@@solarflare9078 Doc Louis is still arguably better than any of Mac's opponents and he's been retired and not keeping in fighting shape for YEARS. Imagine how much of a beast this man was back in his prime.
@@demi-femme4821 it'd probably look like punch out but if mac was in the proper weight class just dodges a uppercut and lets loose with a doc louis version of the hondo rush
Weird to think on a list of nearly 100 punches that Glass Joe is in the top 20%. Not used to anything of Joe's being near top of lists in a good way lol
I mentioned it in the description. His punch is kinda weird. It hits really early, like as soon as his hand starts to move away from his body, you get hit, its like 3 or 4 frames before his fist actually gets to your body. I'll do a video sometime on all the weird stuff I saw when going frame by frame.
Am I weird for not taking that long on him, even then, once I beat him it was a no hit run. I noticed pretty quickly that he has an order of punches that pretty short and was easy to remember at the time, so I was able to sweep early and lock him in rage mode for the rest of the fight
Interesting, they're all avoidable on reaction, but you need to have good reflexes. Realistically, 10 frames of reaction time if paying attention is reactable on average (and some people can do better) And yet, you still get hit left and right lol
Average human's reaction time is 300ms if I recall. So the last 2, and arguably anything below .4 is unreactable for the average. Gamers do have a lower average though, so gamers could react to most all of it if they got "quick feet"
A delayed punch after instant punches from the same opponent also plays a factor! The fast punches condition you to dodge fast, then a delayed punch comes and you dodge too early.
@@dinosore_rs I know this felling all too well I recently emulated punch-out and I had to know a delay was coming to not dodge too early especially with TD Macho Man and his left and right spin uppercuts.
Here is a list in order of bosses' fastest attack #1: Doc Louis - 0.25s(jab for star) #2: Mr Sandman - 0.32s(dreamland express) #3-4: Bald Bull - 0.37s(uppercut) #3-4: Soda Popinski - 0.37s(uppercut) #5: Super Macho Man - 0.43s(r. uppercut) #6-7: Donkey Kong - 0.45s(backhand) #6-7: Von Kaiser - 0.45s(r. jab) #8-9: Aran Ryan - 0.5s(lunging r. elbow) #8-9: Glass Joe - 0.5s(jabs) #10: Piston Honda - 0.52s(eyebrow jab) #11-12: Great Tiger - 0.53s(clone uppercut) #11-12: King Hippo - 0.53s(jab) #13: Disco Kid - 0.55s(jabs) #14: Don Flamenco - 0.62s(spinning backhand) #15: Bear Hugger - 0.7s(r. overhead)
To be fair, sandman is doing a roll beforehand, which TECHNIcally increases the startup, but how long it takes for him to throw the punch by itself is quicker
It's important to know that some punches are harder to dodge despite being at the same speed for two reasons, 1: Animation Some attacks are easier to telegraph than others. The movement of the boxer plays a role in player's perception of the attack. 2: Conditioning Some boxers will have faster attacks that condition players to dodge early. This, in turn, will cause the player to get hit by an incoming delayed attack.
For number 2, Bear Hugger says hello. "Catch and Release!" brings back more than a few not-good memories. It's amazing what can be done with a simple staggering of your timing.
Funny detail when DK’s pinch ranked at 19 hits Mac it’s in time with the music a bit Edit: for those that haven’t played punch out and are curious as to how your suppose to dodge some of these attacks your generally given a sound cue or a specific animation to show its coming. Though some don’t and you have to know it’s coming.
It’s funny how when the Minor Circuit “Mac Down” theme starts playing as soon as Popinski and Bull’s uppercuts just sync with it and then Sandman start smashing you
So the average humans reaction time is .2 to .25 seconds... Anyone know how many frames it takes to get dodge invuln in punch out? You could add that value to the average reaction time to get a reasonable idea of how fast most players can dodge punches, and find which attacks are truly unreactable.
Like the reply above said, it's not about reaction speed. Anyone can breeze through the game if they all punched for 22 frames and your dodge has true i-frames. The key factor here is variation. Which hand is being thrown, which timing is it, making sure you're not dodging a taunt you could get a star from, which direction to dodge or block, etc. The difficulty is in the mind-games, the ability to predict and read the opponent's behavior. Kinda like baseball. If every pitch was a fastball, it would get predictable.
star punch would be hard to measure due to how it slows down time. you'd have to measure it in the Vs mode which isn't /truly/ the way Mac boxes normally, but you can get answers I guess?
I like how the human reaction time is a quarter of a second 1/4 or 0.25 So doc literally attack with a exact speed for u to react, but at the same time not have time to react (Unless u are already skilled at the game)
With the Power of a Super Low Frames Per Second, Most Boxers are Super Slow in My Gameplay(including mr sandman), but TD Versions of Soda Popinski and Super Bogus Man are the only Ones with Super Fast Speed that Not Even the Low Frames can Help TD Soda Popinski’s Speed will Increase after getting Knocked Down, Eventually His Speed will just be Insanely Fast that You Can’t Dodge It/Dodged in Wrong Direction TD Super Bogus Man is Still Normally an Easy World Circuit Boxer, But His 3rd Super Clothesline is Very Hard to Dodge Because Your Duck will Enter a Short Yet Deadly Cooldown (btw an unwanted effect of super low fps is all sounds will be extremely corrupted, yet piston hondo is not a problem because of the slowed speed)
Yeah I was thinking DK should be on of the fastest on here. I could not get his rhythm down and there was sometimes little tell to his moves. I don’t know how I beat him.
Coming from playing a lot of fighting games it's strange to see times like 0.5 seconds (the equivalent of frame 30) being referred to as not complete ass
Hm, even when it would be much work most likley: You have now the damage of each attack and its speed. So you could do a list of Damage per second for the moves, what boxer uses effectivly its wind up time for damage. I know there will be outlier like the 1-hit KOs but eh. ^^
Doc Louis himself has the fastest punch?
That shows how great of a Overweight boxing champion he was back then.
He's always holding back for Little Mac. He also has the strongest attack in the game as well.
@@solarflare9078 Doc Louis is still arguably better than any of Mac's opponents and he's been retired and not keeping in fighting shape for YEARS.
Imagine how much of a beast this man was back in his prime.
So he punches really fast to get those stars and lets loose. A true boxer indeed.
@@solarflare9078 he invented the star punch
@@demi-femme4821 it'd probably look like punch out but if mac was in the proper weight class
just dodges a uppercut and lets loose with a doc louis version of the hondo rush
the fact that mr. sandman's slowest attack is still less than a second long
No Little Macs were harmed during the making of this film
Weird to think on a list of nearly 100 punches that Glass Joe is in the top 20%. Not used to anything of Joe's being near top of lists in a good way lol
I mentioned it in the description. His punch is kinda weird. It hits really early, like as soon as his hand starts to move away from his body, you get hit, its like 3 or 4 frames before his fist actually gets to your body. I'll do a video sometime on all the weird stuff I saw when going frame by frame.
Glass Joe is one of the hardest revenge matches.
Joe's punches are fast. It's his aggression that isn't.
@@TheFinalChaptersif you don't know how to hold up that is
@@philive1681I always thought that was oddly fast
Doc Louis has some of the fastest punches in the game [and the fastest] despite being way out of shape and practice.
Now imagine him in his prime.
he was prob like mr sandman back then
@@pizzapizza759except td sandman was his contender
4:26
Soda and bald bull are dancing to the music in sync
Big bros dancin
and mr sandman too
y'know, this really shows how well the game's balanced
only one attack that deals barely any damage goes past the average person's reaction time
To be fair, it's also one that can also lead to your KO
And dreamland express is a chain so it also doesn’t really go past your reaction speed
If you included TD Soda Popinski's stage 3 punches, they'd probably top the list.
I knew I wasn't crazy saying he is the hardest opponent in the game.
If it wasn’t for the “pssk” (right) and “pskkeh” (left) sound whenever he attacks, pretty sure he would be harder than Sandman
I really wanted to see these included
Am I weird for not taking that long on him, even then, once I beat him it was a no hit run.
I noticed pretty quickly that he has an order of punches that pretty short and was easy to remember at the time, so I was able to sweep early and lock him in rage mode for the rest of the fight
@@fragranced9258 easy to look up and execute, but big cap for figuring it out. That shit takes everyone an entire day usually
Despite being in the lower division, pretty interesting that Von Kaiser’s Jab is that fast.
Yep, in TD his "Bombs" jab is pretty fast.
I like it though. I've always liked him as a character. It's good to see him get some nice abilities in title defense.
Yeah, but since you can block it you don't have to react to it as long as you preemptively hold down the block button.
glass joe’s punch: 0.50 seconds.
Everyone ever: impossible
They sure feel a lot faster than that. Except for TD Bald Bull’s delayed rolling punch. That feels like an eternity.
Ironically, Soda's slowest punch is the one I have the most trouble dodging.
Interesting, they're all avoidable on reaction, but you need to have good reflexes. Realistically, 10 frames of reaction time if paying attention is reactable on average (and some people can do better)
And yet, you still get hit left and right lol
Average human's reaction time is 300ms if I recall.
So the last 2, and arguably anything below .4 is unreactable for the average.
Gamers do have a lower average though, so gamers could react to most all of it if they got "quick feet"
A delayed punch after instant punches from the same opponent also plays a factor!
The fast punches condition you to dodge fast, then a delayed punch comes and you dodge too early.
@@dinosore_rs I know this felling all too well I recently emulated punch-out and I had to know a delay was coming to not dodge too early especially with TD Macho Man and his left and right spin uppercuts.
add input delay and you have ~15 frames, which means that doc louis's star punch is literally unreactable
also i know this is a joke dont woosh me
You also need to remember that the first few frames you cannot dodge with
4:25 the music picks up as bald bull and soda start uppercutting in unison
The most powerful duo
Good stuff, your editing on these videos are great. It's so cool to see all of this side by side in a simple way.
Thank you. I just started editing a few months ago. It's fun to keep learning stuff. I'll keep getting better.
@@philive1681 Glad that you're striving for improvement, that's great to see in a content creator.
Here is a list in order of bosses' fastest attack
#1: Doc Louis - 0.25s(jab for star)
#2: Mr Sandman - 0.32s(dreamland express)
#3-4: Bald Bull - 0.37s(uppercut)
#3-4: Soda Popinski - 0.37s(uppercut)
#5: Super Macho Man - 0.43s(r. uppercut)
#6-7: Donkey Kong - 0.45s(backhand)
#6-7: Von Kaiser - 0.45s(r. jab)
#8-9: Aran Ryan - 0.5s(lunging r. elbow)
#8-9: Glass Joe - 0.5s(jabs)
#10: Piston Honda - 0.52s(eyebrow jab)
#11-12: Great Tiger - 0.53s(clone uppercut)
#11-12: King Hippo - 0.53s(jab)
#13: Disco Kid - 0.55s(jabs)
#14: Don Flamenco - 0.62s(spinning backhand)
#15: Bear Hugger - 0.7s(r. overhead)
3:10 Bruh. GJ and Sandman punching at the same speed?
Goes to show how shocking Glass Joe TD is immediately after Contender Sandman.
This is how he beat nick
To be fair, sandman is doing a roll beforehand, which TECHNIcally increases the startup, but how long it takes for him to throw the punch by itself is quicker
2:10 wow the Spin Punch is alot slower than I thought
Well he's gotta make it look good first. Flex for the fans, or himself.
It was faster in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out but could be dodged in any direction. This one can only be ducked under.
It's important to know that some punches are harder to dodge despite being at the same speed for two reasons,
1: Animation
Some attacks are easier to telegraph than others. The movement of the boxer plays a role in player's perception of the attack.
2: Conditioning
Some boxers will have faster attacks that condition players to dodge early. This, in turn, will cause the player to get hit by an incoming delayed attack.
For number 2, Bear Hugger says hello.
"Catch and Release!" brings back more than a few not-good memories. It's amazing what can be done with a simple staggering of your timing.
Telegraphing is not reading the move It's telling your opponent what you're gonna do
I knew that star jab from Doc Louis would be at the top, it keeps me from sleeping at night to this very day...
Funny detail when DK’s pinch ranked at 19 hits Mac it’s in time with the music a bit
Edit: for those that haven’t played punch out and are curious as to how your suppose to dodge some of these attacks your generally given a sound cue or a specific animation to show its coming. Though some don’t and you have to know it’s coming.
Red Soda is really tough. Around a 3rd of a second? Yeah that sounds about right. I've gotta fight Doc one of these days.
Lol, more like one tenth of a second.
if super drunk popinski was included i quite certain he would top the list
1:33 perfect timing.
2:56 3:05
Just some of my favorite side by side comparisons
“I’m finally a fully rounded fighter Mac!”
The average person has about a 1/4 second reaction time.
Doc is cheating.
I know reaction time decays overtime because I was able to react to the fastest of these ones just fine and now I get wrecked by King Hippo TD easily.
It’s funny how when the Minor Circuit “Mac Down” theme starts playing as soon as Popinski and Bull’s uppercuts just sync with it and then Sandman start smashing you
4:47
The delay on the bull charge has several variations
Soda’s Sidestep hooks give me ptsd
So the average humans reaction time is .2 to .25 seconds... Anyone know how many frames it takes to get dodge invuln in punch out? You could add that value to the average reaction time to get a reasonable idea of how fast most players can dodge punches, and find which attacks are truly unreactable.
None of them are. Cause if there was it’d be unfair and punch out don’t roll that way
Like the reply above said, it's not about reaction speed. Anyone can breeze through the game if they all punched for 22 frames and your dodge has true i-frames.
The key factor here is variation. Which hand is being thrown, which timing is it, making sure you're not dodging a taunt you could get a star from, which direction to dodge or block, etc.
The difficulty is in the mind-games, the ability to predict and read the opponent's behavior.
Kinda like baseball. If every pitch was a fastball, it would get predictable.
real nice how soda popinski doesn't appear until 3:34
i like how the punches sync up with the beat towards the end
Man he wasn’t kidding when he said “Duck this one” because those are literal bullets he’s punching out.
These would be great gifs to punch friends on discord with
Alt Title: +4.5 Minutes of Mac Slowly Heading Towards an Early Grave.
What about Mac? He'd top the list for sure, but I'm curious as to where the Star Punch would fall.
star punch would be hard to measure due to how it slows down time.
you'd have to measure it in the Vs mode which isn't /truly/ the way Mac boxes normally, but you can get answers I guess?
4:08 The attack durations match with the music
I like how the human reaction time is a quarter of a second 1/4 or 0.25
So doc literally attack with a exact speed for u to react, but at the same time not have time to react
(Unless u are already skilled at the game)
The more it goes on the more on beat they are
@philive1681 the Sandman's "left jab" Is actually left delayed hook
4:11 ok no way Macho Man's uppercuts are that fast.
With the Power of a Super Low Frames Per Second, Most Boxers are Super Slow in My Gameplay(including mr sandman), but TD Versions of Soda Popinski and Super Bogus Man are the only Ones with Super Fast Speed that Not Even the Low Frames can Help
TD Soda Popinski’s Speed will Increase after getting Knocked Down, Eventually His Speed will just be Insanely Fast that You Can’t Dodge It/Dodged in Wrong Direction
TD Super Bogus Man is Still Normally an Easy World Circuit Boxer, But His 3rd Super Clothesline is Very Hard to Dodge Because Your Duck will Enter a Short Yet Deadly Cooldown
(btw an unwanted effect of super low fps is all sounds will be extremely corrupted, yet piston hondo is not a problem because of the slowed speed)
This is such a cool cut! Great job!!
By the number 10s they're hitting mac to the beat of the music
Lol
Watching this in 2x speed was crazy
Wink Uppercut went to the beat of the song
soda hook feels like it hits frame 0
Who punched perfectly beat song?
Little Mac Should be tier god
Von kaiser has the 10th fastest punch? Jeez... Only world circuit fighters have faster punches!
How fast are mac's punches
Can you do the same, but with Super KO Boxing 2?
Yeah I was thinking DK should be on of the fastest on here. I could not get his rhythm down and there was sometimes little tell to his moves. I don’t know how I beat him.
The coach is faster 85 of most moves in this game wow (yes i know his name is doc louis)
Little mac has benn through alot....
Who trained the rivals? I like to think the majority of them trained themselves to punch fast and hard.
How did you know how long are the animations? Did you look into the files?
I think he just timed them
dreamland express is hard to react to, more at 11
Can you show all the stars? Like you did in MTPO?
Coming from playing a lot of fighting games it's strange to see times like 0.5 seconds (the equivalent of frame 30) being referred to as not complete ass
They made it so players can dodge all attacks while in fighting games, getting hit seems to be inevitable.
4:03 this syncs with the beat so well
Hm, even when it would be much work most likley: You have now the damage of each attack and its speed. So you could do a list of Damage per second for the moves, what boxer uses effectivly its wind up time for damage. I know there will be outlier like the 1-hit KOs but eh. ^^
Some characters like to sit pretty for a while in between punches, so it would have to be for specific sections of behavior where they be more active.