The solution to room eq is far more complex than this tutorial makes out to seem. For instance, you may be trying to eq a comb filter which is almost pointless. Maybe a good add to this approach is moving the mic to different locations in the room to find the frequencies that are building up, and then cut those. The best way to eq a system is with a transfer function measurement and knowledge of sound wave characteristics. Michael Curtis has a bunch of great videos going in depth on this approach. Thanks for making tech videos that are accessible to a lot of people!
There are always ways to go deeper. We just keep our focus on the simplest ways to improve sound. And this simple process for EQing a room makes a big difference.
I was about to say the same thing, and I see that you have already said it. I have used Michael Curtis' approach and, while it is more complicated, it gives a better result. If you are going to have an effective room EQ, you must be able to separate phase problems from tonal problems. This requires taking samples from different locations in the room and overlaying them with software like open sound meter.
12 months ago I really took on the sound at church. Your videos have taken me from absolute noob to something that I’m very proud to put online for our live feed. Your simple trying like this video have helped so much. Soon I will let you critique our live stream haha.
A highly technical note on this is use two pink noise generators: one for the right, and one for the left. Then EQ each side independently. This is because using one noise generator, like the on built into your mixer sending to both sides, you’ll induce phase cancellation in your measurements, and you’ll never get that even sound across your room. Plus, EQing left and right (and center, if you have one) independently, you can get a wider stereo mix resulting in a cleaner sound 🙂
Does Wing's graphical analyzer appear to be bugged or is there some function that I can disable? The graphic analyzer is not reporting frequency modulation on the channel equalizer page. Anyone else having this problem?
Is there any way to adjust the sub with the highs, for example using a kit from QSC, K12.2 and Ksub, how would I adjust the phase in the cutoff region using the 3-way link (L and R and Sub) with this method from the video? Thank you.
Are you talking about time aligning your subs to your mains? If so, the best way (in my opinion) to do that if you're not familiar and comfortable with Smaart, is to simply play back a track of a kick drum. Over accentuate the high end so you can clearly hear both the mains and your subs. Go and stand in the mid point of the coverage area of your speakers and listen. Does the attack from the kick drum beater head (high frequency content) arrive at the same time as the low frequency punch? If not, delay your subs to match. If the high frequency content is arriving first, then you should move your subs closer. You should very rarely delay your main speakers. There is very little room for delay before it starts to sound unnatural compared to what's happening on stage.
This guy will tell you you re pronouncing Hermes or Yves Saint Laurent wrong while youre talking with your friend. He will make you pour the water into the glass instead of drinking from the bottle. He will tell you one of your tire have 1 psi less than the factory recommended pressure.
Think this is a bit dangerous in terms of calibrated measurement microphone. Doing it the way you described does not let you have the option to use a calibration file with your measurement microphone. From my understanding you will need a microphone that is linear already out of the box.
For flown PA, it's not uncommon to actually have the capsule of the RTA mic actually point at the floor at a 45º angle, almost touching the floor This is to eliminate the mic picking up the floor bounce of the audio which causes bad readings when the bounce combines with the direct sound from the speakers at the mic.
@@cameronproaudio if the goal is to optimize the listening experience, wouldn't you want the mic at ear level to account for that kind of reflection? Or does negating that reflection result in a net positive experience regardless of listening height?
OMNI dosent really mean, OMNI, while the mic may be 360 degrees omni +-6db, those +-6 db off axis matters allot. Example : the mic is omni, but at 90 degrees angle towards the speaker you have -6db on the highs, while taking a measurement, you boost the highs because thats how the mic shows you and everything is harsh as f. Conclusion : mic may be omnidirectional but that means that it's off axis response may be +-6 db compared to on axis response.
You can't EQ a room, you can only EQ a sound system ;-) Well, you can EQ a room - if you take a bulldozer to it. But this method of EQing a system to a room is highly flawed and not used in professional sound system setup anymore. The reason is that basic RTA is "time blind" can cannot tell what is direct speaker sound vs. reflected sound. Using this method invariably leads to making EQ choices to "fix" what cannot be fixed with EQ and can actually make things worse than when you started. Only a dual input FFT based RTA with proper transfer function can show a user what might or might not be able to be fixed with EQ. Programs like SMAART are popular with professional for a reason - you can't use regular RTAs for serious EQ choices.
What you say sounds great in theory, and there is some truth to it. But the reality is, if you follow this video, you will get better sound. I've proved it personally with many different sound systems in many different rooms.
The solution to room eq is far more complex than this tutorial makes out to seem. For instance, you may be trying to eq a comb filter which is almost pointless. Maybe a good add to this approach is moving the mic to different locations in the room to find the frequencies that are building up, and then cut those. The best way to eq a system is with a transfer function measurement and knowledge of sound wave characteristics. Michael Curtis has a bunch of great videos going in depth on this approach.
Thanks for making tech videos that are accessible to a lot of people!
There are always ways to go deeper. We just keep our focus on the simplest ways to improve sound. And this simple process for EQing a room makes a big difference.
I was about to say the same thing, and I see that you have already said it. I have used Michael Curtis' approach and, while it is more complicated, it gives a better result. If you are going to have an effective room EQ, you must be able to separate phase problems from tonal problems. This requires taking samples from different locations in the room and overlaying them with software like open sound meter.
12 months ago I really took on the sound at church. Your videos have taken me from absolute noob to something that I’m very proud to put online for our live feed. Your simple trying like this video have helped so much. Soon I will let you critique our live stream haha.
Awesome!
@collabworship why not use a 32 band eq?
A highly technical note on this is use two pink noise generators: one for the right, and one for the left. Then EQ each side independently.
This is because using one noise generator, like the on built into your mixer sending to both sides, you’ll induce phase cancellation in your measurements, and you’ll never get that even sound across your room.
Plus, EQing left and right (and center, if you have one) independently, you can get a wider stereo mix resulting in a cleaner sound 🙂
Awesome video .... can you do a video with mixstation and behringer xair18 .thanks
Thanks for the info... Can you use the OVL under settings to have graphics on all channel EQ sections?
Does Wing's graphical analyzer appear to be bugged or is there some function that I can disable? The graphic analyzer is not reporting frequency modulation on the channel equalizer page. Anyone else having this problem?
Is there any way to adjust the sub with the highs, for example using a kit from QSC, K12.2 and Ksub, how would I adjust the phase in the cutoff region using the 3-way link (L and R and Sub) with this method from the video? Thank you.
For phase adjustments you will need to use a software like Open Sound Meter or Smaart where you can find the Delay by looking at the Phase lines
Are you talking about time aligning your subs to your mains? If so, the best way (in my opinion) to do that if you're not familiar and comfortable with Smaart, is to simply play back a track of a kick drum. Over accentuate the high end so you can clearly hear both the mains and your subs. Go and stand in the mid point of the coverage area of your speakers and listen. Does the attack from the kick drum beater head (high frequency content) arrive at the same time as the low frequency punch? If not, delay your subs to match. If the high frequency content is arriving first, then you should move your subs closer. You should very rarely delay your main speakers. There is very little room for delay before it starts to sound unnatural compared to what's happening on stage.
Might be a little pedantic of me but you are not EQing the room, you are EQing your speaker system. :)
Lol
Just a little pedantic
This guy will tell you you re pronouncing Hermes or Yves Saint Laurent wrong while youre talking with your friend. He will make you pour the water into the glass instead of drinking from the bottle. He will tell you one of your tire have 1 psi less than the factory recommended pressure.
Which is better. Open sound meter or the mixer only
They'll both accomplish the same thing but just display it a little differently.
I want to join your group for more improvement
Think this is a bit dangerous in terms of calibrated measurement microphone. Doing it the way you described does not let you have the option to use a calibration file with your measurement microphone. From my understanding you will need a microphone that is linear already out of the box.
You can definitely get more technical. But time and time again, this method has produced great results in all different kinds of rooms.
Cool ❤ 😎
You had me at "Eleminate"...haha. Love you guys and what you do, just a little spelling mis-hap.
Got to love typos. And this one will live on forever since TH-cam doesn't allow you to swap out videos.
Ha… haven’t watched the full video yet, but found oscillator spelt wrong too
This might be a dumb question, but if the RTA-M is omnidirectional, shouldn't we point it perpendicular to the speakers?
Not a dumb question, but I am not sure on the result of perpendicular placement. I'll have to test that out next time.
For flown PA, it's not uncommon to actually have the capsule of the RTA mic actually point at the floor at a 45º angle, almost touching the floor This is to eliminate the mic picking up the floor bounce of the audio which causes bad readings when the bounce combines with the direct sound from the speakers at the mic.
@@cameronproaudio if the goal is to optimize the listening experience, wouldn't you want the mic at ear level to account for that kind of reflection? Or does negating that reflection result in a net positive experience regardless of listening height?
OMNI dosent really mean, OMNI, while the mic may be 360 degrees omni +-6db, those +-6 db off axis matters allot. Example : the mic is omni, but at 90 degrees angle towards the speaker you have -6db on the highs, while taking a measurement, you boost the highs because thats how the mic shows you and everything is harsh as f. Conclusion : mic may be omnidirectional but that means that it's off axis response may be +-6 db compared to on axis response.
@@TheDynamiteRO Good stuff! Thanks for the reply! I'm going to play with some pink noise and blips this weekend. :)
I'm interested
WING Mastery: collaborateworship.com/wing-mastery/
Why not a 31-Band EQ?
You can also do that if you want to fine tune even further and have an effects slot to spare.
You can't EQ a room, you can only EQ a sound system ;-) Well, you can EQ a room - if you take a bulldozer to it. But this method of EQing a system to a room is highly flawed and not used in professional sound system setup anymore. The reason is that basic RTA is "time blind" can cannot tell what is direct speaker sound vs. reflected sound. Using this method invariably leads to making EQ choices to "fix" what cannot be fixed with EQ and can actually make things worse than when you started. Only a dual input FFT based RTA with proper transfer function can show a user what might or might not be able to be fixed with EQ. Programs like SMAART are popular with professional for a reason - you can't use regular RTAs for serious EQ choices.
What you say sounds great in theory, and there is some truth to it. But the reality is, if you follow this video, you will get better sound. I've proved it personally with many different sound systems in many different rooms.
You spent oscillator wrong in the video
Bummer. Now it will live on forever.