the moon.' Apollo 13 is a REAL story though where the Speedmaster was critical in overcoming the obstacle of surviving reentry into the atmosphere. The 14 second timed engine burn is compelling because it IS a story. Every element is there. Real characters with a very significant need/desire who need to overcome a compelling obstacle. Calling the first watch on the moon tagline a 'story' doesnt make it a story just like calling a Patek Philippe Calatrava 'a dive watch' doesn't make it one. Why Omega continues to conflate a tagline and ignore their most compelling story is frankly negligent on behalf of their marketing department.
I am happy that the PRX got more competition in this price segment, as it results in more choice. But double the price is (like the CW 12) is a different price region, and getting more for paying double is something I would expect.
There is still no competition for prx. The citizen is too cheap looking because the bracelet should be the main premium part and it cant compete with prx. the Venezianico Arsenale 40 will be the same pricepoint and looks more premium to me, but Tissot needs competition from the big players Seiko, Casio. Or even Rolex. If Rolex would sell an affordable OysterQuartz for 3-4k Tissot would be in the shadow, just because watch youtubers would hype it like they did with prx.
@@NCSheriff7 even with a Rolex for 3-4K, it would be no competition for Tissot PRX. The price difference is too big. But this is rather theoretical, because Rolex current strategy is not to become more affordable.
@@neodym5809The Powermatic 80 movement is crap and it's riddled with parts from China. That's right the lame Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years. Even Omega use some parts made in China unlike Rolex that's 100p Swiss and that's why Rolex is one of the best
On Omega vs Rolex....not only did the speedster go to the moon it was actually used to support Apollo missions. Neil Armstrong left his watch in the luna module to act as a backup to the faulty luna module clock, and Jack Swigert's Speedmaster was used to time the critical 14-second rocket motor burn that put the craft onto the correct trajectory to get home. While Rolex fibbed about Everest, lost out to Omega in the NASA trials and...AND...gets worn by Rolex owners. If watches were people, one of those brands would be a gentleman the other a braggart and a charlatan.
Stop it, if you'd put a Daytona there it would do the same job. Or a Zenith...or a Pagani with a $15 Seiko movement inside. Yes they timed it with a Speedmaster...because they had a Speedmaster. If they'd had a Hamilton Khaki Field they'd have used that!
Never forget the humble Seiko 6139 Pogue. Secretly brought on board because it was his and he trusted it, and used it to great effect during his space mission. The little brother, the 6139 "Bruce Lee" was also worn by, you guessed it. Bruce Lee.
Very good. From a pure design perspective, I think the seamaster 300 is overrated. I respect its engineering and value and origins and bond and blah, but the design is just so chaotic, disjointed and incongruent with itself. Scalloped bezel, intricate and finicky bracelet links but non-tapering, and then the quite brutal skeletal hands - It’s very contradictory and it has never worked for me. Which annoys me to no end because omega is a brand I align with (for whatever reason) and I want a diver that doesn’t have all the Rolex branding connotations or overt ‘popularity’. Sadly, as much as I don’t want to, I just prefer and covet the submariner and there is nothing else that competes visually for me. It’s a dilemma.
I agree about several negative opinions on the 300M (skel hands). Have you looked at the Planet Ocean models? I feel they ‘fixed’ all the negatives of the 300M, though I do wish a wavy dial version were available.
In terms of Zaratsu…some would notice and conclude it’s too polished. Maybe for aesthetic reasons, but my main issue is that it looks like crap almost immediately.
Key differences: * Vocal style: Opera emphasizes trained singing, while rap focuses on rhythmic speech. * Lyrics: Opera often involves dramatic narratives, while rap can cover a wide range of topics. * Instrumentation: Opera relies on a large orchestra, while rap often uses electronic and sampled sounds. * Performance: Opera is typically staged in a theater, while rap can be performed in various settings.
Citizen over tissot that is my personal valid statement. I rather buy a tsuyosa small seconds or the series 8 citizen with the new myiota 9 movements inside instead of a PRX
The series 8 line is incredible imo especially with their new movements.... which are really an interesting blend of expression between la joux perret and miyota
@@RadixRill exactly! I have a sentimental value for this brand because I started collecting watches with citizen and the myiota series 9 also has a strong anti magnetic movement
I just bought my 4th diver and 2nd GO watch, the SeaQ 39.5 with the non applied indices. It goes with my 14060M, SD4K and BP FF. It just has so much charm and character and not too pricey. Can’t wait to take it to Hawaii soon.
I was always in an alternative camp. I consider watches like Tudor, Longines and Rolex utterly boring that’s why instead of those I recently purchased a watch that I have seen an out a year ego in a watch finder video: Ikepod Megapod. It looks so epically unique compared to a dime a dozen above brands.
I agree, the moon story with the Speedmaster is not something most people care about. Truth be told, the Navitimer was the first watch in space in 1962, which is no big deal either. The Speedmaster is a great watch in its own right, with or without the moon story. Same with the Explorer, I just look at the watch itself as being a great watch.
The Navitimer I’m referencing was worn by Scott Carpenter on May 24,1962. Maybe someone else will some up with another first time watch in space besides the two we mentioned.🙂
My personal opinion is that I think most watches are over rated. I love the content of the channel. I enjoy the quality and analysis. I follow many channels about specific interest that u personally have no interest in. I guess it’s the generalist in me that wants to know more. And what is a better way to learn than from those who are very deep into a specific subject. I can see the craftsmanship and appreciate the beauty. But cannot justify buying a watch. I have my phone. Before that I had a casio in the 90s. But I must say, if all the watches I’ve seen over many videos I still think there’s something special about Patek. I can really see why some are very in love with that brand. Cannot put my finger on exactly what, but even for a person like me that isn’t into watches there’s something about their stuff that speaks to me.
I absolutely love Glashutte Original. The SeaQ Panorama Date is my dream watch. Stunning quality and finishing. I had the opportunity to take a look at one in a Vienna Glashutte shop. Big big love.
I wanted a Rolex sub since getting into luxury watches 10 years ago. Searched and searched and searched. Visited most AD's in my area (NYC) to no avail. Finally got the call 2 years ago and jumped on it. Now that I own one, I appreciate the quality but the reality is it is a boring watch and does not get much wrist time. It's not as boring as an Explorer, which I also own, but just sits in the safe deposit box unworn. For me, the Omega 300M , which was my first luxury watch, is a much more interesting piece.
This chap really is on point. He is incisive, informed, intelligent and articulate. Why isn't he mainstream? The chair is a bit Bond villianesque though.
For what it’s worth my grandfather actually was an Apollo project NASA engineer, and he has mentioned the Omega Speedmaster to me identically zero times. He has probably informed me of the time keeping prowess of his solar atomic G-SHOCK a hundred times. As for pilot watches, Sinn is about the only brand checking all the main boxes my pilot and engineer. Then on Grand Seiko, my engineer heart very much longs for a Spring Drive. Their restrained aesthetic just pleases me that much more.
The Reverso is one of those watches everyone raves about and nobody owns. I've gone to countless watch meets and get-togethers and still have never seen a Reverso in the wild.
I like that Grand Seiko is not trying to compete with the Swiss watch makers. It's like having different flavors of ice cream. If I want something simple yet elegant, I know I can't go wrong with Grand Seiko. If I want sporty and tool like I got Tudor, or Omega. I hope Seiko never loses their Japanese identity just to try to fit in to the masses.
Great insights, as always, thanks for the video. For me, the Casio FW91 fits right into this category. Giving in nostalgia over a disposable plastic watch just because it’s under 20€ is the exact opposite of what watch collecting represents to me. No TH-camr is going to change my mind on that
Dear Mark Talking about Prx and integrated bracelet, pls see the Arsenale of Venezianico . Somehow, i believe it worths your attention . So unique and slim although with Miyota thin movement. Many thanks Nizar
I own two Venezianico's and I like them very much as a "popcorn" watch. Something light and frivolous that's fun to wear in the summer. Definitely recommended as a young, bright brand with an Italian flair
I think it's worth mentioning the horological innovation in Grand Seiko too. I kind of agree with you that zaratzu polishing is overrated, but no-one talks about the dual impulse escapement in the 9SA5. Like Omega's coaxial, a totally different (and probably superior) take on the fundamental design of a mechanical movement. There's the Spring Drive too of course (although personally as a mechanical purist I'm not a fan, but that's just me).
I thought of the Seiko SKX when I saw the title. Has there been a cheaper, more specified (for the time) and more loved watch that you can think of? If it we're bought back with the ISO rating intact and sapphire for a similar price would it sell by the bucket load?
Watch history is overrated, especially the Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch. Tell me (this is actually rhetorical), what does it mean to collect a modern-built wristwatch that has never been to space let alone the moon? It has no actual cachet, just an imaginary story, an homage to something else. In programming we’d call this a symbolic pointer, and you can have a million of them pointing to the same thing. And yet would you not be the first person (again this is rhetorical, I’m not addressing you-you) to point out what a stupid choice it is to get a Chinese knock-off? Yeah you can deceive yourself into believing anything, and you can game the luxury watch market by buying nothing and calling it something, but don’t you get that nagging feeling that you’ve also been fooled?
I’d say that ultimately, branding in general are just stories we tell that convince some of us that product x is absolutely worth amount y. In the fairly rarefied air of luxury watches, we can surmise that they are all decent products, so then it comes down to the story, so yeah, Omega’s going to the Moon or being worn by Bond, Rolex and their ambassadors etc etc. that stuff is either going to work on you, or it won’t. The vast majority of Speedmasters aren’t leaving the atmosphere any more than the vast majority of Submariners aren’t getting any damper than a quick shower…
This is exactly why I mentioned the Omega Speedmaster Racing. I can get in my car and drive like a maniac. I will never be floating around in space. The Racing connects with me.
This may be shocking considering I thought you were an opera fan, but I agree with all you said. When I wanted my first luxury watch went the usual route, but my wife recommend Longines, and after seeing the Explorer 2 in person got the Spirit Zulu with blue dial. Also at windup in San Fran the snobs loved my "Stowa Flieger", but was an Islander ISL223 with nice blue strap and only wore it to get the 50$ credit towards ISL198!
Back in the early 2000’s I knew nothing about watches. I had just started a new business after being in academia for 15 years. It was becoming apparent that the business would be very successful and I wanted a little bling to celebrate and to flex a little to my stuffy academic friends. Rolex was immediately disqualified because I saw it as the common flex. I chose a Tag Heuer (don’t laugh) because in that time period Tag was seen as a semi flex but for the younger less bankerly crowd. I think currently the Nautilus is in the same category functionally as a Daytona. It’s no longer novel and it’s just an extra expensive common flex. If I were going Patek I’d be drawn to something like the 5172G chronograph over a Nautilus.
That *ecact* Sinn 556 RS is in my collection now. I swear if the bracelet was more comfortable it would be my most worn watch. Ironically, the Hamilton didn't come on a bracelet, so I don't judge it thusly. But the Sinn cost more, so I do.
5:48 I do agree with your opinion although the watches mentioned are substantially more expensive in my opinion, going from 700 to roughly 1000 is an extra Seiko 5 sports
The Icons are those that are still wanted, even if the model's design is decades old (like the Omega Speedmaster) or even over a century old (like the Cartier Santos or the Tank.)
You can wear a moon watch and fly completly under the radar. Its comfortable on the new bracelet, and looks smart with a shirt. This is my watch to wear when in head office. My daily beater is a Rolex sub, again it flys under the radar by and large, but has a robustness about it. Great with jeans and a Tshirt. I like simple legible dials.
I find Nico entertaining, but his dislike of Grand Seiko has always been baffling to me. I'm a newer enthusiast compared to many, but the Spring Drive appears to me to be the most significant innovation in the industry in recent history (at least on the movement side) and that alone earns Grand Seiko its hype. I completely appreciate your assessment of the limited appeal of the company's restrained, utilitarian aesthetic, however. It does help explain the disconnect for many people. Fantastic video as always!
It must be noted that the original Omega Speedmaster watches were favoured by the astronauts because with a long enough strap they could wear them on the outside of the space suit sleeves , they would keep running in the vacuum of space but most importantly the chunky bezel could be rotated with their unfeeling space suit fingers. Note this was all before the co-axial escapement was adopted
Interesting., and refreshing. I actually tried to see one of the featured Tudors last week, being embarrassingly unaware of the hype around it. The sales guy literally had dragged me into the shop. When I showed him a screenshot of the watch i was interested in he turned all Rolex salesperson on me. Need my details, purchase history blah blah. Not interested in playing those games at all. Well Sir it's a luxury watch. Like this oneI replied, sowing him my Omega SMP. Thought I'd have some fun as I'd spotted the blue chrono, " how about that one?" I thought he was going to throw a fit. I walked out and went and bought a Seiko Turtle, I'm quite enjoying it.
GS watches are hit and miss, but when they get it right, they hit the ball right out the park. However, aside from branding and bracelets, I believe the main issues are as follows: 1)The watches look similar. Most of them have a clean 'business' type look with similar case sizes/styles, so you really have to get up close to notice a difference. There are no perpetual calendars or moonphases, and the few chronos they make have serious design problems and don't look nearly as attractive as other brands that specialise in them in that price range. e.g. Omega, Zenith etc. 2)No definitive models/designs. Connected to point 1. Yes the flake dials are nice and so is the Shunbun, but they don't have genuine flagship models that are strong enough in terms of design to entice people to the brand. This is the reason that GS and their fans focus on the technical merits of the watch (e.g. Spring Drive, Zaratsu, etc). It's because there is no 'gestalt' (mentioned above) to their design language, which means their watches are easier to appreciate under magnification than at the usual distance they tend to be viewed. 3)Pricing. GS are moving upmarket quickly, but the value proposition after 7 or 7.5k is unclear. Up until this price point, and especially below, you are getting a lot of watch for your money. After that, the watches have practically identical looking hands, indices, case finishing etc, so what exactly are you paying for? All 3 points are related in whole or part to the product differentiation problem that currently plagues them.
Yet another very interesting and useful video😀. On the point of Metas though, if you are totally OCD about the EXACT time then IMHO it helps. I have a couple of quartz watches ( a Casio and a Citizen) and love their accuracy! I also have 2 Omega Metas watches (Aqua Terra and 3861 Speed master "moon watch". The Speedmaster in particular only gains about 1s per day. I have a COSC Christopher Ward which is good to +3s per day so I am a happy camper. I know not everyone is as OCD as me but hey ho! Gonna cost me a mint in servicing in the future!!
“Opera is not inherently more refined than rap music. It’s just different.” You obviously don’t know the definition of “refined”, son. You’re a clown.
Perhaps I am a clown.
I, however, choose not to stoop to calling other people names simply because they have a difference in opinions to my own.
I ask you kindly to do better 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchthe most European response ever
"I'll come scoop you in that coupe" 🤣
No need to be rude though.
Wow...Philip must be american who studied his manners at Trump University. 😅
Being rude doesn't add weight to your opinion. If anything, it undermines any valid point you may have wished to make, or opinion you wished to express. I would argue that Opera takes years of training and discipline, combined with talent. This is not the case for rap music. ( just talent for rap)
With all the watch channels out there pretending to give honest and unbiased reviews, this chanel continues to be the perfect antidote. Thank you.
This is the only watch channel I find myself always responding to video comments with "agreed!" 😉
This is the only watch channel I find myself always responding to video comments with "agreed!" 😉
Agree.This Channel feels very original for me. Not trying to sell watch. But just given a point of view from a watch experts.
@@ChrisJones-hs6nj he retired chiss ward. He jumped on that band wagon
Don't forget McMahon, his psychology to watches is well needed in the community.
Puting JLC in the video to show your Reverso was a nice move. Didn't see that coming.
Vladimir
SMOOOOOVE!
@@Javic167 JLC and Omega make some of the coolest old gold dress watches I've ever seen.... the kind that look like a gold bracelet with a watch built in.... theres several on ebay and chrono 24... usually around $4-8k
Who gives a damn about Nico's opinion???
Personally I can't stand him.
I can't stand him either
Yeah, i don't get why is he repeatedly referenced in this channel. He's loud and impulsive, just the opposite of this channel. Maybe that's exactly why.
Hahahaha
Quite. He has always struck me as a brash, vulgar, ill-informed, clog-wearer.
Great. Now I have to rewrite my ENTIRE letter to Santa. ALL OF IT.
LOL. Me too.
20:47 The "days since last purchase" counter hahah
My wife uses reverse mono back kind of like a mirror to put lipstick on lol. It has its use!
She's pretty cool.
JLC are pretty dumb not to market that.
Thats cool!!
@@barryliu1890 that's kinda sexy, ngl
@@shuycgcan fight cartier for the most poupular ladies watch
Butterfly poop! That has to be the greatest explanation I have ever heard.
Just my personal opinion, but I think the Speedmaster's history with space exploration and NASA is richer than the history of diving, racing, and (debatable) Mt. Everest climbing history of Rolex.
Is there any debating the Everest story? I thought it was thoroughly disproven. I love the Explorer, but marketing gonna market.
There is No climbing history with Rolex, the watches both climbers were wearing were Smiths, a Rolex may have been taken by some of the team, but it was never an official thing
Rolex even admitted lying about it and apologised at the time, Rolex have tried to attach themselves to any significant event, as they are a marketing company who make watches not the other way around
Moon landing was fake
its funny cuz edmond hillary wore a smiths watch to the top of mount everest not the rolex
Astronauts…to the moon Nya Nya Nya 🤣
Concur with all, yet I think you were a smidge too tough on Grand Seiko. On styling, bracelets, etc., I agree, but on value for money I think they excel. If you like the styling, I just don’t see anything Swiss that comes close for the price. Just my $.02. Nice video on a useful question.
Yes I agree. The analogy about Grand Seiko being similar to classical music or opera is off as well. Those would be Patek or Vacheron Constantin. Grand Seiko is more like aficionados of Prog.
@@Chiller11 No way. Patek or VC would be rap music. A flashy fad that came from nowhere and will go nowhere
I find this channel of utmost importance for five reasons :
- First, it is completely independent and unbiased.
- It reviews particular watches and general particularities of the watches and the brands that many of us don't know of.
- It provides useful technicalities to amateur enthusiasts like me without presumptuous views, which is appropriate to most of the viewers which aren't watchmakers.
- It gives very realistic views of the Market and its evolution with very frequent upgrades.
- Last but not least all of this info is wrapped with excellent sense of humor, rationality and leaving space for the watchers to jump into their own conclusions.
Congratulations Mike for this breath of fresh air you give us in a hobby full of certainties in which regards to the claims of many of your counterparts.
Cheers
5:22 _"MoonSwatch"_ lol.
Swatch Group: all according to plan...
I have a Rolex submariner (no date) and I just can’t stop staring at the dial. The simplicity mesmerizes me. I don’t care what anyone thinks about it, I just absolutely love having it on my wrist, even at home alone.
I am a dial lover, and to me the dial is what draws you into the watch like an attractive woman across the room. From this perspective I absolutely love my Grand Seiko Shunbun/Spring Equinox model with its cherry blossom dial. On the surface, if you have not seen the handiwork that goes into each Grand Seiko watch and its dials, then you cannot begin to appreciate the artisanship that goes into each Grand Seiko. The good news is that Hodinkee recently toured the Grand Seiko factory and wrote an in-depth article with many pictures that will amaze you. You may then ask yourself how does GS put this much handiwork into each model and not charge Patek Philippe prices? Each brand makes about 50-60,000 watches per year.
I sold my Submariner and got a SeaQ and an Omega Seamaster 300 Trilogy 60th anniversary for the money and the two bring me way more joy. Good vid, Mike.
To me the only watches you talked about that are overrated are the Nautilus (boring and insanely expensive with no justification), the Tudor Black Bay 41 (as boring as a third coat of paint and massively unsubtle) and the IWC Pilot (far too expensive for its simplistic design). I do marginally prefer the Aquanaut to the Nautilus, but still ... meh. TOO MUCH MONEY.
Personally I always thought the Submariner was kinda blah until I tried one on. Now I own one. The Sub has to be the most perfect watch in terms of design, subtlety and dimensions (not to mention the astounding Rolex oyster bracelet). I put it on and it feels like it melts into my wrist. Plus it absolutely shimmers in the light, and mine is a 1996 model. I think if anything it is an underrated masterpiece.
The classic 42mm Speedmaster is beautiful to me, except when I put it on my wrist. Then it looks and feels "wrong". I can't explain why I have this reaction to it, but I have yet to find a 42mm Speedy model that feels right on me.
Tag Heuer watches are a little too expensive, though somewhat underrated in general. For me the real problem with Tag is finding a model that meets all my requirements among the BILLIONS of different styles and models they carry. But if you're persistent you will find one eventually. And it will make you happy.
Except for the inexplicably terrible bracelets, Grand Seikos are astounding watches. I've got my three GS watches on leather straps, and they all look stunning. LOVE Grand Seiko ... especially the Spring Drive models with the power reserve on the dial. I don't know why, but that looks magical to me.
The PRX is awesome for the price. It's hard to find anything comparable and with Tissot's history at a similar price level. Likewise, the Khaki Field Mechanical is a beautiful, astounding watch for the price. Just like the Tissot, you'll be hard pressed to find a similar field watch at the price with Hamilton's history and reputation.
Anything made by JLC is, to me, faultless. The Reverso, the Master Control, the Polaris and the Ultra-thin models are almost too perfect for words. Don't get me wrong, they are expensive, but what you get is the horological equivalent of a perfect 5-course Italian meal or a German automobile. Workmanship, design, style and refinement. Amazing!
I can explain by Grand Seiko has those bad bracelets. I guess that contrary to ALL of the Swiss, they refuse to buy them in China, who are the real silent masters of that.
Having lived in Japan, I understand how significant Grand Seiko is. It is a true reflection of Japanese culture and understated elegamce. I adore their watches.
Could not agree more with your first point. I once bought an Explorer because I really like the dial and in spite of the fact that it was a Rolex!
I really like where Tag Heuer is going with their new watches. More COSC certified or in-house movements, higher finishing. They know what direction they have to take.
Even their entry level Carrera's are very well finished. I have a Date 36mm, and I've received more compliments on it than any of my more expensive watches.
I cannot afford the VAST majority of the watches that you speak about, but somehow, you have still garnered an out-sized impact on my opinions on watches.
The whole industry is based on 80-100Y old artifacts - spitfire theme, divers = 98% of people don't know anything about it and don't practice it, flight to the moon or 007, Genta with a integrated bracelet, military field etc. Intended to go for a speedmaster than discovered its not atomatic one, rather 100Y technology?! Are there really no designers these days who can offer a new perspective? Waiting for a really new flash 🙏
Johnathan Ive has done something.
Because decades ago we used to dare, all we do from a fresh perspective is seating in front of the desk.... :/
That's why we dream of those adventures.
For me, the Submariner is a big yawn. Also, I doubt that I will ever choose to own any Rolex. It is the aspirational brand of the big-hat-no-cattle crowd, which is why so many are counterfeit, like their owners. For all the supposed excellence in execution by GS, my Snowflake required a repair early in its life.
any mech watch is big-hat-no-cattle crowd,, 5 bucks in a dig WATCH KILLS THEM ALL
The vintage oyster models from the 60s are very nice. Other than that I agree.
The brand name and history have some amount of value, but it has to say something how easily it can be counterfeit lol
@@speedracer2please now it takes several guys with broken cuban english to stare at it rub it with thumb and then open the back.
tell me when you see a luxery watch in the wild your dont auto think its a fake? always a Dbag in an undersized tshirt and a chain on his neck
@@speedracer2please th-cam.com/users/shorts0TBFWZniPX0?si=fratZSIQICqmiBy-
(3:51) That Moon watch Grandpa story made me laugh. I salute you Sir. Imagine every Speedy owner hearing that. OH I'd get a kick out the reaction. Especially the young kids who's only knowledge is probably Googling and Tom Hank's Apollo 13 . ( More than likely..)
Or it could be a Gen X'er like me who was unimpressed by anything NASA because I saw the original Star Wars on release date and found real space exploration boring in comparison to the film.
I'm a NASA brat and Apollo 15 was the first launch I saw, the Bulova means more to me than a Speedy.
Submariner definitely, everyone has one, but no one can get one. Very odd.
Yeah maybe in Beverly Hills everyone does not own a Rolex Submariner. Not everyone is walking around with a watch that cost 10k this comment is so inaccurate its not even funny
Black Submariners specifically. I saw dozens of them when I worked in the finance industry for a few years. I stopped paying attention after a while and would remember less common watches instead, like Tag Heuer Aquaracer.
@@lonewolfemcquade8133He's not wrong though - Rolex Submariner is the most faked watch in the world. By that token a lot of people have got one. On the flip side most of the genuine watch enthusiasts who would like to get the Submariner at the retail price can't seem to get one.
I bought and wear a sub because I think it’s basically a perfect sports watch. It’s not the most interesting watch I’ve ever had, but it is one I find myself wearing the most. I’ve also never fell in love with the reverso, especially as a monoface, but I really like the master ultra thin moonphase.
At last, a respected voice making the point that "balancing a watch face onto a surface which is inherently round is hard". Maybe it's my newness to watches that means I've not heard others say this before. But this is exactly why I have always personally felt that most Cartiers are extremely poorly designed. Roman numerals are far too "blocky", but also due to their differing lengths they leave some parts of the dial overly busy, whilst leaving others full of gaps, in an unsymmetrical way. Cram all of that into a rectangular shape and it's just a total mess. Each to their own, but I've never understood how people can think the Tank or the Santos etc elegant or well designed. Funnily enough, the one Cartier reference on which I think the roman numerals work as a spectacular piece of design is the Crash - precisely because the imbalance is the whole point of that design.
I didn't know their original movements were as good as Metas-certified ones and genuinely thought they invested in their movements and released it through Metas-approved ones.
The MT5602-U in the new black bay is the exact same as the one in the previous black bays. The way you tell the difference is only in the naming convention. The old ones are called MT5602 (No "U". Which refers to the magnetism piece).
Nothing is changed in the movement.
That means
- Same architecture.
- Same materials.
- Same specs.
- Same shock absorption
- Same antimagnetism
- Same power reserve
The key difference for METAS is fundamentally two things.
1. The movement is tested in the case vs as the movement in isolation (It might be tested more than once - can't be bothered to double check)
2. The accuracy tolerances are more strict.
Basically as Tudor get better at mass producing their movements, they'll have increasing confidence that their movements will pass the METAS tests and as they do they'll roll out metas to more and more models. Basically it's a function of "practice makes perfect".
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch A great explanation, really helpful. Myth busting movement marketing might be a good title for a video... not sure what the content would be though. I find it all a bit daunting... I just decide if I like the watch or not... that seems to be the core of your advice and I agree with it... it's a good philosophy.
I honestly can't wrap my head around why are royal oak and nautilus (or generally most of GG designs) so popular.
Me either. Maybe because those watches are expensive - a sort of an unobtanium so to speak.
Because there are a TON of people with more money than taste and style. Money can't buy either. But they can buy ROs and Nautili.
and I though it was just me.
A fad
Love your videos Mike. I think the Grand Seiko Spring Drive is amazing technology and that to me makes it very desirable. I'm to the point in my watch collecting that I'm looking for something different. That's also why I like the Rado ceramic. It's different. Just my humble opinion.
@@TheLute70 GS spring drive and Rado ceramic are two of my life goals, I wonder why I don't hear more about Rado. They're probably the two biggest advancements in watches right now
@@speedracer2please Rado are big in Asia and the Middle East. They have a unique design language, but the movements are off the shelf, which doesn't appeal to watch nerds.
I bought a Speedmaster for its iconic history. I never fell in love with it. I sold it and bought an Explorer II Polar. No regrets so far. 🤷♂️
The Cartier hot take is simple: Santos is superior to Tank.
The Santos isnt perfect (that scratch magnet bezel) but it looks gorgeous, flowing lines, works in several sizes and takes precious metal options easily. Meanwhile all the "Design Icon" epithets will never cover the fact that the Tank is a rather plain rectangle that cannot take a bracelet to save its life.
Agree. The Santos is far superior in all forms. I prefer the Dumont personally, and not just because it's closer to the original watch.
So true.
Tosh 😂
Tank is THE Cartier watch, but no one has the balls to wear a “ girly “ sized watch….so they buy the Santos…but buy the biggest size they can when the proper size is the medium
Over 12 minutes until you mention CW….you’re slipping…..😜
I saw the first ten seconds: felt the fire and got myself popcorn to enjoy this. Banger choice of topic and video Mike. Loved the audacity and the respectful restraint. Need a part two 💯🥳
Very interesting video. I recently bought a Seiko presage GMT used for 1/2 retail price. Comparing it other watches around the £5-600. You can see a difference in quality of finishing. What it has made me realise is my taste in watches has changed. About half of my collection I'm happy to sell. The PRX isn't one of them.
I think it's well finished wears really well due to a thin case and the automatic movement keeps very good time. There aren't many watches in my collection that can easily be dressed up with a suit or down to smart casual wear. I don't think it's over-rated, just over-exposed.
My friend bought a Rolex and regretting it, no one commenting on him owning it and he has since 3 other watches he likes and could have bought for what he paid for it.
The thing about Rolex is watch geeks are like, well, yes, it's certainly reliable and iconic, and if that's what you love, go for it, but for the money... and normies are like, Huh, you put 5 figures on your wrist. That's nice, i suppose. I mean, it's expensive, but it's not like you have to be a Getty to own one. Good news for him is he can get most of his money back, they have great resale value.
Seems like he bought the watch for the image he thought the watch would give him.
If you have to buy a watch for others to commenting on, you lost the game already. You buy a watch for you only.
@@TheTejanoJose majority of Rolex owners buy them for the attention and recognition, if people were buying for accuracy and quality Rolex wouldn’t be the company that they are. There are countless very well built accurate watches for significantly less money.
A rich man’s Tudor !
Great video as always Mike - excellent comment re £4,000 and diminishing returns - I know all about personal wealth but I think an interesting and wide collection is between £500 - £7,000 for most bang for your buck and choice. I do include the secondhand market in this to get hands on Glashutte etc
Accidentally a nice overview of iconic watches. I was working on a poster for Speedmaster and might do one for IWC Schaffhausen.
I'm told that the Aquanaut used to be an entry-level cheaper Patek that was hard to sell. The case construction is much simpler than the Nautilus, and until recently the Aquanaut has been an undesirable model
Also, when I see the Aquanaut, I instantly think of auto rubber tire 🛞. Am I the only one that has this association?
@@JSarmat86 Definitely not the only one. It's an ugly watch
Watches are just like food, GS is like high end Japanese food, simple yet refined, while Rolex is like French cuisine, luxury and famous. There’s better or worse, just choose what you like
I wish citizen had better marketing, I like their titanium diver
Me too. Although I think that citizen plays in a lower end market. Dominant for sure, but not as price-worthy. Just my opinion...
@@silkytp789citizen understands what they are you want crazy pretty watch Camponela. You want “The Best” citizen then get “The Citizen” a perpetual calendar until 2100 for 2k titanium solar powered 100m water resistant
It's all in the name. The Citizen brand screams cheap mall watch no matter what they do. Even their higher end designs are let down the second their name is spotted on the dial. I have the same issue with my Casio Oceanus S100. It's a thin light-weight titanium-cased solar-powered atomic clock world timer perpetual calendar. A huge amount of technology under the hood, and an understated elegant design. If the dial simply said Oceanus, it would be amazing. But the dial says Casio Oceanus, and that one word Casio is a real detriment in my mind and the minds of others, because it conjures images of Walmart and ugly plastic watches. It's all down to psychology of a brand and our monkey brains.
@_____nope_____ Yes, but I enjoy how the indices flash in the light...and try to convince myself others are sharing the beautiful moment ( oh, dear - sounding like a hippy.!..).
@@jaysterling26 hahaha
Great video as always. Glad to see the Tag Heuer get some love. I feel like they’re back on the right path.
I love grand seiko
Seiko your japanese neighbor boy?
The great Japanese asian brand using european gothic font in its logo...
Me too.
@@stevens1041 one problem with the spring drive. If you're gonna have quartz at all. Just get a solar casio and enjoy 30 years of not having to adjust your time..
I have a Casio ten years.. haven't adjusted the time in ten years . Still perfect... It's a solar gps that sets it's own time and since it's a gshock it's rated level 3 armor.. stops small to midsized hand gun rounds
@@theyhateme8763 Casio is a great brand, simply because they have their own identity and don't attempt to be anything else. For me, I'm all about the g-shock squares.
I would buy the Tag. I love the dial, color options, the octagon, the price. But I can't get over the cyclops date. Never on my many scuba dives have I wondered what date it was
I still love Seiko. I do not care if people think I am crazy paying $3,000 on multiple models. I do love Glaschutte Original too.
With Omega, I love so many models, and I have owned so many, but their prices are getting kind of silly. I would totally buy a reasonably priced sedan gold Aqua Terra, if I can find one.
3:22 "The Rolex Explorer 2 has personality simply because it's the less picked choice" - for better or worse, this reasoning governs not only watches but a vast majority of consumer goods in general. Something reaching a certain level of popularity in the mainstream means other options appear more interesting simply due to being comparatively niche. On topic, I think this maybe relates a bit to the PRX discussed later. I've found while watch spotting outside, it's so common as to have become a bit bland.
Design changes to the movement aside, you still need more tuning and way more stringent QA for a movement to pass METAS. Even for the movements from the same batch, they may as well sell the best ones as METAS certified and those that failed the METAS test in other non-certified watches. In that sense, METAS is worth it. It's like buying an Intel K CPU. You can say it's pretty much the same thing with cheaper CPUs, but it passes more QA than cheaper counterparts.
Your rare woman here….. Love the video. Great information. So I will continue saving for my white speedy pro…. To scratch the itch I just buy the occasional strap. Just got back from the Toronto Timepiece Show and only bought a $35 digital watch. But got to try lots!! Almost bought a Laco for an excellent price but didn’t because the 39mm had an 18mm lug space. So put it down. If it’s not exactly what I want I don’t buy it and get another strap for the ones I have. Maybe a Stowa later. What do I think is over hyped! Cartier - scratch magnets with unimpressive, lazy dials, boring movements for a lot of money. The only one I like, the Roadmaster, they discontinued.
Thanks for a great video again.
I second the Aquanaut! Better balanced watch design and more versatile - as though I could get or afford one😅
Thanks Mike! For me the IWC Flieger are clearly overrated. But even more so the Breitling Navitimer. Nobody uses its function. And just for the record: I love my tribute monoface cuz as a Reverso it's got to be super slim.
I do think the spring drive and the dials of GS are both amazing. But the watches in general, just something boring about the overall design.
To me, if I want something restrained, I can get a cheap Seiko or CASIO. Actually, if anything they both excite me more than GS.
If I'm going luxury, I want something exciting to me. GS needs to do something that isn't restrained.
Excellent take on these watches. I was always a big fan of JLC. I have a Reverso and a moon phase calendar but I find their price increases to be unrealistic.
Opera isn't inherently more cultured or refined than rap music? The only time I have "EVER" disagreed with Mike, save for the Squale purchase of course 😂
Yeah, I was doing really well until opera vs rap.
i audibly said BRUH... i get it, i get why he has to say something like that but that comment is pure nonsense - and i love both. in fact, i love rap *because* it's not refined.
JLC navy seals diver limited edition from 2013 in 42 mm swamps any sub, just a shame they don’t make them anymore😮
Great video. Bad example comparing opera to rap. But lots of other good points nonetheless.
The Speedmaster moon story doesn't resonate because it isn't actually a 'story.' All 'stories' require three things: a character who has a need/desire, but must overcome an obstacle to fulfill that need. There is no 'obstacle' that could only be overcome because of the Speedmaster in 'first watch on the moon.'
Apollo 13 is a REAL story though where the Speedmaster was critical in overcoming the obstacle of surviving reentry into the atmosphere.
The 14 second timed engine burn is compelling because it IS a story. Every element is there. Real characters with a very significant need/desire who need to overcome a compelling obstacle.
Calling the first watch on the moon tagline a 'story' doesnt make it a story just like calling a Patek Philippe Calatrava 'a dive watch' doesn't make it one.
Why Omega continues to conflate a tagline and ignore their most compelling story is frankly negligent on behalf of their marketing department.
I am happy that the PRX got more competition in this price segment, as it results in more choice. But double the price is (like the CW 12) is a different price region, and getting more for paying double is something I would expect.
There is still no competition for prx. The citizen is too cheap looking because the bracelet should be the main premium part and it cant compete with prx. the Venezianico Arsenale 40 will be the same pricepoint and looks more premium to me, but Tissot needs competition from the big players Seiko, Casio. Or even Rolex. If Rolex would sell an affordable OysterQuartz for 3-4k Tissot would be in the shadow, just because watch youtubers would hype it like they did with prx.
@@NCSheriff7 even with a Rolex for 3-4K, it would be no competition for Tissot PRX. The price difference is too big. But this is rather theoretical, because Rolex current strategy is not to become more affordable.
@@neodym5809The Powermatic 80 movement is crap and it's riddled with parts from China. That's right the lame Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years. Even Omega use some parts made in China unlike Rolex that's 100p Swiss and that's why Rolex is one of the best
The Powermatic 80 movement is crap and it's riddled with parts from China. The Swatch group has been outsourcing from China for years
On Omega vs Rolex....not only did the speedster go to the moon it was actually used to support Apollo missions. Neil Armstrong left his watch in the luna module to act as a backup to the faulty luna module clock, and Jack Swigert's Speedmaster was used to time the critical 14-second rocket motor burn that put the craft onto the correct trajectory to get home. While Rolex fibbed about Everest, lost out to Omega in the NASA trials and...AND...gets worn by Rolex owners. If watches were people, one of those brands would be a gentleman the other a braggart and a charlatan.
I don’t want to burst your bubble but Stanley Kubrick engineered the lunar landing. I also hear 🦄 are real. Who’s fibbing then?
Stop it, if you'd put a Daytona there it would do the same job. Or a Zenith...or a Pagani with a $15 Seiko movement inside.
Yes they timed it with a Speedmaster...because they had a Speedmaster. If they'd had a Hamilton Khaki Field they'd have used that!
The “settled for an Omega” crew are absolutely obsessed with Rolex 😂
Never forget the humble Seiko 6139 Pogue. Secretly brought on board because it was his and he trusted it, and used it to great effect during his space mission. The little brother, the 6139 "Bruce Lee" was also worn by, you guessed it. Bruce Lee.
You were rejected by your Rolex AD weren’t you? 😂
Very good. From a pure design perspective, I think the seamaster 300 is overrated. I respect its engineering and value and origins and bond and blah, but the design is just so chaotic, disjointed and incongruent with itself. Scalloped bezel, intricate and finicky bracelet links but non-tapering, and then the quite brutal skeletal hands - It’s very contradictory and it has never worked for me. Which annoys me to no end because omega is a brand I align with (for whatever reason) and I want a diver that doesn’t have all the Rolex branding connotations or overt ‘popularity’. Sadly, as much as I don’t want to, I just prefer and covet the submariner and there is nothing else that competes visually for me. It’s a dilemma.
I agree about several negative opinions on the 300M (skel hands). Have you looked at the Planet Ocean models? I feel they ‘fixed’ all the negatives of the 300M, though I do wish a wavy dial version were available.
In terms of Zaratsu…some would notice and conclude it’s too polished. Maybe for aesthetic reasons, but my main issue is that it looks like crap almost immediately.
Cracking video. Most iconic watch for me is the speedmaster. Such a sexy case and great history. Think they nailed it with the new FOIS
Key differences:
* Vocal style: Opera emphasizes trained singing, while rap focuses on rhythmic speech.
* Lyrics: Opera often involves dramatic narratives, while rap can cover a wide range of topics.
* Instrumentation: Opera relies on a large orchestra, while rap often uses electronic and sampled sounds.
* Performance: Opera is typically staged in a theater, while rap can be performed in various settings.
Citizen over tissot that is my personal valid statement. I rather buy a tsuyosa small seconds or the series 8 citizen with the new myiota 9 movements inside instead of a PRX
The series 8 line is incredible imo especially with their new movements.... which are really an interesting blend of expression between la joux perret and miyota
@@RadixRill exactly! I have a sentimental value for this brand because I started collecting watches with citizen and the myiota series 9 also has a strong anti magnetic movement
Me too. I'll go for Miyota over powermatic plastic garbage any time.
Spot on regarding the Reverso. I bought the small seconds monoface on the secondary and saved a bunch, which made the purchase more palatable.
I just bought my 4th diver and 2nd GO watch, the SeaQ 39.5 with the non applied indices. It goes with my 14060M, SD4K and BP FF. It just has so much charm and character and not too pricey. Can’t wait to take it to Hawaii soon.
Constellation is another Genta if i remember correctly.
I was always in an alternative camp. I consider watches like Tudor, Longines and Rolex utterly boring that’s why instead of those I recently purchased a watch that I have seen an out a year ego in a watch finder video: Ikepod Megapod. It looks so epically unique compared to a dime a dozen above brands.
The power of an articulate argument: I never thought I would consider IWC and Formex as an option prior to this channel.
Every rose has its thorns, but you nicely articulate what makes pretentious GS fanboys so insufferable.
I agree, the moon story with the Speedmaster is not something most people care about. Truth be told, the Navitimer was the first watch in space in 1962, which is no big deal either. The Speedmaster is a great watch in its own right, with or without the moon story. Same with the Explorer, I just look at the watch itself as being a great watch.
Juri Gagarin didn't wear any western brand. On 12 April 1961, a Sturmanskie watch accompanied Yuri Gagarin on the first manned flight into space.
The Navitimer I’m referencing was worn by Scott Carpenter on May 24,1962. Maybe someone else will some up with another first time watch in space besides the two we mentioned.🙂
Even Heuer went to space before Omega. So Omega should get over it already. Nobody shills over their own history like Omega
You need a part 2 to rate all the icons... and a part 3 and 4 and 5...
On a more serious note, I'm curious what you think of the Monaco.
My personal opinion is that I think most watches are over rated. I love the content of the channel. I enjoy the quality and analysis. I follow many channels about specific interest that u personally have no interest in. I guess it’s the generalist in me that wants to know more. And what is a better way to learn than from those who are very deep into a specific subject.
I can see the craftsmanship and appreciate the beauty. But cannot justify buying a watch. I have my phone. Before that I had a casio in the 90s.
But I must say, if all the watches I’ve seen over many videos I still think there’s something special about Patek. I can really see why some are very in love with that brand. Cannot put my finger on exactly what, but even for a person like me that isn’t into watches there’s something about their stuff that speaks to me.
Since SeaQ is mentioned I just want to lodge my protest at the closed caseback on the 39mm (picket sign here)
Ha Ha
Agreed. If the 39mm had a closed case back that would be 🔥🔥🔥
@@rickmccall5649 Well, the rose gold version does. Still interested?
The 39mm now comes with an open caseback on the gold model.
I absolutely love Glashutte Original. The SeaQ Panorama Date is my dream watch. Stunning quality and finishing. I had the opportunity to take a look at one in a Vienna Glashutte shop. Big big love.
I’ve had a Blackbay 41 for 8 years. It’s the least expensive watch in my collection, but it’s the one I wear the most. Simple, legible, versatile!😊
I wanted a Rolex sub since getting into luxury watches 10 years ago. Searched and searched and searched. Visited most AD's in my area (NYC) to no avail. Finally got the call 2 years ago and jumped on it. Now that I own one, I appreciate the quality but the reality is it is a boring watch and does not get much wrist time. It's not as boring as an Explorer, which I also own, but just sits in the safe deposit box unworn. For me, the Omega 300M , which was my first luxury watch, is a much more interesting piece.
This chap really is on point. He is incisive, informed, intelligent and articulate.
Why isn't he mainstream?
The chair is a bit Bond villianesque though.
I was surprised to hear you mention Vaer. I love my Vaer watch and I don’t hear the brand talked about much.
yep, same! they're insane value for what you get, and they have a variety of criminally underrated offerings
The shill is subtile in this one.
@@rosomak8244 why?
For what it’s worth my grandfather actually was an Apollo project NASA engineer, and he has mentioned the Omega Speedmaster to me identically zero times. He has probably informed me of the time keeping prowess of his solar atomic G-SHOCK a hundred times. As for pilot watches, Sinn is about the only brand checking all the main boxes my pilot and engineer. Then on Grand Seiko, my engineer heart very much longs for a Spring Drive. Their restrained aesthetic just pleases me that much more.
The Reverso is one of those watches everyone raves about and nobody owns. I've gone to countless watch meets and get-togethers and still have never seen a Reverso in the wild.
Come to the wild, i'll show you one.
About 35 years ago, one of my bosses at that time was wearing a Reverso. I always liked the watch. The boss not so.........
I respect it but would never own one. I don't like it one bit
I like that Grand Seiko is not trying to compete with the Swiss watch makers. It's like having different flavors of ice cream. If I want something simple yet elegant, I know I can't go wrong with Grand Seiko. If I want sporty and tool like I got Tudor, or Omega. I hope Seiko never loses their Japanese identity just to try to fit in to the masses.
Appreciate the objectivity re. the new TH Aquaracer 👍
Great insights, as always, thanks for the video. For me, the Casio FW91 fits right into this category. Giving in nostalgia over a disposable plastic watch just because it’s under 20€ is the exact opposite of what watch collecting represents to me. No TH-camr is going to change my mind on that
Dear Mark
Talking about Prx and integrated bracelet, pls see the Arsenale of Venezianico .
Somehow, i believe it worths your attention . So unique and slim although with Miyota thin movement.
Many thanks
Nizar
I own two Venezianico's and I like them very much as a "popcorn" watch. Something light and frivolous that's fun to wear in the summer. Definitely recommended as a young, bright brand with an Italian flair
Titanium yachtmaster is crazy overrated, especially the price.
I think it's worth mentioning the horological innovation in Grand Seiko too. I kind of agree with you that zaratzu polishing is overrated, but no-one talks about the dual impulse escapement in the 9SA5. Like Omega's coaxial, a totally different (and probably superior) take on the fundamental design of a mechanical movement. There's the Spring Drive too of course (although personally as a mechanical purist I'm not a fan, but that's just me).
I thought of the Seiko SKX when I saw the title. Has there been a cheaper, more specified (for the time) and more loved watch that you can think of? If it we're bought back with the ISO rating intact and sapphire for a similar price would it sell by the bucket load?
Watch history is overrated, especially the Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch. Tell me (this is actually rhetorical), what does it mean to collect a modern-built wristwatch that has never been to space let alone the moon? It has no actual cachet, just an imaginary story, an homage to something else. In programming we’d call this a symbolic pointer, and you can have a million of them pointing to the same thing. And yet would you not be the first person (again this is rhetorical, I’m not addressing you-you) to point out what a stupid choice it is to get a Chinese knock-off? Yeah you can deceive yourself into believing anything, and you can game the luxury watch market by buying nothing and calling it something, but don’t you get that nagging feeling that you’ve also been fooled?
I’d say that ultimately, branding in general are just stories we tell that convince some of us that product x is absolutely worth amount y. In the fairly rarefied air of luxury watches, we can surmise that they are all decent products, so then it comes down to the story, so yeah, Omega’s going to the Moon or being worn by Bond, Rolex and their ambassadors etc etc. that stuff is either going to work on you, or it won’t. The vast majority of Speedmasters aren’t leaving the atmosphere any more than the vast majority of Submariners aren’t getting any damper than a quick shower…
@mybrainlikesthings Luckily for us, we can totally ignore the whole Moon story, because the watch itself is awesome, if you can afford it.
I haven't been fooled when I'm aware that the thing isn't the original when buying it and I have assessed the quality myself.
This is exactly why I mentioned the Omega Speedmaster Racing. I can get in my car and drive like a maniac. I will never be floating around in space. The Racing connects with me.
This may be shocking considering I thought you were an opera fan, but I agree with all you said. When I wanted my first luxury watch went the usual route, but my wife recommend Longines, and after seeing the Explorer 2 in person got the Spirit Zulu with blue dial. Also at windup in San Fran the snobs loved my "Stowa Flieger", but was an Islander ISL223 with nice blue strap and only wore it to get the 50$ credit towards ISL198!
Back in the early 2000’s I knew nothing about watches. I had just started a new business after being in academia for 15 years. It was becoming apparent that the business would be very successful and I wanted a little bling to celebrate and to flex a little to my stuffy academic friends. Rolex was immediately disqualified because I saw it as the common flex. I chose a Tag Heuer (don’t laugh) because in that time period Tag was seen as a semi flex but for the younger less bankerly crowd. I think currently the Nautilus is in the same category functionally as a Daytona. It’s no longer novel and it’s just an extra expensive common flex. If I were going Patek I’d be drawn to something like the 5172G chronograph over a Nautilus.
That *ecact* Sinn 556 RS is in my collection now. I swear if the bracelet was more comfortable it would be my most worn watch. Ironically, the Hamilton didn't come on a bracelet, so I don't judge it thusly. But the Sinn cost more, so I do.
5:48 I do agree with your opinion although the watches mentioned are substantially more expensive in my opinion, going from 700 to roughly 1000 is an extra Seiko 5 sports
The Icons are those that are still wanted, even if the model's design is decades old (like the Omega Speedmaster) or even over a century old (like the Cartier Santos or the Tank.)
Why do we need Nico’s validation ! Agreed, he is in your ‘industry’, and you are very respectable to your peers and viewers both. 😊
I was just looking at some Baume et Merciers and heard the salesman watching you on his phone haha I recognized that voice from across the room
You can wear a moon watch and fly completly under the radar. Its comfortable on the new bracelet, and looks smart with a shirt. This is my watch to wear when in head office. My daily beater is a Rolex sub, again it flys under the radar by and large, but has a robustness about it. Great with jeans and a Tshirt. I like simple legible dials.
I find Nico entertaining, but his dislike of Grand Seiko has always been baffling to me. I'm a newer enthusiast compared to many, but the Spring Drive appears to me to be the most significant innovation in the industry in recent history (at least on the movement side) and that alone earns Grand Seiko its hype. I completely appreciate your assessment of the limited appeal of the company's restrained, utilitarian aesthetic, however. It does help explain the disconnect for many people. Fantastic video as always!
It must be noted that the original Omega Speedmaster watches were favoured by the astronauts because with a long enough strap they could wear them on the outside of the space suit sleeves , they would keep running in the vacuum of space but most importantly the chunky bezel could be rotated with their unfeeling space suit fingers. Note this was all before the co-axial escapement was adopted
I’m curious, why the callout about co-axial at the end? Something amiss?
Interesting., and refreshing. I actually tried to see one of the featured Tudors last week, being embarrassingly unaware of the hype around it. The sales guy literally had dragged me into the shop. When I showed him a screenshot of the watch i was interested in he turned all Rolex salesperson on me. Need my details, purchase history blah blah. Not interested in playing those games at all. Well Sir it's a luxury watch. Like this oneI replied, sowing him my Omega SMP. Thought I'd have some fun as I'd spotted the blue chrono, " how about that one?" I thought he was going to throw a fit. I walked out and went and bought a Seiko Turtle, I'm quite enjoying it.
I’m sure I’m not the first to comment, but the “141 days since last purchase” is a nice touch that makes me feel more “normal”
GS watches are hit and miss, but when they get it right, they hit the ball right out the park. However, aside from branding and bracelets, I believe the main issues are as follows:
1)The watches look similar. Most of them have a clean 'business' type look with similar case sizes/styles, so you really have to get up close to notice a difference. There are no perpetual calendars or moonphases, and the few chronos they make have serious design problems and don't look nearly as attractive as other brands that specialise in them in that price range. e.g. Omega, Zenith etc.
2)No definitive models/designs. Connected to point 1. Yes the flake dials are nice and so is the Shunbun, but they don't have genuine flagship models that are strong enough in terms of design to entice people to the brand. This is the reason that GS and their fans focus on the technical merits of the watch (e.g. Spring Drive, Zaratsu, etc). It's because there is no 'gestalt' (mentioned above) to their design language, which means their watches are easier to appreciate under magnification than at the usual distance they tend to be viewed.
3)Pricing. GS are moving upmarket quickly, but the value proposition after 7 or 7.5k is unclear. Up until this price point, and especially below, you are getting a lot of watch for your money. After that, the watches have practically identical looking hands, indices, case finishing etc, so what exactly are you paying for?
All 3 points are related in whole or part to the product differentiation problem that currently plagues them.
Yet another very interesting and useful video😀. On the point of Metas though, if you are totally OCD about the EXACT time then IMHO it helps. I have a couple of quartz watches ( a Casio and a Citizen) and love their accuracy! I also have 2 Omega Metas watches (Aqua Terra and 3861 Speed master "moon watch". The Speedmaster in particular only gains about 1s per day. I have a COSC Christopher Ward which is good to +3s per day so I am a happy camper. I know not everyone is as OCD as me but hey ho! Gonna cost me a mint in servicing in the future!!